From #81, thoughts in real time.
ICEninja wrote:neko wrote:
I highly suspect ICEninja of causing the storm that has shut everything down. If my power goes out, I'm coming after you. (I shouldn't have to, but I better specify that this is a joke). Congrats on getting a job--that's not easy to do right now.
I've been so excited the past few days, I wouldn't be surprised if my leaping for joy has caused some kind of meteorological disturbance. And thank you, I gave the interview of a lifetime to get it.
Alright, I wasn't feeling too harshly about Mongoose simply based on 64, but after he got a lot of people suspecting him, he then goes and takes his vote off Q21 without comment, save that he had no reason to be voting him at all, and then put his vote on Weapons right after, as an "oops I forgot". That clearly states to me that his main purpose of posting was to unvote, and that voting was a secondary purpose. Having voting as a secondary purpose reads to me as doing so for appearance purposes and not because of genuine suspicion.
This is compounded by how he had literally
nothing
to add to the case against Weapons. This is really bad.
But you don't seem to think putting mongoose and me on the same scum team logistically makes sense, do you?
mb53 wrote:I simply don't know what toungue-in-cheek means =P
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=tongue+in+cheek
neko2086 wrote:WMC, yes I did repeat myself somewhat, but it's because nobody seems to have picked up on what I said the first time. It's important because what people are perceiving as uberscummy on your part seems to me to be possibly just a poorly conceived idea, which is not necessarily scummy. So yes, I am on the fence about you. I'm sorry I don't have black and white reads on page 4.
Now, what exactly in my post is fluff, and what is stating the obvious? Are you happy with 9000's vote, for instance? I mean, you just quote my entire post and then make broad generalizations about it with no examples, then say you could jump on a wagon of me.
neko2086 wrote:WMC, yes I did repeat myself somewhat, but it's because nobody seems to have picked up on what I said the first time. It's important because what people are perceiving as uberscummy on your part seems to me to be possibly just a poorly conceived idea, which is not necessarily scummy. So yes, I am on the fence about you. I'm sorry I don't have black and white reads on page 4.
Now, what exactly in my post is fluff, and what is stating the obvious? Are you happy with 9000's vote, for instance? I mean, you just quote my entire post and then make broad generalizations about it with no examples, then say you could jump on a wagon of me.
neko2086 wrote:1.
I highly suspect ICEninja of causing the storm that has shut everything down. If my power goes out, I'm coming after you. (I shouldn't have to, but I better specify that this is a joke). Congrats on getting a job--that's not easy to do right now.
2.
Seriously now, WMC is gathering quite a few votes rather quickly. I don't like this last post by over9000 so much. I mean, I know the ideas behind a WMC wagon have already been beaten to death, but I just generally dislike a ditto vote that contributes nothing. There's no question to WMC, and there's no attempt to explore any other avenues. WMC is certainly not the only potential scum suspect right now, and there's plenty of daylight left, so this just looks like coasting.
On the topic, I really do think, as bizarre as it is, that WMC was trying to lay some sort of trap. What else could his "you missed the point" post mean? (not a rhetorical question--this is really bothering me). I can't tell whether this is a scummy move or a poorly conceived, town-motivated one. I'm just as interested as Implosion to see an instance of this being at all effective.
Mongoose's 64 is rather terrible, and I agree with Implosion's assessment. What is really interesting about Mongoose's post is that he was rattled enough by this distancing accusation that he bothered to make a second joke vote to rectify the situation (which really shouldn't be perceived as a "situation" in the first place). Nervous scum?
1. Fluff
2. Stating the obvious
I could go on if you'd like. Your wishy-washyness stems not from staying neutral, but for stretching posting for both sides when you could just say you're neutral.
over9000's vote was what other people said it was. Why exactly is the trap a bad idea from a scumhunting perspective?
neil's first post back leans scum reaction, but not too much considering my current suspicions. neil's second post is about the same. #93 neil's third is better, though I feel biased.
Nameless reads town. Also feeling implosion town, though less so if mongoose/mb53 flip town.
Nameless wrote:WeaponsofMassConstruction - There is far, far too much noise over a stupid opening trap. I'm inclined to think he's town, but the significance is being exaggerated either way. If his wagon goes any further without better justification I'll be calling scum shenanigans and anaylysing further.
How would you respond to the logic for ICE as scum off this trap?
#96 tentatively putting q21 down as town.
mongoose wrote:^ there was need to claim yet, it really didn't help anything. I dont like Neil's posting since its pretty much saying "don't mind me I'll show up later on with something useful". unfortunately, q21 summed up what i thought perfectly so no real content here.
@ice: unvoting was the main purpose of the post. We are out of RVS so there was no point in keeping the vote. I the changed it to the person who I felt was scummiest. I don't see how voting being an afterthought is scummy. Also, as for content, I would like to point out there is limited amounts of posts right now, so finding things that people haven't said is rather difficult.
I dont like how neil likes how many people jumped on him though, however it sounds like something I would say so I will let it be.
Some obvious posting/restating/justifying nontent. +more scum points.
#99, wall by silavor
So you decide to equate your post with mine and decide to ignore:
-context difference
-tone difference
-that immediate given reaction should tell you something
-the logic behind hoppers being scum (also though I haven't posted it yet, I did not base my read solely on the fact that ICE decided to cast suspicion on it but also
how
he went about it; it's like how bandwagoning itself on town player X does not make one scum, but the way they do it)
Yeah, no, +scum points.
DarthYoshi looks town at the moment. Also do not get what is so bad about posting a top to bottom scum list.
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Pfft, I read through the whole thing without looking at the last page and my biggest suspect was Neil
Thats just kinda lame.
Not feeling that town would say this.
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:That was me not reading the thread correctly. Whoops.
...
How exactly did you misread the thread to come up with that?
Skimmed over that post.
KTS targeting over9000 earns him town points.
Zdenek looks fairly town.
By #110, implosion is doing some of the same stuff mongoose was, and is in turn targeting neil, so now I have 3 people I currently suspect who are not compatible. Moving on...
Liking mb53 better in #112, less for the content, more for the sharper tone.
#114 reminds me why I liked implosion in the first place, mongoose getting the very specific type of vote wrong.
over9000 interactions with ICE and KTS are +town, though my reads are bound to switch.
q21 wrote:silavor wrote:-snip-
Hey, 2-for-one deal! I got the entire scumteam- oh, wait, but then how is ICE scum, as well?
Obviously
we have three scum in this game! Or, more likely, we have a bunch of townies nitpicking each other's comments to bits because we're only part way through page 2, and the game's been going for less than 24 hours at this point.
-snip-
This same argument can just as easily be made towards Nameless, since he also managed to get someone to hop on my wagon, Zdenek. The point is, though, unless we have three scum in the game and they would all out themselves so easily, how can we take the case against one of them as "obvscum trying to create a false case", while dropping the others as just being "town pointing out an anomaly"?
-snip-
Scumslip time. Three scum would be the norm for this game. The fact that you suggest, twice in one post no less, that it is more likely that there are only 2 suggests that you know something more than the average townie should.
Unvote, Vote Nameless
Everyone vote Nameless.
Very true and feel dumb for missing this. silavor moves up to near the top of the scumlist, and if this slip holds, we may be dealing with 8 vs 2 vs 2, which makes more sense with my other reads.
_over9000 wrote:I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
Reasons, etc
#132, KTS is tunneling.
Nameless and DarthYoshi are still looking town.
ICEninja wrote:Alright it is the weekend and I'm going to bring back the contribution.
Firstly, here is the newbie game that neil was scum in.
Newbie 1036
He lurked a lot and was "busy" all the time. He was finally hammered after repeatedly not contributing to the game, and we landed a lurker scum. While he never replaced out, I'm seeing a lot of similarity in his play this game before replacing. I'll judge King by his own contribution, but he's going to be starting from a negative position because of this.
I think out of all the players we have right now, Zdenek is the lurkiest. He drops in every now and then, but doesn't seem to have any strong opinions. His current vote is very outdated and very weak, really, and I haven't seen him give any further reason to be voting Silavor or anyone else right now. Zdenek, who do you find scummy and why?
I don't like, at all, that neil claimed. He wasn't under any pressure to do so, and it seemed to be a bit panicked. If he doesn't like playing a VT, then he probably shouldn't be playing this game because that is the role you're going to get 2/3s of the games you play.
Silavor wrote:
I was under the assumption there was two because I'm used to games with two scum in them, but I can see how having 13 players could warrant there being three scum. It's not a scumslip, just a sign of being inexperienced, and an oversight for not paying attention to how many players there were.
Have you ever played in a mini here before, or is your only mafiascum experience with newbie games?
Nameless wrote:
In my experience, setting yourself up to jump on a wagon for a reason that hasn't occurred yet = scum.
I'll agree with this. While I don't feel like Yoshi is being unreasonable, scum Yoshi could really be giving himself options at this point.
over9000 wrote:
The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.
This is terrible. This right here screams to me "I know I'm scummy but don't vote for me anyway".
Neither Mongoose nor Weapons have done much to dissuade my suspicion of them.
This post reads less as trying to find scum and more as trying to make people look scummy. Also, the last line is inconsistent with previous non-statements/shifting of focus.
Can accept KTS's explanation for neil, but not writing it off completely.
Agree with implosion's #152, moving down in scumminess.
Reads are matching up decently with q21's #154. I'm currently looking at silavor/ICE/mongoose/mb53. Again in #156
Okay #158 is actually legitimate.
ICEninja wrote:q21, my meta demonstration (not on replacing out but on being disinterested in a game and using RL excuses) are more conclusive, but still on the null side of making him scummy. We definitely don't really have much against neil, but should his replacement do anything scummy, he will have done so from a bad position already. That is my view on things.
Zdenek, so you really think silavor's first vote was that scummy? I see your logic there, and sure it is a point, but it just seems so small to me. I'm much more interested in silavor supposedly knowing how many scum are in this game. HOWEVER, I believe it
only
weighs anything if we have a double scum team game going on, and he therefore only has 1 partner. If this is a standard mini, there will be 3 scum, and the point will be absolutely moot. The fact that he's previously only played newbie games (which are semi-open setups with 2 scum every time) I don't really buy being able to lynch silavor based on the information we had. In fact, if there is only 1 scum family, I'm inclined to believe silavor is town because of this. I wouldn't put him as experienced enough to come up with a fake slip indicating that he knows how many scum there are.
Again, if new information leads us to understand that there are 2 scum teams with a pair of scum each, then yes that was a huge scum slip, and I feel like it would be absolutely vote-worthy.
I don't like implosion's views right now at all. He's basically calling people out for voting the scummiest players. What do you want us to do? Pressure players who we don't believe are scummy? Of course I'm going to vote for the "easiest" player to wagon, because it means he's the scummiest. I felt like Weapon's original wagon built in the first couple pages was suspect, considering how many people jumped on that and with so little to add, but I don't see a single vote for over9000 right now that isn't completely justified.
This is
especially
bad, because implosion himself has declared over9000 to be scummy (in his list, over9000 is the very bottom). A scum flip on over9000 is going to really make me look over all these points deeply, because I can easily see scum trying to distance themselves from their partners, calling them scummy, and simultaneously trying to discredit the wagon against scum.
Second paragraph makes sense, though I don't know why silavor did not bring this up first and how ICE is defending silavor while barely defending anyone else, IIRC, and so I like an ICE/silavor team.
Forgot about neko, in retrospect moving to the town side of the spectrum.
#167 (Nameless on implosion with contradictions) I might agree with if it didn't go and mess up my current reads. Some flips will sort incompatibles out, though.
#170 (implosion's defense) and I get reminded of context/points/whatnot. This is +town more than before #167.
My reactions are consistent with KTS's. I can understand where he came from there.
#177 (Nameless's rebuttal) not doing the same for me as #167.
#178
ICEninja wrote:I feel like implosion is quickly becoming the scummiest player right now. However, if he has a very specific mindset (that I won't state right now), then I feel like his defense is adequate. My position on him and whether or not I will be voting him depends largely on how he answers this question:
If you believe that there is scum on over9000's wagon regardless of his alignment, why do you believe the situation is more likely to be he is town with scum on his wagon than scum with scum on his wagon?
I also do not like King's vote and quick unvote at all.
More non-committal clouds of suspicion.
Impressed by mb53 in #179, though I'm low on time here and am skimming.
I skipped to the end here as most of the rest is continued debate over people I'm not finding scummy anymore at first glance and I need to go.
