Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.


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Post Post #106 (isolation #0) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:57 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Pfft, I read through the whole thing without looking at the last page and my biggest suspect was Neil

Thats just kinda lame.

But anyway:
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
Zdenek wrote:I'm a bit surprised that Implosion's vote on mongoose for distancing wasn't a joke.

I am not buying WOMC's "trap" argument, and I think
WOMC wrote: I would also call silavor scum, but his last point was quite good about implosion/mb53.
is ridiculous, since all silavor did was explain why implosion accused mongoose of distancing.
That was me not reading the thread correctly. Whoops.
...
How exactly did you misread the thread to come up with that?

Oh, Zdenek called you out on this...and you havn't responded.
q21 wrote:...
I don't like the posting of entire lists of reads that has been going on for a bit. Don't like it to the extent that I'm leaning toward suspicion of those who participated, possible scum trying to start a trend they can use to gauge the towns feeling on the game. Minor FoS for Implosion and mb.
...
Only two people did that, and both said that they were only fine with it because it was so early in the game and recommeded not doing it afterwards.
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Post Post #107 (isolation #1) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:59 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

silavor wrote:
mongoose wrote:What is IGMEOY?
I got my eye on you
Nexus wrote:
neil1113 has requested/is being replaced.

I will get to finding one now.
Hmm. Anyone know why neil replaced out? He complained the last time I was in a game with him about how much he hates being vanilla town, and I can't imagine him flaking on a scum role unless something serious came up.
He already claimed vanilla townie for me. :?
How annoying, especially since I am really the vig/bomb/cop/bulletproof combination role, obviously. /joking
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Post Post #108 (isolation #2) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:02 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Bluh.
Forgot to point out my suspicions of mr. fingerprint avatar for his actions this game. (_over9000)
Namely, he hasn't done any.
VOTE:_over9000
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Post Post #118 (isolation #3) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:50 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

ICEninja wrote:more comments on recent posts when I have time. I'm really suspicious of neil as well, because of the parallel between his disinterest in this game and his disinterest in our game together when he was scum.
Neil does not exist. He is a figment of your imagination.
I am Neil. Neil is me. We are one.

Seriously I don't know what Neils problem was, (he was super wierd looking in his posts) but he is not here anymore. I am.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #4) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:04 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

_over9000 wrote:I am incredibly sorry to those who are upset at my lack of activity, I've been really busy these past couple of days and I haven't had time to comment on anything. However, the truth is that the things I said I agreed with were pretty much all I had to say at the time. I promise that I will have much more content tomorrow.
You had four posts in this game (now five) and you said, in order:
1. /confirm
2. RVS
3. Oh woops we are outa RVS
4. That RVS is now real because...something I didn't explain.

You didn't agree with anything except that WeaponsOfMassConstruction should be lynched, and you did it in the most general way possible.
silavor wrote:...
Nexus wrote:
neil1113 has requested/is being replaced.

I will get to finding one now.
Hmm. Anyone know why neil replaced out? He complained the last time I was in a game with him about how much he hates being vanilla town, and I can't imagine him flaking on a scum role unless something serious came up.
ICEninja wrote:more comments on recent posts when I have time. I'm really suspicious of neil as well, because of the parallel between his disinterest in this game and his disinterest in our game together when he was scum.
One of you here is wrong. I'm guessing its the ICEninja 'cause I'm town.
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Post Post #122 (isolation #5) » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:14 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nameless wrote:...
(SSS: a little)
SSS? :neutral:
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Post Post #132 (isolation #6) » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:33 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

_over9000 wrote:I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
...
The fact is that this is pretty much all I have to add, though I'm sure that won't be enough for some people.
1. I am unsure if your "still" from "still believe" is true are not because you didn't mention why you were voting for him earlier.
2. The second point you made was already mentioned by the poster directly above you. Not noticing who you are making a case against and the person you are
telling everyone to vote for
arn't the same guys is pretty bad, but it reads to me like you are just parroting people instead of actually providing content.
3. No, no it is not enough to add. Since you only added a reason for your vote (should have been provided in the first place), a comment on something that happened a bit more than half the game before your post (post 64-129), and something that was mentioned in the post above you, I would say you have barely provided any content at all.
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Post Post #141 (isolation #7) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:17 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:...
I do not believe that "being difficult" is a scum tell, and even refusing to explain yourself isn't one.
...
Wait, since when has purpousfully not answering questions been a null tell? That seem like a scum tell to me.


Also I feel like I should post something about this, since people are still talking about Neil's abandonment possibly being because of his role...
I received a PM from him a little bit ago that explained he was totally messing up because of Real Life Issues. :( Very
personal
Real Life Issues that I shall not be repeating.

But yeah, I don't think whatever meta he has about roles is actually relevant, and I'm pretty sure he would have done some similiar stuff if he was scum as he did here. Unless somebody here is really good at telling motivations from just flat out bad play I don't think his posts will be very helpful to anyone.

So, yeah.
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Post Post #142 (isolation #8) » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:39 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Man, re-reading that last post makes it sound like a lame escuse.

Basically Neil PMed me to appoligize for "ruining my game" and to explain why he left. I guess I just wanted to say that Neil had good reason to play badly, and not to speak badly of him becayse when he overcomes his grief and inevitably re-reads this game I don't want his wounds to be reopened from it.

:(
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Post Post #159 (isolation #9) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:34 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

q21 wrote:...
silavor wrote:
neil1113 wrote: I'm Vanilla Town. Which is why, to be honest, this was quite an undesirable game for me to replace into. I'm not used to not having a night action.
Newbie 1035
Of course, it turns out he was scum in the end, but he was speaking to DDD about meta things, so I'm assuming he was trying to cash in on a meta he had built. I never actually bothered investigating his past games, though, as I was already dead by that point in the game, so it's entirely possible he was just trying to screw with us back then.
This is a situation in which he replaced into a game not one where he replaced out, so you're right you weren't providing evidence that he was scum based on the fact that he replaced out. However, even in this new light I find this post scummy: even if replacement meta was ever useful this is a different situation so this meta has no value at all. It therefore occurs to me that you're a moron (and I tend to assume that people who choose to play mafia aren't morons) or that you're trying to look like your providing information and thereby helping the town when really you are doing nothing of the sort.
Um, I'm pretty sure that link is to a game where he, as silavor says right there, was "trying to cash in on a meta he had built." If the meta does in fact exist, this is perfectly relevant.

Also, he was already talking about this before this post from memory so just dropping it would have been a MUCH more scummy than it turning out to not have been as good an example as he remembers.
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Post Post #165 (isolation #10) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:Despite King being on the wagon, ...
...
...Why is that a "despite"? Do you already think me scummy enough to actively attempt to avoid voting for who I vote for?
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Post Post #169 (isolation #11) » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:30 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

@nameless: Wow, nice one. Theres like 3 different contradictions there.
VOTE: implosion
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Post Post #171 (isolation #12) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:32 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Well, considering implosion gave a pretty good defense and the main reason he would be doing all the bad stuff said about him (which is apparently just misrepping <_<) would have been because _over9000 is scum, I'm going back to over9000 now.
UNVOTE: implosion
VOTE: _over9000
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Post Post #180 (isolation #13) » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:00 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

ICEninja wrote:...
I also do not like King's vote and quick unvote at all.
I changed my votes like that because it looked like nameless had a pretty good case on implosion being scum, but then implosion gave a pretty good defense post and I
realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum.
Also, I'm not gonna stay on implosion, who is actually defending himself, when _over9000 still apparently requires more pressure to do so. (Hintedy hint hint, Mr. over.)

(Also also, I'm pretty sure that what I did was called vote-hopping, not un-voting.)
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Post Post #184 (isolation #14) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:
King wrote:I realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum.
How so? He's going to defend himself regardless of whether he's town or scum. Or what posts are you referring to?
I meant the original posts that started the argument.
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Post Post #189 (isolation #15) » Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:17 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:...
Finally, the game feels like it has slowed down—do we have players in need of prods? I feel like we were promised content from WoMC as well as _over9000, neither have delivered. I know Mongoose is sick, but AFAIK, neither of these players have offered reasons for being absent.
Over hasn't posted squat since four days ago, so yes, we do have at least one player in need of prodding.
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Post Post #192 (isolation #16) » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:50 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:
1216 wrote: I changed my votes like that because it looked like nameless had a pretty good case on implosion being scum, but then implosion gave a pretty good defense post and I realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum. Also, I'm not gonna stay on implosion, who is actually defending himself, when _over9000 still apparently requires more pressure to do so. (Hintedy hint hint, Mr. over.)
First you say that the case looked good, which implies that you read it and understood it, so you think Implosion is scum. Then you move your vote because he defends himself, and because Implosion is only scum if 9000 is scum. This seems to me like a bad excuse to move your vote and like lining up lynches. Also, when you say that for Implosion to be scummy 9000 must be scum, are you just referring to the fact that Implosion on longer wants to push the 9000 wagon?
...
1. I did in fact read the case, yes. :igmeou: The specific defense that implosion gave I believe was, "Your quotes are out of context. Also, misrep." At the time of me voting I had not, in fact, looked back at where the quotes were. (actually I still havn't, I should go do that soon.)
2. "and like lining up lynches"? What?
3. I mean what I said, the only scum motivation (other than pretty bad play) that I can think of for him saying what he has about the people voting for _over9000 would be if over is also scum. If over was town he could have just waited till tommorow to say stuff about people on his wagon being scum and not risked himself at all.
4. What scum reasoning
would
implosion have for doing what he has did if over is town? 'Cause I can't think of any.
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Post Post #199 (isolation #17) » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:40 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nameless wrote:...
You're not thinking very hard. Implosion could pretty obviously be setting up the town's next (mis)lynch as somebody early onto _over9000's wagon,
regardless
of _over9000's alignment.
But why would he be doing that
now
if over is town when he could do it tommorow and not call attention to himself?
neko2086 wrote:
King wrote:the only scum motivation (other than pretty bad play) that I can think of for him saying what he has about the people voting for _over9000 would be if over is also scum. If over was town he could have just waited till tommorow to say stuff about people on his wagon being scum and not risked himself at all.
This is what I was getting after. So you're saying it would only be beneficial for scum to attack a popular town-wagon
after
the fact? I really don't see why, if implosion is scum and over is town, he would need to wait until tomorrow to attack the wagon if it were the prevailing one. Scum could just as easily attack a popular wagon to make themselves look like they're thinking outside the box and to paint the others as opportunistic.
...
Ok, now that is a reason. I could see someone doing that as scum.
(This spoiler contains me saying stuff about the wall-o-text, and has been spoilered for bigness.)
Spoiler:
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
neko2086 wrote:
1.
I highly suspect ICEninja of causing the storm that has shut everything down. If my power goes out, I'm coming after you. (I shouldn't have to, but I better specify that this is a joke). Congrats on getting a job--that's not easy to do right now.

2.
Seriously now, WMC is gathering quite a few votes rather quickly. I don't like this last post by over9000 so much. I mean, I know the ideas behind a WMC wagon have already been beaten to death, but I just generally dislike a ditto vote that contributes nothing. There's no question to WMC, and there's no attempt to explore any other avenues. WMC is certainly not the only potential scum suspect right now, and there's plenty of daylight left, so this just looks like coasting.

On the topic, I really do think, as bizarre as it is, that WMC was trying to lay some sort of trap. What else could his "you missed the point" post mean? (not a rhetorical question--this is really bothering me). I can't tell whether this is a scummy move or a poorly conceived, town-motivated one. I'm just as interested as Implosion to see an instance of this being at all effective.

Mongoose's 64 is rather terrible, and I agree with Implosion's assessment. What is really interesting about Mongoose's post is that he was rattled enough by this distancing accusation that he bothered to make a second joke vote to rectify the situation (which really shouldn't be perceived as a "situation" in the first place). Nervous scum?
1. Fluff
2. Stating the obvious

I could go on if you'd like. Your wishy-washyness stems not from staying neutral, but for stretching posting for both sides when you could just say you're neutral.
...
Tch, I don't like this. Give more than just a number and "stating the obvious."
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Pfft, I read through the whole thing without looking at the last page and my biggest suspect was Neil

Thats just kinda lame.
Not feeling that town would say this.
...
KTS targeting over9000 earns him town points.
Eh, hows that work? Those two posts were basically the same post, I just hit the submit button to early.
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
Liking mb53 better in #112, less for the content, more for the sharper tone.
...
Sharp tone earns town points from you? :?
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
over9000 interactions with ICE and KTS are +town, though my reads are bound to switch.
...
...You mean me and ICE are town, not over, right?
After that you skip a couple of posts with content in them.
Hold on a sec...
DarthYoshi wrote:(On a general level, not directed at Mb53 in particular) I agree with the amount of pressure being put on _over9000, and will definitely consider joining the wagon if he doesn't come through with his promise to post content soon. In my experience, lurking + promising content without delivering = scum.
Did anything ever come of this? (Spoiler: No, not really.)
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
_over9000 wrote:I still believe that people are letting WoMC's "trap" off too easily, and all things considered I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
Reasons, etc
What reasons, and who should/has give/n them? It is unclear.
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:#132, KTS is tunneling.
Escuse me? What part of that post is tunneling?
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:Nameless and DarthYoshi are still looking town.
I feel like it should be noted that DarthYoshi agreed with all of the points I brought up in that post where I "tunneled" _over9000.
You skip a couple posts here...
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
Agree with implosion's #152, moving down in scumminess.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with him saying how you shouldn't be voted for in that post. (this post is also the one that seems to start the stuff that everyone is talking about with implosion right now)
Woahey, you skipped over DarthYoshi directly calling out to you to say some stuff about the "remains of his wagon"
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
#167 (Nameless on implosion with contradictions) I might agree with if it didn't go and mess up my current reads. Some flips will sort incompatibles out, though.
You do realize that you are basically saying that you are ignoring this post until somebody dies and proves you wrong, right? Yeah...
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
My reactions are consistent with KTS's. I can understand where he came from there.
:)

Oh, hey. I just realised that Yoshi only FOSed me, not voted for me. My mistake.
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
#177 (Nameless's rebuttal) not doing the same for me as #167.
Re-reading that part about WIFOM made my brow crinkle. implosion said that scum would attack over regardless of over's alignment but Nameless' rebuttal is a WIFOM about whether or not the mafia would enter into this whole WIFOM thing over attacking easy targets with town not voting for the obvious targets because of that, it just doesn't seem to have anything to do with the actual argument at hand except as this wierd side-thing.

Hm, and thats pretty much the end of it. Good to have you actually in the game WoMC. :)

Ok, that was a huge post from me. That took awile. I'm gonna go take a shower now.
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Post Post #201 (isolation #18) » Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:16 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Whoops, sorry. : (
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Post Post #206 (isolation #19) » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:30 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

q21 wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Zdenek wrote:
1216 wrote: I changed my votes like that because it looked like nameless had a pretty good case on implosion being scum, but then implosion gave a pretty good defense post and I realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum. Also, I'm not gonna stay on implosion, who is actually defending himself, when _over9000 still apparently requires more pressure to do so. (Hintedy hint hint, Mr. over.)
First you say that the case looked good, which implies that you read it and understood it, so you think Implosion is scum. Then you move your vote because he defends himself, and because Implosion is only scum if 9000 is scum. This seems to me like a bad excuse to move your vote and like lining up lynches. Also, when you say that for Implosion to be scummy 9000 must be scum, are you just referring to the fact that Implosion on longer wants to push the 9000 wagon?
...
1. I did in fact read the case, yes. :igmeou: The specific defense that implosion gave I believe was, "Your quotes are out of context. Also, misrep." At the time of me voting I had not, in fact, looked back at where the quotes were. (actually I still havn't, I should go do that soon.)
2. "and like lining up lynches"? What?
3. I mean what I said, the only scum motivation (other than pretty bad play) that I can think of for him saying what he has about the people voting for _over9000 would be if over is also scum. If over was town he could have just waited till tommorow to say stuff about people on his wagon being scum and not risked himself at all.
4. What scum reasoning
would
implosion have for doing what he has did if over is town? 'Cause I can't think of any.
1. So you admit to blindly sheeping?
2. Agree with you here.
3 & 4: You seem to be assuming implosion is scum, am I reading that right?
Zdenek wrote:I'm accusing 1216 of lining up lynches because of the fact that if 9000 flips scum, he'll want to lynch Implosion tomorrow, but also, my impression is that he's assuming that Implosion is scum, so I'm guessing that he'll want to lynch Implosion tomorrow even if 9000 flipped town.

1216, if over9000 was lynched, and flipped town, would you want to still be suspicious of Implosion?

I will read the walls soon.
Huh? The whole argument thing we were getting into was potential scum motivations for the stuff implosion did with the _over9000 wagon. If I didn't "assume he was scum" when discussing scum motivations how would I be able to say
anything
about the subject.
@Zdenek: He wouldn't be instantly cleared of all suspicion, but my suspicions would probably be lowered a little. Also the "and like lining up lynches" was put there because you phrased that in a way that was incredibly confusing.
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Post Post #208 (isolation #20) » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:19 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

q21 wrote:So King was blindly sheeping followed by jumping off that sheep vote (which was on implosion, who he still thinks scummy) onto someone else who, it seems, his suspicion is largely based on implosion being scum. This is coming across as scummy. He's using a relationship based argument when neither member of that relationship has flipped scum yet... it seems more like he's trying to excuse his jump onto the leading wagon of the day. We can lynch silavor later when we maybe have some evidence of multiple scum teams (which would make his slip rather damning) or not (which would make his excuse rather more believable). For now we should lynch King.

Unvote, Vote King
Escuse me?! I was on the over wagon before I voted implosion! Then I realised that my vote wasn't the best one and changed back to over! Absolutely none of my reasoning for voting over in the first place, OR the second place was caused by implosion! In fact it is the other way around, with most scumyness from IMPLOSION being if OVER is scum! Which is why I changed back to over, since if he is town I don't think implosion would be scummy enough to lynch!

I call misrep. :mad:
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Post Post #214 (isolation #21) » Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:18 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

q21 wrote:If that's what you've meant all along then your posting hasn't come across that way. The town can go back and read you in context, for themselves and decide.
Why don't YOU do that, then come back and say something that actually responds to my response, instead of just saying "Everyone can make up their minds on their own"? I bet its because you are completly ignoring that I pushed _over9000 pretty much straight from the start as anyone who looks at my ISO will know. (Posts 2#, 4#, and 6# all push _over9000, to be specific.)

That pretty much completely counters this point in your acusation.
q21 wrote:...
his suspicion
[of over]
is largely based on implosion being scum. This is coming across as scummy. He's using a relationship based argument when neither member of that relationship has flipped scum yet... it seems more like he's trying to excuse his jump onto the leading wagon of the day.
...
Oh hey, I gots another question for you:
q21 wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Zdenek wrote:
1216 wrote: I changed my votes like that because it looked like nameless had a pretty good case on implosion being scum, but then implosion gave a pretty good defense post and I realised that the only scum motivation I could think of for implosion's posts would be if _over9000 was scum. Also, I'm not gonna stay on implosion, who is actually defending himself, when _over9000 still apparently requires more pressure to do so. (Hintedy hint hint, Mr. over.)
First you say that the case looked good, which implies that you read it and understood it, so you think Implosion is scum. Then you move your vote because he defends himself, and because Implosion is only scum if 9000 is scum. This seems to me like a bad excuse to move your vote and like lining up lynches. Also, when you say that for Implosion to be scummy 9000 must be scum, are you just referring to the fact that Implosion on longer wants to push the 9000 wagon?
...
1. I did in fact read the case, yes. :igmeou: The specific defense that implosion gave I believe was, "Your quotes are out of context. Also, misrep." At the time of me voting I had not, in fact, looked back at where the quotes were. (actually I still havn't, I should go do that soon.)
2. "and like lining up lynches"? What?
3. I mean what I said, the only scum motivation (other than pretty bad play) that I can think of for him saying what he has about the people voting for _over9000 would be if over is also scum. If over was town he could have just waited till tommorow to say stuff about people on his wagon being scum and not risked himself at all.
4. What scum reasoning
would
implosion have for doing what he has did if over is town? 'Cause I can't think of any.
1. So you admit to blindly sheeping?
2. Agree with you here.

3 & 4: You seem to be assuming implosion is scum, am I reading that right?
What are you agreeing with me here about? :neutral:
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Post Post #220 (isolation #22) » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:58 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

I'm waiting for q21 to respond to my latest post...
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Post Post #237 (isolation #23) » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:41 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:Nine posts in a row
Couldn't you just have made one big post instead? Also:
Saint wrote:
neko2086 wrote:Wow, really?
vote: Neil
. I had 2 questions for you. So are you sure you don't have anything to add? And, if you're not posting just because your name came up, then why? You really didn't contribute anythin here.

By the way, I'm not saying everyone needs to post their top scum suspects right now, just that it's really not a good idea to be drawing a complete list of town and scum reads for the reason Neil just mentioned.
I have a read so far.
You.
As the SK.

to mimic implosion in a funny manner:
/discuss

hahahahaha
I'm serious, though.
Put your serious face on for a second, Neko.
You have appeared very detached from the town, borderline nervous. Why would I be reading you like that, if you are not an SK? Is this setup open? With 13 players, I expect 3 scum and an SK. Implosion's list realized this.

I'm fairly certain, at this point, Implosion/mb53/someone are scum
and neko is the SK

everyone else, then, would be town
we will see, however
Whats with the sudden jokeyness? Perhaps it is you who is the serial killer! Since you seem so convinced there is one and once you mention your read for the SK your posting style changes to be much more jokey.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #24) » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:29 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:...
King- Why Saint's method of entering the game is worth bringing up is beyond me. It makes no difference. This looks to me like you're just trying to find something to criticize and not actually scumhunting. Also, your speculation of Saint as the SK is almost as bad as his own. Why is the use of jokes suddenly a SK tell?
...
It just
annoys
me. Having a whole bunch of posts in a row like that instead of just making a single post. Urgh.

Its not the use of jokes, Saint uses a couple little minor joke thingies in his other posts, its the sudden seeming change in style from little aside things that take up maybe a sentance max to
"hahaha
Ok serious time
put your serious face on"
which reads as suspicious. I also have a gut read from his general posts of him being some sort of scum. Seems a bit to eager to accuse anyone of anything. He also seems to just...ignore any scummyness his predeccesor had. Like, not ignore the suspicions, just flat out trying to explain away the stuff as if it was nothing at all, even when nobody is calling him specifically out on it.
Oh, just rereading and Saint asks Neko what his (saint's) read on Neko is about. How could anyone know whats up with someone elses read like that? Unless they can read minds or something...
Saint wrote:...
4) Can be answered as not liking WoMC's failtrap of IIoA ON PAGE ONE.
-just sayin'
Yep, it sure could have been. Potentially.
It wasn't though. In fact he explained nothing at all.

Um, other stuff. Empking should have noticed the like 10 posts of people saying not to post the list of scum stuff and then not done what he did. He also shoulda explained his vote more. q21 never really answered for his accusing me with something you could debunk from my second post in ISO.
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Post Post #272 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:25 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:...
KTS--how does being eager to accuse work as a scumtell for you? Really, how do all those other behaviors you describe of Saint work as scumtells? Your last post about Saint...it doesn't look good. It comes across as a lot of grasping at straws.
...
Thats why those were mentioned after "Gut tell" in my post. The main thing was that his posting style changed for a single post wherein he accused somebody of being the SK when we as of yet have no real basis for calling anyone that or even really thinking there is one.
Empking wrote:
Nameless wrote:
Empking wrote:All my reads are due to gut. And the only one I'm overly confident in is Nameless (who is no doubt about it bona fide scum) and q21.
Hello active lurking.
Hello attacking your attacker.
Perhaps if you had included any reasoning in your post, at all, he could dispute it (or attempt to) and you could move on from there. You didn't give
any
reasoning why anyone should think of nameless as scummy, just that you arbitrarily do. Not a single reason or accusation.
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Post Post #276 (isolation #26) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:22 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
DarthYoshi wrote:Empking--why is it important to inform everyone of all your reads, as opposed to, say, just your scumreads? And, why gut when you have over 250 posts of material to analyze? And, why are your definitive reads definitive to you?
1. Because I've just replaced in.
2. In depth analysis is just a way to feel confident in your fallacy filled reads.
3. Because they're ridiculously obvious.

FOS: King
- Ignoring my question, jumping on the Empking wagon rather than scumhunting, "Empking should have noticed the like 10 posts of people saying not to post the list of scum stuff and then not done what he did." which is just so filled with scumminess I'm not sure where to begin.
What, you mean the question of asking me to repeat what I had just said about Saint? 'Cause I've already said what I think of Saint in the posts where I talk about Saint. Additionally, the questions I have asked you would in fact qualify as scumhunting, whilst your "You are scummy because it is obvious" would most definitely not. Also, nobody is voting for you.

@2. You didn't actually answer the question given to you, just snidely implied that everyone that posted scumreads is completely wrong.
@3. What? You can't just say "its obvious" with no evidence given and expect us to believe you. Well, I mean obviously you can, but we still won't believe you.
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Post Post #298 (isolation #27) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:39 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:...
Firstly, he goes through his first two posts of the game without putting on a vote. This is a deliberately anti-town action and oner I would not expect from town.
If you read the timestamps, or even the third post, it becomes incredibly obvious that those are the same post and that I merely hit the submit button to early.
Empking wrote:
Pfft, I read through the whole thing without looking at the last page and my biggest suspect was Neil

Thats just kinda lame.
Well gee this is a transparent ploy isn't it. Now who makes transparent ploys?
Oh, and what ploy would that be?
Empking wrote: ...
Neil does not exist. He is a figment of your imagination.
I am Neil. Neil is me. We are one.

Seriously I don't know what Neils problem was, (he was super wierd looking in his posts) but he is not here anymore. I am.
Stop your scum hunting right away!
The reason I posted that was because it seemed like
everyone
in thread was still talking to/about Neil as if he was still there. Whilst ignoring that I was now playing. It was incredibly annoying.
Empking wrote:
Reading his posts, he's still attacking that lurker rather thasn doing any scumhunting. Yay!
I would imagine that the lurkers obvious refusal to post content whilst simultaneously claiming he had would qualify as scummy.
Empking wrote:
@nameless: Wow, nice one. Theres like 3 different contradictions there.
Wow being a hypocrite (He accuses 9000 of parotting) and either buddying up or supporting his scum buddy. (The post suggests the first, the fact thaty Nameless is scum suggests the latter.). Theres like 3 different scum tells there.

And he goes back to his lurker WAGON as soon as he's worried Implosion won't be lynched.
(Why did you capitalize wagon?)
Nobody else had even said anything at that point, I just realised it was a stupid vote and changed back.
I accused 9000 of providing no original content at all, which he hadn't, whilst he was simultaneously declaring that he was being helpful, which he wasn't.
Empking wrote:
Empking should have noticed the like 10 posts of people saying not to post the list of scum stuff and then not done what he did. He also shoulda explained his vote more.
This is him pretending to scuhunting. Do you know who pretendfeds to scumhunt? That's right! Scum.
You
should
have explained your vote more. Actually you still should, since you still havn't explained it. Even gut reads have some slight reason behind them.
There were plenty of posts with people explaining why posting scum-lists was a bad idea and you ignored them.

Additionally I noticed that you ignored my latest post in this accusation, why is that exactly?
Nameless wrote:Saint, I swear to God I would lynch you right now if you had a wagon. If you don't see how your catchup was scummy then you have apparently not read pretty much everything anyone has had to say about you since you replaced in.
...I'm pretty sure Saint has a couple people other than me voting for him.
Uh, maybe.

We really need that vote-count.
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Post Post #306 (isolation #28) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:10 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Nameless
There you go with the not explaining your votes thing again. And not responding to my posts.

@mod: You have implosion voting for both nobody and Empking simultaneously.
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Post Post #309 (isolation #29) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:25 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Nameless
There you go with the not explaining your votes thing again. And not responding to my posts.
Why is this post scummy?
1. IIoA
2. Refusing to put him out there.
3. No analysis
4. Trying to throw mud at a player for things that are a null tell at worst.
1. My analysis is that you should actually explain why you are doing things, instead of just moving your votes around wily-nilly with no justification.
2. I have no idea what that means.
3. This point is the same as point 1.
4. Not explaining your votes and refusal to answer questions about it even when called on it are null tells?
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Post Post #318 (isolation #30) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:20 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:4. No its clearly a town tell, that's what the "at worst" is there for.
What.
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Post Post #331 (isolation #31) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:02 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:4. No its clearly a town tell, that's what the "at worst" is there for.
What.
Apparently this post did not contain the full measure of my disbelieve in this statement. Here is a new post that should hopefully clear things up.
what.
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Post Post #333 (isolation #32) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:16 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:4. No its clearly a town tell, that's what the "at worst" is there for.
What.
Apparently this post did not contain the full measure of my disbelieve in this statement. Here is a new post that should hopefully clear things up.
what.
What do you call an action with no scum motivation but with a town motivation? I call it a town tell.
...What is the town motivation behind refusing to answer questions or give motivations? The scum motivation is to stifle debate and to give them the ability to not have to give good reasons for their votes/actions. It also could be an attempt to not have to explain something at all, so that if they arn't called on it they could get away without having to give any suspicious scummy arguments.
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Post Post #335 (isolation #33) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:55 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:The town motive is to lure scum out of their comfort zone it also helps trap players who are more interested in theory than hunting scum. (i.e you). he scum motivations you give are really awful. 1. It doesn't stiffle debate 2. Arguments are rarely scummy.
1. Yes it does, the only debate we are having about your suspicions of Nameless right now is that you should actually explain them.
2. Arguments that are faulty should be declared so. Faulty arguments could get town killed. Arguments that get town killed with faulty accusations should be considered scummy.

How does it lure scum out of their comfort zone? Also, knowing the reason other players are voting for people tends to be
kind of important
for figuring out if they are scum or town.
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Post Post #337 (isolation #34) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:46 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:1. Wrong. I'm finding scum. People who are not you and I are talking about other things.
2. Unless made public then they can only be bad for the town if the player thinking them is town. That's obviously not scummy.

How does it lure scum out of their comfort zone?
1. Its unusual
2. They can't prepare.
Also, knowing the reason other players are voting for people tends to be kind of important for figuring out if they are scum or town.
This is just typical scum lying.
1. Yes, but the entire debate on why you are voting for nameless is being stifled. Just because other people talk about other things doesn't mean you are helping find scum.
2. So people should just vote with the faulty arguments in their mind and never have them debunked? That seems like a sure way to mislynch.
1a. Theres a reason for that.
2b. Town can't prepare either. Or respond in any way. Nobody can.
3. Try debunking the point instead of calling me a liar. Perhaps give a way to find scum that doesn't rely on finding people's motivations for things.
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Post Post #352 (isolation #35) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:18 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:1. As the only player (other that ICE(?)) on the right track I kinda am.
NO.


I havn't even finished reading the rest of your post as of writing this part. But NO.

DO NOT claim that you are the "only one on the right track" when you have given ZERO evidence, ZERO reasoning, and you just think that "Its ok because I'm right."
NO, just NO.
There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even know where to begin explaining it.
Empking wrote:2. Changing the goal posts much. Hmmm, who would do that? Oh, yeah, scum.
1a. Yes the newbie game teaching poor play.
2b. Town don't need to prepare.
3. I don't need to debunk the point. Its clearly false. Oh wait unless your saying that scum are honest about their reasons you're changing the goal posts yet again.
2. I did not "change the goal posts," that seperate argument came about in the middle of this argument when you claimed that arguments are rarely scummy. Seems to me you are more trying to change where this is going.
1a. This argument, on the other hand, is going straight into the ground as my counter is that claiming that everyone is wrong without giving solid evidence is bad and blah blah blah it just goes in circles since you seem to be
attempting
to give that argument now. I officially "change the goal post" to "This part of the argument is clearly not going to accomplish anything."
2b. They do need to have some way to respond to faulty accusations if say, some random scummy character accused them of being scum. If no arguments or reasons are given then no arguments or reasons can be returned. (other than: "Explain your post/vote")
3. Scum
arn't
honest. Thats the whole point. You catch them in their accidental contradictions, find where people seem to be going against the towns wellbeing, stuff like that. Town on the other hand are supposed to be honest (sadly I have seen some games where this is not the case (town lost horribly in all of them)) and give their real reasons. This whole game is figuring out who is lying and who is telling the truth.
implosion wrote:Emp 273: serious question here, serious answer please - are you intentionally making your justifications for voting/fosing/everything/etcetera bad?
For a second there around when he claimed not giving out any information was a null/town tell I actually thought he was the jester, but then I remembered the rules for mini-normals said that there are no jesters.
Saint wrote:You all are also strawmanning by not focusing on the entire concept, but only a small part of it, or at least you need to concern yourself with the meat of the argument.
What argument? :neutral:
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Post Post #353 (isolation #36) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

I suppose I should
actually
at least
start
to explain why I dislike that statement so much.

It is for the attitude that it implies.

The attitude that you are right, and everyone else is wrong. That you don't have to think critically of any of your beliefs or discuss any conflicting beliefs because "I'm right."
I despise that attitude. It has caused so much strife and discord. It shuts down any significant communication with the person who holds that attitude. You cannot argue, convince, or reason with somebody holding that type of attitude. The worst part is that most people with that attitude won't change even if shown wrong, the only way to remove it is a major, major wakeup call from reality saying that "No, you are wrong." Like life-shattering events type things here. Even then some people like that
still
won't change, and will stay stuck in their self-delusion forever.

That is why I dislike that point so much.
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Post Post #355 (isolation #37) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:03 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:Question; Why are you having this argument?
Which argument? The ridiculous one that not explaining anything is pure townie or the one about attitudes that refuse any reasonable discussion?
If its the second one it is because I absolutely despise that attitude.
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Post Post #358 (isolation #38) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:50 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote: So you're not hunting scum. You're just gtrying to distract the town?

Well, who does that? Scum.

(This is my lsast post toweards you. I am still on the Nameless wagon, remember.)
This is I believe in my mind's count the fifth time you have accused me of being scum, and then you immediatly point out that your still on the Nameless wagon. Who does that? Scum.
Empking wrote:...
Emp 273: serious question here, serious answer please - are you intentionally making your justifications for voting/fosing/everything/etcetera bad?
Look King is clearly not town. He's purposely active lurking, engaging in rhetoric to get the town to like him, lurker voting, wagon hopping (in a riduclously scummy fashion. Like stupidly so.) and all in all not even pretending to scumhunt. You might think those are poor reasons but that's because you're not very good at this game.
Once again you refuse to answer the question asked.
I have not been "wagon hopping," before now I switched votes once then switched it back two posts later. You however have switched to me with (faulty) reasoning and then back to Nameless with zero reasons given whatsoever, and then you just say that other people are bad at the game for not thinking the same thing you do.

Emp you have repeatedly dodged or deflected nearly every single question I have asked you.

You have claimed I used AtE then immediatly afterward claimed my post had nothing to do with the game.

Also, If arguing with you is active lurking then you are doing it as well. Except of course the fact that you started it by refusing to answer a simple question about why you were voting for Nameless, then claiming that not telling town was
not scummy at all no siree
and that asking you
why
you were voting for certain people was
incredibly
scummy.
Empking wrote:...
FOS: King
-
Ignoring my question
, jumping on the Empking wagon rather than scumhunting, "Empking should have noticed the like 10 posts of people saying not to post the list of scum stuff and then not done what he did." which is just so filled with scumminess I'm not sure where to begin.
Underlined is blatant hypocrisy.
UNVOTE
VOTE:Empking
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Post Post #371 (isolation #39) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:40 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
Also, If arguing with you is active lurking then you are doing it as well
How so? I argued with you to cement my read.

But I guess thast post was just OMGUS, nun huh you did it too and "I know you are but what am I".

Seriously, you're just ridiculous with saying I refused to answer that question. Implosion wanted to know something. He now knows it.
Ah, the "Its only scummy if someone else does it" argument. A classic.
That was a single accusation in a post that contained at least six accusations. Misrep.
You didn't answer the question, you used it to attack me. If you were actually answering the question you would have just said "yes" and left it at that.
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Post Post #379 (isolation #40) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:10 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:...
My discussion with King has given me a 100% scum read on him. Can you say the same about me or Implosion?
1. YOUR VOTE ISNT ON ME.
2. 100%? Impossible. This is mafia.
3. He can't for the reason listed under "2."
4. Seriously! Point one! Why?
5. You said during our argument that arguments rarely ever are scummy, and now you say that it was my arguments against you that confirmed me as scum.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #41) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:...
King admitted that he wasn't trying to scumhunt.

...
Lies, I said no such thing.
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Post Post #392 (isolation #42) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:58 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

If your "he admitted to not be scumhunting" thing is in reference to that quote where I describe the arguments then I really don't think you've thought it through enough.

The first case is ridiculous because not giving explanations is crazy anti-town and bad. It goes against the entire point of the game. The second one I only brought up because you were so general and unspecific in your question asking, (like a lot of what you've posted so far) so I wasn't sure if you were counting my explanation how stupid and horrible and terrible that attitude is as an argument or not. Or if you were talking about it. Thats why I asked you what you were talking about. In fact you never have specified what you were talking about then. Or responded to most of the other points in the post where that second thing came about. You just immediatly ended the entire discussion and claimed I had admitted to not scumhunting, something that didn't happen. At all.

P.S. When I was arguing the big ridiculous case I was trying to figure out if you were merely playing teribbly or scum. That counts as scumhunting.
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Post Post #398 (isolation #43) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:17 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
P.S. When I was arguing the big ridiculous case I was trying to figure out if you were merely playing teribbly or scum. That counts as scumhunting.
Really, I could have sworn it was:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:Question; Why are you having this argument?
Which argument? The ridiculous one that not explaining anything is pure townie or the one about attitudes that refuse any reasonable discussion?
If its the second one it is because I absolutely despise that attitude.
King did not misremember that. He's lying to trick the town.
Ok, I honestly have no idea what you're even talking about anymore.
Empking wrote:I'm going to claim in order for us to lynch the obvious scum rather than being shamelessly manipulated by them. Mason here. Now let's vote Nameless.
Still you push the case on Nameless. Not me. Not the apparently 100% scummy person. And you are claiming in order to push that case.
So, are/is your mason partner/s going to confirm you?
Empking wrote:...
2. When asked why he was having an argument he said (in no uncertain terms) that it was not to scumhunt but because he didn't like the attitude I had. When called upon it he made up some cockamany excuse. Why don't you consider that a lie?
Ok, THATS what you are talking about.

As previously stated, I only brought that thing up as a possible thing you could be talking about because I wasn't sure what you were talking about. The attitude thing had two posts about it and the second was immediatly after the first and did nothing but clarify why I hated that reasoning so much.
The reasoning being that you are right because you just are. The whole thing was me saying that that attitude and the actions and "reasoning" that result from it shove any and all debate straight into the ground and that you had better not be using those actions and reasoning to try and justify yourself, because no, that is not how it works. AT ALL. EVER. You have to give
actual
reasons other than "because its true" if you want people to believe you. Or be able to debate with you. Or say that you are right. Or really do anything at all.

To be more specific and helpful and whatnot I shall spell it out: the reason I made that big seperate thing calling the attitude terrible and useless is because I DESPISE that attitude. Otherwise I would have just made a single little point like: "Thats not how it works" or "Try giving a real explanation instead of just saying that you're right" or something like that. The reason I made the huge thing that could make that qualify as a seperate argument is because I so severly dislike everything there is about that attitude. Everything.
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Post Post #401 (isolation #44) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:17 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:...
Still you push the case on Nameless. Not me. Not the apparently 100% scummy person.
When Darth Yoshi compromises that's A-OK. When I do that's unambigious evidence of my being scum. Why the contradiction? Oh, yes. Because you're scum.
What? You flat out said that I was 100% definantly scum and you arn't voting for me, and
this is the first time you've ever given a reason why you are voting for Nameless instead of me.
Whats this thing about Darth Yoshi? Whats he got to do with this? Only one person is voting for Nameless. You are compromising with one guy on a "gut" vote instead of attacking either of the other two people who you (apparently) have actual reasoning to vote for.
Empking wrote:
...
Or to put it into less passionate terms. "I was active lurking because I'm scum."
How about: "I refuse to actually argue anything instead of being overly general and giving accusations that don't contribute to the debate at all because I'm scum." :mad:

Tch, just ISOing you and I noticed these two posts were rightn next to each other
Empking wrote:...
(And of course there aren't slips. Slips are a newbie tell.)
...
Empking wrote:...
King admitted that he wasn't trying to scumhunt.

I goty King to admit to not trying to scumhunt or to put ity into other words I got King to admit to being scum. What have you done today?
Sounds an awful lot like these two posts should be mutually exclusive.

You still have not said whether or not your mason partner is going to confirm you.
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Post Post #414 (isolation #45) » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:23 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
ANSWER MY QUESTION

...
Hypocrite. The entire huge thing that started our arguments was you refusing to answer questions and calling it a town tell.
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Post Post #426 (isolation #46) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:45 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:Your mafia goon claims for two reasons (to out a power role or to get to end game). Which one I'm I doing?
Wrong, there is another reason. The goon knows he's gonna die anyway and claims in a desperate attempt to get a/several townies lynched before he goes. If he thinks he's gonna be lynched anyway theres no downside for the scumteam and it gives him a chance 'cause a/several mislynch'es. Though the several would probably only happen if the town was acting kinda stupid.
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Post Post #428 (isolation #47) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:01 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:Your mafia goon claims for two reasons (to out a power role or to get to end game). Which one I'm I doing?
Wrong, there is another reason. The goon knows he's gonna die anyway and claims in a desperate attempt to get a/several townies lynched before he goes. If he thinks he's gonna be lynched anyway theres no downside for the scumteam and it gives him a chance 'cause a/several mislynch'es. Though the several would probably only happen if the town was acting kinda stupid.
This is a load of scum tosh.

If we leave the goon for later then we 1. Have the best scumhunters still alive. 2. Have the more accurate players (for this individual game) still alive. That means we're more likely to get a lynch on another scum if we leave the goon for later.
...Are you recommending we don't lynch the first mafia goon we find? And whats this about best scumhunters and more accurate players? :neutral:
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Post Post #436 (isolation #48) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:36 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Eh, this isn't done yet but its close to deadline so I'm posting this much right now. It's like half way through anyway.
I have decided to make a post-by-post analysis and point out everything Empking has done scummily. Complete with tally of Scum-pointsTM, (Warning, is very long. Also a little confusing.) (and not done.)

Post 0: Says he's joined the game, nothing interesting here.
Post 1: Posts a scum list even though at least 3/4 of the town have specifically said not to do that, +1. Votes on someone without explanation, +1.
Post 2: Claims gut read on Nameless, +1/2.
Post 3: Claims every read he has is gut, all of them, +1.
Post 4: 1 Player previous this askes for reasons other than gut, ignored, +1. Claims that Nameless is just attacking his attacker, doesn't counter his actual accusation in any way, +1.

Post 5: Claims that "In depth analysis is just a way to feel confident in your fallacy filled reads." as the reason he has only gut reads. Ignores that there are ways to analyse other than "in depth", +1, then says that it is obvious that Nameless is scum without giving any other reason, +1. FOSes me for not answering questions, (I had quoted someone else when I explained what I thought of Saint, not him. Apparently you have to specifically say you are answering a question for it to count.) when he himself has just avoided answering two questions in the same post, +1 for that, additional +4 for his later claim that not answering questions or giving reasons for voting is town. Says I am "jumping on the Empking wagon rather than scumhunting," (at this point nobody is voting him (One guy is voting his predeccesor though) and I'm still talking about Saint as well. Like, in the same post he claims I'm jumping on his wagon at I'm talking about Saint.) +1, then claims my post saying that he shouldn't post a full scum-town read list (especially when there are at least 10 posts of people saying not to) is scummy for no reason other than my post is "so filled with scuminess that I don't even know where to begin," +1.
Currently three people saying to give reasons other than gut.

Post 6: Me, Yoshi, and Ice all say to give reasoning other than "its obvious". 5 players have now said to give reasons other than gut on the Nameless read and everything else. All of this is ignored, +2. Additionally I bring up the question ignoring and the wagon hoping (to him) comment, both also ignored, +1. Except this post is a case specifically against me, +1/2 more.
Says not voting immediatly on entering is anti-town and that I am scum for it, even though those posts were consecetive, +1. Says something is a transparent ploy and doesn't elaborate, +1/2. Claims I changed my vote as soon as I thought Implosion won't be lynched, even though there is only one post between my voting and unvoting him, +1/2. Says I'm pretending to scumhunt when I included a minor thing calling him out for the scum-town list thing. Does not elaborate, instead says: "Do you know who pretendfeds to scumhunt? That's right! Scum," +1 and 1/2.

Post 7: Ignores my defense, instead focusing on Yoshi asking him why not voting early is a scumtell, +1. He also acts very patronising to Yoshi, +1/4.

Post 8: Nothing in this post but a vote for Nameless. Even though the count of people that have asked for reasoning for suspecting Nameless is currently 5. +2

Post 9: I say to Emp that he is still not giving reason for his Nameless vote and that he ignored my post again. He claims its scummy for me to do so, (+1 for attacking his attacker) the reasons being IIoA, that I gave no analysis, (which is covered by IIoA, +1.) that I'm "refusing to put [myself] out there", and then he claims that not answering questions or giving reasons for votes is a null tell at worst.

Post 10: Currently in the middle of an argument with me. Says the analysis comment was really supposed to mean "not thinking about the game in depth then," +10 for contradicting himself, he said in depth analysis was worse than useless earlier.
And then he goes and says that not answering questions or giving reasons for votes is a town tell, which is still stupid but I've decided not to give any points for that stuff because it would inflate the end count.

Post 11: Says that Pie has completly opposite reads than he does. Post is kinda pointless.

Post 12: mb has called Emp out for the "immediate vote is town, you didn't do that" thing. Nameless calls Emp out on being patronising and refusing to answer questions whilst simultaneously declaring it a town tell. I've posted my first "what." post. Pie votes him for having Mongoose as a predeccesor (or something). neko has said that meta-wise town-emp is missing and that town-emp would have called for a mass-claim.
This post is entirely a link to where Emp says town should mass-claim in these games, specifically only
after
someone has called you on it. +1.5 for that, another +1 for ignoring everything else, +1 again for doing these both together.

Post 13: I post the bigger "what." post and Empking responds with this post. He claims not answering questions or giving reasoning for votes is a town-tell because it has no scum motivation but plenty of town ones. +1/2 for forgetting that scum could purpousefully do town-tells in order to seem town. +1/2 for not giving those town reasons.

Post 14: Argumentation with me happening again. I give scum motivations (Stifle debate and get away with not needing arguments) and ask for town ones, he says the town ones are to "lure scum out of their comfort zone" (which makes no sense) and "helps trap players who are more interested in theory than hunting scum." He says I'm one of the second type. Then he calls my scum reasons awful because "it doesn't" (+1/2) and "Arguments are rarely scummy." (+?)

Post 15: I say it does stifle debate and give an example, then point out that faulty arguments could get town killed and should be considered scummy. (since scum wants town killed.) I ask how it takes scum out of their comfort zone and mention that knowing the reasoning behind votes is important for determening their alignment.

Then comes his post: He says it doesn't stifle debate because he's "finding scum" (me?) and because people who arn't me and him are talking about other things, which is false, the last 5 posts are only ours, +1 for that, another +1 for it being irrelevant to the debate whether other people are talking about other things, since we are talking about whether the debate on Nameless is being stifled. Then he says that unless they are made public faulty cases arn't damaging. He says the reason that it lures scum out of their comfort zone is that they can't prepare and its unusual. Then he responds to the last point (importance of arguments for alignment determinations) by saying I'm lying and giving no other reason, +1.

Post 16: I say that Nameless debate is stifled and other people talking is irrelevant to him finding scum, people voting with faulty cases in their mind will cause mis-lynches, "theres a reason for [it being unusual]...", nobody can prepare or even respond to it, and that he should counter the last point instead of calling me a liar.
He says: "As the only player on the right track...I kinda am" which I have already made an angry post about, +1 for not giving real reasons. He doesn't respond to the next point, instead claiming I'm changing the goal posts and am scum for it, then does that "who would do that? Oh, yeah, scum." thing again, +1. Says the reason why its unusual is newbie games teaching new players badly. Says town don't need to prepare and ignores the rest of the point, +1. He says he doesn't have to debunk the point because it is clearly false because scum arn't honest, +0 because he actually gave a reason there, even if he was pretending not to.

Post 17: People other than just us two start posting again. Ice says Emp's case is weak and that he isn't scumhunting much (and that Ice doesn't like me either). Implosion asks Emp if he saw the reactions to scumscales before he posted his and if he was purpousfully giving terrible reasoning for everything, then agrees with neko about Emp-meta, and says he would have switched to Emp now if he hadn't already been voting for Mongoose. Yoshi says he can't tell if Emp is scum or just anti-town.
I make my counter which goes, not including the attitude thing, basically like this: I didn't change goalposts that happened automatically, Emp saying I'm doing it is him trying to do it. This part is officially going nowhere. I point out the parts of this point he ignored. I say the whole point is that scum are dishonest whilst town is honest. I also mention that Emps playing is bad enough to make me think he could be a jester, if there were jesters.
His reply is post 17, where he says: AtE on the attitude thing, then asks me why I am having "this argument"

Post 18: I ask which argument he's asking about, if its the big argument or the thing about attitudes that just popped up, and that the reason I made the whole huge thing for the second was because I dislike it so much. Emp asks if I'm not hunting scum, just distracting the town, says I'm scum for it, then says that this is the last post for me because he's still on Nameless's wagon, +3 points for that last part.

Post 19: Consecutive to previous post, answers Implosion's questions with yes I saw people talking about the scumscales before I posted them and then uses the second to attack me, instead of giving any actual answer, +1 for that, he says I'm active lurking, using rhetoric to get town to like me, lurker voting, wagon hopping, and "not even pretening to scumhunt," he also acts like a jerk to Implosion, +1/4.

Post 20: I give a case against Emp right before this post that goes like so: Mentioning the +three thing then sarcasticly immitating him, he didn't answer Implosion's second question, give a counter for "wagon hopping" and say the Emp is doing it himself, Emp dodges way to many questions, a thing about AtE that I realised was incorrect and won't repeat, if our argument was me active lurking than Emp is as well, except worse since he started it, and then pointed out that +four thing way back in post 5.
He said: I argued with you to cement my read (so its not active lurking), that my entire post is just OMGUS, and that he did answer Implosion's question. +5 for ignoring the entire rest of the argument in favor of attacking the points he thought weakest.

Post 21: Pie says he wants Empking lynched. Emp's post is responding to Setael's post, nothing really scummy here that I see.

Post 22: Setael makes a post about Emp that goes approximately like so: Emp why did you claim Ice as scum at the start then not follow through? Mongoose just coasted through and played terribly, Emp didn't give reasons in his scumscale post then gave "gut" as a reason for being most suspicious of Nameless, Emp put neko Ice and Nameless on his scumlist and I like that because thats who I think is scum. If Emp is scum I am doing horribly. Emp listed q21 as town which I thought was wrong, q21 did terrible. I think it's wierd that Emp thinks my slot is town from q21's posts and I find myself agreeing with him because of it, except that he could know I am town because he is scum. I would prefer an Ice lynch with Empking coming in second.
Emp responded like so: Gut and proper analysis are two different ways of analysing posts, gut is more accurate for me. +1/2 for not at least bringing this up sooner.

Post 23: Set says Emp should say more stuff and asks the questions: Why did you think Ice was scummy at the start? What do you think of my case on Ice? What about his defense? Why do you think q21 is town?



(Other stuff noticed during read-through: Saint never stopped being scummy, and is currently lurking to avoid suspicion. Saint also somehow claimed VT out of nowhere without many people commenting on it.
Pie made a scum-list at one point, and in the same post said my "bandwagon-hopping is setting off tons of alarms now." Then he votes Empking entirely because of his predeccesor. Afterwards he claims this is not the case and that Emp is "not setting off town bells in my head" but does not say he is scummy, which is contradictory. Suspicious.)
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Post Post #438 (isolation #49) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:51 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:Has anybody notyiced that King's last post can be boiled down to "I'm posting lots of words to pretend not to be scum." Let's pick three arbritary posts.
Post 21: Pie says he wants Empking lynched. Emp's post is responding to Setael's post, nothing really scummy here that I see.
Post 23: Set says Emp should say more stuff and asks the questions: Why did you think Ice was scummy at the start? What do you think of my case on Ice? What about his defense? Why do you think q21 is town?
Post 15: I say it does stifle debate and give an example, then point out that faulty arguments could get town killed and should be considered scummy. (since scum wants town killed.) I ask how it takes scum out of their comfort zone and mention that knowing the reasoning behind votes is important for determening their alignment.
These
1. They're not about my posts! He needs to ignore my posts in his PBPA of me!!! That's how much he can't pretend I'm scum.
2. IIOA

(You might be like "What about the rest of the post?" Those three quote revealed, without controversity, that he's just after trying to look good.)

And let's see a typical argument:
and because people who arn't me and him are talking about other things, which is false, the last 5 posts are only ours,
Do I need to explain why thing is LOL scum grasping?

Also, why is King making this case?

1. He's town and thinks I'm scum? Can't be. Its a given that if I'm scum I'll be lynched tommorrow. So he's just wasting his time.
2. He's scum and either wants me to claim my partner or get lynched? Yeah, this makes sense.
3. He's scum and wants to look like he's contributing? Also logical.

King: Any explaination I'm misssing?
1. Those quotes are clearly not arbitrary, you took one of the few posts I said there was nothing scummy about, the ending thing that I hadn't even finished yet, and the last one is you just taking me explaining what is currently going on at the time of your post and ignoring the entire part that is actually
analysing
the post.
2. My thing has literally everything about your posts in this game and people's response to them, with little numbers for everything you've done that is scummy.
3. I list everything you did that I thought scummy and even give them little rankings for how scummy I think they are, how could that possibly be IIoA?
4. There is clearly going to be controversy about this claim. To think otherwise is foolhardy.
5. Typical argument would be me saying "still hasn't explained his reads, +1,""Ignores it, +1." I'm pretty sure you're just taking the easiest things to attack and attacking them only, whilst trying to paint the entire thing as like that. I gave that a +5 the last time you did it.
6. Yes, you do.
7. You have done so many scummy things that you've gotten away with a bunch of them just because people are to busy accusing you of the other things, and you're ability to completly ignore things you don't like is rather amazing. I wanted EVERYTHING scummy you've done to be on the table, not just the more obvious stuff or the things you actually respond to.
8. See point seven.

Oh, and since nobodies pointed it out yet, Empkings at L-1.
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Post Post #439 (isolation #50) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:54 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Oh yeah, and for Emp's number item 1. in his list, what exactly makes it so that you will be for sure lynched tommorow if you're scum? Also not lynched today?
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Post Post #441 (isolation #51) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:So the reason you are making these posts is 2 and 3? Good to know.

People's alignments aren't found when they're at to top of the game its found when people are scrambling for IIOA, laughable arguments in order to pad their posts and try and look town.

Oh yeah and for people thinking his post suggests town reading the game in a pro-town mind set. According to King the scummiest thing I've done was contradict myself. So yeah, if that's not scum just looking at the surface rather than thinking for two seconds then I'm not sure what is.
1. :roll: Utterly useless accusation.
2. "People's alignments aren't found when they're at to top of the game" I don't know what you are saying here. The grammer is to bad.
3. Speaking of laughable arguments, you haven't actually countered my argument, you are just making the laughable argument that the whole thing contains no analysis, whilst ignoring my comments.
4. Your contradiction was thus:
Empking wrote:
DarthYoshi wrote:Empking--why is it important to inform everyone of all your reads, as opposed to, say, just your scumreads? And, why gut when you have over 250 posts of material to analyze? And, why are your definitive reads definitive to you?
1. Because I've just replaced in.
2.
In depth analysis is just a way to feel confident in your fallacy filled reads.

3. Because they're ridiculously obvious.

FOS: King
- Ignoring my question, jumping on the Empking wagon rather than scumhunting, "Empking should have noticed the like 10 posts of people saying not to post the list of scum stuff and then not done what he did." which is just so filled with scumminess I'm not sure where to begin.
Empking wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Nameless
There you go with the not explaining your votes thing again. And not responding to my posts.
Why is this post scummy?
1. IIoA
2. Refusing to put him out there.
3.
No analysis

4. Trying to throw mud at a player for things that are a null tell at worst.
1. My analysis is that you should actually explain why you are doing things, instead of just moving your votes around wily-nilly with no justification.
2. I have no idea what that means.
3. This point is the same as point 1.
4. Not explaining your votes and refusal to answer questions about it even when called on it are null tells?
1. That's not analysis.
2. "Refusing to put himself out there" then.
3.
"Not thinking about the game in depth" then.

4. No its clearly a town tell, that's what the "at worst" is there for.
One of the most scummy things you've done is repeatedly refuse to answer questions about your vote on Nameless, instead simply claiming "gut". Right there you say the reason you did so is that in-depth analysis is useless. Later you use "not thinking about the game in depth" as part of your accusation against me, clearly showing you did not actually believe what you said. That seemed like it was worth 10 points.
4. The actual most scummy thing you've done is repeatedly ignoring things. All the time you ignore things. Like the entire content of my last two posts.
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Post Post #443 (isolation #52) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:11 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:Are you able to provide a town motivation for your recernty posts? Y/N?

(Thinking about the game in depth is completely different ftom in depth analysis.Thinking about the game in depth is "Dath Yoshi is an idiot but probably town" (i.e not taking the game at its surface)In depth analysis is "He didn't vote in his first two posts ego hurting the town ergo an anti-town action ergo he must be scum" So nice misrepresentation. )
...What? You...you just used an example that you yourself said for in-depth analysis. When you clearly earlier said that it was bad. You countered my argument...and at the same time admitted to a similiar but slightly different contradiction. I don't even know what to say about that.

Also, yes I am. Here's a few:
You still might not be lynched, so my giant wall could help kill a scum.
Having the entire reason for your scuminess down in one place makes it easier to see that you are scum, and explains my entire argument in one place instead of making people have to re-read the entire thread to understand it.
If you do turn out to be town then it helps to show how terrible all your arguments against me have been, so I don't get lynched because of them. And they have been terrible.
It will help your later play to know exactly why people think of you as scum.
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Post Post #447 (isolation #53) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:51 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
...What? You...you just used an example that you yourself said for in-depth analysis. When you clearly earlier said that it was bad. You countered my argument...and at the same time admitted to a similiar but slightly different contradiction. I don't even know what to say about that.
Er wrong. You're claimerd scum therefore dwelving into indepth analysis to you post carries with it no dangers.
What? If I understand this right then you are saying that in depth analysis is fine, but only if someone has admitted to being scum? Even though I didn't? And that if I HAD you should have just been able to point it out and get town to lynch me?
Empking wrote:
Having the entire reason for your scuminess down in one place makes it easier to see that you are scum, and explains my entire argument in one place instead of making people have to re-read the entire thread to understand it.
LOL. King's forgotten that he hasn't finished his wall (i.e it isn't all in one place.) Scummy, scummy liar.
:roll:
Calling me a scummy liar because I havn't finished something yet? And even if I do keep it in two places if I finish it it would still be far more convienient than looking back through the whole thread.
Empking wrote:
If you do turn out to be town then it helps to show how terrible all your arguments against me have been, so I don't get lynched because of them. And they have been terrible.
You're right I did forget that.

4. You're scum who can't argue with the message and as such is attacking the messager. (As we're all aware, town would trust in their innocence rather than going down to usde scum tactics.)
Attacking the messanger? You mean Adhominem? I could have sworn this whole time that I've been giving actual reasons for my posts (You know, those reasons you've been ignoring) and why yours are bad and not ever sucumbing to the temptation of insulting you.
Empking wrote:
It will help your later play to know exactly why people think of you as scum.
:roll:
You do realise how bad you are playing, right? You are at L-1 with a mason claim even though it is apparently a terrible idea to kill a claimed mason day 1. Thats how scummy you are being.
On that note I would like to point out that you completly ignored the original reason I gave for posting the wall: "I wanted EVERYTHING scummy you've done to be on the table, not just the more obvious stuff or the things you actually respond to." Its extra relevent 'cause you once again ignored huge portions of my posts.
ICEninja wrote:...
That being said, we can't let Emp live more than a day or two anyway, so he'll be lynched soon. If Emp is a mason, then his buddy will be more inclined to save him when he isn't so close to a deadline lynch. Lynching him today is just the inferior option all around.
...
If we arn't lynching Emp because of his mason claim, then In the spirit of actually playing the game well I would like to say that the other people I suspect are Saint and Pie.
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Post Post #449 (isolation #54) » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:01 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

ICEninja wrote:...
Whats your reasoning for Pie?
...
Pie made one of those scum-lists everyone has said not to make, but the main reason is thus:
*looks at OP* Oh look, mongoose is Empking. Okay.

UNVOTE: ICEninja
VOTE: Empking
...
I don't have a solid townread on Empking based on only his posts, either. So it's not like I'm voting Emp just because he's Emp (or because he's mongoose's replacement), but this realization doesn't exactly make me hesitate to vote him.
...
He says he's not doing it just 'cause he's mongoose's replacement, he's doing it because...he doesn't have a solid read on him, and he's mongoose's replacement.
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Post Post #452 (isolation #55) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:52 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Guh, I'm not gonna quote that.
The motive is that you are repeatedly attacking me for anything and everything you can, and ignore at least half of my responses in order to continue to falsely attack me. I tend to try and counter incorrect arguments by pointing out how incorrect they are,
especially
if they are attacking me.
Misrep. Attacking the messenger is exactly this. I've explained why you can't not ber scum. But rather than asrgue with that you're instead trying to sully my reputation by trying to pretend I'm overwhelmingly.
Like this right here is ignoring that I've already explained pretty much every single thing you've accused me of, and why each of them is wrong. You just ignore my arguments in favor of claiming that "it's to rhetorical" or "King is just gloating" or some pointless drivel like that, as if just saying that actually counters my argument.

TL:DR, I posted that to show how many times you ignored my counters to your argument in order to continue to attack me, or just made up a horrible "reason" in the first place.
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Post Post #460 (isolation #56) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:30 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:OK. When you claimed to not be scumhunting and was just active lurking in order to trick the town into believing you were town. Where's your counterargument to that?
Here it is I believe. If you were talking about something else please mention it, but this is the part that counters your supposed "He admitted to not scumhunting" thing.
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:...
As previously stated, I only brought that thing up as a possible thing you could be talking about because I wasn't sure what you were talking about. The attitude thing had two posts about it and the second was immediatly after the first and did nothing but clarify why I hated that reasoning so much.
The reasoning being that you are right because you just are. The whole thing was me saying that that attitude and the actions and "reasoning" that result from it shove any and all debate straight into the ground and that you had better not be using those actions and reasoning to try and justify yourself, because no, that is not how it works. AT ALL. EVER. You have to give
actual
reasons other than "because its true" if you want people to believe you. Or be able to debate with you. Or say that you are right. Or really do anything at all.

To be more specific and helpful and whatnot I shall spell it out: the reason I made that big seperate thing calling the attitude terrible and useless is because I DESPISE that attitude. Otherwise I would have just made a single little point like: "Thats not how it works" or "Try giving a real explanation instead of just saying that you're right" or something like that. The reason I made the huge thing that could make that qualify as a seperate argument is because I so severly dislike everything there is about that attitude. Everything.
For bonus points, here is your (non)response to it.
Empking wrote:...
Or to put it into less passionate terms. "I was active lurking because I'm scum."
Or to put that one in more clear terms: "I don't know how to attack this so I'll just call it scummy and not give any reasons."

Heres the second answer: "7. You have done so many scummy things that you've gotten away with a bunch of them just because people are to busy accusing you of the other things, and you're ability to completly ignore things you don't like is rather amazing.
I wanted EVERYTHING scummy you've done to be on the table, not just the more obvious stuff or the things you actually respond to."

and here are some more: "You still might not be lynched, so my giant wall could help kill a scum.
Having the entire reason for your scuminess down in one place makes it easier to see that you are scum, and explains my entire argument in one place instead of making people have to re-read the entire thread to understand it.

If you do turn out to be town then it helps to show how terrible all your arguments against me have been, so I don't get lynched because of them.
And they have been terrible.
It will help your later play to know exactly why people think of you as scum."

Come to think of it, the second bolded works just as well if you are scum and don't die as it does if you are town and do die.
The bolded are more important than the underlined one, which is more important than the rest.
Empking wrote:...
Can you show anywhere YOU or mongoose breadcrumbed that wouldn't out your partner?
I'm afraid I cannot.
What? Why would you breadcrum? Scum have several people who can read over the thread for those breadcrums, and if any of them find them then your partner is gonna die. Its like all of the negatives with only one of the positives.
Empking wrote:...
(I know that 1. I'll be nightkilled 2. When it comes down to it I can claim my partner. Scum know neither of those reasons.)
...
Why would you be nightkilled? Scum are probably going to just let you live and try to get town to mislynch you, or just attempt to off your partner. Also, you just told scum those reasons. Also, Also, this assumes that you are town and not a scum desperatly trying to get at least one mislynch out before he dies, a possibility I already pointed out. (I still don't understand what your counter to it was actually about, since you just insulted my intelligence instead of answering the second question.)
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Post Post #466 (isolation #57) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:55 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:...
A question for all (especially those voting Emp)--If Emp is indeed a mason and his partner were to claim, do you believe we will be able to agree on another lynch before deadline? At the moment, I don't see any clear direction that this would go except for a no-lynch or a hasty scramble for an alternative lynch.
...
Saint was at L-2 a while back, wasn't he? We might be able to lynch him.
Empking wrote:There is no motive for scum to claim mason. Scum would rather draw the lynch today rather than allow us the chance to lynch
his buddy
today.
Buddy, singular? Not buddies?
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Post Post #470 (isolation #58) » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:24 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:There are 3 votes on nameless if I'm not mistaken. Anyone care to weigh in about him?
...
I have a bit of a scummy read on him (coin-flips for voting are bad) but I would not be comfortable lynching him at this time.

...re-reading the earlier posts in this thread makes me realise how much my argument with Emp derailed everything productive. :(
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Post Post #477 (isolation #59) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:15 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

@Empking: I've already given a scum motivation to delay their own lynch like, three times.
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Post Post #484 (isolation #60) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:05 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

*sigh* The reason is an attempt to get some mislynches off before the scum dies. I've given this reason multiple times to counter your claim that there is no scum motivation to claim Mason. Your "town not giving full reasons" as a reason Nameless is scummy is horribly hypocritical. Also, please at least re-read your post once for obvious grammer/spelling/parenthesis in the middle that makes no sense problems.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #61) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:08 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:...
Your "town not giving full reasons" as a reason Nameless is scummy is horribly hypocritical. .
When did I say that?
Empking wrote:
but I don’t get how, say, his wall on the town v Saint is scum trying to mislead.
It tries to make Saint look scummier than he is with his ignorance on why people are voting him) by presenting all the arguments against Saint in an easy to see form
despit the large numbers of town members (and its the scum's tactic of choice) that are almost deliberately (or actually deliberately in Nameless and King's case) obscuring their point.
And who freaking cares about town accuracy? It has absolutely nothing to do with scum desperately attempting to gain a mislynch or two before they die. Like, literally irrelevant to the discussion.
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Post Post #489 (isolation #62) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:26 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:This is so obvious scum it hurts.

"Town's accuracy is irrelevant to whether or not town will correctly lynch or not."

You realize that when WOMC's replacement comes you'll be caught out, right?
Misrep, I sad it had nothing to do with scum motivation for
attempting
to get a mislynch. You are ignoring that there is even a
possibility
for scum to do so by saying that it would be unlikely to succeed. Although since its seems pretty obvious that neither I nor Nameless will be lynched today it seems like you are correct in your assessment that it will fail. Also, what does WOMC being replaced have to do with me being "caught out"?
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Post Post #494 (isolation #63) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:32 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:This is just nonsensical. It doesn't matter if we hit scum day 1 or day 2. The scum doesn't benefit if they manage to mislynch day one if they guarantee getting lynched Day 2.
They do if they were gonna get lynched day 1 anyway. And considering we are using you as the scum in this example and you are at L-1...

:roll: To your other comment, and the implications that you think everyone playing here but you and the "scum" are being stupid.

@Setael: If the time
does
get extended I
might
change my vote back to Saint for a bit to see if people want to lynch him, but I say we should wait 'till
after
we are sure it will be extended to do stuff like that.
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Post Post #499 (isolation #64) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:58 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:No because we're back to that "Town will be more accurate today than tommorrow"
And I'm back to saying that that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. If town is gonna kill the scum ANYWAY, then the scum desperately claims to try and get them to off a townie or two before he dies. Dying early conveys absolutely no benefit to the scum, because if he dies he isn't there to help mislynch townies, and for every day he can do that scum is more likely to win. ADDITIONALLY, the longer he lives knowing he is eventually gonna die and flip because of his false claim the more time he has to screw around with scumbuddy reads.
Setael wrote:@1216: Many players are active enough that a new wagon is completely feasible. What stops it is people like you refusing to comment on it or even consider it. What do YOU think of mb's recent play?
I think he's right that my argument with Emp kinda distracted the entire town from everything, but he has thought that for a while; he should have done stuff so town has more to comment on.
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Post Post #504 (isolation #65) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:21 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

mb53 wrote:...
You guys are all impossible to read (that means null reads on everyone but implosion saint and emp)
I agree, I only have two town reads and one of them is me. >_>

Well, 'cause of Ice's post I ISOed implosion then read a couple of the early posts again and a bit of some other ISOes and this is what I got to show for it:
implosion wrote:...
I've seen the case. It doesn't really convince me. I'm not going to go through and defend Saint, that's his job.
...
There's no reason why a member of the mafia would be more likely to act the way Saint is than a member of the town, IMO.
Why are you asking me to defend him? I think he's town, not particularly strongly, so why should I go out of my way to defend him?
...
Underlined I believe you will find implosion defending Saint.
Oh, and disregarding the underlined part the rest of this post goes out of its way to not defend Saint, even though implosion has only been asked to give the reasons why the arguments against Saint are bad.

Other than the original "end RVS" vote thing and this I don't see anything too scummy in implosion's ISO other than not posting too much...
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:
Zdenek wrote:I'm a bit surprised that Implosion's vote on mongoose for distancing wasn't a joke.

I am not buying WOMC's "trap" argument, and I think
WOMC wrote: I would also call silavor scum, but his last point was quite good about implosion/mb53.
is ridiculous, since all silavor did was explain why implosion accused mongoose of distancing.
That was me not reading the thread correctly. Whoops.
You know WoMC never fully explained this, he just said he was skimming the thread and not what he made the mistake about.
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:
neko2086 wrote:...
Now all in this post we have fluff, stating the obvious, saying the same thing in different words, repeating oneself almost exactly, fence-sitting, and an acceptable last paragraph. Could join a wagon here as well.
He never fully explained this either, and I read the linked thing and it was nothing like the "current" post. (Current as of WoMC's original posting) To say it was "repeating oneself almost exactly" is a total exaggeration.
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:...
ICEninja wrote:
neko wrote: I highly suspect ICEninja of causing the storm that has shut everything down. If my power goes out, I'm coming after you. (I shouldn't have to, but I better specify that this is a joke). Congrats on getting a job--that's not easy to do right now.
I've been so excited the past few days, I wouldn't be surprised if my leaping for joy has caused some kind of meteorological disturbance. And thank you, I gave the interview of a lifetime to get it.

Alright, I wasn't feeling too harshly about Mongoose simply based on 64, but after he got a lot of people suspecting him, he then goes and takes his vote off Q21 without comment, save that he had no reason to be voting him at all, and then put his vote on Weapons right after, as an "oops I forgot". That clearly states to me that his main purpose of posting was to unvote, and that voting was a secondary purpose. Having voting as a secondary purpose reads to me as doing so for appearance purposes and not because of genuine suspicion.

This is compounded by how he had literally
nothing
to add to the case against Weapons. This is really bad.
But you don't seem to think putting mongoose and me on the same scum team logistically makes sense, do you?
What the heck is this about? :neutral:
WeaponsofMassConstruction wrote:1. Fluff
2. Stating the obvious

I could go on if you'd like. Your wishy-washyness stems not from staying neutral, but for stretching posting for both sides when you could just say you're neutral.
He never fully answered my question about this either. Tch, now I'm annoyed that I only noticed this stuff right as he is about to replace out. Maybe I'll get lucky and he'll post in thread and answer all these questions. Including the ones I didn't include here.
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Post Post #511 (isolation #66) » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:51 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Well, like I said:
UNVOTE
VOTE: Saint
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Post Post #518 (isolation #67) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:49 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:*sigh* The reason is an attempt to get some mislynches off before the scum dies.
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Well, like I said:
UNVOTE
VOTE: Saint
You see what I did there?
Yes, you used two quotes out of context to attack me, without giving any reason why I am scum.
Saint wrote:I'm still convinced on implosion/mb53, and am going to consider KingTwelveSixteen to actually be a village idiot until further notice
vote: MB53
What the heck? This is the first time you've ever mentioned me outside of two posts defending your predeccesor and you didn't even give an actual
reason
for this stuff. So I'm just gonna say OMGUS.
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Post Post #523 (isolation #68) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:33 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
mb53 wrote:...
You guys are all impossible to read (that means null reads on everyone but implosion saint and emp)
I agree, I only have two town reads and one of them is me.
You're both full of crap. There's tons of content. How about starting to scum hunt instead of hiding behind this excuse?

King, what do you think about mb's play? Maybe stop tunneling and look at some of the other options.
How about you look at my posts for things about people other than Emp before you claim I'm tunneling? My read on mb is neutral.
Also, I merely put that up as only one person seems more townie than not to me. EVERYONE else has neutral-to-scum reads.
Setael wrote:I'll vote anyone to avoid a no lynch day 1. Anyone. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I don't think your argument for switching back to emp is reasonable right now, especially when the deadline might be extended. I think it's scummy to not be willing to consider anyone else at this point. If you think mb is scum, VOTE him. Right now it looks like you switching your vote from emp to implosion was just an attempt at gaining town points later when emp flips mason. Scummy.
This post is scummy: nowhere in that post do I see Yoshi say he thinks mb is scummy. I even read Yoshi's ISO and it seems he only has a neutral/neutral-scum read on mb. Also, Yoshi explictly said that he would likely be unable to check back in before the previous deadline as the reason why he switched back to Emp from implosion, since implosion didn't have enough votes to be lynched and almost certainly wasn't gonna get the 5 or so needed before the deadline ended and assuming the deadline will be extended is just
asking
for it. Double also, why are you acting like you already know, for sure, Emp's alignment?


@Saint: Still waiting for you to answer all those various accusations that were made way back when, or
at least
the strongest ones.
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Post Post #528 (isolation #69) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:When I said that about you ignoring everything else I was referring to your statement that you weren't going to pay attention to the thread again before deadline (or at least refuse to participate). That = ignoring everything.
Nameless wrote:This'll be my last post before the
(current)
deadline.
:neutral:
(I wish there was a more skeptical eyebrow rising smiley)
From my reading of the timestamps your post claiming he wasn't going to post again until the new deadline happened exactly nine hours and one minute after the deadline was extended. That seems a little too early to be claiming that Nameless isn't going to post anymore.
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Post Post #533 (isolation #70) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:05 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:...
All (especially those voting Saint): I still feel strongly that an mb lynch is better than a Saint lynch. See my previous post, and if you disagree, please state why.
Saint is ignoring all the arguments against him, he buddied like crazy early game, he lurked a bunch, his predeccesors play was bad, he went out of his way to say his predeccesors play
wasn't
bad (even though it was), most of his accusations have been bad, he ignores the criticism of those accusations, and this is how he defends himself from one of the few things he did notice:
Saint wrote:MB's 524 is blatant OMGUS
Saint wrote:
mb53 wrote:
Mb, lot has happened--and you don't have much to add with any of your contributions? Why are you trying to coast by rather than help scumhunt?
Actually, I don't think that that much has happened. Its mostly been back and forth between king and emp, and then some accusations of other players that I said I will look into today, ASAP.

Also, I still think saint is scum.
You have only been calling me scum since I put you on my shortlist with Implosion, to be quite honest

OMGUS.
Saint wrote:
mb53 wrote:
A quick scan of his ISO shows that on his 5th, he voted for over9000, and never moved his vote from the slot. I agree that the slot is scummy, but I'm not seeing much from you about any other player slots.
As stated before, my 9000 vote was mainly an attempt to get content, but now I do in fact find Saint scummy, and my vote isn't there to pressure into content.

As for other player slots.... I'm having difficulty getting any reads. Most of you are null. Implosion is leaning scum now (at least until I hear his defense). Some slight town reads too, but you all are a tough bunch to read...
you're keeping your vote because I know you are scum with implosion
nice try to make it not appear like it's anything else, liar
Giving no actual counter or reasoning or anything, just repeats that its OMGUS.

And this is a new post that is just plain bad that was made whilst I was typing this up:
Saint wrote:I guess people want to mislynch because I'm not wallposting as a townie
go ahead and lynch me, i'm not a doctor or anything
1. That has nothing to do with why we are suspicious of you, try reading the accusations. In fact, I'm the only one who brought it up and I flat out said I only brought it up because it annoys me.
2. I don't like how you specifically refer to it as a mislynch.
3. "Go ahead and lynch me" is not what a townie should say.
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Post Post #534 (isolation #71) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:08 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:However, I find Neko defending my wagon to be the more likelier scum
just sayin'
Wait,
what?
I only noticed this after I finished my post but neko was saying that you were the
inferior
lynch today. Did you even read his post? This is a complete misrep.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #72) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Saint wrote:However, I find Neko defending my wagon to be the more likelier scum
just sayin'
Wait,
what?
I only noticed this after I finished my post but neko was saying that you were the
inferior
lynch today. Did you even read his post? This is a complete misrep.
yeah, he's defending me against my wagon
what more is there to be confused on?
how was i misrepping him defending me?
"defending my wagon" means that he is defending the wagon, not defending you from the wagon. That would be "defending me from my wagon"
Saint wrote:@king
it is a mislynch, so I will call it a mislynch
i don't care how you believe a townie should play, i can only play the way i know how to as a townie, which is to stay out of the spotlight until you need to defend yourself
So you don't plan on being helpful or scumhunting then? You're just trying to live for as long as possible?
Oh, and "go ahead and lynch me" isn't defending yourself. It's saying that you are fine with being killed. :?
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Post Post #543 (isolation #73) » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:45 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Huh? Out power roles? Avoiding death is almost always proper play, its just that its a secondary thing next to your main goal as town/scum... :neutral:
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Post Post #548 (isolation #74) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:19 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Nameless
- Compromise.

I think Saint is almost certainly town (I mean look at the wagon on him. Just look at it.) Which meansd when it comers down to it I'd much prefer an mb lynch.
Compromising with one guy is barely a compromise, an actual compromise would have you voting for someone a couple other people are actually suspicious of, not just one of the people you arbitrarily declared scum. Your refusal to vote Saint because of who is voting for him is also noted, as well as stupid since we don't even know if there are two scum-teams or not.
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Post Post #552 (isolation #75) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:39 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:...
asks Saint to answer to his accusations (if he's scum, you want to to give him a chance to talk his way out of it?)
...
What? Are you saying we
shouldn't
ask people to answer accusations, we should just lynch them without letting them respond?
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Post Post #562 (isolation #76) » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:32 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

implosion wrote:Sorry, I'm really stressed right now >.>. I think mb is more likely to flip scum than Saint based on recent posts. Ergo,

Unvote, Vote: mb


If I have time tomorrow I'll do something more thorough. I probably won't though.
Which recent posts? Saint's? mb's? :neutral:
And you probably won't do anything more thorough then this? This post isn't very thorough.
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Post Post #568 (isolation #77) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:52 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:It's my birthday, but I'm not going to AtE
I would like for you all to lynch someone else, but like i've said, I'm just a townie.
That is totally AtE.
DarthYoshi wrote:@Mb53, Saint, Neko, Nameless, and IP: All of you (and maybe KTS as well, with that last post) in the last few pages or so have expressed some level of suspicion about Implosion. Do all of you feel strongly enough about your Saint/Mb votes to not want to consider forming a compromise Implosion bandwagon?

(And, for being the two most likely lynch candidates, Mb and Saint are both awfully silent right now.)
I probably would, but right now it doesn't seem like a good compromise, seeing as how Saint has 5 votes and implosion has 1.
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Post Post #573 (isolation #78) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:59 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

mb53 wrote:...
Question: Say it is an hour before deadline, and there are 6 votes on me... Would it be a good idea to self hammer to avoid a no-lynch (I would guess yes, but I want to check just in case...)?
...
At first glance I'm gonna haveta say
NOOOoooooo.
You are the only confirmed townie you know most of the time (if you are a townie :shifty: ) so self-hammering seems like pretty much a horrible idea.
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Post Post #580 (isolation #79) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:51 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:You're at L-1 mb. Time to claim.
Oh, snap. :o
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Setael wrote:I'll vote anyone to avoid a no lynch day 1. Anyone. I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I don't think your argument for switching back to emp is reasonable right now, especially when the deadline might be extended. I think it's scummy to not be willing to consider anyone else at this point. If you think mb is scum, VOTE him. Right now it looks like you switching your vote from emp to implosion was just an attempt at gaining town points later when emp flips mason. Scummy.
This post is scummy: nowhere in that post do I see Yoshi say he thinks mb is scummy. I even read Yoshi's ISO and it seems he only has a neutral/neutral-scum read on mb. Also, Yoshi explictly said that he would likely be unable to check back in before the previous deadline as the reason why he switched back to Emp from implosion, since implosion didn't have enough votes to be lynched and almost certainly wasn't gonna get the 5 or so needed before the deadline ended and assuming the deadline will be extended is just
asking
for it. Double also, why are you acting like you already know, for sure, Emp's alignment?
...
DarthYoshi wrote:@Setael: I basically telegraphed my #503 in my #480—I said I would re-cast my vote closer to the deadline in order to avoid a no-lynch, and you didn’t seem to have a problem with it then. Assume my re-vote was scummy—why would scum be like, “Hi everyone, I’m gonna do something really scummy in a few hours! Make sure you watch!” In any case, I believe that it was irresponsible to act as though we will be getting an extension without it being set in stone, and so not re-voting would have been deliberately risking a no-lynch on D1.
...
You know, Setael never responded to this. Hows about you do that Setael?
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Post Post #591 (isolation #80) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:52 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nexus wrote:
...
Deadline is in 11 and a half hours. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. mb53 is at L-1.
Ah, jeez. Deadlines comin' up quick, this time for sure. I think I'll be able to switch to a hammer vote before this day ends if I have to, since I'm planning on waking up at like 6-o-early in the morning tommorow.
Nameless wrote:Let's see. Mb53's wagon sprung up out of nowhere the moment there was a chance to avoid Empking's lynch. (Compare, _over9000/Saint being justifiably attacked several times before now.) The accusations against mb53 are valid, but limited to a few obviously lackluster posts. (Compare, Saint's complete lack of sensible contributions in the last week, unfulfilled promises of a dedicated catchup post, and ignorance of any accusations against him ...) Identifiably scummy players like implosion are jumping on mb53 without much explanation. (Compare, the entire wall of accusations and plenty more since predating Saint's wagon.)

I'll call it: Saint is scum, mb53 is town, and the scumteam are pushing the heck out of his wagon to prevent themselves from losing a member.
Eh, I'm feeling a bit wary of the wagon as well (it popped up real quick,) but not nearly enough to "call it" anything yet. In fact I find this calling slightly suspicious.
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Post Post #592 (isolation #81) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:54 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nexus wrote:
...
Deadline is in 11 and a half hours. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch. mb53 is at L-1.
Wait. You say 11.5 hours, and you posted at aproximately 8 PM. The thread title says the deadline is tommorow at noon, aproximately 16 hours from your post. Please clarify.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #82) » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:56 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Wait again, is 12 PM noon or midnight. For some reason I can't remember. :(
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Post Post #605 (isolation #83) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:07 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

VOTE: Saint

You really thing you have to mention that people who have a confirmed guilty should say so? That seems like a pretty obvious thing to do to me.
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Post Post #616 (isolation #84) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:50 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:...
and the fact that I called that parking your vote on a claimed Mason.
...
:roll:
He parked his vote on the only guy close enough to a lynch at the time for it to go through before the deadline hit. Preventing a no lynch isn't scummy.
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Post Post #618 (isolation #85) » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:42 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nameless wrote:KTS, why do you keep defending me?
Because I defended you before for that silly argument and he ignored it. Plus I think you is town-like.
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Post Post #631 (isolation #86) » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:59 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Swiftstrike wrote:Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain
I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,
which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.
because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?
...
I concur with this question, and I also throw in some suspicion of scumbuddyness on Ice/Emp.
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Post Post #639 (isolation #87) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:54 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Empking wrote:I think one of Saint and Nameless needs to be the lynch today. They're both being very scummy but it certainally does not feel like bussing. I'd like a Nameless lynch because not only is he the scummiest but his flip give a larger amount of information
with regards to King.
:roll:
@Saint: Your post is terrible, for all the reasons that have already been listed and likely several more. For instance, saying that other people don't see you at town because they are bad at the game? Yeah, no.
Saint wrote:...
I knew there would be a wagon on me, so I tried to be protown, but I guess you guys don't know what that really means.
This part in particular is just
terrible.
You only
tried
to be pro-town because you thought you were gonna be lynched? As in, if nobody had put pressure on you you wouldn't have even
attempted
to be pro-town? And then you say that town is just made of bad players as the reason that people are pushing you.
Saint wrote:
ICEninja wrote:Alright I reread nameless. He's pretty town. And he's probably right about Saint (who I believe is a likely scum buddy with implosion). I'm definitely not going to be voting Nameless today unless there is some significant information I missed. He was dead right about the mb wagon that sprung up. Sure mb wasn't the most town player, but he wasn't implosion.

Both Saint and implosion were on the mb wagon. He was the easiest non Saint/implosion person for scum to wagon, so this further supports my theory.
OK
this guy is namelesses partner
Why?
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Post Post #647 (isolation #88) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:45 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:...
ICE wrote: This thread needs more
implosion
, Emp, and Zdenek. And votes for Saint.
Why did you leave
Implosion
off the list?
Um, what?
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Post Post #665 (isolation #89) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:07 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:Mongoose wasn't lurking, based upon my replacing in and catching up. The person I replaced into was lurking/inactive, however, but I did my best to clear that up.
Saint wrote:The "joke" was to the one you said I didn't respond to

Just because someone shares my reads, doesnt mean I'm buddying them-
q.e.d. .... ha

however,
unvote

i liked that post
Saint wrote:swiftstrike's iso #5 is pretty convincing as a slip
vote: zdenek


sad that I was "buddying" this guy, nameless
I like how you don't include any way to tell what posts you are responding to except for the one where you are voting based off of it. That way, town has to specifically take the time to look back and try to find the posts accusing you in order to see if your defense is adequete and responds to the posts against you, but
everyone
will know that your vote has most definantly non-scum motivations behind it.
yep.
:igmeou:
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Post Post #692 (isolation #90) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:41 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Saint wrote:#664, if i was on a scumteam with empking, why the fuck did I push a case on him at the start of today...?
I'm ignoring you, mainly, nameless, because your tunneling is anti-town. It would be like, having a crying baby that you give a treat to. No. You spank it.
Because he is gonna die anyway and bussing him might give you town points of course.
Comparing nameless to a crying baby? Wow, thats not insulting
at all.
Saint wrote:
Zdenek wrote:I'd hoped to have time to make a post today, but it doesn't look like I will have a chance.

Mod and everyone: I will be V/LA until Sunday


I apologize for these frequent absences. I've been traveling a lot these past three weeks, but my schedule will calm down after this week.
scum lurking imo
He could just be V/LA.
Saint wrote:
ICEninja wrote:-cut-
no I don't "know" Saint is town. I think he's scum. I've been wrong before, and it will happen again, but I think he's scum. Also, believe me when I say I suck as scum. I really am scum hunting here.
"he's scum, but I will be wrong again"
see this disclaimer?
It's like saying, hey, guys, lynch this guy... even if I'm usually wrong about who I lynch, or my reads... when in fact, he probably DOES know I'm town. I don't see why I had a town read on this guy.

Although Zdenek isn't getting off his ass to do something productive, we will get to see IceNinja flip scum. It is better to lynch the more active scum than the inactive.

unvote: Zdenek

VOTE: IceNinja
Votehopping, of course he will be wrong again if he was perfect there would be no point to all of this discussion we could just sheep the guy who is perfect, he didn't say he was usually wrong, you manage to ignore the part of the quote I find suspicious, IE: "I suck as scum, I really am scum hunting here," unneccesarily restating that you are town, instantly changing from town to scum because he thinks you are scummy, overconfidence in IceNinja being scum with little case, and I think inactive scum would be better to kill than active, since active has more chance of slipping up.

There, I think that is everything thats wrong with this particular post.
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Post Post #693 (isolation #91) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:43 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Oh, and Emps right. Saint inexplicably claimed VT under no pressure day 1. I actually meant to put that in my post but somehow managed not to.
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Post Post #695 (isolation #92) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:59 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:No, Neil did. Saint hasn't claimed.
Did to. Hold on, I'll ISO and quote it.
Saint wrote:
@IPie's 321
:
I am for mass-claiming, however, we may out our power roles.
I am just a VT.
...
There ya go.
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Post Post #705 (isolation #93) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:31 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

If you are town... :evil:
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Post Post #708 (isolation #94) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:58 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Crap.
Vote: Empking

Because if we mislynch and then have another townie die during the night tommorow will be lylo (with a 3 person scum team) and we all said we were gonna off him later.
Gonna ISO Ice and see if he left breadcrumbs or something about who he investigated.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #95) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:25 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

...Well, I think his constant mentioning of the cop role constitutes breadcrumming cop, but I don't see anything that makes it seem like he breadcrumbed any N1 results, except that he probably investigated Empking...but I can't tell if he got a scum or town alignment or what. things like this:
...
If we're confused day 3, he might be a good lynch assuming no one clears him.
...
Unless Empking gets cleared as town (by cop or mason buddy or whatever) then we're going to lynch him before lylo, plain and simple. Should he end up cleared, then he'll be a very valuable asset to town (masons are some of the strongest PRs late game, save maybe a jail keeper) and will have to be NKed anyway. If not then he's scum and we're going to lynch him. We have time.
...
I'm still a bit worried about Empking, but if he's scum then he is guaranteed going to die before the game is over so he isn't a huge priority for me right now.
...
I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp, which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

Alternatively if he's scum, no one is going to be clearing him during day 3, as it is too early for scum to claim mason partner, as a cop investigate would result in netting us 2 scum. Therefore I feel it is pretty safe that we decide his fate during day 3.
...
Arn't that clear, but he does say he suspects empking so I'd put more on him getting emp-scum than emp-town...
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Post Post #718 (isolation #96) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:26 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:...
@KTS: Why are you voting a claimed mason without first asking his buddy to claim?
...
I thought it was kind of obvious that his buddy should claim if he has one and that I didn't need to mention it...

I also don't think he has one.
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Post Post #733 (isolation #97) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:17 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:...
Implosion wrote:
You also seem to have knowledge of the setup.
Who's to say that there's no masons or cop? You seem to be falling back on the "oh, well cop can clear him and his partner" idea. Well if they're real (as has been stated) it's somewhat likely that there is no cop; and if they're fake, there still is not necessarily a cop.

VOTE: ICEninja
Emphasis mine. Re-reading this, this vote is all kinds of awful. Tells aside, there’s likely no way for scum to know whether there is a cop in the setup—only a cop would know there is a cop in the setup. So what Implosion is claiming is a scum tell (knowing what town PRs are in the setup) would actually be a town PR tell…
and then he votes for ICE.

...
How suspicious.
I don't think ICE investigated implosion like has been mentioned though, he specifically stated that his reads on implosion and saint were from him scumhunting. "These are the reads that my scum hunting has gathered me."


@Empking: Oh hey, how is claiming mason partner with you anti-town?

Oh hey, ICE said this: "which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player," when refering to Emp as the non-townie player. :wink:
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Post Post #745 (isolation #98) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:18 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Thats a terrible case Empking. You should always point out when someone is at L-1 if nobody has done so yet, it is not indicative as scum to prevent early lynches without the person being lynched being able to defend himself.
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Post Post #766 (isolation #99) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:...
It sounds like you and KTS (and maybe Nameless, but he seems to genuinely think Emp is scum) mostly want to lynch Emp to verify his alignment as opposed to him being scummy. I’ve heard of towns policy lynching claimed millers before LyLo, but not claimed masons. If someone has, then please correct me, but I tend to be uneasy about policy lynches in general, but also so in a situation like this.

If there is a case to be made against Emp that is beyond simply to confirm whether or not he is a mason, I would probably be more sympathetic to an Emp lynch. But so far, that’s mostly what it feels like the discussion today has boiled down to. If you/KTS/Nameless have other reasons to lynch Emp, then convince me.
...
Man, all you gotta do is look back at day 1 for the huge amount of things he has done that I think are scummy. I have literally been supressing my urges to continue arguing with him and pointing out everything scummy he has been doing ever since I realised that I was just distracting the town with my giant cases against him.
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Post Post #780 (isolation #100) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:42 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:...
King, I've forgotten that you've made the same call for a lynch on emp as zdenek. Looking back you said we all agreed we'd kill him if he made it too far. Did we? I don't remember this.
Also, why hold back a scum case on someone you think is scum?
So he doesn't attack you again? Because it was no longer convenient? At any rate, why don't you make that list if all the scummy things he's done lately now?
...
I gave the reason I held back the case right there in my post. It was unnecessarily distracting the town.

A list of everything he has done scummy lately would primarily consist of every single post he has made so far day 3 with a couple of comments below them. I mean that literally. Every single post. I kind of expected the "I fakeclaimed mason and lied like crazy to stay alive this far" thing would be enough to lynch him without needing to do that...

OH HEY LOOK AT THE STUFF I FOUND ON REREAD.
Neko wrote:...
The exchange between King and Emp is really distracting.
...
2) Emp and King are dominating the discussion.
...
He's trying to show (albeit in a faulty way) that you are intentionally trying to distract the town.
...
Almost as if you knew my argument was just pointlessly distracting the town from the start but ignore that as a reason I wouldn't keep doing it in order to attack me.


It was mentioned several times - and disagreed with by nobody - that we should off Emp before LyLo as otherwise there would be all sorts of shenanigans.
ICEninja wrote:...
Unless Empking gets cleared as town (by cop or mason buddy or whatever) then we're going to lynch him before lylo, plain and simple.
...
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Post Post #784 (isolation #101) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:16 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Nameless wrote:KingTwelveSixteen: I notice that you haven't said much since D1 either. Other than Empking, who are your top suspects?
...
Setael, implosion, and neko.

hehe, just got this via ISO.
Setael wrote:Nameless took the wind out of my confidence about mb being scum. Looks way too much like nameless KNOWS mb is town and is setting up future mayhem based on that.
...
Setael wrote:Knowing mb was about to flip town, scum were likely motivated to stay off of mb's wagon, actually.
...
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Post Post #788 (isolation #102) » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:11 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
Nameless wrote:KingTwelveSixteen: I notice that you haven't said much since D1 either. Other than Empking, who are your top suspects?
...
Setael, implosion, and neko.

hehe, just got this via ISO.
Setael wrote:Nameless took the wind out of my confidence about mb being scum. Looks way too much like nameless KNOWS mb is town and is setting up future mayhem based on that.
...
Setael wrote:Knowing mb was about to flip town, scum were likely motivated to stay off of mb's wagon, actually.
...
I'm not sure I get your point. Care to elaborate?
In the first quote you distance yourself from the wagon and be all "He is gonna flip town, lets attack nameless for it tommorow" and in the second you talk about how the scum would distance themselves from the mb wagon because he was town.
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Post Post #799 (isolation #103) » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:27 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Yeah, nothing really is happening right now...
:/
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Post Post #807 (isolation #104) » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:36 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

I am a town read? I thought everyone thought of me as scummy. :neutral:

I agree about Yoshi = town, my other big town read was Nameless though.
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Post Post #816 (isolation #105) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:28 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

DarthYoshi wrote:@Implosion--I'd still like to hear what you think of KTS's play on D2/D3.

@KTS--have your scumreads changed at all from D3?
Everyone that isn't you gets something in the range of null to neutral-scum, no town reads, no strong scum reads.

It is so annoying.
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Post Post #817 (isolation #106) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:31 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

implosion wrote:...
There is probably one mafia in each of {KTS, [
nameless
], Darth Yoshi}
...
implosion wrote:...
Anyway... KTS is my biggest townread, followed by DarthYoshi. It's probably lylo, so no one vote yet (obviously).
...So, what prompted that change implosion?
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Post Post #818 (isolation #107) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:38 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

EBWOP(the first post, not the second): Er, wait. That post was stupid. I still am suspicious of neko, implosion, Setael, as well as Zdenek...neko is currently strongest scummy read.
How I forgot about neko "forgetting" that I had a reason not to clutter the thread with arguments against Emp and subsequent not-posting-ness I shall never know.
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Post Post #822 (isolation #108) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:12 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

neko2086 wrote:I hate to do this again, but I've been grading all day (woo spring break) and won't have time for a good post until tomorrow.

King-- I get that you didn't want to clutter the thread, but at the same time, if you felt so sure that Emp was scum, why abandon it completely? You were cluttering the thread by arguing with emp and not actually trying to engage the rest of us in a conversation about him. If you really thought he was scum, why not talk to us instead of him--he's not the one you needed to convince. That was my point.

Why is Yoshi your only town read?
Because, as I previously mentioned, it seemed like everyone agreed to let Empking live so that a cop could clear/confirm him as scum later on.

And he is my only town read because he is my only town read.
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Post Post #826 (isolation #109) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:59 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael you shouldn't have voted. Your evidence of Yoshi-scum is entirely from day 1 and you didn't even give him a chance to counter it before you voted, and you just flat out ignored his counter with your most recent post.
Setael wrote:I'm not worried about votes piling on you because I think your scum buddies will fight against your lynch. If you really thought I was scum, you'd vote me knowing it'd be extremely tough to pull off my lynch with my buddies highly motivated to mislynch today.
The only reason to NOT vote is if you actually think I'm town, in which case the worry that all the scum would jump on and mislynch me
.

Activity around here is minimal, and talking things out is no longer so helpful since almost half the living players are scum who can lead the town pretty easily. The best plan seems for me to choose the person I'm most confident is scum and stick with that. That happens to be you.
Underlined reasoning only works if Yoshi is a
townie
player, so your mindset is that he is a townie then? I know which one of you two I'm gonna vote for if Yoshi doesn't get quicklynched.

Also voting without giving anybody a chance to answer to your accusations is not the correct move in LyLo.
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Post Post #832 (isolation #110) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:12 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

I can't help but notice that both Setael and neko aren't actually responding to what I have accused them of in my posts.

Ho hum.
neko wrote:...
there is very little chance of scum attempting a quicklynch at this point.
...
Eh? Why WOULDN'T the scum want to quicklynch and win the game if they could?
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Post Post #836 (isolation #111) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:00 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Setael you shouldn't have voted. Your evidence of Yoshi-scum is entirely from day 1 and you didn't even give him a chance to counter it before you voted, and you just flat out ignored his counter with your most recent post.
Setael wrote:I'm not worried about votes piling on you because I think your scum buddies will fight against your lynch. If you really thought I was scum, you'd vote me knowing it'd be extremely tough to pull off my lynch with my buddies highly motivated to mislynch today.
The only reason to NOT vote is if you actually think I'm town, in which case the worry that all the scum would jump on and mislynch me
.

Activity around here is minimal, and talking things out is no longer so helpful since almost half the living players are scum who can lead the town pretty easily. The best plan seems for me to choose the person I'm most confident is scum and stick with that. That happens to be you.
Underlined reasoning only works if Yoshi is a
townie
player, so your mindset is that he is a townie then? I know which one of you two I'm gonna vote for if Yoshi doesn't get quicklynched.

Also voting without giving anybody a chance to answer to your accusations is not the correct move in LyLo.
You're right, I didn't think that through obviously. There's no reason for darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum.
...
...
What?

That was not even close to what my point was.
neko2086 wrote:King, I thought I addressed everything.
...
Here is the accusation:
KingTwelveSixteen wrote:
neko2086 wrote:...
King, I've forgotten that you've made the same call for a lynch on emp as zdenek. Looking back you said we all agreed we'd kill him if he made it too far. Did we? I don't remember this.
Also, why hold back a scum case on someone you think is scum?
So he doesn't attack you again? Because it was no longer convenient? At any rate, why don't you make that list if all the scummy things he's done lately now?
...
I gave the reason I held back the case right there in my post. It was unnecessarily distracting the town.

A list of everything he has done scummy lately would primarily consist of every single post he has made so far day 3 with a couple of comments below them. I mean that literally. Every single post. I kind of expected the "I fakeclaimed mason and lied like crazy to stay alive this far" thing would be enough to lynch him without needing to do that...

OH HEY LOOK AT THE STUFF I FOUND ON REREAD.
Neko wrote:...
The exchange between King and Emp is really distracting.
...
2) Emp and King are dominating the discussion.
...
He's trying to show (albeit in a faulty way) that you are intentionally trying to distract the town.
...
Almost as if you knew my argument was just pointlessly distracting the town from the start but ignore that as a reason I wouldn't keep doing it in order to attack me.

...
I underlined and bolded it.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #112) » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:16 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Swiftstrike wrote:...
With the likelyhood that we are now at lylo wouldn't now be the best time to see a role claim from everyone to see if there is any information out there that would better inform the town?
My role is still claimed, just like it has been from day 1...
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Post Post #846 (isolation #113) » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:56 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Well, I think Setael should claim first because of his early vote.
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Post Post #854 (isolation #114) » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:12 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Is that one-shot vigilante a night one or a day one Swift? From your post I think it is a night-version but I want to make sure.
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Post Post #871 (isolation #115) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:54 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:
KTS wrote: Well, I think Setael should claim first because of his early vote.
I held off on commenting because we were in the middle of a mass-claim, but this strikes me as scummy. It feels like he was looking to get the person who he thinks is most likely to be a power role to claim first.
...
What? Where did you get
that
from? :?
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Post Post #876 (isolation #116) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:24 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Zdenek wrote:...
KTS wrote: What? Where did you get that from?
Then please explain why Setael's early vote made you want him to claim first?
...
First off, you didn't answer the question.

Secondly: Because he
haphazardly voted,
in LyLo
on the person I have a big town read on.
Without giving time for him to respond. Using a poor case that is entirely from day 1. Also included in that same post he made a far more solid case on neko-scum (including the statement: "I don't see a possibility of this post being made by town"!) than his Yoshi-scum case
but he still voted for Yoshi
. All of that is suspicious.


Current scum-team suspicion: Setael, neko, Zdenek/implosion.
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Post Post #883 (isolation #117) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:49 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

KingTwelveSixteen wrote:Setael you shouldn't have voted. Your evidence of Yoshi-scum is entirely from day 1 and you didn't even give him a chance to counter it before you voted, and you just flat out ignored his counter with your most recent post.
Setael wrote:I'm not worried about votes piling on you because I think your scum buddies will fight against your lynch. If you really thought I was scum, you'd vote me knowing it'd be extremely tough to pull off my lynch with my buddies highly motivated to mislynch today.
The only reason to NOT vote is if you actually think I'm town, in which case the worry that all the scum would jump on and mislynch me
.

Activity around here is minimal, and talking things out is no longer so helpful since almost half the living players are scum who can lead the town pretty easily. The best plan seems for me to choose the person I'm most confident is scum and stick with that. That happens to be you.
Underlined reasoning only works if Yoshi is a
townie
player, so your mindset is that he is a townie then?
I know which one of you two I'm gonna vote for if Yoshi doesn't get quicklynched.


Also voting without giving anybody a chance to answer to your accusations is not the correct move in LyLo.
I thought it was obvious I thought that his vote was scummy. I underlined it in this quote.

If I had to choose between the two of them, I think Zdenek is the more likely town here, but I'm gonna wait a bit more (because its LyLo) before voting one of them.


Since it has been polled: At the end of the last day I actually thought that there was a one-shot daykill vig and a roleblocker in the set-up, since doc+cop is a crazy powerful combo and doc+cop+roleblocker with this amount of players is a bit unbalanced towards scum. I actually thought that Swift was either the day-kill vig or the roleblocker since he seemed to be trying to lay low, as it were, but his claim of one-shot night-kill vig totally messed that one-or-the-other thing I was thinking of.
...Should have mentioned that earlier.

@Setael: Here are some accusations for 'ya: Why did you vote for Yoshi when you claimed that you thought it was impossible that neko was town? Why did you vote without letting Yoshi give a counter? Why did you ignore the first accusation listed here when I made it last post? What the heck were you talking about with this: "You're right, I didn't think that through obviously. There's no reason for darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum." That was not even close to what I meant in the post you responded to.
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Post Post #887 (isolation #118) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:21 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:...
The mod's post made me realize that scum's best bet is actually to stall.
If they can get us to just talk until deadline without coming to a consensus, they win. This is clearly what they're doing with so little activity here. It would also make it much easier to pull off a mislynch if they can stall for a few days, because votes could pile on quickly if it's really close to deadline.
...
Setael wrote:When I voted you I was in a position to keep an eye on the thread and unvote if anyone jumped on too quickly. I didn't expect that to happen for reasons I've already given but I wanted to be prepared in case I was wrong. I wasn't in the same position today. I'm headed to a funeral and have been driving all day with patchy cell reception.
I'll be V/LA the next few days.
I should be able to check in and vote but I'm not going to be able to do much else.
KTS wrote:@Setael: Here are some accusations for 'ya: Why did you vote for Yoshi when you claimed that you thought it was impossible that neko was town? Why did you vote without letting Yoshi give a counter? Why did you ignore the first accusation listed here when I made it last post? What the heck were you talking about with this: "You're right, I didn't think that through obviously. There's no reason for darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum." That was not even close to what I meant in the post you responded to.
I'll try to get to this tomorrow.
:igmeou:

@Swift: Because I wasn't expecting it and needed to think about it a bit.

Then you said you hadn't used it yet, then turned it around and said you used it but got role-blocked. :shifty:
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Post Post #888 (isolation #119) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:38 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

...Nobody else has anything to say right now? :(
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Post Post #897 (isolation #120) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:49 pm

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Setael wrote:...
KTS wrote:Why did you vote for Yoshi when you claimed that you thought it was impossible that neko was town?
I thought they were scum buddies. I voted Darth because I thought he was scum and because he had flown under the radar, his play had been careful and cautious
all day
and I thought he needed the spotlight.
KTS wrote:Why did you vote without letting Yoshi give a counter?
I didn't think about it. I was sure he was scum and therefore confident it'd take a real fight to get anyone else to vote him. Even if town I was sure scum wouldn't just jump on since no one had expressed suspicion of Darth so it'd look fishy. I did keep an eye on the thread though so I could unvote if I was wrong and that happened.
...
KTS wrote: What the heck were you talking about with this: "You're right, I didn't think that through obviously. There's no reason for darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum." That was not even close to what I meant in the post you responded to.
You're right that I did not think that through well enough. Just like you said, the statement only made sense if I thought Darth was town, which was not the case (though of course there's always a chance he's town, I just don't think so). So that sentence where I said
"the only reason for Darth to not vote me is if he's town and thinks I'm scum" makes no sense and therefore there is no reason for Darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum.


Your whole argument that scum would jump on a mislynch wagon has been proven wrong anyway by zdenek's vote of me not quickly attracting scum (but if you're a townie you won't know that until the game's over so I guess it's only proven to me).
...
1. So Setael voted for the inferior and harder-to-get-town-to-lynch scum-choice because he had flown under the radar the whole game? Instead of both pushing Yoshi whilst pushing and voting for neko as well?
Underlined item is ridiculous, it is LyLo. You are cautious in LyLo or you lose in LyLo. Also pretty much nothing had happened before Setael voted Yoshi for Yoshi to be cautious about.

2. Nobody should ever be 100% sure that somebody is scum, especially with only a lackluster case behind the accusation. Also, Setael already mentioned that neko was also 100% scummy. Also, also, Setael showed no suspicion of Yoshi previous to the vote on him.

3. That counter completely ignores giving the reason why scum-Yoshi wouldn't vote for Setael, Setael just repeats himself instead of giving one. Underlined item makes no sense at all.

4. Argument is faulty 'cause it is basically just saying my point is wrong because something that can't be proved says it is.
Setael wrote:I'm most confident about zdenek being scum.

vote: zdenek
What happened to neko "No chance of town making this post"?



The deadline is tommorow.
We gotta step it up.

Vote: Setael
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Post Post #913 (isolation #121) » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:04 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Good job to scum-team, especially Yoshi. Thought he was town the whole way through.
Nexus wrote:...
Empking fails to submit an action
...
Empking and Swiftstrike don't submit actions
...
What is this Empking. What is this.
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Post Post #930 (isolation #122) » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:20 am

Post by KingTwelveSixteen »

Thanks mod.
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