Mini 1082 (Guns and Ropes: Midland): An Unfaithful Ending.

[Riceballtail]

/confirm

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:SC

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Moose

A wagon of victorious measures!

I also do not care for Gonnano.

[Riceballtail]

Charter: What do you think about the possibility of bussing?

Possible. I'd have said I doubt it is at the time of your post, but after these last few from Moose, I just don't know. I'm finding it hard to find anyway of seeing him as town. Moose is looking such a VI and not in the probably town kind of way.

You are mean.

You are scum.

[Riceballtail]

moose's post seems to match up pretty well with the scumtell you describe in the quoted post (it didn't look like he made much of an attempt to hide it, either). Care to tell us why he didn't get even so much as an FoS from you? Or do your scumtells just not apply to people on your team?

I would rather

let other people

take care of lynching the VI. Honestly, it's going to happen eventually anyway because we can't afford to have him in the endgame, so I'm not going to waste my time with it while there are substantial things to talk about.

Reads: "I don't want to be on a mislynch".

Unvote
Vote: gonnano

@moose: Please answer my question. Why are you being so obstinate about it?

This post feels a lot like "I don't want to lynch my buddy".

FoS:LMP

[Riceballtail]

Well, a second team is technically possible. It's just extremely rare. I'm actually starting to see some good (read:scum) connections here between Moose and LMP.

[Riceballtail]

Your Moose/LMP scum team theory is hilarious. Do you plan on actually contributing to this game, or popping in every 48 hours to make idiotic statements?

Why else would you unvote him at L-2 after his huge AtE?

[Riceballtail]

I still like my moose vote. VI or no, he could really stand to at least try to think for himself.

Also, Enigma, I'm mostly sitting back analyzing right now. My vote is on who looks like the best lynch for today.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Gonnano

(L-2)

You should claim now so we can discuss it instead of hope for a last minute switch.

[Riceballtail]

I'm still down for a moose lynch. Gonnano is more of a concession for me.

[Riceballtail]

If a cop or something has an incriminating result on someone, they shouldn't outright claim it. Obviously try and get them lynched the normal way before going "GUILTY LOLOOLOLOL LYNCHPLZ" and then get NK'ed. Even if we lynch someone else, I think it unwise to claim on day two. If they get NK'ed and don't claim, they should have left obvious clues if they had useful info.

Let's say I am cop. I have a guilty on OJ. If I outright claim we lynch scum that day. Now that night mafia won't be able to kill the cop because they know if there is a doctor or watcher they'll be on the cop.



Hmmmm. I dunno. I'll take your word on it.

No, this is a terrible idea. This is WIFOM that those roles even exist in the game. This only reeks of rolefishing and scum. I am going to again return my vote here.

VOTE:Moose

I also approve of Enigma's case on PZ.

[Riceballtail]

If a cop or something has an incriminating result on someone, they shouldn't outright claim it. Obviously try and get them lynched the normal way before going "GUILTY LOLOOLOLOL LYNCHPLZ" and then get NK'ed. Even if we lynch someone else, I think it unwise to claim on day two. If they get NK'ed and don't claim, they should have left obvious clues if they had useful info.

Let's say I am cop. I have a guilty on OJ. If I outright claim we lynch scum that day. Now that night mafia won't be able to kill the cop because they know if there is a doctor or watcher they'll be on the cop.



Hmmmm. I dunno. I'll take your word on it.

No, this is a terrible idea. This is WIFOM that those roles even exist in the game. This only reeks of rolefishing and scum. I am going to again return my vote here.

VOTE:Moose

I also approve of Enigma's case on PZ.

So let me get this straight. Within the first 5 posts of day 2 you have two players you want to lynch?

I had three yesterday before it ended. And I would still like you to be swinging from the rope.

[Riceballtail]

Well let me ask you this. Why Me?

And if we have a cop with a guilty he better not goto the fucking grave with that info.

1) You are doing no scumhunting, and literally asking others to do it for you.
2) You are attempting to out a cop, assuming they investigated someone last night.
3) Good cops breadcrumb their results, not outright claim them. Losing a cop for 1:1 is why SCUM claim cop, not why cops out themselves.

Cops leave their votes on guilty results quite frequently, and only change for deadline lynches.

@PZ: You really don't have much room to talk about lurking. This is hardly a "troll" wagon either; it's some pretty blatant rolefishing.

[Riceballtail]

1) You are doing no scumhunting, and literally asking others to do it for you.
2) You are attempting to out a cop, assuming they investigated someone last night.
3) Good cops breadcrumb their results, not outright claim them. Losing a cop for 1:1 is why SCUM claim cop, not why cops out themselves.

Cops leave their votes on guilty results quite frequently, and only change for deadline lynches.

RBT's points against moose all seem safe to me. This post seems designed to appear participating by attacking an easy target (the VI).

After you've lost to the VI for "can't be scum, just stupid townie" enough, you don't care and lynch them anyway.

[Riceballtail]

Okay, I'm starting to really feel uncomfortable about Rice. He's voting Moose, and while I agree that Moose just needs to learn a bit more about the game, I'm now in the camp that he is just...inexperienced...and not scummy persay. I feel that Rice is using Moose as a scapegoat here and is being hypocritical. I re-read a bit and could not find anywhere that showed Rice scumhunting himself. IMO, voting Moose is a wasted vote and he's just trying to fly under the radar.

Vote: Riceballtail

Moose joined the site over a year ago.

Moose has played enough games, and made enough posts in said games, to get the default "Mafia Scum" title to his name (which I believe is 500 posts).

Moose is constantly rolefishing, and has yet to even DENY it.

We're lynching Moose, then you for being an obvious scumbuddy.

[Riceballtail]

Also, RBT- Do you think I am scum or are you just wanting to lynch the VI? I can't tell, if you do have a case against me I'd love to hear it.

Well, if you're not scum (which you seem to be from your actions), then getting rid of a VI is just that much better of a deal. If you ARE town, you should have tried acting like it. All you've been doing is flopping around cluelessly, shameless buddying, immense WIFOM and rolefishing, just to name a few. If we have a vig, I'd like to see you dead tonight. But, since I'm not so inclined to believe so, we're gonna have to lynch you so you don't cost us the game later if you somehow happen to be town.

[Riceballtail]

gonnano (7): moose200x, LynchMePls, charter, Riceballtail, StrangerCoug, Rabies, jimfinn

No offense, but I think LMP and charter can't be trusted because their scumdar is clearly broken.

And yours isn't? You have not only yet to vote anyone today besides myself (probably means at least one of your buddies are up for lynch), but the only two people you voted yesterday were Moose (of whom I'm voting for, and you call me scum for doing so... since you thought he was the best one yesterday over gonnano), and jimfinn (who should also probably find his way to the noose after you, since your vote looks like an early bus with no commitment).

[Riceballtail]

With Mizzy's incessant chainsaw, I'm going to guess that the team right now is Moose/Mizzy/(Jim/PZ). I'd prefer Moose today, but I will also switch to Mizzy if the rest of you will join me.

[Riceballtail]

@RBT: People obviously don't agree with you. What good do you think your vote is doing right now?

Probably not much, since my two main suspects are quite conveniently V/LA towards the end of the day. I still think we should lynch from {Moose, Mizzy} but I will move my vote to ensure a lynch to either Jim or PZ.

[Riceballtail]

Have we decided which one we're lynching?

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:PZ

Happy?

[Riceballtail]

It does seem to be MYLO. I'd rather not completely rush to end the day though. Especially with a replacement to get some information from first.

[Riceballtail]

Well, so much for trying to make a gameplan.

[Riceballtail]

Well, so much for trying to make a gameplan.

Don't worry sweetheart, We will lynch you and jimfin tomorrow.

Wait, you're going to lynch a (soft)claimed doctor?

You and your buddies plan this out already?

[Riceballtail]

Why do you want me dead? That makes me a sad moose.

Because you're scum, obviously.

[Riceballtail]

I'm down with massclaim, and a Moose lynch.

He's obviously trying to jump to clear himself for a (scummy) reason.

[Riceballtail]

I am an investigative role.

In the interest of not allowing scum to know what kind, and thus possibly catching a fakeclaim, it is best to hold this until after everyone else has claimed.

DH is next, and Enigma should still claim target.

[Riceballtail]

Oh bullshit. There is no way you never instigated me. No chance in hell.

Wait, I claimed cop? Where?

Aren't you just a little paranoid, scum?

@Enigma: No, my results aren't especially helpful as they are. But I did get a "no result" last night, so there has to be at least one RB.

[Riceballtail]

So, scum definitely have a roleblocker. I got no result last night when tracking DH.

Moose did nothing N1, Enigma did nothing N2 (I would imagine this is due to him also being blocked).

I'm also now under the assumption that with no protective roles claimed, scum didn't kill last night.

If I was going to lynch anyone, it's still Moose. Enigma's claim seems really suspicious to me, but this town seems really underpowered without it. Jim's attempt to "draw" a NK is probably bogus as well.

I'm fairly certain if we lynch out of {Moose, Jim, Rob} we will hit scum, but Moose is most likely IMO.

[Riceballtail]

Especially him tracking moose nowhere, but still ridding him hard. Wouldn't you at least question your scum read if you tracked them nowhere? I know it isn't an innocent result, but it seems like you'd at least lose some suspicion.

Not really. Only one scum makes the kill, so I don't know why I would not keep putting pressure on someone who is at best anti-town. Note that he is suddenly, as soon as I claim just being investigative, that he jumps all over my case? Immediate defense, saying I must be scum, followed by a disappearing act? Reeks of caught scum to me.

[Riceballtail]

No.

Thanks for claiming scum. We'll get your Jim buddy tomorrow.

VOTE:Rob

[Riceballtail]

We need to lynch today, this isn't really a choice. If it were that Jim is town by Enigma's shot (assuming this claim is true), and there was another scum kill, then we will have 6 alive come tomorrow.

@Enigma: Are you compulsive?

[Riceballtail]

We need to lynch today, this isn't really a choice. If it were that Jim is town by Enigma's shot (assuming this claim is true), and there was another scum kill, then we will have 6 alive come tomorrow.

Yeah, but that's my point. If we choose incorrectly today, we lose no matter what. So, the plan is all about maximizing our chances assuming our choice is correct. There is a choice about whether or not we lynch today. Get it now?

So we should rely on Enigma to follow a plan, instead of get both a lynch AND vig shot? We have a better chance of winning with a lynch and vig over just a vig shot. We don't lose if we lynch, and if we lynch wrong, we can STILL get ahead with a vig shot. OR, if we're right, we get a vig shot to give us another chance to get ahead, however... it would at that point be optional.

[Riceballtail]

1)

MOD:

I agree with the deadline extension, as it does fall during a high travel time. I suggest 2-3 days, as to allow more return from festivities, and will land more between the two.
2)

I will be V/LA between 12/24 and 12/28.

3) I am still in favor of a Rob lynch, and endorse the (probable) vig shot to kill either Moose or Jim.

[Riceballtail]

@Rob:
RBT ISO#14:

Okay, I'm starting to really feel uncomfortable about Rice. He's voting Moose, and while I agree that Moose just needs to learn a bit more about the game, I'm now in the camp that he is just...inexperienced...and not scummy persay. I feel that Rice is using Moose as a scapegoat here and is being hypocritical. I re-read a bit and could not find anywhere that showed Rice scumhunting himself. IMO, voting Moose is a wasted vote and he's just trying to fly under the radar.

Vote: Riceballtail

Moose joined the site over a year ago.

Moose has played enough games, and made enough posts in said games, to get the default "Mafia Scum" title to his name (which I believe is 500 posts).

Moose is constantly rolefishing, and has yet to even DENY it.

We're lynching Moose, then you for being an obvious scumbuddy.

RBT ISO #16

gonnano (7): moose200x, LynchMePls, charter, Riceballtail, StrangerCoug, Rabies, jimfinn

No offense, but I think LMP and charter can't be trusted because their scumdar is clearly broken.

And yours isn't? You have not only yet to vote anyone today besides myself (probably means at least one of your buddies are up for lynch), but the only two people you voted yesterday were Moose (of whom I'm voting for, and you call me scum for doing so... since you thought he was the best one yesterday over gonnano), and jimfinn (who should also probably find his way to the noose after you, since your vote looks like an early bus with no commitment).

RBT ISO #17

With Mizzy's incessant chainsaw, I'm going to guess that the team right now is Moose/Mizzy/(Jim/PZ). I'd prefer Moose today, but I will also switch to Mizzy if the rest of you will join me.

I was pulling up my posts, and doing it separate. Didn't think I had to say "hold on five minutes while I go back through my ISO to quote it all". These are the primary reasons that I wanted Mizzy, now you, lynched. I'd still much rather see Moose, but we'll need Enigma to vig him, since everyone refuses to lynch VIs.

[Riceballtail]

Your 1st post is awfully omgus don't you think? She is suspicious cause she votes you
Your 2nd post, she says 2 people can't be trusted and you grill her for not voting anyone but you, seems more omgus to me
3rd where is the example of the "chainsaw defense"?

1) She's suspicious because she's accusing me of voting moose and trying to fly under the radar. I point out reasons why Moose should be legitly pressured, much less lynched. This is an obvious defense.
2) She accuses charter and LMP of having "broken scumdars", despite the fact that Charter was probably one of the most protown players we had. I then proceed to point out how terrible her own voting history (aka scumdar) appears to be. This then shows that she is probably going to try and get another mislynch set up by pushing me.
3) Deliberate calling out of her chainsaw to defend Moose, and statement of being on a team.
4) Scum can just as easily defend their own as bus them.

[Riceballtail]

No, not gonna refute my argument?

Take it as a claim of admission then.

[Riceballtail]

I have returned. I will attempt to catch up tomorrow. Doesn't look like much went down though.

[Riceballtail]

Post delayed, had something come up that's taken most of the day.

[Riceballtail]

After catching up, I'm still sold on my Rob vote. I think a Rob/Enigma scumteam is actually quite likely. Convenient that Rob claims a protection on Mac, right after Enigma claims a kill on him? Enigma didn't do anything N2.

1) Rob RB'd Enigma, claims it as doc protect. (Implies Enigma is town)
2) Rob actually protected Mac (Enigma is untrackable)
3) Both are scum and lied to sound truthful (2-for-1 scumtastic)

One of these two is a better lynch, and I prefer Rob because, if Enigma actually is telling the truth, we can hit another scum tonight. I still think Jim is a good third scumbuddy, and have to reluctantly believe that with those facts in light that Moose is probably the most unproductive waste of a town slot ever. At least Empking tried on occasion.

[Riceballtail]

UNVOTE; VOTE:Jim

Not my preferred lynch, but it's gotta be done.

[Riceballtail]

1) Yeah, I tracked Enigma to Rob
2) I highly doubt the SK claim, sounds like an attempt to hide the fact that there have never been two kills. Four nights, no double kill ever.

VOTE:Enigma

[Riceballtail]

So now you're going to WIFOM your way out of a lynch?

If there were three scum, they'd have won already. There are two scum, the town has little power, so it can very easily seem balanced.

The near immediate claim and push that it's suddenly a kingmaker situation almost 100% verifies that:
1) Enigma is scum
2) He's hoping his partner isn't suspicious enough to be the lynch

Doc/Gov/Tracker is possibly on the powerful side for town in a 2 scum setup, but I have a hard time thinking that scum don't have a RB.

[Riceballtail]

You're nitpicking my word use. I said it can seem balanced, but it's possibly on the powerful side if the scum didn't have a RB (which we know they do).

[Riceballtail]

RBT, you received "Did Nothing" on the first 2 nights, and "No Result" on the 3rd night, is this correct? As in, two distinct results, yes?

Correct.

[Riceballtail]

I am here guys. No prod needed

Still gonna be a total waste of a slot?

[Riceballtail]

RBT, you're familiar with 2 maf, 1 SK in 12 player setup. I know you are. So, why are you unwilling to believe Enigma's SK claim?

Because after four nights, there's been no sign of a second kill. We also know that they didn't RB Enigma every night, based on my N3 no result.

[Riceballtail]

Well, at this point, it's pretty safe to say that there's only two scum. If there were three, the team would have to be myself, Enigma, and LMP. Otherwise they could just pile on to victory.

@Mac: Roleblockers can have limited shots. Enigma could have also claimed anything he wanted, it just happened to be the same as the doc protect. I have a result that says he didn't go anywhere, Enigma is only saying that he made an action. Also, suggesting a scum RB before the massclaim starts is very scummy, setting himself up to be cleared because his kill didn't go through. I have little reason to think Enigma is telling the truth based on his description of the events.

Also, our lynch pool is definitely {Enigma, Mac, LMP}. Unfortunately, Moose is too busy being a terrible player to help us despite almost certainly being town.

[Riceballtail]

@DH/LMP: Stop bickering. Enigma and Lock are the scum.

After some rereading, I came across how strong Lock was pushing for us to rely on Enigma to make kills for the town over a lynch. We have no reason as of yet to believe Enigma's claim, and the hard push to keep control of the deaths to nights means that they knew his claim was going to come into question soon with the sudden lack of a second kill come N4. Lock must be the RB. Combine that sudden suspicion, with a claim that he killed the Doctor, as well as a track that proves it, and it all starts to fit together. Changing his claim to SK is just to prevent himself from getting lynched, and the constant attack on the most obvious town alive is basically the condemning straw on the camel's back.

Also, while rereading Rob, he reminded me of a very good point. Enigma has been trying to constantly disprove the PRs, but to what benefit? Two of the four claimed are dead and confirmed, and he's changed his to scum. Clearly, anyone who thinks I'm scum at this point is either not paying attention, or just tries to push me along so they can win. This is why the three biggest pushers of my wagon right now are the most obvious lynches (Mac, Enigma, LMP).

@Lock: Why not DH? If it weren't for the fact that my claim basically confirms me at this point, then I would say DH was the most obvtown player right now. Your doubt mongering is more proof that you want to get the attention off you and your partner.

@DH: I see your case on LMP, but really, it's not going to help us win. Our best play is Enigma, and if you don't buy that, Lock.

[Riceballtail]

@DH: Well, if you're not going to lynch Enigma, vote Lock.

[Riceballtail]

Unvote; Vote:Lock

[Riceballtail]

I'm going to be so mad if Moose is scum. -_-

[Riceballtail]

I have this feeling that Moose is less town than I originally thought.

Why is Lock not dead yet?

[Riceballtail]

I'm so confused.

Enigma didn't go anywhere.

I'm still in favor of either Enigma or Lock lynch.

[Riceballtail]

RBT, you knew that Enigma was going to attempt a kill. Tracking him gains the town nothing, no matter what the result. Why didn't you Track me?

I sent the wrong name, and didn't catch it.

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Lock

If you're really paying attention, you'd at the very least not be voting me.

[Riceballtail]

Your voting DH because he is assuming about the setup yet you are making that assumption yourself?

Yeah, he's grabbing for anything to get a mislynch I'm sure.

[Riceballtail]

This game will stall if all three scum vote me. Moose isn't scum and RBT isn't, either.

So, I guess today will be a no lynch.

Probably.

The only reason I'd vote you is to put this game out of it's misery though.

[Riceballtail]

@Pap:
Vote Macavity
????
PROFIT

[Riceballtail]

RBT Tracked Enigma N4 to Rob, Tracked Enigma N5 to no one. Both of these Tracks are failures on RBT's part, as we already knew that Enigma was going to kill both nights. (N4, he had an even night vig claim out. By N5 he had claimed scum.

Wait, no, this is wrong. Enigma attempted to kill Rob but failed due to external reasons. Enigma attempted to kill Rice N5 but failed due to external reasons. How could he get a tracker result on when Enigma tried to kill Rob but not Rice?

Why are we suddenly believing this? If I had lied about my result, why wouldn't Enigma have said so much earlier? Enigma clearly sent a kill to Rob. If I had, in fact, lied about it, why wouldn't Enigma call me out on it much sooner?

I'm definitely leaning that there are only two scum, and Later is trying to make stuff up to get a mislynch on me, using his "confirmed" SK status again. Enigma is a better player than that to have just rolled over and not pushed me to a lynch with anything he had. He was constantly trying to get me dead, but if he had such solid evidence, he would have brought it forth.

Unvote; Vote:Later

Definitely not an SK. Lynch this liar.

[Riceballtail]

This game will stall if all three scum vote me. Moose isn't scum and RBT isn't, either.

So, I guess today will be a no lynch.

Probably.

The only reason I'd vote you is to put this game out of it's misery though.

If I were scum, why on earth wouldn't I have simply put a hammer here instead? DH was already at three votes. Then I and my apparent scumbuddy could have coasted our way to victory.

It's definitely Lock and Lat. I really don't buy the SK thing anymore.

[Riceballtail]

Unvote; Vote:Lock

I think basically everyone agrees that he's scummy, if not definitely scum.

This is our best option today.

[Riceballtail]

Tracker A would not receive a result as SK B did not successfully kill his target.

AND.... this 100% confirms Rice as lying since he shouldn't have seen me in my failed attempt to kill Rob.

How much longer are you going to push the sudden change in story? Enigma would have outed it if it were true. You're making it up, because you know there's no SK, and your partner, Lock, is the best lynch besides pushing me.

[Riceballtail]

You can't hammer when you're already on the wagon.

[Riceballtail]

Well, I guess that's what I get for failing to actually submit an action last night.

[Riceballtail]

Hmph. Well, I hope you're happy. I really screwed up today. GG scum.

[Riceballtail]

Rice, why did you drag the game out an extra week >.>?

I play scum best by telling myself I'm town through the day. With how painfully long the days were, I almost had forgotten that I was actually mafia, and after someone unvoted did I realize that I could have won the game.

[Riceballtail]

Yeah, I've been so used to mods who read the QT for the night actions, I forgot to specifically send in the one for N5. ><

[Riceballtail]

No, I totally take fault for the mistake of not sending the action in. It's not yours at all SSBF, as you had stated as such in the rules. Some scum QTs change their mind far too often to be able to really tell who is the actual NK.

[Riceballtail]

Oh, and knowing why Riceballtail killed me would help.

Because I know you know how to read me as scum. T_T