Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[DeathRowKitty]

VOTE: DeathRowKitty

He knows why.

Because you're scum, obviously.

Vote: MyMilkedEek

If we wagon fast enough, we might be able to lynch him before he's done with his shower

[DeathRowKitty]

LA through the 14th

Also,

unvote, vote: Greedling

. I do like [Redacted]'s vote on Greedling.

[DeathRowKitty]

Vote: [Redacted]

I don't think this requires an explanation.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually it does, I see him(?) as the most obv town player so far. so, please, do explain.

He was wayyyyyy overaggressive for the RVS.

His next post is actually even worse, as regards that:

Your first post was a completely random vote that ignored everything happening in the thread and your next one is yet another waste of space avoiding commenting on anything happening in the game. Place a real vote, give a read, contribute in some way or die.

Unvote; Vote: Nerus

This is where I would normally take a quick look back to completed games to see if this is consistent with the person's normal play, but [Redacted] doesn't have any games I can look up for that purpose (alt using an abrasive playstyle?). It wouldn't surprise me at this point if this turned out just to be his playstyle.

Re this: Oh, excuse me, Mr. My First Impression of Everyone is Absolute

PS: deathrowkitty, could you please explain what "Ribbit" means?

It's the sound a frog makes. Why do you bring up this word? Does it have some sort of special meaning?

DRK, we are all still waiting on your explanation...

Hello, I'm DRK and I'm on LA until the 14th. Nice to meet you too.

Let's not use meta on Page 3 please.

How far into the game would you say we have to be before it's okay to use meta?

Llama's metagaming makes me nervous, but that could easily be a simple mistake, especially when compared to Neruz deciding to BACK metagaming as a viable strategy for reasons I consider tenuous at best.
Unvote. Vote: Neruz

What do you mean when you call Llama's metagaming 'a simple mistake'?

P.S. Llamarble, please don't base everything on meta. Go browse through my current games linked on my Wiki, if you care to I think it's missing a few, but there's most there.

Self-meta defense this early is awkward. Self-meta is generally the last resort of a desperate townie, not an early way to alleviate suspicion. It's excusable-ish since Llamarble did specifically call him out on some sort of meta-based argument, but I still don't like it.

FoS GreyICE

Nathaniel's posts are bringing tear's to everyone's eyes. I don't even know what the garbage he calls an ISO is supposed to be.

However, I do like GreyICE's point on his scumbuddy here. It was nice of him to point it out.

Unvote, vote: Nathanael

.

[DeathRowKitty]

So Hiraki, if I were to say that your play thus far doesn't remind me of your scum meta, what would you think of that?

[DeathRowKitty]

What the bloody hell is this nonsense, your here posting on a daily basis but your not going to answer questions until the 14th? Either bugger off for your V/LA or play the game, waiting to see how the game develops before answering questions seems a game plan that consists of combines the worst of coasting and active lurking.

There are 2 bold claims in your first sentence, both of which are blatantly false. If you're confident enough in them to accuse me of them in that tone but not useful enough to actually check if they're correct (especially since checking one of them would have required no more than fully reading the post you were quoting), I plan on ignoring everything you say for the rest of the game. Stop PMSing and actually play.

[DeathRowKitty]

Mod, fix the quote tags?

>.<

[DeathRowKitty]

Since you seem to agree with Grey's point, but I can't understand it (what is that "ISO"-stuff you are talking about?), how about you explain it to me in your words. what exactly was Grey's point?
GreyICE, I'd like you to NOT answer this question for him, since I want to know what DRK agrees with exactly.

You see that thing below where you type up posts that says "Display posts by user:" with a dropdown menu? Select your name and click "Go". That's your iso. At the time of my posting about it, your iso contained (IIRC) 5 posts, 4 of which contained votes, and very scarce content to justify 3 quick vote switches.

Hey Hiraki. I'm Nathanael. I'm fine and I am happy to meet you in this cool game. I hope you are well too.
I think it would improve the relationship between us a lot if we just were honest to each other so I'll ask you a little question: Are you scum?
I'd appreciate your sincerity.

Yeahhhhh, I'm definitely liking the idea of a Nathanael wagon here. I don't see any town motivation here.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, this will be the first time I've actually played as a vanilla townie. (In my more inexperienced games, all of the roles had an ability)
Good luck using meta on me.

/facepalm

I'm not able to meta you right now (at friends on mafiascum (yeah, I know...)), but I'm inclined to believe this statement, lol.

QFT....especially the facepalm

bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?

Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.



The reason I voted Xine? There isn't much of one. I mainly voted him because he said I was mafia. I am a good guy. I didn't need much of a reason to change votes. I voted My Milked Eek originally for almost no reason at all. A random vote, I thought was best at the time.

Also, yes. I get rather defensive. I always do.

I can support this. I was suspecting you tell now as just bullrushing Xine lynch, but this makes sense. unvote vote Xine

His explanation for his vote is OMGUS + changes votes easily. Not sure how that could possibly convince you of anything.

FoS Greedling

Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

Okay, now I'm not so sure he's town. Ignore my earlier agreement with MME. (inb4 bgg-Greedling-Nathanael scum team?)

I'm even more sure about GreyICE being scum, as sure about DRK, and less sure on bgg, no new scum-spects.

Just to clarify: are you saying I'm scum for having voted [Redacted]? If so, why is that scummy?

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually...thinking through the bgg thing a little more, most games have at least one non-vanilla mafioso and he would know his buddies' roles if he were scum. This may be useful later on after we have a mafia flip.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Xine
Yes. Unless this was a clever (and kind of cheap) scum ploy, if we see someone flip mafia roleblocker or something similar, bgg becomes very likely town.

[DeathRowKitty]

Fair enough. What do you think of Nathanael?

[DeathRowKitty]

Well let's look at Nathanael's votes:

VOTE: [Redacted]
I agree with the case on him.

The case on [Redacted] was a joke vote, so it's safe to assume this is purely a random vote.

What can I say, I'm lucky that way. Oh well.

Vote: No Lynch

Lets be friends!

UNVOTE: VOTE: GreyICE, for no-lynching.

Looking like a not-so-random vote.

UNVOTE: VOTE: DeathRowKitty, for fucking with my brain. (What does "Ribbit" mean? or did I just get something wrong?)

This came 5 posts after his vote on GreyICE and is once again random. The only thing that changed between those two posts is that Greedling's new GreyICE vote became a matter of contention (2 votes for Greedling, 1 vote for someone for voting for Greedling). Either his vote on Hiraki was meaningless (in which case why bother casting it?) or I could possibly see nervous scum moving away from controversy.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xine. wagon go go go!

PS: deathrowkitty, could you please explain what "Ribbit" means?

Oh, look, a serious wagon that I'm going to arbitrarily hop onto while distracting you by talking about other stuff!

---

Reasonable chance of being scum, probably worth poking a bit, although Hiraki's attempts so far have met with consummate failure.

Nothing pokes quite like a vote! So how 'bout it? Nathanael wagon?

[DeathRowKitty]

Why do you think Xine is scum? Your Xine vote was the first time you mentioned her (Xine is a she btw) and you never gave any reasoning.

[DeathRowKitty]

Let's not lynch bgg today. I think he's town. Claiming VT early is stupid, not scummy.

@Neruz
You think Nathanael needs to be looked into more, I present a case on him, and then you vote a lurker instead? Duuuuude, what's going on here? I thought we were budz!

[DeathRowKitty]

You clearly have Nath covered my man; no reason to tunnel on anyone is there :3

But one vote won't make scum crumble and fold.

@Llamarble
I don't see why scum would think that everyone was vanilla. A role PM that says "Your buddies are xxxxx (roleblocker) and yyyyy (godfather) is generally a bit of a giveaway (when's the last time you saw a completely vanilla scum team in a 12+ player mini?). The one point I'll give you is his proof thing, though that depends on what he meant by "today" (I read it as the other meaning of today). As for setup ignorance...I see one way he might have gotten that idea, but I'd rather not make an ass out of you and me.

@bgg
1. Why did you think there were only vanilla roles in this game?
2. How do you plan on proving you're not scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

Day 1 is as good a day to make scum fold as any other. As for the whole votes vs. questions thing, votes are what allow questions or cases to mean anything. I could question Nathanael all I want and even make a case on him, but if no one is willing to vote him, all of it amounts to a small annoyance for him.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't recall ever calling Neruz town (and you linked the wrong thing anyway)

[DeathRowKitty]

I like your OMGUS there

So tell me, why wouldn't I direct that post to someone I wasn't sure was town?

[DeathRowKitty]

Is it still too early to use meta? If it's not too early, I'm calling GreyICE scum right now. If it is too early....well, I can always wait a couple of pages.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well I wouldn't mind if you shared, sure. What's the juicy tidbit of meta awesomeness that proves that I'm scum?

Uhhh...the fact that you're playing differently than you did in the game I've seen you in as town and in the game I just did a brief skim of your iso from in which you were also town?

[DeathRowKitty]

I never said I was in a game with you :s

I read Mini 1105 though (first ever 13p mini normal) and did a quick iso of you in Mini 1117 (ongoing).

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you seriously not think that voting someone for voting No Lynch in RVS is at least better than a randomvoting (you would LOVE this post if that's really what you are saying)? I'll explain again. it is quite simple. assume EVERYBODY did the same thing: what would we get? a no lynch and no information.

That's perfectly reasonable....except you unvoted and re-random voted afterwards. Was voting someone for no lynch suddenly not better than a random vote?

The major reason for me to believe Xine to be scum is post 121: I really see this as blatant opportunism on the easiest wagon (a newbtown.) What I didn't like especially about this post is the delay between bgg's vote on Xine and Xine's response. To me this really indicates scum wanting to first check the general atmosphere before trying to push the wagon.

You seem quite sure that bgg is town. I agree that he probably is, but basing a case off of him being easy-to-wagon newbtown? Not seeing it.

If bgg is our lynch for today and he does flip town, I am thinking Surprise_Carcinogen and Hiraki might be scum.

Obligatory "lining up lynches" comment. Especially with you not having a vote out, it seems shady to me that you're sitting back and calling people on the main wagon potentially scummy without actually trying to push a lynch anywhere else.

The argument about whether or not scum are aggressive is a pointless distraction. Aggression is mainly a result of the player, not the alignment.

...oh, hai TBM. Nice to see you.

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT, GreyICE ignores post 232.

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT, GreyICE ignores post 232.

She's tired? Oh come on. She's leaving her vote on a wagon that she thinks is being lead by scum?

She is tired, because she slipped that badly. If you think scum's leading the wagon, you don't hop on. On the other hand, if you want to chain mislynches...

Allow me to reword. ITT, GreyICE fails at comprehending post 232.

And, by the way Neruz, don't confuse passive-aggressive with aggressive. Passive-aggressive is where you bait people into attacks by generally making actions that are not overtly aggressive, but incite aggression. That's a scum tell, because it is a good way to damage logical processes by creating emotional appeals that generally screw up wagons. General passive aggressive posting is very, very scummy.

To wit:

What the bloody hell is this nonsense, your here posting on a daily basis but your not going to answer questions until the 14th? Either bugger off for your V/LA or play the game, waiting to see how the game develops before answering questions seems a game plan that consists of combines the worst of coasting and active lurking.

There are 2 bold claims in your first sentence, both of which are blatantly false. If you're confident enough in them to accuse me of them in that tone but not useful enough to actually check if they're correct (especially since checking one of them would have required no more than fully reading the post you were quoting), I plan on ignoring everything you say for the rest of the game. Stop PMSing and actually play.

Redacted was aggressive, DRK was passive aggressive. Called on the lurking, the general response has been to sit around and lob dirt bombs at people.

The best part? Her vote is on Redacted for all of today while calling everyone scum. But she NEVER EVEN QUESTIONS HIM AGAIN. It's like she's given up on catching scum, and given up on convincing anyone she's caught scum. Why hasn't she moved the vote or done anything with it? Doesn't want to put another scum vote on the bgg wagon until it gets close to deadline.

Given that last bit, she's most likely the scumbuddy of Xine-scum.

ITT, GreyICE fails at recognizing passive-aggressive behavior, fails at reading post 80, and fails at reading my gender. (Also, passive-aggressiveness is a personality trait more than an alignment tell ftr. I'm sometimes passive-aggressive simply because that's what I'm normally like, but the post you quoted was not an example of being passive-aggressive.)

0/4, dude.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I say this with the utmost love and respect and not caring what time zone you're in: go to sleep. You are failing so miserably right now it's painful to read. I've made a case that you've ignored. That doesn't mean the case doesn't exist. If you want my opinions on other scum from the wagon: the two scummiest are you and Neruz. I don't care whether or not it's possible for the two of you to be scum together, nor do I feel like checking right now if it's possible. The two of you are individually the scummiest on that wagon. Any other questions?

[DeathRowKitty]

Yes, but that's completely irrelevant. Now stop being passive-aggressive and scumhunt like you told me to

[DeathRowKitty]

ITT = In this thread

It's generally used in titles of general discussion topics, but I rather like the abbreviation.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, tbh, the read I'm getting off of GreyICE's recent posts is hilariously pissed off town. The big thing missing from this game when I initially gave the scum meta read on him was emotion. In both of his town games I'd seen, he'd gotten really worked up about things early and often, whereas he'd been much more mild this game.

[DeathRowKitty]

*prod-dodge*

Useful post coming when it's not 2:30am

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, catching up time. First thing that really catches my eye is this post because of the possible connection between Neruz and Nathanael. To me, this post doesn't seem like bussing/distancing for some reason. It's mostly because of part a of his questioning of Neruz. If I were questioning a buddy, "why do you think I think you're scum?" is pretty much something I'd avoid at all costs, simply because my reaction to seeing that if I were on the receiving end of it would be "because it says so in my role PM, idiot" or something to that effect. Could be overthinking it, I suppose, but we'll see how it turns out.

bgg's explanations are getting dangerously far into WIFOMy metascum territory, but I'm still really not getting a scum feel off of them. This is where it would be nice to see a more recent game he played as scum, but he's refused to provide links from recent games, so I don't know.

@bgg
How would you describe your scum meta (beyond "try to look like I'm town")?

I still disagree with a BGG lynch atm and will be making a post about DRK on Monday

You sure know how to make a guy feel special

I don't like the line of attack Hiraki's been following on bgg (see here for an example). It kind of feels like he's prodding bgg with a sharp stick and then going "ZOMG U SAID "OUCH" LOLSCUM"

Minor Neruz explosion in thread? check. Experience tells me Neruz-splosion isn't a scum tell and I don't find [Redacted]'s case hugely convincing, so meh. *sits on Neruz's fence*

I would like to see more out of Llamarble. My gut doesn't like him, but his posts aren't giving a huge amount to go on right now. I also want to look a bit more into Hiraki. For some rason, despite his having a reasonable number of posts, he's managed to fly almost completely under my radar.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm ignoring the Neruz-bgg back-and-forth for now. The most productive opinion I got out of it is that reading back-and-forths is boring. Not sure it would be productive for me to write a post on that. Moving on to more important stuff:

Okay, I've read through Hiraki's iso and the first 7 pages of the thread. There's SOMETHING I don't like about Hiraki and I have no idea what it is. It's kind of bugging me tbh that I can't pin this down, but whatever.

Something I noticed from my reread that I didn't catch the first time:

scum: Xine
scummy: DeathRowKitty, Surprise_Carcinogen
null: Greedling, [Redacted], My Milked Eek, Ant_to_the_max, Llamarble, Neruz
townish: GreyICE, Hiraki
town: bgg1996]

This is going to sound a bit nit-picky, buuuuut.....does it bother anyone else that his list of reads is

completely

symmetrical? One scum, one town. Two scummy, two townish. Six null. I mean, aside from the fact that he posted a list in which he listed half the game as null, it just feels too damn even. Makes one wonder if he perhaps wanted it to look like that. It's especially strange when combined with this:

Sometimes it is much easier to go looking for town-reads than for scum-reads. And then you have to find scum based on you town-reads. Well, this is one of those cases.

If it's easier for him to find town reads in this game than scum reads, then why does he have the same number of town and scum reads. Even aside from that, if he's really hunting from process of elimination like he seems to be implying, how is he doing so if he had null reads on literally half of the game?

Deadline is in under 3 days. We need to start making something happen here and I don't see a better option out there than Nathanael. I'm seeing Neruz as town, Xine as neutral-slightly scummy and bgg as a big distraction. If we can't get a wagon on Nathanael in time, I'd be willing to vote Xine. I would not as of now be particularly happy with a Neruz lynch.

[DeathRowKitty]

I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.

[DeathRowKitty]

Prod-dodge for now. Will get caught up when I'm running on slightly more sleep.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oh, gawd, looks like there are a few new pages. >.<

Eek needs to make himself known in this thread. Before he showers, preferably. Speaking of which, I'm going to throw out the shadiest scum read right now: I have a slight scum read on Eek. For lurking, right? No. For his wording in this post. Yeah, I just nit-picked on wording. Someone should call me scummy for that.

Also, I'm not drunk, but when reading this post, you should pretend I am. It makes sense!

Actually, I have an idea. I'm feeling really weird, so I'm going to read people and give random gut reads. Okay? Cool. Brb.

[DeathRowKitty]

FOR MY FIRST RANDOM GUT READ, [REDACTED] IS TOWN.

FOR MY SECOND ROYAL DECREE, ANT_TO_THE_MAX IS SCUM.

FOR MY THIRD ACT OF PARLIAMENT, BGG IS TOWN, I THINK, MAYBE, POSSIBLY, SORT OF.

FOR MY FOURTH PROPHECY, GREEDLING IS SCUMMY SCUM SCUMZORS. AN ADDENDUM TO THIS STATES THAT THE MOD NEEDS TO UPDATE REPLACEMENTS IN THE OP AND KRAZY IS MAYBE SCUM, SO LET'S SAY THIS SLOT IS SCUM, K?

FOR MY FIFTH MIGHTY STATEMENT OF TRUTH, GREYICE IS PROBABLY TOWN. ISN'T THAT AWESOME?

FOR MY SIXTH KERNEL OF KNOWLEDGE, HIRAKI IS SLIGHTLY SORT OF MAYBE TOWN.

DAMMIT, I'M LOSING MY AWESOME DRUNKEN POWAHZ.

FOR MY SEVENTH SEED OF JUSTICE, LLAMARBLE DOESN'T POST IN A FORMAT MY DRUNKEN POWAHZ ARE CAPABLE OF READING. STOP SCRUNCHING ALL YOUR LINES TOGETHER LIKE THAT, DAMMIT.

FOR MY EIGHTH GIFT TO THE WORLD, EEK HAS BARELY POSTED. I NEED CONTENT TO WORK MY MAGIC

FOR MY NINTH NUGGET OF AWESOME, NATHANAEL IS TOWN WTF. THIS CAN'T BE RIGHT HURRDYDURRDYDURRRR

FOR MY TENTH FRIENDLY BIT OF ADVICE, NERUZ IS OMGOBVTOWNWHYAREPEOPLEVOTINGHIM

FOR MY ELEVENTH WORD OF WISDOM, SURPRISE_CARCINOGEN IS....UHHH....SLIGHTLY TOWNISH, I THINK? WRITE LONGER POSTS WITH MORE PARAGRAPHS, DUDE.

FOR MY FINAL JUICY BALL OF WIN, XINE IS TOWN. TAKE THAT, WAGON



WELP, THAT'S ALL FOR NOW. CAN'T WAIT TO READ THIS LATER AND WONDER WHAT THE HELL I WAS THINKING. KTHXBAI

[DeathRowKitty]

DON'T WORRY GUYS, I DID SOME META LIGHTNING ON LLAMARBLE AND I NOW DECLARE HIM POSSIBLY TOWN.

SCUM TEAM IS ANT_TO_THE_MAX, KRAZY, AND MYMILKEDEEK, VOTE THEM PLZ AND TENK UUUU

[DeathRowKitty]

WAIT, I'M NOT VOTING THEM EITHER MY BAD

VOTE: ANT_TO_THE_MAX

LET'S DO THIS ALPHABETICALLY

[DeathRowKitty]

VOTE: MYMILKEDEEK

LET'S DO THIS

[DeathRowKitty]

As an act of good faith, I give you this picture I just took of an apple in a dark room. Extra lighting is provided by a mini flashlight:



You are now obligated to vote with me. I will compromise and vote any of the three I listed in my post above.

[DeathRowKitty]

I r not drunk. I just haz awesome drunken powahz. Now help me lynch your buddies, plz. I posted an apple.

[DeathRowKitty]

NOOO, I'M NOT HIGH ;_;

NERUZ, SWEETIE, VOTE WITH MEEEE.

VOTE: ANT_TO_THE_MAX

YOU KNOW YOU WANT TOOOO <3333

[DeathRowKitty]

Neruzzzzz, you've seen me play and u know ah can haz insanez0rs scumhunting skills. Trust meeeee, sheep meeeeee.

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, Neruz, my random gut reads are one of two things: I either gots in touch with mah scumhunting skills or I iz gone completely off the deep end....and for some reason, before I typed that, I thought you'd believe the first was more likely >.< Damn it. Well, what do you think of those three players anyway?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'm not gonna lie, I just iso'd them again and there's really nothing *solid* there to base a read on. >_>

Here's what I did: I checked each player's iso in turn and, instead of actually reading them, I just kind of glanced over sentences here and there without actually absorbing what they said. I continued to do so until I found something that my gut either said "town" or "scum" on, at which point I stopped, recorded the read, and moved on to the next iso. Interestingly enough, I did end up with exactly 3 scum at the end >_>

[DeathRowKitty]

Pleeeeeaaaaaase. This can be just like #mafia! Townbuddies rapin da scumz

[DeathRowKitty]

Dude, look at my avatar -_-

[DeathRowKitty]

Since when is that relevant? >.>

[DeathRowKitty]

Have you ever seen a picture of said Frog? No? Well there you go.

So what do you say? Townbuddies rapin da scumz? :3

[DeathRowKitty]

</3

Does this mean you think I'm scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait, wait, where did I like and/or slander?

[DeathRowKitty]

EBWOP: lie*, not like

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, except that's not game-relevant. Surely something I've done day 1 or something I've done now has given you some sort of a read on me. Is this town-crazy or scum-crazy?

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, I'm kind of sad that Krazy had nothing to say about this game. He was browsing the forum and this is his only mini normal.

[DeathRowKitty]

It was all *supposed* to be game-relevant (except the stuff about my gender). Whether or not it actually was is debatable, I suppose. Anyway, I think I've spammed this thread enough for one night (sorry about that btw...). I suppose I'll be back to check on whether or not I like my reads when I'm a bit more sane.

[DeathRowKitty]

The "drunk" parts are definitely game-relevant. Whether or not it's useful is different....and I should probably stop posting at this point...

[DeathRowKitty]

Let's have a poll.

Who thinks this is a pointless distraction.

Me, or me?

[DeathRowKitty]

...but you lost the game

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, if I'm going to be honest here, I never even considered reading the past few pages as a possibility. This game has devolved into the same few people arguing the same useless points over and over again. It's partly that there are a lot of players (myself included) that aren't posting as much as we should be and it's partly that there are some players in this game that just enjoy arguing. *looks at Neruz*

I don't know exactly when deadline will be, but it's coming up soon enough that we should be starting to consider who is and isn't reasonable to lynch. I have no idea if the person I'm voting right now is scum and honestly couldn't give you a good reason I'm voting him besides "It just made sense." I'm willing to accept that we're not lynching any of the names I threw out a few days ago and that's probably for the best. I really have no idea if any of them are scum.

Our current possibilities seem to be Neruz, Xine, and bgg. I don't want to lynch Neruz. I'm still leaning town on Xine. I'm leaning town on bgg, but would be willing to accept that I could be wrong on him. If he's town, we lose a VT and put an end to a lot of the pointless debate clogging up the thread. I would be willing to hammer his lynch at deadline.

I have one more thought I'd like you to consider though (that I came up with while typing up this post). We're having trouble with replacements as is and if you look at Ant_to_the_max's iso, it's really not that impressive. At the very least, it could be a nice counterwagon for anyone thinking the leading wagons are on town. Of course, we wouldn't be able to get a claim out of him before lynch, but I would like *something* useful to happen here.

I can post another apple picture if it will help.

[DeathRowKitty]

Once again, drk++.

I'm not willing to lynch bgg. For one, I did not read anything against him and I do recall that early VT claim, which I believed. So, I'm not voting against him, unless needed to get a lynch in.
Xine has given me some scumvibes during my in-the-coffee-break-iso and I haven't read anything about Neruz.
I do not think it would be viable to go after an ant wagon now. I know why you suggested it, but I think you would also know the result it would lead to tomorrow: status quo. Lynching happens in that small pool of three. Any other suggestion is scummy.

I also think that we should get to a lynch soonish (tomorrow or the day after), regardless of proximity to a deadline.

Damn it Eek, do you

have

to be the voice of reason?

The last half of this day is just completely depressing. We've gotten literally nowhere the last 10 pages at a very minimum.

Unvote

I'm willing to sell my vote to any

reasonable

wagon that springs up. A Neruz wagon is not reasonable. Bgg wagon is a last resort. Somebody mention something else and

please

stop the arguing. You guys are doing nothing but clog the thread. You can figure out who has the biggest e-peen in PM after the game.

[DeathRowKitty]

2. If you have any questions or spot any errors, PM me or post in bold. I will be searching the thread for bolded text, so please refrain from using it outside votes and mod communication.

Sorry about that. Didn't think of it until after I'd already posted. -_-

[DeathRowKitty]

Can you rehash the case on her? I'm pretty much seeing a giant mass of null with an occasional hint of town or scum thrown in.

[DeathRowKitty]

Krazy, do you think GreyICE is scum?

[DeathRowKitty]

Interesting. I asked because of your last post:

Well don't QQ about me "lurking" when you never actually say anything worth responding to. But please, keep just calling me scum, because that's really just 100% pro-town play.

I guess it's asking Ice to force-feed us to ask him to back up any position ever?

Is this always how you treat your town reads?

[DeathRowKitty]

"Yes, this is usually how I treat my town reads because GreyICE is playing badly. No, really, he's playing badly!!111!111"

So Krazy, I thought I'd take a look at your iso. The first thing I noticed was, well, pretty much exactly what GreyICE seems to be talking about. You replaced in and started throwing around a lot of question. "What did you mean by this?" "Do you still believe this?" etc etc etc. It wasn't until your iso #8 that you so much as mention anyone you're suspicious of, at which point you vote bgg for what? Every post he's made the entire game or something?

I started looking through the rest of it, but you really haven't given much of anything since then either. Just more questions for the sake of questions.

Vote: Krazy

. This is a vote I can really get behind.

We have 7 days until deadline if I'm remembering correctly. That's plenty of time to get something useful going. GreyICE, now's your chance. If you're not already voting Krazy (and I'm too lazy to check if you are), vote him now. Neruz, bgg, Hiraki, you guys post often enough, read Krazy in iso and report back.

It's time to get a real wagon going.

[DeathRowKitty]

bgg, the world just doesn't make sense to me regardless of your alignment.

[DeathRowKitty]

Hi Hiraki, let's talk about Krazy. You can start by reading his iso and commenting on that. If you're feeling particularly daring today, you can follow it up with a vote.

[DeathRowKitty]

I assume you're referring to this:

I can't deny that in the last few pages bgg has been 'way better' by comparison, but somehow that only makes the first ten pages of this thread even more absurd, because he clearly understands how to play the game and is well capable of rational thought. To me, his actions this game read like scum tactics trying to trap a potential innocent into a convoluted day one lynch.

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that bgg was scum trying to lure town into doing stupid things by intentionally playing dumb?

[DeathRowKitty]

Also:

My first post was not a vote because I wanted to see if I could get a stronger town read from GreyIce and Llamarble.

Would you vote have been different if you'd had a stronger town read on either of them? Because, y'know, I've always been told to vote for my

scum

reads. Just sayin'

[DeathRowKitty]

Man, I'm grammar failing all over the place here.

Saying "if bgg flips town GreyIce is one of my top candidates" is not the same thing as saying I have a strong town read on GreyIce; and town-read or not I don't see random accusations of being mafia without any evidence as particularly beneficial to the town.

Did I say you claimed to have a strong town read on him? No? Okay. It's fun watching you go to justify it though.

Faster, nervous scum, faster!

[DeathRowKitty]

I voted for my strongest scum read. If GreyIce or Llamarble had seemed much scummier, I would have voted for either of them, instead they broke even and thus I stuck with bgg.

Ah, misinterpreted you as having said you had a town read on them. I still don't see your initial questions as having a purpose.

What are you trying to do here DRK? You just voted me because apparently you thought I was mistreating someone you thought I said I had a scumread on, and now you don't want to say you thought I had a town-read on GreyIce? Are you just trying to make this really convoluted and murky or what?

No, I thought you thought he was town and asked you to confirm it. You did and while you were doing that, I read you in iso and decided you were scummyscumscumsauce. You implied that I thought you had a strong town read on him, whereas I never gave you any reason to believe that. Hence, nervous scum going overboard trying to justify what he said.

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to say that bgg was scum trying to lure town into doing stupid things by intentionally playing dumb?

Yes.

I don't think anything short of you flipping town could ever convince me you believe this and even that would be questionable.

[DeathRowKitty]

So you're on the "bgg's posting style, content, and behavior completely changed ten pages into the game for no reason whatsoever" wagon?

What's the other wagon? Is it the "bgg is gambiting scum who tried to draw townies out by playing scummy when he's actually a smart player" wagon? Mmmm....yeah, I guess I'm on that one you mentioned then.

Aside from that, if you're scum, this argument has ceased being useful. If you're town, this argument has still ceased being useful. Good luck and good day, sir.

Thoughts and opinions from anyone else would be much appreciated. <3

[DeathRowKitty]

ut then, DRK, should I just add this to the list of things you don't want to talk about anymore, like your random caps-lock post a few pages back where you offered a bunch of "gut reads" and no supporting evidence either?

Sure, go ahead. I'm sure you'll do it with love. <3

I see, so when you make up a bunch of reasons to vote for me and I call you on it, the argument has ceased being useful. No wonder you sympathize with GreyIce, who simply refuses to come up with explanations at all.

Have you ever played in a game with a quote war? In case you haven't, let me clue you in. Two players start arguing and it blows up as each player attempts to refute every single point the other player makes. After a while, it doesn't even matter what's being argued. Each player will believe he's right and fight to the death to prove it. There comes a point where continuing the argument hurts town more than it helps. That point has come. If you would like to argue with me ad infinitum and scream about how my attack on you is so scummy and wrong, you're free to do so. I just won't be arguing back quite so loudly.

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually, now that you mention it, what do you think of that caps lock post? Was it deliciously scummy? The only reaction it got out of you initially was another meaningless question.

[DeathRowKitty]

But was that post scummy?

[DeathRowKitty]

Now was that really so hard?

So why was that post scummy? Be sure to include the scum motivation in your explanation.

Edit before posting: I'll try to lighten up on the smilies. I'm kind of drugged up on overly-positive music right now...

[DeathRowKitty]

Sheesh, you couldn't have even come up with a convincing reason to call it scummy? How about the fact that it just completely and arbitrarily overturned my previous reads?

The fact that I posted an apple?

Seriously dude, have you not been reading the past couple pages? Sure, GreyICE pointed out your useless questions first, but I hardly let other make the case on you for me.

[DeathRowKitty]

Hey guys are DRK and Nathaniel the same person?

I don't *think* he's one of my personalities. I assume there's gonna be a punchline here?

[DeathRowKitty]

I proooooobably should have stopped posting a while ago, but I was having too much fun >_>

@bgg
Explain?

[DeathRowKitty]

Hey, hey, I said I wasn't high >_>

I don't recall actually asking you to comment on that specifically until you brought it up a few posts back, but that's cool. I mean, you could argue that's what I was doing in this post, but you'd really be reaching.

[DeathRowKitty]

Does a vote escape you? Preferably for Krazy? :3

[DeathRowKitty]

I seriously almost responded with "^ lol", but then decided to be nice.

Anyway, let's just pretend I was high or drunk or something. I wasn't, but I guess it's not hugely off from my mindset at the time.

But no, seriously, lol at you now accusing me of not explaining "any read ever".

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, Neruz, no discussing ongoing games outside of the game thread....

[DeathRowKitty]

As much as I would love to harass you about why you voted, I think I'd rather just see votes pile up now. Soo.... :goodposting:

[DeathRowKitty]

i think he is scum, and

even if he isnt he should still be lynched.

How about we don't do that?

[DeathRowKitty]

Third: HoS: BGG I don't think I need to justify it seeing his actions this game, but he's not my lynch candidate this phase.

His play's poor to say the least, but not enough to warrant me wanting him hung up today. D2 though? My vote's going on him post haste.

"I don't want to be associated with his lynch now, but I'd love to line up his lynch for later on down the road!"

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait, Mute

seriously

considered bgg being a jester? Lol? Okay, Mute is scum.

Carry on.

[DeathRowKitty]

Your exact wording:

If this is true, I am apprehensive to vote for him. It certainly would explain his antics...

Regardless of whether or not you say you believed it, you

considered

it. How many (non-marathon) games have you seen with a jester? Hm? Any? One, maybe? Town seems scummy behavior and concludes a player is likely scum. Scum sees scummy behavior and, in an attempt to rationalize the player's actions, wonders if that player might be jester. Point stands.

Why would anyone want to revisit a failed wagon on BGG?

Town reason: because you think he's scum and want to, oh, I don't know, LYNCH SCUM.
Scum reason: uhh....none

If you think he's scummy enough that you're already committed to lynching him day 2, you should be looking for him to be lynched today. Once again, point stands.

[DeathRowKitty]

EBWOP

Town

seems

sees scummy behavior

[DeathRowKitty]

Wait, it's even worse.

Third:

HoS: BGG

I don't think I need to justify it seeing his actions this game, but he's not my lynch candidate this phase. His play's poor to say the least, but not enough to warrant me wanting him hung up today. D2 though? My vote's going on him post haste.
What gets me is:

Wrong. Personal belief is save the VI for D2 lynches. D1 should be for lynching scum-potentials, not people acting like asses.

In one post, he gets a HOS and a guarantee you'll vote him tomorrow; in your next, you say he's not even a scum candidate? What the hell changed?

[DeathRowKitty]

Uh...sorry for quadruple post...

As of now, I would likely be willing to join a Mute wagon, were one to spring up.

IGMEOY MUTE

[DeathRowKitty]

And are you accusing me, or someone else, of being scum in this specific instance? I ask that for the bold as it wasn't until Grey suggested it that the thought ever crossed my mind.

No, you don't get to deflect suspicion onto someone else. GreyICE said it in a humorous way. You're the one that decided it made sense. tl;dr: just no.

Oh and:

2) What point, that scum accuse a player of being a jester? What happened to jesters aren't normal-game allowed?

This point is just blatant bs. You said you checked afterwards. The fact that jesters don't exist in normal games has absolutely nothing to do with your considering the possibility.

Where did I even accuse him of being a scum candidate? I said his play is lousy and I gave him a HoS because of that; I'd rather vote someone whom I feel is scum, not a VI.

I'm sorry, I thought your HoS stood for "Hand of

Suspicion

." You must have been using the less common "Horrible, but nOt Scummy." My bad. Seriously.

What I find funny about that quote is that you argue against my point on the basis that you don't think he's scum as if that makes it alright. If you don't think he's scummy, you already have your vote for day 2 deadset on someone you don't think is town. Good one there.

Once again, you're both putting words into my mouth and seeing things that don't exist. These I see as scum-behavior on your part.

Lol.

[DeathRowKitty]

Unofficial Vote Count

bgg1996 (3): Surprise_Carcinogen, Llamarble, Krazy
Neruz (2): Ant_to_the_max, Xine
Xine (2): GreyICE, Hiraki
Krazy (2): DeathRowKitty, Nathanael
Nathanael (1): Neruz
Mute (0):
DeathRowKitty (0):
Pappums Rat (0):
Llamarble (0):
GreyICE (0):
TheButtonmen (0):
My Milked Eek (0):
Hiraki (0):

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting: TheButtonmen, My Milked Eek, bgg1996




There you go. I can haz cookie now?

[DeathRowKitty]

Ughhh, I forgot about the bolding thing againnnn. Sorry >.<

[DeathRowKitty]

Thanks, Xine!

I don't mean to be greedy, but can we get some opinions too?

[DeathRowKitty]

@Mute
When you finish the thread, a roughly-ordered list of suspicions would be nice. You only gave any sort of read on two players in your initial post.

I also just realized the first and last sentence of that post are in direct contradiction, but I'm going to assume that's just because you wrote the first sentence too soon.

[DeathRowKitty]

Oops. I apparently never read that post. Sorry. >_>

[DeathRowKitty]

If you read this and still do not understand, then I am unable to help you.

I'm pretty sure I understood it

until

I read that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Grey, what do you think of Mute? Do you still find Krazy scummy?

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, this is kind of starting to get annoying. We have way too many people checking in and just being like "hey, nice thread, bro." IF YOU ARE IN THIS GAME, THIS IS ADDRESSED TO YOU: THIS IS YOUR THREAD TOO. I know you all enjoy reading my posts. Really, I understand. I assure you my posts won't be drowned out if more than two or three people decide to chime in every once in a while with something useful. My unnecessary amounts of spam will still be here for you to enjoy.

I can post another apple picture if it will help. :/

[DeathRowKitty]

Neruz, which wagons would you be willing to join if they were to lead to a lynch?

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, y'know, we won't get those reactions without actually wagoning them....

[DeathRowKitty]

This actually brings up a good point....Ahem, may I have you attention, please. This is DeathRowKitty with today's words of wisdom.

The lynch of a player is achieved when that player has received more than half of the available votes. In most games, this will require more than half of the current players to be voting for that player.

Now, you may notice that, in the current arrangement of votes, this has not yet happened. In order for a player to be lynched, we will need some number of players to change their votes. This does not happen if everyone is so tunneled that no one is willing to change their votes (a.k.a. what seems to be happening). We won't get anywhere if we don't start putting votes on people. Be

hetero

flexible! If there's someone you find scummy that isn't your top read, but that you think is more likely to be lynched, go ahead and vote! More importantly,

let's do something

. We've had votes shifting back and forth between 3 players most of the day and nothing really happening with any of them. Neruz will not be lynched. It doesn't seem like bgg will be lynched, though that seems to change every other post.

So, yeah, that's about it.

tl;dr: LET'S FORM A GODDAMN WAGON HERE

This was DeathRowKitty with today's words of wisdom. Make it a great day or not; the choice is yours!

Preview Edit: ninja'd by TBM seemingly posting content <3

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't think I even have a reply to that...

[DeathRowKitty]

Okay, I'll bite:

That reminds me, hypothetically, have the cops had a chance to investigate yet?

Why did you want to know this?

Thoughts on that coming after his reply.

[DeathRowKitty]

bgg, 2 questions:

1) What do you consider to be "basic" town and mafia roles? (the types of roles you initially thought were in this game)
2) How do games tend to go where you normally play?

[DeathRowKitty]

Ughhh, fine, how

did

games normally go where you played off-site? What sorts of roles? How long were deadlines? Were you a common early night kill target? etc.

[DeathRowKitty]

Is it bad i still don't think bgg is scum? :/

I have no idea what bgg is doing anymore. Whether he's town or scum, his play just makes no sense whatsoever.

He's not godfather. If he was, I doubt he'd have said he thought there were only vanilla roles in this game. His whole "hmmm...have cops inspected yet?" thing

could

make sense if he were just a mafia goon and he thought a player hyper-tunneling on him was cop, but I don't think that's the case either. Considering explanations he could have given, "I thought I saw somebody acting like a cop. I'm most likely wrong, but that could mean either scum pretending, or an actual cop, who I don't want to lynch." doesn't seem like an explanation he'd give if he were goon.

Things I don't get:
1. Why...WHY would you ask about a cop? aosjgasodjfasdf
2. If bgg isn't used to getting killed early, why bother playing to avoid a night kill?
3. Pretty sure there's something else I'm forgetting...

At this point, I'm pretty sure bgg will end up being lynched (and he probably deserves to be), but I still just don't think he's scum. I don't know.

People Who Desperately Need to Give Content

MyMilkedEek
Llamarble (preferably on something besides bgg)

You can add Xine to that list if you want. And Mute.

[DeathRowKitty]

Xine, comment on something besides the fact that bgg is about to be lynched >.<

[DeathRowKitty]

Also, NO ONE HAMMER UNTIL WE'VE GOTTEN SOMETHING OUT OF EEK, MUTE, AND POSSIBLY LLAMARBLE. WE'VE GOTTEN NOTHING OUT OF EEK ABOUT PAGES 5-20SOMETHING AND MUTE GAVE US HALF OF A CATCH-UP POST AND THEY NEED TO BE LIABLE TO THEIR POSITIONS

[DeathRowKitty]

...

[DeathRowKitty]

inb4 GreyICErage

(Hey, Mute, you should probably run away before he gets here)

[DeathRowKitty]

Well, once Neruz posted here, I figured it wouldn't do any harm if I did too....

I'll wait for Exe to paste the dead QT though.

[DeathRowKitty]

RB being allowed to block AND kill was standard in the old newbie setup to give the RB a chance if the goon died early, but it's pretty non-standard outside of that.

[DeathRowKitty]

Everyone knew there was a roleblocker once you died >_>

@Llamarble
Most of the dead QT hate is directed towards Mute actually....there's probably something there to satisfy your masochism though.

[DeathRowKitty]

Heh...I just realized I made a post in the dead QT for this game that I meant to make in the dead QT for another game. Good thing there was no overlap between the two games... (The other game's since ended.)

[DeathRowKitty]

Anyone with the patience to read through the dead QT probably already knows my thoughts on the game, but I may as well say them here anyway:

Well-played by the scum team. Not necessarily the most impressive play I've seen from a scum team, but you did what you needed to and got into a position in which you could take advantage of town's less-than-ideal play. No use arguing with results.

Town play this game was....interesting. I'm going to gloss over that almost entirely and just comment on two things.
1) Do not speculate on the setup unless you understand setup design and balance. Those of us in the dead QT really wanted to stab some of you when you started saying Llama's role didn't fit in...
2) I kind of felt bad for Llamarble. He really did play that lylo almost perfectly, but there was nothing he could do once Mute voted him.


The setup itself was nice. Masons seem to be getting a lot more popular because of the recent wave of hatred for cops. I think there's an interesting argument to be made from it though that actions in normal games should either be standardized or stated beforehand by the mod. When GreyICE made his claim of being either PGO or doctor, he would never have guessed that a roleblocker could block a PGO, since passive actions usually can't be blocked. From what the mod said, that didn't actually play into the scum's decision to block him, but, well, it really should have and it could have been a big deal. Also of note, if I'd had the tracker role, I wouldn't have thought to ask the mod whether or not the roleblocker was allowed to kill and block because it's so rare outside of newbie games. The scum team didn't even realize it until night 2 and that got one of their goons tracked to a kill (he was likely going down anyway, but it didn't help...). It's not that there was anything inherently wrong with the action resolution Exe was using...it's just unexpected in a normal game. Anyone here have thoughts on that? (I'll probably turn it into an MD thread later.)

[DeathRowKitty]

"orry, the page (or document) you have requested does not exist.

Please check the address and try again."

[DeathRowKitty]

I clearly didn't miss the starting S when copying that. It was spelled like that on the page.