Mini 1126 - Game over - Was Averagely Suspicious saved?

[bvoigt]

Hey, everyone!

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Ugh, I'm having trouble getting definite reads in this game. Erratus Apathos is my strongest town read, because scum would have no reason to announce that they weren't voting to start the day. I also feel that subgenius is a townie getting attacked for poor play rather than scummy play.

Wikkiden is probably scum. EA's #367 is a good catch; "I truly didn't count the votes" is clearly a lie after saying, "Oh yes. My vote sucks. Along with the six other people voting for him."

Snake Eyes is another scumread. He has "a strong scum read" on Bill for "going after all the really obvious targets." But Bill was the biggest wagon when SE voted for him, so wouldn't Bill himself be the most obvious target?

I know this a pretty lousy catch-up post, but I find more stuff to comment on when I'm not reading several pages at a time. Plus, I think we've had enough wallposts for one game.

VOTE: wikkiden

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I also feel that subgenius is a townie getting attacked for poor play rather than scummy play.

Why do you think he's town?

Town reads are kind of difficult to explain, but this is one example of what I mean:

3. Honestly, I haven't played in awhile, and what you're saying about Zito type comments might be true. Although it is scumtell #5 according to https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia. I'll readily admit that I haven't played or read as many games as you probably have so it's entirely possible I'm way off base on this one.

It's not good play because those tells have been obsolete for years. However, it shows a town motivation because he's taking the time to read an article on how to find the scum.

[bvoigt]

True, I really can't think of a scum motivation for reading an article on scumtells and memorizing it.

Wait...

Whatever, I don't know how to explain it but subgenius is town.

Really interested in your opinion of Barry plz.

He looks like scum. ISO #13 bugs me because right after a votecount, he supports the second-largest wagon and adds to the largest wagon. I also don't like his latest post. It reads to me like, "I'm not going to take my vote off of the bandwagon, but I'm going to set up the next lynch once Sub flips town."

[bvoigt]

In case it wasn't obvious, the sentence in quotation marks is my translation, not something Barry actually said.

[bvoigt]

Snake Eyes is another scumread. He has "a strong scum read" on Bill for "going after all the really obvious targets." But Bill was the biggest wagon when SE voted for him, so wouldn't Bill himself be the most obvious target?

"Nice job" using quotation marks from different sentences in different posts to prove a point you want to make instead of one that actually exists! Here's the full sentence:

I'm more concerned with you going after all the really obvious targets and generally attacking bad play rather than finding scum.

IMO, the obvious targets usually are the worst players, so those 2 points mean pretty much the same thing to me.

Most of my scumread comes indeed from the last part that you left out and his subsequent lurking. It looked like he was making just a cursory attempt at scumhunting by pointing out the mistakes and bad plays people made and then pretended they were all some major scumtells, when they really looked more like newbie mistakes.

He wasn't lurking at the time, so that didn't really have any effect on your original vote.

As for me going for the biggest wagon, is that supposed to be scummy? I voted him the first chance I got after the game started. Moreover, am I still supposed to be going after the most obvious target? Seems to me that would be subgenius, and I would much prefer a Bill lynch over sub lynch. This is a bad case.

It doesn't matter if he's not the biggest wagon anymore. It was scummy for you to vote the most obvious target for "going after all the really obvious targets and generally attacking bad play rather than finding scum."

[bvoigt]

It was scummy for you to vote the most obvious target for "going after all the really obvious targets and generally attacking bad play rather than finding scum."

So it's the perceived hypocrisy that's your issue? Seems like a pretty petty point to me but fair enough.

Yeah.

I take it you have more reason to suspect wikkiden than you wrote earlier since you're still voting for him? Or do you disagree with me on EA's catch?

I disagree, because once Bill called him out for it, wikki responded:

@the 5 other people thing, excuse me for misspeaking. I wasn't aware that human beings were expected to never make mistakes nowadays. >.<

At least to me, this makes it sound like he knew the number of votes, and miscounted.

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@ bvoigt - if you disagree with SE on wikki, why is your vote still on wikki? I don't get that.

What do you mean? SE doesn't agree with Erratus's catch, but I do.

[bvoigt]

@ bvoigt - if you disagree with SE on wikki, why is your vote still on wikki? I don't get that.

What do you mean? SE doesn't agree with Erratus's catch, but I do.

The world will rejoice if you add some damn content to this thread.

Your ISO is failure, absurdity and one liners.

No.

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Papa Zito wanted my top 3 so here goes:

1. RobCapone for his sarcasm, also because of what GreyICE pointed out earlier this page about him jumping to Conclusions.

2. Barry Allen Its just a gut feeling.

3. Snake Eyes seems like to me he has been lurking a bit.

Vote:RobCapone

Someone said that Rob's poor cases are a scumtell. But with posts like these, I really don't think this wagon is going to get a scum lynched. I'm sticking with my wiki/penpen vote for now, although Barry would also be a good vote after looking at Papa Zito's ISO #19.

[bvoigt]

...

The world will rejoice if you add some damn content to this thread.

Your ISO is failure, absurdity and one liners.

Agreed.

Thanks.

[bvoigt]

Sorry, guys. I promise a good post tomorrow.

[bvoigt]

btw I am going to bed, if I wake up to being L-1 I will hammer myself as town and not bat an eye lash.

my record already shows I will do it, so remove this wagon on me or be prepared for the most epic fail of all times.

I thought you said you weren't giving up?

GreyICE is probably scum. Not long after the substrike wagon starts losing steam, he just silently slips off for a Rob vote. After all the heavy rhetoric Grey used on substrike, if he changed his read I would expect him to say something about it, and if he didn't change his read, I wouldn't expect him to jump off it for a weak-ass case on Rob. On top of that, there is his ridiculously ridiculous waffle on Ashblade:

Ashblade, not saying you haven't found scum, but my god that was such a scumpost.

(sorry, Ashblade is just too town. It might be one of his scum talents, but if it is, he's got me fooled).

*snort*

If I'm scum I make a lot more sense and read a lot more town. It's really easy when I KNOW all the alignments, I don't have to change my reads or move my vote much because who cares? I'm getting a townie lynched.

If I'm town I actually have to make the best lynch possible, the one I think most likely to hit scum.

Now Rob's claim... huh. I'm so not sure what to say. Did you breadcrumb it anywhere?

EA mentioned this already, but I do not like this post at all. You totally ignored his actual case, and basically used self-meta to clear yourself. What's your response to his point about Ashblade? Why did you call him scum in one post and obvtown in another?

I'm sticking with my wiki/penpen vote for now, although Barry would also be a good vote after looking at Papa Zito's ISO #19.

Why Barry out of the five other people on that list?
It seems like penpen is as good as a no-vote if you're not going to put his feet to the fire a little bit.

Barry and Bill were the two most blatant wagoners. By that, I mean that they joined both of the wagons fairly late. And so far, I haven't really noticed anything scummy about Bill, whereas Barry has looked slightly scummy. I'll address penpen in my next post.

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OK...penpen is looking like one of those players who always survives to endgame because the town won't lynch him, and scum won't NK him. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to tell you right now that if we were both in 3-person LyLo, I would vote for him (assuming nothing drastic happens, but you know what I mean). We're going to have to lynch him eventually, so why not today?

I've decided to put my vote back on Rob. I don't think he is doing a very good job scum hunting even though he is posting a lot.

Vote:RobCapone

This post is ironic and ridiculous. No offense, but your scumhunting has been extremely poor. If you're town, and not scumhunting very well, how is poor scumhunting a scumtell?

I see rob now as being as PRO Town as Papa Zito and everyone knows papa zito is pro town.

What caused your change of opinion on Rob?

Pie is OK - but not cake.....the cake is a lie...

I think the Pie is a lie also. Which means he is misrepresenting the pie.
And I think that is scummy.

What does this even mean?

[bvoigt]

Hopefully, penpen will answer my questions soon.

For those who think I'm trying to get a VI policy lynch, I'm not. I'm trying to get a scum-VI lynched. wikkiden was shown to be lying scum, and penpen has done nothing pro-town. He's expressed suspicion of ~6 people (half the game, in other words), and his Rob vote in ISO #12 was especially bad. Oh and Snake Eyes, you can check my posts from yesterday. This was the only game I had time to post in.

EA mentioned this already, but I do not like this post at all. You totally ignored his actual case, and basically used self-meta to clear yourself. What's your response to his point about Ashblade? Why did you call him scum in one post and obvtown in another?

So not only are you posting garbage, you're not even reading the damn thread and blatantly sheeping others cases?

Vote:bvoight

Maybe if you put one lick of effort into the thread you'd have done one single thing this thread that wasn't scummy. But you haven't. If we don't lynch you someday, you're still going to be alive at LyLo, because either you're scum, or you're town so dumb that you CAN'T EVEN READ THE THREAD.

Please show me what about Ashblade's play made you change your mind about him.

[bvoigt]

Still following the GreyICE wagon, and also find his refusal to explain some very obvious contradictions and flip-flops quite scummy.

Why aren't you doing anything about this read? Lulz.

Hey Grey, if you have a scumread on penpen, then why do you say I don't have a decent reason to vote him?

[bvoigt]

There's questions I care to answer from scum?

Ashblade, not saying you haven't found scum, but

my god that was such a scumpost

. Hey Subsy, if there's so little "town" motivations for my behavior, shouldn't your vote be on me? Or are you just casting suspicion around on people who are pushing your wagon?

Wait a second...were you saying that Ashblade was scumposting, or subgenius was scumposting?

[bvoigt]

@mod:

Grey isn't self-voting. I believe you should replace his name with Rob's.

You're certainly right. Fixed and the counter is at three now.

[bvoigt]

hey bvoight, when can we expect more content from you instead of you just cherry picking things to talk about?

When penpen logs in and answers my questions.

When the fuck did I ever call Ashblade scum, you misrepresenting scumbag?

I didn't. You're lazy and trying to push a case through misrepresentation. That's worse than Rob - Rob could actually think that he's fucking reading when he's being that stupid. You? I see no reason that you would be that lazy from your other games.

So what's going on bvoight? Did you fall on your head recently? Or did you pull a red pm?

Apparently you aren't reading, either. See post #661.

[bvoigt]

Ugh, penpen may be a newbie/VI, but newbies can be scum.

[bvoigt]

I was going to wait for Grey's next post before deciding what I thought of him, but....

[bvoigt]

(I wrote this overnight. It's an annoying wall-of-text, but since you guys have been asking for more content, and pressure on more than one suspect, here you go.)

Now

can we lynch penpen? I was going to give him a chance to answer a few questions before I made my case, but if he can't even find them....

I've already been over wikkiden's slip, but here it is again:

Oh yes. My vote sucks. Along with the six other people voting for him.

I know no one will believe me, but I truly didn't count the votes, nor did it occur to me how serious my voting would be.

In my eyes, the second quote is clearly a lie, and town would have no reason to lie in that situation. Snake Eyes said that it's not valid because there were actually only 5 other votes. However, if it was just a reactionary post, and wikkiden simply had a general idea that there were several votes, why did he say this?

@the 5 other people thing, excuse me for misspeaking. I wasn't aware that human beings were expected to never make mistakes nowadays. >.<

It looks to me like he

did

count the number of votes, just incorrectly.

I've decided to put my vote back on Rob. I don't think he is doing a very good job scum hunting even though he is posting a lot.

Vote:RobCapone

This post by penpen is especially bad. I don't think I have to prove to anyone that his scumhunting has been lousy. It does not make any sense for a townie to make this vote when they've done the same thing. Rather, I think it's scum looking for any excuse to place a vote on the biggest wagon.

The worst part of penpen's play, though, is that he's literally expressed suspicion of, or voted for, 8 different people: RobCapone, Barry Allen, Snake Eyes, subgenius, Hiraki, Bill McQuill, Erratus Apathos, and GreyICE. This looks like someone who is trying to get anyone besides himself killed, rather than someone who is looking for scum.

So, penpen is still my first choice for a lynch. I'd be happy to lynch Barry as well, though. He's placed mid-to-late votes on several major wagons: Erratus Apathos, subgenius, and GreyICE.

There are actually two things that make me worry about my vote for sub.

1. Finding out that sub is actually playing with a "list-o-scumtells" that can actually explain his behavior, even though those scumtells are outdated. GreyICE could be right that using the list isn't a guarantee of affiliation, but it does at least explain a lot about how sub is playing.

2. Bill's vote - and here's why. Other players already noted Bill fading from the thread for quite a period of time as the heat ramped up on sub. When called out on his absence, Bill comes back with a wall-o-text, and immediately votes the only other player with more votes than himself, taking said player (sub) to L-1. This could be a townie trying to appeal to the town with action after being called for inactivity - or it could be maf trying to move us to a quicker lynch in order to keep the heat off himself. @ Bill - if that sounds "negative", sorry but I don't know how to put this more positively...no, wait, how about this...I am "positive" that this looks a bit scummy.

Sub - your own posts haven't helped you. You've mostly lashed out at me and a couple of other folks, with some strained logic and implied motivations - but again if you are using JEEP's list for scumtells it is possible that you are inexperienced enough that this is just how you post (you've been on the site for a long time but IIRC haven't played much lately - someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this). But, with EA taking his vote off you we are back to L-2, meaning we do have time to talk more. Bill's vote isn't enough to take my own vote off you, but it is enough that I want to hear more before we do a quickhammer here.

As I've mentioned, I don't like this post because it stays with the vote on subgenius, but sets up Bill to be the next lynch when Sub presumably flips town. He eventually changed his vote, but not until

after

the Sub wagon fell apart:

A lot has happened since I was last on thread...let me do this first, as I already promised to do some serious thinking about my sub case...

VOTE: UNVOTE

Subs - you didn't convince me with the "No YOU are" posts...but again two things nagged at me. First was knowing you were using that old guide, which really explained your posts and made it plausible that you were playing with less actual playing experience than would seem likely given when you joined the site. The second is now even more apparent to me...the only other vote for you is from Bill, and I've been looking very dimly at Bill for some time (first trying to choose between Bill and wikki, and later Bill and you).

Note that he doesn't have any new reasons for disliking his vote...the only thing that has changed is the size of the wagon. Once again, it really looks like Barry is just trying to help encourage wagons and keep himself alive.

VOTE: penpen

[bvoigt]

Vote: Papa Zito

For convincing me to vote to lynch a townie.

OK, that makes 9 people he's expressed suspicion of. penpen, what do you have to say about the accusation that you're basically just flinging random votes around?

[bvoigt]

Vote: Papa Zito

For convincing me to vote to lynch a townie.

OK, that makes 9 people he's expressed suspicion of. penpen, what do you have to say about the accusation that you're basically just flinging random votes around?

Well I don't see anything wrong with that since most of what you are talking about is Day 1.

What do you mean? Even on Day 1, you should have at least a general idea of your suspicions.

[bvoigt]

Any comments on my penpen case?

Also, I had a scum read on Snake Eyes at one point, but it kind of died out before the day is over.

[bvoigt]

@mozamis: Don't discuss ongoing games.

Actually, I just re-read the flavor from D1 and D2, and there is some info to be found:

There was a note found next to the nameless murder victim of N0 which read, "You're next." There was an identical note found next to Ashblade. There was no note found with Snake Eyes.

This would lead me to believe that Ashblade was the mafia NK and Snake Eyes was hit by either a vig, a serial killer, or a non-note leaving second scum faction. I'm guessing SK.

Good catch. IIRC, Papa Zito was saying that Ashblade was probably a vig kill, so this makes him very likely to be town.

Well alright how about bvoigt, he seems to be doing the whole active lurking thing too. And I think his case on me and Barry are complete bullshit.

Oh, really? Why?

[bvoigt]

He could, but it's not very likely.

I'm reeeeeally hoping Ashblade was a vig shot, because a vig would be welcomed re: penpen.

If he was mafia, he'd know that Snake Eyes was not their kill.

Preview Edit: It's rule #2 of this game.

[bvoigt]

Vote: Erratus

His vote on Bill is crappola.

What makes his vote worse than the others?

@penpen: In case you missed it, I asked why my cases on you and Barry are B.S. Also, you have now expressed suspicion of 10 different people.

[bvoigt]

OK. Obviously, I still want to lynch penpen, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Let's see what happens when I:

UNVOTE: penpen
VOTE: Barry Allen

[bvoigt]

Barry, it often seems like you go out of your way to avoid being accused of OMGUS. Here's a townie thought process: this might get me accused of OMGUS, but if he's scum, it will be worth it. Here's a scum thought process: this might get me accused of OMGUS, so I'm going to avoid it.

BTW, I'm fairly sure Papa Zito is town.

[bvoigt]

I'm not 100% sure, but like I said earlier, he assumed that the scum killed Snake Eyes when they actually killed Ashblade.

[bvoigt]

I'm not 100% sure, but like I said earlier, he assumed that the scum killed Snake Eyes when they actually killed Ashblade.

It could be faked by scum, yes, but I don't see why he would bother when no one had figured out the kill flavor yet.

[bvoigt]

And I think his case on me and Barry are complete bullshit.

Still waiting for an explanation of this.

[bvoigt]

ah, pressurising penpen again?
how did that work out for ya last time?

Other than mudslinging, what's the point of this?

[bvoigt]

Well then, explain why the points I made are invalid.

[bvoigt]

Because Bill honestly wasn't that bad. The only reasoning I can see for half of this wagon is that he's inactive. That's not a very good reason at all. EA, on the otherhand, just randomly sees Bill as a target. Scum bells should've rung long ago.

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Your top suspects for all of Day 1 were Rob and Bill. Now, you're actually voting someone for voting Bill, and Rob doesn't even appear to be on your radar anymore.

UNVOTE: Barry Allen
VOTE: Hiraki

@EA: Why do you think Barry is town?

[bvoigt]

And why dont you read the thread properly you idiot instead of being rude to people?

*facepalm*

[bvoigt]

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Your top suspects for all of Day 1 were Rob and Bill

I stopped reading there.

IIRC, they were your only non-random votes for the entire day.

Wow, it's like reads change over time! What an amazing discovery Magellan!

The problem wasn't that your reads changed, it was how drastically your reads changed. Did anyone that you voted D1 do anything drastically different D2?[/quote]

This is rather ironic and contradictory. Your reads also changed drastically from D1 to D2.

[bvoigt]

OK, this is getting ridiculous. Your top suspects for all of Day 1 were Rob and Bill

I stopped reading there.

IIRC, they were your only non-random votes for the entire day.

Wow, it's like reads change over time! What an amazing discovery Magellan!

The problem wasn't that your reads changed, it was how drastically your reads changed. Did anyone that you voted D1 do anything drastically different D2?

This is rather ironic and contradictory. Your reads also changed drastically from D1 to D2.

[bvoigt]

1) This shows that you've

really

been reading the thread.

2) Have you ever heard of a reaction test?(On iPod so no quotes.)

The problem with mine is that no one reacted.

1. It's pretty unreasonable to say that the only people you voted weren't actually your main suspects.
2. So, your reaction tests lasted the entire day?

[bvoigt]

1. Can you read the thread before I rage?

No, I'm lazy. Just spell it out for me, please.

2. Not sure what you're trying to get by this question. I don't think Bill is scum, but I made the case and vote as a test. No one said anything, which is

quite

alerting. Could you really call my case on Bill good?

Not really, but it wasn't lousy enough to comment on. Still, once you realized that no one was commenting, why did you hold onto the vote for a long time, and even come back to it late in the day?

[bvoigt]

No, I'm lazy. Just spell it out for me, please.

Perfect. You just need to stop assuming and start looking.

#34 of my ISO should be satisfactory.

Um...what? That post expresses suspicion of Rob. I'm saying that you've ignored your top suspects (Bill and Rob) from D1.

Not really, but it wasn't lousy enough to comment on. Still, once you realized that no one was commenting, why did you hold onto the vote for a long time, and even come back to it late in the day?

Because I wanted to see if someone would be alert. Notice. Y'know that kind of stuff.

If you didn't believe in your Bill vote, it doesn't seem pro-town to hold onto it for so long. Obviously, we have to lynch scum to win. It doesn't look like that was your main priority.

[bvoigt]

@sub: Just FYI, AGar replaced penpen.

[bvoigt]

@EA: Why do you think Barry is town?

581.

Were there any concrete towntells, or just a general feeling of sincere scumhunting?

@AGar: Have you read the entire thread?

[bvoigt]

Um...what? That post expresses suspicion of Rob. I'm saying that you've ignored your top suspects (Bill and Rob) from D1.

Yuck. I meant 35. My bad.

Ah, you're just ignoring him because he's a claimed PR?

If you didn't believe in your Bill vote, it doesn't seem pro-town to hold onto it for so long. Obviously, we have to lynch scum to win. It doesn't look like that was your main priority.

I'll laugh, and take this one as a joke. Or, perhaps this means you really need to read.

You voted Bill for a while, and then you said that he "honestly wasn't that bad." Explain to me what I've been missing.

[bvoigt]

1. Excuse. Sigh.

2. So you don't like my tone. Hmmzorz.

3. Can you re-read that sentence? You sound like a whining baby. I have done things all game, and just because I haven't done things that you've wanted me to do, doesn't mean that I have done absolutely nothing.

This is a terrible defense.

And so therefore, I didn't go the easy way and buss Bill because um.

Well umm.

Dunno.

Wow. Let's lynch this guy.

BTW, why do pod person and Bill both have the location "In a safe place"?

[bvoigt]

I'm saying that your remark indicates that you know Bill is scum as well as yourself.

[bvoigt]

In some ways, i hope its 5) and then WE CAN JUST MOVE ON! Otherwise we could be heading down a blind "bill mcquills alt" alley, which may not be productive for scum hunting.

While I would like to know why their locations are the same, it's not really important, and definitely not productive for scumhunting. Also, you can open a new tab with File-New Tab, or Ctrl-T.

@Barry: Were you writing #981 when sub posted #980?

[bvoigt]

My theory is that pod person is somebody's (probably not Bill's) gimmick account, and the gimmick is to replace into games and change the account's personal info to match the person who dropped out as much as possible.

QFT. Now, let's move on to actual scumhunting.

For someone who usually likes to stick with his own opinions, Hiraki's change of mind seems rather odd from #1004 to #1011. It looks to me like once he realized there was a chance to get Pod lynched for a silly reason, he jumped on it.

[bvoigt]

I don't really buy the case on Rob.

[bvoigt]

I'm asking what defense Rob is presenting. The only thing I see is, "lmao. im town tracka. no more defending from this point forward because im town."

He's also drawn attention to the speed of his wagon.

[bvoigt]

@Hiraki
If you don't answer my questions, I'll be forced to assume that you have no reason to think that pod person is scummy and are voting him anyway in an obvious attempt to bolster the competing wagon. I would hope that anybody watching would arrive at the same conclusion.

That's my conclusion. Time to lynch him!

[bvoigt]

@Barry: Were you writing #981 when sub posted #980?

Since we're talking about not answering questions, when were you planning on getting to this?

Hey Barry, I think you missed this.

[bvoigt]

@Barry: Were you writing #981 when sub posted #980?

I did miss that question - but the question makes no sense, considering I

quoted sub's post 980 in my post 981

, and my post was made nearly an hour later. I would have posted my questions for Pods anyway...and the fact that subs

didn't

have questions struck me as odd.

I did think making fun of pods "suspicion" of our GM was a good first take to point out why I don't take Pods very seriously - after all Pods took the spot of someone I've suspected of being scum for some time.

With the anti-ninja feature, it's easy to quote a post that was made at the same time as yours. Plus, it looked like #981 took a while to write.

Anyway, the point I was getting at was, why didn't you post your questions for him right away? Since you made 2 fluff posts right before sub asked if you had questions, why did you wait to ask them until someone pressured you? It looks like you were just trying to appease him.

[bvoigt]

@ bvoigt - I already replied to you in post 1073, where I stated:
"I did think making fun of pods "suspicion" of our GM was a good first take to point out why I don't take Pods very seriously - after all Pods took the spot of someone I've suspected of being scum for some time."

I was going to ask the questions of Pods no matter what - but that "suspicion" of our GM was either so LOL or so dumb that it needed to be pointed out. I don't think making fun of someone's really dumb post is "appeasing them", especially since I have consistently FoS'd Bill/Pods for quite some time now.

I meant that you were appeasing Sub after he asked if you had any questions. While I don't find your explanation very convincing, I guess it is a pretty minor point, so I'll let it go.

Pressure. I answered the other one somewhere. I'm still sure that it's Bill though.

This post is an example of how terribly Hiraki is scumhunting. If pods isn't your top suspect (at least, it doesn't sound like he is), why do you still have your now-useless vote on him? Actually, who are your top suspects?

[bvoigt]

Sorry, I'm here, but don't have time to make a good post right now.

[bvoigt]

Actually, I have a few minutes now. In case it is 2:1:4 right now, would it be beneficial to massclaim?

I'm feeling like subgenius, Papa, and Erratus are probably town, and Barry and AGar are probably scum. I'm still not sure about pod person, but if there is a 3rd scum, it's probably him.

I agree with Erratus that #1125 was bad. Sure, you decided not to hop on the Hiraki wagon, and you decided not to vote the tracker, but you were considering both of those possibilities.

[bvoigt]

@ bvoigt - again, simply pointing out that I've been consistently on Pods for some time. You may not like my posting style - but we've seen in this round that such a view has nothing to do with affiliation. No one was more rude, personal or insulting than Rob, who really was what he said he was (tracker).

As Sub said, your posting style wasn't the issue. The issue was that, despite considering a vote for Rob and Hiraki, you tried to cast others in a bad light because they did vote for Rob and Hiraki. I don't see why a townie would do that.

refusing to join the easy Hiraki BW

I've been trying to decide between Hiraki and Pods

These two quotations don't really match up. You didn't refuse to join the bandwagon, you decided between Hiraki and Pod.

Perversely, I'm beginning to lessen my scum read on you Barry, not because you've convinced me with anything that you've written, but because I'm starting to think that your utter inability to comprehend and address points about why you're scum is because you're completely sure of your town alignment and can't process why someone would think otherwise. It still irritates the bejesus out of me, though.

This is an interesting point, but it's not enough to keep me from a

VOTE: Barry Allen

[bvoigt]

@AGar: Why the unvote, and why the vote for PZ?

@Mod:

I think pod person is still voting Barry.

Fixed, thank you.

[bvoigt]

Also is it just me or was that Barry vs. pods bit at the beginning entirely fabricated?

Why do you say this?

[bvoigt]

I guess those look like different questions to me. I'm asking why he thinks your argument with pod person was fabricated.

[bvoigt]

I'm here. What should I do?

[bvoigt]

OK, whatever. I thought there might be a small chance of still winning if I claimed scum, but I'm just a VT.

I'm leaning towards letting Barry win, because it's much easier to be one of 3 mafiosos than to go solo. On the other hand, I did have Barry pegged as scum for most of the game. What do you think, PZ?

Also, do you have NK immunity, Barry?

[bvoigt]

I'm gonna trust PZ on this one.

VOTE: No Lynch

[bvoigt]

WIFOM yay.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: No Lynch

If we all live, I think it will be a tie, and I'll take that over a win for Barry or the mafia.

[bvoigt]

Hmm.

[bvoigt]

Remember when everyone got irritated because I wanted to lynch penpen?

[bvoigt]

I don't blame you for handing out "I told you so's" on that, but it was still a crappy case.

You're right; my case on him, and play in general, was pretty bad on Day 1. I'd like to think I improved from that point, though. A few other comments:

I'm no expert on game balance, but I feel like this one was kinda tough for town to win, especially since the mafia doc lowered the chance of crosskills. But it was still fun, and smoothly modded. Good game everyone, and thanks, Dekes.

I wish a few of you would tone down the wallposts. They're OK once in a while, but an average post doesn't need to be in essay format. I know I'm more willing to read and accept an argument if it's concise.

[bvoigt]

Remember when everyone got irritated because I wanted to lynch penpen?

The case was purely because he was a VI. VIs aren't always scum.

No, it wasn't. I don't support policy lynches, but I do support lynching VIs when I think they're scum.

BTW, what would have been the best way to play in the 1:1:2 endgame?

[bvoigt]

Terran

Mafia OP.

lulz

GG all.

Um...what?

[bvoigt]

Ah, I didn't know OP stood for overpowered.

[bvoigt]

I don't remember you explaining anything....