Mafia 1114: Jim's Mafia - Game OVER!!!!

[Jerbs]

My timezone is EST, I've played 6 or 7 games on MS, and I usually try to post at least once a day

It looks like things have started off without me.

Ok, I agree policy Lynching will get us nowhere. It is a horrible idea, ad will turn up a town, witch won't help the town. Suggesting it is scummy, but for now I am inclined to leave mute alone.

How do you know policy lynching Mute will have him flip town?

Excellent. This game has developed quickly and nicely, and is now fully developing in to real discussion. I will

unvote

now, as my vote has served its purpose and then some. I got a town impression from Javert responding to my overly strong accusation.

I've bolded the hyperbole.

Yes. The hyperbole was intended.

I feel like it is perfectly reasonable to question making two random votes. One completely random vote (I.E. voting someone because of their name) is inherently completely useless to the game. Two is doing something useless again. I've stated previously what things a player can do to advance the game, with both myself and Javert (and some others) having done some of these. I simply wanted to know if he was random voting for the purpose of having fun (completely innocent) or, more tellingly, if he was random voting because he though he was helping the game along. By random voting and claiming he was attempting to advance the game, I get the impression that he is trying to make himself look as if he is doing more, posting more, etc. than he really is.

Furthermore, I am absolutely disgusted by his consideration of policy lynching on day 2. David said everything I feel about that, essentially. I'd feel inclined to vote mute for the policy lynch suggestion alone as lynching someone based off of a random vote is not town motivated at all, and helps scum by causing confusion, robbing town of a lynch, and proceeding to night without having sufficient information gained. Everything else just makes me want to vote him even more.

Vote Mute.

We need some real content out of manut, Prox, magnus, and Rob.

Lets see

You voted people based on their name. That doesn't do anything to get discussion going. There are some things people do to get discussion going, such as bandwagoning, voting people supporting bandwagons, asking questions, reaction hunting, etc. However, simply making random votes for random reasons do nothing of what you said.

By generating discussion about random voting twice, I believe Mute is helping the game along

I've stated previously what things a player can do to advance the game, with both myself and Javert (and some others) having done some of these.

What exactly did you do to intentionally advance the game? As Javert said

I rather doubt that ICEninja would have eventually said "I was purposefully using hyperbole to try to see who else would vote Javert" if somebody had not called him out on it explicitly. Claiming to have a "solid" scum tell and then backtracking to say it was all intentional and harmless hyperbole to gauge reactions sounds like you just got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. And now you are trying to explain it away as being the Surprise Cookie Inspector. Attacking a player with a bad argument and then explaining it away as purposefully using a bad argument is not sitting with me.

P.s. I know manutdforever also ignored the happenings of this game, but he is by far the less experienced player and has almost no mafiascum experience. I still find it scummy he ignored the Javert wagon but less condemning. Rob, on the other hand, there is no excuse for as a "seasoned veteran". Also, as a newbie he may have just been following the example of the experienced poster before him.

I second this. From the game that I played with manutd he kinda doesn't post much and follows the experienced players around. And I know Rob posts alot. However, his excuse does seem real

As of now, I have an imaginary vote on ICE. I'm just too damn lazy to actually count the votes and don't want to risk putting him in range of a quicklynch

[Jerbs]

Ok, I agree policy Lynching will get us nowhere. It is a horrible idea, ad will turn up a town, witch won't help the town. Suggesting it is scummy, but for now I am inclined to leave mute alone.

How do you know policy lynching Mute will have him flip town?

Not at all what he said. You seem to be paying little attention. Mute was the one who suggested a policy lynch on Javert for being Anti-town. Manut didn't suggest one on Mute.

@Jerbs: Do you have a scum-suspect?

Sorry. Replace Mute with Javert in my post. What I meant was that manut said "It is a horrible idea,

ad will turn up a town

" This seems to mean that manutd knows that Javert is town.

My scum suspect would be ICE. Prox hasn't done much and I would like him to post more, as well as Edge. Prox especially, cause most of his posts are contentless

First, my talk about bussing was in direct relation to Ice's argument that

Jarbes

was either hypocritical or knew who scum was (making himself scum) and your subsequent argument that bussing might cause a modkill. I denied the validity of your statement. My position is that I don't even care if he is bussing. We do not have enough information, at the moment, to make that kind of associations.

Do you mean Javert? Or Jerbs? I would asssume Javert because at that point I had only made one post, and was not tied up in the whole Javert thing

Edger wrote:
There's a clear difference between somebody taking a (what should have been) clearly baiting action early at the very start of the game and somebody (ie you) being an ostensibly serious wagon for the same silly reason that many people were joining the wagon and then saying "Teehee I was faking it"

Well as I stated in my last post, I've never seen that "clearly baiting action" before. I figured it was just RVS play that could have been fueled with scum knowledge. As I've said countless times before, it was the strongest case I could make with what I had. I never said "teehee I was faking it". I never faked anything. Why do people keep making up things about what I did? I simply stated that I over-pushed the wagon based on the strength of the case.

Hmmm...

Also, the only way Javert could overtly know that magnus is scum is if he is his scum buddy. I too, as indicated by a comment made earlier in this post (that is now obsolete but I don't feel like deleting for transparency reasons), believed he voted a player for reasons of not posting yet. Simply declaring a player scum without "if" is one of the most solid scum tells in the game, I'd say. I don't usually make serious votes like this so early, but...

Vote Javert

.

then

Regardless of alignment, I make these votes and back out on them just like I would RVS votes, because I don't usually believe alignment can be determined by what happens on the first 2 pages of a game, barring strange occurrences.

Claiming to have a "solid" scum tell and then backtracking to say it was all intentional and harmless hyperbole to gauge reactions sounds like you just got caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

Actually, it sounds like I did something very similar to what you did. You stated that "magnus is scum", and voted for him. I stated that "Javert is scum and this is why", and voted for you. You unvoted when it was obvious the purpose of your vote was served, and I unvoted when it was obvious the purpose of my vote was served. You are somewhat hypocritical to be calling me scummy for this.

You never faked anything? Yet you said you have a solid tell on Javert, then later said you just used the hyperbole for reaction hunting purposes.

Vote: ICEninja

He's also kinda overcautious, with a bit of recklessness to make himself seem town

ICEninja is now at L-2 (according to him)

[Jerbs]

f
@jerbs:

He's also kinda overcautious, with a bit of recklessness to make himself seem town

This is at worst contradictory and at best vague. examples and explanation please.

He seems, as Prox said, to be watching carefully and planning everything he posts.

He sounds like such a phony.

He's so apologetic and polite. He's perfectly reasoned and never leaves out a word.

However, he jumped on Javert early on, and played a bit reckless. According to

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... cklessness

This shows that ICE is cautious, yet at some points in the game seems to fake recklessness to try to look town

[Jerbs]

In this post, stuff I say will be in

orange

You overemphasize how good discussion is for Town, and it looks completely contrived

A quick scan through my games shows that I'm no fan of the RVS. I didn't overemphasize anything, I just personally want discussion to get serious quickly. You're interpreting this as something scummy when it is not.

I've looked through a few of you games, and while it does seem that you really dislike RVS, you don't seem to do things such as complementing the town on getting out of RVS.

You basically say you were "pretending" to look scummy

You made this up. I never did this. I said, for the 6th or so time that I exaggerated the best case I could make. I didn't do anything scummy.

Exaggerating a case on someone, then pulling back is scummy. U said that you had a solid tell on someone, then said you were lying.

You claim to be "disgusted" with the mention of policy lynching

I was. It was an awful suggestion, and as I've said enough times, policy lynching you based on what you had done would have hurt town and helped scum. How is it scummy for me to be disgusted with the suggestion?

Then you immediately shift focus to four players for not posting enough by Page 2 of the game.

Oh so it's scummy to call lurkers to post in the game? Shall we read your first post? Of course I'm going to call attention to people who aren't me. People who aren't me weren't posting. We, as you pointed out, have short deadlines this game so we need people posting. Why are you calling something that you've done scummy?

It's not scummy to call lurkers to post. It is scummy to call out other people when you are under attack in an attempt to swith focus. Javert's post was him saying that lurking is bad and pointing out the rules. Your post 47 was calling out specific players around 14 hours after the game started in what seems like an attempt to shift focus

Sure you can go ahead and think that my tone is fake and that I'm lying, but you don't know me. You're calling me scum for just being me. That whole vote and post 47 is pretty much exactly what I would have said even if I was scum, which is why this is so frustrating.

"Ya, I'm always like this, so I'm not scum"

I agree. A lynch without a claim is bad - but not lynching somebody because they don't claim is infinitely worse.

I'm not refusing to claim in hoping that town wont lynch me. I'm refusing to claim now because it isn't time for a lynch yet.

It's a lot easier to paraphrase a role pm then to make one up.

Preview Edit: Again, refusing to claim

[Jerbs]

Do you mean Javert? Or Jerbs? I would asssume Javert because at that point I had only made one post, and was not tied up in the whole Javert thing

You're showing that you know very well I meant Javert. This is just filled for your post.

I believe you called me out, saying that I wasn't paying attention earlier for typing the wrong name. I was just taking an extra precaution, in case somebody used that as a reason fro why I might be scum.

So Jerb(you) uses Prox's statements to explain his vote on ICE? The same guy he accused of not posting content?...

If you look at ICE's posts, they show that he is being careful about what he posts. However, he had recklessly voted for Javert earlier, so he could use that as for "see? I'm town" And just because I said "most of his posts are contentless" doesn't mean that I can't use his statements to further my point

[Jerbs]

Mute seems to be a master fencesitter

Also, manutd should be back by now

It seems that in every single post Conspiracy writes, mute is mentioned

Iso 0: Case on mute
Iso 1: cont. case on mute
Iso 2: "@ Mute, why dont i get a response?"
Iso 3:replies to mute
Iso 4:cont. case on mute
Iso 5: tells javert not to ignore the mute case

Tunneling much?

[Jerbs]

Lets take a look at the voting patterns

Vote Count 1

Mute (4): RobCapone, Prox, ConSpiracy, ICEninja

Conspiracy hops on the mute wagon with a case on him. Then, ICE hops on the mute wagon a few posts later for pretty much the same reasons. Also, mute is the biggest wagon at the time

Vote Count 2

Mute (3): Prox, ConSpiracy, ICEninja
ICEninja (5) (L-2): Javert, Edgerobin, HumblePoirot, Oso, Jerbs

ICE is getting some pressure , but he and Conspiracy stay on mute. Conspiracy doesnt mention ICE much, but when he does he is defending him.

Vote Count 3

Mute (2): ConSpiracy, ICEninja
ICEninja (5) (L-2): Javert, Edgerobin, Oso, Jerbs, Prox
DavidParker (2): magnus_orion, RobCapone

Stays with ICE on mute.

Vote Count 4

Mute (2): ConSpiracy, ICEninja
ICEninja (9) (L+2): Javert, Edgerobin, Oso, Jerbs, Prox, Mute, DavidParker (the Hammer), RobCapone (SuperHammer), magnus_orion (the OVERKILL)

Stays on mute with ICE. Possible attempt to look town by not bussing. Also, everyone else in the game voted ICE. Then this post

Ok, that was very unexpected...
At least we know now that the mafia can talk during the day. We should be aware of some strange plots in the game that the mafia made up in their QT.
And Javert, although you were right this time you shouldn't tunnel that much. You basicly ignored the case on Mute and DP (Just 1 sentence for both isn't enough) and your "quote" of ICE just showed us you thought ICE to be doing only scummy things. Please watch the other sides as well instead of focussing on only one thing.

The rest of the players, not going to say much really other than I hope to hear more (on most anything they care to comment on) from ConSpiracy, Jerbs, manutdforev10 and Prox. I would add Edgerobin to that except, even though he has a low post count, the thought he puts into his posts more than makes up for it.

It's true, I haven't posted much, yet. I am really busy at the moment and that will continue for a few days. I have, however, expressed my opinion more than enough in the posts I made and you should know my stance in most discussions.

Advising town on stuff and commentating on ICE's rage.

Vote Count 5

RobCapone (1): DavidParker
DavidParker (3): RobCapone, Oso, ConSpiracy
ConSpiracy (1): Javert

Hops on the biggest wagon

Vote: Conspiracy

@Edge
You seemed to miss the possibility that Oso really did block you, and you were scum.

[Jerbs]

V/LA till monday

[Jerbs]

hi im back

gotta reread

btw, a storm tommorow and the fact that i'm feeling terrible means I'll be busy catching up

[Jerbs]

wait a minute

There's a possible doc, huge OMFG roleblocker, AND a cop??

HOW THE HELL IS THIS GAME BALANCED!?!?!?!

I agree that Edgerobin is probably scum. This is based on three things: first, Oso's claim; second, the fact that Edgerobin seemed to change course after Oso claimed to have role-blocked him. (Notice how he suddenly got suspicious of myself, DavidParker, etc.); and third, the fact that I have seen Edgerobin on-line and I believe he has purposefully avoided posting.

But. If you believe, as I do at the moment, (i) that there are two scum teams, and (ii) Oso's claim, then we are still better off trying to lynch ICEninja's partner and then letting Oso role-block Edgerobin tonight. We can safely deduce that Edgerobin is not partnered with ICEninja (or else there would not have been a knife killing on Night One), but it may be the case that Oso blocked the Knife kill tonight and -- if there is a "shooting" mafia -- that they either withheld their kill in an attempt to make Edgerobin look better, or that their kill was blocked a second night in a row.

That said (and so there is no confusion), I will gladly lynch Edgerobin if there are not better alternatives. But I would like to look into those alternatives first.

Pre-Post Edit: Well, that's interesting. I cannot deny being role-blocked.

So N1 shooting was blocked, knife kill got thru. We know Edge is scum. Oso blocked Javert. This means that Javert is prob mafia, because there were no kills this morning. If Javert is knife mafia, shooting mafia either A)gave up their kill, or B) got blocked/their target was doc protected. If Javert is shooting mafia, then that means he and edge were blocked. However, that also means that knife mafia was blocked/ their target was doc protected, since there is no point for them to give up their kill.

This pretty much means we have a cop, group RB, and a doc/another RB

However, if what Javert said about scum being 1 NK-immune, then the above might not be true

[Jerbs]

Hii


sorry, i gotta reread, and I'm in a rush

some quick thoughts

-Now that it's mentioned, Rob is actually very likely scum
-I'm still kinda suspicous of Javert. ICE's rage could be because of a distancing attempt that got out of hand
-I'm a VT
-I'm not sure if this is a legal mini setup

[Jerbs]

Sorry I forgot my period, the part about oso should have been a new sentence

It's that time of the month



I think on N2, scum tried to kill oso. If prox wasn't here, yes that would explain the lack of knife kills. There is no reason that knife mafia would not kill N2, unless to frame someone, but that doesn't seem to make much sense.

I say we lynch rob. if he is indeed town, then we lynch javert.

@Rob

You could also be knife mafia.

On D2,when oso claimed, that pretty much ensured that edge would be looked at. As his posts got more and more scummy, you could easily claim cop for town cred. Also, getting innocents on dead innos would help reinforce the fact that you're cop

[Jerbs]

I agree with Oso and the others on rob

also, this line

without knowing where I learned to play you will never understand my mentality of playing.

i don't like it. It seems to be that "it's my playstyle thats scummy, not me" type of thing

The fact that prox is out of his other games could be that he and ICE were yelling at each other and they both just decided screw mafia


We should lynch rob or prox

Vote: Rob

[Jerbs]

^frustrated rage quit?

[Jerbs]

At the beginning, I had a huge gut scum read on Javert, tho that has subsided. I'm not sure of his alignment now
Rob comes off as town to me, tho his bad luck does make him look like scum
Oso is pretty much conf. town imo, just don't see town claiming supa rb like that
Magnus is town, i completely believe his claim
Mute has been quiet
Shattered/Prox could be scum
Conspiracy has started lurking

Magnus
Oso

Javert

Rob
Mute

Conspiracy
Shattered

[Jerbs]

I decided to give Rob another chance

[Jerbs]

I am?

my bad

Unvote

[Jerbs]

^^This

Vote: Shattered

For reasons outlined by everyone else.

[Jerbs]

okay

Vote: jerbs

[Jerbs]

usually I don't lurk, but with all that was going on it was just a lot easier to blend in

the lack of knife-maf kills messed me and edge up, and at the time it seemed like we had a doc, cop, and supa-rb.


I'm okay with posting the gun scum qt

[Jerbs]

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/epMRr7EL5yQ

Normally I don't like lurkihng, its just that i was told by edge to blend in and lurk more

[Jerbs]

thats the gun mafia qt

[Jerbs]

I went and killed Amrun because I thought he could have been doc. I thought that Knife mafia would send in their kill on Rob/Oso, but prox flaked, so...

And I had thought that it was a normal doc