Mini 1121: Nexusville Mafia.

[Swiftstrike]

Hello everyone, just a quick post to say hi and I'm going to try read up as quick as I can to catch up.

[Swiftstrike]

What a horrendous read this game is.

Swift: King is trying to convince the town that the Mafia gain some super powers if town dies before them rather than after them. Do you agree with this hypothesis?

Unvote

Vote: King

No, but scum surviving for more days does give them the chance to influence the town to gain more bad lynches.
--
I don't think that lynching a mason claim is the right move today as it isn't a strong claim, but what I don't like is that I'm reading the last few pages as if you are hinting that I am mason with you when I'm not .

with these statements

Mod: Doesn't WOMC want to replace out?

implying that you know something

...

Your "town not giving full reasons" as a reason Nameless is scummy is horribly hypocritical. .

When did I say that?

but I don’t get how, say, his wall on the town v Saint is scum trying to mislead.

It tries to make Saint look scummier than he is with his ignorance on why people are voting him) by presenting all the arguments against Saint in an easy to see form

despit the large numbers of town members (and its the scum's tactic of choice) that are almost deliberately (or actually deliberately in Nameless and King's case) obscuring their point.

So nowhere then?

And who freaking cares about town accuracy? It has absolutely nothing to do with scum desperately attempting to gain a mislynch or two before they die. Like, literally irrelevant to the discussion.

This is so obvious scum it hurts.

"Town's accuracy is irrelevant to whether or not town will correctly lynch or not."

You realize that when WOMC's replacement comes you'll be caught out, right?

--cut--

Although since its seems pretty obvious that neither I nor Nameless will be lynched today it seems like you are correct in your assessment that it will fail. Also, what does WOMC being replaced have to do with me being "caught out"?

A replacement will read through this thread without a blinder on. You're obv scum. Put 2 and 2 together and you get four.

Both just seem to be hinting that you know I'm going to be coming in and siding with you.

It just seems that at best you have turned this game into a big shouting match and I've had to read it and it has drawn away from getting info on other players and as such the argument between yourself and king is the only thing I can really take from this day so far and neither of you come out of it with any credit with you avoiding questions and King tunnelling on you hard. Either of you could clearly be scum or town involved in the most stupid town vs town arguments i have yet read. So now I have to go back and ISO Saint and MB separately so I can actually get a read on them without reading you and King and see if there is a viable scum lynch there.

--
Oh and as for page 1 questions.

1 GMT
2 Prefer questions
3 And playing my first still open game on site and have a wiki linking my offsite completed games.

[Swiftstrike]

Swift, I'm not sure how it's protown to narrow down for the scum who emp's mason buddy is. Unless you're scum in which case, maybe you're trying to start a trend? It's either scum genius or idiot town. Please no one else follow his lead. And I guess there is the chance emp is scum and then it doesn't matter at all.

I don't like the saint wagon, nor how much it's distracting from an mb lynch.

That is to assume that he actually has a mason buddy and that we know for certain he isn't lying scum, I just didn't like the idea that he was trying to use WOMC being replaced as a get out of jail free card and wanted to put a stop to that. I agree that no one else should be following my lead as no one else did he hint heavily that would be agreeing strongly with him.

[Swiftstrike]

Also, swiftstrike's vote on ice is leftover from weapons. Who are you voting, swift? You've done very little actually. You must have time to be fairly active since you just agreed to replace in, so where are you? What do you think of the current wagons? Was weapons scum whose buddies bailed him out early in the game?

At the moment I'm not voting for anyone, well at least I wasn't and then suddenly I was

Unvote

I have had time, unfortunately the read of this game was long drawn out and dominated by EMP and King's argument so I want to get a read again ignoring there posts, this means I'm not best placed to be calling all the decisions at the moment but....

wagon wise I like Saints less than MB and since we are voting to lynch on a time limit right now that will be my vote.

Vote MB53

And no, as WOMC wasn't scum and I'm not scum I guess we just have to see if I can handle weapons spot adequately.

[Swiftstrike]

I don't believe we should be mass claiming at this point after all day ones are more likely wrong lynches and we lost one player at night which should basically be expected so I don't see the dire need to mass claim

Saint would you explain why you see the need for us to mass claim?

[Swiftstrike]

post 610

Swift replacing in and immediately saying that he doesn't like that

Empking was insinuating that he his is scum buddy

was anti-town, and it bothers me.
--Cut--

No I said I didn't like him insinuating I was his mason partner (as he had claimed Mason), so scum slip much there.

VOTE ZDENEK
FOS EMPKING

[Swiftstrike]

Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,

which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?

--
DarthYoshi

post 610

Swift replacing in and immediately saying that he doesn't like that

Empking was insinuating that he his is scum buddy

was anti-town, and it bothers me.
--Cut--

No I said I didn't like him insinuating I was his mason partner (as he had claimed Mason), so scum slip much there.

taken from Zdenek post 610

Zdenek post here talks about Empking being a scum buddy rather than a mason, now Zdenek offered his explanation as to why he said what he said but it is rather a strange switch of words to make here so I'm keeping my vote on for the moment. As to me it reads as him slipping that EMP is scum and Zdenek is his scum buddy (hence the addition of a FOS on EMP) and possibly in the post I pulled above there is looking like another something in reference to EMP.

[Swiftstrike]

ICENINJA

You haven't responded to this, I don't know if you missed it or are ignoring it but could you please reply to this. The quote of yours is taken from post 636

Ice I just read your above statement four times and I still don't understand it, please explain

I never said I wasn't suspicious of him, I just said that lynching him was a bad idea. I feel like I've made my point fairly clear in saying that I want to wait until day 3 or so, at which point it is much safer for a mason buddy to clear him, or for a cop to claim. Should Emp be cleared at day 3, that forces scum to decide who to night kill during nights 3 and 4, and forcing them to night kill Emp,

which is good because then they aren't night killing a townie player.

because reading the underlined you seem to suggest that scum killing EMP night 3 is them killing a non town player, in which case EMP is not town now, could you please explain this and why this then means he shouldn't be voted for now?

[Swiftstrike]

Ice reply to my post and a subsequent question by someone else after that makes me feel a lot happier about his statement I pulled him up on as there is a logic behind it I can follow and somewhat agree with.
--
Darth Yoshi looking at your style of asking questions of other players such as this.

@Nameless: How exactly has Implosion redeemed himself? I see little scumhunting happening from him, and perfunctory defenses at best.

or these

Neko:

Why not mb's? Other than Saint, he listed implosion and swiftstrike. Why shouldn't we be looking into them?

We should. I’m rather dismayed at how much active lurking the town is tolerating from these two (including from Swift’s predecessor). And, is there a reason why you didn't vote Saint? When you posted, there wasn't a risk of putting him at L-1.

@Setael: While I agree that lynching Saint could provide us with a lot of information—a Saint town flip would force me to rethink a number of my reads—you’re putting a vote on player without actually saying why you think that player is scum. The closest you get is saying that your reasons for not wagoning Saint weren’t that strong. If you think Saint is scum, why? If you don’t think he is scum, then why are you voting for him?

@ICE: Has your read on Emp changed? IIRC, you were pretty against lynching him on D1, but #620 is the second time already on D2 that you’ve expressed (unprompted) suspicion of Emp.

@Zdenek and Swiftstrike: Could each of you explain the scumslips you saw in one another? Saying they are scumslips doesn't make them scumslips--I'm wondering if I'm missing something, and the extreme brevity isn't helping.

Reminds me of how I play scum, asking question of players about another player to create a tension between those players rather than asking something a little bit more direct of a player have you got any game I could read where you played as town and asked questions in this same way, because at the moment I am a little wary of you because of how much it reminds me of my own scum style.

[Swiftstrike]

-cut-
no I don't "know" Saint is town. I think he's scum. I've been wrong before, and it will happen again, but I think he's scum. Also, believe me when I say I suck as scum. I really am scum hunting here.

"he's scum, but I will be wrong again"
see this disclaimer?
It's like saying, hey, guys, lynch this guy... even if I'm usually wrong about who I lynch, or my reads... when in fact, he probably DOES know I'm town. I don't see why I had a town read on this guy.

Although Zdenek isn't getting off his ass to do something productive, we will get to see IceNinja flip scum. It is better to lynch the more active scum than the inactive.

unvote: Zdenek

VOTE: IceNinja

Why is it better to lynch more active scum than an inactive one, surely a more active scum is more likely to slip that an inactive one? At the moment Saint your jumping wagons to start a counter wagon on anyone has me wondering if I have read this Zdenek thing right and whether you should be today's lynch.

[Swiftstrike]

What I think of Ice I already pretty much summed it up a few posts ago

Ice reply to my post and a subsequent question by someone else after that makes me feel a lot happier about his statement I pulled him up on as there is a logic behind it I can follow and somewhat agree with.

To expand on this a little. After reading his post that seemed to indicate that he knew Emp was scum, I was thinking a possible scum slip so I asked about this as it looked something his reply to my post and the follow up question from you in 654 make me feel less uneasy about what he said there.

[Swiftstrike]

I have also just done a iso on ice, I concur he mentioned cop a fair bit on the 2nd page after not mentioning it at all the first page but given the interaction here.

You both admit that speculation is useless and say that you're going to continue doing it... sigh.

It isn't even speculation at this point. I think you're scum. I think Saint is scum. I ALSO think that you two are scum together. It simply makes sense and I have presented reasoning why. These are the reads that my scum hunting has gathered me.

I agree, I am fence sitting. I'm getting very mixed ideas about Saint's slot. I'm really unsure about it at this point.

You say that you have a neutral slightly leaning town read on the Saint slot. If you can't get a wagon on me, then your second alternative is to turn around and lynch a neutral slightly leaning town player for an information lynch. What does this say about the quality of your scum hunting? Scum doesn't need to get reads on people, they already know who is town and who is scum. Town needs to really dig deep and get reads for themselves as to who is scum.

Okay, first off, you saying that you think there's a cop in the game based on your own observation is both 1) completely unverifiable (since verification would mean outing someone that you apparently think is a cop)

Why would I want to verify this? I don't want a cop to claim until he/she has sufficient information to make it worth being night killed.

and 2) completely scummy (since town members will be focusing on finding mafia rather than finding town power roles or trying to figure out a closed setup).

If you've never been looking for scum and found PR tells then you simply aren't reading carefully enough. It happens, during the course of examining people's play, that you find what people's motives are. Scum and town have very different motives. PRs and VTs have slightly different motives. Just because I'm not looking for them doesn't mean I don't find them.

Second off, you've basically admitted that you're speculating about the setup and have based some of your reasoning on speculation.

If by "basing some of my reasoning on speculation" you mean trying to figure out if Emp's mason claim checks out or not, then yes. I am doing that because town needs to know if he's a mason or if he's scum. I didn't realize this is scummy.
If by "basing some of my reasoning on speculation" you mean having you and Saint pegged as likely scum buddies, I'm assuming there is more than 1 scum in this game so there's no speculation involved there.
I haven't based ANY reasoning of any kind on there being a cop or not in this game.

Unfortunately for you, the wagon on me taking off isn't terribly likely. You're better off jumping on the Saint wagon now and trying to put together a good reason to do it in order to gain some shred of town cred for tomorrow.

it seems like implosion is trying to get confirmation that ice is the cop and is certainly worth a separate iso.

FOS Implosion

[Swiftstrike]

@Swift: Why the FoS of Implosion? Your catch is pretty good, why not vote for him?

Because I wanted to read his iso before coming to a decision on a vote given I had no read on him before that point. I have now has a bit of a read on him and feel more comfortable in voting for him

Having reread Ice push on him at the how if saint flipped he would barrel down on implosion hard does seem to indicate he got a scum result off him, having read Implosion I see no real town posting from him to point to in a town favour.

VOTE Implosion

--
I agree with what a few of the others have been saying now is the time for Empking mason buddy to reveal if there is one if EMP is a mason he is a lock for the kill tonight and that leaves us in very bad position if we then get to mylo or lylo with two people claiming to be a mason partner and no way of knowing which person is the real mason.

[Swiftstrike]

unvote

Just to stop the day ending prematurely.

Zdenek you said you don't think that it's likely for there to be another power role in the game if emp is telling the truth do you think it's time for a full claim or should that be left to see the result of the lynch?

[Swiftstrike]

I'll answer this quote rather than darth yoshi because of the quote fail and it's the same question effectively

Swiftstrike, you PLACED that L-1 vote. If you're worried, why did you make it?

I wasn't worried at the time is the most simple answer to that something that Zdenek said has made me slightly concerned, which is why when I unvoted I also placed a question for him. Any more than that I can't really say at this time.

I would also very much like to see a claim from emp partner and if people want to do this popcorn style I have already said I'm not so I could start that off.

[Swiftstrike]

Swiftstrike: What was it that Zdenek said that caused you concern about lynching implosion? Also, what are your reads on Setael, neko and myself? You haven't really mentioned us yet.

Well it was the case that if Emp had a mason buddy I figured that was most likely either Zdenek or Seteal, which is why I didn't push to heavily on what I saw as the possible slip of Zdenek, but if Emp flips scum he is definitely worth looking at. Seteal at this point I felt had completely ruled himself out of being a mason buddy and then Zdenek did this, for me made it likely Emp was lying this then concerned me that we where on the wrong path.

As for my reads on Setael, Neko and yourself. Setael I have a town read which is why I suspected he was mostly likely a mason buddy with Emp but of course couldn't lead a reference to that, Neko and yourself are neutral/town reads mainly because I haven't spotted anything that overly concerns me but I probably should take some time to reread both of you just to see if anything sticks out.

[Swiftstrike]

I don't like looking for town reads so have not looked at that hard, my suspicion on Zdenek was based on him possibly slip on emp which is obviously now wrong. I'm leaning most towards implosion as scum that was saved by the switch of vote to emp last phase, so I want to have a look at that.

[Swiftstrike]

First of all I'ld like to apologize for being away the last few day's got informed I would be having an auditor in at work and my paperwork was nowhere near up to scratch so spent the last few days resorting, refiling and generally catching up on that night and day. Having just reread over the end of the last day phase to see if there was something in the lynch and the movement from Implosion to Emp and I can't really see anything.

With the likelyhood that we are now at lylo wouldn't now be the best time to see a role claim from everyone to see if there is any information out there that would better inform the town?

[Swiftstrike]

...
With the likelyhood that we are now at lylo wouldn't now be the best time to see a role claim from everyone to see if there is any information out there that would better inform the town?

My role is still claimed, just like it has been from day 1...

Yes, you and Implosion have claims out there already I'm wondering if it time to mass claim.

[Swiftstrike]

one shot vigilante

I would like to see Darth Yoshi next

[Swiftstrike]

it's a night one.

[Swiftstrike]

When would you have suggested was a good time to use it, night 1 is never good. night 2 I was worried about hitting one of the masons and last night would risk putting us at a possible 3 and 3 so there has been no good time to use it. Even if there is only 2 mafia it would still have put us at an even number so we likely would have no lynched to keep odd numbers and we would be no further forward.

Before someone asks me about anything else like if I have left any breadcrumbs, I did breadcrumb it slightly in the below post but I wasn't looking to draw attention to it to much

Also, swiftstrike's vote on ice is leftover from weapons. Who are you voting, swift? You've done very little actually. You must have time to be fairly active since you just agreed to replace in, so where are you? What do you think of the current wagons? Was weapons scum whose buddies bailed him out early in the game?

At the moment I'm not voting for anyone, well at least I wasn't and then suddenly I was

Unvote

I have had time, unfortunately the read of this game was long drawn out and dominated by EMP and King's argument so I want to get a read again ignoring there posts, this means I'm not best placed to be calling all the decisions at the moment but....

wagon wise I like Saints less than MB and since we are voting to lynch on a time limit right now that will be my vote.

Vote MB53

And no, as WOMC wasn't scum and I'm not scum I guess we just have to see if I can handle weapons spot adequately.

referring to WOMC and then stating if I could handle weapons rather than stating I could handle WOMC spot it was handy his username fitted with me doing this.

Also you can see I unvoted implosion and questioned Zdenek about whether a full claim may be the best idea after he posted this
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2871285
As he referred to there not likely being any more power roles if EMP was telling the truth, which is why I used that question as a follow up.

[Swiftstrike]

I would think that you'd use it before lylo. You say last night you were worried you'd put us at 3v3 but I don't understand why you thought it more likely you'd hit town. Didn't you have any scum reads strong enough to try to take one of them out last night?

I glad you said that it wasn't a bad time to use it, because while I can't quote pm's from the mod nothing say that I can't quote the ones to them.

Well it's shit or bust time, although my thoughts go to the fact that I'm going to numerically disadvantage the town by shooting, it cant be any worse than try to lynch scum with only 4 town alive at this stage. At the very least if I'm wrong this should case the scum to be a little bit cautions in the next day phase wondering if they can risk taking a stand against a town vote 3 on 3 so I will

Shoot implosion

reasoning he is the most likely lynch next day phase and this at least widens the field for that and hopefully I hit scum that scum where trying not to bus.

However I was roleblocked last night.

[Swiftstrike]

Why did you wait to tell us this until I called you out for not having used it yet?

And if you did try to use it last night, why did you say this:

When would you have suggested was a good time to use it, night 1 is never good. night 2 I was worried about hitting one of the masons and last night would risk putting us at a possible 3 and 3 so there has been no good time to use it. Even if there is only 2 mafia it would still have put us at an even number so we likely would have no lynched to keep odd numbers and we would be no further forward.

You said "there has been no good time to use it" which definitely indicated that you hadn't used it. If you really did submit a kill last night, I see no reason why you wouldn't say so when you wrote this.

Also, why would you write out your reasoning to the mod like that? (Anyone else here ever done that? I would just submit a kill.) Also, is that normal to bold a kill when submitted via PM? I've never done that either.

Yeah... I don't believe you.

There has been no good time so I chose to use it as the best of the bad times to use it, I had no reason to tell you that except the fact it is the truth. I could have lied to say that I didn't use it but I merely chose to omit the fact in the first post and wasn't intending on lying given what happened with our doctor over lying.

As for the reasoning I play with the Mod from this game on the site where I first started playing mafia scum (you can see it in my WIKI) and yes I wanted to put down a little bit reasoning behind my thought process because of this but I do tend to add a little reason to my pm sometimes especially in clutch situations another example of this that I can give is from my first game on this site

Night action

1 I would like to talk to Lowell, Face my accuser I say!

2. I will not take this action tonight.

which I sent to the mod on the first day of that game based on the fact Lowell had accused me and given the fact it was a b*stard mod I thought my role actually allowed me to night talk, as the action was "talk" but this didn't actually turn out to be the action.

Or post 33 + 34 of this where I requested a quick topic for a serial killer role I had
http://s10.zetaboards.com/Screen_One_Fo ... /?x=90#new

[Swiftstrike]

Posting this from the San Francisco airport, where I am currently stranded. (This may be more a LA weekend for me than a true V/LA, especially if my current luck holds )

Wow...I actually have to agree with Setael on this one—I’m not buying Swift’s (fake)claim either. Usually, vigs can be confirmed by shooting, this hasn’t happened, and Swift can come up with the convenient excuse of being roleblocked now that

he knows, with a doc and cop having flipped, that there is almost certainly a scum roleblocker in the setup.

And yeah, Setael’s right that this PM looks pretty contrived. It looks like it was originally written to convince us, not the mod. This looks like an attempt to try to become cleared as town by fakeclaiming a PR that can’t be verified. This + misrepresenting your reasons for not NKing last night + what other players have said about you flying under the radar = Swift, my read on you is rapidly changing.

And, after a cursory re-read, a Swift/Imp scumpairing would explain a lot of Swift’s behavior…his original FoS of Implosion on D3 for rolefishing (rather than a vote), his attempt to subtly discredit me on the basis of my posting style while I was trying to get Implosion lynched, etc.

I'm going to take the weekend to think about it (I also want to re-read Swift/Setael interactions to see if this might be a bus/distancing attempt), but I could be amenable to a Swift lynch. And when Swift flips scum, that should be the death knell for Implosion.

Darth could you just explain the bolded point in your post, surely if I was scum I would know there was a scum roleblocker before the flip of a cop and a doctor so could you please explain what you meant by this because it seems like you know I didn't know this information until after the cop and doctor flipped and I then got blocked.

[Swiftstrike]

EBWOP: just checked that people could check the serial killer posts and you can't without joining the forum there so here they are

What to do? What to do?

Kill Lawz
Pros
He is almost certainly mafia
I don't think there can be a Vigilante, as it would be absolute slaughter in this game and probably see it end in 4 days which doesn't give the town enough miss lynches to good lynches.
It might help me work out why he was on my profile (unlikely but this will bug me too much otherwise)

Cons
no obvious lynch target once he drops
Chaos and confusion could see a real bad lynch for me (me)
If he has got any info then he will have had time to reveal it to the others before keeling over

Kill lowest poster (or Henley in this case)
Pro
Confusion could lead to a lot more posting
Not likely to be watched or doctored.
May not be picked out as an another kill.

Cons
If I'm tracked I am having to resort to a claim.
Lower possibility of hitting mafia that trying to find one.

Pick off likely mafia accomplice
Pro
Assures Lawz lynch if successful, 2 for 1

Con
Much more likely to be watched or doctored
Bigger risk play.

Well it's decision time

I think I'm going to try find another mafia so with that please

Poison TripleA

Reasons
Was quick to jump on Lawz error but quickly looked to move it onto Mike
Then looked to move it onto Joe
Then happy to move it on to Nexus - Looking to Keep Lawz as he is adding to the game (5 posts that's adding, right)
Think Nexus late tack on post is to cover him over with the others
And it might help me work out the Lawz on profile conundrum. I would not expect Lawz to be on mafia profiles with Lawz a mafia but I don't want to be second guessing myself based on a weird set of profile looking by Lawz.
Also I can't see a doctor covering him or someone watching him where as Mike could still be covered by either despite him calling the Nexus situation wrong.

[Swiftstrike]

Implosion, while it does only take one mislynch for us to lose, I also have the feeling that it will really only take one correct lynch to break the game open and win, and I would guess the scum feel the same way. With an entire game's worth of interactions to analyse, the scum have just as much riding on this as town and I don't think we can be sure how they're going to play this.

That said, we may be about to make that break in the game. I want to wait to comment on the point Swift bolded until Yoshi responds, and I would like others to as well.

On the rest of the developments, I was a little skeptical of the way the claim was written as well, but if there's precedence he's made this kind of a night action request before, then I suppose at least that part is believable. The part that still makes the least sense to me is what Set has pointed out, in that swift's response to "why haven't you used it yet" clearly does not leave room for a roleblock possibility--instead he gives reasons for not using it. Then later, he says he actually did, despite having given a reason not to on that occasion. I could see scum motivation for doing this--trying to appear to have done what would be best for the town--but I don't know why he should feel the need to do this if he were town. He reveals he's relieved to know Set thought last night would have been a good time to use the shot, but swift shouldn't have felt so worried about it in the first place. "Why haven't you used it yet" clearly indicates 'you should have used it by now, so why haven't you?' I don't think town would feel the need to conceal their actions like this, especially knowing we have already lynched someone for lying in this game. And, 'omitting the fact isn't lying'... maybe not directly, but I'm sure my grandmother would feel very strongly that it does.

Swift, why didn't you think it was important to mention your night action right away?

If I had to make my guess now, I would say there is a likely swift-yoshi-implosion team

I'm not sure that I thought it best to omit, I just didn't see a reason to say it. I stick by my reasoning that it wasn't a great time to use it last night, but last night seemed the best of the times that I could use it and there wouldn't likely be a better time, as we would be going into a series of lylo's if we got today's lynch right and I hadn't used it. I suppose I was a little bit unsure that people would have seen it as the right thing to do last night which is why I was glad Setael said that I should use it last night rather than waiting and at that point given as I said I didn't want to lie and also felt that at least someone would agree the reasoning I then volunteered the info, looking back I should have probably just come straight out with it.

I would like to give Darthyoshi a chance to answer the point I raised about the bolded part I highlighted in my last post before we see any voting on Darth as he needs to be given a chance to answer but I am very wary of him right now given that post and the fact I raised before that he is playing similiar to how I play scum.

[Swiftstrike]

Imp, all I'm saying is we can't take anything for granted. If you can't see why, fine, but stop trying to convince people that the scum are going to make this easy for us.

Here's what really, really super irks me:

Swift can come up with the convenient excuse of being roleblocked now that he knows, with a doc and cop having flipped, that there is almost certainly a scum roleblocker in the setup.

This phrasing looks scummy. You seem to imply both that Swift is town and that Swift is mafia in the same sentence; scum by saying that he can come up with a convenient excuse, and town by saying that he knows "almost certainly" that there's a scum roleblocker. It would make sense if you inserted "from town's view" before there being a scum roleblocker, but you didn't.

I specifically asked for nobody to comment on what Yoshi said for this very reason. You fed him an answer, which he took up. Why say what you think he should have said before he had a chance to explain himself? It's still not the answer I was expecting if he were town, though.

Yoshi's response is pretty well what I expected if he were scum. I think the mistake swift pointed out could have come from town not thinking things entirely through. It seems like Yoshi is trying to salvage his argument here, and while I suppose it's feasible he's telling the truth, it just seems so contrived to me. This is definitely just a gut feeling, but I'm not inclined to believe him. I also feel that the way he mentioned the roleblocker suggested that he's got inside info. Actually, quick poll: who would have guessed there could be a mafia roleblocker before Swift and Yoshi mentioned it? I didn't, but I wasn't really thinking about it, so I want to know if anyone else found Yoshi's comment strange.

I think Swift and Yoshi have both been caught in a lie, and I think implosion is trying to cover for Swift and coach Yoshi. I'm feeling comfortable voting for any one of these.

Neko I'm trying to understand how you see me and Darth teaming here if this was the case what is the scum play for end game here? Because otherwise this just seems to be a way to keep your options open for a lynch if one person votes the wrong way. Also how is Implosion giving a answer that would help Darth answer that question trying to cover for me?

--

Setael you shouldn't have voted. Your evidence of Yoshi-scum is entirely from day 1 and you didn't even give him a chance to counter it before you voted, and you just flat out ignored his counter with your most recent post.

I'm not worried about votes piling on you because I think your scum buddies will fight against your lynch. If you really thought I was scum, you'd vote me knowing it'd be extremely tough to pull off my lynch with my buddies highly motivated to mislynch today.

The only reason to NOT vote is if you actually think I'm town, in which case the worry that all the scum would jump on and mislynch me

.

Activity around here is minimal, and talking things out is no longer so helpful since almost half the living players are scum who can lead the town pretty easily. The best plan seems for me to choose the person I'm most confident is scum and stick with that. That happens to be you.

Underlined reasoning only works if Yoshi is a

townie

player, so your mindset is that he is a townie then?

I know which one of you two I'm gonna vote for if Yoshi doesn't get quicklynched.

Also voting without giving anybody a chance to answer to your accusations is not the correct move in LyLo.

I thought it was obvious I thought that his vote was scummy. I underlined it in this quote.

If I had to choose between the two of them, I think

Zdenek

is the more likely town here, but I'm gonna wait a bit more (because its LyLo) before voting one of them.

Reading the quote that your talking about it seems your giving an opinion on either Darth or Setael and yet in your reply you put Zdenek as more likely town, so more likely than which out of Setael and Darth and why introduce Zdenek at this point where your discussion is not about him?

Since it has been polled: At the end of the last day I actually thought that there was a one-shot daykill vig and a roleblocker in the set-up, since doc+cop is a crazy powerful combo and doc+cop+roleblocker with this amount of players is a bit unbalanced towards scum. I actually thought that Swift was either the day-kill vig or the roleblocker since he seemed to be trying to lay low, as it were, but his claim of one-shot night-kill vig totally messed that one-or-the-other thing I was thinking of.

...Should have mentioned that earlier.

@Setael: Here are some accusations for 'ya: Why did you vote for Yoshi when you claimed that you thought it was impossible that neko was town? Why did you vote without letting Yoshi give a counter? Why did you ignore the first accusation listed here when I made it last post? What the heck were you talking about with this: "You're right, I didn't think that through obviously. There's no reason for darth not to vote me if he's town and thinks I'm scum." That was not even close to what I meant in the post you responded to.

Going a little bit off game here possibly but why would it make a big difference to the set up if it was day vig or night vig?

[Swiftstrike]

Neko how much more end could we be at than lylo? Which we seem to agree that we are at. And if scum just need to not lynch scum this day surely bussing a scum buddy hard at the start makes no sense in fact bussing them makes no sense surely it's more likely just to not mention the buddy at all and see if you can cause a mislynch of a townie or to split the vote and get a no lynch?

[Swiftstrike]

BOOO!!!

Wow I sucked there, I would have picked Darth as a vote and possibly Neko for his weird logic way of keep trying to link me and Darth, but really the only thing I picked up on Zdenek was the completely unrelated to scum thing with Emp. I guess a well done to Scum is in order.

[Swiftstrike]

I would like to add my thanks to the mod nothing heavy handed in any way and a reasonable set up. So thanks.