Mini 1161 - Neruzian Era Mafia (Over!)

[Setael]

Give me a few weeks on that one. :scowl:

I'll need a couple of days to read. Anyone want to just tell me who the scumz are?

[Setael]

hiplop and Vi are the scums. That is all.

vote: hiplop

Oh, you want a wall of death? Oh, ok. You owe me big time, I was supposed to be in bed by 2 a.m. This game actually makes for a pretty good read. I couldn't put it down (after about pg. 10. Up to that point it was a bit of a snoozer).

- hiplop sheeps empking’s argument that looker's post 43 was filler. Hiplop then RVs. Odd that he’d expect others to post meaningful content and then RV. (This is pointed out by Sloth in post 51)

- Vi accuses Sloth of dodging and asks why hiplop over other wagons. (soft defense)

- hiplop’s post 80 is scummy. doesn’t address the sheeping accusations and pretends it was his original argument.

- Vi calls Sloth out and says, “Is there any reason you're still only talking about one person at a time?
You're asking a lot of theoretical questions but saying little to nothing about whether people are actually scummy.” In spite of this, votes a lurker instead.

- hiplop post 108 is massively scummy. Says “is quilford at l-1? i don't want to hammer but im sort of suspecting him now”. Doesn’t say WHY he’s suspecting him and the “sort of” is weak and noncommittal. Basically, he’s setting himself up to be able to hammer Quil without looking scummy for it when Quil flips town. (everyone forgives this later because hiplop supposedly mixed up games. nope. not buying it.)

- Post 114 Vi votes hiplop for megascum post 108. If I were hiplop’s scum buddy, I’d have voted there, too.

- 128 Vi “Elephant in room: The reasons for voting Qwilfish don't exist, at least not from anyone voting him sans charter” and then later: “If hiplop can tell me how and when he started finding Quilford suspicious enough to jump on a wagon he thought was high enough to be around L-1, I will buy a hat so I can eat it.”
Distancing. Good point against hiplop (which does NOT go away whether he confused the games or not), but combined with Vi's interactions with hiplop all game, this is just distancing.

- vi p 130 :questioning eyebrow: Setting herself up to potentially join Quil wagon

- TS votes hiplop here. Weird post because he says a lot about a lot of people, but votes hiplop without really saying why. Just asks him to explain his town reads on Faraday and TS. Looks like distancing.

- Neuky post 159 re: hiplop is win. Definitely going to pay attention to how this wagon was derailed because hiplop should’ve been lynched D1.

- post 175 hiplop super scummy Quil vote. Says it’s just to add pressure, but seeing as it’s the other competing wagon it’s just bad. This may even be L-1 and hiplop’s only reason is to add pressure?

- DarthYoshi is town. Post 180, “Faraday—why is Quil scum? He’s screaming “easy lynch” to me atm.” and then votes hiplopobvscum. :goodposting:

- Faraday’s 183 is :notgoodposting: - totally dismisses everything hiplop’s doing because he’s new. Maybe he’s new, but newbtown doesn’t put someone at L-1 without providing reason and say it’s to add pressure. Newbscum would certainly do that, though.

- 184 hiplop says he mixed up 2 games. Erm. Doesn’t unvote in spite of still not providing reasoning for his L-1.

- 231 sloth is town

- 241 Faraday calls out TS

- Whoa 242 pretty much clears Sloth as town. Almost impossible that TS would post this if he and Sloth are scum buddies. Here's the post I'm talking about:

Twistedspoon very well could be scum here.

what, for giving my opinion that I think Quilford is town?

It's hardly just me anyways. My opinion is shared by others

Quilford is town.

UNVOTE: Quilford
VOTE: Hiplop

- 252 ok now i’m worried about Vi. The Quil wagon loses steam and is obviously going nowhere and then she white knights Quil and throws suspicion on everyone on the wagon. “Ignoring Faraday, it's probscum or better all the way down. I don't see myself voting anyone who ISN'T on this list Today.” This list was Scott Brosius, Faraday, Sloth, charter, Empking, hiplop. I could definitely see ViScum posting this, knowing Quil is town and only one or maybe none of her buddies are on the wagon. Yeah, by the end of 252 I’m pretty sure Vi and hiplop are scum buddies. She posts a few good points against hiplop but then says hiplop would be a good vote because of lurking (why would you vote for lurking when you have good reason to think they're scum?), and most her real attack is against charter. There was definitely one scum on the Quil wagon. SPOILER: It was hiplop.

-This is hiplop’s list. She puts TS and Vi right where I’d expect her to put scum buddies.

Town
Faraday
Charter
Twisted Spoon
Neuky

Null (AH lots of nulls this game :/)
Scottie
Darth Yoshi - only null due to juls, i have found darth to be fairly pro-town, but i got a scumvibe from juls
pappums
vi
and *probably* if i missed anyone, they're in this category

scum

Quilford
Empking

- Vi then says to hiplop ‘but your quil vote was just for pressure’ and hiplop says ‘no it wasn’t, I think he’s scum’ and i can just see Vi hitting her head against her keyboard. Sometimes you really wish you had day talk, eh Vi? hiplop just

wouldn't

take the hint on that one.

- Then TS tries to clear hiplop and says, “Sure, the L-1 reason for Quilford was horrendous by Hiplop, but I know his scum meta and this doesn't seem to follow suit :/”

- TS points out that Sloth wasn’t on hiplop’s list and she then says she gets a bad feeling from him and has a scum/null read on him. This really looked like scum manufacturing a scummish read on a townie.

- Post 305. Seriously how was hiplop not lynched D1?

In your eyes, hip, what is the reason you're voting Quilford?

Hes scummy, everything he types seems forced

hiplop where'd your neuky town read come from?

Neuky has seemed towny the entire time, hes the one im least confident in though, to be honest.

- Oh hmm. Faraday clears hiplop as town in 308 for claiming to not have read. Well, Faraday can't always be right. <3

- post 333 newbie game TS evidently tunneled on hiplop who was scum and hiplop’s play was very similar there. If hiplop were town in this game, TS likely would’ve gone after him for the same reasons he went after him in the newb game, and he could’ve been convincing about it. The reason he didn’t is because in this game they’re scum buddies.

scum

Quilford
Empking

also can you guys explain the suspicions on Empking?

Why put empking in your scumlist when you don't even know why people suspect him?

VOTE: Hiplop

RIGHT?!
Sloth = town
hiplop = scum

- TS post 338 says he’ll gladly join the hiplop wagon after Sloth’s “catch”. Then he doesn’t, not until later when Darth calls him out for this. When he does vote he says Sloth’s catch put “the final nail in the coffin” but I don’t recall him stating other suspicion of hiplop previously, so what are all these other nails? In fact, you may remember that he just tried to clear hiplop as town using meta.

And sure, Neuky. I'd be surprised if hiplop wasn't pulling his scum reads from throwing darts at a dart board to a certain extent, there's a lot of contradictions in his stances, there's some inconsistencies in there, there's basically a lot of stuff that on the surface seems scummy, I think if he WAS scum he'd be more concerned about this, just a little bit. Inconsistency isn't a scumtell anyway, but a new player as scum it'd be something they'd try to avoid if possible. I think he's being relatively careless and sort of just posting on a whim?

He's definitely making stuff up and inventing reasons to have reads. He's concerned about it, alright. He just doesn't realize how contrived his reads sound.

- Vi 384 lots of distancing from hiplop, keeping the option open to bus if needed, but vote remains on empking

I highly doubt scum will kill hiplop

obv. since you know he's scum.

I can respect your town read on hiplop, and you can expect my scum read on him, especially after the slip that slothy found

Scum slips stand out so much more to scum buddies, which is clearly what is happening here.

Scum hiplop played similarly to this in our last game.

This is big here. First TS tries to use meta from that game to clear hiplop as town. (“Sure, the L-1 reason for Quilford was horrendous by Hiplop, but I know his scum meta and this doesn't seem to follow suit :/”) NOW he's using meta from that game as a reason to bus. Basically, hiplop and TS are obviously scum together in this game.

- I got scum vibes from Zdenek’s hop onto the empking wagon in post 415, but then TS’ next post magically made it go away.

- Right after empking is hammered and before flip, TS says “hmm as inevitable as this lynch may have appeared to be I was still willing to go scotty or hiplop.” Why would he say this, if not to distance?

- Post 443 - Sloth is town. Faraday votes TS for his twilight posts at the beginning of day 2 but oddly, Sloth does not even though he called him out for them D1. Not sure why.

- After Faraday hints at getting a guilty cop result on hiplop, TS posts these:

you got a guilty on hiplop did you?

then I am pleased my suspicions were correct

VOTE: hiplop

*expects hiplop to claim miller or yelp about a framer*

Painfully obvious that TS knows hiplop is scum. Doesn’t even consider that Faraday might be asking hypothetically or that Faraday might be scum, or that hiplop really could be a miller. Auto assumes hiplop showed up guilty. TS + hiplop = scum. Obv.

TS's jumping on Faraday's "guilty" on Hiplop gives TS loads of scumpoints.

Agreed. It also makes hiplop scum, yo.

- Vi sees TS going down hard and starts defending hiplop. “hiplop's reaction is decidedly NOT what I would expect from scum in that situation.” Mmhmmm....

VOTE: twisted spoon

Scummy vote on me, i dont really understand the twilight thing but it seems to be a unanimous thing that he claimed scum

l-1 now

obvbus. In this scenario, town does not put someone at L-1 when they supposedly don't even understand wth is going on.

does anyone understand how I claimed scum in twilight or are we taking the hiplop philosophy of

i dont really understand the twilight thing but it seems to be a unanimous thing that he claimed scum

anyways, I'm still thinking our chum hiplop is potential scum...
but he doesn't seem viable after that gambit of faraday's
why couldn't you have done it on me faraday? :p

Noble attempt at trying to clear his buddy. Please don’t tell me this is why hiplop is still alive. Those of you who basically cleared hiplop after his reaction to Faraday's gambit, read this post by TS. Doesn't the fact that TS was supporting that assumption make it lose a little street cred for you? It should.

If hiplop claims Miller or yelps about a Framer, then Teaspoon is already in position to disbelieve it. If hiplop doesn't do any of the above, then clearly hiplop is the lynch du jour because lolguilty. No matter how hiplop responded, Teaspoon was going to park a vote on him.

That’s because TS knew hiplop was scum, clearly. How is Vi not seeing this? Oh wait, right. Scum buddies. Ok, that makes sense.

- 548 + 549 - TS and Zdenek not scum together, which means Zdenek is town. That was easy.

- Agree with Faraday that DY found charter’s tracker crumb really fast. (DY is scum and lucked out because he didn't send in the kill? With this many town PRs, it's unlikely there's another goon, yes? So DYscum probably would've RB'd or something. More likely, DY is town and didn’t do anything N1.)

- Vi calling out Faraday for not being NK’d is ironic, since others feel the same about her. I think Vi didn’t NK Faraday in order to create this WIFOM. It’s weird that she’s even trying to sprinkle suspicion on Faraday since there’s no way he and TS are scum together when TS was brought down by Faraday’s fake cop claim gambit. If they were both scum, obviously TS would’ve known Faraday wasn’t a cop. Hi.

I expected two scum on the Quilford wagon D1 (unless Quilford himself was scum); since Twistedspoon wasn't on the wagon and flipped scum I'm still quite inclined to lynch from there.

This again. With everything Vi could be basing reads on, she comes back to this. Makes me pretty sure there was only one scum on the Quil wagon. *cough* hiplop *cough*

- Ah. Zdenek had a backup vig shot and killed Scott. I see no reason to not believe this.

I feel like I should be saying something but I don't know what to say.

^ is a post i have a hard time voting someone for.

Not saying Vi's not good enough to manipulate me anyway, but like. maybe i need to toughen up but that seems sincere.

You need to toughen up.

scum

hiplop
Vi

town

Faraday
Sloth
Zdenek
DarthYoshi

Holy sweet mother of jesus that is a lot of words.

[Setael]

I'm not nearly as sure that Vi and hiplop are buddies as I am that hiplop is scum. There's no way TS reacts like that to the cop claim unless hiplop is his buddy. Hiplop needs to die today.

[Setael]

Holy sweet mother of jesus that is a lot of words.

I don't mess around.

[Setael]

I'm not nearly as sure that Vi and hiplop are buddies as I am that hiplop is scum. There's no way TS reacts like that to the cop claim unless hiplop is his buddy. Hiplop needs to die today.

Hmm. How would you expect him to react if Hiplop was town?

He knew that either you were lying/gambiting or your sanity was questionable or hiplop was a miller. I think he just wouldn't have said anything, for fear of looking bad once you admitted it was a gambit. I guess there's a chance he thought hiplop was a miller and was trying to preemptively cast suspicion on his claim. I don't think so, though mostly because of the plethora of other reasons I think hiplop is scum. I think his confidence in saying what he did came from his knowledge that hiplop is scum and therefore his belief that you had a guilty on him.

Is that the only thing you found convincing in everything I posted?

[Setael]

Hi Darth.

Sloth is town because of TS interaction. Do you see scum, when accused of being scummy, choosing a buddy to say, "but look, he's doing it too!" No, you pick a townie (if you're newbishscum. Otherwise you don't say that at all, of course). His hiplop interactions too. He's not scum with hiplop. Go read posts 231 and 242 and explain to me how Sloth could be scum with TS. (sorry can't link. On phone).

Faraday is town because of TS' reaction to the fake cop claim. If they were scum buddies and Faraday were gambiting, TS wouldn't have said a damn thing.

My list of town reads is in order of who I like most. Though you, zdenek and faraday have all recently beat me as scum (and I'm still in my rage cage), he's at the top because of the accent. Seriously, have you heard the accent?

[Setael]

What do you think of the connection between you and Vi?

[Setael]

sigh hiplop only popping in to say hello when under pressure is

annoying

scummy.

Fixed that for ya.

@hiplop: so you agree there is a connection, but think Vi is latching onto a townie read? What are Vi's reasons for thinking you're town, as far as you know? Has Vi's read on you always been town?

[Setael]

The thing is, hiplop was definitely scum with TS. Vi is a likely buddy and I think that is the case, but there are other possibilities for the third, albeit less likely ones. The only way we're guaranteed to hit scum today is if we lynch hiplop.

I'm not scum, i dont really know what to say to defend myself after that post as it was pretty convincing :\

You know who said almost exactly this after being the focus in a similar wall of death? Pine in Rhinox's game.

[Setael]

I'm not scum, i dont really know what to say to defend myself after that post as it was pretty convincing :\

well that one then not his last one.

How is that post town?

To be perfectly honest, I've put this off. Why? Because Setael's case is incredibly thorough, well-researched, and seemingly air-tight.

Similar, no?

[Setael]

[quote="Faraday"]they're pretty much the sameeeee but i think town are more likely to post that. idk.[/quote]

I definitely disagree. If someone posted a wall of death on me when I was town I'd go ballistic and refute every point. Because I'm town so it's all garbage and can be refuted. Only scum would see a solid case on them and think/say something like that because they know it's all true, and therefore every thing they say in an attempt to refute it will be a lie.

[Setael]

I disagree here. If Hiplop and Faraday are scum, then it means he was bussing one buddy while clearing Hiplop with the phony investigation result that they arranged during the night. However, that would mean that he is tying himself closely with his two scum-buddies, which isn't too likely either.

Don't you think that if they arranged it during the night, they'd have done it a little better? Do you think the plan was for faraday to fake a guilty and for hiplop to claim miller? And then, what? TS botched it up? So hiplop then decided not to claim miller? Read that interaction again. It makes no sense for faraday to be scum with both hiplop and TS.

[Setael]

Please be scum, hiplop. I'd like to continue believing that the wall of death is never wrong.

[Setael]

If it's Vi, why was Zdenek the NK? Just for WIFOM purposes?

It's making me second guess my reads, so I guess it worked... ?

I'm going to sleep on it.

[Setael]

Slept on it.

Vote: Vi

[Setael]

Neruz: Can we get a prod on Sloth if you haven't already? Thanks.

[Setael]

I'd forgotten Zdenek was vig, so it seemed odd he'd be NK'd over Faraday, you or me.

I don't think sloth could've been scum with TS, and Vi's interactions with hiplop have been sketchy pretty much all game so I'm confident Vi's the last scum.

[Setael]

Setael's replacement was obscene

Um... sorry. I guess?

Not sure what else to say. GG.

[Setael]

Vi - Kills Setael (WHOOPS)

Am I missing something?