Mini 1170: Nowhereville Mafia '11- Over!

[PJ.]

10 pages already? Wasn't aware the game had started.

[PJ.]

Thoughts from reading the game.
The Kool is scum. Every post he makes strengthens my scumread on him. I can take any of his posts, point at how he is just posting for the sake of it, and not to hunt scum. Many of his posts are scummy as well.
LordChronos is so town my head hurts.
Elfin does not impress, and while he seems to be very new, I'm not reading him as scum.
SleepyKrew is probably Kool's scumbuddy. cloudocean is likely the third scum.
Everyone else is floating around in the middle somewhere.

Espeonage, in 103 you list three people as scum, why did you vote Elfin over the other two?

Unvote, vote The Kool

There is no way anyone can still be clinging to an Elfin vote and think it's a good idea. Those voting him need to post a very compelling case, or move on. I'll be posting a case on The Kool shortly (though Espeonage highlighted the main point, how The Kool has no interest in posting anything relevant).

I agree with this, but I'm thinking that

Vote:SleepyKrew

is the better play. Overaggressive and pounding on Elfen, who is obviously town and confused, just makes him seem like he is trying to grab an easy lynch here.

I also like LordChronos as scum over cloudocean, but I wouldn't be opposed to either.

[PJ.]

P.S. What should i do?
1. Should I stay on here and ignore the test tomorrow??
2.Study for biology(test Friday) study for Spanish(tomorrow) oor study all the countries for tomorrow

If this is seriously a question, i think you shouldn't have hobbies.

[PJ.]

also why where you late to the game?? O.o

10 pages already?

Wasn't aware the game had started

.

@ Pan, why do you think SK is scum?? Could you put your reasoning to why he may or may not be?? just curious

I feel he blew little things out of proportion, as well as deliberately going after you because he thought you would be an easy lynch. He got about as far as he could before people started to resist you wagon and then direnctly attacked one of your main defenders. If he truly believed you were scum, he should have kept at stringing you up, and once you flipped scum, then go after Kalofer on the premise he is your scum buddy.. SK is trying to attack him for defended you on that premise without you being scum.

If necessary, I'll do some post by post analysis.

[PJ.]

Why do you think I'm scum exactly? Also, what do you think of Kalofer?

I personally feel you have been sheeping on Sleepy, and I don't think you're vote on Kalofer is very geniune at all, seems manufactured.

I think Kalofer has a poor way of articulating is opinions but his opinions seems sound and town.

[PJ.]

I don't see where SK defended you, and I don't feel kalofer's vote for you is a real vote.

[PJ.]

EBWOP: @Elfen, please stop typing words like "teh" and please attempt to have better grammar.

[PJ.]

I don't agree with that assessment, you more called him out for using Random.org. Skinny was the first to call him out on a "contradiction"

I think Kalofer was kinda joking with post 220, you challenged him to change his vote, he did so fully intending to ruffle your feathers and see what you'd do. Instead of realizing this as intentional, you're using this as an artificial way to jump on the bandwagon, one that (possibly coincidentally) Skinny Krew started.

[PJ.]

He's only made one serious post since he changed it. We'll see what he does.

[PJ.]

On Kalofer and Kool: Their arguement feels like distancing to me. I would also like to admit to Chronos I read the situation wrong, and that improves my read of Chronos and definently makes me think a lot less highly of Kalofer.

Vote:Kool

P.S For some reason I prefer calling SleepyKrew, SkinnyKrew.

[PJ.]

I think they two scummiest people here are Kal and Sleepy to be honest with you. Elfen is confirmed town. I think Kool is confirmed scum but at this point I think we can save him for the second lynch if we catch his buddy.

Sleepy seems to be defending Kool(could be his buddy), while Kal is obviously distancing. Not sure which side i want to pick in the end, but I do want a claim

Vote:Kalofer

[PJ.]

Vote:Quinnster

That's a cardinal sin in my book. Between blatant rolefishing and being over defensive of another player(buddying), I really think you're today's lynch and if you flip scum, we'd be certain kool is town(because why would scum rolefish a scum buddy).

I highly recommend this because it gives us a ton more information then a Kool or Kalofer does at this point.

@Supreme, I've been playing this game for a long time and I feel fairly confident in my ability to accurately read players as new as Elfen and Kool, mostly because they are being rather obvious. If Quinnster pops scum, I would have to eat my words on Kool, but I'm absolutely positive Elfen is town and I'm not sure there's much that could change my opinion(to the point if Quinn rolefished Elfen I would be calling for his lynch even more fervantly). I do agree with you that I shouldn't speak in absolutes during a game of mafia.

[PJ.]

Early claim reeks of summiness. I'd be willing to bet the scum team is Kalofer, Quinnster, and Kool at this point.

@Coolskins: Because in the case of a newb scum, I tend to let him linger. I'll explain my reasonings later.

[PJ.]

@Kalofer
Accepting and admitting is defensive, you say? Defensiveness is scummy, you say? Well, I'm not out to change your opinions, just to get scum (like you) killed! If we don't do it today, then I'll do it tonight!

Whoa, This is either a vig breadcrumb or a mafia slip up. Maybe an SK?

@Kal, what deal?


dude, my brain is on scum overload?

[PJ.]

Panzer, could you give me some links to games where you have correctly identified the alignment of newb players?

My games are over a year old at least and would require reading that I'm not willing to do, especially at 3 in morning, so I'll kindly ask that you take my word for it, or go through my games yourself.

Panzer, why did you go from 'if Quinnster is scum, Kool is town' in #326 to 'the scum team is Quinnster, Kalofer and Kool' in #341?
Also, I'm willing to cut you some slack over letting newbscum linger; it somewhat mirrors my own opinions, I think.

My initial read was Quinn was scum rolefishing a townie. I thought about it more and I believe they either have fake claims or could of established them Night 0, and Quinn was trying to save his buddy by having him claim. Kinda like throwing a fat pitch, trying to get him to hit it out of the park to get us to stop suspecting him, but it was a poor gambit.

[PJ.]

I think Charter is the townest person here, so you're not gonna have my support on a charter wagon. At this point, a charter wagon would be anti town, we have three main suspects that stand above and beyond anyone else, and it's not even that close. They all will give substantial info about each other(and others) when they die. Trying to lynch anyone else right now is just flat non-productive. That's why I've entirely laid off you because I feel getting someone that isn't Kal, Kool, or Quinn is just plain wrong.

[PJ.]

I'd be willing to bet that Quinnster replaced out because he was caught scum, this happens quite often. Sorry earworm, but your predecessor has screwed you. Earworm can't answer for things that quinnster's done and the replacement has effectively left us in a situation where the correct play is to lynch earworm.

@Elfen, also curious why you copied all of kalofer's reads, and why am I neutral "plain and simple"

[PJ.]

Would you still please read my exchange with him before he went V/LA? Also, what makes him the towniest? It's say hydraguy is the town leader and will be VERY sad/angry if he/they turn(s) out scum. Grammar with a hydra is so difficult

I have read the exchange, and I have played 4-5 games with charter, I can get a feel for him and his read's happen to be very similar to mine and we are on similar lines of thought.

[PJ.]

Regardless of whether the replacment confirms him, I still think it's the correct play.

[PJ.]

Charter is V/LA

[PJ.]

But it DOES cut off conversation, intentional or not. Earworm already played the "I can't talk about it so lets just not card" and to be honest it's unfair to really ask him to, but that slot doesn't change because we can't ask new questions. Look, we got some answers, the answers were unacceptable and along with his general scummy behavior before that, it's unexcuseable not to lynch earworm.

[PJ.]

I'd be willing to bet that Quinnster replaced out because he was caught scum, this happens quite often.

Sorry earworm, but your predecessor has screwed you.

Earworm can't answer for things that quinnster's done and the replacement has effectively left us in a situation where the correct play is to lynch earworm

.

The italics doesn't make the bold untrue. Earworm is still the play.

[PJ.]

This is a reminder that Kalofer just hopped on the bandwagon "based on whateveryone else said"

Answers were also lame.

[PJ.]

You're opinions are clearly Biases, while I don't exactly agree with Kool, you can't say "I'm not defending quinn" then say "I'm at L-1 so I'll defend him now". That's more scummy then sticking to your guns.

[PJ.]

Observe the evasiveness of my accusations as well, Kal could very well be tomorrow's lynch.

Earworm, I want you to self hammer

[PJ.]

I don't see what was so out of line. If he were a PR, he'd have claimed when Kal put him at L-1 instead of pandering to us by talking about Quinn's actions that he said he wouldn't talk about. Also any analysis of his on Quinn's play would assuredly be seen through rose-colored glasses. In my humble opinion a self hammer is a sign of good will. I understand that is controversial but it hardly is something to call for my lynch on. At that cases' best, I'm eccentric, not scum.

Also how does him being town make me scum? The correct play is to lynch him today. Does being wrong mean everyone on the wagon is scum? No. I would look for people who jumped on the wagon in a scummy fashion, not the guy that built it.

As far as I can tell, all the rest of the day has to offer is talk about quinnster's play, which was scummy beyond defense. I'm ready for a lynch unless he has something to claim.

Preview Edit: I was correct in my first paragraph, lynch em

[PJ.]

I think we need a replacement for Supreme Overlord

[PJ.]

Okay guys, we're getting off track. Everyone give your read on earworm, if you think he is scummy, throw your vote on him. If you don't explain why.

[PJ.]

Yeah, I want reasons as to why he isn't hammered. NS can catch up during night so that reason is invalid.

[PJ.]

Why not?

[PJ.]

Why? He'll have three days to catch up. There is no reason other than stalling to wait for NS.

[PJ.]

I seriously doubt that. at this point, i think the scumteam could be you, ear, and NS. It seems like your stalling so you and NS can make a play at saving your buddy. Quinn's actions do suggest that he could be your scumbuddy.

[PJ.]

There is no reason to wait. Hammer.

[PJ.]

Where you at, NS?

[PJ.]

Unvote, vote: Panzer

Reread what you have read in the last page and make a nice little case on why you aren't scum and if I like I won't try and derail Ear's wagon.

Oh, Espe unvoted. Well then.

Vote: earworm

L-1. I won't hammer because I'm still reading, but I won't be sad if the hammer is dropped.

Clearly I was correct, and we were just wasting our time. The hammer could have been dropped and NS would have had no opinion on it. The correct play is earworm. It's been earworm. And he should have been hammered a while ago. Also, the burden of evidence is on the accuser espeonage.

[PJ.]

@Kalofer,because I'm looking at 4 days in a row at work and if it's night I won't fall behind. Also, if the lynch is there and we are just going around in circles(and one of the people we are waiting for told us to go ahead) I would rather just make the play. Saves me from falling behind and in my opinion the most meaningful conversation is behind us. In short, I'm just frustrated that we have the correct play and we are waiting for guys to catch up when Night is the best time to do that and have them post in the beginning of day 2 and I'd prefer to be in Night the next 3 days due to extenuating circumstances.

[PJ.]

I work outside, I can't read at work. Everyone's situation is different, I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

And the reasoning was at Coolskins not Kalofer.

Anyway, I still feel earworm is the play and I still don't see the point in waiting. And I don't see how that makes me scum. Can anyone give any good reasons for any other lynch beside earworms?

[PJ.]

Can anyone give any good reasons for any other lynch beside earworms?

Not yet, because

I haven't finished reading the thread.

Why are you in such a hurry, aside from your own selfish wish to have night RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE so that it fits into your personal schedule? IMO, your schedule outside of mafia is less critical than doing what's best for town.

While I agree that it was Selfish and Tactless, I maintain that it wasn't scummy.

Also, your vote relinquishes your right to say that you haven't caught up

@Sleepy, You can't hammer this far before deadline and say it's againt your will and try to get townie points for him flipping town. You're most definently scum.

[PJ.]

Can I unhammer?

Unvote

If you aren't lynched tomorrow, I'll quit Mafia forever.

Directing the Doc? Really? You're right, why weren't you lynched today

[PJ.]

It was a joke, Also you're directing powerroles, and buddying to CooLSkins, that is the scummiest thing done all game.

[PJ.]

YOU STILL DON"T DIRECT POWERROLES

[PJ.]

Panzer is tomorrow's lynch. See you all for Day 2.

You still haven't explained why

[PJ.]

Brilliant, we have tomorrow's lynch. Panzer, i don't care if you're town or not (If Earworm is you probably aren't) that was out of order. You ask for a claim instead. And you are only allowed to do that if they are at L-1 and you aren't on the wagon already.

Unvote, vote: Panzer

Reread what you have read in the last page and make a nice little case on why you aren't scum and if I like I won't try and derail Ear's wagon.

Post 1 isn't valid, and Post 2 isn't a reason

[PJ.]

First, it gives scum more information to most effectively plan their night phase, second, it open to abuse. Scum could abuse it by misdirecting power roles.

Also, I don't buy Sleepy as Vig for a second(or his whole "I didn't kill charter post"). Yes, Charter's dead, but if it is even his kill, he could still be SK or Scum. Both instances he could fake claim vig and it would make sense cause he had a scum read on charter. Also, it would make sense for both SleepySK or SleepyScum to kill charter because Charter was the most vocal person against Sleepy.

Vote:Sleepy

based on the the kill benefitting him and general scumminess from yesterday.

Also, Espeon, are you gonna post a case?

[PJ.]

Why am I a scum suspect?

[PJ.]

I already stated, that your reason was entirely invalid, moving on I guess.

[PJ.]

So you're claiming SK or scum? cool.

[PJ.]

How am I sheep? I've been saying you're scum for a while now. Long before CoolSkins posted that wall.

[PJ.]

You dropped your argument on me long before D1 ended. Sheeeeeep goes bah.

I dropped it to chase after Quinn, who was far more scummy then you, I didn't drop it cause you weren't scum

Also before day ended, I made it quite clear I would have rather have lynched you for directing powerroles.

[PJ.]

Because I was unaware how directing PRs is bad. Now I'm aware.

Essentially your main defenses are 1)I was unaware that I was acting scummy and 2)My entire wagon is sheep.

Compelling.

[PJ.]

Wow,

Unvote

Lurker scum? CloudOcean and Chronos have been lurking super hard.

Kalofer seems like he is flailing pretty hard. Just kinda throwing votes and seeing what sticks.(didn't think I'd be agreeing with SK)

Vote:Kalofer

[PJ.]

Sudden epiphany:I'd be willing to bet Hipplop is lying, Seems weird that he would vote Sleepy after getting a result on him with gunsmith. Also SK's are generally considered not to have guns so He wouldn't sense the SK(they carry knives in most games here)

[PJ.]

Unvote, Vote:Hiplop

I want a full claim.

[PJ.]

How does that make sense? All scum can kill people

[PJ.]

No, it means that you're lying and he's unconfirmed.

[PJ.]

Are we all posting reads right now?

Scum:
Kool

Scummy:
CloudOcean
Kalofer

Neutral:
Hiplop
Sleepy
Chronos

Townish:
Espeon
CoolSkins

Town: Elfen and Myself

Also, what ever happened to that Kool wagon, we can all claim D3 or 4 so I'm comfortable with trusting espeon's gut and going back to the Kool Wagon. Let's face it, the guy hasn't gotten any more town, I said D1 he was confirmed scum, and a lot of people(including Charter who is confirmed town) thought Kool was scum

Unvote Vote:Kool

Just looked at his vote history, all his votes have come after 3-4 people were already on the wagon and generally consist of OMGUS or "yeah what he said" Seems to just be trying to fit in with the town and going with whichever lynch will go his way.

I'd be willing to bet him and kalofer are buds.

[PJ.]

I do not at this moment support a Cloudocean lynch.

Kal, I can get behind.

I'm gonna IC for a minute, sorry if this offends anyone.

@Elfen:It's generally anti-town to hunt third party members, ewhile scum is still alive. SKs generally have to claim vig, then when we have almost rounded up all the scum we have the vig shoot themselves or be lynched. This way the Sk is in a position where they lose no matter what, and town still has a chance to win. By hunting the Sk, you're essentially missing the big picture.

[PJ.]

As I was typing that for Eflin, I realized something. I think hiplop is the SK and is full shit.

[PJ.]

This wagon picked up WAAAY too fast and Sleepy, Kal, and Hiplop are all on it. Don't like this one bit.

Unvote

I'm pretty sure none of those people are town.

[PJ.]

Panzers trying to seperate himself from the wagon. Could be scum? Maybe

Wrong, I'm attempting to derail it because it's probably wrong seeing how fast it picked up and with how little reasoning was behind it.

Sleepy has been acting scummy all game and I agree with Esp's assessment that Sleepy isn't cleared.

Hiplop is getting scummier by the minute. Also I feel he hopped on the wagon the scummiest by far, and once he thought it'd be safe and is now trying to say I'm scummy for realizing scum hopped on.

[PJ.]

4 votes over 25 post is pretty fast.

No, you're scum because you jumped on the wagon without a reason, you jumped on Sleepywagon without a reason, you then unvoted and said you got a result, then said you didn't get a result and you had to think about it(implying you vote without thinking), are trying to throw suspicion on me for derailing a wagon and pointing out that it grew in a really scummy way.

[PJ.]

lmao. I thought Sleepy was scum. agh, pretty much you're suspecting me because you dont understand,

im so tempted to claim right now

:\

ive said this like 15 times, its not an info role.

I HAD TO think about it. I was never straight up told he had no killing role. I didnt think much of it at first, but when i thought more, i realized it cleared him from killing ie Mafia likely killed charter to frame SK, or SK is mafia and he isnt the one in charge of kills.

Can we please, move on? seriously this has been discussed enough

This is setting up a Vig fake claim. He's starting to Flail.

Ok Panzer, do you a deal. We lynch SK over hip. SK has already claimed VT. Then if SK turns out to be mafia we lynch hip. Sound good?

Actually even if he doesn't turn out to be scum we still keep the option of voting hip open but not set in stone.

I can do that, but I want more support for that first.I'm gonna continue my pursuit of Hiplop for now

Also:@CoolSkins, Kool wasn't a town read. Also I was commenting on the speed and the lack of a reason

@Chronos: I really like the reasoning on that Kalofer vote

[PJ.]

No, im not setting up a vig, idiot. Don't assume

Im the jailkeeper. I jailkept sleepykrew, and the kill still went through...

See how i had to think about it now?

Now we go for panzer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

Bullshit

Vote:Hiplop

[PJ.]

No, You can't mistake what he is claiming to have mistook. Every vote on someone that is voting on you isn't OMGUS

Unless the Mod took some serious liberties with the way the role PM was written(or the English language), there is no way you could have missed the fact that Jailkeeping someone roleblocks them. Also, that's essentially the main way to play jailkeeper, is use it as an RB role.

The actions and the claim do not add up. Either this is a lying scum or a lying SK. But one way or another, Hiplop is not a jailkeeper.

[PJ.]

So if I claimed Day Rolecop right now, you'd have a problem lynching me?

[PJ.]

No, because there is no need for you to claim right now.

So the fact that I'd be lying about my role doesn't concern you? Only the timing?

[PJ.]

Panzer, like it or not Hip's claim seems genuine.

How is this?

[PJ.]

So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

[PJ.]

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

[PJ.]

No, im not setting up a vig,

idiot.

Don't assume

Im the jailkeeper. I jailkept sleepykrew, and the kill still went through...

See how i had to think about it now?

Now we go for panzer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Panzer

This is the post he voted me in and really the first time(possibly second) he mentioned me being scummy. Note the adhom and the lack of a reason. Essentially he voted me because i was pressuring him.

[PJ.]

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS

[PJ.]

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

[PJ.]

Or is his buddy that isn't gonna out him

[PJ.]

We'll see how the rest of the day goes, as I said earlier. I still like a CO(lurker),Sleepy,or Kal lynch, but I wanna see what others have to say, if everyone agrees that Hiplop should make it, then I'll concede, but I think he is scummy scummy scum.

[PJ.]

^ Good Posting

[PJ.]

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS

No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
Ive mentioned that

A.you're scum/idiot for a while now

. And you're further pointing this out. Its not OMGUS, i genuinely think you're scum.

B.I jailkept Sleepykrew, the kill still went through. I didnt think about that, i just assumed he could be scum, the killing f charter made sense. I thought about it, and then i realized it was bad-posting by me, and i was likely accusing a townie

. Dont ever talk for me.

So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Um,

C. i had votes on me when i claimed

, and you were trying to get a wagon on me, yeah i softclaimed before then? i didnt want someone who could easily be townie, to be killed.

D. You've been twisting my words far oo much.

Also, how doesnt it make sense? Its a normal role, it made sense with what ive been saying from the start. You just want t oconfuse everyone, so you're safe.

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

E. No, you're doing the OMGUS thing. You're trying to come at me, because i'm a PR.

And espeonage is right, charter dies, after hes tunneling SK..little suspicious dontyathink?

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

1. Theres a higher chance that scum attempted to frame him by killing charter. Really its the closest we have to confirmation

i dont understand the second point

How have i slipped up?

F. if you knew how to play mafia, you would understand my breadcrumbs

.

Take off your tunnel glasses.

So you are all for lynches,

G. that you havent said ANYTHING ABOUT

? Seriously, you're so likely scum right now, and you're stuff doesnt make all that much sense in that short post

A. Is untrue. You've have literally mentioned me being scum twice in the entire game.(before this post) Also it's Ad Hom. Which is typical in OMGUS attacks.

B. But How does that clear him? Out of 3 scum only one makes a kill. So you have a 33% chance of blocking scum's kill. Why are you clearing Sleepy over a 33% chance? On top of this, in you 903 you essentially agree that Sleepy isn't cleared and you should have never said he was, yet still say "good job reading your post" like you did the right thing, you didn't. You unvoted someone that still had a 66% chance of being scum given your result. To be honest with you, the post you agreed with in 903, is most of my arguement why you are scum.

C. Actually you didn't. Both me and Chronos unvoted and voted elsewhere.

D. Where?

E. No I'm coming at you because you're lying about a PR

F. Ad Hom(again reeks of OMGUS). Also, what breadcrumbs? The ones where you confuse half of us by making us think you were an info role? The one where you say Sleepy is cleared when he isn't? The one where you then say that you aren't an info role but he's cleared still?

G. What? You realize that most of Day 1 I was all over both sleepy and Kalofer, right? Just as everyone else, I've mentioned CO as lurkerscum. I really don't see how this statement of your is true. Essentially while accusing me of twisting your words, You have (on several occasions) accused me of things that are just plain untrue. Further evidence that it is you that is voting me to cover up your piss poor play.


@Cloudocean's last post: okay it's not a compelling case, but your play is indicative of scum. All you have done is stay in the back and shoot off pithy one liners and wagon people. So if you're bored with the arguement give us something else to say.

unvote, Vote:CloudOcean

[PJ.]

Well CO can claim now..

[PJ.]

^at l-2? Claim fisher?

-CooLDoG

I thought we were l-1, my bad.

[PJ.]

So everyone quits posting? Cool.

[PJ.]

I agree with Hiplop's plan of hammering in 4 and a half hours unless Sleepy wanted to beat him to it by an hour or 2

[PJ.]

I'd prefer a panzer lycnh; hes being scummy as hell, being sort of unproductive? and dude is begging for a hammer, that kind of irks me. I'll hammer soon, i think we should talk a little more before though.

If cloud is town, i think Panzer has a huge chance of being scum. What is everyone elses thoughts on panzer?? im not going to tunnel,, but i get a bad feeling from him.

Apologies for any typos! I got a new keyboard and i'm not quite used to it yet

I'm still waiting for actual reasons

aggresion =/= scum

[PJ.]

You're the one who said you'd hammer, I said I agreed unless Sleepy wanted to do it. Not really begging just giving approval

Also I don't see how 833 was super defensive especially coming from the guy that claimed with 0 votes on him.

[PJ.]

Are you saying you tried to "protect" esp?

[PJ.]

That explains why espeonage is dude, he's Mafia roleblocker.

I'm gonna claim now because it's lylo.

I'm the real Jailkeeper, I didn't wanna claim yesterday because I didn't wanna give scum more info.

Vote:Hiplop

I protected espeonage both nights

[PJ.]

So umm... Why's Esp dead if you Jailed him?

Because Hiplop is a Roleblocker and targetted me last night.

[PJ.]

panzer just claimed scum. I'm 100% sure on this. I claimed yesterday, to protect someone, as i thought they were town. He didn't counterclaim, and his only problem with my claim was that i did it without votes on me. Hes bullshitting to the max. He knew he couldn't kill me at night, as iwas going for him. So he killed espeonage, who was defending me/generally townie/good player, and knew that town might believe him over me.

Kool is against mass claims, votes with Panzer, has been scumy all game. The scum team is panzer/kool 100% sure. Why would i claim to protect someone, as scum? especially when this could happen.

VOTE: Panzer

The timing was one of the only problem that i could mention without claiming and giving scum(you) unnecessary information. Jailkeeper generally means no doc and since Espeon had claimed, I didn't want to claim and let you guys know that in order to protect him I had to block him as well.

Also, coolskins. I knew what i meant, i just overthought it i suppose. Panzers been twisting my words all game, all i said was it meant SK didnt have a killing role. he just kept pushing to make me rage, so he could do this. If you guys believe him then *facepalm*

also, why would a townie, wait till lylo to counterclaim someone who would be obvi-scum if they were the actual role. Hes so obviously scum

You still haven't showed us where i twisted your words, I have just infered the meaning of them.

you didnt want to give scum info? if i wasn't the jailkeeper, that would make me scum from your perspective (guarenteed). As i would be lying. If you were the real jailkeeper, you would have claimed to kill me. Thats not giving scum info, thats killing scum

I know hes not an idiot town, he wouldnt do that. Guys, smarten up. We have the scumteam

You are scum guaranteed, that's why I said you were scum right when you claimed with a resounding bullshit. I couldn't get anyone behind your lynch, so I went for the next scummiest player(who happened to be SK). And why would I claim before I had to? If a skilled cop gets a guilty on someone, he makes a case on them, he doesn't say "hey guys, I'm the cop and here's the guilty" Gives scum too much info. And yes, I would have lynched scum but giving the scum infor in return. They would know both info role(Espeon and Charter), known what is most likely the only protective role(me), and known that in order to protect Espeon I'd have to block him. Meaning they could just kill me and him in consecutive nights.

I just looked at your ISO, you have done absolutely nothing this game, but give a fake claim, defend your fake claim, and make baseless accusations that I'm scum.

[PJ.]

Some mods go with whoever sent it first.

Question, does who sent it first matter? Two role blockers rbing the same targeting t= to both targeting a vt. Now it would make a difference if one was a jail keeper and that person got targeted or a kill. Think before you post next time.

In some cases it is actually relevant. Some mods let Mafia RBs kill and RB if their the last person left. If him and a town RB role block eachother if the cancel out the kill could go through depending on if the mod runs it. There are threads in MD on this with this example.

@hip, out of interest would you quote the places where panzer mis-reped you? And why did it take you so long to claim your role? I don't see a town motivation for dragging your feet

for so long

over it. It really did distract the town.

I didnt want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because i explained myself poorly, so i had to.

and sure, its kind of out of context i guess but

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS
So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

Just an example, i urge you guys to go to page 35/36. Hes taking things out of context etc.

and look at kool, hes obviously scum too. He doesnt even have to hide it because panzer is unfortunately doing an ok job. We've found the scum team, all we have to do is lynch them.

Read paner's posts yesterday, nothing about them sound like a counter-claim-lynch. He made that up now to get me killed. Props to him if he actually wins with that, but if so town is [/quote]

I'm in a hurry but more on this in next post.

@chronos and cool: no crumbs

[PJ.]

I didnt want to full claim, but people kept asking questions. I didn't want to have to claim, but a wagon on me was obviously starting because i explained myself poorly, so i had to.

What? You had 2 votes and no claim and then after a couple pages
and 2 unvotes you claimed. You had no votes on you. Most suspicion had dropped off you. Your explanation doesn't make any sense at all. Coolskins did a good job of explaining it, you soft claimed to save sleepy and full claimed to save yourself when you perceived pressure.

In my opinion this is scum that cracked under pressure.

and sure, its kind of out of context i guess but

But he didn't assume that Sleepy was scum. He was assuming he had a killing role. And that still doesn't clear him from being scum, so even if he did have to think about it, the kill going through just clears him from making the kill not being scum, so the vote still should have stood.

Also, I'm not asking you to tell me what to think, I'm asking you to explain how you think. Communication is key. While that sentence stands, i want Hiplop to explain himself. Not just say, "can't you see it". Cause I can't.

Also, his vote is still OMGUS
So the fact that Hiplop had 0 votes on him at the time of the claim and the fact that his claim just flat doesn't make sense, indicaes that he isn't lying?

Convicted, not desperate. Also, this isn't OMGUS. If anything it's him that is OMGUS on me.

Please explain how Jailkeeping someone then accusing them of killing someone then saying you had to "think about your result" and unvote them makes sense. Cause I sincerely can't make sense of it.

8,11,12,13 all were fairly ambiguous and he was voting purely on the fact that Charter was dead.

And if he thought, he convinced his buddies to kill charter and but someone else made the kill, why unvote sleepy?

Also,Why not revote him after we told him that doesn't confirm him town because he could still be scum, if that was his reasoning?

To me it sounds like he slipped up with what he wanted his fake claim to be. I think he is a Scum Roleblocker, this also doesn't confirm Sleepy, cause sleepy doesn't have a role he can confirm that was blocked.

Just an example, i urge you guys to go to page 35/36. Hes taking things out of context etc.

Any reason you didn't post the things that I was responding too? I am pretty sure I was responding to specific things you said and if we can't see that then we can't see where i'm twisting your words.

I think we need Kal and Sleepy to post. Where has Kalofer been?

[PJ.]

wait, who do you guys think could be my 'buddy'? I dont think there are ANY connections between me and other players, like there is between Kool and Panzer. They vote together, never voted eachother despite wagons going on both. The scumteam is Cool/Kool/Panzer. Unfortunately, i know this but you guys probably wont believe me.

Still spouting off inaccuracies even in death I see. You realize I

started

the Kool wagon, right?

So hammer would be cool.

[PJ.]

Not begging, just saying. You're scum. You're appealing to emotion. You've made a lot of baseless accusations, and refused to show evidence. It's time. You're not even trying at this point.

Also, you said that me and Kool were never on each others wagons, which I proved is untrue. You can't say "you guys were never on each other's wagons, you're scum" then say "you tried to bus him, you guys are scum". That is some serious cognitive dissonance.

i don't under stand all this me and kool linking nonsense. I believe the scum team could be Kool/SK/Hiplop. but not sure.

[PJ.]

congrats on the win scum

Thank you.

[PJ.]

I know you did, I just couldn't say thank you before you were lynched. Glad I could save Kool and glad all the power roles claimed early.

[PJ.]

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/tYfbQq7B
That's the Mafia QT btw.

[PJ.]

Shit just realized this game isn't over....please don't modkill me for that Midnight sorrow...

[PJ.]

We gotta make a night kill but I think everyone is VT...well at least I certainly hope they are...alsso i think that was not only a modkillable but a bannable one....fuck...

[PJ.]

I'll let Midnight Sorrow see it first and see how he feels then me and him can talk to mith about punishment if he feels the same way I do..

Sorry to my scum team and sorry to both Midnight's sorrow and everyone else that put their time into this game if I did indeed get my self modkilled and ruin the game.

[PJ.]

Okay, cool..all that jazz.

And yeah, SK should have not hammered because the case was that they were scum together.

[PJ.]

Surprisingly, I can see that. The AtE at the end did seem like a horrible play.

[PJ.]

Yeah. Knew that I needed to check on Cool as I figured if he was scum he would do the kill to avoid and actions working it out.

gg scum. SK, I know your head was in the right place with the Vig softclaim but it kind of resulted in multiple things being outed. Also, hip. The jailkeep is a doc protect FIRST and a roleblock SECOND. Even though it wouldn't have stopped anything you should've been protecting me night two not trying to roleblock a scum.

Yeah it would of made my play a lot harded

[PJ.]

Yeah, I'm actually a genius.

[PJ.]

D-voter?