Mini 1195: The Beehive Mystery (GAME OVER)

[Acronach]

Sleepykrew? eh..
Acronach was a fun scumpartner to have until He replaced out of the game we were in. I look forward to this

you're forgetting the game you screwed up and then replaced out of.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17550
your fail reaction test coupled with the face that GreyIce was your replacement messed up my reads and almost screwed the town over.

anyway, moving on. holding my vote since it looks like we're already out of RVS.

[Acronach]

you should really have more to say than that. Opinion on beck's pots for example.

still trying to get a read on him. hes a noob, so it mayve been an innocent mistake, although #28 makes me suspect he came here from EM.
@Beck the "other site" you were referring to please?
@confid holding my vote is scummy... why? pretty sure that post was a reaction test, but not 100%. please explain the logic behind voting me.

[Acronach]

its allowed, but it usually gets bad reactions anywhere outside of f62

[Acronach]

because i don't have a solid scumread on anyone ATM. once i get one, i'll vote it. simple as that. not really brain surgery here.
(inb4hepullsanoppratunistic-scumandsaysi'mBeck'sscumbuddyfornotvotinghim)

[Acronach]

(i'm writing responses as i read so bear with me here)

@ICE -5 GMT (US East Coast)

It's RVS and there is nothing more useless than an unused vote. You don't need a solid scumread yet. In fact, not voting is anti-town.
VOTE: Acro
~TS

now normally, i would give scumpoints here for assuming we're still in RVS and putting a vote up because of it, but since this particular post is coming from TwistedSpoon, i'm not going to call this scum or town. i'll need more time to analyse his play this game before i make any kind of a read on him.

Sleepykrew? eh..
Acronach was a fun scumpartner to have until He replaced out of the game we were in. I look forward to this

you're forgetting the game you screwed up and then replaced out of.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17550
your fail reaction test coupled with the face that GreyIce was your replacement messed up my reads and almost screwed the town over.

anyway, moving on. holding my vote since it looks like we're already out of RVS.

Top two scumspects?

the closest thing i have to a scumread so far would probably be yank. i like the point that ICE brought up in #50.

Acronach (2) – ConfidAnon, Captain Spoon
Not voting: (5) – Beck, rblinker123, The Kool, Acronach, Tommy

so... i have 2 votes the reason for both being that i did not vote. noted.

@confid and Spoon: is there any particular reason you chose to vote me over the 4 other people that didn't vote yet?

@CS
RVS is OVER. Acro did the right thing not slapping on a vote.
+5

this is awful

voting is the town's greatest weapon

Not voting is nearly always anti-town. You should

always

be applying pressure. How else are you suspposed to make the scum slip?

FoS: Sleepykrew

+10 if I was using SK's method of scumhunting

-.- this is by far the most fail post in this whole game...

VVV TwistedSpoon and archaebob need to read this!!! VVV

voting is the towns greatest weapon, yes, but theres no logic in just throwing it around like its nothing. suppose your in a war and one of your friends is wrestling with an enemy soldier. voting just for the sake of voting would be the equivalant of firing random shots at both of them and hoping you hit the right guy. wouldn't it make more sense to take the time to aim? that's what i think, and that's why i'm waiting to develop my reads before i put a vote up.

^^^ TwistedSpoon and archaebob need to read this!!! ^^^

RVS ended on page 1, and even if it somehow stretched into page 3, once some serious discussion starts up, i tend to hold my vote until i'm sure about what i'm doing. here's an example. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17550

because i don't have a solid scumread on anyone ATM. once i get one, i'll vote it. simple as that. not really brain surgery here.
(inb4hepullsanoppratunistic-scumandsaysi'mBeck'sscumbuddyfornotvotinghim)

It is simple. Though I'm curious as to why you qualified your original statement with "since the RVS is over," your logic for not voting is sound.

However, what originally drove me to vote, was the fact that you made the statement in the first place. As we both agree, the logic is simple - to the extent that I doubt anyone would suspect you for not voting (again, not what I've ever suspected you for). Why bother to tell us such an obvious fact? A trait I've noticed in various mafia games throughout the interwebs is that scum, more specifically newer scum, tend to want to make sure that everyone knows why they are doing what they are doing, so that they won't get suspected for it. Your statement seems to fall in line with that. Paranoid about being called out in the early game, so you over-clarify your stance on why its too early to take a stance.

i see your logic here, and normally i would agree with it, but in this particular case, i'm the one in question. i find that usually i'm more nervous about getting lynched as a townie than i am as scum/third party. it's a play flaw that i've been trying to deal with and hopefully get rid of. in any case i usually don't talk about it. don't feel like pulling a nintendo and using it as an excuse.

your fos on me is completely validated and i do not blame you for it.

I have a conclusion to make but I need an Acro post first

your conclusion?

wow, reading page 5 and i feel kinda bad for being away all morning.

I'm not in the habit of checking if every player is a VI

I assume they aren't unless someone tells me so as we're not in a newbie game

The game I played with him. He also gets OMGUSy under pressure.

and was he scum?

that doesn't make him a village idiot either way

in my game with Acro I didn't find him as a VI at all.

You're white-knighting here.

so you're saying mirror mafia was a better game for me than TWBM? seriously?

I personally don't like anything captain has been saying, he seems to be flailing a little bit.

The fact that it was pretty obvious RVS ended as soon as people reacted to my comment, he later claims it hadn't ended.

I also disagree about your comment about there not being a reason to not vote as town, I also don't like how you bring in these names of other mafia players to add credibility to that statement, because there is no way we can actually ask these people if they agree with that logic.

If you honestly believe that statement, you best find a game where these guys were town and essentially said it, right now I read it as a statement you are throwing out there to seem towny

Captain, your vote on Arco seems to make no sense at the moment but I do want to hear from him, right now i'm looking at this as a possible bussing attempt but we will see how the game progresses.

I also like the point that somebody made (can't remember who) that the jester comment definitely could have come from scum who knew I wasn't scum, and if that is the case that is one of the accidental benefits from making a statement like I did.

final note, Captain, people don't need votes on them to scum slip, there are other ways to get people to scum slip, there are other ways to scum hunt, just cause somebody isn't voting it doesn't mean they are automatically anti-town

you seem to be trying to hard to look like you are town by pointing all these things out that people at town should be doing.

Vote Captain

oh and just a note for the mod

MOD- I personally think all hydras need to out who their heads are, it's bad enough to be playing with ore than one, keeping it a secret just makes it worse

i'm running errands with the kids today, hopefully will be on later

oh and I am east coast time zone

since you're new here i'll give you a little tip. TS is the biggest idiot on this site. seriously, read all his past games and see why everyone is hesitating in calling his bad play scummy. his playstyle is completely different from any other playstyle i've seen, and as a result, it's hard to get any kind of a read on him.

I'm trying to talk to my other head right now, but He's not here at present

clearly, or he wouldnt let you post 99% of everything you've said so far.

that's not a contradiction
why would I go around teaching scum how to act town?

here, TS is actually right. there's a good reason to hide it, and krew needs to stop asking about it.

I'm seeing a lot of heat and no light from both sides. I'd like you to give specific reasons for your vote.

this. this so frieking hard.

My Reads

town
SleepyKrew
Tommy

leaning town
Greymarble
ICEninja
ConfidAnon

null
Beck
rblinker123
The Kool
subgenius

leaning scum
Captain spoon
Ivan the Pleasant
YankCane151

scum

so to sum it all up, i've seen plenty of scumtells so far, but more fail logic than scummy. nothing that i'd like to vote on yet.

PEDIT:
@ivan: sorry for having a life and not being on 24/7 to answer all your questions. normal people usually go to bed before 3AM and have stuff going on during the weekends, so ya. the fact that i was only able to be on 2 pages past RVS when almost nothing had been said yet means nothing, and i don't know how it's a scumtell.

[Acronach]

So shut up and vote.

okay.

vote: ivan

funny part is, i almost bought that post, until i read the "shut up and vote" part. something just rubbed me wrong about it. i reread... and i reread again, and finally, i decided i already have a minor scumread on you and i think your logic is either creating something out of nothing, or oppratunistic scum following spoon and confid.
to sum it all up, there is very little chance of you being town, and, your logic is just horrable. sad but true.

TS=VI
Confid=???
Ivan=oppratunistic scum

[Acronach]

happy?

[Acronach]

(thinking i should explain this better)

My theory on the "not voting=anti-town" logic

TS doing it i can see. he's an infamous VI and he generally has opinions that not many others share. surprisingly, he's willing to defend those opinions even when everyone else disagrees.

Confid kinda doing it i can also see. i know there are some people in the world that don't agree with popular opinions. i get that.

Ivan (hydra) doing it however i can't see. there are 13 slots in this game and only 3 of them have expressed this opinion. if this was legitimately not oppratunistic scum, than at least one of you should've said something in the hydra QT before that was posted. long story short, i don't buy it.

[Acronach]

from those 2 games i've played with you, you've drawn too much attention to yourself as scum, fucked up a game as town and then replaced out, and now in this one you're insisting that not voting is a scumtell no matter where the game is and basically saying you wish you could replace out because you don't want to face some minor ad hom that actually has some truth to it.

IMO, you're a VI.

[Acronach]

IMO, you are, so, that's what i'll say. meanwhile, this game is going on and we're currently debating something that's not relevant to it. gonna try to get back on topic now.

[Acronach]

@sub you voted me? quote please. also, after last game where i was basically blindsided by an obvbuss, i don't really blame SK for calling me VI.

@yank hmm, thought i mentioned that in my wall but i guess i didnt. i remember saying it somewhere though. anyway, i like the points that ICE brought up in #50

well I can't tell you, obv, or else Acro will change his post to appear more town which I will not want if Acro is scum

If i explain what the towntell is I'm looking for, then it would be useless as Acro will just purposefully include it

^^^i'm assuming i passed this test. if i didn't, please speak up.

[Acronach]

i'm not saying i'm a VI, i'm saying i see his point in calling me a VI. i made a pretty fail mistake, but that's off the point. that was last game, this is this game. don't really see why calling me a VI would help though, having a life doesnt really need an excuse.

although, i have a slight feeling that i'm being targeted more for doing things that half the people in the game are doing, such as being away for over 12 hours when other people were doing it and getting away with it, not contributing when greymarble had 1 post, and not voting when there were 4 other people that didnt vote yet. although i don't really see any particular motive for maf singling me out for a ML, that's what it's starting to look like. frequent accusations of stupid things that normally wouldn't be considered a scumtell. may or may not be true, but it's something to consider.

Condid, subgenius, Spoon, ivan, i will be watching all of you.

i'll also be watching SK.
1: it may be a bus
2: he's the only one i've played a full game with and he's been able to fool me before. if hes maf, it would be a good explaination as to why i'm the ML target.

this may or may not be the case, but it will be considered.

[Acronach]

No. Acro is in no way clear.

than I don't get your defense of him

ditto

[Acronach]

i see your logic here, and normally i would agree with it, but in this particular case, i'm the one in question. i find that usually i'm more nervous about getting lynched as a townie than i am as scum/third party. it's a play flaw that i've been trying to deal with and hopefully get rid of. in any case i usually don't talk about it. don't feel like pulling a nintendo and using it as an excuse.

your fos on me is completely validated and i do not blame you for it.

You still haven't really answered my question: Why is withholding your vote after the RVS different from during the RVS?

simple. because RVS is random voting stage. votes are supposed to be random and the purpose is to start up a conversation. after conversation starts up, RVS is officially over, and all votes need a good reason or else they will be seen as anti-town. i did not have a good reason to vote anyone at that point, so i did not vote anyone. this is not rocket science.

Your analogy falls apart because of the fundamental difference between this game and a gun fight. You are envisioning this as being a battle between declared sides, and that I'm just recklessly shooting at people in the hopes of hitting scum.

To add on to this: one bullet can be ruinous if it hits the wrong spot, but one vote on Day 1 in a normal game can't.

wrong. after the vote is up, you'll be expected to provide reasoning for the vote. if you're town and you don't have reasoning, you'll be a likely ML target.

funny part is, i almost bought that post, until i read the "shut up and vote" part. something just rubbed me wrong about it. i reread... and i reread again, and finally, i decided i already have a minor scumread on you and i think your logic is either creating something out of nothing, or oppratunistic scum following spoon and confid.
to sum it all up, there is very little chance of you being town, and, your logic is just horrable. sad but true.

Why did you already have a minor scum read on him?

mostly a gut read. something about the way hes thinking just rubs me as scummy.

TS doing it i can see. he's an infamous VI and he generally has opinions that not many others share. surprisingly, he's willing to defend those opinions even when everyone else disagrees.

Confid kinda doing it i can also see. i know there are some people in the world that don't agree with popular opinions. i get that.

We both believe that not voting is antitown, at least at this point in the game. However, TS seems to believe that this instance of antitown is scummy. I don't agree with that, my suspicion is coming from a different angle.

kk then, explain #31

anyway, moving on. holding my vote since it looks like we're already out of RVS.

Vote: Acronach

Why hold your vote because we're out of the RVS? That would seem like more of a reason to vote to me, since there is at least something substantial (albeit not much) to discuss.

[Acronach]

kk then, i'll be waiting

[Acronach]

...this is fucked up.

gonna take some time to think about what could be going on as far as the sleepy defense thing. i'll post tomorrow. if you want to see what he was directly referring to with the VI thing read this game from d3 on.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17550

[Acronach]

...this is fucked up.

gonna take some time to think about what could be going on as far as the sleepy defense thing. i'll post tomorrow. if you want to see what he was directly referring to with the VI thing read this game from d3 on.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=17550

lol Sleepy, every post you made in that game you had a new vote, wtf

fake post restriction ftw XD

it's not meant to be an example of us defending eachother, its meant to show you why sleepy is calling me a VI. obviously i'm not, but i'm showing you why he would have that impression. if i was maf and he was town, i would've just shut up and tried to get him lynch for it, but i'm town, and i'm interested in weather or not sleepy is town. honestly, i can see where hes coming from in both cases as far as the defending me is concerned, and that was more of a "voting vs. not voting" debate rather than a "lynch acro or dont lynch him" debate. i don't think he was defending me, but rather he was defending the idea that voting when you don't have a strong FOS on anyone in particular is anti-town.

i know defending him makes us look like scumbuddies. although he may be scum, i'm not. sleepy is in no way clear, i am in no way clear. i would be happy to take one for the town and be the first lynch, but i hope it doesn't come to that.

[Acronach]

Ivan seems to be trying to deflect votes away from sleepy...?

mental note: reread once i get on tomorrow and see if i notice this.

the "ditto" was earlier in the day, i had time to think about it/reread since then. and the other quote didn't really lean either way on the issue, so idk why you're even using it.

SK was referring to me because i was the one in question on the issue.

in response to sub's first quote:


i really can't say anything in regards to what you're saying about the VI thing because you obviouly didn't take the time to read the link i provided and therefore, have no fucking idea what you're talking about. at least skim through half of it, that's all i ask. thank you beck for reading the whole thing and not just from d3 to endgame which is where SK's VI argument comes from.

with that, i'm tired, i'm going to bed. goodnight.

[Acronach]

bleh. kk. 193 (srry for ignoring it for so long)

Oh no, hang on. I'm confused. SleepyKrew is going for Spoon, not you. So what do you mean by 'I'm the ML target'?

this was more of a theory i had about a possable SK/Condid/Ivan scumteam, because SK is under the impression that i'm a VI and in his opinion, i would be an easy target for a lynch. the plan went downhill though because they couldn't find enough evedence to make me look scum. thinking about it, i kind of doubt this because of SK defending me, but still, it could be distancing, ect.

just a theory though.

I didn't read the link, because it's irrelevant to my suspicions of him or you. I don't care why SK thinks you're a VI. I care why he went out of his way to defend you, and I care why you seem to be going out of your way to return the favor.

kk, well any arguments you make about the VI thing are irrevelant. deal with it.

I honestly wasn't trying to be insulting. I think the Captain Picard macro in response to me calling his argument WIFOM, which I think it is. Perhaps, calling it useless was a bit harsh, but I stand by my opinion that arguments that follow the form of:

If I was mafia, I would do A.
I did not do A,
Therefor I am not mafia.

Are not especially convincing.

Any insult was accidental, and I apologize.

In any case, he doesn't really seem to mind being called a VI, or at least he's not bothered by SK doing it, and as I've said, I'm really not interested in whether he is or isn't a VI. Judging purely on this game, I'd say he's not, but it's irrelevant. The important thing is the mutual defense between Acro and SK, which I still find quite suspicious.

not completely useless. if im town and SK is maf, why would he defend me? if SK is town and im maf, why would i defend him? using this logic, it's extremely unlikely that we have opposing alignments. not impossable, but unlikely.

But he's defending me. By your logic, isn't he my scumbuddy?

Yes, he spent a post dissecting my case against you, but my interpretation is that he was motivated more by wanting to make a case against me based on allegedly poor logic than wanting to defend you. Of course, when he questioned the logic of my case, it undermined it's effectiveness, which helps your defense, but I'm not sure that was his primary intent.

This is different than your defense of Acro, where your primary motivation clearly seemed to be diverting attention from Acro.

Unfortunately, it's hard to say much more about it, because Ivan ignored me when I asked him to explain his thoughts on you, which I forgot about when I was explaining my thoughts on him. Now that I remember it, I see that Ivan is starting to form a disturbing trend of ignoring questions (Beck's and mine).

i've noticed that, and with each of his posts i'm increasingly happy with where my vote is.

@SK i swear... if you're maf (again)... and you've been taking me for a ride (again)...

[Acronach]

not really looking for a response so go ahead.

[Acronach]

(4got there was another page and was responding to the last post on page 10. rereading)

[Acronach]

so basically, after this:

MOD- I personally think all hydras need to out who their heads are, it's bad enough to be playing with ore than one, keeping it a secret just makes it worse

Well, I personally would leave that up to the hydrae.

Speaking of hydrae, could you all PLEASE not mispost from the wrong account? >.<

and this:

reasons why I like Yank

It may be the Sam Adams talking, but what Beck said was really weird and anti-town. At the same time, the lynch almost seems too obvious, a jester perhaps?

i'm wondering if Ivan is even a hydra or if hes just using it as an excuse to votehop.

@Ivan, please claim all your heads

the best way to explain why this comment is so bad is to summarize grey's post

TRANSLATION:
'BECK IS WEIRD AND ANTITOWN BUT I KNOW HE'S NOT SCUM. MUST BE A THIRD PARTY???'

with just 2 votes on him, Yank makes this comment

And to clarify, Yes, I think there is scum on the bandwagon that's forming on me right now. Until I see an actual case against me, I'm just seeing opportunistic scum buddies here.

seems to be a bit flaily to me, 2 votes isn't a wagon at all and to declare that scum is on his 2 person wagon, seems kind of ridiculous IMO.

Yank decides he doesn't like Ivan enough to return the favor and votes him back,

Ice decides to vote Yank, making the tally 3 (greymarble votes on page 2) and right after that vote, yank follows up with

Sigh. Well, not everyone on my bandwagon is opportunistic scum. I at least hoped the townies would be rational, but no one is seeing the writing on the wall. Can we at least get some discussion in so you guys don't go into day 2 still not wanting to lynch IVP or sub?

I read this statement as, Ice is town, also who was the opportustic scum anyway? none of the votes for him were done so in an opportunistic manner and he mentions nobody seeing the writing on the wall, but reading his ISO, he hasn't really explained a good reason to remove the votes from him.

this comment

At this point I'm just a little frazzled emotion-wise that IVP Has managed to create a bandwagon as a scum on me and actually go somewhere with it. I don't even want to be lynched, but if that's what it takes to realize he's opportunistic scum, then we probably don't have much hope as town anyways.

To me really makes me think that Yank is probably newbish when it comes to being mafia OR has never encountered a bus, the first time my mafia partner bussed me, I reacted almost exactly the same way when I was bussed for the first time, because I wasn't expecting it nor had I ever experienced it before. For a bus to work properly, it can't be planned. It has to be an ambush, if Ivan had stayed on yank for the remainder of Day 1, I probably would not have even had to keep my eye on him, but the fact that Ivan hoops off Yank's wagon because the other head finds Arco scummier.

why does the other head find Arco scummier?

Bah. Well, there goes that idea.

unvote vote Acronach

Your posts so far have been devoid of content.

Not putting a vote out is almost always antitown, especially in early D1.

And if you're the type of self-righteous/thickheaded/airheaded prick who refuses to vote without "good evidence" out of some misplaced notion of caution or integrity, you have to make up for the lost content by pressuring people in other ways, such as with questions.

It's really not brain surgery, unless you're scum.

And even then, it's a fairly standard procedure.

Do something.

Ivan later follows up with this clarification

Remember that there are two of us. We have separate suspicions and gut reactions. Currently I am questioning Yank while the other head is questioning Acronach.

but since that clarification, Ivan has not once mentioned Yank and when i questioned Ivan about his earlier suspicons of Yank, he posts something un-related and hasn't posted anything since.


Ivan is definitly on my suspect list, I think the 2 heads talked in their QT and decided this bus has gone on long enough, which is why they switched their vote to Arco. He got voted by Ivan on page 6, for not providing content, when acro had not posted anything since the middle of page 2, Ivan's vote on Acro, just happened to be the 4th vote.

These are rhetorical, but if Ivan wants to answer it, feel free.

Why vote for somebody for their lack of content when they haven't even made a post since the 2nd page and is unaware their wagon has now grown to 3 people. Why do you leave a wagon(yank wagon) where you are making really really good points about based on actual scum hunting, and leave it to be the 4th vote on a wagon that makes no sense? (perfect example of opportunistic scum that yank was trying to point out earlier)


I am fine with an Ivan lynch really I am, but Yank is the most guilty person here, I think Ivan's other head realized this bus attempt was going wrong or he didn't agree with it, so they decided to shift focus to somebody else.

The lynch that will teach us the most in my opinion is Yank, given the fact that as of right now he has the most votes on him, I see no reason why we just don't go through with this lynch.

i'm wondering if Ivan is even a hydra, or if hes just using it as an excuse to votehop.

@Ivan please claim all your heads in your next post

[Acronach]

nvm, reviewed his post. hes a shitty hydra if you ask me though. i still want him to claim who all the heads are.

[Acronach]

4 hydras? wtf? lol

would be kinda funny though to see a 7 or 8 person hydra sometime XD

[Acronach]

vote ivan

owait, my votes already on him.

[Acronach]

my current reads

town
Beck - has been goodposting all game and bringing up some good points. he has earned my trust
Acronach - that's me :3

leaning town
Captain spoon - my impression, for lack of a better term, is noob town. i know he's not exactally new, but there's a saying i go by: a new player is someone who doesn't yet know how to play. a noob is someone who chooses to not know how to play. so essentially, it fits.
ICEninja - leaning town on him, but i don't have a serious read on him thus far. this is mostly a gutread.
Tommy - hard decision here between town and leaning town. he's been asking some good questions, but, he doesn't seem to be posting a lot. has been contributing though.

null
Greymarble - needs to start actually posting. @mod, thanks for prodding him.
rblinker123 - has been posting, but not frequently. i've been having a hard time getting a read on him.
SleepyKrew - basically i'm keeping him as null because yes, we've defended eachother, but, not really sure what i think of him. will be posting something about that once i finish up posting my reads.
ConfidAnon - not really sure where to place him. he's been lurkish and the only real case i remember him making was against me. he makes another post against me once every 4 pages or so. initially, i had a slight townread on him, but after consistant lurkiness, i'm having my doubts.

leaning scum
YankCane151 - has been lurking a lot, but i've had a light scumread on him for his early-game posts.
Da Koolzzy - actually leaning null on him but i figured i should put him here. he's been posting more than he's been reading the thread it feels like. idk, i just get a bad feeling whenever i read what he's posted so far.
subgenius - has been contributing a lot, but, most of what he's been saying is about the me/SK defense thing. he's been hanging on the subject too long, and it feels like he has an alterior motive for getting me lynched.

scum
Ivan the Pleasant - needs to stop vote-hopping, needs to stop voting without proper explaination, heads need to learn to communicate, at least one of the heads should be posting more than just simple stuff, and he needs to reply to beck's questions.

the SK defense thing

basically, what i was thinking at the time was why the hell didn't he just show you all himself? i've seen him last game, i know what he was thinking when he called me a VI, and he was failing at getting the point across. it was almost annoying to watch, so i did it for him. that said, my defense of him was not directly defending him as much as it was helping you see what his thought process was since i knew it and you didn't. it doesn't mean i think he's town, it doesn't mean we're scumbuddies, we were in a game together, and references to the other game came up. bad reads were getting developed because these references were misunderstood, so i tried to fix it.

[Acronach]

and with that, goodnight.

[Acronach]

Captain spoon - my impression, for lack of a better term, is noob town. i know he's not exactally new, but there's a saying i go by: a new player is someone who doesn't yet know how to play. a noob is someone who chooses to

not know

how to play. so essentially, it fits.

If I chose not to play what would the point in me playing be?

anyways, I know one of the GreyMarble heads and I've seen him around. Maybe he forgot about the game?

to answer your question, i bolded the section in your quote that you didn't notice

[Acronach]

Alright, it's been awhile since I've had a chance to catch up, so this might be a long one. I usually don't use spoilers, but I will here. Hopefully people will find them helpful and still read them.

Spoiler: Acro

kk, well any arguments you make about the VI thing are irrevelant. deal with it.

This conversation has disintegrated into a slap-fight. I've made my points, and I'll let others judge what I consider to be your inadequate responses for themselves.

you are truely an idiot. you seriously expect people to pay attention to those points when you didn't even read what you're talking about?

not completely useless. if im town and SK is maf, why would he defend me? if SK is town and im maf, why would i defend him? using this logic, it's extremely unlikely that we have opposing alignments. not impossable, but unlikely.

If SK is maf and you're town. SK benefits from defending you by possibly gaining a town ally or gaining some town cred if you're lynched and flip town. The same works in reverse.[/spoiler]

this is good logic at least.

Spoiler: Acro

@Ivan please claim all your heads in your next post

I'm really not understanding Acro's insistence that Ivan claim his heads. It's understandable to ask, and it's understandable to be annoyed when no answer is provided, but Acro seems to be interpreting this refusal to reveal heads as scummy, and I don't understand why. Ivan has done some questionable things in this game, but I'm not sure hiding his heads is one of them.

is there any town motivation for not claiming heads? scum motivation would be avoiding someone they've played games with before, but i don't see the town motivation. arch doesnt seem to have a problem with it but i'm interested in the other head as far as this is concerned.

Spoiler: Acro

bad reads were getting developed because these references were misunderstood, so i tried to fix it.

How do you know the scum reads on SK are bad? Again, whether or not he had valid evidence for saying you're a VI is irrelevant, what is relevant is that he went out of his way to provide an excuse for your non-voting. The case would be the same whether he excused your non votes based on a meta history non-voting, or a defense of non-voting in general (which he did), or attacked the one who was trying to pressure you based on non-voting (which he did). The VI issue is irrelevant to the reason anybody finds SK scummy. So, how do you know the read on SK is bad, considering that the only unique insight you have into the case is a minor and largely irrelevant detail?

i don't know that the read itself is bad, but i do know that the evedence used to produce the read was bad, which would make the read itself more likely to be bad.

Mostly I simply dislike that this is coming up as an issue at all. Get your acts straight. If you two can't form coherent stances together, maybe you should sign your posts with 'Head A' and 'Head B' so that we can at least keep the flow of opinions straight.

+1000000000000

And, don't purposely post as your RL head, the fact you admitted you didn't log on as Ivan on purpose is just shameful.

this so hard

[Acronach]

you seriously expect people to pay attention to those points when you didn't even read what you're talking about?

Yes, and I've explained why several times.

ok, where?

[Acronach]

ok, where?

Really?
Post 229

Regardless, I'm not all that interested in whether or not Sleepy had a valid reason for calling Acro a VI. I'm interested in why he felt it was necessary to excuse Arco's refusal to vote in the first place.

you're not interested and still making arguments using it as a base?

Post 235

I didn't read the link, because it's irrelevant to my suspicions of him or you. I don't care why SK thinks you're a VI. I care why he went out of his way to defend you, and I care why you seem to be going out of your way to return the favor.

it's irrevalant but you're still weaving arguments around it?

Post 237

I'm really not interested in whether he is or isn't a VI. Judging purely on this game, I'd say he's not, but it's irrelevant. The important thing is the mutual defense between Acro and SK, which I still find quite suspicious.

and a big part of the mutual defense is the VI thing. why ignore it?

Post 330

The case would be the same whether he excused your non votes based on a meta history non-voting, or a defense of non-voting in general (which he did), or attacked the one who was trying to pressure you based on non-voting (which he did). The VI issue is irrelevant to the reason anybody finds SK scummy.

your question is why he called me a VI. i told you and you ignored it. if you ask a question that has to do with the VI thing and then say the V thing is irrevelant, it just doesn't work.

FYI, you could have found all but one of these explanations by searching my ISO for "irrelevant"

irrelevant (ɪˈrɛləvənt)

— adj
not relating or pertinent to the matter at hand; not important

ok, now you're just being a dick

That is what your behavior in the previous game with SK is to my case against SK in this game. Irrelevant.

how do you know? you've never even read the previous game.

As I've said multiple times. It doesn't matter to me the least bit why SK thinks you're a VI and whether he is right or wrong in his assessment. It matters why he felt compelled to lessen the pressure on you. Your behavior in a previous game does not matter to my case at all, therefor I have not spent any of my limited time reading that previous game.

he called me VI to lessen the pressure on me
he lessened the pressure on me by calling me VI

Spoiler: wanna know something?

it's the same damn thing!!!

so why do you just assume it's irrelevant? and i'd like an answer that isn't "i don't care" or anything similar to that.

sorry for anyone who has questions ect. for me. i'll try to get around to them, but this post was just annoying me too much for me not to dissect it.

pedit:

I'm going to do a full reread.

this is actually sounding like a good idea. i think i might do that too if i find the time.

[Acronach]

Not bothering to log in as Ivan for this one.

This is NOT acceptable in my game. A warning has been PMed to this hydra.

[Acronach]

so yank... feel like claiming before i push it to L-1 or should we just proceed with the lynch and wait for mod to tell us?

[Acronach]

ivan goes 2morro btw, i dont care what anyone says

[Acronach]

I'll claim at L-1.

okay

unvote, vote yank

it's now L-1

[Acronach]

and just like that you've made 1 of your mason/maf partners dead fucking obvious. lovely. let's just hope that if you are town maf are complete retards and don't notice the slip...

in any case, i'd like to see an Ivan lynch tomorrow depending on the N1 outcome

[Acronach]

if someone could please hammer, i'm off to bed.

[Acronach]

>people believing the mason claim (facepalm)
>SK replacing out (double facepalm)

well, looks like we're not lynching yank for some reason even though if he is maf in stead of mason we just let the most obvious fucking maf get away with being scummy as hell.

unvote vote ivan

was voting ivan before and i like this wagon more than any other ATM except yank, which apparantly isnt happening -.-

[Acronach]

V;LA for the next few days. i probably won't be back until after the deadline :/ Hoping for the best today. GL town.