Mini Normal 1187: Game Over

[Scumhunter]

Vote: DemonHybrid

To force his grudge vote on me to be a scummzy omgus.

[Scumhunter]

Wow. Smh.

Also,

Unvote, Vote: jilynne1991

. My vote seems to be decaying on hiplop and jilynne is still very likely scum. Heliman and Barry Allen have it right on.

Very likely scum might be overstating it a bit. I have nothing wrong with pressure votes as they can be a good thing, but meh nothing jilynne has done sets off my scumdar. We reall still are in RVS...
Also, I'm slightly disappointed that you talked a big talk and didn't even grudge vote me

[Scumhunter]

Generally, the only people that start the game looking for third party roles are scum themselves.

Haha, you know this one from experience, eh. XD

DH + someone else (I believe bob) asked me why my vote was still on DH and apparently that implies I think he's mafia??? No, not in the slightest. I'd unvote seeing as I think he's town but I highly resent people telling me what to do with my vote so early on. I will get out of RVS when I feel like it. I literally despise the beginning of games. It just breeds idiotic, illogical arguments where people are too serious and push cases based on bad logic/little to no evidence. If it were up to me I wouldn't post til page 10 every game. Meh, I suppose someone has to spur on discussion, but I just end up raging most of the time if I try to get involved early.

tldr, I'm going to keep lurking.

[Scumhunter]

Ughh, god damn. You do realize that in doing so you're depraving all of us of information and you're not doing ANYTHING at all to help the town, right?

I promise to be one of the most active players in the game once things get interesting. I will do plenty to help us lynch right and will take all lynches seriously.

unvote

Fine. I'll be done with RVS. Next vote will be an actual suspicion or have a purpose at least. Once I start getting involved in the game I often times end up vote-hopping quite a bit. It's not a scumtell from me though.

[Scumhunter]

Wasn't saying it was nintendo.

[Scumhunter]

Hi archae, yea I know I need to start participating now. I will read and catch up ASAP + reply to your concerns. Expect something later this evening at some point.

[Scumhunter]

post incoming t-minus 1 hour?

[Scumhunter]

First, I apologize for not posting sooner. It has been 2-3 days since I've thought to myself hell, looks like this game has really picked up, time for me to jump in. Up until a couple months ago, I played online poker for a living. It was recently banned here in the U.S. so the gov't essentially laid me off -______-. So yea, I just started a new job recently. What better place than the corporate world to use my talent at math and being good at lying to and reading people!!! Downside, I am office bitch for the foreseeable future and that I have far less interweb leisure time than I am used to. I woke up an hour early just to post in this game becuase I was too tired last night, but rest assuerd I am committed to this game and finding the scum. I generally am against the concept of V/LA because I think it is a weak excuse scum can use to get out of a lynch towards the deadline, but if I remain super busy I may opt to do something like that. Anyways, this game has my attention and now that I'm caught up it should be easier to stay involved even if for just 10 min spurts here and there.

K. So to respond to the only suspicion on me other than my lurking:

Fine. I'll be done with RVS. Next vote will be an actual suspicion or have a purpose at least.

Once I start getting involved in the game I often times end up vote-hopping quite a bit. It's not a scumtell from me though.

Loudly announcing what you are going to do before you do it is much more characteristic of a mafia mindset than a town one. Town is secure in the sincerity of their actions, and for the most part just do things. It is a very common tendency in scum players to reflexively start over-explaining themselves; it gives them an armored vehicle of logic with which they can justify their lies.

To my eyes, the italicized section above is really saying:

"Let me tell you exactly what my play will look like, so that when I start actually posting I can defend myself against anything you might say about me. If you accuse me of vote hopping I can say 'LOOK! I already said I might vote hop, and that it's a town tell for me.'"

This is filled with way too much nervous energy for town. It's also CRAZY premature for him to be defending himself against something that not only has he not been attacked for, but that he hasn't even done yet.

We need to learn more about this guy.

I really don't believe in "over-explaining" oneself. Towns often fail because of a lack to communicate clearly even when they think they are being clear with their intentions. Just look at yourself and Heliman this game for example.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3037266

This was a recently town finished game of mine where my very first post was "I'm looking forward to a town win." I was quickly wagoned to L-1 for that lulz. I have the tendency to be repetitive and obvious in my pov as town. I think that appearing town is actually a more important job for town than hunting scum. The universe disagrees with me. But it is a strong opinion of mine.


As for reads:

1. hiplop: Leaning town. Your posts seem sincere to me. I often share your pov that seriousness in RVS annoys the piss out of me, but really that could come from scum not wanting to begin the uphill battle of defending themselves and faking scumhunting all game.

2. Pine: Null. The fosing people based on typos, etc. is weak scumhunting, but early on its an ok start. Will need to see more when he's back from semi-V/LA to get a better read.

3. Deuxieme Octopus: I'd probably say town, but 2 total posts is a small sample size for any sort of read. I liked your point on Pine. Please post more, god I feel like such a hypocrite saying that. I felt Pine's posts were a little "vacuous" as you said and that they could, key word could be insincere.

4. archaebob: Incredibly obv town. Lmfao, are/were people voting him? He has fosed just about everyone in the game. I suppose it's possible that he is a very good scum player trying to take charge from the beginning of the game...but I think it would be hard to fake the legitimacy of the scumhunting he is trying to do. I wouldn't call him overzealous town either has all his pressuring has been getting at something.

5. jilynne1991: Null. There is no chance you are 13 years old nor a girl. If I were a betting man (which I am), I would wager a significant amount of money that you are both male and over the age of 18. Your vocabulary and attitude are not coming from a 13 year old girl. Plus what 13 year old has "1991" in their user name. It's incredibly obvious to me that your IRL "identity" is faked, I'd assume for game-related advantages of being perceived as a newb. I have no idea what that means about your alignment, I'm just saying your "Newb 13 year old girl tactic" isn't going to work on me this game.

6. Barry Allen: Lean Scum. I don't like the way you took your vote off of jilynne. "Obviously pressuring her isn't going to get us anywhere." What the hell is that? You hadn't REALLY pressured her whatsoever. All you really did was explain why you voted her and make 1 post that could be vaguely described as pressuring jilynne. The point of pressure is pressuring until you actually get something from it not giving up after a weak attempt. Also, you noticed early on about jilynne "I don't see a defense, we are at L-2.." I read your whole attitude as being lynch-focused so far as opposed to scumhunting focused.

7. nintendoaddict1: Town. You really really are barking up the wrong tree though suspecting archaebob and hiplop. How anyone reads bob as scum is beyond me. I also don't think hiplop is all that scummy either. There are better people to go after Barry Allen,

8. Heliman: Town. Jesus, townies really need to stop arguing with archaebob. Heliman, what it comes down to is you disagree with the way that bob pressures people and votes people. He has done the most to help town, so your vote is really really poor tbh. It is ok to have double standards and crap cases in the beginning because it elicits reactions. The reactions are so important. You get reactions from the player being voted, the way other players interact with that player and with the wagon itself. It is vital information even if the cases and logic are shit. Logic is just one part of the game good sir. Votes aren't always with the intent to lynch..

9. ace5993: Lean Scum. I don't really understand your fos/unfos of Barry. I don't see anything in Barry's play to warrant such a change in opinion. Your fos on bob screams to me that you are scum scared of his influence this game. You said at the beginning of the day "We don't need a wagon every single time someone does something even the slightest bit scummy.
" and now you just said "We wasted 10 pages on Jil, hopefully that won't happen with these wagons but having the wagons IS NECESSARY." Such a contrast in your opinions on the need for wagons/pressuring people makes me go O.o. It would help me if you explained exactly which "quirks" in Barry's playing style changed your opinion on him.: I

10. DemonHybrid: Town. I like how you called bob obv town, I was literally going down the list waiting for someone to point that out. I agree that Jil has contributed squat, but I'd much rather go after Barry/ace today.

11. Spadille: Null. No posts yet.

13. Giitah: Gut scum. I don't have anything condemning on you. I felt like your "Ugh." reaction to me saying I was goign to lurk to page 10 and that you asking deuxieme not to lurk were faked attempts to look town. Town are usually more annoyed by my non-helpful attitude early on. Oh, and also, I don't really know where you stand in relation to who you think is scum or who you would prefer to vote at this point...?

Town reads (strongest to weakest): archaebob, DH, nintendoaddict1, Heliman, hiplop, deuxieme octopus
Null reads: Pine, jilynne1991, Spadille
Scum reads (strongest to weakest): ace5993, BarryAllen, Giitah

vote ace5993

[Scumhunter]

Nintendo, please think about why you want to vote me. Is it solely because I have been lurking? Does that make me scum? Normally lurking is actually somewhat of a scumtell from me, but if you check my other games on here I have been similarly inactive the last few days. Ignoring my lurking up until this point...why would you want to vote me?

[Scumhunter]

The paranoid part of me thinks there is a chance (<10%) he's playing a very strong scum game, but I still don't see how anyone could vote him based on his behavior (which is very protown). Kapiche?

Gotcha on voting me to make sure I posted. I interpreted "my vote may stay even if he posts" as you having a reason to suspect me other than lurking. I guess what you were trying to say is if my post was scummy, you'd want to still vote me.

Anyways, what do you think of ace and Barry?

[Scumhunter]

@Barry

I liked Deux's questioning/vote on Pine because I felt the same way he does with regards to Pine's posts "missing something" up until that point. I generally give town credit to people who state the same suspicions/pov as me independently of me. Yes, I know it makes me susceptible to buddying, but I think sincerely noticing something valid about the tone of another player's posts and commenting on them (as Deux did) is a town tell in my book.

As for why I still have Pine as null, I have played in two games with him and I have read him wrong both games initially. I wanted to let other people deal with him, plus he's semi-V/LA and I think there are better suspects. I don't feel comfortable having him in "town" or "scum" category at this point which is why he is null.

Interesting point with regards to hiplop. It is possible I am wrong about him. He and deux were my weakest town reads. What scum motivation do you think he would have for faking typos? I don't really see that as alignment revealing. I suppose he could be scum thinking it could make him look town to typo with some convoluted logic? The code is pretty easy, so yea, strange, I'll admit. It's possible he is figuring out how to vote better as the game goes on though.

[Scumhunter]

Hi DH.

What are your opinions on ace/hiplop/Barry?

[Scumhunter]

Well then, all 3 I ask about are right smack dab in the middle of your list. As scum you'd probably fake a better answer than that XD.

As for my reads list. I want to change it a little. I'm going to back off both my Barry scum read and my hiplop town read a bit,

[Scumhunter]

Bolding everything defeats the purpose of bolding for emphasis >.>

[Scumhunter]

I agree that spadille and Deux need to post. I don't think Deux is scum though so I'm not going to vote him with ya. Agree with your theory about the nature of the game. /work time. I'll check in in the afternoon.

[Scumhunter]

I get what you are trying to do bob, but something about voting someone who I think is town when I have some real suspicions just strikes me as wrong XD

I'll go about what you are getting at in a different way ...

@mod, can we get a prod on Deux?

[Scumhunter]

Sorry, from the 2 posts deux has made I think he is town. I refuse to vote someone I think is town.
Why can't an ace lynch happen? We have a shit ton of time til deadline. I'm voting who I think is mafia.

[Scumhunter]

unvote

Ok ace, I'll buy what you are selling for now.

I'm sorry about your gut on me bob, you ought to get that checked.

[Scumhunter]

DH is town, we are not voting him. I am 95% sure that DH-scum would have loved to tunnel a policy vote on me today for our disagreements from last game.

I want to see your case on him Bob. Also, yea Pine is V/LA, we don't want to vig him or even consider voting him til he gets back and can contribute. That is reckless play.

I have to agree with DH with regards to jilynne. If the point of voting someone for pressure is to actually elicit a response you don't just GIVE UP when they aren't responding. You continue to pressure them until they either respond or lynched as bad town/scum.

I'm more than willing to vote jilynne if she doesn't want to contribute.

vote jilynne1991

[Scumhunter]

C'mon foilist. I was trying to stop ppl from voting ur slot. Not even a town read on me for that. I am disappoint.

As for your case on nintendo, interesting. I will have to think about it more. I may have prematurely wrote nintendo off as town because I remembered a game where I thought he was super scummy day 1, we ended up lynching him and he flipped town. Bad logic on my part I'll admit.

I found his interactions with me regarding his vote on me/unvote to be a bit strange at the time, but I was in the mindset he was town at that time so I didn't really consider his motivation.

I think your case on him is pretty good actually and I want to see how he responds. I no longer want to lynch Ace or Barry today.

My current preferred lynches would probably be jilynne/nintendo (potentially).

I want to back off my strong town read on bob because I think it is a good point that his vote wandering as actually been a bit aimless and unfruitful as of yet.

[Scumhunter]

At what point are our votes not about the "reaction" we get and more about our votes being with the intent to lynch?

If a player is not contributing to the game we should be willing to lynch them particularly d1 since it either menas

a)they are lurkering scum
b)losing a townie unwilling to help isn't the end of the world on d1

[Scumhunter]

nintendo, what foilist is getting at was the tone in your posts. Your agenda doesn't seem like that of a paranoid townie, but rather of a scheming mafia whose sole agenda is to make themselves look good and spread suspicion on townies.

Your last post was defensive but you really didn't help alleviate any of the concerns.

What you can do if you are town to help let us know that is to start sharing more of your reads.

If you suspect DH, can you explain why? Why didn't you explain it earlier if you suspected him?

[Scumhunter]

I don't mean to be accusatory there nintendo, but yea can you explain your reads on everyone with your thought process behind them. thanks

[Scumhunter]

ace, good point, I forgot jilynne was on V/LA. I don't believe she is being replaced but ya.

The two wagons I don't want to support at this time are DH (for sure) and archaebob (mostly)

V/LA really ruins the continuity of a game -___-

But I suppose you are right that was hypocritical. I didn't notice jilynne was V/LA. I am skeptical that she will ever produce content where as Pine I'm sure will at least be active once he's back. For the record, I'm not diametrically opposed to the idea of a Pine lynch but I want to wait for him to come back from V/LA to defend himself.

@Everyone voting DH, can you unvote please? He is town, thanks.

unvote

[Scumhunter]

unvote, vote nintendoaddict1

[Scumhunter]

Okay, I've finally finished my analysis. Before I say anything I'd like to question Scumhunter.
What makes you so certain DH is town? Do you think there is a merit to defending him so much? If you think DH isn't scum, why don't you make a logical and coherent argument against the attack of the supporters rather than telling people 'HEY GUYS STOP TRYING TO KILL HIM!'? I'm interested in what you have to say on him.

Gut. He's not 100% town but he is one of the worst possible lynches today. Of course there is merit to defending someone I think is town. Do you disagree?

My argument is based on his attitude, his general helpfulness, and my strong belief he would have pushed on me all of d1 if he were scum.

[Scumhunter]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

you can't just say this and make it true.

[Scumhunter]

EBWOP: Scumhunter could you link to the game you mentioned in your #18? The one that makes DH want to policy lynch you.

DH wall incoming later tonight.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17488

I was messing around with a fake claim to semi-troll. I knew the mod from off-site and he was kind of encouraging my behaviour out of thread so I had no idea I would get modkilled. DH raged, etc. Don't want to revisit that game's specifics. But DH even said in the signup thread he was going to rage policy vote me all of d1 this game and then decided against it for some reason. I think him (scum) + me (town) would have loved to just tunnel the crap out of me and have it be to his win condition as well...This entire point is semi-irrelevant because I don't know enough about his mindset to know how he would react once the game started, I was just surprised is all.

Can someone please explain the case on DH. I have a hard time readnig walls of text. I do better with a synopsis of ~3-5 of the best bulletpoint reasons on why someone is scum.

[Scumhunter]

again, you have no case at all scumhunter. If you want to defend your buddy, at least provide some evidence

you can't just say this and make it true.

He did and he can. You have a fluff argument based on an emotional appeal. Need I say more?

I'm stating my goddamn opinion if you don't agree with me, then don't. Emotional appeals are not a scumtell. I say this every game and no one listens. EMOTIONS ARE PART OF THE GAME. The only reason people go to the default "aTe is a scumtell" is because they are too shit to actually read people and make complicated, calculated decisions. I say this every game no one ever listens. It's much easier to play by a rote system and blame the people you misread once they flip town by saying "they were scummy" not my fault. I mean jesus christ, its really sad tbh.

[Scumhunter]

Ok, if someone can explain the case on DH concisely then I'd understand what I'm having to back up in the first place.

[Scumhunter]

Honestly, I think you should out your partner DH. If you get night killed, that person is then clear at least. Plus, hard claiming a partner makes it more difficult on you in the cases that you are scum.

[Scumhunter]

Pine, can you post your reads?

[Scumhunter]

id say that if he doesnt post it by tomorrow at noon, we lynch him

I'd agree. Pine your flaking out at the end of the day here is reminding me quite a bit of Mini 1156: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17230, where you stall and stalled on posting a case and then flipped scum d1. I understand you were V/LA and life > mafia (for the most part anyways ). Anyhoo, I'm going to be

V/LA from 6/24-6/26

(If anyone cares, I'm road tripping to Milwaukee to watch some baseball with some friends) so...I'd like to decide who I'm voting for this evening. Pine, If you haven't posted something worthwhile by this evening I will be voting you. So yeap, we are getting close to deadline here. I realize its a bit inconvenient that I'm out of town here near deadline, but such is life.

[Scumhunter]

Vote: Pine

Yes. I realize this is L-1. The previous game I played in with Pine he flaked out like this as scum d1 and never got his magical post up that was set to appear any minute. I'm gone til Sunday night. Best of luck my fellow townies on this lynch or if it ends up changing.

[Scumhunter]

@ Scumhunter - since you noted your upcoming road trip, not related to the game.
I used to live near Milwaukee and loved going to Miller Park. Not a bad seat in the house, and one of the few ballparks where you can actually afford to go and see a game. Have a brat for me!

Never been before this weekend so pretty pumped. I'm a big Twins fan but actually I'm a Brewers season ticket holder precisely because tickets are so cheap and that if the Brewers end up making it to the world series I stand to make quite a profit selling the World Series tickets I'd get. XD.

[Scumhunter]

It's quite possible there were 2 scum wagon on the Pine wagon and that nintendo is still scum.

It's also possible that scum-nintendo could make this claim if there are 0/1 scum on the wagon.

I'm not sure what to make of Barry's report and I'm considering whether it might be best or not for him to out his report or not. There is no guarantee that the visiting person is a doctor. They could just as easily be a mafia rolecop or something else. I'm leaning towards Barry out his reporting and the person who visited at least confirming it and likely claiming.

Archaebob, is there a reason you think I'm scum other than that I had been on V/LA? I still need to catch up and process all the stuff that is going on here.

Hiplop assuming that vig shot DH and that mafia's kill didn't go through is one hell of an assumption. I'm wondering if Barry tracked "doc/mafia killer". I can see scum-hiplop saying something like that at the beginning of the day to try and figure out DH died if his mafia partners didn't target him.

Anyways, priority #1 for me is to read into nintendo more to see if I should trust him.

Priority #2 is to try and decide if Barry should out his full report. My vote is 100% yes on that at this point.

[Scumhunter]

1) You were way too stubborn and opinionated yesterday to be this nervous and weaksauce today. Just like, in general.

2) I don't buy your uber-evenhanded reaction to nintendo's claim. You give us a lot of plausible sounding hypotheticals and no opinions.

3) Nice foreshadowing of a future hiplop vote there. If you ever do decide later on that he's your best bet for a mislynch, you'll be SUPER PREPARED. You know why? Cause you already showed the town that you were starting to suspect him back in post 735!! *applause*

4) On Barry Allen outing his report: are you "leaning", or are you "100% yes"? Make up your mind. If you are "100% yes" on Barry Allen outing his report, there is no reason for you to qualify that with an "at this point." What does that even mean? Like, as opposed to future points? That would seem to defeat the purpose of being 100% yes. It's transparent to anyone who has played scum before what you are doing with this overcautious mixture of awkward assertiveness and shifty flip flopping.

1. I was V/LA this past weekend and need some time to really think about what has happened. I will have strong opinions once I catch up. I don't want to throw around any accusations til I get a chance to really review the last 5 pages or so closer, but my inital reads are I believe Barry is town, hiplop's initial comment at the beginning of d2 confused me.

2. My evenhandedness is because I'm not sure if I believe it or not. I do need to read nintendo more. Initially I believe it although it really would be a very beneficial fake claim for scum.

3. Yes I will likely be voting hiplop. Do you not read his assumption as "wtf?" I can't imagine thinkign that from town perspective and why the hell would a vig shoot a mason claim.

4. I feel very strongly that Barry should out his report. Close to 95% sure he should unless someone can convince me otherwise. Let's look at the scenarios:
-Barry is town, his report is on scum rolecop or other visiting role. Scum is forced to fake claim. If they are lynched later in the game and flip scum roleblocker or scum role cop, that makes the person they visited clear.
-Barry is scum tracker, his report is fake and on a scum buddy. Him outing report harms town in no way really since that makes him a lying scumwad anyways
-Barry is scum tracker, and his report is on town powerrole. Barry knows a town powerrole already and this doesn't hurt us
-Barry is town and his report is on town power role. I guess this might hurt us if he is outing specifically doc in a game with no mafia roleblocker.

I'm actually an advocate of a mass claim. I think mass claiming is one of the most underutilized town weapons in the game. We have a lot of pr claims. Its quite possible at least one of them is fake. Although with 2 potential anti-town killing roles, outing clears this early could be dangerous, meh.

[Scumhunter]

I guess this might hurt us if he is outing specifically doc in a game with no mafia roleblocker.

Whoops, how would you know if there is a mafia RB or not?

I don't. These were hypotheticals. What I meant to say is the only way outing a doc would be "very bad" was if there is a mafia roleblocker that could block the doc and kill Barry. If we out the "doc" we could also have the other mason claim and we could potentially have a bunch of clears. I don't know. With 2 killing factions this could go very wrong. Barry, what do you think about outing your report or not?

[Scumhunter]

foilist, can you explain what a friendly neighbor does? I assume it confirms you as town to bob? Does it confirm bob as town to you?

[Scumhunter]

Post 788

– You once again claim I haven’t responded to your arguments and state that I’m trying to gradually move to a vote on you. You say that I’m treating it as a given that I’m town and am using AtE on you. You also claim I am using “fabricated outrage” on you. You also flatly defend hiplop as town. You add some pejorative content directed at me, then ask my opinion on some specific players with an AtE, stating that “If you are truly town, you have no reason not to do this.” You end with one last AtE claiming that “your mind is already racing about how to respond to this”.

OK, Bob, now you’re getting paranoid. If I wanted to vote you I would already have done so. You turned around 180 degrees on massclaiming when Ace voted you, and then you start acting paranoid because I called you out for not helping the town with your loose cannon approach. That’s your problem, not mine. As for your question at the end of your post, I’ve already stated that I think 2/3 scum can be found in: Giitah, Scumhunter and Heliman. Frankly, that’s more than the idea of 2 scum being claimed by Nintendo as being on the Pine vote. I’ve had bad vibes on each during D1 and haven’t seen much since to take my worries off them. Ace appears town to me, Foil leans town, and I don’t have a read on Valern (although Valern did lead that D1 wagon on me).
Let’s be real here – I’m not outraged, just highly irritated at your posting style. I’m amazed that you consider yourself logical, given that you really only have one argument (OK, two). Your arguments are one, that you don’t believe a balanced round would have so many PRs, and two “Barry is a poopy face”. Witness your next post:

Barry, why is this the first I'm hearing about "bad vibes" you are having about me on D1. I remember briefly having an fos on you d1, you responded cordially, but in no way did it seem to me that you were suspicious of me at all. So...whats up with that?

[Scumhunter]

I have a couple questions about role mechanics that could influence our decisions today.

-Is there anyway that our friendly neighbor could be a not so friendly neighbor apart from being partners with bob?
-Does the friendly neighbor visit each night to create a new QT for the next day? Do QTs from previous visits only last 1 day phase?
-Nintendo, your sensor ability works on the leading wagon each day correct? If correct, perhaps we should coordinate who actually "votes" for the lynch we all decide on based on who it would be most useful to try and confirm with your sensor ability.

It is a fairly pressing issue to determine whether we believe nintendo or not. His role is quite powerful if real and pretty darn important.

A couple general observations so far:
-I don't like how people are trying to say "No way can we have this many power roles." I don't believe in absolutes like that. Actually 2 Masons (confirmed), Sensor, Tracker, Friendly Neighbor, Town RB (confirmed) would be quite a powerful role set for town, but I find most of the setups on here grossly town sided so it wouldn't completely surprise me. I think Barry Allen is most likely to be fake and my vote would be there if I had to vote right now. I'd like my questions about role mechanics answered by the players who have then and for Barry to explain himself particularly about why he suspects me.

-archaebob isn't nearly as "obv town" as people are saying. Posting the most doesn't = most town. I have found a lot of bob's posts to be actually pretty shallow and superficial. Is that indicative of scum? I'm not sure, he could be just very hyperactive town noticing everything. Not saying I suspect him really, but stating absolutes like "bob is obv town" is just not smart, and I definitely don't think he warrants that type of clearness at this stage.

[Scumhunter]

For the record, at the moment I believe all of the claimed PRs with the exception of Barry. Barry, if you are town, speak to me buddy, I'm willing to listen and I ain't scum.

[Scumhunter]

Whoa, just whoa.

Foilist, are the things bob is saying about your QT true?

[Scumhunter]

Please, lets not lynch til foilist has a chance to confirm/deny the accusations bob is bringing against him here. It is imperative that he is given a chance to explicitly give his version of events. Foilist, did you tell bob that ace is in fact a mason? Yes/no?

At this point, I'd say DH's REAL mason partner needs to claim. This is getting pretty damn convoluted and confusing here.

[Scumhunter]

Alright then.

vote: foilist13

Ace, last chance to say you are actually a mason here.

[Scumhunter]

@Barry, your reasoning about your track targets makes sense to me although that town thought process could easily be faked. I appreciate the explanation though.

So now that it is practically confirmed foilist is scum (unless both bob + ace are scum), that leaves our powerset as:

Town role blocker (confirmed), 2 masons (confirmed), Tracker (unconfirmed), Sensor (Unconfirmed), Any other unclaimed power roles??

I think that is a reasonable power set.

[Scumhunter]

I don't think it was hiplop, but I'm not too concerned even if it was.

[Scumhunter]

I'm here hiplop. I'm voting the confirmed scum, (aka foilist). Mind doing the same?

[Scumhunter]

Can we hammer the scum and head to night phase? On the rare chance foilist is town, that confirms both ace + bob for scum. zzz.

[Scumhunter]

wtf on the hammer. I still have to type up archaebob but I'll post everything else I have so far just in case it closes.

Don't you like lynching scum?

foilist13, the scum neighborizer, was lynched d2, etc.

[Scumhunter]

I don't think this makes ace scum necessarily...

[Scumhunter]

so if nintendo is telling the truth...

xvart is confirmed scum and the last mafia is either BA or ace (or me)

I have no idea why scum would kill bob over such a strong pr like sensor. /facepalm if nintendo is real.

vote: xvart

[Scumhunter]

quick lynch time?

[Scumhunter]

@nintendo, bob is dead. it could be BA though I doubt it.

[Scumhunter]

We almost certainly have auto win here though I think as long as nintendo is real. Someone hammer.

[Scumhunter]

Um yeah, not buying this. There's no way in hell nintendo's telling the truth. The role is so blatantly overpowered it's a joke. He has 1 scum "found" and cleared 5 people. On D3. No way. And scum not NK'ing nintendo because there's supposedly a DOCTOR?!? Not possible.

Vote: nintendoaddict1

trying to avoid auto win?

worst case scenario is we lynch nintendo tomorrow and then there is just one scum left.

[Scumhunter]

I doubt theres a 4 man mafia...

This. Can someone hammer already.

[Scumhunter]

xvart, I'm interested in a claim from you, I doubt it will change my mind though.

[Scumhunter]

xvart, i can't imagine a universe in which you are not lynched today. If you are town and have some useful information/claim to give now before you are hammered please do so. Anyone who isn't voting, feel free to hammer xvart.

[Scumhunter]

xvart, I apologize if you are town. I agree that a sensor is very powerful and it doesn't make much sense that he lived. However, Bob was pretty much 100% confirmed town though and people suspected nintendo yesterday so I think it is possible that you-scum didn't fully consider the consequences of letting the sensor live for another day. If you are town, I apologize.

I suppose technically lynching nintendo (and him flipping town) would confirm you scum and vice-versa so meh. It might actually be safer to lynch nintendo, as the worst case scenario for us here is nintendo-scum and we ML you today...

[Scumhunter]

Barry, I was actually just about to unvote. I didn't realize he was hammered until after I had made that post. I do find it suspect that you didn't die Barry. I suppose nintendo was the scum sending in the kill or what not so ok...

[Scumhunter]

vote: nintendo

Question at those more experienced than I on here: How likely is it for there to be 4 scum in a mini normal?

[Scumhunter]

nintendo oh well lol. I'm a little butthurt that I didn't get to at least officially vote you after yesterday. You presented your report well and with the right tempo/pace/amount of pushing to secure the ML even though your role was so powerful that it didn't make sense not dying.

I think Barry is probably legit unless we have another town PR that hasn't claimed. Otherwise we would just have 2 masons + roleblocker?

Barry feel free to track me tonight if you doubt me although if you are real I'm sure you will die =/

[Scumhunter]

I think foilist saying ace is a mason partner with him was a gutsy play regardless of ace's alignment. It's one hell of a gambit to fake claim mason to bob but also to say that a townie is a 3rd mason with you would be serious wtf. I would think that the implication of a 3rd mason is something that most mafia would realize would come out in the wash eventually and that ace saying he was lying (like ace-town inevitably would and did) would ultimately confirm him as scum. I think it actually incriminates ace a bit, but to be honest its a massive wifom at this point and ace's wtf reaction to the whole scenario seemed fairly sincere.

[Scumhunter]

Ace yesterday LOOKS townie by wanting to lynch nintendo however
a) bussing is possible here really if Barry is the lone pr left. Ace could get away with bussing nintendo and still having some nice and tidy night kills lined up for him (barry/heli) and still be able to justify being alive because of foil's claim
b) there were plenty of townies myself included strongly pushing for the lynch on xvart so that taking an opposition stance wasn't all that risky in terms of nintendo actually being lynched.
c) if I were in ace-scum's shoes with 2 night kills lined up (assuming BA is real which I think he is) I would have bussed the hell out of nintendo probably.

[Scumhunter]

Ok...I see Barry had a no visit on hiplop night 3.

Given that foilist flipped mafia neighborizer and that nintendo flipped goon, I think hiplop is very likely clear (he no visited n3). The fact that scum killed Heliman instead of Barry N3 makes me think Heliman was likely role copped earlier (otherwise why wouldn't mafia kill the claimed tracker? Furthermore why kill Heliman?) Unless hiplop specifically chose to not role cop or in the odd scenario we have 4 weak scum roles (and possibly additional town power role(s)?)

I think it is much more likely we have 3 scum and that hiplop is like 85-90% clear here. Either way I think we might as well mass claim. I'm a VT.
I need to reread ace/Giitah/valern...pending the result of the mass claim. My initial gut fos is on valern, but im due for a solid readthrough.

[Scumhunter]

giitah, you can claim next (or anyone else really doesnt matter really imo)

[Scumhunter]

Does anybody have any idea what Foil's gambit was supposed to be? I'm interested in some theories now.

Let's look at some positives and negatives for naming either a scum partner or a townie as the fictional "mason" partner

Scum partner +'s
-Make sure bob helps push the lynch on d2 away from not just 1 mafia but 2.
-Town may not even auto lynch the "partner" after foil flips (wifom)

Scum partner -'s
-Will draw attention to potential partnering between the 2 to bob's eyes (and others later on potentially)
-Town will look very skeptically on the actions of the fake "mason" partner for the rest of the game.
-Since the gambit requires bob to think foil is town in the first place, why drag another scum into it?? (wifom)

Town partner +'s
-Even if caught, could help ensure a ML later in the game.
-Town may auto-lynch his claimed "partner" (wifom)
-At the very least, town will spend time on said "partner" perhaps letting real scum fly under the radar.

Town partner -'s
Can't think of any...

[Scumhunter]

bob is probably rolling over in his grave if ace is scum and we let him off the hook here. However, giitah, I agree with your interpretation and I actually think it makes ace one of the people I probably

wouldn't

want to lynch today.

I'm getting town vibes off everyone else so...

vote: Valern

[Scumhunter]

Just reread ace, pretty damn sure he is town.

[Scumhunter]

just reread hiplop. I read his efforts as sincere and townie. I don't think he's scum either and im pretty sure of it but slightly less sure than of on my town read on ace.

valern, sheeping bob's case is no good. think for yourself if you are town. reread ace. nothing he has done is inherently scummy, if anything quite the opposite.

townies fail all the time and I think that is the case with bob's read on ace (to be fair i strongly supported the lynch on xvart). Bob, if you read this you definitely didnt "fail" this game as you were obv town and helped us get one confirmed scum in foilist.

Still left to reread Giitah + Valern

[Scumhunter]

Just finished a reread on Giitah and Valern. Valern was my leading suspect going into the reread but his "catchup" posts withthe spoilers look like they took some serious effort and look sincere enough to be coming from a town-sided player. Giitah, meh, I suspect you mostly by PoE. I will make a wall of the things that rub me the wrong way about you when I get a chance.

I'm quite certain that both ace and hiplop are town. I'd be very surprised if the last scum wasn't one of Valern/Giitah.

@Valern can you explain why you think ace is scum? I'm not seeing it...

[Scumhunter]

hi. im still interested in this game, just been inactive a bit.

[Scumhunter]

unvote

[Scumhunter]

making him a much more viable mislynch than you.

Strangely enough what bothered me about this wasn't you using the word "mislynch" as much as using the word "viable". At this stage, its more important to find scum then worry about what lynch is "viable". Scum are the ones thinking about what lynches they could and could not have possibly happen. If you are town, you only have to convince 2 other people to vote with you so its more important to question people and form solid opinions than to worry about gathering support necessarily

@Valern, I still want to hear your opinions. The reason you

are

a possible ML (if you are town) is because you haven't been exactly candid with your opinions this far.

If he's scum the motivation is obvious -- I'm likely an easier mislynch.

However,

I'm withholding my judgement for now

. I need to re-read and I'm going to sleep right now, so it ain't gonna happen just yet.

No more of this. I want to hear your judgements. Its day 5 and late in the game you should have some pretty strong opinions by now.

The same goes for ace when he comes back from V/LA. It is critical we hear substantial content from both of you before any lynch goes through.

@mod, can you delete my last post I screwed up the quote tags

~Deleted.
-pappums rat

[Scumhunter]

Scumhunter, out of interest, what do you think of Ace?

Her lack of devotion to her commitments amuse me.

Ace is V/LA til Saturday. Real life stuff happens. I don't read into it too much as ace was active and engaged earlier.
I still very much think hiplop and ace are town unless someone can convince me to reconsider.

It is imperative that we hear in-depth reads from valern and ace on all of the remaining players in the game and soon here...
If ace hasn't posted by Monday, I suggest we ask for a replacement/deadline extension.

[Scumhunter]

hi jilynne1991!!

[Scumhunter]

Valern, meh at your last post sir. I think your reads are pretty weak there...but yea, please do a deeper re-read...deadline is wednesday...we need time for dicussion once everyone outs reads. I'd like to see some srs business opinions from you.

AAAAAACCCCCCCEEEEEEE, we await your return from V/LA...

[Scumhunter]

Valern, cmon Its day 5, page 44...

[Scumhunter]

hiplop, there is no way there would be 4 scum in this game given our power role set. There is 1 scum left almost for sure. Do you think valern is town then?

[Scumhunter]

ace, if giitah flips town who would you then suspect? id like your reads on all the alive players if you can...

[Scumhunter]

We are nearing deadline ITS TOMORROW so

vote: Giitah

for still being my top suspect at the moment

L-1

Giitah, how has my play been different this game from other games? If that is true, which I will concede it very well could be, why does that make you suspect me?

If this gets hammered and is wrong and I die, please, please, please consider all options if it goes to a 3 way lylo situation

Le sigh at above post. That is hydra account. Sorry mod

[Scumhunter]

unvote, vote: Valern

Ok Giitah. Fair enough.

I don't think ace is "clear" though. I find it a bit strange that all he did was comment on his top suspect (you) without really outing reads on the rest of us...

Valern's lack of commitment to the game = whatever since we have a ML and he's my #2 suspect anyways I'd feel comfortable lynching him today as well.

hiplop is town. I'd strongly suggest taking another look at ace tomorrow though if this is wrong.

[Scumhunter]

Giitah, to explain a bit about my "lack of aggression", there hasn't really been a need for aggression up until this point.

Look at the lynches that took place:
d1 Pine (due to inactivity/deadline)
d2 foilist (scumslipped to bob)
d3 xvart (it was him or nintendo 100% confirmed) I actually was pretty aggressive in wanting xvart lynched and only began to reconsider that one a little too late
d4 nintendo (confirmed scum)

Both of the scum lynches that have taken place have been outed scum already...Pine was lynched due to inactivity. The only day where a strong opinion was needed was d3, where allbeit I had the wrong opinion but nevertheless if you look just at my play d3 I think it will be much more in line with what your preconceived notion of how i play would be.

[Scumhunter]

Did I just hammer btw?

[Scumhunter]

Yes, it appears I just did. hiplop, you saying "ill change if we need to" made me think yours was the first on Valern. I was under the impression giitah had unvoted valern but looking back that is not the case.

If this is wrong, please pressure ace to contribute tomorrow in this game. I know he was V/LA today, but please don't write him off for town tomorrow if this is wrong.

[Scumhunter]

Go Town!

[Scumhunter]

Sigh, gg. I knew something was off about ace when he didn't out full reads. I got impatient and even though I said to look into ace more I knew it was a lost cause once I died and ace was scum. I (and town) made multiple mistakes this game. Particularly, letting nintendo get a mislynch in before he died and letting ace slide by for 2 full days INCLUDING lylo. My first town loss on here and I have to take much of the responsibility for it as I know I could have done better, and that in itself angers me and makes me want to do better next time. Good job scum, you earned it more than we blew it really, but doesn't mean I have to like it.