Mini 1193: Hacker's Panic mafia. (Game Over)

[havingfitz]

Late night...will read and post thoughts tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

I haven't had a chance to do a thorough read through today. I did look at all the votes and did a quick look over the game. My top suspect atm is bobsox. he has been on both mislynches, his vote was all over the place on D2 and despite having evidence to clear Zodiak...he has his vote on him. Plus, he is content to vote the replacement players on a 'hunch.' WTF? 19 pages of material with 4 dead townies and you want to vote on a hunch? Do you think celebloki was a random mod kill because all the scum (except apparently Zodiak) were unavailable to submit a kill? If you are town you're not doing your fellow townies any good.

VOTE: bobsnox

[havingfitz]

the theories are separate; I haven't decided which one is best yet. Obviously Zodiark is not scum if the second theory is accurate. I don't have evidence to clear anyone. I haven't even tried to clear anyone. All of my statements regarding my targets have been couched in terms of probability and likelihood. Zodiark could easily still be scum regardless that I saw no action last night. No scum team in its right mind would send him to do the kill last night as someone pointed out.

That's a horrible replacement post and I'm starting to lean toward leaving Zodiark alone for today and getting rid of the awol slots.

So correct me if I am wrong....

Theory 1- You have evidence that Zodiark is clear (as clear as Parama??? which I would like to hear your reasoning on). But despite this...you are voting him [Zodiark] anyway. BTW...does this mean you think Parama is scum as well since they are both equally clear?

Theory 2- All the scum were unavailable/awol and therefore the mod felt it was his duty to execute a random kill on scum's behalf. So therefore anyone who was not present over the last night phase is probably scum. Is that correct? I assume this theory would rely on Zodiark not being scum because he was around. But since you are voting Zodiark and not trying to convince the other's who are voting him that he is "clear," you must really believe he

is

scum which would negate the basis of your 2nd theory.

Also, since you are prepared to base your D3 vote on a "hunch" and not on actual comments or actions that have taken place over the last two plus days (as evidenced by the fact you aren't giving any evidence and calling your suspicions a....."hunch"), why not just ask the mod how he would process the night phase if scum had not submitted a kill? I don't think his response matters one way or the other because you either think Zodiark is scum (and he was here) or you are saying all 3 scum (assuming 3) were absent. Which is almost more of a stretch than thinking you are town.


As for my last post being horrible....that's funny. If I had come in and said bobsnox is town and put a vote down on Zodiark you probably would have been high fiving me.

Preview edit- bobsnox...can you link me to where a PR has claimed?

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

While I do not care for bob's reasoning (for most of what he has said iirc) I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on his tracker claim atm as it would be quite the risk if another player was a tracker, or if Parama or Zodiak had actually visited someone.

My next suspect was...

VOTE: Parama

[havingfitz]

You have an hour to post a case.

When I have time.

[havingfitz]

@havignfitz, why are you voting parama over zodiark? You have barely mentioned zodiark as yet.

Three people are still alive who were on both the Beck and Hrezs mislynches: bobsnox, Parama and xvart. I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him. That leaves me with parama and xvart out of the three common mislynchers. With three scum in this game (unless anyone thinks otherwise) I am banking on at least one scum in that group of three. After my skim through read I find Parama more suspect than xvart (subject to change) so he gets my vote. I haven't mentioned most of the players...Zodiark did not stand out in my read. I'm not confident that either of the L-2 wagons are scum.

What is the scum motivation behind my supposed fake Tracker claim with THAT in view? I would like an answer from everyone on my wagon plus havingfitz. What is the scum motivation for easing off of Zodiark when I was pre-pushing his wagon REGARDLESS of what Hrezs would flip?

I'm not interested in you atm.

So right now we have all the smart people voting Zod, Zod trying to get bobsnox lynched, one of his scumbuddies in the neighbors assisting him, and the other neighbor being stupid. And havingfitz is making a fail and wasting his vote.

Who is scum: you, bobsnox or xvart?

[havingfitz]

We weren't even talking about a bobs lynch until fitz came in and threw all sorts of crap out in a desperate attempt to save his scumbud (also, let me remind you that fitz is part of the same slot as kondi of "random unexplained L-1 vote on a townie" fame.)

We've caught two of the three scum (Zodiark and Fitz), and I'm betting that the third scum was somebody on the hrez lynch wagon. So I'm going resume my re-read of that wagon now.

Perhaps you didn't notice I changed my mind on bobsnox?

I've changed my mind about bobsnox and am leaning town on him.

??????????

I explained why...do you disagree with my change of opinion towards you?

Interesting that zodiark doesn't stand out, but people who were on wagons that both seemed to me pretty scummy at the time are your targets. Are you honestly saying that you did not think beck and hrezs acted scummy?

Scum have to mislynch and they can not hide behind their votes forever. Regardless of whether Beck or Hrez were scummy or not, they were both town and have been eliminated. I did think Beck was scummy but his claim should have bought him another day. I did not recall anything suspect from Hrez after I finished my first pass over the game. Are you saying there are no scum on two mislynch wagons? If your answer is 'no' then why do you have issue with my reasoning?

I can see why there is suspicion around of the bobs-parama mutual fan club. However, I think the bobs claim would have been risky as scum, and I can buy some of the confusion arising from bobs clumsiness. I can see parama as scum, but Zodiark and the kondi-ah-hf slot are definitely preferable lynches IMO.

So essentially you agree with most of what I have said or done in my short time in this game. You agree with my take on the bobsnox claim and you can see my current votee [parama] as scum. So why am I a suspect for you?

Oh well.

Vote:Zodiark13

And that's a hammer.

Assuming you are scum throwing in the towel and not just a really bad townie, I need to re-evaluate my read on parama. I can't see more than one buddy bussing you (if any) but who that potentially could be idk. If you are in fact scum both your bud's could be off your wagon (which fmpov would be xvart, dj or imag). Of those not on your wagon I think xvart is a prime suspect tomorrow. One of only three people who were on both the D1 and D2 mislynches

and

off what is looking like a D3 scum lynch.

[havingfitz]

Just back from v/LA. Would like to do a reread before diving into D4. Will do so asap.

[havingfitz]

OK...apologies for the slow start. v/LA and catchup have gotten in the way of play. Reading up today.

Based on what I read before yesterday's lynch and during last night, I am leaning away a bit from Parama being scum. Based on VCA and looking over Zodiark and xvart's ISOs (ie I did not see a lot of interaction between the two of them) my top suspect atm is xvart. He was one of only two people still alive on both the D1 and D2 mislynches (Parama was the other) but unlike Parama, he was off the Zodiark lynch. More to follow but for now,

VOTE: xvart

[havingfitz]

@don...what was the mistake in your pm you referring to in post 512?

xvart is town based on his level headed posting.

Scum can't be level headed? Is there any other reason he is town?

if xvart was scum it would not be in his best interest to have me flip town.

Has xvart been pushing your lynch? From his lack of votes on you throughout the entire game I would say his actions support your hypothesis on how he would act as scum.

lynchpool should be fitz, imag, deselby in no particular order yet. i believe both scum(assuming statistic regularity) are in that pool of three.

Is this POE? Why is Coolskins not an option?

---

Okay Don, now you say that Parama is town because of the of the improbability of bobsnox tracking two different goons who didn't make the kill. That makes sense. However, yesterday you said that you thought parama was scum whether bobsnox was telling the truth or not. But now because bobsnox is telling the truth you believe Parama to be town. Do I get you right?

So that means that you lied.

Coolskins...can you provide a quote where don made the statements you are attributing to him above?

But...

I think we should lynch fitz today. Despite DJ terrible contradiction, fitz takes the scummy pie today for creating a crap case on now-confirmed town to protect a scumbud. Interesting looking back how he said he "didn't really notice Zodiark" when Zodiark was the leading wagon. And yet he noticed Bobs who hadn't really done much up until the case was made against him. And Kondi's wanton L-1 on D-1 still rings fresh in my mind.

Seriously, why hasn't this slot been lynch yet?

So I should be lynched today but you're voting don. "Scummy pie?" Why is my crap case and how the he|| is xvart confirmed town? And what scumbud am I protecting by voting xvart? don? You're just making shit up as you type...aren't you? Speaking of making shit up, I never said this, "didn't really notice Zodiark." Are you that _____ to completely fabricate a quote in order to substantiate suspicions on someone? Your comments re: bob are ridiculous...I noticed him because he was the scummiest player IMO until I reconsidered his claim. And why is someone who made 5 posts early in the game the basis for thinking I am worth a vote? What did kondi do that was so scummy and did antihero do anything to add to those suspicions?

[havingfitz]

I will be getting to xvarts post shortly.

Feel free to address my recent comments to you as well.

[havingfitz]

Here are my reads:

Towniest

xvart - is genuinely scum-hunting, and extra points because at least one neighbour must be town and she's more likely
<sip>
havingfitz - Kondi's L-1 vote on Beck, Antihero's vote switch from Hrezs to Celeboki (iso1-iso4) seems like scum switching in response to town pressure, 367 seems like he knows Hrezs will flip town, generally less sense of actually scumhunting. And I think if havingfitz really is town scum would have tried to push a mislynch on him by now.

Scummiest

Vote: havingfitz

imag...what part of xvart's "genuine" scum-hunting do you like? Considering he has been on both mislynches and was off the popular Zodiark wagon (ie. he's got it wrong [or right if I am correct] all three votes).

Re: kondi's L-1 vote...is it more suspect than whoever placed the L-1 vote on Hrez or whoever placed the D1 or D2 hammers? Why is kondi's L-1 suspect?

As for Antihero....his switch off Hrez IMO appears to be based on uncertainty of Hrez' alignment...which Anti would have had not idea of. Did you happen to look at Anti's interactions with Zodiark? It could just as easily be called bussing (minus the vote) but I do not see them being the same alignment (helped of course by the fact I know they aren't).

tl:dr;

Your reads are pretty crappy unless you are scum.

[havingfitz]

Coolskins...you guys are the worst hydra I ever ever played with. You don't seem to agree with each other and you keep making excuses based on the other's play. If I didn't think xvart was scum you would be my top suspect. The only reason I don't atm is today's interactions with xvart and your D3 crusade against Zodiark.

[havingfitz]

imag...what part of xvart's "genuine" scum-hunting do you like? Considering he has been on both mislynches and was off the popular Zodiark wagon (ie. he's got it wrong [or right if I am correct] all three votes).

This is a pretty terrible case you are making. You say nothing of my motive for being on or off those wagons which is the important part. And you don't even consider whether or not I was willing to lynch Beck based on his claim since I wasn't able to post between his claim and him being hammered, which makes me think you aren't even evaluating motives, just outcomes.

It's only terrible if you are town. Your motive for being on the Beck wagon was extremely weak with no previous suspicions directed at him. Your L-1 vote on Hrez (for a case made by don) came with no rationale of your own or any previous mention of Hrez. You are just interested in being on the mislynch. As for not being around to post between Beck's claim and his hammer...what does that matter? It didn't stop you from placing and maintaining your vote on bobsnox when he was outted/claimed tracker. This is a contradiction on your part. You make it seem like you would have removed the vote on Back if you had been around after he had claimed but you fail to do the same thing after bobsnox's claim and instead stay on his wagon while remaining off the equally prominent (and accurate) Zodiark wagon.

Coolskins...you guys are the worst hydra I ever ever played with. You don't seem to agree with each other and you keep making excuses based on the other's play. If I didn't think xvart was scum you would be my top suspect. The only reason I don't atm is today's interactions with xvart and your D3 crusade against Zodiark.

Regarding the "D3 crusade against Zodiark" you have to keep in mind the context. As scum, CooLskins had no choice but to go on that crusade because they were called out on their contradictory read already, so not being gung ho about it at that time would be even scummier. They use the classic "why isn't Zodiark dead yet?" and "Zodiark dies today" rhetoric that makes it seem like that are Zodiark or bust but don't actively try and get him lynched (other than reposting the same thing they posted the day before).

I've only been in one game with CoolDog before and he came across as a major Vi IMO...the fact he did not suspect Zodiark prior to Bub placing their Zodiark vote on D2 means little to me. The fact is...they could have easily put bobsnox (who came across as scummy to me prior to his claim) at L-1 without bringing more support to a scumbuddie's wagon. And then to immediately jump on the Zodiark wagon again on D3 just seems like excessive and unneccesary bussing.

tl:dr;

Despite Coolskins' crap play I am inclined to think he is town. Despite xvart's very well spoken and rational play...you can not ignore his actions which have been completely in line with benefitting scum. Three days worth of vote outcomes point a VCA straight your way.

[havingfitz]

BTW...in case it has gone unnoticed,

Coolskins is at L-1

.

[havingfitz]

fitz you're voting the wrong neighbor.

Why? Why is xvart town? Why are the points I bring up above not valid? Why is don scum? I will ISO him and see what the fuss is about but iirc during my catchup read I did not come away with the sense he was scum.

FMPOV, if xvart is town then that means you or Coolskins are scum. Why? Because there is no way in hell that there were no scum on Beck's seven person mislynch and I know I am not scum, which means you, Coolskins, or xvart are scum. And thats only giving scum credit for ONE scum vote on the D1 mislynch. Granted...beck's play was abrasive and he asked for a lynch so there may very well be only one scum on his wagon since town were probably happy to get rid of him.

If you are town and you honestly think xvart is town, then you should be voting me or Coolskins. That said...I'm not scum and I'm not convinced Coolskins is. Lets have

your

analysis of the D1 mislynch.

[havingfitz]

Fine...based primarily on his vote outside of his three person lynch pool I'll accept his suspicion. If he flips scum neighbor I'll apologize to confirmed town xvart be he dead or alive. don scum will point to dselby IMO. don town should focus attention on xvart.

VOTE: don_johnson

[havingfitz]

Unvote

[havingfitz]

FMPOV, if xvart is town then that means you or Coolskins are scum. Why? Because there is no way in hell that there were no scum on Beck's seven person mislynch and I know I am not scum,

which means you, Coolskins, or xvart are scum.

Fine...based primarily on his vote outside of his three person lynch pool I'll accept his suspicion. If he flips scum neighbor I'll apologize to confirmed town xvart be he dead or alive. don scum will point to dselby IMO. don town should focus attention on xvart.

VOTE: don_johnson

This is a terrible vote hop. And considering your 587 post and this vote hope it seems you should be voting either Parama or CooLskins, if you all of the sudden think I'm town (unless you think don and I are both scum fake claiming neighbors).

I don't think you are town....but as I do not know who is town and who isn't, doubt comes into play. I didn't care for the fact that don had a pool of three players he thought was scum but was voting outside of that pool so parama was able to talk me into switching. In case you did not notice, the aforementioned doubt led to an unvote so the "terrible vote hop" is no more (atm).

[havingfitz]

I'm behind in this game and a few others (aka all my games)...I'll try to catch up tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

I don't think you are town....but as I do not know who is town and who isn't, doubt comes into play. I didn't care for the fact that don had a pool of three players he thought was scum but was voting outside of that pool so parama was able to talk me into switching. In case you did not notice, the aforementioned doubt led to an unvote so the "terrible vote hop" is no more (atm).

Okay, the fact that you unvoted does not negate the terrible vote hop that did occur prior to your unexplained unvote. And if you "don't think

am town" then why aren't you voting me? Or anyone? Is it because your suspicions are now all muddled by your own previous statements and you being so easily influenced by other players that you don't know where you can legitimately justify a vote now?

Why was it a terrible vote hop?
Do unvotes need to be explained?
I'm not voting you atm because there was no rush to put my vote back on you. 0 votes or 1 votes...either way it's not doing much there.
And I'm not worried about "legitimately justifying" my votes. I'll vote for who I suspect and provide my reasons when I do.

[havingfitz]

OK...so I'm in the middle of putting my WTF I'm at L-1 post together and Coolskins hammers me. Thats twice you've killed me with crap/no reasons CoolDog. If you are not scum in this game you are a fucking idiot. I was leaning that way anyway based on our last game but this confirms it.

Also, I'd ask town to lynch xvart but you all have your heads up your ass as bad as I did.

[havingfitz]

And in review for xvart....on mislynch wagon, on mislynch wagon, off scum wagon, on mislynch wagon. Actions speak louder than words.

[havingfitz]

Why didn't you ask about what I might claim prior to hammering me? It's a tad late now. My previous comments on your play stand.

[havingfitz]

damn that hydra sucked. Deselby I was suspicious of but VCA had me looking away from parama after earlier suspicions. I thought scum was xvart and deselby. Very nice game scum.

[havingfitz]

Bub...I didn't start the bobsnox wagon, Zodiark did. And I wasn't on his wagon for long...after considering his claim I moved, ironically, to Parama. So you thinking I was scum was based on false grounds. Par for the course.

[havingfitz]

I now have a CoolDog policy lynch policy. I don't care if it gets me voted out D1 in games. If he's alive in a game my vote is on him.

I f$%#ing hate games with neighbors in them. Most worthless roles there are.

Oh...and thanks HP for modding and letting me replace in.