Mini 1207 - LIPD Mafia: Game Over!

[mastin2]

/Is about to replace in.

V/LA right now, but not to a crippling extent.

[mastin2]

I coulda sworn this thread had, like, eight posts in in yesterday. (I'll read, but warning--I can't make a QT here so when I get a PM, I'll have to post in-thread rather than in a QT. Which means I'll be a wallcaholic. My apologies in advance for the inconvenience.)

[mastin2]

Initial impression? (Writing this before getting my PM.)
Looks town.
Town-lean.
Definitely town.
Weak town-read.
Looks town.
Weak town-lean.
Is either 100% town or scum. Depends on Slaxx's alignment. Magi-Science and Slaxx share the same alignment. Either they're both town, or they're both scum.
HEAVILY leaning scum. For the moment,

Vote: Diamond

.

That's Page One, initial impressions.
You'll note no opinion on Slaxx--it's an overall null read. Flip-flops between town and scum. It leans scum more frequently than not, but something stops that from sticking. (Hence, overall null.)

[mastin2]

*reads PM*

Awesome. We have a cop this game. I'd like to say this on day one:

Cop--please read my Guide on how to play Cops

. I'll dig it up from MD and/or the Wiki.

...How do I know there's a Cop?

Claim: Miller

, that's how.

[mastin2]

The Guide. I believe it has a Wiki page, too, somewhere. But it's a good read, and I want to make sure the cop uses it well this game.

[mastin2]

Still looks like scum.
For the record, initial impression was town, then I thought, "wait, what if it's bussing?!?" >_<

I see I've been beaten to the punch about Slaxx and Magi-Science sharing the same alignment, by AGM. (He just left out the "both town" part. ) Increases my town-read on him.

Town-lean increased. Scum don't say that in-thread.

This unvote has my first thought be, "getting off of buddy".

Scumposting. Pure and simple. AGM, Wicked, likely Slaxx (and therefore Magi-Science) all looking VERY likely town to me at this point.

[mastin2]

SGR ignored the part where I tied Magi-Science's alignment to Slaxx. As in, heavily believe them to be the same (and currently leaning town).

Jumping ahead a bit:

Science and Magic (6) - Wickedestjr, AlmasterGM, SGRaaize, Slaxx, Lady Lambdadelta, charter
Will need to re-evaluate my town-reads, 'cause I do believe there's 1-2 scum here. It's not Slaxx or Wicked (see: Diamond-is-scum and Diamond's interactions), which leaves AGM, SGR (probably not), Lady Lamb, and Charter. Two names in there + Diamond, I believe our scumteam is in there. (And for the record, if I were the cop rather than Miller, I'd be investigating AGM or Charter of those names.)

[mastin2]

Town.

Pretty much no doubt about it, that was a town-post through-and-through.

Very slightly leaning Charter-Diamond. Not sold on it, yet, but if true, still need a third name.

I'm getting my reads down pretty solidly, right now. (Admittedly, they mostly revolve around Diamond being scum and Slaxx/Magi-Science being town, but I don't think I'm wrong about either conclusion.)

I'll see about compiling them all together.

[mastin2]

2. AlmasterGM <--Top scum suspect.
3. Hinduragi <--Heavily leaning town.
4. Lady Lambdadelta <--Scum suspect.
5. Wickedestjr <--Pretty much confirmed town.
6. gorilla <--Looks town. (And by POE, too.)
7. nbtnbt5 <--Also town.
8. SGRaaize <--Heavy, HEAVY town-lean.
9. charter <--Top scum suspect.
10. Slaxx <--Same alignment as Magi-Science (heavily leaning town).
11. Science and Magic <--Same alignment as Slaxx (heavily leaning town).
12. Diamondilium <--Scum, through-and-through.
13. Pine <--Town, by POE.

So,

SCUM:
Diamond
1-2 of {Lady Lamb, Charter, AGM}
(Might be one more off the wagon, but if so, I honestly have no clue as to who. So I'm heavily leaning towards it being two, not one.)

[mastin2]

Yeah, pretty sure we have this game in the bag. Sheeping me-->guaranteed town victory.

[mastin2]

Wicked's town because Diamond's scum. Simple as that.

[mastin2]

Votecount 5: The "Enter Mastin2" Votecount

AKA, the "enter, Mastin nailing the scumteam and voting accordingly".

(Mod, I placed my vote on Diamond.)

(I've always wanted to do this) Fixed~

[mastin2]

Wow mastin are you an angel?

Depends on the alignment of the player viewing me. If town, then yes. I'm an angel. If scum, then no. I'm the devil. (And due to how much I suck as scum, that applies for me as both alignments. )

@mastin2 - You get town vibes from everybody on the page 1 Slaxx bandwagon. Why don't you think there are any scum on that bandwagon if you also believe Slaxx is town?

No longer get said town vibes. It's something I'll need to re-evaluate. (Was just a site-read, essentially, while I waited for my role PM.)

Diamond's scum with LLD. Preeeety sure of that. Note the lack of LLD vote despite calling LLD scum. And staying on the dead-read of Wicked. Confirms Wicked as town. They're definitely opposite alignments.

Leaning Charter town. I find it difficult to believe LLD would interact so blatantly with Charter.

POE would leave AGM as looking like the third scum.

I'd much prefer a Diamond lynch to an LLD lynch. While an LLD lynch would be informative, it 1: would not be AS informative as a Diamond lynch, and 2: LLD's my secondary suspect. I'd prefer it if my primary suspect were lynched, thankyouverymuch.

[mastin2]

If LLD gets to L-1, I'll hammer begrudgingly.

[mastin2]

Unvote, Vote: LLD--that's a hammer

.

[mastin2]

Heh. I love fakehammering.

Unvote, vote: Diamond

.

[mastin2]

For starters, I buy the claim. LLD's reaction also had the town aura around it, in that LLD legitimately thought I had quickhammered her.

Additionally,

Lady Lambdadelta (6) - Hinduragi, Slaxx, Science and Magic, gorilla, Diamond, Mastin [L-1]
1-2 scum.
I believe Diamond's scum. I strongly believe Hindu to be town. I also believe Slaxx and Magi-Science are the same alignment, and I have trouble believing they as scum would vote like that together. (Additionally, they are the only people who have posted since the fake-hammer and their interaction with LLD doesn't look like scum. It looks like two townies, rather than two scumbags.) And I obviously know I'm town.

That leaves gorilla, who's now solidly stuck at null.

With LLD proven town, it's looking like Charter's scum again. Or maybe AGM. I'll be re-reading the thread, soon, with this interaction known.

[mastin2]

2. AlmasterGM <--Heavy scum-lean.
3. Hinduragi <--Obv-town.
4. Lady Lambdadelta <--Conf-town.
5. Wickedestjr <--Town due to Diamond.
6. gorilla <--Ditto.
7. nbtnbt5 * <--Newb-town.
8. SGRaaize <--Obv-town.
9. charter <--Heavy scum-lean.
10. Slaxx <--Lots of towntells. (Linked to Magi-Science's alignment.)
11. Science and Magic <--Less town-tells but still enough. (Linked to Slaxx's alignment.)
12. Diamondilium <--Scum, through-and-through.
13. Pine * <--Ditto. Pine's been busy across the board.


TOWN:
Hindu (obv)
LLD (reaction, claim)
Wicked (due to Diamond)
nbt (newb-town)
SGR (obv)
Slaxx (linked)
Magi-Science (linked)

NULL:
Pine
Gorilla

SCUM:
Diamond
AGM (and/or)
Charter (and/or)

Re-read's-a-go!

[mastin2]

Between this and this, there's one scum, guaranteed. Heavily leaning towards AGM, since it's slight hypocrisy. (AGM justified his vote, like Hindu accused Slaxx of doing.)

between this and this, there's also one scum. (I could throw Slaxx into this group, but Slaxx is already tied to Magi-Science, AKA, town.)

[mastin2]

So, SCUM:
Diamond
AGM
Gorilla/Pine?

(Oh, boy. I really, reeeeeeally hate it when Pine's in my scum-lists.)

[mastin2]

Magi-Science pushing the confirmed town, and not noticing her claim-->Magi-Science is town.

[mastin2]

Thanks, Gorilla. You just answered one of the nagging questions I've had in my mind for a while, now!

SCUM:
Diamond
AGM
Gorilla

Yay!

[mastin2]

Yup. Totally scum.

[mastin2]

Making excuses to try and dismiss my play already?

Man, that has to be a new record. Generally, the scum tend not to try and ignore me until I post a wall or two!

[mastin2]

We have four wagons, including NotVoting (yes, it's a wagon!). (LLD's single-vote doesn't count as a wagon.)
Average of one scum on each, with one wagon being all-town.

(Hint: it's the one which is actually on scum.
Hint for the hint: It's the one which I know the alignment of one player for sure.)

[mastin2]

you have 2 right and one wrong here, i reckon. gorilla's response to you looks townish btw, you should realise that hating your playstyle isn't indicative of alignment.

Indeed, but Gorilla's posts contain condemning interactions, scum motive, and scum tone. One or two, might not be scum. All three, pretty much a guarantee.

mastin posting before he gets his role pm annoys the fuck out of me. although not even sure i believe him, considering there was a 4 minute gap between the mod posting and him posting

Note what I posted was all on page one. Meaning the mod sent the PM to me sometime in that time-frame, I posted, went to my inbox, and got my role. (Additionally, slow connection. Dial-up.)

[mastin2]

Mmm, chocolate with cherry. My favorite type!

(Thanks, guys. you're the best.
...Though I don't suppose you'd be willing to give me a birthday present of a Diamond lynch, would you? )

[mastin2]

*insert some BS reason from Gorilla or an admission he can't elaborate here*

(Gorilla is scum, who posted something he can't back up, and to get out of it, the above two are pretty much his only options.)

[mastin2]

You get a town-read from

nope but continue to wank yourself rather than actually taking the time to further the dialogue in a meaningful way, that way I'll know I won't have to actually read your posts

A BS excuse to ignore me,

To be town?

[mastin2]

(Also, the alternative to Gorilla-scum is Pine-scum.
I really don't want to get into that fight*. )

*SEE ALSO: There Will Be Bloodshed, and every game with both Pine and Mastin after that.

[mastin2]

TOWN:
Hindu (obv)
LLD (reaction, claim)

Wicked

(due to Diamond***)
nbt (newb-town)
SGR (obv)

Slaxx

(linked**)

Magi-Science

(linked**)

Charter

(POE, more townie*)

PINE:
Pine

SCUM:

Diamond

AGM

*
Gorilla


Now, anyone care to point out how these are horribad reads and completely wrong?
'Cause, well, they seem quite accurate to me.

Spoiler: footnotes

These are all things I've mentioned in my previous posts, but for those too lazy to look back and who don't remember:

*

I concluded one or both of these names were scum. I concluded only one would be. This is what I decided was more likely.

**

These linked names are a rare instance where I concluded that they're both the SAME alignment. In this case, far more likely town at this point.

***

These are a typical example of me pointing out interaction which is not townVtown. My conclusion was Diamond more scummy than Wicked.

[mastin2]

Also, while I realize all three names here really enjoy multiposting to no end, it reaches a point where we risk killing game activity, so I'm probably not going to post in here until there's someone to respond to other than Slaxx and Riddick.

[mastin2]

One as a mod (with me as a hydra-player), two games as a normal player.
This marks the fourth game Slaxx has seen me, third game for me seeing Slaxx. And,

I hardly ever draw scum.

^That.

But for me, it's not coincidence.

Mods look at my past games and shiver--they know, "well, Mastin sucks so badly as scum that if I were to have him replace in as scum, his scumbuddies would request I force-replace him". So, they save the trouble and give me a town PM, not knowing how I'll perform, thinking, "what's the worst he can do?"

(Answer: nail the entire scumteam on day one, making their game far shorter than they originally intended it to be. )

[mastin2]

LOOK AT ME IM LUUUURKING GOD IM SO SCUMMY

You're not scum for lurking.

Never woulda noticed had you not pointed it out.

You're scum for thinking people think you're scum for lurking.

[mastin2]

It's like the scum basically give up the moment I replace in.

They see me, they decide, "oh, well. He's found us. No point in trying to hide, anymore." It's like they've already realized they've lost, and are now doing things just for the heck of it, to get some fun in the game before they're lynched.
(Gorilla's posts, super-scum.)

[mastin2]

^ on the top ten worst votes ever list.

Actually, no. The reasoning might not be perfect, but it's not that far off from a suspicion in my mind. Additionally, it clearly displays a pro-town mindset. It might not be the strongest vote ever, but it does clearly indicate Vifam's slot is town.

Town
Mastin
Hinduragi
Slaxx
SGR

Riddick

Wickedestjr
charter
SaM


Scum (Assuming 3 scum, 3/4 of:)
Diamond
AGM

gorilla

Hey, that looks like my list! We should be friends!

...Or, well, the list would be if you did the list the same way I did, strongest at the top.

We should still be friends, though; your Gorilla reasoning (as well as to an extent, AGM) was awesome.

[mastin2]

AGM? You mean Vifam?

Yes and no.

If Vifam is scum (I currently do not believe that to be the case), then it's a great argument for AGM being scum as well.

The way I see it, Vifam's either town who jumped into the game in a way I saw as pro-town (my current belief), or scum who weakly bussed and purposefully faked an entrance that'd look pro-town. (Fully possible, but not in my mind very probable. I think that it's an issue for a later day, after we've had a flip or two--Diamond's my first choice.)

Also, since Diamond is at L-1, I'd fully support a claim-then-hammer strategy. (Like I said, a Diamond flip reveals more to me than pretty much any other flip will.)

[mastin2]

I'm the doctor. Part of the reason I was so suspicious of LLD's claim is that a vig seemed to make us way too powerful as there's me and probably a cop. Just in case there is an actual quickhammer, here's my scumlist:

1)Wicked
2) Mastin
3) Gorilla

So, let me get this straight:
You think there's a cop...
...When the only evidence of a cop comes from the miller...
And said miller is me, Mastin...
...Who is second on your scum list?

...Yeah. Diamond's fakeclaiming scum. Who just scumslipped, big time, by revealing both the vig claim and my claim are legitimate. Additionally, Gorilla is now confirmed scum, because Diamond wouldn't be able to resist the "buddy and two townies" tell.

Furthermore, Diamond's primary suspect is now Wicked, which is awfully convenient to come up after all the accusations of them being mutually exclusive alignments.

[mastin2]

Additionally, a doctor kinda counters the power of a vig. Going by EM which our Mod apparently played from, Doctor-Vig combos are pretty much unheard of. Heck, even on MS, it's rare. I know, even-night vig isn't a full vig, but it's still a somewhat powerful role. If LLD's claim was limited-shot vig, I can see a doctor in the setup. But even-night is not the same as a limited-shot vig. Even-night is both stronger and weaker, in that it's not limited in shots, but can shoot less often, therefore meaning that every shot the vig makes is that much more important to the setup--meaning that a doctor potentially countering it is a bad idea.

Additionally, doctor's the most stereotypical fakeclaim out there, and Diamond's view on LLD seems incredibly stretched.

Furthermore, having a vig, cop, miller, and doctor in the same setup would either mean an INCREDIBLY strong scumteam (we're talking Roleblocker plus Godfather as the kind of strength needed to counter that), or one of the claims is a lie. LLD's is believable and provable. Mine will be self-evident over time. Diamond's...won't be.


Let's not fall for an obv-fakeclaim, please?

[mastin2]

Looking at Diamond's ISO, there's a lot screaming scum. He's pushed Science, Slaxx, Wicked, and LLD, all easy mislynches. That's in addition to him now having added me and Gorilla. He has condemning interactions with AGM as well, in the form of the quote, where he basically tells the town that Slaxx and Magi-Science are both town. (Good to know, Diamond. Thanks for the free info!)

However, since that wagon has not gone anywhere and the LLD wagon is, Unvote, Vote: LadyLambdaDelta.

You can't get worse than this.

For those of you claiming that I voted LLD without reason, I had expressed my suspicions with reasoning previously.

1: I'll need to double-check, but I don't remember people voting Diamond for voting LLD without reason. (See also: AGM being scum for thinking people think he's scum for lurking.) 2: More importantly, I looked. Other than

Indeed. He's asked for his suspicions and then shows up to lay down a vote bringing SaM to L-1 without explanation

(in which it was extremely poorly explained--oh, and is hypocritical), there really ISN'T anything, so this was pretty much false.

Diamond's given pretty much nothing pro-town the entire game.

[mastin2]

Hey, Slaxx.
Remember Scott?
"JOAT: Cop-Watcher-Commuter"?
Yeah, him!

Remember how the game could have ended a day earlier if you hadn't bought his obv-fakeclaim? Nobody in the dead QT did. Remember that?


...Yeah, same thing's happening here. (The resemblance is scary.)
See this obv-fakeclaim?
See how the game will end one day earlier if we lynch him today rather than later?
How once we have a dead QT, they'll be screaming the same thing?

I do.

This'd apply to Gorilla, too, but Gorilla's scum so obviously he will buy it.

[mastin2]

If Mastin2 sincerely thought that my claim was an obvious fakeclaim, why did he simply not argue that my claim was fake and explain?

...Isn't that exactly what I DID?

but gave the impression that he never really had a legitimate case against me.

False. You were scum for plenty of reasons. I presented new ones in my rapid-fire posting. For instance, you have a scum tone, you have condemning interactions, you've consistently displayed scum Motive, you have a scum mind-set, and you've had scum intentions. These are all things I've mentioned before.

Your wall-paragraph additionally adds the charge of "artificial, forced, contrived post" to the argument, and I can add another incidence of hypocrisy to the charge since that's exactly what you're accusing me of doing.

Now that it's clear that I'm town

If this is what you consider clear, then I'd hate to see what a foggy night looks to you.

Additionally, what happened to your Gorilla suspicion? You seem to be using Gorilla to attack me, while not addressing Gorilla, who is third on your scumlist.

I'll answer: because you didn't think of any reasons Gorilla is scum; you just know he is and didn't think about reasons to call him scum. It's once more displaying a scum mind-set. He thought of reasons for me, because he needed to BS some reason to suspect me. (By the way, this is about as blatant as OMGUS can get.
More than that, his entire case is built on things I said AFTER he put me on his scum-list. If his suspicion was legitimate, he would have used virtually zero of my recent arguments--it'd all be stuff I said before or at the time he put my name on his scum list.)

Whereas with Gorilla, he hadn't prepared any. Subconsciously, he already knows Gorilla's scum, so he finds it harder to explain why he's scum, because he has less legitimate town reason to know. He can point out plenty of things which make Gorilla scum, but only because he has that inside knowledge that Gorilla's scum. He can point out nothing of Gorilla which comes from a legitimate mind-set, because he knows none of his suspicion comes from a legitimate mind.

[mastin2]

Diamond posts scumlist. I am second on it.

I come in.

That is the first post Diamond quotes in his case. I'll bold the things which can so much as remotely be considered coming before then.

Mastin's last few posts seem to reek of desperate scum seeking to push a mislynch that was seemingly within grasp moments ago. If Mastin2 sincerely thought that my claim was an obvious fakeclaim, why did he simply not argue that my claim was fake and explain? Instead he gave reasons as to why he thought the claim was fake and then frantically threw together a case arguing that I had not done anything pro-town. Not only did this case have many ungrounded and clearly false accusations,

but gave the impression that he never really had a legitimate case against me. Looking back, he never really made any coherent arguments against me, merely content to cite to my posts and shallowly state that they're scummy. However, when it came down to it, he never really was able to reference me accurately and explicitly give reasons as when Gorilla asked for them.

Ultimately, his most recent case doesn't resemble

previous suspicions he's expressed about me and there's an incongruity in the way they have been delivered. Yet Mastin2 has been pushing me the entire game even basing his scumlist largely on players' relation to me.

Now that it's clear that I'm town, his scum list has crumbled yet he fails to actually attempt to genuinely scumhunt instead chooses to tunnel. To me, it's the perfect set up for scumhunting the next day. Because when I'm mislynched or killed and flip town, it's easy for him to clear out his scumlist and prey on the next easy target.

And mind you, this is being rather generous.

In other words,
TIMELINE:
-Diamond posts OMGUS suspicion on me. I'm second on his scumlist.
-I post dozens of reasons why Diamond's lying, fakeclaiming scum.
-Diamond makes a case which revolves mostly around what I did after Diamond's post.

In other words, Diamond had no reason to suspect me until I had posted, yet suspected me before I had posted. In other words, his suspicion is a load of BS.

[mastin2]

Science, why did you target LadyLambdadelta specifically and not anyone else on the Slaxx wagon?

Slaxx, do you have any explanation for your attacked post? Also is your vote on Science and Magic serious? If so, why did you vote and why did you vote without explaining?

Scum pseudo-scumhunting. This was a rather safe stance to take. It has a scum tone, it's artificially constructed, it's weak, and it shows a scum motive--he might not have voted Science or Slaxx, but he was leaving the door open, rather than closing it. He refused to take a more firm stance.

Diamond also fails to put a vote down.

I don't find the post in question scummy. Also, link to game?

You still need to answer the second two questions.

Scum tone, pushing weak stance, artificially constructed. Shows scum intention, as he's prodding around and looking for weaknesses to exploit.

That's odd, because I'm getting the exact opposite read on these players. Slaxx is playing consistently with what his town meta has suggested and he also didn't seem to crack under pressure of votes or questioning. Instead he focused on expressing reads and scumhunting. I think Science and Magic's answer to my question and vote on Lady expressed genuine scumhunting as well.

This is a rather condemning interaction with AGM. It takes the opposite stance as him, and the wording seems to be that of scumbuddy-to-scumbuddy. His wording is artificial. His tone is that of scum. It shows a scum mind-set, as the way he concluded that they're both town reeked of being a BS reason based on inside knowledge. (Just like his Gorilla read, only reversed.)

His questions don't seem to have any purpose and I'm getting the impression he's asking for the sake of asking.

This is hypocritical, since guess what feeling I got from Diamond's post 23?

@Slaxx, I wasn't voting before because I didn't have a scum read.

This was also essentially a scumclaim. Every single other player on Page One had a vote, and pretty much every single one of them was for a scum-read. Perhaps not strong scum-reads, but scum-reads nonetheless.

Reason for your vote?

This one's for you, EM!

Why Me = Fry Me!

*

(*Please note, this expression was not in use while I was a player on EM. It must've come up after I left, and I do not endorse its usage. [I just couldn't resist. ] It's the tone in here which is important. It's not asking, but rather, HOW you ask, and in this case, the way Diamond asked was pure scum.)

@Wicked, I questioned Slaxx but not you because Slaxx was being pressured at the time and I wanted to see how he reacted.

This is also scum, admitting to pushing town just because they have been pressured. In other words? Bandwagonning, without actually voting so it would look less suspicious.


And that's just from Diamond's first three posts!

[mastin2]

Oh, and by the way, these are made from going into ISO, and then going to the post in question to get as much context as I can, without me relying on others' reasons for suspecting Diamond. I'll be adding THOSE later.

Providing town reads isn't particularly scummy. Plenty of people provide them as town including me.

Fluff, pure fluff.

Hinduragi, I tend to question a lot regardless of alignment. Look to my completed games as proof.

This is artificial wording. It also has a scum tone. It's additionally a scum Intention, trying to defend oneself with meta. (Meta of this nature is very easily manipulated.)

The whole "safe vote" and being "nervous about laying a vote down" stems from my playstyle more than anything else. Again if you examine some of my previous games you'll see that I tend to be cautious and very deliberate with votes.

The same, but worse. It shows the classic scum mind-set, of trying to make oneself look null rather than suspicious by bringing up past games. I did it all the time as scum, which is why I recognize it faster than most people do.

Oh, and that exchange solidifies Hindu as town, since that wasn't scum-scum interactions.

I'd give my townie reads regardless of alignment and likewise I'd be cautious with my votes regardless of alignment.

Again, the excuse. "IT'S NULL, IT'S NULL! I SWEAR I'D DO THIS REGARDLESS OF MY ALIGNMENT SO STOP PUSHING ME FOR IT!" That's what Diamond is saying. Behind those words, though, is the true message: "I'm scum, sure, but STOP NAILING ME FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS!"

No, I'm saying he's perceiving my vote as safe because I tend to be cautious with my votes which is more of a playstyle issue than it is an actual tell.

Poor justification of his actions; the defense quite frankly doesn't live up to the accusation of essentally Diamond having scum-slipped. This also is artificial in its construction, and has a pure scum Tone.

What makes you think that I only read "the first two posts of one other game"? If you bothered to look at the game he linked you'd see the stark similarities between his play that game and his play this game.

This is another poor defense of his actions, in this case a scumslip by revealing he knows Slaxx is town.

SaM, pointing to my other games as a defense is completely legitimate because that's the explanation for what you perceive as scummy from my posts this game. If you took the time to just glance over a few of my previous games (I've only played in a few), you'd see how my votes and questioning are not tells at all.

"Please, oh, god, listen to me! Please look! Please look at how I'm matching my previous games!"

(Fun fact--you can intentionally mimic your play in a previous game. It's a good scum move. I pretty much never do it for a reason--because I know I get caught every time I try once it's pointed out.)

Indeed. He's asked for his suspicions and then shows up to lay down a vote bringing SaM to L-1 without explanation. I wouldn't say he's the only one riding the SaM wagon though. I still think Wickedestjr is scum. One of the reasons he listed for voting against me was that I hadn't responded to his defense and that my vote was still one him. He seemed to be overly concerned and worried about my vote on him.

Charter's gambit I thought was brilliant and SaM's reaction affirmed my town read.

Scum tone. This post also is extremely artificial. It also leaves open the back door, leaves open a way to get out if need be. Look at all the words used to leave himself open for backpedalling if necessary--"wouldn't say", "still think", "one of", "seemed to be". You get the idea. It's also hypocritical, as Diamond is overly-worried about the suspicion on him. Additionally, it contains buddying to Charter, and once more reaffirms a read which he quite frankly never explained that well.



Shall I go on? I'm basically just getting warmed up.

[mastin2]

And, yes, we are, Diamond.

Effectively, we've had four roleclaims.
Three you can see. One implied from mine.

That's more town power than we should have. We have ten town players--40% of them being roles is too much when they're as strong as the ones claimed.

Diamond's claim makes no sense in the setup, and makes no sense with his play. His posts have a scum essence to them, and he has blatant scum links. He has inside knowledge. He can't hide it, despite trying. He already revealed that Slaxx and Magi-Science are town, he already revealed that Gorilla's his scumbuddy. He made himself too obvious, and is now paying the price--his team has lost. I'd rather have a perfect victory rather than a perfect-minus-day-one-victory.

[mastin2]

EditBWOP: The first line was originally going to read, "Yes we are, SGR", but then mid-way through, I switched thoughts to "Yes, we are lynching Diamond". Either interpretation is correct.

[mastin2]

^Scum trying to get town-cred for bussing buddy.

Sorry, Gorilla. It's a brilliant move, but it's too late--Diamond already effed your side over by revealing far too much info.

[mastin2]

btw if there's a doc out there they should cc, i'll take a 1/1 trade any day.

There's not. That's why it was a perfect scum fakeclaim--because them having a good idea what the setup was via the two and a half role claims so far in addition to their scum powers,
Mananged to deduce that having a doctor would be far too powerful against them.

And therefore, it's the perfect fakeclaim, because they know they won't get countered and people for some reason trust an obvious doctor fakeclaim more than common sense.


But if you really insist.
If you really, really don't want to lynch the claimed doc.

How about AGM or Gorilla, who are condemned by interactions with Diamond? Lynch them, back to back, and when Diamond the false doc is still alive day three with both his buddies dead, we can lynch him!

[mastin2]

It was more of a general "you" towards the town.

I want a scum lynch, today. Diamond's a scum lynch, but if despite my best efforts, people can't overcome the fact that Diamond's claim is an obvious fakeclaim, then I need to ensure their alternative lynch isn't a mislynch and is still a scum lynch.

[mastin2]

Science is scum, we're getting him

And this is exactly what I was talking about. Magi-Science is not scum, and therefore is a mislynch.

If you want AGM or Gorilla lynched, I'll sheep that. But not a Magi-Science mislynch. Diamond's scumslips have revealed Magi-Science and Slaxx to both be town, and AGM+Gorilla to be scum.

Also, copping the doc fakeclaim is a waste. The cop should target AGM/Gorilla. (AGM if both are alive, whichever is alive if one of them is lynched.)

[mastin2]

Read up, but not much time to type. Super abbreviated notes -

Cop+Doc was cool like 10 years ago. That said, there is something about Cop+Doc that is appealing to people running their first game. I did it in mine. So that's fairly null, but the doctor will have to be taken care eventually so we might as well let it go. There is also the possibility Mastin2 is lying about being a miller, but I think this unlikely (even though his reads are mostly crappy).

Otherwise,

vote: unvote, vote Vifam

^Scum, failing to address SO many issues. Like the even-night vig IN ADDITION to the cop.

Seriously, vigs and cops have the same function in a game.

He also leaves open a seriously bad fencesit on me. Additionally, this is AT LEAST the fourth vote on Vifam, if not closer to a lynch.

Pure scum vote.


Vifam-SGR was townVtown, by the way.

[mastin2]

MASTIN:
Mastin

Your reads in there look accurate to me.

Mastin's town this game. I can tell.

Indeed. Doesn't mean I don't need my own category, though.

[mastin2]

Sadly, it's not.

And your case is good; AGM is day two's lynch.

[mastin2]

THIS, however, IS the hammer.

Unvote, Vote: Diamond

.

[mastin2]

So, AGM's scum regardless of Diamond's flip?

YAY!

[mastin2]

Awesome.
Oh, and Slaxx is confirmed town. I don't want to hear so much as a shred of doubt about it.

[mastin2]

Riddick's also pretty much confirmed town, too, so if I see anyone so much as doubting a word from their mouth, I'll hunt them down.

[mastin2]

curious as to why you'd point that out as a fakehammer charter

^
"Getting tired of it" doesn't seem like, well, a real reason.

(And, hey. What works, works. Based on the reactions, Slaxx and Riddick both confirmed themselves as town. Vifam strongly increased my town-read of that slot. You've made me second-guess my town-read on you, Charter, and Gorilla's reaction was null-leaning-scum.)

[mastin2]

And now I have to disagree.
I'll admit, AGM's not as strong of a scum-read.

VOTE: Gorilla, however, is.

I agree with all of your town-reads (you can replace me with you, and it'd be accurate ), along with your gut town read of Hindu. Obviously not your gut town read of Gorilla, hence my vote.

gorilla, Vifam, Hoppster, Science and Magic,

Riddick, mastin2

, AGM
I do agree there is at least one person bussing. It's almost certainly not Magi-Science. It's almost certainly not Vifam. Leaves Gorilla, AGM, and Hoppster. Our lynch should be one of them.

Also, this should be painfully clear--cop shouldn't claim unless they've got a dang-good result. (Innocent on someone at serious risk of mislynch or a guilty.) We obviously have no protective roles this game.

[mastin2]

2. AlmasterGM * <--Suspect.
3. Hinduragi * <--Not suspect.
5. Wickedestjr <--Town.
6. gorilla <--SUSPECT. (Vote.)
7. Hoppster nbtnbt5 <--suspect?
8. SGRaaize <--Town.
9. charter * <--Suspect.
10. Slaxx <--Town.
11. Science and Magic <--Town.
13. Vifam Pine <--Town.

Narrows it down to:

2. AlmasterGM *
3. Hinduragi *
6. gorilla
7. Hoppster nbtnbt5
9. charter *

Lynching within those five will give us a guaranteed town victory.

[mastin2]

Sure.

Unvote, vote: Charter

.

Why not? We have 11 players alive, and only five suspects. It's a guaranteed win no matter who we lynch. (I did the math and it checks out. 11 alive, five suspects. 9 alive, 4 suspects. 7 alive, 3 suspects. 5 alive, 2 suspects. 3 alive, 1 suspect. Guaranteed. Town. Win.)

[mastin2]

Yeah. So if the cop happens to be among the five or have a result on one of the five, they should probably claim.

[mastin2]

The scum are going to be aiming outside of the five, anyway. And if the scum [REDACTED--Don't want to say it if they're not doing it since it'd give them the idea ], there's a fair chance the cop'd be found soon enough, eventually. So, if the cop has 1: a guilty, and/or 2: a result on one of the five, and/or 3: is one of the five, they should definitely claim.

[mastin2]

I'm the doctor. Part of the reason I was so suspicious of LLD's claim is that a vig seemed to make us way too powerful as there's me and probably a cop. Just in case there is an actual quickhammer, here's my scumlist:

1)Wicked
2) Mastin
3) Gorilla

You think Diamond named three pro-town players as his suspects?

I find that hard to believe, yet Wicked's def-town, I know I'm town, and that leaves only Gorilla.

[mastin2]

Anyway, Slaxx, can we at least agree that Hindu is the least likely of the five to be scum?

[mastin2]

Think you can give an estimate on the strength of the list?

For me, it's probably something like Gorilla-AGM-Charter-Hoppster-Hindu
I'm guessing yours is Charter-Hoppster-?-?-Hindu.

Can you fill in the blanks? (Yeah, it's kinda hard for me to give an exact order. :/)

[mastin2]

Diamondilium (7) - gorilla, Vifam, Hoppster, Science and Magic, Riddick, mastin2, AGM

1 scum or 2 you think?

Not sure. On one hand, Diamond was obvious scum. I can totally see both scum bussing to try and get town-cred. On another hand, I just finished a game where I THOUGHT there were two scum on the D1 scum-lynch but it turned out to only be one. There's definitely at least one, though, which as mentioned is in {gorilla, Hoppster, AGM}.

[mastin2]

Which only improves our odds by that much.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards one, now that I think about it. I went back to Desert Mafia for an additional reference, where I found that RP--despite being obv-scum--was the only scum on his lynch when he self-hammered.

So, I've got two recently finished games which suggest that the scum don't bus as hard as I think they do on Day One Obv-Scum-Lynches.

[mastin2]

We'll be honorary neighbors, then.

I'll be voting wherever you go, if it's among the

five

four.

[mastin2]

So if charter dies today, why aren't you voting him?

[mastin2]

i'm going to take credit where credit is due.

glad mastin died before he could push gorilla = scum jailer though.

Nah, I'd go with mafia roleblocker fakeclaiming JK!

In all seriousness, Gorilla claiming a confirmable role like that would've made him town since the scum's power role had already flipped; since two scum PRs in a town this weak would be overpowered, Gorilla was town.

[mastin2]

The Miller was meant to hinder town, but it basically gave them a clear from the get-go. Millers as an anti-town force is not as effective as I'd hoped it would be! Maybe if they were not told they were millers, it would have been a lot more scum-sided.

I personally love EpicMafia Millers, who flip Miller if NK'd but Mafia Goon if lynched (and obviously investigate as scum), while thinking themselves to be blues. However, here on mafiascum.net, that last bit (thinking they're blues) and the whole false-reveal thing is considered to be mean modding, as it is a form of lie. (Though I am kinda curious if it could be done in an open game... )