[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[tarsonisocelot]

/confirm

[tarsonisocelot]

VOTE: el simo

1. I see the game as a massive probability tree that branches at every role and every outcome possible. As scum then I begin with several of the most important branches already set. The aim is always to end up in the set of branches where the win condition is set, and it's easier to work out which set that is when you know the more of the set-up. Both are challenging but I currently prefer scum more because I enjoy trying to convince others to head down the paths that lead to my win condition over trying to work out which paths those are.
2. With magnets. And by trying to keep track of inconsistencies.

[tarsonisocelot]

1) The part in brackets at the end sound like mafia whining over snarky remarks being an unfair thing to lynch over. (Oh look, this tell has come up yet again in my posts)

That's small though, compared to:

2) I'm reading what you are saying and I feel that, given your situation (people are voting you for something stupid like your playstyle), I feel that you really should be showing more frustration than you are. Lack of townie frustration IS a scumtell.

I'm not sure how differently mafia whining about being wagoned for playstyle and townie frustration over being wagoned for playstyle are supposed to present. Could you clarify the differences between them (preferably but not necessarily with reference to this game)?

[tarsonisocelot]

Y'know what. I really like the HH bandwagon- even better than my tarsonisocelot vote.

Unvote. Vote: Horrifying Hero

My reasons:
-They've stated two suspicions but haven't explained either of them and haven't made any effort to convince others to follow their vote for me.
-They haven't posted a lot recently. This is especially strange considering they were pretty active the day the game started.
-They are a miller. That, itself, isn't suspicious, but a miller's allignment can't be determined via cop investigation. So we determine their allignment based solely on their play during the day. Horrifying Hero, however, is giving us hardly anything to work with. They're playing with their cards too close to their chest. That isn't the way that a miller should be playing this game.


I still suspect tarsonisocelot, but I'm not explaining why until 2-3 more players post in the thread.

Will you explain now? Pretty please?
And please don't refer to me as him as you did in your previous post.

Also, HH, even listing the scumtells from a couple of posts would be helpful.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'm not sure how differently mafia whining about being wagoned for playstyle and townie frustration over being wagoned for playstyle are supposed to present. Could you clarify the differences between them (preferably but not necessarily with reference to this game)?

Do you know the difference between whining and being frustrated? One has a hint of anger towards it, and it's not the former.

Why would scum whine but not be frustrated if caught for something they feel is not a scumtell?

[tarsonisocelot]

tars - according to you, who's scum?

I don't know yet. Maybe yankcane, the points about their reaction to HH's gambit seem valid.
I do have a bad feeling about Wicked, but I want to wait a few RL days before deciding if that's actually merited by the tone/content of their posts or whether it's a knee-jerk reaction to them voting for me while saying "I have a case and I won't tell you!".
Maybe yonzy, the "Is it still RVS? I didn't notice! vote:random" thing was odd.

Wicked, it's a bit early in the game to claim anything definite based on a lack of stated suspicions. I never know what to do as any alignment early game and need more information than you appear to to develop a list of reads.

I ask questions to get people to clarify what they mean and provide more information to evaluate them on. And I try to ask in a non-confrontational manner where possible, so you are likely to find conditional words in my question sentences - to HH, who still has not explained their Wicked vote, for example.

[tarsonisocelot]

Tarson: Do you think Hez is trying to appear pro-town, or alternatively, trying not to offend anyone (like he accused me of on that miller reaction you referred to)?

They're posting very actively, and it's hard to dislike anything about lasers (except the electricity bill and the scorched walls), but a lot of their posts have been random so far. I really don't think they're trying to avoid offending people - see "Did it really take you 8 minutes to write that?" and other remarks.
Could be trying to appear pro-town or could be town distracted by their own "SCUM LAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZER".
Waiting to hear more.

[tarsonisocelot]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

Why is bobsnox a townread for you?


If I can't get my head into this game by tonight I plan on replacing out. Since it started external events have distracted me from mafia and while there isn't anything I can do about the situation it makes it a little hard to care about this. If I can't gather enough focus by tonight I will replace out because it would not be fair to the town to mislynch on D1 because I didn't give enough of a shit to defend properly or contribute.

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: YankCane

[tarsonisocelot]

Yank: I did not c&p others opinions. Those are my own.
You seems likely to create more wars of walls and while generating content is a good thing, wall wars act to direct the game towards the agenda of one and only one player, to distract from all other players/interactions and to flood the thread with so much information that analysis becomes much more difficult than it would otherwise be. It often, as in this case, devolves to players flaming each other.
Because of the amount of posts and their length then wall wars make players look town while actually impairing town's ability to scumhunt.
I had you as a scumread in isolation, but I have since read the thread more closely and have a stronger scumread on bobsnox and I don't think you're partners.

bobsnox is scum. Read the ISO. Almost all of their posts are one-liners and there are multiple vote-only posts - plenty of activity but almost nil contribution. Their vote on YankCane recently did not make sense

They're bad because it's day one. You don't know as much as you think you do. I know you're not new to this site so what's the deal? More often than not stuff like this gets a townie killed day one and then another townie autolynched day two for leading the wagon. I don't know what you and Hez are but neither of you are good day one lynches based purely on that.

Did this change between #18 and #21?

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.

yeah I don't know if hez is town but yank is not good for town.

VOTE: yankcane

I barely skimmed the last couple pages, so nobody freak out about me not answering their recent posts.

Then:

You're very caustic aren't you? It's not really wishy washy, but you can misrep all you want day one. You're the best person to eliminate at this time. That's how I play day one. I tried to get another strategy going because I'm not convinced you're scum, but you are utterly against that. The rampant tunneling on hez and the refusal to seek a better gameplan has convinced me you need to die. Also, the omgus on tars will probably not go well for you.

Yank's play hasn't changed much in the last few pages, when did this change from a TvT fight likely to lead to a double mislynch to "Yank must die because he's bad for town"?
Was it when you decided the focus had shifted from Yank vs Hez to lynching lurkers (with me as the most likely wagon) and decided that defending someone you knew would flip town would look good tomorrow?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: bobsnox

Rainbowdash: I'll post my thoughts on them in my next post when I've read them, bobsnox' defence of me and attack on yank felt off enough that I looked at them first.

[tarsonisocelot]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

bobsnox is my biggest scumread for reasons I have just posted. Read the ISO and see if you still think they're town.

el simo - null, most of the activity was around the start of the game when they were targetted for saying they'd been town every other game on this account, lurky since they stopped being attacked, little scumhunting.

Wicked - leaning scum
I did not like the "I'll explain later why I'm voting, after some other people have". It seems like a way of trying to get other people to provide the arguments for a wagon, thus subtly pushing others to change their reads on a player (in this case me) without having to actually provide a reason for them to. As other people didn't bite Wicked was left arguing that I was scum because I was lurking/inactive, as the vote was cast in post #101 then that was a bad reason (though later in the day it would have held merit).
Wicked works as a partner for bobsnox. Their only significant interaction:

It was a random vote at first but his ISO gives me scumvibes just like those others I listed. You are right, though; I didn't explain it. But I was trying to imply that I guess.

What exactly gives you scumvibes in his postings? Any specific examples?

I feel like an idiot but I must've pulled someone else's ISO up and thought it was his. I don't see anything scummy in his ISO upon review.

UNVOTE: Lobster

I feel like an idiot but I must've pulled someone else's ISO up and thought it was his. I don't see anything scummy in his ISO upon review.

Whose ISO did you read instead?

Wicked - honestly I don't know. I should've been recording things as I saw them but I didn't this early in the game. Probably one of those other ones I listed.

Not only does this read like a major mistake from bobsnox, but Wicked just drops it totally after this to vote for Mastin.

avasthearties - null, has made reasonable enough posts but not really scumhunted, questioned bobsnox on Lobster's ISO but did not follow up when bobsnox admitted to not having read the ISO he claimed his vote was based on.

HH - miller fake claim is null to me. I want to hear the case/cases they have. Soon. They've been promised for a while but not yet delivered.

[tarsonisocelot]

I feel im going to need to explain a little bit of terminology in my above post and ask questions or I will end up regretting it.

Candyman (pheonomion?) is when a player appears from lurking almost immediately after having been called out on lurking. This tell goes WAY back, and is quite accurate. Look at Tarin in this game, she stays quiet for the most part, and then under 24 hours from votes showing on her, and an hour from me calling out for a prod, she comes back. Timing is impecable, or however that word is supposed to be spelled. Not that im bad at spelling, but if somepony who was awesome at everthing like me needed to work on something, that might be it.

Accurate at detecting lurking? Also whether you believe it or not those were co-incidences. An hour after you posted happened to be when I logged on in the morning after spending the weekend with family members.
I salute you for your dedication to Equestria.
What do you think about bobsnox?


I believe that I will be able to focus on the game enough to help for now, and I will replace out if I find myself unable to focus as I have been again, and I will not give any explanation in the thread until after the game if that happens.

[tarsonisocelot]

Tars - nothing changed except my mind on what was most valuable for today. He was still refusing to stop tunneling Hez and pushing what really looked like a bad lynch to me. That was antitown behavior and I thought it was time to give up the middle road and remove Yank from the game.

Funny thing is, I'm just as willing to jump on your wagon because we finally have some consensus going. Your misinterpretation of my motivations looks like scumpainting and deflection. "Oh people suspect me? Let me find the easiest target to deflect on." I'm always just that - an easy target. You can read through any of my games here and see that. I don't mind being the bait when I have certain roles because my wagon will inevitably have opportunistic scum on it.

UNVOTE: yank

VOTE: tars

And that wasn't a defense of you

Yank voted for me and you called it OMGUS saying it wouldn't go well for them. That certainly seemed like a soft defence of me, though it could have just been part of your attack on Yank.

Funny how your mind changed around the time others decided to head towards the middle of the road.

And as people have been ignoring you all game then you're hardly an easy target.

I don't mind being the bait when I have certain roles

No town reason at all for this (vanilla?) softclaim.

Yank is town because they aren't scum with you.


ConfidAnon: Could you please make some specific criticisms of the case instead of saying it isn't good?
And HH really needs to post their case/cases.

[tarsonisocelot]

At present I will support either Wicked or bobsnox.

I am unlikely to post within the next day as I will be busy from 0900-2100 and not awake enough to make much sense afterwards.

[tarsonisocelot]

ummm no?

who are you again? No offense meant, but it's really hard to take you seriously. Maybe if you used appropriate pronouns that might help.

You got basic acknowledgement. I see your request. But you discredited my case on yank so I don't really feel like doing much else on your schedule.

You've never encountered a Brony before?
At my university there are many - and we are awesome.

Also that's a bad reason to not provide any cases you can make. As town you should be glad to have flaws in your cases pointed out.

At this point it seems like most people agree with a Wicked lynch, while we are having difficulty agreeing on anyone else. In the light of the approaching deadline I'm going to move my vote now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wicked

Today was horrible. Exam that was supposed to finish at 9pm started almost half an hour late while 9am class started right on time. Hence no detailed thoughts with this post, just one I thought earlier to say now. Goodnight everypony.

[tarsonisocelot]

I wonder who his 7th will be..?

7th what?

[tarsonisocelot]

vote

I'm good with my vote el simo. Is there a good case against you I should be interested in?

Thanks, I'm a little derpy right now.

[tarsonisocelot]

Yes that is what everyone is saying, let's lynch Wicked because he has relationships with scummy people A, B and C. It doesn't make sense to lynch him over that, we don't even know the set up yet and we already deducing that he is everyoens partners. Lynch scum first, find buddy later!

That's what I'm trying to do.
Just because I've said they would be a good partner for bobscum doesn't mean I don't find them independently scummy - I do.
Also I don't like the look of the avast wagon.

At the least the voting in this stage of the day will make interesting rereading tomorrow.

[tarsonisocelot]

I've already claimed avast. Nobody has presented me with a case on Wicked, despite asking numerous times.

Where did you claim?

[tarsonisocelot]

Wicked has at least made some contribution now (I'll decide how much I like it during the night if I don't before).
el simo has not.
When you get back over the weekend could you please link me to where you have claimed and make some nice useful detailed posts.
UNVOTE: VOTE: el simo

[tarsonisocelot]

Mod: PLEASE FIX TAGS STOP THANK YOU STOP

This telegram brought to you by years gone by.

[tarsonisocelot]

el simo has basically nothing in their ISO. I'm not sure why I actually changed my vote to them at this stage in the day.
Not particularly sold on avas being anything right now but unless a one-shot day cop declares a guilty in the next 24 hours they're the lynch.

IGMEOY Rainbow Dash, and Gummy's eye too.

[tarsonisocelot]

Ok, I misunderstood the post about having claimed. And I don't quite know why I voted you (I don't quite remember my reasoning, there was some but I'm fairly sure the case on bob is better so I should have just gone back to voting them then).
UNVOTE:
VOTE: bobsnox


Sorry about being a bit all over the place this weekend, more of the same reason I was considering replacing out earlier. But there won't be again and I should have refocused well before the start of Day 2.
I will give an outline of what's happened after the game if anyone wants it, my play earlier was detrimental enough for town and the activity level of the whole game that you deserve some explanation.

[tarsonisocelot]

@taron, i would like you to explain your read on rdash.

I'm suspicious, so I'm watching Dashy. I did have a town read earlier in the day, but I'm not sure any more. The mediator points may be valid but I have yet to decide if I think that's so.
My pet alligator thinks the same.

bob-the same point (playing mediator in the yank-hez fight) adds to the case against you but:
I really did not like the way the avast wagon grew, and I don't like the way the bobsnox wagon has grown again this quickly. There is scum on this wagon and I want off. This makes bob more likely to be town.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Wicked

I buy most of the points in the HH Wicked case. Not sure about the whole scumteam, though I can now see it as possible. Will evaluate scumteam possibilities after Wicked flips.

[tarsonisocelot]

I know I started and pushed the wagon on bob, but I'd be damned if I'm allowing a lynch to form that quickly on someone with out anyone mentioning as much as even why they're voting him.

I've said why before.
Just because you didn't notice or disagree doesn't mean it wasn't said.

UNVOTE:
Not willing to lynch a claimed cop on D1 without a really good case.
Will decide how best to proceed later today.

[tarsonisocelot]

I pretty much moved Rainbow Dash to definitely Town after Vifam's flip. That could have potentially made them more dangerous than town Wicked. And I think a protector would be more likely to go for the cop than the vig.

Wicked: How did you decide who to investigate? Did your result say innocent or did it say town (if you can say)?

I'm guessing bobsnox was killed by Rainbow Dash.

[tarsonisocelot]

Really guys? Rainbowdash said he was going to kill either avasthearties or bobsnox. That's why I didn't investigate either of those two players.

Makes sense.
Good night all.

[tarsonisocelot]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

If Wicked is scum then the scumteam have to either give them up tomorrow to be lynched as obviously fake or have to abstain from killing toight if they want to pretend there's a doctor.

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

If they flip town then we may have an extra read. If they're scum there's no real downside to getting more interactions with them and possible analysable hijinks before they flip.

Either way they'll flip soon enough without lynching them right now this instant.

[tarsonisocelot]

Nobody's posting.

I demand to know why fake cop Wicked has not been lynched yet.

Someone enlighten me.

If Wicked is scum then the scumteam have to either give them up tomorrow to be lynched as obviously fake or have to abstain from killing toight if they want to pretend there's a doctor.

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

If they flip town then we may have an extra read. If they're scum there's no real downside to getting more interactions with them and possible analysable hijinks before they flip.

Either way they'll flip soon enough without lynching them right now this instant.

wait...what?

what do you mean the scum team either have to give them up? who is them? are you referring to "them" as a hydra?

Since we were so skeptical about wicked's claim yesterday, i'm now not really surprised he is still alive with scum hoping that wicked will be mislynched. HOWEVER, this is a really strange thing that neither the vig nor the "cop" were rbed, and the cop wasn't redirected. it was a big gamble for scum to make, however... im inclined to look into other candidates today as well. this isn't a 2 person scum team.

@ all yall who think wicked is scum, who do you think are possible buddies?

@any of yall who think wicked could be town, who do you think could be scum now, with relational information with rdash and bob being town?

quicklynching wicked is probably not the best play today.

I default to they/them if I can't remember the gender of a poster and am too lazy to check.
If we don't lynch Wicked today and if scum kill someone other than Wicked tonight then we lynch them tomorrow unless they have a guilty - if they have a guilty we lynch that person and lynch Wicked the following day (even if the guilty is real, Wicked has to die before MYLO). Scum giving up a kill would be attempting to make it look like there's a doctor that there isn't.


You are assuming that scum had the ability to redirect or roleblock. Roleblockers are ordinary enough that I could accept that as something to think about as a possibility but not redirectors.
Why do you think that scum has such powers? Only way I can see you thinking it strange that scum didn't roleblock/redirect is if you know scum have that power.


I think Wicked is probably scum. I think at least one of the scumteam is staying quiet now. Haven't decided exactly who I think they are. Will reread Rainbow's reads.

[tarsonisocelot]

Leave them alive until tomorrow and either the scumteam will kill them if they're town and there's no doctor, the scumteam will not kill anyone giving us a free day or the scumteam will kill a random and we'll lynch Wicked tomorrow.

What? How long are we going to leave wicked scumbag alive? Right now he is scum just squriming for one more day. This is not town play at all.

Just until tomorrow.
Then we potentially get one more piece of information.
There are enough people alive that we can do this without risking the game.

You're right about Wicked's play being anti-town for the vast majority of this game and more so now, but I can hope that if they are town then knowing that they will be killed tomorrow they'll pick their investigation target wisely tonight and give us a set of reads to go on with (that we will completely ignore if they are scum).

I am willing to hammer Wicked tomorrow, or if we reach deadline today without an alternative.


LobsterCatapult: Why do you think scum have the ability to roleblock or rediect town powers?
Also I agree with you on there likely being one scum out of {avast|el simo} and that one likely being el simo based on the yesterday wagoning.
VOTE: el simo

[tarsonisocelot]

Wicked tomorrow will claim a guilty or something, lead to a mislynch, and suddenly he's gone from being lynched on day 1 to taking TWO people with him (whoever gets lynched today in his place, plus his fake guilty tomorrow)

That's why I said that we lynch Wicked regardless of result tomorrow.
I've recently seen a couple of people I thought were omgscum flip town prs and it's made me wary of things like this.

My idea was that we could lynch whoever we would have lynched tomorrow today, and Wicked tomorrow with a small chance of having a useable result.

It's 1for1 not 1for2 and therefore not favourable to scum if Wickedscum.
If Wickedtown then them dying tomorrow would give us 2 confirmed alignments instead of one.

Thinking through, it may have become a little convoluted.
Willing to hammer Wicked today.

Sorry flaked from the site for a few days.

[tarsonisocelot]

@hez why are you harassing taron over this when i practically did the same thing?

I missed your-doing-that.

But a counterwagon does not start at one. Tarson was vote two {had he voted elsewhere i would not be holding him against this -- but with wicked absolutely needing to be the lynch today a second vote completely rubs me the wrong way}.

She. Tarsonis is a planet.
And as the "vote 2 = scum" has been brought up in this game already then trying to use it as a tell is fail.
The only tells that still work a fair amount of the time when people are aware of them are based around subtle points of interaction which are hard to deliberately alter, not magic numbers which are very easy to hit or avoid.

[tarsonisocelot]

Wicked is null for us. I know cop+vig seems OP but for now we should really leave the cop claim alone. Honestly, the only reason the vig got shot before the cop is because the vig was suspicious of scum (otherwise, why kill the vig). Look who his vigpool was-the only remaining living and unconfirmed player is the guy we are voting.

This is interesting.

But we are lynching Wicked today. End of story.

I hate this post. You're tunnelling majorly.

What about Ethos' post is interesting and why?

[tarsonisocelot]

Ethos, what would you describe the attitude of town-el simo as? And what actions has he done that match up with actions he did in Mini 1061?

[tarsonisocelot]

UNVOTE:
I trust the explanation of the meta-read.
I also really like el simo's recent posting.

[tarsonisocelot]

Question I'd like answered before I post my analysis (which I'm still working on):
tarsonisocelot, was your vote for el simo in post 41 a random vote or was it for the reasons given by ConfidAnon in post 35?

I didn't have any strong feelings about any player at the time, and the "I've been town every other game on this account" thing bothered me more than anything else that had happened at that point. As post 35 had already explained why one might dislike that post, and I was at the time pretty much apathetic about everything I didn't state my reasons. It's not a post I would lynch for, but it is one I would vote for to see if the reaction was worth lynching for. My lack of commitment at the time pretty much stopped me from actually doing anything useful though.


Also, welcome to all the replacements.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'm willing to hammer LobsterCatapult closer to deadline.
I believe that the redirector remark was a slip.

I'd believe that you'd play with roleblockers often enough to consider them in any set-up, but not redirectors.

[tarsonisocelot]

@ Tarson -

If you're okay hammering or lynching Lobster is there any particular reason you haven't voted her already?

@ Wicked -

With deadline in less than four days these 'strong points' are going to need to be presented very soon and by very soon I mean today.

Thought there were only 9 alive (based on counting the people listed as voting). I don't hammer before deadline without making sure people are satisfied with the day ending.
VOTE: LobsterCatapult
L-1

[tarsonisocelot]

Interactions Between el simo and tarsonisocelot:

Firstly, let me remind you of earlier when I voted tarsonisocelot for not doing any scumhunting, giving any thoughts, or seriously voting/suspecting anybody. tarsonisocelot defended against this case by saying this was her playstyle and said that this was because she needs more information. However, that didn't stop tarsonisocelot from seriously voting el simo in her post 41. Later she says that it was because his supposed AtE bothered her more than anyone else at the time. If that was the case, why wasn't she able to seriously vote anybody later in the game until we got more information to work with? It's because her vote for el simo was an early distancing vote. Otherwise, her behavior early in the game made no sense if she's town.

Secondly, in post 322 tarsonisocelot gives her reads on four of the players because she was asked to (IIRC). el simo is one of the players tarsonisocelot gave her read of. My issue with this post is that, unlike the other three reads, tarsonisocelot doesn't justify her el simo nullread- it's IIoA. This reeks of scum reluctant to give a read on their scumbuddy.

Thirdly, you'll notice that throughout the course of the game, tarsonisocelot has voted el simo three times. She voted him in her post 41 but never did explain the vote or express suspicion of el simo, despite stating her vote was serious later. There was also no followup to the vote and she never asked el simo any questions (which is odd considering she had her vote on him) until this post where she finally switched her vote. She votes el simo again in post 496 but removes the vote immediately after el simo responds here and states that she didn't really even remember her reasoning. tarsonisocelot votes el simo a third time in post 644 but this vote doesn't come until after LobsterCatapult expresses suspicion of him and votes him first. tarsonisocelot uses bandwagoning as a point to justify this vote but never mentioned the point earlier. What's worse is that tarsonisocelot does nothing with this vote. el simo asks her about the case before defending and tarsonisocelot never elaborates which shows that she doesn't actually care about el simo defending himself. She switched her vote before even seeing a defense from him. I strongly get the impression that tarsonisocelot is desperately trying to distance herself from her scumbuddy.

Fourthly, one of the more important points, IIRC, el simo has completely ignored tarsonisocelot throughout the whole game and only interacted with her when defending himself from her votes. I don't know what his read of tarsonisocelot is. If you're too lazy to read through his iso, you can just look at his catchup post to get a good idea. There's no mention of tarsonisocelot in it.

More later. Just a note: I'm not expecting to get either of these players lynched (even though I would prefer that to happen), but I don't expect to be alive tomorrow, so I'm getting all of my thoughts out there.

Do you know the difference between "that rubs me the wrong way" and "that's a tell"? My first vote was the former kind - the kind that is just slightly more directed than random. Also I didn't claim playstyle, I claimed external events which almost lead to me replacing out. I will give a brief explanation of my extreme disconnection from the early game after the game but not before.
I really don't remember what reasoning I had for the second vote and the Vifam wagon was over before I knew it.

Basically you're dead wrong. I'm town. But keep on trying - if you make a few more posts like this you might catch actual scum.

[tarsonisocelot]

Also as I'm not scum, a neighbour or a mason there is no player I have any connections with, including el simo. And I think that I've actually ignored most of the people in this game - how come actually paying attention to someone counts as distancing?

[tarsonisocelot]

simo, What's your read on ViFam and bobsnox (whose latest posts were in between my arguments)?

bobsnox is my most town read, ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

Why is bobsnox a townread for you?

If I can't get my head into this game by tonight I plan on replacing out. Since it started external events have distracted me from mafia and while there isn't anything I can do about the situation it makes it a little hard to care about this. If I can't gather enough focus by tonight I will replace out because it would not be fair to the town to mislynch on D1 because I didn't give enough of a shit to defend properly or contribute.

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: YankCane

Hey Wicked, the bold bit in this quote is where I referred to external events.

There's not that much in my ISO so you should have found it fairly easily. Claiming that I haven't mentioned external events is a lie.

You're either tunneling badly and need to rethink based on actual flips rather than speculated links between living players or scum, and I'm still leaning scum on you. But it's better for town to lynch you tomorrow than today.

[tarsonisocelot]

Ethos is the godfather.

To clarify: is this a joke?

[tarsonisocelot]

There we go. Magic 8-ball images are so much better.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'm a VT, and dang I was sure Hez was town until about the last 3 days of day 2.

Also with Hez-scum then I'm guessing that Wicked and el simo are town.

[tarsonisocelot]

Which would make a town block of Wicked (cannot see as scum with Hez), el simo (due to late yesterday interactions with Hez, not as sure), Ethos and myself [Town(Wicked)=>Town(Ethos)^Town(TO)].
We may have this.
Will vote when I've looked at the 4 remaining.

[tarsonisocelot]

Well it is entirely possibly that the BG took the bullet for someone and the hider was hiding behind the BG. In that situation both would die from one night kill.

This plus my reading of this game so far is that Rainbow Dash shot bobsnox N1 and was killed by the mafia, then the mafia hider hid behind Magua while the mafia tried to kill Wicked, who Magua protcted, accidentally killing their hider too.
I'm expecting a single night kill tonight and it'll probably be Wicked. (Cops stand little chance without protectors)

Fenix, you're about to be lynched. Are you scum? If the answer you're about to give to us is no then who do you think is scum?

[tarsonisocelot]

Sorry guys. I've been very busy. My thoughts...

HezLucky scumflip makes Horrifying Hero, el simo, and Krazy (who replaced KKN iirc) look much better. I'm also pretty sure Ethos is town as well (but I might have to look at his and ConfidAnon's interactions with HezLucky). That leaves tarsonisocelot and Fenix. I think one of those two players is the last scum. Getting an innocent on tarsonisocelot and Ethos doesn't clear them because either of them could be a Mafia Godfather, so I'd still be happy with a tarsonisocelot lynch despite the investigation result. I still need to take a look at interactions between certain players, but until then, I think I'd like to

Vote: tarsonisocelot

. But if nobody's interested in this lynch, then I'll hammer Fenix.

Really?

[tarsonisocelot]

If no-one has anything else to add to the debate today, I will hammer in 30ish hours time.

[tarsonisocelot]

jesus christ wicked you suspect two people, ones at L-1, one has no votes.

Which one should you be voting?

I'm voting the player I suspect the most. And I made it pretty clear that I'd hammer Fenix if I couldn't convince enough people to vote tarsonisocelot.

Why is it so unlikely that tarsonisocelot is mafia?

Because you got an innocent read on me last night. Remember that?
Yet you've suddenly decided that it's more likely that I'm a Godfather than for someone you have no result on to be scum.
Why?

[tarsonisocelot]

VOTE: Fenix

[tarsonisocelot]

Good game.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'd like to apologise for my play in the first part of this game.
The external factor that I mentioned was the prognosis of a terminally ill relative. In between confirmation and page 2 an expected time frame of a couple of years shrank to 5 days then grew to 10, and I was unable to travel to say goodbye.
At the time the shock left me drained, and I should have replaced out of this game but didn't.
It wasn't fair of me to stay in this game when I couldn't concentrate on it.
If anyone had their enjoyment of the game compromised because of my play then I'm sorry for that.

I hope that I'll play better in any games I play with you in the future.