[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[Rainbowdash]

Hey everypony! Word in Equestria is that you need some help, sure is a good thing im here!

Will have this all read in 10 seconds flat.

[Rainbowdash]

You seem to have quite the problem with ponies not doing anything in this town. Is that standard or did I fly in here during an "off" week?

I realize that we have some Derpy Hooves types like Yonzy here that are more of a threat to themselves than friendship, but a few others are getting by much more slyly.

Vote Kid Know Nothing

He has done nothing useful in this game but attempt to trap people with shadows of overaggression when its actually pro-town to ask questions about why votes exist. He also is passively attacking punching bag Derpy, which is far more mallicious than voting for them. It feels like egging a wagon on, when that would best be served by actually voting there. Now I know everyone is going to be all like "But Rainbow, he already is voting for somepony!". Well yeah he is, but he is doing nothing to further that case, just sitting on it.

*whew* see

10 seconds.

[Rainbowdash]

Asking questions is not the only way to play the game. Lies are easy to fake, reactions not so much.

If anypony is remotely competent they are.

And I just changed my vote to Avas, who has yet to come on and respond to it. Or post since then. How am I supposed to further my case when there is literally nothing else to discuss until Avas posts?

You are sitting on a nonexistant case. What you are pushing them for is that they reacted like scum would react to somepony throwing out a vote without any reasoning by voting for them AND asking questions about a baseless vote. If that is the scum reaction, what the hay is the town reaction? Blindly bandwagoning you? Ignoring the vote? Asking questions but NOT voting you?

Somepony must have been kicked in the head as a filly. Or is a threat to the magic of friendship.

[Rainbowdash]

And I just changed my vote to Avas, who has yet to come on and respond to it. Or post since then. How am I supposed to further my case when there is literally nothing else to discuss until Avas posts?

Alright, response here then. Your vote is pretty clear OMGUSing. How would you expect someone to react to your explanation-less vote? Your argument is illogical as there is no way you can make that previous vote out to be a pro-town action. I voted you in an attempt to pressure some explanation out of you, and all of the action you have taken since then has made me decide to keep my vote on you. It seems to me that you made that previous vote so that you could think of a way to attack whoever mentioned it; since you did not provide an argument with it, you were free to make up your own explanation for it as the situation unfolded. This apparent attempt at trying to create an easy target to attack strikes me as perhaps the most scummy action in this game so far, so my vote will remain on you. Your vote on me simply fits in with my idea of what you were trying to do with that previous vote.

Everypony else needs to buck up though.

Like give me a paragraph on why someone in this game is mafia. In their next post. Or suffer wrath.

[Rainbowdash]

You ponies make Fluttershy look like Pinky Pie.

SOMEPONY SAY SOMETHING!!

[Rainbowdash]

Notice the lack of redundant "scummy vote is scummy". Straightfoward.

So you are supposed to call somepony out on it WITHOUT a vote to be town and WITH a vote to be scummy?

I've also already noted the fact that Yonzy's post was incredibly scummy. In obvious ways. Incredibly obvious ways, painfully obvious ways. I refuse to buy into a VI or "Derpy Pony" title simply because it's insulting.

He is. I have seen his type enough to know that regardless of everything he is going to come off as Derpy Hooves and get lynched or vig shot in most games. You just can't put much trust in them, much like that one time we sent that one pony that couldn't tell directions to go help the birds migrate, learned that one the hard way. Anyways, he should be replaced since he hasnt even posted for almost five days.

Explain how my vote attempted to create an easy target. If my argument is illogical, then the only easy target that's come of it should be me.

What?

Nevermind.

Here is why you are mafia though: You have done nothing but harp on null tells this game. Despite him simply needed to be replaced, your Yonzy case holds a whole lot more water than the Avas one that you are pushing because its based on what you think the proper reaction to your just vote post was. What if I think that him voting you was the correct thing to have done in that situation, and another pony thinks ignoring it was, and then you think simply commenting on it was and so on. My point is, everypony sees things like that differently, and that is your entire case, theory of YOURS. Yes what are tells are generally just applied theory, but its common concensus theory, this is not.

What this also does has allowed you to essentially ignore the rest of the game. I have no clue where you stand on the whole back and forth between HezLucky and YankCane. I have no clue what you think of HH and the fakeclaim (which was AMAZINGLY stupid, I would expect play like that from Mastin but not Lat). You have just used this whole "incorrect reaction" as a reason to ignore everything else that has occured in this game.

@Yank - Im not voting Hez. He is not obviously town, we can call him neutral, but there is no real point in that lynch happening.

Also not really loving the Yank wagon, but its better then quite a few, almost purely because CA is on it and he is quite strongly town. That vote on Hez from him really doesn't feel like scum either since its a long hard road to take as opposed to where he had been.

[Rainbowdash]

So you are supposed to call somepony out on it WITHOUT a vote to be town and WITH a vote to be scummy?

Yes. When they don't vote for 'lolpressure'. In your opinion, are votes without explanations scummy? Do they have any purpose?

They have purpose if utilized corretly, but I really don't think this falls under that category since from what you are trying to argue. Your first vote wasn't scummy at all either, it wasnt a good time and place for it, but that wasnt something that caused any concern, it was the follow up of it.

Yonzy was at one vote before I voted him, hardly under any pressure. Not even close to being threatened by a lynch. I was looking for a few reactions to the vote; one being someone calling me out on a possible OMGUS and so on.

...

What are the town reactions? The scum reactions? Remember what I said about how everpony is different in their reactions and mindset? I sincerly doubt that this will manage to catch scum at a greater rate then scum exist in the game.

Asking why I voted Yonzy is not why I have a problem with Avas. It's just the way he went about it. A vote with "suspicious thing is suspicious" does very little to really further hunting. What was suspicious about it? Was the vote opportunistic? No.

Pot, kettle.

What is the difference between you voting Yonzy without any explaination about why he is scummy, and then Avas voting you without any explaination as to why you are scummy?

If I was looking for an easy wagon, CA would have been a better choice. He was already getting suspicion thrown at him. Why go after someone who had an FoS and people were largely ignoring? No benefit. Was the vote an OMGUS? No one bothered to ask.

*twitch*

Is this really one of those "I wouldnt have done this if I was scum" comments?

@Hez/Yank - Ok, stop arguing now. Everpony gets the points and can decide for ourselves. Weigh in on other things.

[Rainbowdash]

Who should I vote?

Wicked, naturally.

(Wall still incoming.)

Wake me when it gets here. You have been holding out on a case of him since the first page.

[Rainbowdash]

Seriously

No fighting, yes friendship. This WILL work itself out. I can bring up some great stories about how competition can get in the way of friendships if you want.

Lynch pool today is KKN and Tarin (could also be swayed to el simo). One we get one of those flips we can move on from there. Right now this is going to become a black hole that will draw everypony into it by dominating discussion. Hez is being AMAZINGLY stubborn to the point where he is threatening anypony who attack him, even moreso then Yank who needs to drop his case at this point and move on.

[Rainbowdash]

RDash: Why is the lynch pool only of 2 players? What would each of their flips find? Why do I need to drop my case if Hez is being more stubborn than me?

Because he is probably town, and you are probably town, and if everypony would realize that the best way to deal with a situation like this one is to diffuse it, use a lynch flip then followed by the night actions to learn more about the ponies in the arguement its better. You are not allowed to argue "more stubborn" either as a reason to carry on an attack, this isnt eye for and eye and hoof for a hoof.

Lynch pool is two because those are my two strongest scum reads. Their flips catch scum and/or clear up reads on neutral players while cementing stronger reads.

Also please tell me you are kidding with Anon scum. I mean, if thats serious you are making Derpy look like Twilight.

@bob - There we go. Voice of reason. While HH is more of an unpredicatble entity in this game, they arent a great lynch. The continual ignoring of the game is a slight tell, especially given that mastin is known for being one of the more overboard posters and Lat is definantly competent. Just would rather go in a different direction

I see Hez has come around. Good. We can start to move on.

[Rainbowdash]

Why is Anon town?

His ISO.

It continually shifts viewpoint not to go along with the pacing of the game but instead to respond to point that are made for and against people being scum, without showing any real motivation to move towards or away from certain players baselessly which tend to be indicative of scum. The only way I start to secondguess this read is with a Tarin-scum flip, even then though, he is a leaning town player.

Why is Hez town?

Gut, and a few weak tells up and down the game.

Why are you trying to diffuse this? Why is bob a voice of reason?

I want to diffuse this because its massively counter intuative and if you guys really are both town, exactly what scum want to create and will thrive off of in these games, which is why we are going to stop it. Bob either realizes this, or doesnt realize it and still has come to the correct path of action.

Why are you helping Anon and Hez so much, without explaining it.

You arent going to listen to reason either way, and this situation is unique as neither of you are actually obviously town like most people are when the time to shut down arguements normally is. Attacking the core of the problem is going to be best instead of reasoning with it.

I just realized you're the third and final person who is appearing pro-town without actually being so. You just want a lynch on anyone, excpet of course, Hez and Anon.

Except of course Hez, CA, you, HH, bob, LC, Yonzy and maybe wicked and avas. Reading is fun.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm not going to shut up about Hez and Anon until either A: I'm lynched, B: They're lynched. So live with it, folks, and join in the fun for pete's sakes.

I go with my version of option C then, ignore all of your posts because they are going to be blind repetition of the same points you have presented and we have chosen do not have merit required to lynch. If you have something to say about anything but Hez or CA I will listen. Until then we are done. That or option A which I would prefer not to do.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow: What do you mean "we" have decided that my points are false? Absolutely no one besides the two I'm suspecting has called my points false, or crummy, or horrid.

You have one person who agrees with you. "We" outnumber you, and you need to do something productive in this game instead of continuing to harp on something that is causing this game to move around in circles. You see how nothing has been discussed for the last few pages except you? Its stuff like that which will LOSE us the game because it creates the perfect shroud for scum to just plod along in.

I am going to say this one more time, as calmly as possible, and if you choose to ignore it again. Im done responding to you.

You are probably town, but at this point you are nearly as big of a liability to the town as scum are, since you dont get it. The game does not revolve around you, but it resolves around us, as a collective, working together to figure out who stands up for friendship and who stands up for evil. When you bypass the us aspect of the game, you take away one of the biggest things that we can have going for us in discussion, which creates information. Asking for people to comment on a case is all well and good, and it should be done by everyone on a regular basis to keep the database full, however you are not perfect, even I am not perfect (shocking I know), so you need to be willing to listen to reason. You also need to be willing to change when its necessary to change, and at this juncture, you need to give up your current wagon and move on. Hez is not going to be lynched today, ponies have been posting and no one agrees with it. No matter how many times you post what is essentially (it is) the same thing, you will probably not change anyponies minds. You will more likely accomplish the opposite in ponies deciding to no longer take you seriously and instead ignore further opinions of yours, you can see it happening already. The worst part is as ive already said, you are probably town, and doing just about the worst job of using that status as possible. So please, for all of our sakes move on so this GAME can move forward. The longer you stay hung up on this the more you are going to creates long term damage to the town by stripping away the natural flow of the game.

I am dissapointed by the Lat catchup post. Does lots of nothing for me. Hopes shattered.

unvote
Vote Tarinsocelot

This could be a fun wagon to drum up.

She has done nothing this entire game. All she has done is make weak statements about most ponies who are the games hot topics. There is some suspicion of Yank, Wicked, Yonzy, HH and Hez apparently, but there is nothing attached to a read apart from one line, "maybe... but maybe not" statements about how something could be from town or from scum. There has been just as much of an attempt to get more out of Wicked for the vote on her then to push a case on anypony for the entire game. Coasting for scum ends here, KKN will work himself out over the next day or so.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow: That's all well and good, but it's not like they're the only ones I'm talking about. Heck, even in my posts to them, I've asked them about other things in the game (like the KKN wagon), which they also haven't answered. What do you want me to do now? Just sit back and lurk because no one will listen to me?

I want you either to try something else or try a new way of going about old things, since the current plan of attack gets us nowhere.

In my eyes, my case is productive. Yes, we are a town, and yes, I am going to continue to be involved with other things in the game besides Hez. But in no way will I Let Hez coast through the game either just because you say I should stop. If that's the case, then basically the reason you want me to stop (because I'm letting scum slip) would be the same thing that you're going to let Hez and Anon do, and I don't think they're confirmed town. Am I confirmed town too? Who else is confirmed town to you? Do you see how this could get out of hand?

"Confirmed town" is stretching it quite a bit. At this point its more of town reads of varying strength. It usually takes quite a while for an essentially confirmed town read to come up in these games. What im not going to do though is let someone I think is town go down without a fight. Loyalty.

You're making stuff up like "the flow of the game". Forget the flow of the game. Make Hez answer the questions. Make Anon defend himself. I don't want to drag it out, I just want answers(I think I've said this almost every post over the past 3-4 pages, yet they continue to make excuses). It's not my fault that they can't answer them.

I guess one of my biggest problems with you continuing to call on CA to defend himself (can you stop calling him Anon? That is another player on the site) when I don't really get what you are pushing him on. Hez I do, and to a certain extent I agree with a few points, but some of his recent moves really are not inline with what scum would try to do in this situation I think. You have to get rid of the blinders to an extent though. Step back, reevaluate and then move forward again. Make a bullet point-esq case instead of taking one of his posts and putting superscripts into it, its a far better way to acheive the type of responses you want.

If Hez is just simply not going to answer MY questions(Where's Vifam's case, by the way?), then he better at least contribute to the town in other ways.

And im waiting for him to start on something else, especially with the way everything has gone recently.

Tarson/Simo/Avas all need way more content.

Do you want to join me in the glorious compramise wagon that is Tarin?

@Hez - You need to make a more productive move here as well instead of continually poking at Yank. We understand your opinion on him at this point, and its time to continue the game elsewhere. If he makes a nice concise case like I am calling for, respond in like, and we probably can put this whole thing behind us and go all town-alliance mode on someone. Besides, im the only one who gets to post images this game, its part of who I am, yay me.

[Rainbowdash]

First and foremost, Rainbow, I am not a pony.

Will get caught up later everypony, Sunday tends to be my errand/chore day.

[Rainbowdash]

The active ponies in this game are mostly town, one not at most, which means its time to band together.

@Yank - Reading through your case, I still am not ready to vote for Hez, at very least without the scum flips of a few ponies who I see as viable partners, even then, like you, he is prob town who needs to move on from an early game mixup. Tarin is a very good spot to look at for a partner to him if you truely believe that Hez is scum here. If you look at Tarin, most of his suspicions are very vauge, but the most solid one we actually see is siding with him over you in the current debate very weakly, but at the same time strong enough so the hop to your wagon makes a lot of sense. On the other side of things, we have Hez really ignoring tarin except for calling him out as a lurker at a few points. Just consider it, Tarin is probably scum here given the unwillingness to commit to anything this entire game, and works with your top choice whos wagon has already stalled nowhere near a lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

ViFam I don't like, can't say why I'd have to reread him in ISO.

Try.

[Rainbowdash]

Tarins needs to be prodded, and wagoned, maybe replaced. Not sure what else we can really do until she comes back at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

I think Hez is town and Yank either scum or troll and either way not a good thing for town.

yeah I don't know if hez is town but yank is not good for town.

Yank is town. Possibly even more town then Hez at this point. I hope you ponies are trying to troll and not be serious.

Also Tarin, candyman much?

[Rainbowdash]

I feel im going to need to explain a little bit of terminology in my above post and ask questions or I will end up regretting it.

Candyman (pheonomion?) is when a player appears from lurking almost immediately after having been called out on lurking. This tell goes WAY back, and is quite accurate. Look at Tarin in this game, she stays quiet for the most part, and then under 24 hours from votes showing on her, and an hour from me calling out for a prod, she comes back. Timing is impecable, or however that word is supposed to be spelled. Not that im bad at spelling, but if somepony who was awesome at everthing like me needed to work on something, that might be it.

Now, to throw in some additonal questions for the rest of the game.

@Tarin - Even if you are replacing out, can you give me reads on HH, Wicked, el simo and avas?
@HH - Given the chance to play it again, would you make the same gambit? What did you expect a town or scum reaction to be?
@Wicked - Reads on el simo, avas, KKN and Tarin. Have you ever been in a game with a miller?
@KKN - Reads on Tarin, HH and Wicked.
@Vifam - Reads on el simo, Tarin, avas and HH.

Deadline fast approaches, I know its not until Saturday but I work wierd hours during the week and might not get much access at all Friday or Saturday depending on how fast the DCN department can get their work done.

[Rainbowdash]

While I do appreciate the rainbow vote count, presumeably in my honor, that kind of thing needs to stop. A few unexpected changes of events recently make me need to reevaluate some things, those last few posts were really inline with Tarin town that I have read before. I should go back and look at one game with bob scum in it that I remember from past ages.

Tarin also gets points for playing pony with me. Being fun has its benifits.

[Rainbowdash]

HH - Why did you decide to recend your miller claim? At this point I really do not care which of you ponies does the analysis, but sompony needs to very soon.

@mod - Can you make deadline 11:59 or 12:01 so there is no misinterpretation of when it falls? Or just give us a countdown clock, that one is coded into the board at this point.

unvote

Pending answers to questions. If we stall out I am almost fine doing a policy-esq lynch on Vifam who took over Derpy and since then has lurked without providing any type of information to the game.

[Rainbowdash]

Hey guys, I'm Friend.

Oooh! Im sure I can make lots of good posts with this in the future.

@Rainbowdash, in your Post 151, why do you call the case on avast nonexistent?

More specifically, the case from KKN is nonexistent for reasons that I went on to explain later. Mostly that it was based off a "bad reaction" to an unexplained vote, which really is about as subjective as you can get. I actually don't have avas as a strong town read here, as he hangs more around the neutral area, but how he is getting pushed there is something that is very wrong and needs to be shut down since it threatens to degrade into theory and semantics arguements instead of scumhunting. Sometimes its best to just make the play that will keep everyone in line regardless of how you view somepony.

@EVERYONE: Does anyone have any meta on bobsnox? Does he play like this as town?

Quick meta-alignment skim shows he was scum in Simpsons Large. Haven't been able to read that game though. Work the early shift this week and am out of town this weekend (lets say im going back to Cloudsdale for housekeeping chores), although I expect access. If somepony else wants to tl;dr it for me I would appreciate it. Tarin is the only one I have meta'd and the recent posts lean heavy to her town game, although the first few aren't even all that close to anyalignment games.

Love Rainbow's Post 209 just for the colorful picture. Although I disagree on his lynch pool.

I have plenty of pictures. And all the links to MLP: FiM episodes. If you haven't watched those you really should, its one of the biggest surprise kids TV shows since Total Drama Island.

@Rainbow: Why are you not willing to consider anyone else's vote?

No one else is making much of an attempt in this game if we remove what went down between Yank and Hez. We have had a continual promise of a case from HH, the avas case from KKN which almost annoys me more then is a tell as I think more since he misses all the possible points I see for the nullest of nulls, there is also the case of... well... hrmm... I actually don't think anyother pony has made a case this game. I may be all for friendship, but they have to make some sort of effort for me not to just consider them off in their own world and needing direction, which I am all to willing to give.

Besides, look at the wagons we got. Yank, HH, KKN and HEZ? I mean, lets throw dice while we are at it.

Shit why is the pressure on Yank going away. What the hell, people. KKN is town and TO is possibly town too. Neither of them are anyone I'd feel comfortable lynching at this point.

I actually agree with everything but Yank, who really hasn't responded like anypony I have ever seen who is scum being throttled by a strong personality, at least in his followup posts to the inital attack. Maybe I have a wrong read here due to that type of play being one area I personally avoid getting into so my mindset misses some tells there, but if he is scum then he made some very risky plays.

@Rainbow: Why is Yank town?

I think the first thing that got me sided with Yank was his response to the questions from Hez, which are near mirror images of what I think the "correct" ones are.

When he got attacked though, he firmly stood his ground and didn't give up what his beliefs were, despite the multiple lifelines that I was trying to throw him in order to stop the continual back and forth that was going on. Attacking Hez was probably about the hardest thing that Yank could have done in that situation, especially when I was opening the doors for a KKN wagon and he never even slightly bit on it. Almost every single one of his posts are worded in ways that do nothing to try and convince people to move off of him, and all set him up to have to spend a long period of time digging out of holes as he continued to attack Hez and CA, who were regarded for the most part as town, instead of going for anypony that may possibly be construed as an easy target. I mean, you saw me take almost ten pages of constant poking to get him to give up what was a complete dead end for him. I just dont see scum so unwilling to cooperate with me, and the only way I really can see Yank scum at this point is if its with someponies like Wicked/Vifam/KKN. Even then, its a bit of a stretch.

Best place for the vote for now. He needs a lot more pressure than he's been getting. I would feel great about lynching Yank but there doesn't seem to be a LOT of popular support for that.

We get a scum flip from wicked and I will reopen that book a bit more, but for now I think he just needs someone to keep him on the tracks.

[Rainbowdash]

@EVERYONE: How much support is there for a wicked wagon? How about avast?

I could get behind one of them. Give me until tomorrow afternoon to figure out which though, going to get sleep now as I have to be at work in six hours. A ponies job is never done I tell you.

[Rainbowdash]

Well, I guess I'm leaving because LC was just VLA and shouldn't have been replaced.

But it's been nice playing with you guys.

LC, if you EVER feel like you are falling behind get Friend back in here.

Question for Rainbowdash: why do you suspect el simo?

Lack of town tells. Honesty tell which may be dated, haven't seen that one applied since maybe 08, could even predate that, but it worked a bit then. I would be happy with something happening to him pending a flip just due to no reasoning existing for him being town at this point. Enough direct anti-connections exist though to the point where he is not a good day one lynch.

Wish Friend was still here so I could just sheep him onto Wicked or Avas. Heavily leaning Wicked at this point since he is one of those people who tends to ooze town tells, but he isn't in this game, which im not sure I have encountered in the past.

Vote Wicked

Lets get the game moving in a lynch direction now. I mean, Friend(ship) already determined this was the best lynch, time to take it.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm tempted to sheep Friend too. He was a breath of fresh air, and a townread.

I wasn't? Ouch

hmm avast or wicked

Wicked. I have a case made on him but I want an unbiased catchup post from him before I make it.

[Rainbowdash]

Hey bob, lets actually here a case from you before today ends. Something like case on Tarin and reasons for Yank scum? Yes? Ok.

For that matter why did you back off Yank-scum? What is your current view on him, and Hez, and the shift in wagons there? Also opinions on Wicked that transcend a two liner.

[Rainbowdash]

pony - not going to bother if you're going to discredit it anyway. already stated my case on yank.

That really only takes care of about half of one question. I may not be the biggest pony around, but I do know how to throw my wieght around if I don't get basic acknowledgement. Answer the other parts of my question now.

[Rainbowdash]

who are you again? No offense meant, but it's really hard to take you seriously. Maybe if you used appropriate pronouns that might help.

Im Rainbow Dash, everyponies pony, element of loyalty. I could care less if it bugs you that I talk like this, or post some pictures, this isn't even overkill. Its my playstyle and I can really get the job done as ive shown already with a few vote swings I have orchistrated.

You got basic acknowledgement. I see your request. But you discredited my case on yank so I don't really feel like doing much else on your schedule.

Discredited is such a harsh word, I prefer proved incorrect. Are you still acting on the suspicion that Yank is scum here, or have you moved on from that point to an extent? That and my other questions. One last chance.

[Rainbowdash]

Remind where you "proved" it "incorrect" please. I admit I haven't been paying the best attention to this game, but I only recall you stating that Yank was obvtown and that was it.

Few pages ago. Not the biggest proof in the world but it makes sense, ask CA.

Being manipulative isn't necessarily a good thing. You can lead the charge and still be scum. These threatening remarks are interesting, too. There's literally nothing you can do but push for my lynch, so I'm wondering what punishment beyond that you could possibly plan if I don't bow to your will.

First of all this is not manipulating. This is just convincing people that im right over what others say. I could vote you in a very pony way. Don't tempt me, I have something I have been sitting on for the entire game that im just itching to post because its funny.

What a waste of time this is. How about you drop your ego for a little bit and let's decide between Wicked and Avast. Deadline is approaching fast.

You can drop yours too and actually answer my questions. This is not as much of an ego thing to me but necessary data mining, well maybe ego a little, somewhat, 50-50. There is really no reason why you should be against giving your reads, especially with the rapidly changing state of the game. Where do YOU stand on Wicked and Avast?

[Rainbowdash]

So I said that I had something special planned for you ponies, and here it is. I had one of my friends Pinkie Pie do whatever it happens to be that she does best, and put together a musical invitation to the "lynching Wicked" party. Enjoy.

[Rainbowdash]

Wicked should claim. Votecount is still apparently deadicated to my honor and deadline is days away. Sad no one has commented on the singing invitation, she worked hard on that one.

Also there is a slight possibility we need to wagon Vifam instead here, stay posted for more on that front. He is hardcore avoiding this game.

[Rainbowdash]

Little under two days to deadline. I still say claim time.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote Vifam

This works better. Still don't really dig the avast lynch. After the last few pages I really don't see Wicked-scum without all of bob, Hez, CA and maybe even Tarin being town. Thats not something im overly confident on at this point, and I feel like a turnaround is starting to happen. The claim still may need to occur though since it is the only way that I see a non-Wicked lynch unless something major goes down here.

Also no. I do not want to 16 page mastin post where he responds to every single sentance with a paragraph. You do that and I will ignore that wall so fast it will be sonic rainboom fodder. If a post is more than one page, you are probably doing it wrong.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm sorry guys, things have come up I need to /replace out. It'd be unfair for me to keep stalling the game.

So this means deadline extension right?

@Hez - We are not lynching Yank. You ponies will have to drag me kicking and screaming across the finish line to make that one happen. Wicked who is a top read of yours is getting voted. Im trying to get Vifam voted who is also a top read. Move your vote where its going to contribute since your little statement vote or whatever it is won't help anypony here.

[Rainbowdash]

I will bite.

unvote
Vote Avas

Its either Avas or Vifam today, which one really doesn't matter too much to me since after that case, they both look pretty bad, and like possible partners.

[Rainbowdash]

@ rainbow, where did vifam come from?

Really?

Vifam is a mix of a necessary lynch for deadline, scum shot and informational lynch.

Most of what he did in the early game is just defending what his predicessor did. He is far more concerned with what happened to Yonzy and half attacking those who put pressure on that slot than actually scumhunting. There is a vote on Hez that appears to be based on Yanks case (which no offense was pretty poor), and after that nothing. Eventually he wants attention to shift off of Hez/Yank but doesn't mention what his current reads of those two are, it should be noted that he wants a shift to LC, bob or el simo. No attempt to distinguish between any of these three, or actually move a wagon is taken.

Then there are the really wierd posts. For example he calls CA town early, but seems to be interested in another town read (Yank) no longer thinking that CA is scum. This is the kind of stuff you are supposed to dream of as town, two at war town reads deciding they have been wrong? Its perfect beyond reason.

Then there is his case on I have no idea who that is incoming apparently. His little "oh noez L-1" post just makes my mane stand on end a bit as well. Something is seriously wrong here, he has coasted this entire game adding almost nothing, while continuing to work on a post, despite clearly having kept up with this game.

[Rainbowdash]

L-2, deadline in about 24 hours.

@avast

- Claim in your next post.

Oh and if Avas-Vifam are both scum, someone lynch el simo if im not around at that point.

@simo - Let's play a game! Bob reveals in his next post, he is an Innocent Child! Who do you vote? WHO DO YOU VOTE! Subtle hint - your answer should be where you move your vote to. Despite there being a chance for Bob to be scum here, the ship has sailed there and its a two pony race, neither of which is me for someone who I sure had a coy comment.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I will have some access tomorrow in the morning at least, maybe not actually near deadline, thats going to cut it close. I want the game to be able to breath for the time right before deadline though, also because I need to think about this claim a little first. My vote shows back up around 12-16 hours from now, most likely on Avas here.

@Hez - If anyone is playing with emotion in this game, its you and Yank. Bob is up there but nowhere near what you ponies have managed to pull off. Take some of your own advice here.

[Rainbowdash]

rdash.....why do you find avast scummy?

Thats a good question, and where my problems really are rooted right now since im basically sheeping Wicked who of which im not overly confident of being town. I would much rather lynch Vifam than avast, or wicked at this point. A few recent posts have made me do some Pinkie Pie-esq twitching as well with Bob saying VT is the safest claim, when its also the most common claim from town. Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more. Avas does make some sense as scum, but other ponies are more likely scum.

Vote Vifam

This may be more figurative then anything else since I doubt the support shows, but nothing more would I like than to just lynch him right now.

[Rainbowdash]

Bob - Why do you think a vanilla claim is a scumtell?
Vifam - Where are you?
Simo - Move your vote.
All - If you could lynch *anyone* who would you be voting here and why? Note that Yank and Hez do not need to answer this question.

[Rainbowdash]

Also Wicked trying to justify the lynch of Avas because he claimed before he did just makes me want to slow things down and think more.

What's wrong with that justification?

It is hoofing the "lynch all vanilla claims" line which is one of the biggest failed policies known to ponykind. In this situation it feels like more of just trying to put the final nail in a coffin, but the nail is made of glass and you are trying to hammer it in with an anvil.

[Rainbowdash]

Vanilla claim is not necessarily scummy but it is the easiest thing to claim for scum.

Its also the most common thing to claim for town. Why point it out like you did?

[Rainbowdash]

hmmmmmmm deadline extention...

unvote
vote:rainbowdash.

vifam come back. now.

[Rainbowdash]

*glee*

So much pony.

Well played. Well played indeed.

If you could give me something to respond to it would be more awesome though. Also I probably have little to no access tomorrow and through most of Sunday.

I just really do not like most types of "lynch all X" cases, as vanilla is just one of those things that is hard to get a proper hoofhold on. Such scenarios do exist where a vanilla claim means its time to reevaluate where you are, and this one is giving me the twitches a little.

[Rainbowdash]

If you could give me something to respond to it would be more awesome though.

I didn't really care if you responded or not. My point is that there are many other pros to lynching avasthearties right now aside from the lynching claimed VTs policy. The fact that avasthearties isn't a town powerrole just makes this lynch even better and we shouldn't have to risk outing any powerroles or narrowing down the pool of players which could be powerroles for the scum (especially not on day 1).

I was actually talking to LC who as far as I can tell is voting me for thinking Vifam is scum or to just setup a very well placed pony pic.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm not sure I'm completely wrong though.

Rainbow is playing the fucking mediator.

Vote: rainbowdash

No you are still completely wrong. At least you are starting to turn around though.

Why is trying to break apart town reads a scum tell?

[Rainbowdash]

All scum in

Bob/Vifam/el simo/Avast/KKN, stunned if more than one out of that list.

Yank, Hez, HH, LC and CA are near for sure town, at MOST one scum.

Wicked and Tarin take wildcard spots. Want to put them town but can't quite justify it.

Guess who is ready to make another odd vote?

This pony.

unvote
Vote Bob

[Rainbowdash]

I'm going to be averse to buddying of any part. If I take the Yank/Hez to be town versus town, then it makes sense there is at least one scum who will try to look good from said fight somehow. That person looks like you.

It wouldn't be a good move though since it then requires two stubborn players to go find new targets, when it is hard to guage where they would end up moving to. The textbook mediation move, if you wish to call it such, would be something more along the lines of what bob did, where they call it town on town but make no attempt to really break it up, in hopes that they decide to more or less destroy themselves as scum is able to craft mid game mislynches. I will always attempt to break people who are fighting apart, to an extent regardless of my read on him since that is my personality, the game needs to be fun, and I will provide it through my personality, roleplaying if people choose to join in especially, and making sure that others do not create a disruptive environment. Mediator by nature, scumhunter by trade.

Also check out bobs first post of how he is going to scumhunt, after that read his iso. Discrepancies abound. I continue to be all wibbly over this lynch. Would like to see a dead Vifam more than anything else but that one obviously isn't going anywhere since no one wants to bus him.

[Rainbowdash]

Unvote
Vote Avas

Not loving this one at all though.

[Rainbowdash]

why did you vote bob, then unvote him and put your vote back on a train that is clearly getting all the pressure out of it that it can? then undercutting your vote by saying its not your favorite when we have a few days of scumhunting left?

I need the Avas flip at this point for my reads, and im going to continue to just be wrought with paranoia until I get confirmation either way on him. Bob does continue to bug me, then I look back at my notes and second guess myself. A couple flips should really be nice here for telling me if he is scum or town, since the ties are quite obvious to multiple large personalities.

Part of the hop is that I forgot there are 31 days in July so deadline was 24 hours closer and wanted a solid wagon to be up against wicked, but Bob is no longer really wanted for me. Vifam I would move to in an instant, but everyone who in past has shown want to move there has since then rooted themselves on other wagons.

Truthfull guess, its 50-50 for Avas, and I just want Vifam gone.

There is a little loop happening between Tarin-Wicked-Avas-Bob right now that has be on edge. Tarin backs off the Wicked wagon to vote for el simo, which makes Bob not like him which is actually the exact reason that I voted for Bob. Tarin is doing nothing to protect Avas who Bob thinks is scum in this situation with an el simo vote, which is confusing since Bob is voting Avas. Unless his arguement is that Tarin is abandoning her partners counterwagon for someone that is going nowhere, I dont get it. That is why I voted Bob, but again he is on Avas and that is just confusing me more. I need a flip here, and will take Vifam or Avas. I would be accepting enough to a Bob wagon, but he is a third pick.

Know my opinion just changed a few times in that post, but I really am not sure what to do here.

[Rainbowdash]

Your mediation and social gameplay scream scum, yet I have no idea how scum can write something like the above.

My mediation and social gameplay are some of my greatest contributions to any game, and actually allow me to draw NKs even when im reading poorly. Its rare for me to actually tear into a player, and it usually takes them breaking one of my core gameplay rules to do such. Happy games create happy players and that creates better play all around.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote Bob

Lets go

AJ

LC

[Rainbowdash]

LOL sorry rdash. i didnt see your last post >_>

[Rainbowdash]

I question hwo fast this bob wagon has grown. If bob flips town, I'm lynching avast tomorrow. Smells of counterwagon.

Well there is more than just the one counterwagon going on if you look at the way things have gone down. Its a counterwagon, but only to the Avast wagon as the wicked one has fallen apart long ago, Avast wagon still exists though. I did thinking on that comparing it to my town reads, and the town reads are more drifty on that wagon than the null ones who are intent on not giving it up. This concerns me since if Avast is town, the people who would be scum on the wagon are behaving as I would expect scum to behave. These are Bob, KKN and Wicked for those of you still playing along at home. Later members who are nearly for sure town are on and off the wagon, less sure. The early players aren't budging.

Now im really not too sold on Wicked, but I see the bob-wicked pairing being highly legitimate especially after the recent comments regarding the wagons from Bob to Tarin who would be town with a bob or wicked scum flip. Something smells wrong here, and im going to approach the situation from this new angle.

I do like the members of the wagon though. Its all people who I have at worst slightly below neutral and that really makes me far happier than I was on the Avas wagon. Still have time, still may reconsider, but I actually like the way this has happened as opposed to how other wagons have occured.

[Rainbowdash]

Your Wicked tance is confusing. You think wicked is scum with bob, or not scum at all?

Thats a good question and one im not really sure of the answer. I could see wicked as scum with bob being town, but the chances of that are noticeably diminished.

What if bob is scum? does that make wicked automatically scum? What's the difference between lynching wicked and bob?

I would be happy with a lynch of wicked almost purely off a bob-scum flip, and am pretty sure most ponies here would be if they looked at how those two have played off eachother this game. The difference is broken into what I want from the game and what I feel is correct, both land on the same side of the coin though. I would somewhat rather see wicked alive mid game instead of bob, just because I think wicked will either prove himself competent town, or flip scum that at very least semi-clears quite a few ponies. I also see more chances for bob to be scum here, and Wicked case is one of those which I have been continually iffy on yet still willing to listen to. If he is scum, I think we got a little lucky with the case actually getting picked up, which sends more paranoia of him being the wrong lynch without him being connected to others first.

[Rainbowdash]

Someone is going to have to explain to me eventually why being a mediator is a scumtell and not a playstyle tell.

I would be willing to vote Wicked over Avas at this point given my recent loop over to bob.

[Rainbowdash]

But why aren't you voting Wicked?

Well at this point its because he is at L-1, but Bob just bugs me quite a bit more so am leaving my vote there.

Also, what makes your mediator-ness a playstyle issue rather than the scumtells that HH brought up? What sets you apart from scum mediator and town mediator? (AKA: Defend yourself better)

Its not a playstyle issue as much as just a playstyle quirk. As you already saw, I probably am one of the biggest factors in the game not just imploding over the Yank-Hez debate since no one else actually cared enough to stop them from trying to kill eachother. Sure I am just as apt to do things like that as scum since it still makes the game more enjoyable, I am a pleasant pony despite competitiveness, but its in no way a scumtell for me to try and get people to be happy. It makes the game more manageable and less of a chore. Drama sucks.

On a quick skim of the RDash ISO there was alot of flip flopping near the old deadline.

I still am not sure what is going on or is the right move or anything like that and its killing me since I normally do not get this lost near a deadline. I just am missing my strong scum read right here, and too many of my slightly scummy reads are connected in a circular pattern to be able to validate assumptions. Bob-Wicked-Avas-Vifam basically HAS to have at least two scum in it though, of which Bob-Wicked and Avas-Vifam both work well. The problem is that Vifam also fits in with Bob-Wicked but nopony is willing to give that so much as a second thought.

Wicked needs to claim though.

[Rainbowdash]

Lets get the bob wagon back together now folks.

Or Vifam one would be good.

[Rainbowdash]

I have a harder time buying Avas scum unless I get Vifam-scum flip because it would require most of my town reads to be wrong first. Vifam works with next to everypony who is suspected, so is a very good lynch today.

[Rainbowdash]

HH you need to check yourself here. Even if Wicked is scum, and by NO means is he obviously town in this situation, we don't lynch him today given that there are a ton of ways he gets caught as scum, and that even one result which sure as hay better be on a middle ground player and not Avas or Vifam, is going to be ultra valueable as town.

Now for playing theory, its a little off center of what I would expect, but at the same time not at all surpirsing to be more paranoid of a miller claim than an average player. Cop is powerful, and its power is even more in small games as it can decimate scum. This means that there are counters which we normally see in the shape of a RBer or Godfather. Assuming worst case scenario from the stance of Wicked, its three scum with a GF and HH is fakeclaiming miller rendering his role next to useless. Either way, you have what I think is the second strongest investigative role in the game behind watcher, and its perfectly natural to wonder if someone is trying to get around it.

I won't vote Wicked today. Tonights actions will likely give us a semiconclusive result on what he really is, which means todays play suddenly becomes

Unvote
Vote: Vifam

Vifam for all you neigh-sayers out there works from both sides of the equation and people keep pushing it from both sides very sharply. HH is convinced that he is scum with Wicked, as well as quite a few other of you. Wicked has him as a somewhat high scum read as well and he works very well with Avas. Today we are lynching him, as he is scummy and actually is a very possible partner to all of our competing wagons.

For those of you who are going to complain about their little pony brains not being able to read this much
1) Wicked is not obviously town, but is a horrible day one lynch
2) Vifam is the perfect day one lynch

[Rainbowdash]

If any of you have a shred of trust left in me today, vote Vifam. That IS the right play.

[Rainbowdash]

The fact that I am having to post during work makes me quite the unhappy pony.

I am a vig, which is why I was happy with a blind Vifam lynch after the cop claim since if both were real there is at most one other town power out there. Not to mention that it keeps any RBer away from me. Also it is why I am trying to direct Wickeds investigation away from someone that I am going to kill (Vifam, Bob, Avas). I am 100% killing from this trio tonight. Wicked will not investigate any of these three. I have debating killing HH because if he is at all wrong, he is going to lose the game, more of a liability vig, but he just needs to actually consider the fact that he isn't right on everything.

Now, for the millionth time, lynch Vifam. The chance of him being a PR are going to at ultra most assuming Wicked is scum 2/10, same odds of him flipping scum if wicked is scum, and lower than if wicked is town.

Vifam is the lynch. End of story. Now finally listen to me before I stop becoming a pleasant pony over this.

[Rainbowdash]

I am a vig, which is why I was happy with a blind Vifam lynch after the cop claim since if both were real there is at most one other town power out there.

Alright. We can see a cop in the game. We can see a vig in the game. BUT NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. Vigs and cops are redundant. If this was a weakened vig (limited shot, not shooting every night), I can see it. BUT A FULL VIG AND A COP SERVE THE SAME PURPOSE IN A GAME.

Bugger all you need your head checked here mate.

A vig and a cop are entirely different roles, such as killing and information roles. This is opposed to something like tracker and watcher, or doctor and jailkeeper which don't actually add up. Not to mention vig is the most swingy of all standard roles. You are suffering from a very clear cut case of hoof in mouth disease though and have no idea how much I want to just blast you tonight in order to stop it from spreading. For ONE second here, consider the fact that you may be wrong about me, and about wicked. If you are so convinced of us too, why are you voting for the person I have been trying to get lynched on and off for the last 10 or so pages, especially when I really easily could have gotten my bob lynch here? Are you scum with bob? Maybe its HH-Bob-KKN! See I can play the same stubborn game if I want to.

Fact is, you NEVER lynch a claimed cop on the first day given that it gets results and will draw RBers away from the rest of the game. Its a mafia game, with a claimed cop. If the cop is real do you for one second think that there is no counter? Its a freaking powerful role and one of the biggest potential game changers, even one result from a confirmed cop will change the entire course of the game. A fake cop is going to need to keep spitting out bad results that eventually tend to end in them getting caught through them, or if they choose the RBer route, caught by game flow.

Still, I don't get the Wicked push. There is one line from him that makes me a little leary, but apart from that its probably pretty close to how I would have approached the miller claim as a cop. Ignore it and hope the game gets past it before people start dropping not cop tells. HH is just trying really hard to apply every post as a scumtell, you can do that to anyone. Im sure I can make a near bulletproof case on HH in a day if I really wanted to taking the same amount of "tone" assumptions they have.

Im going to stop posting here before I get more off tilt and out of character, but HH is really starting to set me off which is something I promised myself I wasn't going to allow happen.

[Rainbowdash]

/bah post

[Rainbowdash]

Oh, Rainbowdash, are you an alt, and would you mind if I try to guess who you are?

If im an alt I would deny any guess, feel free though. Some of you ponies have guessed some amusing guesses through the games ive been in.

Sorta happy with my play. Should have gone with gut N1 though. Glad I was able to get Yank off the lynch list though at least and came around on Tarin read.

[Rainbowdash]

If im an alt I would deny any guess, feel free though. Some of you ponies have guessed some amusing guesses through the games ive been in.

Sotty. (Since you're gonna deny it could you humor on why can't possibly be Sotty? )

What did other people guess, if you don't mind me asking?

Yeah I keep getting accused of being the ponies behind the Twilight Sparkle hydra. Was trying to get them to join mini 1234 with me, if anypony wants more pony. Go hit up that replacement list.

[Rainbowdash]

Hez would have made it deep although I would be surprised if he made it all the way, the cop being targeted should have made it obvious to everypony that scum lacked either a RBer or a GF, so those ponies targeted should be treated as semi-cleared, forcing him around the bubble of a 3P endgame entry. Also he really did fight the Vifam lynch a bit day one, he played a solid scum game though.

The game was pretty balanced in the end I think. The hider is a little evil with the presence of a vig and BG though, although it acts as a modified GF. Maybe this was a slight town advantage, but its not much of one. Scum should have killed the cop night one, I think not doing that was a major mistake, way too big of a risk if town came around.

HH needs to tunnel less, way less.

[Rainbowdash]

Scum should have killed the cop night one, I think not doing that was a major mistake, way too big of a risk if town came around.

How is this a mistake? If it weren't for a freak N2 accident this game would be going on for another month at least.

Its too risky for me I guess. Avas was going to be lucky to make it past D3, I really should have vigged him, and probably would have if bob hadden't taken a few shots at ponies. I would rather have just got the cop out of the way out the gate since I showed little interest in killing you over certain other ponies, where you could have tried to kill me N2 and hoped to get a second dead townie out of it.

N2 was very unlucky for scum, but I think you still made kills in the wrong order. Leaving the cop alive for a little at first created a scenario where you needed to kill him making it far more likely for no GF to actually exist if everypony was able to buy a Vig-BG was balanced against assumed tri-goon.

It wasn't a bad choice, I think it just left more up to fate then was needed. Being scum means you need to keep control over as many things as possible, cop investigation is a huge one to keep under control.