Mini 1211: Murder in Sicily [Over]

[Hikari Link]

I've clearly got a fair bit of reading to do. Apologies if it takes me a while to post anything of real content, but I'll try to have something by late tonight or some time tomorrow, depending on how long it takes me to read everything.

[Hikari Link]

Caught up. Expect a post from me within two hours, tops. If you anyone was debating going to bed or not, you might want to consider staying up.

[Hikari Link]

Caught up. Expect a post from me within two hours, tops. If you anyone was debating going to bed or not, you might want to consider staying up.

I REALLY hate your guts.

I was just refreshing all my 6 pages to check for new posts before I went to bed.

Ah well, I'll watch one more episode of Charmed I guess.

Apologies. This is going to take just a bit longer than I thought. I still have 5 players left to ISO and I'd rather not break it up, as I'm seeing new things even now as I'm going 1 by 1. I tend to build walls that would make China envious, so I hope you like text. (bonus points if anyone gets the reference)

[Hikari Link]

Link, do you think your wall will be done within another hour or so? I'd like to be in bed by 4 so I can keep my schedule of waking up at 10 every day.

I believe so, yes. I'm gonna try to rush it too without sacrificing too much quality.

[Hikari Link]

No need to rush it, I would rather wait till morning to see it in its full glory than rush you through it.

It's not just for your sake or anything. And it's really just a matter of condensing it down to key points where applicable. Trust me, this shit is gonna be big.

[Hikari Link]

can't wait.

Spoiler it by person.

I should be done in under 5 minutes. I'm on the last person now and almost done.

[Hikari Link]

I'm actually pretty surprised that I got caught up as quickly as I did. That said, it's still probably going to take me an hour or two to write and edit my post. I'm going to ISO everyone now in alphabetical order. At the end, I will then have my rankings in order of scum likelihood. I'll also ask that everyone read my signature and note the information there.

bobsnox

: You've got such a meager post count and you are hardly scumhunting at all. Now you claimed here that you play like this with an investigative role to stay under the radar and stay alive, but the problem with that statement is that your activity didn't increase at all once you claimed. Might as well get cracking if the cat is out of the bag anyway, no?

Furthermore, I was never really sold on the notion that you would have waited longer to claim if you were scum. L-2 seems close enough to L-1 that you wouldn't want to take the risk.

Also, your votes have been only on Whiskers and MusicNinja, whom I've got a town read and a null read on, respectively, but I'll get to that later. You never really made any attempt to explain the MN vote and then eventually went back to Whiskers, who really isn't even all that suspicious.

Even so, the fact remains that you have claimed cop and short of a counter-claim, a lynch on you is just dumb right now.

Friend

: This guy seems pretty legit. Now I'll be the first to admit that I'm not one for succinct players, because that is generally the antithesis of my play-style, I don't think it is at all indicative of scum, it just makes it kind of harder to read a person. It can be harder for scum to slip up when they don't say much and it's harder to discern reasoning from town, though admittedly not to a detrimental level. Though it is hard to ISO this type of player because almost everything they say is extremely high-context.

Honestly, I've got a town read here because most of the shit you've said is stuff I've agreed with, with certain exceptions which will be made clear. I also like how you've tried to steer conversation in the right direction, rather than let what you perceived as a town v. town argument squander precious time here, though I don't actually agree with the assessment that Substrike is town. But I'll get to that later.

Your logic here is sound too, granted the frustration there does nothing for the argument either way, as it could be an act by scum as easily as it could be genuine frustration from town.

Nothing else jumped out at me and like I said, a player like you is fucking hard as shit to ISO.

iamusername

: I was pretty much sold on him from the moment he explained his town read on Whiskers, though I admit to being wary of him before that.

These three posts in particular are incredibly insightful to me and they definitely gave me some things to think about. The first post was pretty close to my reads at the time, regarding the probability of scum on the Whiskers wagon, with the obvious exception of LTP. The second one brought the strong defense to Whiskers that I was thinking of myself. Scum simply aren't likely to look a gift horse (or pony, in this case) in the mouth like Whiskers did. The third one just showed a lot of thought. I didn't agree with all of it, but it definitely showed that you were putting the effort in.

Maruchan

: You kind of try to get in well with Panacea and Whiskers the entire time, but as I read you, I sort of just got a town feel. Despite this feeling, it seems like you've done little more than defend Whiskers, soft-claim, and push for a MusicNinja lynch, despite your post count. As a result, your only about null, leaning town for me. Seems like scum would have supported a Whiskers lynch, considering how easy it would have been.

In regard to the soft-claim, I really don't see why you are deciding not just claim in this situation. What about tomorrow makes it so that you have to wait until then to claim? It's looking kind of suspicious to me. But if nothing else, I think it's still reason enough not to lynch you today.

Monk

: He starts out by assaulting Panacea for not having a vote down, which I don't see as a scumtell at all that early on. There's really no need to start a potential bandwagon that could get out of contol so early on. Bad enough it almost happened with Whiskers, MusicNinja, and bobsnox as early in the day as those wagons nearly came into fruition. There's nothing wrong with a little caution.

The lack of content from him also has me keeping my eye on him. Also, post such as this or this really don't do a lot for you. It's been covered why it's suspicious by others, so in the interest of time, I'm going to leave it at that.

On the other hand, you've said a few pretty townie things, such as attemptng to hold off on a MusicNinja lynch until he is replaced and telling off Friend for needing to be prompted to discuss his suspects.

Due to the conflicting nature of these, I've got only a slight scum read on you.

MusicNinja

: From the one game I've played with him, I definitely think he should be more active than this, but he was the Doc then, so he could have been more into it as a result. What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together. I feel that either he is a bored Vanilla or overwhelmed scum. But given his posts, I'm somehow inclined towards the former. I could totally see him saying the stuff he said town. I mean, the guy did soft-claim Doctor in our last game at the mere mention of the role, so I kind of see him as down for some questionable shit. At the same time, I don't want to rule out the scum possibility though. He's pretty null for me right now and I'd rather wait for his replacement to decide for sure one way or the other.

noramp

: Putting bob at L-2 and not jumping on the Whiskers wagon early on seem like pretty town moves to me. Ditto for taking MusicNinja off L-1. If you were scum together, you probably would not have let it go on as long as it did. Same would probably been done by any scum if MusicNinja were scum, in all likelihood. Town read for you.

Panacea

: Well you certainly do use your vote sparingly, don't you? I can't help but think it's a bit suspicious that your only two votes have been on people that have next to no chance to being lynched. At the same time, this is a plus from you, since scum usually try for a mislynch. You've had considerable opportunity to jump on MusicNinja, yet you haven't. This pleases me. Particulary this one.

Still, I could definitely stand to see more of you. You question a lot of people's moves in a good way, but lack of activity and lack of general pressure certainly aren't helping. Having a vote on someone isn't a great deal of pressure isn't a great way to put pressure on people when wagons are forming all around. I'd think your vote would be better-used placed on one of your suspects. I doubt very much we'll see any sort of quickhammering this early on, since it can be kind of suspicious in general and I imagine most wagons won't get higher than L-2 until we can come to a better consensus anyway.

Scumhunter

: This motherfucker right here seems pretty legit. From his first real post, I was pretty much on board with everything he said. I get the feeling that he thinks very similarly to me. One of my favorite things from him was easily this post, because not long before it, I was thinking "Why the fuck do I think that Substrike is town? He doesn't really do shit, he's just kind of there." His scumhunting seems really solid, which is extremely fitting, give his name.

Substrike22

: First of all, I disagree with every vote he's made in the game. Granted, he hasn't hopped on the MusicNinja wagon, but he's been riding Whiskers so fucking hard that it's barely even relevant and at this point would probably just look more suspicious than anything. I've seen little of value from him and I get the feeling that he's scum.

Oh, and saying that defending yourself as town is a scumtell is total fucking bullshit. I fucking do it all the time. There's no reason a townie should want a lynch wasted on the only person they can confirm for themselves is town. I fucking do it all the time. Letting yourelf die needlessly is just fucking dumb.

Tovarish

: His entire case against Whiskers never really felt that great and the best he seems to bring against anyone is some petty shit that's barely even evidence, as seen in posts #232 and #384.

Whiskers

:First off, are you a fucking dude or a chick? Because that question has been nagging at me this entire time.

In terms of why I think you are town, questioning town reads on you and defending yourself both seem like town moves to me are both things I literally did myself in my last game.

My reads in order:

Scum
Substrike
Bobsnox
Tovarish
Monk
Noramp
Maruchan
Panacea
MusicNinja
Friend
Iamusername
Scumhunter
Whiskers
Town

The middle is sort of a jumble of order because I've got a few that are sort of really close. With time, I should be able to refine them, but I'm pretty firm on my top 3 and bottom 3.

[Hikari Link]

Just realized I forgot to vote.
UNVOTE: Whiskers, VOTE: Substrike22

[Hikari Link]

Just a few comments
First Off: I am forever in love with this dude and am glad he replaced in for LTP. I don't think we could have asked for a better replacement. I totally see why he was nominated for a scummie off of his first game.
Second off to clear some things up:

Maruchan

: You kind of try to get in well with Panacea and Whiskers the entire time, but as I read you, I sort of just got a town feel. Despite this feeling, it seems like you've done little more than defend Whiskers, soft-claim, and push for a MusicNinja lynch, despite your post count. As a result, your only about null, leaning town for me. Seems like scum would have supported a Whiskers lynch, considering how easy it would have been.

In regard to the soft-claim, I really don't see why you are deciding not just claim in this situation. What about tomorrow makes it so that you have to wait until then to claim? It's looking kind of suspicious to me. But if nothing else, I think it's still reason enough not to lynch you today.

In regards to me not being active enough, that is me trying to test waters. My first game on-site I replaced in and within 2-3 posts I was immediately everyone's Prime Suspect as scum. Because I trying being to actively gung-ho right into it. I decided to try a different approach this game and kinds of go with the flow a little at first.

I realize that. And since you are (apparently) a PR, I can imagine why you'd want to not get yourself lynched. But there comes a point where you are settled in enough that you can begin acting normaly. I think you are at that point, so don't go holding back.

MusicNinja

: From the one game I've played with him, I definitely think he should be more active than this, but he was the Doc then, so he could have been more into it as a result. What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together. I feel that either he is a bored Vanilla or overwhelmed scum. But given his posts, I'm somehow inclined towards the former. I could totally see him saying the stuff he said town. I mean, the guy did soft-claim Doctor in our last game at the mere mention of the role, so I kind of see him as down for some questionable shit. At the same time, I don't want to rule out the scum possibility though. He's pretty null for me right now and I'd rather wait for his replacement to decide for sure one way or the other.

I think he flaked out of 3-4 games in a row. I believe when I was looking through for games I might want to replace into, I remember seeing his name being replaced multiple times. I think after finishing the one game you apparently played with him. he became kind of disillusioned to the game.

Not from what I can tell. For starters this does not sound like a disillusioned man. Also, he hasn't had very many posts since he died in our game together, only one of which was in a queue. And of the remaining, all but one asking how many games he could be in at once were in this thread. In addition, from what he said when he originally came into our game together was that he has plenty of past experience on other forums.

Panacea

: Well you certainly do use your vote sparingly, don't you? I can't help but think it's a bit suspicious that your only two votes have been on people that have next to no chance to being lynched. At the same time, this is a plus from you, since scum usually try for a mislynch. You've had considerable opportunity to jump on MusicNinja, yet you haven't. This pleases me. Particulary this one.

Still, I could definitely stand to see more of you. You question a lot of people's moves in a good way, but lack of activity and lack of general pressure certainly aren't helping. Having a vote on someone isn't a great deal of pressure isn't a great way to put pressure on people when wagons are forming all around. I'd think your vote would be better-used placed on one of your suspects. I doubt very much we'll see any sort of quickhammering this early on, since it can be kind of suspicious in general and I imagine most wagons won't get higher than L-2 until we can come to a better consensus anyway.

I hope this doesn't cause another shitstorm at me for defending people but I am going to defend her lack of activity.

If you read through, you may have noticed me and Panacea were scumbudies in my first game? It ended roughly the day I replaced into this game, so halfway through the day of this game. About 2-3 days before this Panacea had mentioned in our QT thread (of said DIFFERENT game, js) that she recently got the Win7 Antivirus Virus on her computer and was having trouble getting it fixed, so for the last day of D2 in this game, through all of the 3-day night phase, and for the 2-3 days after the Night Phase, she was inactive, which was a 360 degree turn around from earlier in the game where she was active.

She didn't mention the specifics to you guys here, but I do believe she said something along the lines of having computer problems. I just wanted to clear up that for the span of about a week, she was using nothing but her iPhone (have you ever tried to play multiple-games form a phone? it sucks, I know.). Albeit this doesn't clear her for any other reason you mentioned or any inactivity since or before the virus, but yeah. Just wanted to let you all know the delio here.

Yes, I saw the virus thing and the mention of the iPhone. And I agree that posting via phone is hard. But reading the game and placing the votes is relatively easy and the fact remains that she could have placed her votes elsewhere. That that is really neither here nor their. I'm not asking for explanations of the past because I know there are reasons and I realize that it is impossible to change what has already happened, I'm simply making a request for the future. More activity means I'll get a better read on her.

Whiskers

:First off, are you a fucking dude or a chick?

Whiskers and Panacea re both female, I believe the rest of us are male.

Are you sure of this?

Hiraki. Whiskers did absolutely 0 scumhunting while defending herself. That was the problem there. Want to know how much scumhunting she's done since then? An OMGUS/Maruchan sympathy case on me. And that's your top town read? I buy that you find Scumhunter as town, but Whiskers?

1. I'm not Hiraki. That's an entirely different player altogether. As my signature clearly states, call me Link.
2. I realize Whiskers did 0 scumhunting. I did basically the same thing while I was defending myself. Sometimes you get caught up in your own defense.
3. Top town read, yes, but by no means does that mean I think Whiskers is the most competent player in the world. I'd really like to quote a game, but it is ongoing and so I can't. I'm not in it personally, but I did skim it. he play here seems very similar, though I admit I did not read it in-depth, since I wasn't playing.

Hikari*

See above.

[Hikari Link]

Whiskers

:First off, are you a fucking dude or a chick?

Whiskers and Panacea re both female, I believe the rest of us are male.

Are you sure of this?

How many guys do you know that watch My Little Pony and call themselves female?

I'd wager more guys than girls watch My Little Pony, myself included. But that's why I asked if you were sure. If she has indeed referred to herself as a female, I won't argue the point.

[Hikari Link]

(there is a spot under your avatar that says Gender: [insert option A or option B here])

And you'll notice Whiskers is lacking said spot. So if that is your only argument...

[Hikari Link]

Sorry guys, I've been asleep basically all day except for a small while about 6 hours ago when somebody apparently decided it would be funny to wake me up and I promptly checked the thread before going back to sleep.

[Hikari Link]

What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together.

But Maruchan says later that he's flaked. So he's posting here on MS, just not any games?

He has made just the one post that I linked. Look here. So unless he has been replacing into a lot of games via PM and only ever bothered to post in this one thread (which seems fairly unlikely), then Maruchan is either mistaken or lying. And considering how easy it is to check the information, I'd wager the former.

Still, I could definitely stand to see more of you. You question a lot of people's moves in a good way, but lack of activity and lack of general pressure certainly aren't helping. Having a vote on someone isn't a great deal of pressure isn't a great way to put pressure on people when wagons are forming all around.

Yes, you're right. I'm really sorry. I took a bunch of extra hours at work these past two weeks since I move into my apartment next week and get to start paying university tuition again. Work calms tomorrow, though, so I should have more availability (with the exception of Wed. when I move. ). I hate excuses, I'm really sorry. I'll do better soon.

No need to apologies. Life comes first and I understand very well the hassles of moving and college. I'm going through a similar stage in life myself.

@Substrike: A lot of my town-ish feel on Whiskers comes from the fact that I think he's probably just one of those reckless players, because a lot of his actions fit the "too scummy to be scummy," box. You definitely don't see this as a possibility?

I can tell you right now that if Substrike's got any sense, he's going to immediately dismiss that towntell as too WIFOM. Which isn't an entirely incorrect assessment. He may even disregard my meta read under the basis that meta can be changed to fool people. Though I'd be quick to point out that one who purposely throws away their town chances every game to try to improve their scum chances, especially in a manner that clearly doesn't work very well such as this, is a fool among fools and I wouldn't put Whiskers in that category.

And since you are (apparently) a PR, I can imagine why you'd want to not get yourself lynched.

That's the second time you've mentioned this, when we were lucky enough that no one appeared to mention it when it actually happened. I don't feel that this is good town play.

That's not completely true. His soft-claim was mentioned several times. And I can assure you, any scum worth his salt out there likely picked up on it the first time, if not the next few times it was slapped in our faces. He hasn't exactly been subtle about it. Better we get it out in the open so that he can be better protected tonight if he is essential.

First off, are you a fucking dude or a chick? Because that question has been nagging at me this entire time.

Whiskers are you a chick or a dude? O.o

As it happens, I've read Whiskers as male. The point, though, is that his gender is irrelevant to Whiskers's play-- correct, Whiskers? On the subject, though, Whiskers, would you prefer "his/her, he/she, him/her," or does it matter? When I played with Furry, Furry didn't mind, and I just used Furry's name as much as possible so gender never came into play.

Of course, gender in general is fairly irrelevant. But it's still a nagging curiousity that has been eating at me since I read that other game. If I honestly just played the brony odds though, I'd put my money on dude.

gender is irrelevant to Whiskers's play

this.

Furthermore, I think it's cute that you all use the terms "chick" and "dude." To quote Ouran, "I'll just call everyone dude and bro now."

This does nothing to sate my curiosity. It is an eternal mystery, apparently.

I would make a case, but my case would be on MusicNinja. and I think that THAT boat has been played enough already. I don't think I can squeeze anything out of his few posts that haven't already been said.

Do you have nobody else you can make acase against? If not, look at those that I or another have made cases against. ISO them and check the evidence. See if our claims hold up. Don't be afraid to double-check another person's work. You never know when you might be dealing with scum or if someone is mistaken on an issue.

Also I think the lack of a replacement from musicninja's spot has SOMETHING to do with the fact that A: its so much catch-up to read, and B: even if they do read it and replace in musicninja is the prime scum suspect of many players, so it is disillusioning to join a game just to be lynched, causing prospective joinees to not want to replace him.

Truth be told, I actually

wanted

that slot. But I figured I'd just take what I can get. I do love a challenge and I am something of an armchair defense attorney.

Still on board for a MusicNinja lynch, but I would like to at least see some acknowledgement of my monk case, even if it's just to tell me I'm retarded and wrong, since a scummonk would very much imply a townNinja. I would also like to see monk post again, where did he go?

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to appear to be ignoring you. I saw your case and thought it was quite good. It even put new perspective on my reads. But the fact of the matter is, I just don't see him as a top scum pick. I see him as a possible candidate later in the game.

I think we're all pretty pro Link.

Which in my mind is not necessarily a good thing.

Link, Iam, and Scumhunter seem to be consensus town-listed with each other and most of the other players. Iwouldn't be surprised if at least one of them is hiding a scum pm. If so, they'll be the scum caught later, if at all, so keep an eye out.

This is not an incorrect mindset to have. Always beware the hidden Chessmaster.

I like Link's catching up post a whole lot. Nearly as much as I like Scumhunter, in fact.

I am a big fan of Link as well.

I think we're all pretty pro Link.

No, Link gets off that list.

I wouldn't necessarily do that if I were you. I am a charming devil, you see. I'd highly advise our cop, assuming bobsnox is telling the truth, check me tonight. Believe me when I say the last person you want in a MyLo situation is an unconfirmed Hikari Link. Scum love to use the "too town" scumtell against me. At least, that's what I wanted to say to that, but it would have been too risky, as I will soon get into.

In reality, I just really wish you guys hadn't believed in me so hard, not that I hold it against you, because I have to claim cop right now. I was really hoping I could hold off on it for a while, but I'm just too damn good at coming off town and while there is next to no chance of me being lynched today, I can't take the chance that I will get killed during the night. The truth is I basically jumped out of my seat the moment bobsnox claimed cop. While I admit that there could be two Cops, I'm very much willing to bet otherwise.

I really wanted to save my claim until tomorrow to see if we got a fake read from bobsnox so that we'd have another confirmed townie, but there are just too many factors that could make that gambit useless. I could die during the night and you might immediately call for his blood, or worse, you could keep him alive on the off-chance that he is a Cop. You guys could call bullshit tomorrow under the belief that I should have claimed today. He could claim he got roleblocked, making my wait useless. There could be a Framer and he could be a real fucking Cop. Or any number of other things.

It's far less risky to claim now and hope I can garner some sort of protection from a Doc or Jailkeeper or someone. Even if I get roleblocked, I can assure you I'm still extremely useful to have around alive. Not to toot my own horn, but I am rather good at scumhunting, considering all of my experience until now has come as a vanilla townie. That plus I'm gambling that even if we don't have a Doctor/Jailkeeper/etc, the Mafia won't target me for fear of one. And in the worst case scenario that they do, it's still a Cop for scum trade, which I'll fucking take any day of the week.
UNVOTE: Substrike22, VOTE: bobsnox

[Hikari Link]

By the way, these are my true reads as Cop:

Scum
Bobsnox
Substrike
Tovarish
Monk
Noramp
Maruchan
MusicNinja
Friend
Iamusername
Scumhunter
Panacea
Whiskers
Town

Panacea is actually fairly high because of her persistence on bobsnox and bobsnox is actually the lowest because of his claim, but I couldn't really justify either of those very well while I was trying to keep that info hidden.

[Hikari Link]

As a rule, I do not like when players explicitly invite Night protection upon themselves. That could change, though, if we had a weak doctor in the game. Obviously. So, if Today were Softclaim Day (which it seems to be), this would be my declination to celebrate as of yet. One of you's is lying. That is all.

Any cop that doesn't invite night protection on themselves is a fool.

[Hikari Link]

And any clever scum would do the same.

Though your vote is on Bobsnox. If he swings and flips cop, you're confirmed scum... That being said... One of you has to die Today.

My vote is already on Bobsnox, right? Oh, good. Carry on.

Actually, you are wrong. He could very well flip Cop and it won't change the fact that I am Cop. On the other hand, he could (and probably will) flip scum and the argument could still be made that I am very clever scum and there is just no Cop. But there's very little reason for scumLink to try and lynch copBob, while there is considerably more reason for copLink to want to lynch scumBob or copBob. scumLink would wait until tomorrow if a night kill failed. I can assure you any paranoia you feel regarding me is just that. It happens every game and it's going to continue happening until I stop playing Mafia. There will always be someone who thinks I'm up to no good. And this is no accusal, I assure you, but oftentimes, those pushing for the possibility of scumLink are in fact scum themselves. True story.

What I find particularly interesting is that he is in no other games right now, yet is not posting here, even though he's been online just the other day to celebrate the town vctory in the game we were in together.

But Maruchan says later that he's flaked. So he's posting here on MS, just not any games?

He has made just the one post that I linked. Look here. So unless he has been replacing into a lot of games via PM and only ever bothered to post in this one thread (which seems fairly unlikely), then Maruchan is either mistaken or lying. And considering how easy it is to check the information, I'd wager the former.

Thats the point. That is the ONLY posy he has made in over a week, and before it the only posts he has made since this game STARTED, are in this game

What does that have to do with you claiming he flaked in other games?

And since you are (apparently) a PR, I can imagine why you'd want to not get yourself lynched.

That's the second time you've mentioned this, when we were lucky enough that no one appeared to mention it when it actually happened. I don't feel that this is good town play.

That's not completely true. His soft-claim was mentioned several times. And I can assure you, any scum worth his salt out there likely picked up on it the first time, if not the next few times it was slapped in our faces. He hasn't exactly been subtle about it. Better we get it out in the open so that he can be better protected tonight if he is essential.

I honestly still have no idea what you guys are talking about

Whiskers already brought it up.

I would make a case, but my case would be on MusicNinja. and I think that THAT boat has been played enough already. I don't think I can squeeze anything out of his few posts that haven't already been said.

Do you have nobody else you can make a case against? If not, look at those that I or another have made cases against. ISO them and check the evidence. See if our claims hold up. Don't be afraid to double-check another person's work. You never know when you might be dealing with scum or if someone is mistaken on an issue.

There are other people that have cases that can be made against them. But I want musicninja lynched today.

In reality, I just really wish you guys hadn't believed in me so hard, not that I hold it against you, because I have to claim cop right now. I was really hoping I could hold off on it for a while, but I'm just too damn good at coming off town and while there is next to no chance of me being lynched today, I can't take the chance that I will get killed during the night. The truth is I basically jumped out of my seat the moment bobsnox claimed cop. While I admit that there could be two Cops, I'm very much willing to bet otherwise.

I really wanted to save my claim until tomorrow to see if we got a fake read from bobsnox so that we'd have another confirmed townie, but there are just too many factors that could make that gambit useless. I could die during the night and you might immediately call for his blood, or worse, you could keep him alive on the off-chance that he is a Cop. You guys could call bullshit tomorrow under the belief that I should have claimed today. He could claim he got roleblocked, making my wait useless. There could be a Framer and he could be a real fucking Cop. Or any number of other things.

It's far less risky to claim now and hope I can garner some sort of protection from a Doc or Jailkeeper or someone. Even if I get roleblocked, I can assure you I'm still extremely useful to have around alive. Not to toot my own horn, but I am rather good at scumhunting, considering all of my experience until now has come as a vanilla townie. That plus I'm gambling that even if we don't have a Doctor/Jailkeeper/etc, the Mafia won't target me for fear of one. And in the worst case scenario that they do, it's still a Cop for scum trade, which I'll fucking take any day of the week.
UNVOTE: Substrike22, VOTE: bobsnox

facedesk
facedesk
facedesk
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facedesk

I thought I said if there is a cop out there, to not CC bob.

You did say that. That doesn't make it the correct move. It just makes it what you think is the correct move. And I would have agreed if I hadn't been turned into a huge target.

Also, I love the way this is done. "Hey everyone I know you all love me and trust me but you really shouldn't!!!! Oh by the way since you all adore me I'm the Cop. Lets kill bob."

Too opportunistic for my likings.

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]
Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.

Well, Maruchan, your softclaim is that you said "I'll claim tomorrow!"
I figure you're probably a cop. Since we have two cop claims already, I figure I can just go ahead and say it out loud, what I think.

I highly doubt we have 2-3 cops. I've got a theory about that which I was trying to keep under my hat until he claims. I was thinking that if bobsnox is Cop and died tonight, he would claim Doctor and say that he had placed his protection elsewhere. So if bobsnox does flip Cop, Maruchan is my top pick. Unless he wants to go ahead and claim something else. If he flips scum, I have a couple theories that I would rather keep quiet for now.

... saying I would be willing to claim tomorrow is softclaiming?

good to know for future reference.

It is. Scum aren't going to claim and vanilla townies don't need to claim. It's assumed by default that everyone claims vanilla townie.

Oh and, as I said earlier, I won't make any confirmations either way on what my role is. WHy?

if I AM a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to confirm it, because I am then in danger.
if I am NOT a (insert role you want to believe I am here) I don't want to deny it because while it is still a possibility the scum have to decide tonight whether or not I am worth their attention in either rolecoping, roleblocking, or killing. Which would save a REAL (insert role you want to believe I am here) from being rolecopped, roleblocked, or killed.

So on that note I will commence promptly ignoring any hypothesizing on the topic of my role PM.

You can say that, but if you are willing to claim tomorrow, that implies that your shit is dependent on Night 1. It looks like you could be scum setting the stage for a fake claim tomorrow. Just putting it out there.

So, that was a softclaim for VT?

No, I understand WHY. Just, making the softclaim in the first place makes us (me) curious. Besides, you said you'd reveal it tomorrow, assuming you're still alive.

When I said I would I meant like along the liens if its required/asked and I feel the situation warrants it. I won't just go at the beginning of the day "I'm a -censored-"

That's certainly not how it sounded before. If you are a vanilla townie, you really shouldn't try t pose as a power role just to distract the Mafia, especially when you don't make an actual claim. You can make yourself look like scum and distract town power role. Like I said, it makes you look like scum waiting for some sort of flip tomorrow in the eyes of the town, which if anything, decreases your chances of being targeted by scum at night.

[Hikari Link]

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

I think they are fucking bullshit and I certainly hope that isn't what I am. Of course, as long as my sanity level is only sane or insane and not naive, paranoid, or random, then it is easy to ajust for after the first mistake.

What does that have to do with you claiming he flaked in other games?

Looks like I was wrong sorry. I could have SWORN I saw his name in 2 other games when I was looking for games to replace into.

There is the minor possibility that he did, bu it seems overall unlikely, given his general activity level.

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Good point. Sorry, I didn't look at it that way. You can ask Panacea for confirmation, but when I do night kills I usually don't kill people based on how townie they are. I usually do kills that incriminate someone else, or that are unlikely to have any chance of having a doctor or jailkeeper on them.

As far as I'm concerned, only bad town fall for the former because only bad Mafia make kills that incriminate themselves. It's too WIFOM to consider that kind of kill as a tell either way, so best to just look at the content of a player's actions. And the unclaimed, I would have fallen in the latter half too an extent. But it's far better to keep alive people that other people are suspicious of rather than killing one at random. When there are multiple relatively unsuspected people and a claimed Cop, scum have very good chances of hitting any one of those and it is generally worth the gamble to try for one of them and then push for a mislynch during the day. At least, that's my take on optimal scum play.

Yes I like Link, yes I think that his wall was amazing and am glad he did it rather than just to lurk. No I don't think this makes him obvtown. It makes him a good player. Good player =/= obvtown.

Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.

Wanna know whats worse? Mis-Lynching the Cop D1 before they have a chance to claim (giggles at Panacea) (I'm srs loling irl right now at this).

Yes, that is worse. But that isn't the case here. I assume this is a reference to your last game, no?

Link, what do you think of insane cops etc?

Insane cops are explicitly non-normal

He's right. any cops in this game will be sane.

Really? That's certainly good to know.

[Hikari Link]

That's wrong though. There can be one non-normal mechanic.

There can? This worries me.

[Hikari Link]

I apologize for my ignorance (this is my first actual non-Newbie), but how could he flip cop and you still be cop? I mean, which roles would produce that outcome?

Because no rule I know of dictates that there can not be two Cops in the same game. For example:

Games which are otherwise Normal may still be more suited to a different Queue. For example, a game with a large number of Doctors may be better run as an Open Game (after review in the Open Discussion Thread) or as a "Hospital" Themed Game.

Technically, there could be a Mini Normal game with all doctors. As stated, it's better suited for a theme game. But the point I'm making is that multiple cops is possible. But again, as we've seen that bobsnox is pretty scummy, it's unlikely.

Non-sanity, is not based on the Mechanics; Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication. And DOES come under this explicitly non-normal mechanic: Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons". I don't really see how it can come under the
"New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication."
exception.

FoS on Whiskers, this seems to be a distraction tactic/wanting to save his scumbuddy.

I don't think so, but I could be misunderstanding.

Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.

Technically Non-Sane Cop is an irregular role and so I would think could be used. But this entire discussion is pure speculation and unlikely to get us anywhere. Unless you can say with 100% certainty that it is impossible for a Non-Sane Cop to be in this game.

[Hikari Link]

Wow... Okay, wow. Huh. I should read more mini normal games. I'll admit, I haunt completed Newbies for their entertainment value.

Bobsnox: What do

you

think of Link's counter-claim?

He thinks I'm scum, obviously. Oh, I do wonder what tales of magic and heroism he'll no doubt have for us. I am simply dying to hear it. Oh, if he's really clever, he'll even cop to being a fake and try to "out me" as scum bussing him to gain town appeal. But now I've gone and spoiled the story, haven't him? I'm sorry, I do abhor spoilers, but I simply couldn't help myself. I'm far more interested in who comes to his defense.

[Hikari Link]

Hardly. What I said was "Way to fucking paint a target on my back for the night kill guys." Who are scum going to target? bobsnox? No. He's probably scum and even if he isn't, any existing Doc would likely target him. Maruchan? Possible, but I have some reasons I'd rather not put out there just in case they are true. Hikari Link? *dingdingdngfuckingding* We have a winner. Not a claimed PR and very little suspicion on him? He's an excellent fucking target. The only other targets I can see are iamusername and Scumhunter.

Good point. Sorry, I didn't look at it that way. You can ask Panacea for confirmation, but when I do night kills I usually don't kill people based on how townie they are. I usually do kills that incriminate someone else, or that are unlikely to have any chance of having a doctor or jailkeeper on them.

As far as I'm concerned, only bad town fall for the former because only bad Mafia make kills that incriminate themselves. It's too WIFOM to consider that kind of kill as a tell either way, so best to just look at the content of a player's actions. And the unclaimed, I would have fallen in the latter half too an extent. But it's far better to keep alive people that other people are suspicious of rather than killing one at random. When there are multiple relatively unsuspected people and a claimed Cop, scum have very good chances of hitting any one of those and it is generally worth the gamble to try for one of them and then push for a mislynch during the day. At least, that's my take on optimal scum play.

Yeah I also like to keep the "obvtown" alive sometiems because then some players will begin going "If we all are so sure he is town, why hasn't he died yet". And I have plenty of experience of Experienced Players falling for the "He died because he suspected sometime who was scum" WIFOM trap. (See: Al Town Players, Game 1122)

Experienced doesn't necessarily mean good and keeping obvtown alive to make them think "what-if" is a double-edged sword. It can backfire just as much. It's all WIFOM.

Agreed. But it's certainly not a chance worth taking that the scum take it that way. You know what's bad? The fucking cop getting night-killed Night 1.

Wanna know whats worse? Mis-Lynching the Cop D1 before they have a chance to claim (giggles at Panacea) (I'm srs loling irl right now at this).

Yes, that is worse. But that isn't the case here. I assume this is a reference to your last game, no?

-nods and points at 1122 also-

Really? That's certainly good to know.

Yup really.

I'm not so sure anymore, but I'm also not really worried either.

[Hikari Link]

Hm. For some reason when I read your last post, Link, your voice in my head was that of Maximillion Pegasus from the old Yu-Gi-Oh episodes.

Maruchan, I totally missed that earlier! Yes, that was pretty unbelievably epic.

I was going for something a bit more British, but that will do too, I suppose.

[Hikari Link]

Non-sanity, is not based on the Mechanics; Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication. And DOES come under this explicitly non-normal mechanic: Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons". I don't really see how it can come under the
"New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication."
exception.

This is correct. There are no non-sane cops in Normal games.

Link, for the record, I agree with Maruchan that you shouldn't have claimed today, but what's done is done.

UNVOTE: monk
VOTE: bobsnox

Ideally, I wouldn't have. But it was bit risky to keep it under wraps given the state of things. As I said, I originally planned to wait it out for at least a day, but after weighng the pros and cons, it simply wasn't worth the risk.

[Hikari Link]

What risk, though? If you'd been targetted N1, you can bet we'd be speedlynching bob in the morning, so ultimately the outcome would be much the same as the outcome of you claiming today. There's no risk of you dying without the chance to out bob as a fake, because your death itself would out bob as a fake.

I agree. Quite likely. But I'm of far better use to the town alive than dead and I much prefer my odds of living Day 1.

[Hikari Link]

Wow this is crap. Of course scum would CC and trade 1-1 for the cop. He might even be a bomb. This is ridiculous and it was horribly timed/opportunistic.

Oh well

Yeah, I'm so sure what this is. You could've have been bothered to at least come up with like a real defense or something? Hell, you could even attempt to make some sort of last ditch argument for why you are Cop or provide some sort of crazy insight that would help the town. You're at fucking L-1. You can't honestly think real town would just dick around like this, then lay down and die, can you? Show some backbone, sir. At least try to keep the charade up.

[Hikari Link]

My defense is that your claim makes no sense

Yes, because it's not as though as I explained it or anything. Also, what say you to my original case against you? Why have you been so inactive?

[Hikari Link]

I will.
First I want to point out a couple of things. Bear with me.

Are you doing that right now? Cause I was gonna go to sleep, but I can wait.

[Hikari Link]

I'm going to bed now. If there is anything worth saying and the death has not been posted, then I'll post when I wake up. Otherwise, good work everyone. Let's keep the momentum going. If I should die tonight, just keep in mind the stuff I've brought up so far. Hopefully it can help.

[Hikari Link]

Dat fucking doc, bro! Monk is clean.

VOTE: Substrike22
This is open for discussion, but he is my top scum read.

[Hikari Link]

And that is why you CC when the scum claim your role.

vote: Substrike22

Apologies for being inactive at the end of the day was in a bit of a drunken haze.

LOL at the flavor Bub.

One question for you Whiskers: During one point yesterday, while there were 2 wagons on you + bob...

whiskers - MusicNinja is scum. he's making it clear

VOTE: Musicninja

to which you immediately respond with

Wait, wait, I thought

I

was scum. Why the switch, bob?

Vote: MusicNinja[/i]

Reads like coaching a bit and I'm reconsidering the possibility that Whiskers could still be scum after all.

In other news I just realized that iamausername is obv town. Not really sure what took me so long to realize it.

Obv town: Hiraki, iamausername, monk. (definitely more obvtown I need to reread though)

I'm not Hiraki. Different guy entirely. Read my signature. Interesting point on Whiskers though. Will keep it in mind.

[Hikari Link]

Apologies, Link, "Hikari Link" just saw your signature, MY BAD. XD.

No worries, bro.

[Hikari Link]

So, I'm totally happy with a substrike22 lynch, (in the first few hours of Day 2. Sppedlynching is cruise control for cool!) but why is he scum? Link, you had a scum-read on him yesterDay, and Scumhunter, you didn't give any reasons.

Um, the whole thing between bob & me? I didn't really care one way or another between a bobsnox lynch or a MusicNinj lynch. I thought MusicNinja ws scummier, but as you may have seen, (and as somepony called me out on) I went back and forth between them.

I've got a potential job lined up, so I won't be responding for at least the next few hours. Just thought you ought to know. Also want to hear Scumhunters story about Substrike. I'll recheck him when I get back if he hasn't been hammered by then, but presumably if he is hammered, it means my case held up.

[Hikari Link]

That's cool. Works for me.

Vote: Substrike22

.

No really, wouldn't it be cool if we lynched in the first few hours?

Anyway, I'm sure Sub'll have something to say about this when he gets in.

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.

[Hikari Link]

Speed lynching = only bad things can happen. We should wait for Substrike to post before the lynch.

I mean just think what if he was the doctor who saved Link, that would be a disaster.

Could happen, I guess.

[Hikari Link]

Don't really see the point to a claim, regardless of the role. Unless it would actually be beneficial or you are going to be lynched, nobody should claim.

Whiskers it'll be useful today. I just need xvart here in-thread in order to claim.

I'm intrigued. Unless it is a roleblocker claim, I don't see the point. And if it is, why do you need to wait for xvart?

[Hikari Link]

Link, you'll see once xvart gets in here. Patience is a virtue my friend.

Just trying to make sure you know what you're doing. Unnecessary claims are unnecessary. But if you've got this, I'll trust you.

[Hikari Link]

I'm PRETTY sure I've got this.

I certainly hope so.

[Hikari Link]

I was out trying to kill you.

Really now?

[Hikari Link]

So then he claims vig/scum?

In which case, I am sorry for deceiving you all folks, but please go read the first letters of my ISO posts #52-57, or game posts 457-472 for my real role.

I am a town jailer, and I jailed xvart, IE: jailed the scum preventing a kill last night.

(I asked the mod during the night phase, after I placed the breadcrumb, and he says this is a perfectly acceptable form of breadcrumbing)

Confirm Vote: MusicNinja Replacement

I have now finished my first ever attempted GAMBIT!!! PARTY TIME!!!!

Well done, good sir. Well done.

[Hikari Link]

Oh, and obviously.

UNVOTE: Substrike22UNVOTE: , VOTE: xvart

[Hikari Link]

Hmm, fucked up my unvote tag... This should go without saying, but don't get him higher than L-2 until we've all discussed it and deermined our top 2 scum reads. From there, we can have Maruchan randomly choose one of the two to jail tonight and try to stop a kill. By the way, in case there is a Doc, he should probably decide between Maruchan and I which is the better to have around, since one of us is likely to die tonight.

[Hikari Link]

Hmm, fucked up my unvote tag... This should go without saying, but don't get him higher than L-2 until we've all discussed it and deermined our top 2 scum reads. From there, we can have Maruchan randomly choose one of the two to jail tonight and try to stop a kill. By the way, in case there is a Doc, he should probably decide between Maruchan and I which is the better to have around, since one of us is likely to die tonight.

What this awesome dude said.

And I take it you approve of my claim?

I did say "Well done", didn't I?

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan, in terms of importance to the town, between you and I, who would you say is more important?

[Hikari Link]

Actually, I have a plan. I will not lie, I've got suspicion of Maruchan at this point. It seems almost too convenient that things should happen this way. So what I'm asking is if a Doc exists, please protect me and if Maruchan is the Jailer, then please jail me. I will target another person with my Cop power. If I get a report and survive, it means that Maruchan is scum, probably the Godfather, on a crazy gambit, but if Maruchan dies, it means I clear that suspicion, because I was going to research him tonight anyway to be sure it wasn't a ploy. In this situation, we'd lose Maruchan, but I would survive the night and we'd know for sure.

[Hikari Link]

Any objections to this plan?

[Hikari Link]

FOR EMPHASIS, So it doesn't get lost:

Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan jailkeeps Hikari Link. Works the same way as Hikari Link's plan, but risks getting himself killed rather than killing Maruchan.

I'm confirmed Cop, so this idea is bad.

[Hikari Link]

FOR EMPHASIS, So it doesn't get lost:

Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan jailkeeps Hikari Link. Works the same way as Hikari Link's plan, but risks getting himself killed rather than killing Maruchan.

I'm confirmed Cop, so this idea is bad.

WTF. Confirmed by whom?

Now that I think about it, I'm not. I was working it out under the assumption that I were Mafia and was trying to make it look like a Doc existed. Basically I was thinking that I would have purposely had no night kill, in which case xvart had no reason to say he had done anything because he hadn't. But then I realized that only works if I I had been trying to make sure it looked like a Doc exists for some reason. But upon closer inspection, I realized that there were potential other branches that it could have taken, had I been scum. So I am not confirmed Cop. Sorry, my mistake.

Okaaaay... then, how do wefigure out what is most likely-- how can we figure out how many scum there are? ;____;

Considering a Mini should have a fairly standard setup (it IS "Normal," after all), what do we go by? 1/4? 1/3? Is it too early to speculate scumteams (with 2 out of possibly four caught)?

[Preedit]
What if YOU are scum? You have us all pretty much convinced, but so does Maruchan.

How about the Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan Jailkeeps you, then YOU investigate somepony else. That way, if YOU get killed, we know Maruchan is scum, if MARUCHAN gets killed, we know there is no Doc, and if there is no kill, then everypony did their jobs.

Also, how about a Maruchan/Hikari Link scumteam? You two are the most greatest posters, both power roles, both outting scum on your first shots and both apparently brilliant. And now bussing.

So you're saying that:
1. There is no cop in this setup
2. If there IS a cop, this cop was an idiot and did not CC when there were two claimed cops.
3. Hikari Link bussed his cop-claiming mafia bud by claiming cop, with no planning whatsoever (as he replaced in)
4. Hikari Link is going to plan a DOUBLE bus, effectively screwing all chances of the mafia winning
5. Hikari Link will risk the question of "How are you still alive?" 6 days from now, when the doctor dies 3 days from now (since scum will survive, with or without doctor protection)
6. All of this was thought up by someone who replaced-in, so therefore had no way to plan to bus bob, and had to way to plan my breadcrumbing of jailer?


I SMELL SHENANIGANS!

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

[Hikari Link]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

Wait, explain the part where the logical step is that we use Whiskers plan because you are bussing xvart?

[Hikari Link]

It's possible, that one of these things happened, yes. Or another thing you haven't listed.

No, what worries me is the willingness with which xvart went along with it. And how conveniently you just happened to get the right guy. If he's scum, why would they send him out when he's a pretty high read for many? If he were town, why would scum target him? Either way it doesn't add up to well. But if you were Godfather, I'd never find out and you'd have little reason not to plan this whole charade out, considering how likely MusicNinja was to get discovered anyway. And by bussing him, you'd get major town cred.

Also, what does that breadcrumb even mean?

Whiskers, this is where that me out thinking myself leads to bad-results I just mentioned.

Anyways, Link brings up some really good points. However, all of his points revolve around the "my bussing him".

Which is a viable strategy, but still means he is scum. In which case we do Whisker's plan. I jail you, you investigate a random, and the doctor (if any) is on me. If I die, no doctor. If you die, I am scum (yes, this option sucks for you Link, but this is a fair trade-off for the town. 3 scum for 1 cop). If neither of us die, then I am confirmed, and you're still likely-town.

Wait, explain the part where the logical step is that we use Whiskers plan because you are bussing xvart?

Everything that has been proposed so far is that one of the following is true A: I'm legit, B: I am bussing, C: xvart is town who was idiot and actually claimed to be trying to kill me when he thinks I caught him, then backtracks when he finds out it was a lie.

I think C is highly unlikely because, A: Why would he do that? B: his predecessor was scummy as hell (hence the night action) C: his biggest defense is that he was scum-target? (lolno)

In which case Whisker's strategy is the best plan, because we then lynch scum, and we guarantee that I am not bussing my partner, or we do a tradeoff, scum for jailer.

I'm trying to find the part where it's preferable that I die rather than you. My way, if you are scum, we get three scum and we keep our Cop and if you are town, we keep our cop. On the other hand, with your plan, If you are town, you most likely die unless there is a Doc, which I find unlikely if you are Jailkeeper, though if he exists admittedly we keep both PRs. If you are scum, however, we lose our cop because I die for sure. So to chart this out:

Link Plan

scumMaruchan: Keep cop, gain a report (possibility of Godfather lynch)
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan: Lose cop, no JK, no report
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report (possibility keep both)

My plan stands to gain more if you are scum. Whiskers's plan stands to gain more if, and only if, a Doc exists. Otherwise, it's just a worse version of my plan. That in itself is an unknown gamble and you said yourself that I'm more important to the town than you, did you not? So it stands to reason that the plan that keeps me alive over you is the better one, no?

[Hikari Link]

I just realized my plus only works if we have a Doc too...

[Hikari Link]

Okay, I got it. We let the Doc decide which one of us is more important. He only targets one of the two of us, that way, the Mafia don't know which, so out of fear of the Doc, they may not target either of us if we are both town. Or, they could fail in trying. Or one of us could die. But that's likely to happen anyway.

[Hikari Link]

You mean, it seams almost too convenient that I would jail the person I spend all of day one saying I want lynched because I think he is scum, and end up finding scum? I don't see convenience in this just saying. I see a logical process that leads to scum.

It doesn't lead to scum. It leads to someone who couldn't have committed the night kill action, which is true regardless of alignment.

I am not actually fluent in bread-crumbing. I was browsing the site. clicking links in people's signature, as i do when I get bored, whe nI stumbled across THIS[/utl] topic (I've linked you to a specific post, but the lin kwas to the topic in general)

I meant you were fluent in breadcrumbin ... ]this game (as scum) and killed a lurker/flaker because I felt I could handle the people in the game and didn't want to risk a competent player coming in and unbalancing a group I felt I could manage as the remaining scum. I haven't looked into my predecessors meta but I'm guessing, due to the fact I've never seen his name, this was probably one of his first few games and the handful of posts he made isn't really indicative of alignment.

Everything that has been proposed so far is that one of the following is true A: I'm legit, B: I am bussing, C: xvart is town who was idiot and actually claimed to be trying to kill me when he thinks I caught him, then backtracks when he finds out it was a lie.

Option C is ridiculous because I would have to be an idiot to want to vig kill someone who had been softclaiming some PR the latter half of D1. Someone claiming one shot tracker in a cop/protection variant game is obviously lying; I just didn't expect you to full claim JKer. Speaking of which, if I had such a high likelihood of being lynched why didn't you just try and force my lynch without claiming? Doesn't seem like it would have been so hard to do based on what you were saying. Wouldn't it have been better to try and get me lynched first without claiming (something you seem to think wouldn't have been so hard) and if that failed then claim if you felt I was actually scum?

VOTE: Maruchan

So whether or not you were lying, why would you go along with that charade? Why not just say you made no such night action and note for him on the spot?

[Hikari Link]

I was trying to fish out a reaction from him. Since I didn't believe the one shot tracker claim and wanted to see what he was going to say that a vig targeted him.

This doesn't add up. If you were town, you'd obviously know that his claim was a lie. Why fish for anything when he's already deceived us by claiming you did something that you didn't?

[Hikari Link]

I'm trying to find the part where it's preferable that I die rather than you. My way, if you are scum, we get three scum and we keep our Cop and if you are town, we keep our cop. On the other hand, with your plan, If you are town, you most likely die unless there is a Doc, which I find unlikely if you are Jailkeeper, though if he exists admittedly we keep both PRs. If you are scum, however, we lose our cop because I die for sure. So to chart this out:

Link Plan

scumMaruchan: Keep cop, gain a report (possibility of Godfather lynch)
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan: Lose cop, no JK, no report
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report (possibility keep both)

Link Plan

scumMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Keep cop, gain a report
scumMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc):Lose cop, lynch maruchan scum, gain a report
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): lol town is fucked up the ass
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): lol town is even more fucked up the ass
townMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Kep cop, keep JK, no report.
townMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): Lose JK, no report
townMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): no report, LIKELY no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum
townMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): likely no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Lose Cop, lynch maruchan scum
scumMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): Lose cop, lynch maruchan scum
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): lol town is fucked up the ass
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): lol town is even more fucked up the ass
townMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): nobody/random dies, confirmed clear (me), keep cop
townMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): JK dead, or random dead, IF JK ALIVE: confirmed clear, no report
townMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): no report, LIKELY no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum
townMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): likely no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum


Meh I guess you're right they are relatively similar. The only difference is Whiskers plan gives us AN option of 1 cleared (banking on you and me both being town, which I think is the most likely scenario), and possible dead cop. Your plan gives us NO clears, and has no risk of losing cop.

I'm fairly certain that by the logic that I might not be Cop, it's literally impossible to clear you as long as you live, so the point about clears is moot.

[Hikari Link]

I'm trying to find the part where it's preferable that I die rather than you. My way, if you are scum, we get three scum and we keep our Cop and if you are town, we keep our cop. On the other hand, with your plan, If you are town, you most likely die unless there is a Doc, which I find unlikely if you are Jailkeeper, though if he exists admittedly we keep both PRs. If you are scum, however, we lose our cop because I die for sure. So to chart this out:

Link Plan

scumMaruchan: Keep cop, gain a report (possibility of Godfather lynch)
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan: Lose cop, no JK, no report
townMaruchan: Lose JK, no report (possibility keep both)

Link Plan

scumMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Keep cop, gain a report
scumMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc):Lose cop, lynch maruchan scum, gain a report
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): lol town is fucked up the ass
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): lol town is even more fucked up the ass
townMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Kep cop, keep JK, no report.
townMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): Lose JK, no report
townMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): no report, LIKELY no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum
townMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): likely no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum

Whiskers Plan

scumMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): Lose Cop, lynch maruchan scum
scumMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): Lose cop, lynch maruchan scum
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): lol town is fucked up the ass
scumMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): lol town is even more fucked up the ass
townMaruchan-townLink(withDoc): nobody/random dies, confirmed clear (me), keep cop
townMaruchan-townLink(withoutDoc): JK dead, or random dead, IF JK ALIVE: confirmed clear, no report
townMaruchan-scumLink(withDoc): no report, LIKELY no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum
townMaruchan-scumLink(withoutDoc): likely no kill, same situation as today with 1 less scum


Meh I guess you're right they are relatively similar. The only difference is Whiskers plan gives us AN option of 1 cleared (banking on you and me both being town, which I think is the most likely scenario), and possible dead cop. Your plan gives us NO clears, and has no risk of losing cop.

I'm fairly certain that by the logic that I might not be Cop, it's literally impossible to clear you as long as you live, so the point about clears is moot.

Thats why I said the only way I am cleared is if we are both town. In YOUR mind you know you're a cop( unless you're scum in which case I'm willing to throw in the tall now), so if you get no report, and you don't die, and we use Whiskers method, in YOUR mind you know I am clear 100%

In my mind, yes. But that says nothing to the benefit of the town. And since your possibility chart included me as scum, which couldn't happen in my mind anyway, thn you can see how the list is fundamentally flawed. It's results either all need to be determined by me or all need to be determined by the town.

hmmm, Town xvart, most definitely, ftm.

He's looking pretty scummy to me. I can see no reason why town would try to fish for a response when they could just as easily get themselves lynched.

Maru, I think it's likely that the scum targeted musicninja because that kill would give us no information and were banking on a doctor

I disagree. He was a suspect for many, so a mislynch would not have been out of the question. Someone everyone thinks is town like Scumhunter or possibly Friend would have been a better target.

I do not believe there would be a Doctor in this setup, Jailkeep/Cop combination is rather powerful imo

I agree. But there could easily be a Doc in a set-up where there is no Jailkeeper.

We're also going off of the assumption here that if either of us is scum, we would try to kill the other one. Which, as we're both smart mofos, we wouldn't. If I was scum, I would hope we had a Mafia Roleblocker, in which case I would have him roleblock you, and kill a random so you think you got jailed by me.

If a blocker existed, I would have been blocked last night. Unless you are town, in which case you would have been blocked. If I were Mafia, I'd kill you because it wouldn't implicate me in any way and if you are Mafia, you'd kill me because if I wasn't roleblocked tonight, you'd be lynched anyway.

Monk&xvart for remaining scum. (with possible 1 more). If monk had said "I think there is a doc and Maruchan is scum, and xvart is just being caught in Maruchan's cross-fire", I wouldn't have lumped him with scum. But the fact that monk both believes xvart is town, and believes my claim, comes off as uber fishy.

Pretty sure I said monk is town, so unless you are saying he's Godfather. I'm really close to just calling for a Maruchan lynch today, but that could end badly if he's just town fucking up. I think at this point, we should probably go with the xvart lynch and have the Doc and Maruchan on me tonight.

[Hikari Link]

This doesn't add up. If you were town, you'd obviously know that his claim was a lie. Why fish for anything when he's already deceived us by claiming you did something that you didn't?

Because we don't get anything from me just saying "I didn't go anywhere." He was fishing for a role claim so I gave him one he didn't expect, and put him in the cross hairs by saying "I'm on to you" to see what he would say about that.

Sure we do. We know either he's lying or you are lying. But when you go and say you tried to kill him, you had to imagine he had an ace up my sleeve. Why would he possibly just go in with some half-assed bullshit?

There are two types of mafia players. A: Those who dislike a 1-for-1 town for mafia trade, and B: those who like a 1-for-1 town for mafia trade.
Since there are more town than mafia, if we keep trading of 1 for 1, town wins, therefore, I like B.

You still dodged the important point I was making. If I was such a likely lynch today anyway why did you

absolutely have

to claim?

A valid point, but we're working on a way to clear him or kill him anyway, so you really don't need to waste the energy.

no thats stupid. we need to decide what we're doing in advance.

Absolutely not. Directing night town night actions is so scummy it hurts. You would just be able to work around it if you know exactly what is happening at night.

Doesn't matter if you can force them into a suboptimal move. Directing power roles can be pro as hell when used right.

we've already answered this. Either I'm town and he's scum, or I'm scum and I'm bussing him

OR you're scum and I'm town and you still have the out tomorrow post flip "well shit, he must have been the NK target."

Already considered that too. Could happen. But you certainly didn't help matters with your little Vig claim.

If I was scum, I would hope we had a Mafia Roleblocker, in which case I would have him roleblock you, and kill a random so you think you got jailed by me.

Or maybe a Mafia Roleblocker fake claiming town Jailkeeper...

So that still wouldn't explain why I wasn't blocked last night. Either one.

So you have no problem with the fact that rather than try to defend himself as such, he OMGUSed on me as soon as town started discussing the possibility of my or Link's scum?

For crying out loud it wasn't OMGUS as much as you wish it was. My vote is clearly based on your claim being bogus, your justification for claiming when you basically said it wasn't necessary to do so, and now I'm tacking on the need to direct night kills to specific people. Which makes it interesting that you did claim when a flash wagon didn't form on me but rather Substrike. When you flip scum you can bet your hat I'm going to be looking at Substrike since your unnecessary claim derailed his wagon while in the same post talk about the possibility of Substrike bussing Whiskers. Vote townie, FoS scum partner maybe?

How did I not see that? Yeah, that's just fucking dumb, Maruchan. It's not even remotely OMGUS no matter how you look at it.

Finally, if you really were a town JKer you wouldn't even be considering a town setup that had a town doctor because it would be so horribly town favored; yet you are participating in the conversation and talking about doctor protections for people last night and what might happen if a doctor chooses wrong tonight.

It does seem pretty unbalanced, but it could be true in theory.

Xvart what are your reads so far?

Incoming still. I've been a little distracted but I'll get what I have done posted before I go to bed and then the rest will come tomorrow.

Fair enough.

So what does everyone think about a Maruchan Lynch today and an xvart lynch if Maruchan flips town? Cause Maruchan is starting to look worse and worse. I may even investigate xvart some night Depending on my lifespan and how scummy he looks over town even if Maruchan flips scum. We can never be too careful.

@Link sorry for calling you hikari

No harm done. You corrected yourself. I was gonna let it slide because I know it wasn't on purpose.

[Hikari Link]

Wow Link, seriously? Lynch me first then him? Yes lets lynch the Possible-Jailkeeper/scum instead of the possible-VT/scum. That TOTALLY makes sense guys! Especially since neither of our deaths will tell you anything if it flips town. If you lynch me and I flip town he could still flip town due to there being a doc, or mafia NKed. If we lynch him and he flips town, I could still flip town due to there being a doc, or mafia NKed.

Or if we're both town, we lynch one the mafia kills the other, just so today was wasted.

HOWEVER, if we lynch him first, then he flips town, and you get roleblocked tonight, by your logic of if I was scum I would have roleblocked you last night, you know I am town, and therefore only have to lose ONE townie, to learn both of our rules, instead of two.

Link, you're very smart and a good player. You suggesting lynching me first just SERIOUSLY threw you in the scumlight for me. IGMEOY

Bad logic is bad. You look pretty scummy and I've always looked townie as fuck. As Mafia, all I'd have to do is say Doc me and I'd bet anything that if there was a Doc out there, he'd do it. Then I'd just nightkill the shit out of you with zero blood on my hands. But my gut says that you are running a scum gambit right now and there's really no reason to keep you alive f there is a doc. On the other hand, if you are a roleblocker or have one and didn't use it on me for whatever reason last night, you are dangerous to keep alive. By the way, that color-coded thing was unreadable.

[Hikari Link]

Link I have seen your name lurking on the bottom of the page for the last hour. anything to say? No rebuttal to my post I last aimed at you?

I've been working on something but also talking to my friend about other things, so I've been distracted. Also, was trying to watch the new episode of Breaking Bad and I'm really tired. What exactly are you referring to, if you would be so kind as to point out. I'm not exactly in reading mode right now.

[Hikari Link]

The post at the very top of this page, but its fine if you just want to wait till tomorrow. I was just curious what was up with your name and no posts, when you're usually good about replying. . I'm logging off for the night now anyways.

I already commented on that post though.

[Hikari Link]

As for my saying I only claimed due to your not being waggoned, go read D1 please. I told everyone, multiple times, I would claim today, already breadcrumb claimed as jailer, and called sbustrike scum myself for about 3 pages.

You didn't even make an effort to try and get me lynched by other means. And yes, exactly: you were trying to defer the wagon on scum bobsnox to let him live another night so you could then immediately claim.

So you're saying me substrike and xvart are scum. When I replace in, I vote bobsnox(my scumpartner), and push for his lynch until he claims cop. He is then un-cced cop, so I unvote him. You then say substrike (my other scumbuddy) begins a huge 4-page case on me, and I fight back with him, and we go on fighting for 4 pages calling each other scum, until SOMEBODY ELSE says they think its town-on-town. And then I (when ASKED) claim, just to save the guy who was pushing for my lynch?

Technically you weren't asked. I kind of said don't unless you were sure. Speaking of which, you've sort of been sure this whole time he was scum. I mean, granted, he was allegedly a high scum read for you, but the fact still remains that you were apparently like 100% sure you had hit scum. Not to mention this has been built up since yesterday, what with you saying you'd claim today, your breadcrumb, and talking about how the Jailkeeper should claim if he had anything all during the beginning of the day. In fact, now that I think of it, it's ALMOST like you were trying to bait a real jailkeeper claim just in case. I wouldn't be surprised if there was no claim if I had died last night, but that's not really relevant anymore. What's more, xvart replaced in during the beginning of the night, so you had ample time to plan out a rather intricate strategy like this if it were a scum scheme. Just saying.

Look, right now I think xvart is honestly looking more town, but unless he's gonna claim a power role, I could almost see a lynch of him today, a Doc on my tonight, and a lynch of Maruchan tomorrow. I just really like ur odds on Maruchan better, because this whole thing reads like a scum gambit to me, but xvart could be the fall guy or the sacrificial lamb to gain towncred.

There might have been more I wanted to add, but I'm really starting to get tired. I'll call it good for now and let it digest with people. I'm really interested to hear how other people take this analysis. xvart and Maruchan are free to comment, but I'm really more intereested in the people who I'm not calling scum have to say. Am I reaching or is this reasonable, even likely?

[Hikari Link]

Lesson Learned: Lynch All Liars should remain my strategy, and never attempt at gambiting again.

You shouldn't avoid gambiting. Just practice at it and think it through better. Still calling scum on you.

Anyway, I don't know what Link is smoking that he thinks Maruchan's behaviour makes any kind of sense as a scum gambit. This is pretty straightforward.

Explain, please.

Luckily for me, I can defend against all the points xvart brought against me.

Thoughts on the possibility of scum Maruchan?

[Hikari Link]

I believe Maruchan. I think xvart is scum. That's my initial impression at least.

I still don't trust it, but I'm willing to accept a lynch of xvart today. What about my assessment of Doc on me tonight?

[Hikari Link]

If xvart flips scum, I don't think it matters who is docced between you and Maruchan. I think you are both town and I think we would have the game well in hand.

What about if xvart flips town. And I really don't trust Maruchan. I mean, maybe it is just paranoia on my part, but I feel like things are going too conveniently.

[Hikari Link]

And yet you trusted me all up until I claimed? And even for about ten minutes AFTER my claim, until you let your paranoia set in.

Incorrect. I

appeared

to trust you. I didn't want to let you catch on to my suspicion at first, but I realized there was too much risk overall with my original plan, which now escapes me but I believe involved the Doc on me and me checking you at night. But I realized that would be a waste if you were town or the Godfather.

If Maruchan is town, there's no reason to believe we even have a doc.

You make a valid point. So how about Doc and Maruchan on me? That way if Maruchan is lying, I won't die, but if he's legit, it won't matter, since as you point out, it's highly unlikely a Doc exists if he's legit. Any objections?

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan should flip a coin to decide whether he targets you or not.

That way scum have to decide between killing you with a 50/50 shot of their kill being blocked or leaving you with a 50/50 shot that your investigation is not blocked.

If they know he's targeting you, they can feel free to kill someone else. If they know he's not, they can feel free to kill you.

If there is a doc, they should absolutely protect you.

The flaw there if he is town is that they can just kill him or leave him alive to be suspected by me. I don't want him as scum in a potential set up with no Doctor to have an excuse where he can stay alive if I die.

[Hikari Link]

Incorrect. I

appeared

to trust you. I didn't want to let you catch on to my suspicion at first, but I realized there was too much risk overall with my original plan, which now escapes me but I believe involved the Doc on me and me checking you at night. But I realized that would be a waste if you were town or the Godfather.

LOLOLOL "No what I have been sayign all game since I joined in about my reads was all one big fat lie. THey;re al lfalse. I just didn't want unwanted attention"

Seriously?
First you claim my play was scummy, when at first you "pretended" to love it!, then you call it scummy, and call me scum!, THEN YOU SAY YOU'VE BEEN LYING ALL GAME AND FOUND ME SCUMMY ALL ALONG?!?!?

No, I'm merely talking about from the moment you claimed.

How do people still think you're town? Lynch All Liars.

As I said, at the time, I was planning to research you, but I realized it carried too much risk. That's no lie. That's just not telegraphing what you are going to do to scum. lrn2logic

If Maruchan is town, there's no reason to believe we even have a doc.

You make a valid point. So how about Doc and Maruchan on me? That way if Maruchan is lying, I won't die, but if he's legit, it won't matter, since as you point out, it's highly unlikely a Doc exists if he's legit. Any objections?

I object. I am no longer sure you're really a cop. Maybe there was no cop in this setup whatsoever. If you ARE a cop, you just gut superly scummy, superly fast.

Oh, this is a huge surprise. I never expected you to turn on me./sarcasm What happened to:

Okaaaay... then, how do wefigure out what is most likely-- how can we figure out how many scum there are? ;____;

Considering a Mini should have a fairly standard setup (it IS "Normal," after all), what do we go by? 1/4? 1/3? Is it too early to speculate scumteams (with 2 out of possibly four caught)?

[Preedit]
What if YOU are scum? You have us all pretty much convinced, but so does Maruchan.

How about the Doc protects Maruchan, Maruchan Jailkeeps you, then YOU investigate somepony else. That way, if YOU get killed, we know Maruchan is scum, if MARUCHAN gets killed, we know there is no Doc, and if there is no kill, then everypony did their jobs.

Also, how about a Maruchan/Hikari Link scumteam? You two are the most greatest posters, both power roles, both outting scum on your first shots and both apparently brilliant. And now bussing.

So you're saying that:
1. There is no cop in this setup
2. If there IS a cop, this cop was an idiot and did not CC when there were two claimed cops.
3. Hikari Link bussed his cop-claiming mafia bud by claiming cop, with no planning whatsoever (as he replaced in)
4. Hikari Link is going to plan a DOUBLE bus, effectively screwing all chances of the mafia winning
5. Hikari Link will risk the question of "How are you still alive?" 6 days from now, when the doctor dies 3 days from now (since scum will survive, with or without doctor protection)
6. All of this was thought up by someone who replaced-in, so therefore had no way to plan to bus bob, and had to way to plan my breadcrumbing of jailer?


I SMELL SHENANIGANS!

Are you hnestly saying that my argument against you holds no water? Cause that's a crock of shit and you know it.

I agree with iamausername. I think this is a perfect time for a wifom JK choice. Although personally if xvart flips scum, I'd try and jail whoever I thought the last scum was for the perfect game chance

I liek this, and I had honestly thought about WIFOMing being on Hiraki, back when he still trusted me.

Back when he still thought I was town and suggested the whole "doc and maruchan on me".

I figured I'd jail who I thought last scum was, since everyone would think I was on him, then he could get a free report, and I could jail a possible killer.

Yeah, I'm sure that would have worked wonderfully...

Maruchan should flip a coin to decide whether he targets you or not.

That way scum have to decide between killing you with a 50/50 shot of their kill being blocked or leaving you with a 50/50 shot that your investigation is not blocked.

If they know he's targeting you, they can feel free to kill someone else. If they know he's not, they can feel free to kill you.

If there is a doc, they should absolutely protect you.

The flaw there if he is town is that they can just kill him or leave him alive to be suspected by me. I don't want him as scum in a potential set up with no Doctor to have an excuse where he can stay alive if I die.

Make you a deal. We'll do his idea, and if you die, I will self-cote and lynch myself.

No dice. Calling scum on your ass right now. Also, why do you keep suggesting that there are only 3 scum? I would've guessed 4, given the number of players. Scumslip, perchance? Doc and you on me and if I get a report back for tomorrow, you hang, end of discussion. If by some sorcery, you flip town tomorrow after I get a report, we'll lynch me, as it must mean I'm scum, no?

[Hikari Link]

I agree with iamausername. I think this is a perfect time for a wifom JK choice. Although personally if xvart flips scum, I'd try and jail whoever I thought the last scum was for the perfect game chance

I liek this, and I had honestly thought about WIFOMing being on Hiraki, back when he still trusted me.

Back when he still thought I was town and suggested the whole "doc and maruchan on me".

I figured I'd jail who I thought last scum was

, since everyone would think I was on him, then he could get a free report, and I could jail a possible killer.

Right fucking there in the bold. What else you got?

[Hikari Link]

Link, I think Maruchan is town.

And you could be right. But should we take the risk when it is unnecessary? What if there is no Doctor and he isn't? How will that benefit us? Confirming him as town is literally as good as an investigate.

[Hikari Link]

There are almost certainly 3 scum.

Just look through completed games with 13 players and see if you can find one with 4.

If this is true, then there should be no problems from Maruchan if xvart flips scum, right? Since he suspects me, then he should jail me, right? And as I said, Doc on me for a contingency.

[Hikari Link]

I agree with iamausername. I think this is a perfect time for a wifom JK choice. Although personally if xvart flips scum, I'd try and jail whoever I thought the last scum was for the perfect game chance

I liek this, and I had honestly thought about WIFOMing being on Hiraki, back when he still trusted me.

Back when he still thought I was town and suggested the whole "doc and maruchan on me".

I figured I'd jail who I thought last scum was

, since everyone would think I was on him, then he could get a free report, and I could jail a possible killer.

Right fucking there in the bold. What else you got?

Read the quote inside your quote.

I was talking to someone, and therefore in said situation, continues with the situation already created FOR me(not by me).

Scuhunter was making a scenario, with only one scum left. I therefore replied, TO SAID SCENARIO, in which there is only one scum left.

If you want to yell at someone for 3 instead of 4, go to scumhunter. not me. kaithnxbaigurl.

Ob-fucking-jection!!!! Your statement clearly says you had been considering it before I had declared my suspicion of you. Who's lying now, bro?

Hikari Link, you look fucking BAAAD right now to me. You seem to want Maruchan to die no matter what. Lynch him over near-conf-scum? Fine with you. Put him in a position where he will without a doubt be nightkilled? Sure!

If it's between him or me, it's going to be me every time, since I know for a fact my role and I don't know his.

Look. HEre we are. Lynch xvart. If townflip, then Doc on Hikari Link, JK on Hikari Link. If flip scum, Doc on Maruchan, JK on Hikari Link.

I'm willing to accept this, as long as everyone agrees to lynch Maruchan no matter what if I'm killed during the night or if I get a report. No amount of arguing can be allowed to overturn this.

[Hikari Link]

How is Maruchan going to be confirmed, anyway? Because Link will be blocked? That could be a scum roleblocker. Or a scum jailkeeper, indeed.

As far as I'm concerned, a scum flip on xvart is all the confirmation I need, and demanding that he jail Link is just not making use of the power we've been given. There are plenty of other people I would prefer to have confirmed than someone who is obviously town already.

It's too bad I suspect him though, so it's pretty likely that I'd investigate him anyway if he wasn't guaranteed to target me..

[Hikari Link]

It's too bad I suspect him though, so it's pretty likely that I'd investigate him anyway if he wasn't guaranteed to target me..

Right, so investigate somepony else. It can only benefit you.

You diidn't need to tell me that. I was explicitly referring to iamusername's proposed scenario. In a situation where Maruchan has given his word he will jail me, I'm willing to investigate anybody else.

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan has given his word.

You both agree to my plan where Maruchan blocks you, and the Doc protects one of you based on Xvart's flip.
So let's lynch xvart, and move along.

Link, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?
iamusername, you mentioned about it, but didn't answer the question, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?

I don't think it necessary. As iamusernane pointed out, it's just a way for scum to hide.

Mafia Tracker (sees who target visited), Follower (sees action target performed), Roleblocker, Godfather, I think these are all very possible. Framer is also possible, but I don't like it and don't think it would be included-- but that's personal opinion. Aslo, Mafia role-cop comes free with Newbie Meal purchase, why not here?

Also, let's be wary of Millers, as it is as likely there are millers as there are Godfathers.
Macho-variants also possible, but unlikely.

[PreEdit]
iamusername: Both are possible. We have to do the best we can.

However, if MAruchan is a powerrole and scum, we probably have another powerrole, perhaps a doc after all?

iamusername, Maruchan and Hikari Link have too much suspicion on each other. We may as well confirm one. We aren't using the Powers to the best of our ability, but if it will make them both feel more at ease, I say let's go with it. We have at least two out of Some scum. We easily winning. Worst case scenario, we thin the herd a little here. (Actually, worst case scenario JK gets nightkilled and there is no doc.) Best case, a townie gets confirmed. Actually, BEST case, A scum gets confirmed.

That's why you, Hikari Link, need to Cop somepony else. If you don't get roleblocked, (while it's POSSIBLE that Maruchan was roleblocked himself), then you still get a result and we lynch Maruchan. If you get NKed instead, it isn't any worse than if you got NKed and did an investigation on Maruchan. The roleblock will clear Maruchan enough anyway.

If you investigate and

are not roleblocked and do not die

, you get double win (we have your investigation, plus we lynch Maruchan.). if You investigate and

are not roleblocked but do die

, Town gets a single win for lynching Maru. If you investigate but

ARE roleblocked, and do NOT die

, you get a single win and we have cleared Maruchan.

I felt perfectly at ease until Link quit being smart this game

More like you started looking scummy. Doesn't help that you are calling me scummy when I've done nothing scummy the entire game. I always get suspicious when things start going too well.

[Hikari Link]

Link, we have the plan to get Maruchan checked out. The only flaw in it is that scum blocker might block him and he'd seem to be scum. He seems to be okay with that.
Move the fuck on. If he's scum, we'll know tonight.

Don't act like I'm the one not letting things go. Maruchan's the one who said I wasn't playing smart after I had already agreed to the plan.

Link who are your other reads?

You have my reads from yesterday when I claimed. Aside from Maruchan and monk, they haven't really changed much.

If maru Jked Xvart and xvart isnt scum then that means mafia didn't send in any NK

Or they targeted xvart.

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan has given his word.

You both agree to my plan where Maruchan blocks you, and the Doc protects one of you based on Xvart's flip.
So let's lynch xvart, and move along.

Link, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?
iamusername, you mentioned about it, but didn't answer the question, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?

I don't think it necessary. As

iamusernane

pointed out, it's just a way for scum to hide.

Maruchan

Quite right. My mistake.

[Hikari Link]

Maruchan has given his word.

You both agree to my plan where Maruchan blocks you, and the Doc protects one of you based on Xvart's flip.
So let's lynch xvart, and move along.

Link, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?
iamusername, you mentioned about it, but didn't answer the question, what do you think about negative utility roles claiming?

I don't think it necessary. As

iamusernane

pointed out, it's just a way for scum to hide.

Maruchan

Quite right. My mistake.

I think you got that British accent you were going for down.

I totally heard this in my mind as like some middle-aged English man in his high-backed armchair with a monacle.

Bloody smashing.

[Hikari Link]

I think it is a valid point that a setup with a Cop + Jailkeeper + Doctor would be strong town roles and as such with a real Jailkeeper its much more unlikely that we have a doctor.

MusicNinja's slot is an incredibly unlikely kill target. If we believe the Jailkeeper claim it implies it is fairly unlikely a Doctor would exist. As such, the only way a kill failed to happen is if the Jailkeeper jailed the scum, if we don't believe MusicNinja would be night killed (and lets be honest I highly doubt scum would target him for night kill)

vote xvart

I'm not completely ruling out Link-scum here. I could see a crazy gambit and some sort of Link-Monk team in theory but I consider that a huge longshot that I have no factual evidence for and I think its incredibly unlikely just thought I would mention it to remind myself not to 100% trust Link upon rereading if things get fucked up.

I say, lets lynch xvart, and go from there.

Maruchan you should wifom between jailing Link and not jailing Link tonight. Link, obviously cop whoever you want.

He cannot WIFOM, period. There is literally no reason to do that. If I get a result back, I am calling for his lynch. If he flips town, I'll take responsibility when we get to MyLo/LyLo by accepting my own lynch, but we simply can't leave any uncertainty on the Maruchan slot. As I've already said, if I'm not certain that Maruchan is jailing me, I am using my investigate on him. Even if I get back a town result, I'm going to assume Godfather. Scumhunter, you must understand that even though we gain a marginal mechanical advantage, we give the scum a chance to take advantage if this is a gambit on their part, and worse yet, you divide the town. If I don't know that I can trust Maruchan, I simply can't work with him, so just stop.

@xvart: I'm going to take what you say into consideration if you flip town about the roleblocker thing.

[Hikari Link]

I'm going to write this from the perspective that I was scum, so bear with me hear. I keep hearing arguments for me possibly being scum on the basis that I could have bussed bobsnox D1 to gain towncred. The problem there is that makes no sense. As I stated when I claimed, people were already starting to like my posts, so I had a pretty good in with the town. Furthermore, scum was already claimed Cop with no counter-claim. For starters, I'm not stupid enough to take the gamble that the Cop hadn't claimed already when I as town I wouldn't claim until D2 if necessary and at least Maruchan felt the same (also, his soft-claim could've been Cop and he could've been waiting for the bobsnox report to reveal, as I originally intended). That's an effective gamble of two scum for some paltry towncred when I already had towncred and bobsnox also had towncred. From there, the night actions would've depended greatly on what the special Mafia roles are. That's an infinitely safer play than claiming Cop, getting my scum partner killed, then apparently giving an innocent verdict on my scum partner, as people seem to be claiming.

Back in the regular perspective now. Now the above doesn't at all remove the possibility that things went that way, it just means that if it's true I'm a far worse player than I've been given credit for being. Now I admit that if xvart flips scum, that it is highly unlikely that Maruchan is scum, but I really can't see any chain of events last night that makes sense leading up to today. Let's look at what happened if every claim is true.

1. I got a report.
2. No night kill happened.
3. xvart got jailed.

1. Now for all of those to be true, that means that either a. xvart was scum performing the kill (unlikely because he had a great deal of scumreads on him, I think) or b. xvart was the kill target (unliely because a mislynch on him would've been easy) or c. there was a Doctor save (not unlikely if the Mafia came after the claimed Cop, but unlikely if a jailkeeper exists) or d. no kill was submitted (unlikely unless there was a scum gambit).

2. It also means that if there is a roleblocker he a. targeted Maruchan (which would mean option only 1c or 1d can be true) or b. targeted me (which means that xvart is the roleblocker) or c. targeted a random player (makes no sense wit a claimed PR and a soft-claimed PR) or d. targeted nobody (why would that happen?).

Now consider how these look from my perspective. 1a is something I just can't see happening and the same for 1b. I'll fully admit that it is possible, but they just seem so highly unlikely that I think you can see where my suspicion would come from. 1c seems possible to me, but I simply don't see the likelihood if Maruchan is legit, which I'll get into soon. 1d makes no sense if Maruchan is legit. Why no kill when they don't even know a Jailkeeper is going to claim? What possible gambit is there to be had and why haven't they made there move yet?

Now let's look at 1c or 1d deeper if Maruchan was scum. Now my assumption from the beginning has been that his claim was due to an unsuccessful kill on my last night as a result of the Doctor and that he never planned to claim if I died, only if I lived. I believe that 1c occurred, only that it happened with Maruchan as scum. On the other hand, I have considered 1d so that he could make his claim guaranteed, but considering that means leaving the Cop untouched for no reason, I really don't see this one as extremely likely anymore.

Moving on to section 2. 2a seems highly unlikely, since as I've said, I can't imagine 1c or 1d with a town Maruchan. 2b seems unlikely to me as well because it seems like a bad idea to have the kill come in with him even more so if he's already got another important duty. Putting all your eggs in one basket just doesn't make sense when a Jailkeeper/Roleblocker could exist in the town. 2c is unlikely unless they were shooting for the doctor, which seems like a far worse move than targeting either me or town Maruchan. 2d just doesn't even make sense.

So if you look at my thought process here, you can see why I'd be suspicious of Maruchan. 1a and 1b just don't add up in my mind and seem far too convenient to be be true. No Mafia Roleblocker scenario makes any sense to me either, so it seems unlikely to me that we will see Maruchan framed.

Hopefully this will help everyone see that I didn't just lose my mind or something and that I actually have a legitimate concern. I'm not even denying that everything could have just went better than expected, but to me that just screams of unlikelihood. If xvart flips scum though, I'll accept the likelihood that Maruchan is town. Especially if he is roleblocker, though even if he's not. In that case, then I'd say Doc on Maruchan (unlikely to exist, but worth a shot) and Maruchan on me. If I die or get a report, then a Maruchan lynch, otherwise, we accept his claim as legit and we can continue onward from there tomorrow.

[Hikari Link]

Okay...
Still bugs me that you go, "If xvart flips scum, I'll agree and say Maruchan is probably town! But if stuff doesn't work out in the night, He's scum!"
Yeah, I guess that was the plan. But you JUST SAID that you'd not be so suspicious if xvart flipped scum.

Anyway, w/e. Right now I want to move on to the night phase, and then to the next day phase, because I"m getting all kinds of confused and we're talking about what will happen later like it already has. Let's start the plan into action and talk about what will happen tomorrow tomorrow.

Me not being suspicious of him =/= it not being possible. And you realize that if I die, I'm confirmed town and there's no reason to think my suspicions are in at all suspicious. It's just that if Maruchan is legit, I can't possibly die while I'm in jail and I don't want to let him weasel out by saying there must have been a Roleblocker who blocked him when I've already established why I believe a Roleblocker is unlikely. And since I can't very well post that argument when I've died, I kind of have to post it now, don't I?

So we're 100% clear, my current stance on the three major issues are as follows:

xvart flips town: Doc on me.
xvart flips scum: Doc on Maruchan.

I die: Lynch Maruchan.
I get a report: Lynch Maruchan.
I get no report: Don't lynch Maruchan.

Negative utility claims: No.

I'm going to be gone until tomorrow afternoon/evening/night, so I just thought I'd throw all that out there in case I'm unable to respond to anything.

[Hikari Link]

Sorry, let me rephrase that:

However, monk seems to think there likely

IS

a mafia roleblocker, and he is "confirmed" town.
I'd say monk for Godfather.

Hm, Hikari (Link),, I thought of something. If I were a one-shot day-vig, whose kill didn't end the day, would you have me kill Maruchan?

Why would you put Link in parentheses? And to answer your question, no, I would not. While I'm certainly more inclined to believe he's scum, I'm not so close-minded as to rule out the possibility that he is town and I'm just paranoid.

Also, your monk for Godfather case hinges on the assumption that monk as town would have the exact same thought process as me regarding the Roleblocker. Could you clarify what exactly leads you to that conclusion?

[Hikari Link]

a. xvart was scum performing the kill (unlikely because he had a great deal of scumreads on him, I think)

This is where we part ways. There are several reasons why xvart might have performed the scum kill.

Perhaps his other partner has some other role to perform at night, preventing him from making the kill. Scum set up of Goon, Goon, [power role] is entirely possible, and if xvart is the other goon beside bobsnox, he'd be making the kill by default in that case.

I want to say that there's nothing preventing scum from performing more than one action during the night and also that the person making the action does not have to send the PM, as is suggested by [urlhttp://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/e7fAkmqYgD6wW]this QT[/url] from a finished game. Now that says nothing about this set up, but it suggests that at least the possibility exists and there are set ups that all this.

There's also the possibility that he was forced to make the kill due to his partner's absence; again, I know for a fact that Tovarish has been replaced in at least one other game, and he's not showing any signs of life here either.

See above statement.

And even if we don't assume that xvart had no choice but to make the kill, I still don't see it as particularly unlikely that he'd choose to anyway. MusicNinja was under a fair amount of suspicion on D1, this is true. But he was also the main competition to bobsnox before bob claimed, and towns often assume that they can't have had two scum in their sights on D1. Add on the fact that the case on MusicNinja was necessarily limited by his small number of posts, and it would be easy for xvart to assume that most of the suspicion would blow over quite readily.

I disagree. Even though the case against him was relatively small, I'd argue that he was still a prime target in many people's eyes.

@Mod

: I'm Hikari Link, not Hiraki Link.

[Hikari Link]

EBWOP: This QT.

[Hikari Link]

Scum self-hammer FTW? Doc on Maruchan, Maruchan on me. Lynch Maruchan if I die tonight.

[Hikari Link]

Here's to hoping Maruchan didn't actually jail our cop. We really really should have specified that he not jail Link if xvart flipped scum.

That just means I would've died instead. No result here. This aso means no Doc and i will die tonight, short of a scum lynch today. As such, I'm going to heavily analyze everyone again and get back to you within the next day or two. In the meantime, could we get a read list with detailed explanations from everyone. Might help in determining our scum to see their "thought process".

[Hikari Link]

Okay, nevermind-- two votes, both of them on this page. x_____x

I'll have to read Day 1 stuff before I'll be able to make myself suspicious enough to vote somepony.
Day 1, because Day 2 was kind of a Charlie-Fox.

If you mean clusterfuck, then I believe the correct term here is charlie foxtrot. Foxtrot is F in the NATO phoenetic alphabet. Thanks, Wikipedia!

But in all seriousness, I'd say you shouldn't ignore Day 2, because there very well could have been something of value there.

[Hikari Link]

Oh man, Whiskers messed up on the CF! Gotta be scum! Get 'em!

But I think I'll click a page of Day 1 at random, start reading there. also have a look at ISOs, mostly noramp's.

Any particular reason you are going from a random page rather than the start?

[Hikari Link]

Forgive me my laziness-- I don't intend to reread the whole game.

Perfectly understandable, but choosing a random page just seems weird. Why not ISO your suspects and just read in context where it is necessary? It seems like a more ordered way of doing things than a random page. But then, your avatar

is

Pinkie Pie, so I can see why you would be inclined towards randomness.

[Hikari Link]

iso # 33. Votes bobsnox but hedges his bets.

Then his last 3 iso posts ( #36, #37, & #38. )
Votes Xvart "I feel bad for him though".
Unvotes Xvart "Barring his confession maru does Not have a confirmed scum"
Says we should lynch Xvart but does not revote.

But more importantly than that, I remembered my OTHER favorite suspect, SUBSTRIKE22!!!!
Of course, upon looking, there's nothing NEW on Substrike.

Does Substrike22 have a prod out righ tnow? Does he need one yet?

He was prodded pre-night and hasn't posted since, I believe. Same for Tovarish, I think.

[Hikari Link]

I'm currently trying to catch up, a few pages behind.

I'm trying to decide whether or not it's possible that Link claimed cop, bussed his scum buddy, then gained an infallible amount of town credit in the process. As such I'm reading particularly carefully.

Cause I mean what could've happened was:
1. Link replaces in D1 and sees that Bobsnox is floundering and that LTP is also a high candidate on many scum lists. (his two scum buddies.)
2. The town is calling for a cop counter claim on Bobsnox on day 1, Link indulges us.
3. Xvart and Link decided in their scumtopic on N1 not to do a kill, or perhaps because they were both replacements, one simply didn't get sent as they hadn't effectively communicated.
4. They employ a gambit with the non kill, with Link pushing that a doc must've saved the kill, and that the likeliness of Xvart actually doing the kill (and thus being effectively roleblocked by Maruchan) was slim to none.
5. Xvart hammers himself to prevent an awkward situation from coming up with VCA on Link.

Anyone want to poke a hole in that admittedly outrageous theory?

Also I'm in the process of doing some important RL things that are kind of interfering. (i.e. considering joining the USAF) So, apologies, and if people have something to say on the above bit, I'll have answers and other scum candidates. Just needed to have something to let you all know I'm here and actually working at the game.

I'll start by saying that there is no way that I'd ever do that as scum. Just letting you know for future reference. That's not a gambit, it's just fucking dumb play.

Here's to hoping Maruchan didn't actually jail our cop. We really really should have specified that he not jail Link if xvart flipped scum.

Also, I think this doesn't make any sense what-so-ever. Though I did not like Maruchan and the feeling was clearly mutual, he was not an idiot. He would not have jailed Link given the scenarios that he was confronted with.

But he did jail me, so that's irrelevant. I got no result. Wasn't really a bad move anyway. Had I been scum, no kill would have went through. Not like there was really a better choice in terms of suspects.

alright im tracker and last night I tracked Substrike and N1 I tracked monk both went nowhere

Works for me. I don't buy the claim one bit, but as has been stated, this is basically a town win. I fully expect one of us to die tonight, but you should probably declare who you are Tracking so that I don't investigate them myself and increase our town-confirming speed. The reason you declare is in case of framer. And you know what would really suck? A Ninja.

So you agree with my feelings that one of the two claiming power roles are lying?

Yes, one of the two power roles is lying, I'd like to hear whether Link got any results

I wish people would read my first posts of the day carefully. I'm the claimed cop, of course I'm gonna bring my results out.

So I'm not really sure in terms of possibility whether or not a Tracker, a Cop, and a Jailkeeper is possible. I want to say it sounds unlikely, but I'd be lying if I said I thought it as implausible as a Jailkeeper, Cop, and Doctor. Point is, there's relly no reason to lynch noramp if he'll just keep confirming townies. It will be annoying as hell to wait it out if he is scum, but if he's not, I imagine both he and I will be night killed in the next two days. Given the current situation, I think Scumhunter, Panacea, or Friend are our best options for a lynch. And of those, I feel like Panacea has the greatest chance of being scum. Reasoning as follows:

Friend

: I've pretty much always read him as town.

iamusername

: Pointless for him to bring up that Mafia have no way to win at this point. Unless he's a Ninja or his assertion that all games of this size have 3 Mafia is untrue.

monk

: Confirmed town.

Noramp

: It's been explained what his fate is destined to be.

Panacea

: My gut says maybe and the fact that there's no escape for scum anymore tells me I don't really give a fuck. A perfect town win would be nice, but at the end of the day, a win is a win.

Scumhunter

: I'd be lying if I said there wasn't always a pang of suspicion here, but this comes with every player that looks extremely town. There's always gong to be the paranoia that there is some sort of boogeyman scum that is incapable of slipping up.

Substrike22

: See monk. Unless of course this set up ends up raping us with 4 scum...

Tovarish

: Seems pretty likely town for obvious reasons. Also want to point out that setting it to invisible removes the last visited date and presumably switching it back will create a new last visited date of when you changed it, so there goes that theory.

Whiskers

: Feelings on Whiskers remain unchanged since the beginning of the game. I could be wrong here, but again, I don't give a fuck. It's or win.

VOTE: Panacea
Sorry if I'm wrong, but you'll win anyway eventually, so don't even trip.

[Hikari Link]

We have two options right now. We lynch Noramp, likely winning the game and we leave in a small margin for the possibility that we lose, or we wait until he or I confirm almost all town and pretty much guarantee that we win.

So right now we've got 10 player. 3 are confirmed town, 2 are claimed PRs with the ability to confirm town, and 5 are unknowns. So if we lynched town today, I guarantee that I die or Noramp dies (but noramp is probably scum, so me), since the Mafia aren't going to want two confirmations a day. That leaves us coming into tomorrow with 4 confirmed, 1 claimed PR, and 3 unknowns. From there, we lynch an unknown and the PR dies during the night or a confirmed townie does. That leaves us with 4 confirmed townies, 1 PR, and 1 unknown or 4 confirmed townies and 2 unknowns. From there we can lynch the PR, a confirmed townie will die at night, and we can lynch the final unknown the next day. In an absolute worst-case scenario though, we'd lose if there was a Ninja among us.

On the other hand, lynching Noramp today means that we can end the game if he is scum, but we'll have to do some actual scumhunting since I'll die tonight and there will be nobody left to confirm town. It will leave us with 3 confirmed town and 5 unknowns. The confirmed are guaranteed to die every night and unknowns lynched every day, so it will progress to 2-4, then 1-3, which is MyLo.

Both of these are the worst-case scenarios, assuming crazy amounts of town error. The former is clearly the superior method, but the latter is faster if Normap is scum. And should anyone want to entertain the notion that I am scum, remember that I'll be confirming town daily. Oh, and should a PR claim that they were roleblocked at all, they should be lynched immediately, as they lose all usefulness the moment their power stops working and there is no longer any way to confirm that they are town. So I'm sticking with that first idea.

The following assume I die tonight and the town mislynches everyday and all results are innocent. Based on the plan I presented, I'm going to suggest a Panacea lynch today, Whiskers tracking tonight, and mystery investigation from me in case there is a Framer. Tomorrow I'm dead, we lynch Scumhunter and track Friend. Then I suggest an iamusername lynch or a Noramp lynch if he is still alive. If Noramp was night killed, we need a Friend lynch and if he was not, an iamusername lynch. Unless one of the "confirmed town" is a Ninja, we win. This order is what I consider to be the most likely to avoid tracking a Ninja.

@Scumhunter: I'm not confirmed town. I could have lied about being jailed by Maruchan and thinking bussing bobsnox was a terrible move. I'm not scum, but there's no confirmation that I can see. Tovarish is confirmed town too, since there is no way he could have sent in the kill PM while he was offline.

@iamusername: Technically, a ninja could still fuck us. Technically.

[Hikari Link]

We lynch Panacea. Link dies. Noramp still has to clear one of the four names listed above to convince us he is really a tracker. We lynch one of the other three. One of the NINETY FUCKIN MILLION confirmed townies dies. Noramp has to clear one of the two remaining unconfirmed. We lynch the other one. Another confirmed townie dies.

Like I said, possible Ninja in a Tracker set up. Still seems like a likely win for us. I'm telling you guys, follow the plan I set in place after my death and the odds of victory are extremely high.

[Hikari Link]

@iamusername: Technically, a ninja could still fuck us. Technically.

True. It's incredibly unlikely though, because if scum had a ninja, why on earth would they send the godfather to make the kill on N1?

You make a valid point. But by that token, why would you send the Godfather to do a kill anyway? That's just asking to get him tracked/watched.

[Hikari Link]

Do we even bother for a Panacea claim or do we just mechanically lynch until we win?

Lynch until we win seems fine.

By the way, if the day should end before I can post again and I inevitably die tonight, just want to say to everyone, good game, guys. Pleasure playing with you all.

[Hikari Link]

Goodbye everyone. Probably. Don't forget my plan. Just follow that and we should have this on lock.

[Hikari Link]

Bah! Go town! Mafia sucks! I like doughnuts. Bub Bidderskins is the best mod ever.

[Hikari Link]

Bah again. Really sorry about posting when I know I'm not supposed to, but I just

have

to comment that monk is now my favorite player because of his new avatar. Fluttershy FTW!

[Hikari Link]

Good game everyone. Excellent work, town.

[Hikari Link]

One mistake I did make was being unavailable for the NK, which xvart had to send it. That kind of hurt us when Maruchan jailed him.

Scum had to play great to win over the PRs, and with my two buddies being not very good (xvart did well with what he had) I didn't really have much chance.

xvart could have sent in a PM saying for you to do the kill.


ThHis game only became uber-town sided with Link claimed cop, I jailed scum, and we successful lynched scum #2.


If it hadn't been for dumbass shit lick Day 1 Day 2, scum had a chance.

Not sure if it was posted already but if so I am sorry, SCUM QT LINK PLOXXXXXX

Already posted and xvart couldn't.

[Hikari Link]

Whiskers, I had him trapped so no matter what he claimed he was fucking pwned.

I fakeclaiemd tracker saying I saw him out and about without mentioning WHERE he was. if he had claimed he was a doc, I would have then outted to have jailed him and proceeded with "Lulz he isnt scumtarget he was scumkiller".

I think I played off my fakeclaim2claim amazingly, as did Link, until he got paranoid (which was good thing if only he wasnt so sure of his paranoia against me)

It was the way you handled yourself when I started getting suspicious of you that really did it.

[Hikari Link]

-shrug- As you have defended, its how I play. I can't help it.

when you started derping i derped back and we spiraled in an epic tube of derpyness.

That's just the thing though; you can help it. It's called growing as a player.

[Hikari Link]

-shrug- As you have defended, its how I play. I can't help it.

when you started derping i derped back and we spiraled in

an epic tube of

derpyness

.

Now seriously Link, your suspicions of Maruchan were mosre suspicious than Maruchan himself.

I still am not entirely sure what that was about...

I disagree. Look how suspicious it was from my point of view. Here are the facts I had:

1. He claimed he would claim from Day 1, but wasn't killed at night.

2. There was no reason to kill xvart, which meant that he had to happen to luck into blocking scum. You know how unlikely that is?

3. His breadcrumb was later in the game rather than his first posts. Also, I don't trust breadcrumbs in general. They can be faked. That isn't to say I distrust them, I just take them with a grain of salt.

4. xvart wasn't making a terrible case of defense.

5. His response to my suspicion of him was immediate suspicion back in my direction, even though he had already admitted the unlikelihood that I was scum. Rather than attempting to show his innocence, he was trying to show my guilt, which I took as scummy, since I knew I was legit.

There was probably some other shit, but this is the main stuff that comes to mind.

[Hikari Link]

@Link/Maruchan: I think the suspicions between you two were just seeing monsters in the closet syndrome. Its always good to keep an open mind though and watch out for sneaky scum, but after xvart flipped godfather it should have been clsoe to 100% that you were both real.

I was certain. Relatively.

We should have stipulated that Maruchan not jail Link if xvart flipped scum really...

Nope. The reason I asked to be blocked was two-fold. The first was to make 100% positive. The second was to not die. And as we saw, that ended up rather nicely. Had I died, we couldn't have run that winning gambit and Friend might've got away unnoticed. I would've died for sure if Maruchan hadn't been on me, Normp might have gotten mislynched the next day, and his Tracker claim would've gotten him killed that night.

[Hikari Link]

I would've died for sure if Maruchan hadn't been on me, Normp might have gotten mislynched the next day, and his Tracker claim would've gotten him killed that night.

Actually, at that game state (had I still been alive) Maruchan would have been the best kill target because he can't target himself, there likely isn't a doctor in the game with a JKer, and the JK can block kills from two directions. Being the lone scum any failed death is a disaster. You just have to take your chances on the cop not checking the last scum and hope for the best.

I'm going to have to disagree there. A Cop could end the game with an investigation on scum or eliminate a suspect with a successful investigation, while a Jailkeeper only ends the game if he stops a kill from Mafia. Not only that, but if the kill was stopped when it wasn't because Friend was blocked, it could easily lead to a mislynch if the person was reasonably suspicious.