Mini 1221: Vegas Mafia (Over!)

[Twistedspoon]

Damn, late to the party again. Anything beyond page one Is a disaster for me
onto the game now. My catchup will be around shortly but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past, certainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind :p

Hikari link is a nice face to see again. IIRC he likes to be called Hikari :3

anyways

Looking at page #1

the obvious talking point I see is ryu voting DH for casting the second vote on timeater. DH responds well and explains his intention to get a reaction from timeater by applying pressure and then comes to the conclusion that ryu doesn't understand RVS. that's all very well, but does his failure to not understand RVS make him scum? I'd argue otherwise from looking at his join date and that even scum wouldn't chainsaw defend in RVS with only 2 unexplained votes on timeater. Ryu could simply be newb-town not understanding RVS mechanics here, and I think that is the case until I see more from ryu

@Empking

Who is the second best player here?

why are you interested in the best players.... A harsher player than myself would perhaps say you were picking NK choices...

Looking at page #2

Requesting meta citation on DH's playstyle if anyone has played with him before.

I always find DH town (see donner party mafia when I failed to vig him twice because i changed my mind at the last minute). He has good meta, although in my last town game with him he hammered the townie in Lylo (fishbowl mafia). DH isa a good player and I only expect him to have improved since then, even though he was class originally as well. (and DH's scum QT in donner party mafia is a very good read ifidosaysomyself ^_^ )

posts #27 from Empking and #29 from Hi Link are posts I could agree with in that Ryu doesn't seem obvious scum to me and DH's vote on him is perhaps slight OMGUS
then I see this quote

Uh...no, it's not? You of all people, nintendo, should know at this point that RVS votes with or without reasoning are null, and those on a bandwagon are meant to end RVS by pressuring the person on the other end.

Are you protecting ryu?

If RVS votes are null, then why is it not too early to call people scum?

And agreeing with someone does not mean I am protecting them.

Did you just forget about the fact that ryu's vote had absolutely no tone of an RVS vote?

Also, good answer on your last statement.

Timeater: I don't have a meta, except for the fact that I play quietly as scum about half of the time, depending on my mood, and I very occasionally am bored as town depending on the pace of the game. But my game list is in my wiki, feel free to review it.

look at the bold part. Out of all DH has posted so far that bolded part, is the silent killer. For reasoning I direct you to a very good article I read in MD which is useful for both scum and scumhunters
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =5&t=17461

one clause in particular is #14 and you'll see why it's relevant

14) Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town.

then look at the part of the DH quote I bolded

Also, good answer on your last statement.

and you see this rule of good mafia praise in work. And suddenly I feel like I can vote DH with a good conscience. 2 events (opportunistic exploitation of Ryu newb-town and the aforementioned subtle praise)

anyways, back to page #2

#30 further strengthens my newb-town read on Ryu

#36 is an accurate, but succinct summary that CES would be proud of

Hi Link's response is easily the most pro-town thing I've read all game. Scum just don't push town reads away from them like that. HL is taking Empking's praise with a pinch of salt and knowing that he cannot fully trust empking even if empking trusts him and that's what's pro-town

and then we get to something juicy

Not really, but you have a very sharp playstyle, so I was wondering.

He invokes rule 14 again >_>

14) Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town.

then look at the part of the DH quote I bolded

Also, good answer on your last statement.

Once could be seen as a coincidence, but Twice >:(
I don't remember town DH having a complementary playstyle at all
Tbh, this could be great buddying from DH as Hi Link is the biggest critic of DH with empking at the moment
If DH flips scum then the buddying near-confirms Hi Link as town. Scum don't need to buddy to each other at all, they have a QT :p
page #2 ends with DH wooing Hi Link by saying he's more experienced. ugh. I'd count that as a thrid time but I just want to move on now and it was a follow up of the second instance

looking at page #3

has it all ended? Has DH stopped being scummy?

Fair enough. I'm two months late saying this, but welcome to the site.

nooooooo
rule #14 >_>>>>>>>>>>
There's no need to welcome him other than buddying. He's two months here for zark's sake Gah!!

anyways back to page #3

#52 is a cameo of Maruchan. Not much info other than the promise of a subsequet post. Empking says he can see buddying in it, but afrter looking at DH, it's impossible not to see so much more buddying there. Maru has a mere twig of buddying in his 'nice to see you again' (which is understandable to maintain friendships at the first post of a game, not like DH who drags it into page #3) compared to DH's forest. Not sure what's up with that

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

This isn't a question, but the Ryu newb-town case is EXACTLY what I've been saying. Looks like we could be on the same wavelength here. We'll see

post #59 is annoying in that it's the second maru post where he promises content. having played with maru briefly before, i remember more macro images than content, but I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised :p

in post #64 Tick talk about DH, which is all very well, but I'd rather he mentioned other players too, so it doesn't just look like he's riding the easiest wagon. Not voting though, and actually wanting a response rather than a vote-parking I do find pro-town though

FoS: Maru

- Buddying.

I have links to every game I have ever played in on-site. Go to any game on that list that isn't still in-queue, ISO me, and read my first post. I start out EVERY GAME by saying hi to people I recognize. Before you FoS me for it, FoS the people in this game that did it on Page 1 also. I am doing the exact same things they are, the only difference is I didn't make it in time for page 1.

I don't remember other players complimenting and sucking up to people.

DH

like all the time here
you're seeing the needle rather than the haystack here Empking

onto page #4

Link is very good. Has been from the first game of his I read on-site.

Ok, this is buddying, my mistake
Empking's right in this one. there was no need to bring up this and shower Hi Link with more praise. (Seriously, DH will get jealous )

I'd like empking to talk about Maru's analysis as well as his buddying though

finally we have zdenek who seem's to share maru's view that DH V Ryu could be town V town
and then goes on to..... talk about Nintendo and nintendo alone
That put's my catchup post to shame :p

oh well, at least he isn't courting Link ^_^

(and ftr, I think Nintendo's play matches his meta of town. It's an interesting meta, but one I believe he sticks too. *see band mafia)

usually, I'd end a big post like this wth a reads list, but since many players haven't posted yet like Mysterio and DJ, and that I've explained most of my reads already (e.g. Link - town, DH - suspect etc.) I don't see the need for a reads list

just yet

[Twistedspoon]

looks like I was so caught up in the analysis I forgot to do the obvious

VOTE: DH

If you're scum DH, i hope you make your QT as amusing as the donner party one :p

[Twistedspoon]

but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past, certainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind

No "Good to see Maruchan" again? Are you guys really that upset with me for that game?

technically, we shared no interactions because as as soon as i turned up I hammered (whoops)

but good to see you again and no hard feelings

[Twistedspoon]

"I'm not the scummiest look at timeater"

you stand out more than timeater right now DH, and I don't approve of the deflection, but should you flip town I'd be more than happy to look at timeater in light of your flip. I've given my opinions on him already. His meta obession is a little odd, but I've never seen scum use it before as a weapon or contradiction device. Unless he's meta'd you himself there isn't much he can say on your meta really
I think he's genuine though and he believes he's caught scum, whether he's right or wrong. Timeater isn't high on my concerns list right now

[Twistedspoon]

well thanks for "skimming my case"

I "skimmed" your post and it was strawmanning

[Twistedspoon]

you skimmed it like you say. took me an hour to do that post so it doesn't make me all too happy

I'll go and Iso timeater just for you DH though.

[Twistedspoon]

so many dancing primeapes in this Iso. It's a nice small Iso though so this should be quick

Requesting meta citation on DH's playstyle if anyone has played with him before.

seems reasonable so far

communication is the town's strongest weapon and Time is trying to use that by getting the town to share it's knowledge on players.

Vote: DemonHybrid

Demon, a question for you. Why did you take it upon yourself to answer my request in #26 then proceed to not really say anything?

1. You say you dont have a meta but contradict yourself by saying you play quietly as scum.
2. "Go review my games" is not an adequate response to my post in #26 by any standard. So why even say it.

Post #28 has left me somewhat baffled.

@everyone but demon

Demon's initial reaction to ryuu could be considered townie response, considering his level of passion. But said passion only came after he was bullied into justifications. Demon assumes town is a certain way only and anything that deviates from what he conceives of what town should be is suspect. It doesn't seem like he's willing to account for the fact that ryuu might be a noob, or that simply that there is not alot of weight attached to the attack on him. There are countless variables he seems unwilling to account for. It seems fishy. His past few posts have been a little off. "Hikari and Emp are town" - "Link are you so sharp/experienced". Seems like a nice little detour for the pressure on him.

he votes you and provides 2 points. Yes these points are weak by themselves, and from the Iso I have no clue what Timeater's opinions are on any player but DH. That isn't helpful. However most of his tunneling on you can only be explained through wifom. ehy tunnel? My opinion is he generally believes you to be scummy; the key word here being genuine. Genuine = town. Anyways, I got the impression that he idssaproved of your vote on the prob-town ryu which isn't bad reasoning for a page 3 vote at all

#65 and #66 are really bad and full of fail. Post saying why is coming tomorrow.

is the last thing he writes, so Time can do that and address your needs

I'm not here to vouch for or explain any scuminess you believe Timeater to have DH; I'm here to round up the mafiosi and send them packing from Vegas

[Twistedspoon]

I don't feel like breaking down the rest of your post, which I agree with to an extent, but I really think that there isn't as much buddying as is being thrown around. But maybe I just don't perceive it that way because it has no bearing on how I view them in terms of scumminess. The fact that you are so talkative this game though has me partially worried, considering how much you weren't saying in that last game we had together. Care to explain this discrepancy? Could scumTS meta be to appear smart to implicate others?

you don't find buddying scummy is what you're saying? shrug
I'm talkative this game? well like yours, my playstyle is evolving so I don't see much of a discrepancy. I can link you to past town games of mine where I've been talkative if you'd rather
I think in our last game I lurked mainly because I was in way too many games at the time and was overcommited, so had very little time for that game. Right now I'm only in 2 games and am off school, so have much more time for this one. I also find mini normals more interesting than newbie games. That may be why I appear more talkative (although bear in mind that last post of mine was a catchup post so It's bound to be big)

imho, scumTS is far from smart. If you'd like I can link you to a pair of my scumgames where I get lynched D1 (they're also newbie games as well)
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=17314
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=18221

[Twistedspoon]

Damn, late to the party again. Anything beyond page one Is a disaster for me
onto the game now. My catchup will be around shortly but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past, certainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind :p

Hikari link is a nice face to see again. IIRC he likes to be called Hikari :3

Eat a bag of dicks, TS.

*munch munch

Y'know some people don't appreciate jokes anymore

*munch

[Twistedspoon]

UNVOTE:
too early for L-2 and not everyone's posted yet either

[Twistedspoon]

@Timeater: well what do you think of this Twistedspoon fellow?

[Twistedspoon]

@Time: what you have to understand hen reading post #95 is that Hikari link and I had played one game previously. In that game, among other incidents I played poorly, said little and had to replace out. As I'm sure players in this game can tell you (such as DJ) that isn't how I usually play at all, however this would have been the impression HL got of me from that game. In post #95 I tried to explain how my play was so poor in that one and how I am trying to improve now, but I'll admit it does look odd to anyone without the background knowledge that only HL or I would have

[Twistedspoon]

My FoS is pointing at Timeater atm, amplified by the very recent unvote while i was typing this.
Care to explain the unvote?

my thoughts exactly

[Twistedspoon]

My read on him changed. This isn't necessarily due to anything he posted, more of an inner realization on my part.

talk about your "inner realisation"

[Twistedspoon]

why not?

[Twistedspoon]

Hey Tick, what do you think of Maruchan?

[Twistedspoon]

I'm asking you why your opinion on DH has changed. you say it's nothing he said, so I'd like to know what it is

worst case scenario is you're backpeddaling, so it's up to you to explain to me why you're not (or at least why you are doing so)

[Twistedspoon]

how do you differentiate between what you think is bad scum and bad town?

[Twistedspoon]

don't replace out DH

[Twistedspoon]

you need to stay in to prove you're a good player then

I can vouch for you being a good player. You fooled me on numerous occasions in Donner party

[Twistedspoon]

I find it hilariously ironic that Maru is lecturing DH how to use quote tags but quotes Tqistedspoon and DemonHtbrid in his last post

but in all seriousness your vote on DH is terribad. If I recall correctly you said you thought DH and Ryu was "Town vs Town"
This contradiction/backpedalliing as noted, and you give very little reasoning behind your DH vote. It really just looks like sheeping or voting him solely for his VT claim the way your wall is set out
VOTE: Maru

[Twistedspoon]

you think claiming on L-2 is scummy maru?

what do you think of timeater, maru?

[Twistedspoon]

wow.

you guys post a lot. after skimming, why was dh at L-2 on page 4? why is spoon defending dh?

catch up later or wednesday(wedding tomorrow... not mine).

I'm not defending DH >:(

I just find Maru's vote on him incredibly opportunistic, incredibly poorly reasoned, incredibly contradictory, and incredibly scummy

believe me, DJ, I am one of the least likely here to be defending DH :p

[Twistedspoon]

I think TS has been goodposting this game. I haven't played with him that much, but his play has... changed. I can't put my finger on it.

ty very much

you've played with me before in there will be brawl (which i replaced out of after 3 pages or something because I really messed up and I played no way near my average. Don't judge me on that D: ) and the lastet UPick Band mafia (I was my alt account groundel if you remember)

[Twistedspoon]

Replace out

until next time my fine, feathered friend

[Twistedspoon]

just drop it Time & Maru, okay?
that'd be the cool thing to do

If DH goes, DH goes and that will take some enjoyment out of the game for me, but we want to make his replacement feel as welcome and just having a caps war with DH does no-one any favours, does it?

just let it go, man

[Twistedspoon]

ciao DH

[Twistedspoon]

this thread needs more Ryu and Mysterio

[Twistedspoon]

It's so tempting now to change HL's wiki page to say call me Hikari :p

but anyways, Anka is giving me better feelings about the DH slot already. Welcome

[Twistedspoon]

Post#20: @Nintendo: How is not having a reason to vote in the RVS (which has Random right in the name) scummy?

Even RVS votes have reasons.

But how is it scummy?

It's scummy because he didn't try to give

any

reasoning at all for the vote.

well it is the

Random

voting stage

reasons aren't neccessary in RVS

Now see, if I had JUST been called out for the DH vote, I would have JUST defended my vote and why DH is scummy. But I was called out for the DH vote AND voted on. I found

the more pressing matter is to prove my innocence

, because of the vote on me. And it would also effectively explain my vote on DH at the same time.

If you are town, town shouldn't have to try to be innocent, scum have to do that.

nice find

I've never heard that argument from town before. It's more self-preservation rather than scumhunting it would appear from maru

[Twistedspoon]

Twistedspoon of all people should know I ALWAYS have to prove my innocence, especially when I am town. My 1 finished game I was scum and endgamed for the win, the two times I have been lynched, one by twistedspoon, I was vanilla townie, and lynched for being the "scummiest player in the game". Its all on my wiki if you want links.

Appeal to twistedspoon?

[Twistedspoon]

vig: Maruchan

please tell me this is true

[Twistedspoon]

zednek, vig or not has just ruined the momentum of the game. He's probably gambiting :/

and maru's reaction is unusually town, although I won't be unvoting just yet

[Twistedspoon]

The only thing that I will say at this point is that Timeater is online and not commenting. His failure to react gives him massive scum points and he's a fantastic lynch for today.

point noted, but are you a vig or not Zdenek? Concealing info doesn't rest well with me right now

[Twistedspoon]

The only thing that I will say at this point is that Timeater is online and not commenting. His failure to react gives him massive scum points and he's a fantastic lynch for today.

point noted, but are you a vig or not Zdenek? Concealing info doesn't rest well with me right now

So, everyone should claim right now because you don't like that you don't know our roles?

no, but if you've hinted at being a vig then an explanation would be the best follow-up so we can just move on and stop dwelling on this vig claim

I'm not asking for massclaim; that's just bizzare.
Don't misrep me again thanks

ninja: what Ank said

[Twistedspoon]

I'm not asking for massclaim; that's just bizzare.
Don't misrep me again thanks

ninja: what Ank said

Sorry, that's my brain on five hours of sleep and eight hours of work...

no worries

If I had work I'd do it too

im vka morobn zde continues misrep watch it big post later

Is this English!?

Zde is somebody's name. That's why it looks problematic.

anything game-wise to add empking?

you don't make large/not small posts often do you? :p

[Twistedspoon]

im vka morobn zde continues misrep watch it big post later

Is this English!?

Zde is somebody's name. That's why it looks problematic.

What's a vka morobn?

I think he meant "V/LA moron".

or he's on vacation with a Mormon

one of the two :p

[Twistedspoon]

Timeater is on L-2. I won't be voting him yet due to me not wanting any quickhammers today before Ryu, DJ and Mysterio have caught up

also, happy Birthday ender

[Twistedspoon]

@Dj: a catchup post like Ryu did on the last page would be really cool. also, Time is at L-2 :p

@Empking: what do you make of Ryu's vote on you?

[Twistedspoon]

@Dj: a catchup post like Ryu did on the last page would be really cool.

same for mysterio and anyone else who has hardly been here

[Twistedspoon]

Otherwise, there are (by my count) 3 people who are willing to vote Timeater at this point, so a claim wouldn't be out of the question.

agreed

[Twistedspoon]

@Dj: a catchup post like Ryu did on the last page would be really cool. also, Time is at L-2 :p

@Empking: what do you make of Ryu's vote on you?

I don't make much of it. Maybe a m,ild town tell because I can follow most (but only most) of the logic. (I( expect town would either spout rubbish or purposely go out of tyheir way not to spout rubbish rather than the 20% rubbish of his vote.)

so you see the case on you active lurking? Do you agree with it

@Dj: why aren't you playing as well as you did in mathamathia?

[Twistedspoon]

So whilst we're waiting for mysterio and a claim from Time.... (this game has a lot of waiting imho)

@nintendo: what do you think of empking and zdenek?

[Twistedspoon]

ok, DJ does make a point in that a lot of the DH events were drama and such. As long as we see the best from him tommorow and from now then I shouldn't have too much of a problem with him

[Twistedspoon]

I don't know if it's just me but something about that above post felt rather... genuine

I could just be a sucker for players who admit their faults though, but my gut tells me Timeater may indeed be town after all. Not sure why he thinks Tick is scummy though :/

one question for time though I found when Re-isong him:

btw not impressed by the vt claim (obviously)

there is an amount of irony in this post after your recent VT claim. How do you justify your own VT claim to us when you yourself could not accept one from DH?

[Twistedspoon]

I wasn't saying I got something against vt claims, just that one in particular (because of the meta, he said didn't have time for TS, and just quoted me in his crybaby style. + Next post the misrep). I gotta be honest, I was REALLY tempted to say something like TRACKER or fakeclaim cop just to stick it to this game. But I knew that if I did that I'd only be lynchbait down the line. I WISH I had a PR this game.

i see now

the way it was worded in the iso made it look like you had a problem with VT, but I get you now

[Twistedspoon]

However I would also support a The Tick lynch either, as he posts very infrequently, and has played the good 'ol classic scum tactic of "Hold my vote until I see a good place to put it without drawing suspicion, while also helpign get an innocent townie lynched".

I would not say Tick has been an infrequent poster at all. Especially with some other players in the game who tick looks a frequent posting poster boy when compared to them (not mentioning names, but I can think of at least 3)

the vote thing is really rather suspect though, and I believe Empking tried to get Tick to answer this but Tick ignored him I think.

Tick, why are you witholding your vote? Are you not aware that
1) the vote is the town's strongest and only weapon, so we should use it (even if you don't think the player is scummy a little pressure can do wonders)
2) we are considerably far into the game and you should be able to have a read worthy of a vote
3) witholding votes is commonly seen in scum playing it safe or not wanting to be caught by VCA

[Twistedspoon]

that Nintendo....

I just feel he could do with a bit more pressure for some reason....
he just seems one of my foggiest reads

and Mysterio sure is living up to his name

[Twistedspoon]

Could you explain this a bit more?

Just my way of saying I'm not sure what to make of you. It's gut mostly. I don't know. I don't think you're a lynch candidate right now at any rate

and before I go to bed, I think zdenkek is town (or at least he was) because I don't think scum would want the attention or suspicion drawn to them that a fake vig-ing would cause. It could backfire badly and scum have nothing to gain from it, unlike a reaction-testing townie
I think zdnek is town as a result

[Twistedspoon]

lazy =/= scummy

I have seen many lazier townies than don in my time

just saying

[Twistedspoon]

you guys got through a nice 2 pages

anyways

Maruchan's meta-searching efforts are impressive although, not beyond scum so my vote remains for now. I have seen very clever and pro-town looking scum in my time who make big efforts to appear pro-town.
An example is http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3183795 where the efforts of the mafioso in making a vote chart gave me a very strong town read on the player in question, until she revealed that she did it in all games alignment-regardless, which dissapointed me a little.

Flea's response is rather dissapointing as he's still managed to avoid telling me any of his scumreads whatsoever. Imho, I don't know hoe Flea can ever be certain of who is scm anyways, so it looks like he'd never vote

[Twistedspoon]

oh, and Time's frustration at Empking and his playstyle reads as very town to me. I myself was having the same difficulties and frustration during my first games with the king of emp

[Twistedspoon]

you guys got through a nice 2 pages

anyways

Maruchan's meta-searching efforts are impressive although, not beyond scum so my vote remains for now. I have seen very clever and pro-town looking scum in my time who make big efforts to appear pro-town.
An example is http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3183795 where the efforts of the mafioso in making a vote chart gave me a very strong town read on the player in question, until she revealed that she did it in all games alignment-regardless, which dissapointed me a little.

Flea's response is rather dissapointing as he's still managed to avoid telling me any of his scumreads whatsoever. Imho, I don't know hoe Flea can ever be certain of who is scm anyways, so it looks like he'd never vote

Thanks for linking me to that. much more organized way of doing something I was attempting to do.

yeah, the spreadsheet really had me fooled in that game because it was just so pro-town and scum wouldn't really need to do one at all :p

[Twistedspoon]

did you put up a replacement slot in the queue, mod?

[Twistedspoon]

Maru wagon's going nowhere it seems

I was dissapointed, and still am, at Ticks vote conservatism for the 3 points I mentioned previously. It was maru who pointed this out to me first so he does get some town fruit for that

VOTE: Tick

[Twistedspoon]

dj is town
emp+link=at least one scum 100%

talk about these reads pls

[Twistedspoon]

did you put up a replacement slot in the queue, mod?

Yes.

It usually helps to get replacements when you try the replacements queue

the hint's in the name :p

[Twistedspoon]

I'll give Timeater an opportunity to respond and everyone else a chance to present a better case, but I'm willing to lynch him if nothing conclusive appears in the next 24 hours. Thoughts from others on this?

I can agree with this. The wagon on The Tick looks pretty nice if I start finding Timeater to be town though.

+1

[Twistedspoon]

did you put up a replacement slot in the queue, mod?

Yes.

It usually helps to get replacements when you try the replacements queue

the hint's in the name :p

Oh, right. I put it in the mini normal queue will go to the replacements queue, thanks!

lol, no worries

[Twistedspoon]

Oh, hi Regfan
you should have told me you were going to join and we could of Hydra'd :3
anyways

Although I'm unsure what to make from Twisteds avoidance from mentioning his great scum win recently in the list of his games completed and his under-rating his own scum ability I'm finding a great deal of his posts to be very spot on and logical and thus have a strongish town-read on him at the moment

I didn't mention it because It wasn't a 'great scum win' aside from my fakeclaim and fakehammer gambit (which was the only great part about it) I played very scummily and got lynched as a result. Not sure I was in a bragging mood either

@ Timeater -

What I'm talking about TS is him saying "scumTS is far from smart." in Post #95 when this isn't the case at all. He's leaving out the fact that he was the sole reason mafia won Mini 1147 and was nominated to win a scummy for it.

that was one game regfan, and I've even said it wasn't great play as I was lynched

the 2 games I provided are more typical of my scum play

besides, you (should) know that I play a better game as town anyways (see groundsel or any town game of mine) so it's hardly a scumtell when I play well

im getting spooked reading this mini, TS is so good for a younger player (if his bio is true)

...
I wasn't good at all in that game so I don't see what's so scary

and yes, I am 16 (17 next month)

If you think that's a good game on my part (when i get lynched and coast and the only highlights being 2 brief moments of brilliance) then I am dissapoint

Twisteds logic behind maintaining his vote on Maruchan in #382 is incredibly scummy and actually make me drop whatever town-read I had on him earlier which was decreasing as the game has progressed. The logic of X is acting protown now, mafia can act protwon therefore I keep my vote on X is one of the worst I've seen.

you really annoy me sometimes Regfan...

I prefer playing scumhunting with soben but right now it feels like Dupilcity

in #382 my vote was already on Maru. I didn't vote him for being pro-town; my vote was on him because of his earlier scuminess. However he posted what some players may have seen as pro-town and it was my job to show that even a pro-town player can be scummy and my vote remained not for that reason, but for his earlier scuminess.

I was keeping my vote on X for his scuminess, not for his pro-townness. the scumiess outweighs the small townieness. Even now maru knowing that the scum didn't get to use their QT in post #413 is incredibly scummy and I don't see how everyone missed it

[Twistedspoon]

Regfan, I don't see how the premise that I play well as scum (in your opinion) makes me scummier

you say I got nominated for a scummy. This is true, and yes I was playing as scum that game

however what you don't know is that I have been

nominated for 2 scummies

so touché

it is really misrepresenting when you provide a scummy I have been nominated for as scum, but not the one where I was town (and played better imho). Granted you probably didn't know (or expect me) to have a second one as town, but that fills the rest of the picture

I shall make a nice reads post tonight. Expect town reads on timeater and scumreads on tick among others

[Twistedspoon]

alos, how can you say I have provided no content Regfan?

quite frankly, I am astounded at this accussation >:[

[Twistedspoon]

hang on Regfan, you played with me in that recent game where ald was scum and you were soben, no?

then you should remember how much effort I put into my catchup posts as town and how little the rest of my posts appear in comparison.

after a 42 page catchup post the rest of my posts were in a similar vein to this one, no? And I believe the same could be said after Groundsel's catchup post. Both these games I have been town in

[Twistedspoon]

@ Twistedspoon, the fact that you play well as scum doesn't make you scummier at all. My only qualm is that you understated your scum skill when attempting to defend yourself earlier though I don't believe it's strongly related to your alignment in this game.

it isn't understated because I usually, and still do, play terribadly

one of the links I provided was my most recent scum game; and I got lynched d1.

I've found your posts to be low-content related and look forward to your updated reads.

and I've found empking's and DJ's even less so but you give them free passes

I do not intend to follow up on this post. The points you make against me are weak and I've done my best to explain them. If you've somehow managed to persuade a player that I'm scum then fair enough and I'll cross that bridge when I get to it, but my main priority is scumhunting (which I hope to address in a post not to far away) rather than self-preservation (which I have been lured into doing now by Regfan's inconsistencies with meta)

one last thing I shall add though, was that one of the big reasons I /in'd for this game was to impress my old friend DH, and that explains why I was so sad to see him go. That may explain why my content perhaps dropped slightly after that event. However i realise that now this has started it needs to be finished and you're going to need my help for that.

[Twistedspoon]

TOWN

Eater of time
Anakmius
Zdemnwka (however you spell it)
Ryu
Hikari (fwhahaha)
Fan of Regs
King of Emps
Nintendoaddict[some numbers]
Hellhound
Tick (who's avatar has my name in for some reason...)

SUSPECT

(I don't like the word scummy. It's just nicer to hear you're suspect than scum imho)

Wildcards: Maru, DJ

reasons to come later tonight. Off to play badminton shortly so I have no time atm.

On the sunnier side that means I will be able to invest more time and fish for more supporting quotes when I do my explanations. I'm also trying to write my GKTAS right now too, but I think all I've plenty of time over the week if it i haven't done it by then done by then

[Twistedspoon]

don't worry regfan, I have the most to say on Maru...

[Twistedspoon]

done 2 so far

Spoiler: maruchan

the good things

1)

I honestly think this Demon vs. Ryuu is town on town.

first player to propose this idea. Everyone else was rather anti-DH

2) the vig gambit. It could have been faked though the "well done for killing a VT thing." I'd know I'd have said it. However the fact that he still contributes and is (somewhat) pro-town after the gambit but before the resolution and doesn't dwell too much on being opportunistic or m

3) research is always pro-town, but in this case it helped to save himself, not scumhunt. Thus he would have had a vested interest to be pro-town even as scum

the bad parts

1) post #136 is full of fluff and is where he voted DH despite him saying he was town not too much earlier
post #141 isn't great at persuading me otherwise at all

2) there is a lot of fluff. This has to be said. This point is blunt but valid. It isn't entirely uncommon in newbie town playstyles though

3) post #223 is a very poor self defence and appeal to myself. Just because he was lynched in a previous game as a VT does not mean he is VT this game

4)

There was no N0, scum-talk phase of this game. The thread opened at 5:20, we all received role PMs between 5:20 and 5:45, and at 5:45 he opened confirmation, in-thread. There would have been no time for the scum to plan anything together pre-game, no matter who you suspect the scum-team of being.

This is incredibly suspect. Why and how town Maru would know this is beyond me. A scumslip if ever I saw one

Conclusion

: the scumslip is really glaring to me, even if others don't see it. I feel that his playstlye has mostly been a newb-town one other than that though and the vig gambit is impressive if Maru really does turn out to be scum

Bonus conclusion for Regfan:

Doesn't this remind you of my play from royal mafia? Playing scummily and posting fluff but saved by one moment of brilliance (in this case Maru's vig gambit response). If you didn't put it past me why are you doing so to Maru?

Spoiler: Regfan

A bit of background first. Regfan replaced mysterio, the town lurker/flaker and proceeded to become the town leader. My experiences with Regfan tell me that he is a very through player who considers all possibities and has both practical and theoretical brilliance as a player at times. At others he can underestimate players (cough) or put too much weight on things that aren't particularly significant imho. However the positives vastly outweigh the negatives and this is even more true when he is hydraing. My experiences with scum Regfan are vastly limited though so I cannot speculate on this front. I hope to hydra with him in the future (preferably not now as I'm currently hydra'ing with Mastin and I still have things to prove about my individual skills to the MS community (see my 2 posts before this one where I mention DH being why I joined this game)

now onto the game

I've mentioned all of the (weak?) points that I think Dh has made about myself I don't feel like repeating myself right now

I'm also reading the whole Timeeater vs DemonHybrid spat to be town on town to be perfectly honest,

an understandable, but not original thought. I believe this strongly too and have done so for a while, especially with timeater

So far The Tick has been incredibly wishy-washy in his posts and has avoided and refrained from posting anything that can be considered as legitimate scumhunting or geninue town thinking. His willingness to drop his entire scum-read on DH just because he replaced out makes no sense whatsoever and reads as him attempting to avoid being the last person on the inevitable dying wagon.

agreed. Tick pings my scumdar in certain (albeit unusual) ways. If he is scum I find his playstyle and vote conservatism to be one of the more unusual scum playstyles. However I have a small feeling that he might be myslynch fodder as time was. However from Time's posts I get a better feeling of genuineness

Maruchans reaction to the dayvig gambit reads as incredibly town and the motivation behind Zdenek doing it also looks highly town motivated. I'm stuggling to find any legitimate reason for Zdenek to 'reaction test' a supposed scummy town player giving them a chance to redeem their image if he were mafia, it seems highly counter-productive.

agreed on the Zdnek parts. I've given my opinion on maru and that it was a pro-town response, but we shouldn't let him be conf. town or anything near that status just from that.

I hate Dons attitude of it's only day one thus he doesn't have much to contribute

Genuine town frustration at lack of co-operation here. Regfan knows the town has to co-operate to be successful and has every right to be frustrated as town if it isn't

I'm growing uncertain of what to make of Nintendo, some of his more recent posts show better signs of scumhunting however I'm unsure if it's genuine or not and would love a summary of his reads at the moment along with reasoning if possible.

agreed (as in you need to do this nintendo)

Right now the only person I'm comfortable voting is Tick, his ISO reads as him attempting to stay as neutral as possible and making as few enemies as he can while trying to glide through the day, his change of read and reasoning behind it on Timeeater is awful.

Vote: The Tick

out of all the regfan stuff I've read, the part here about tick not wanting to make enemies mirrors my thoughts almost perfectly. That's exactly the motivation I'm seeing behind the tick's play

just Iso'ing now but Regfan mention's his exhaustion a lot. Probably means nothing though...

in post #548 I can agree with or at least understand most of Regfan's reads. The only problems I have are that your town read on Don is incredibly generous. I'd also disagree with the null HL read, but then again I have past experience with him. I'll talk about him later. Obviously I think you listing me as a scumread is weak and daft but I've already talked about that and I guess you've bcome extra cautious of me after royal mafia

Conclsuion:

Despite a small omgusy part of me not wanting him to be, Regfan is really probably town

[Twistedspoon]

any particular one next (might have to be a while as I got called up as an emergency replacement for a 30 page game. sigh)

[Twistedspoon]

TS: Nightkill analysis?

lol, you're asking me

well if you want my opinion NK analysis is 80% wifom so it should be taken with a pinch of salt. However I feel Maruchan's conclusion about nintendo is quite good. He does look one of the prime suspects for a regfan kill along with hellhound

I'm not a fan of hellhound at all this game. I feel he is playing very passively.
VOTE: hellhound

this vote is interchangable with a nintendo one i guess

also, empking was an interesting vig choice (i am assuming vig as SK would target a stronger town read). He did play scummily, but empking always does D1; it's only in the later days and towards lylo he really shines. I guess If you weren't familiar with his meta that's a great shot. He was unreadable D1 so why not?

maru: you seem to feel pretty strongly about who killed who. thats good. but could you answer my question? would you rather a vig claim early? i already said yes and will explain my answer more later(but mainly its because i think its safer for town), but would like an answer from everyone if its not too much trouble. i'm not asking for the viog to claim, but would just like a consensus on whether or not they should.

of course the vig should not claim early

we don't want scum to kill another PR

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If my pal timeater could explain his HL vote that'd be swish

[Twistedspoon]

more analysis

Town Reads (From strongest to weakest):

Timeater, Maruchan, Ankamius, Zdenek, Hahonryuu, Don.

Null Reads:

Link, Empking.

Scum Reads (From strongest to weakest):

The Tick,

Nintendo

,

Hellhound

, Twistedspoon.

Vote count 9:
Zdenek -
Regfan -
Don_johnson -
Hellhound -
Timeater - Zdenek,

Hellhound

,

Empking

Link (sorry) -
Hahonryuu -
Nintendoaddict -
Empking -
Twistedspoon -

The Tick

-Tspoon, Maruchan,

Regfan

, Timeater, Link, Ankamius,

Nintendoaddict1

(L-0!)
Maruchan -
Ankamius - Don_johnson

red = conf. scum
green = conf. town
underlined = living regfan scumread (not including myself as I know I'm town and Regfan's cases on me I proved to be nonsense.)

looking at this the conclusions from VCA and NK analysis BOTH point to hellhound and nintendo being the last 2 scum. of course whilst neither are perfect methods, the coincidence cannot be ignored.
Nintendo quickhammered flea (probably for towncred) and hellhound has been scummy, and chose the obvtown wagon rather than the scum one.
Them both being scum also point to regfan death

A scumteam of hellhound and nintendo

fits perfectly

[Twistedspoon]

anyone feel don is going down a dead end road asking about vig claims rather than discussing scumspects which is what we should be doing?

the vig should not claim at all. There are no advantages. scum could kill them (or roleblock them) should they claim and it's not like there's any advantage of outing them now. they can out themselves if a hammer intention is declared and at no other time except for massclaim

my opinion is that there isn't a 'pure vig' anyways. We either have an SK or an X-shot (probably 2-shot) vig. I believe this because Regfan flipped an X-shot role and X-shot roles are easier to balance with other X-shot roles. It makes sense for other roles to be X-shot if we've already had one like that

[Twistedspoon]

Sorry for the lack of activity, RL issues have got in the way of most things.

A scumteam of hellhound and nintendo

fits perfectly

I have to disagree. Mostly because im not scum. I havent helped myself by being largely inactive, but meh thats life.

hellhound has been scummy, and chose the obvtown wagon rather than the scum one

Err, so did Zdenek. Lets have your read on him please TS.


However, a scum team of you & zdenek would certainly make sense if you push a mislynch on me, and dont provide a read on zdenek.
It would be a good set up strategy to kill someone and push the blame onto who they thought were scummy.
Kind of hard to pull off, seeing as you're basing your case against me to do with inactivity, and my activity can only go up from here..

well If you're saying you hope to contribute more today then that's great, however it is not unreasonable to have suspicions of you from your little content yesterday

no where in your ISO had you said you had inactivity, thus the logical conclusion is that you weren't contributing

furthermore your last post is just a big omgus of me. You say I'm scum with zednek just for my vote on you? I don't see that as great town play at all

my read on zdnek is a top town one. His vig gambit I have talked about previously and all motivation of it and other zdnek posts are town. scum don't do vig gambits. they draw too much attention to them (which they don't want) and could backfiree badly. in addition they have nothing to gain

my vote stays on you until you prove yourself town

[Twistedspoon]

K, I can appreciate that

[Twistedspoon]

ts: i don't think trying to figure out our set-up is a waste of time. we have a vig, sk, or two mafia teams. two mafia teams is least likely imo, so determining the identity of our rogue killer is important. you earlier referred to my play in mafiamatical mathia, but now you seem to forget how that game was won: teamwork and coordinating night actions. true, the set-up screwed us, but we had early claims in that game and were destined to win no matter what the set-up because of how we orchestrated our actions. how many shots does a vig get? if its one or two shot, then a claim is a great idea as it can draw the mafia nk off of other town power or confirmeds(if we get any). also, it narrows down the possibilities of

who might be

sk so town doesn't lose to a rogue faction. the only down side to a vig claim is the exposure, but guesss what? if there is a vig, he already took a shot and failed. we're better off directing the kill from here on out. also, empking may have been a shot at scum. sk's have to kill scum to win, and what better way to fluff your vig fake claim than with a scum shot. but whatevz. you've moved up my list. i have some coffee. may have to run to the store quick, but i'm rereading this game today.

I see your directing the vig idea, but why does the vig have to claim for us to direct him?

[Twistedspoon]

VCA and NK aren't perfect I've said this

however I could go through all the rest of the players and explain why i have townreads on them and I'd still arrive at the same conlcusions

I still have no idea what you're saying here

Nintendo quickhammered flea (probably for towncred) and hellhound has been scummy, and chose the obvtown wagon rather than the scum one.
Them both being scum also point to regfan death

Actually, I hammered because I thought he was scum. And I was right. Do you mean The Tick was obvtown? If so, how the hell was he? Obviously, the majority of us didn't think he was so obvtown seeing as he got lynched. I'm not pointing fingers here, but don't you think scum would want to make their kills strategic so that it would get people whom they

know

are town lynched?

Tick was scummy of course. Your first mention of tick was only a page before your hammer though so I find your hammer rather suspect

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: nintendo

I'll trust hellhound in that he had RL issues d1 which led him to be suspect. I like his "I'll prove myself town" attitude too

not sure what nintendo's excuse is though...

[Twistedspoon]

actually nintendo TS was the second vote on tick, I was the first

My point still stands, it was an early vote.

early votes are before wagons begin so they're hardly scummy

Tick I found scummy ever since Maru pointed out he had never voted. You never cared to explain your quickhammer

[Twistedspoon]

actually nintendo TS was the second vote on tick, I was the first

My point still stands, it was an early vote.

early votes are before wagons begin so they're hardly scummy

Tick I found scummy ever since Maru pointed out he had never voted. You never cared to explain your quickhammer

If most people see them as not very scummy, scum would want to hide there, wouldn't they?

uh no as a vote on a player not considered scummy would attract attention to the mafioso which he would not want if he wanted to 'hide'

Tick was scummy to me and that's all that matters. I'm only glad as I able to help lynch scum

sure the VCA and NK could be entirely wrong, it's possible. But in light of them both I find it daft to ignore them.

If you can explain why everyone else is town, then do it. Otherwise, it would look like you are tunneling on only a couple of people.

tunnelling or find suspect?

I do have town reads on everyone else

For example I find Don's desire to out the vig rather townie as that would be a way too risky viewpoint for scum to take.
Risk management can be a big tell in many instances
same for zdnek's vig gambit which I have spoken of (and the resultant maru response)
Timeater V DH I have always believed to be town V town and Timeater's genuineness has only enforced this view of mine

[Twistedspoon]

sure the VCA and NK could be entirely wrong, it's possible. But in light of them both I find it daft to ignore them.

Yet you still would like to ignore the fact that you were also on them.

yes because I know I'm town, I know I countered regfan's arguments and I know my vote was in the right place

For example I find Don's desire to out the vig rather townie as that would be a way too risky viewpoint for scum to take.
Risk management can be a big tell in many instances
same for zdnek's vig gambit which I have spoken of (and the resultant maru response)
Timeater V DH I have always believed to be town V town and Timeater's genuineness has only enforced this view of mine

No, I want townreads that are as detailed as your case against me, not just a point here or there. And that didn't even cover everyone.

well I think those are good reasons to consider those players town. I do.
I think it was just ryu and HL it didn't cover. I don't like to use gut at this stage of the game, but aside from positive meta experience with HL, that is sadly what it is.

I do see where you're coming from and it is probably too early in d2 for these accusations from myself though

I'm at a crossroads now

UNVOTE: whilst i think things through. i don't want to rush in to things but might return to this junction later

[Twistedspoon]

3. In that case the whole "Nintendo hammered and Regfan is dead" thing is completely WIFOM.

just saying, but whilst there is some truth in this, that doesn't mean NKs aren't worth analysing and conclusions being drawn

[Twistedspoon]

If timeater is still around I'd like to hear from him...

[Twistedspoon]

spoon looks way town. he does point out the fact that tick casts suspicion towards dh, but doesn't park a vote. he says this is pro-town.

question:

spoon: looking back at that early game, do you still stand by your call in that instance? to me, it seems like tick could be setting himself up to either jump the wagon later, or point back to his post to say "see, i knew it" id dh ended up being lynched and being scum.

I had no idea at the time what tick's playstyle was. Obviously I picked up on the not voting habit later when maru showed me it and that confirmed to me he was scum. I think your conclusion here is right

do you have an ordered list of reads for us

@Time: do you have any scumspects other than HL?

[Twistedspoon]

@TS - Nintendo, Ank, and DJ now to some extent, but its weak.

A LIST!

1. Zdenek- scum
2. Mysterio - null
3. don_johnson - scummy
4. Hellhound1 - null
6. Hikari Link - town
7. hahonryuu - obvtown
8. nintendoaddict1 - scummy
9. Empking - null
10. Twistedspoon - obvtown
11. The Tick - scum
12. Maruchan - town
13. Ankamius - town...

your reads on HL and Ank have changed since this post

why?

[Twistedspoon]

just want to say to dj right now that I doubt timeater and maruchan are scum. 2 of the most genuine players I have yet read (and then there's maru's vig gambit response which near-confirmed him as town)

If either of these players were to be lynched/vig'd I would be very dissapointed. Both are town in their own special ways. Both are genuine

I feel timeater's vote on link is 3 things:
1) town
2) wrong
3) natural

when I first played with HL I had similar feelings. "wow. he's so calculated and cold he could just be seriously clever scum" but then I realised this calculated playstyle of HL's is his town one. Perfectly logical, and that's a good thing. It's the natural feeling of townie paranoia when you're up against a good player which Is what I think time is feeling

[Twistedspoon]

twistedspoon: if we are all town, then who is scum and why are you not voting them?

that's the £1000000 question

I want to hear more from hellhound before I vote. He's promised big things today


also, have you finished your catchup?

[Twistedspoon]

Scum

Spoiler: TwistedSpoon

You're trying to mislynch me. Im pretty sure of it. You say zdenek isnt scummy for being on the same wagon as me? Im assuming you dont want to call out your own scum partner. A fair few people have called zdenek scum.
Me not being on that wagon means nothing except that if i was scum, i couldnt bus my partner. Me, knowing im not scum, am not liking your insistence that it's me or nintendo. Mainly because its not me.. Therefore im assuming its a mislynch against nintendo as well.

Spoiler: Timeater

Is just as scummy as yesterday. If he is right about link, he will jump up to null, because it could just be an epic bus. Id be happy to lynch him today anyway.

Spoiler: Hikari Link

Because Timeater says so. He seems pretty certain. Almost feel timeater is trying to push the lynch without claiming his role, but the insistance is pointing (to me) the link is scum

There. They are likely to change a million times between now and my next posts.

A few problems here

1) timeater has already claimed vt. you say he hasn't claimed in the HL spoiler. why is this?
2) your case on HL scum is because 'timeater says so' however I don't see why you blindly trust another scumread of yours
3) link me some quotes where people who have called zdnek scum. I am positive he is town
4) you never explained why you found timeater scummy yesterday, so saying he is 'just as scummy as yesterday' doesn't cut it for me
5) your case on me is omgus, no?

and that's just the scumreads

[Twistedspoon]

also

@hellhound: you list ryu as town fro "scumhunting although wrong" but you list anak as null for the same reasons

you don't explain on your metatells of maru and don (which means we cannot argue with it and have to accept it as gospel truth. >_> )

tbqh, I'm dissapointed in this catchup

VOTE: hellhound

TOWN

Zdnek

Timeater

Maru

Anak and HL

DJ and Ryu

Nintendo

Hellhound

SUSPECT

[Twistedspoon]

1) I dont believe him.

2) Jeez, i wanted to see HL's response. Thanks for ruining it now he knows it isnt genuine -.-

3) Look at hahonryuu's ISO from #8 onwards.

4) Gut? Agreeing with everyone else?

5) No. My case against you is that you set me up. Or at least took advantage of the fact i wasnt here to move with the game, and say im scum for it.

1) why not. I want reasons why you find timeater scummy. Like actual reasons, not gut. It's not a free pass
2) you should alawys be genuine in reads
3) that's one player. you said various fund zdnek scummy. I know regfan didn't for one, and I sure don't
4) see 1
5) so you have aproblem in me finding you scummy. That's omgus. You made no indication of V/la yesterday so it was only natural to find your play yesterday scummy.

[Twistedspoon]

1) fine, but it makes my vote for comfortable. I think you should care about that
2) fine, lie about your reads, but don't be surprised when i call you out on them
3) ... I don't want to argue about zdnek. He's town but he's not in danger now
4) 6?
5) i was at the start of the day and am still

[Twistedspoon]

^AtE

[Twistedspoon]

lolol @ anyone remotely think im scum

Rune Factory: Frontier for the Wii?

Vote: hellhound

good work TS, barnacling

barnacling? you might have to explain this term to me

[Twistedspoon]

TS will probably die tonight (take that bit of wifom, scum)

you do realise now you've said that it's far less likely

@Link: why aren't you voting. Like anyone at all. Don't turn into the Tick :0

[Twistedspoon]

@mod: prod zdnek

[Twistedspoon]

ok, that's cool

[Twistedspoon]

...

Timeater never fails to blow my mind

not sure if you're just backpeddaling though. I know I'd do so rather than get into a fight with Link

[Twistedspoon]

It means I am willing to trust your judgment and "follow better poster" so to speak. A great and noble sea turtle will still have barnacles; they are apart of him. I am your barnacle sweety :3

K

well as long as you still accept some responsibility of your vote should hellhound flip town and not say "I was just sheeping TS guyz"

[Twistedspoon]

I have no idea what you two are saying

tell me, Barnacle or Sea turtle will go play with a nice seahorse

I feel that forcing hellhound to

claim

is the best course of action atm.

with 2 votes on him?

[Twistedspoon]

@Everyone

: I would like a list from everyone

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3369671

[Twistedspoon]

that isn't a list, that's 2 groups

[Twistedspoon]

and I don't like the 2 set categories

w/e

I can probably guess your list anyways my fine feathered friend

[Twistedspoon]

@Everyone

: I would like a list from everyone

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3369671

update

anak and link probably move a bit higher as I was probably a bit harsh in version 1 of that list

not much else changes

[Twistedspoon]

exiting troll mode

Town

Link

TS

Ank

ryuu

chan

dj

hound

zdenek

nintendo

Scum

a nice shade of violet...

when do you plan on sharing your reasons for your HL U-turn?
or don't you?

[Twistedspoon]

everyone knows but me

foreveralone.jpg

[Twistedspoon]

meh

I'll wait (this game has a lot of waiting *coughzdnekcough*)

[Twistedspoon]

@DJ: you never explained why you wanted a vig claim. I'm curious...

[Twistedspoon]

Hi Zde, looking forward to that post.

Unvote
Vote: nintendoaddict

Got what I needed. He's scum.

what, him misunderstanding you were referring to hellhound

you are a true mystery timeater......

[Twistedspoon]

/offtopic a sec

I will easily switch modes like a yugioh card. You cannot stop the eater of time, foolish hyrulian.

now I remember why the name timeater was so familiar

I got that card in a booster pack long ago

nostalgia....

[Twistedspoon]

Dude, back in the day my favorite combo was Timeater + Thunder of Ruler. I used to be able to get away with making people skip entire turns, because they wouldn't have a mainphase. But the bigwig reps eventually ruled that out.

iknowrite :3

He's still scummy. Look at his Maruchan interaction. I will not be changing my vote again this day.

which maruchan interaction?

[Twistedspoon]

is our pal anakmius going to be voting today?

last page is a load of weak attacks on nintendo. I don't even want to go there

[Twistedspoon]

I've asked to replace out. I've suddenly had a lot less time to devote to forum mafia. My apologies.

adios amigo

until our next game

[Twistedspoon]

that's for zdnek to do within 8 hours

[Twistedspoon]

UNVOTE:

I don't want a hammer right now

catching up

[Twistedspoon]

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

[Twistedspoon]

TS, can you direct me to another game where you tired to use NK analysis?

Crtl+F'ing my past game Iso's for the words 'vca' I found this one


http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3038580

It's hard to find past Vca's. I forget which games I do them in and then It's hard to find them within games so you're quite fortunate I found this one.

[Twistedspoon]

something is really wrong here

@mod: why are only 5 votes required for a hammer when we have 10 players? 50% is not a majority >:[

11. A lynch occurs when a majority is reached. For an odd number of players, this is (n+1)/2. For an even number of players, this is (n/2)+1. For example, Day 1 will have 13 players alive, and ((13+1)/2) = 7 votes to lynch.

10/2 + 1 is not 5

[Twistedspoon]

honestly, Think how scum could have abused that broken mechanic if Hellhound was town (as unlikely as it is)...

[Twistedspoon]

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

Considering he admitted to laziness, I sense this will end up very similarly to don_johnson. Why slog through reading the day when he's just gonna throw a hellhound vote out in the end? That's what I'm imagining from him, at least.

I think anyone can see 4 pages is nothing compared to where we are. Thus i expect him to read the whole thread, even if he doesn't make a catchup post as big as the one I did last time I replaced into a game

I hadn't noticed that either. Good catch.

ty
I felt something was off the way it got to L-1 so quickly....

[Twistedspoon]

Welcome Casey we'll get along just fine us 2 once you've read the whole thread

I don't want a hammer until you've caught up; hence my unvote

Considering he admitted to laziness, I sense this will end up very similarly to don_johnson. Why slog through reading the day when he's just gonna throw a hellhound vote out in the end? That's what I'm imagining from him, at least.

I think anyone can see 4 pages is nothing compared to where we are. Thus i expect him to read the whole thread, even if he doesn't make a catchup post as big as the one I did last time I replaced into a game

I hadn't noticed that either. Good catch.

ty
I felt something was off the way it got to L-1 so quickly....

I'd generally prefer it too, but I'm just anticipating him acting in the same way as don_johnson. And it would be kind of hypocritical to let dj get away with it and not nocase. I mean, he's coming in a relatively unsuspected slot and there's the chance he could be night killed. I'd hate to make him read 30 pages just to die when we all know hellhound is getting it today. He could stand to at least look at the general case against hellhound, but reading everything seems a bit harsh when we already haven't held everyone to those standards. If he wants to, that would be great, but if he doesn't, I see no reason to make him.

point taken

I just assume replacements will read the thread though as that's what replacements do

If he's alive tommorow then I guess he could do with a read up

I just feel he (may) be sheeping voting hellhound without reading the whole thread. It seems odd. we have 26 extra pages of info so why not use it

[Twistedspoon]

Wow hellhound was almost hammered? Dang.

First I would like the mod to clarify if it is 10 or 11 to lynch

THEN hellhound should claim before anyone hammers him. Always good policy.

we have 10 players

10/2 +1 is 6

it is 6 to lynch

not 5, not 10, not 11

I don't want to have to explain this again

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah, VT.
If i do get hammered, and i WILL flip town, take a close look at TS please for pushing the mislynch, there was something wierd about the way he went at me from the start of D2. No one will listen to me, so i hope me flipping town will get someone to look at him.

...
so I'm suspicious for wanting your lynch at the start of d2 but nocase is cool for wanting your lynch today after 4 pages

you sir are a living contradiction

[Twistedspoon]

*not that I have anything against nocase.
He's still probtown by far

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah hellhound, You should be thanking me for making you 1 vote harder to lynch ^_^

i could have let you go for 5

some people you can never please. You're just like my ex hellhound

[Twistedspoon]

let the mod clarify

I just doubt we have a 'weird mechanic' in a mini normal (you can tell by the word 'normal') and find it more likely that ender just made a mistake

[Twistedspoon]

Oh this is a Normal? I thought all my Mini's except Lil Sicily were Themes. Mah Bad.

we're in little italy though ;/

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah hellhound, You should be thanking me for making you 1 vote harder to lynch ^_^

i could have let you go for 5

some people you can never please. You're just like my ex hellhound

You jump off it now, so if i am hammered, and you know ill flip town, you can say O LOOK GUISE I WASNT ON HELLHOUNDS WAGON!!!!11!!1!1!

You're so two faced and sneaky.. Just like my ex ¬¬

but It'll still be obvious I think you're scum as I've said numerous times on this page and that can be quoted

my unvote is courtesy whilst the mod clarifies things

[Twistedspoon]

If you'd rather I could just put it back on now...

[Twistedspoon]

Yeah, VT.
If i do get hammered, and i WILL flip town, take a close look at TS please for pushing the mislynch, there was something wierd about the way he went at me from the start of D2. No one will listen to me, so i hope me flipping town will get someone to look at him.

...
so I'm suspicious for wanting your lynch at the start of d2 but nocase is cool for wanting your lynch today after 4 pages

you sir are a living contradiction

bump

[Twistedspoon]

You straight away made a case out of where i was on the wagon, like, as your first thing. Does this not scream to anyone that he was obviously talking overnight?

no

what's that got to do with anything?

during night phases I briefly re-read games (provided they aren't too long into the game) and you stuck out.

as nocase has shown, you only need 4 pages to see you're the scummiest player around

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: hellhound

[Twistedspoon]

Holy crap, TS, why don't you push the lynch a little harder?

Unvote, Vote: TS

?

If you haven't noticed I was the one alarmed by the wagon rate

I feel your vote on me is opportunistic.

You straight away made a case out of where i was on the wagon, like, as your first thing. Does this not scream to anyone that he was obviously talking overnight?

no

what's that got to do with anything?

during night phases I briefly re-read games (provided they aren't too long into the game) and you stuck out.

as nocase has shown, you only need 4 pages to see you're the scummiest player around

Something really doesn't sit well with me hear. Maybe it's the fact that he has only a confirm post in the first 4 pages, yet you are implying he is scummy for that reason. Seems off to me.

nocase Isn't scummy, and that's exactly why hellhound is (well just one reason)

problem?

[Twistedspoon]

Holy crap, TS, why don't you push the lynch a little harder?

Unvote, Vote: TS

furthermore, hellhound hasn't even flipped yet

so unless you know something we don't then this vote on me makes no sense anyways

[Twistedspoon]

we'll talk my lynch after you flip town

oh wait, that isn't happening

[Twistedspoon]

all your posts are an omgus of myself and I'm tired of it.
I contribute and analyse. You omgus and misrep. end of

this is the worst self-preservation tactic I've ever seen of scum

[Twistedspoon]

And how I'm scummy purely for being the first vote Idon'teven

[Twistedspoon]

wait did Nintendo claim doctor

...





I'm unsure right now......

did you crumb doctor nintendo?

Crumbing is essential.

[Twistedspoon]

This is the maddest crossroads I've ever been at.....

damned if I do damned if I don't......

Nintendo, please tell me you crumbed like a good PR does

If you are a doc then I am truly sorry but there is more than enough evidence to suggest otherwise right now. I can't say any more

VOTE: nintendo

ninja:

wait did Nintendo claim doctor

...





I'm unsure right now......

did you crumb doctor nintendo?

Crumbing is essential.

No I did not crumb. Because I didn't want some VI to out it. I've seen it happen.

you could've done a discreet crumb

like first letter of first 3 sentences to spell out 'doc'

that's hard to find

[Twistedspoon]

actually

UNVOTE:

my brain is so messed up now...

[Twistedspoon]

wait did Nintendo claim doctor

...





I'm unsure right now......

did you crumb doctor nintendo?

Crumbing is essential.

No I did not crumb. Because I didn't want some VI to out it. I've seen it happen.

you could've done a discreet crumb

like first letter of first 3 sentences to spell out 'doc'

that's hard to find

No, it's not hard to find. Like I said, I've seen a VI find it.

VIs will be VIs (not that they check the first word of every sentence in every post)

it's still correct PR play

[Twistedspoon]

I have never been so 50/50 over a claim, but then again, I've never been in this position before

...

[Twistedspoon]

Plain and simple, there's no reason to lynch a PR that has not been counter-claimed in this situation.

but that's just it

what's to say there aren't 2 docs and the other one not counterclaiming because he fells it's possible that there are 2?

[Twistedspoon]

Hikari, if i was a doc in this situation I wouldn't counterclaim as there may be 2 docs

given the number of vts who have claimed, I don't see why not

[Twistedspoon]

VOTE: hellhound

[Twistedspoon]

I think it's possible to prove Nintendo's claim; but that would require the vig to claim and out himself...

If the vig outed himself and declared a target to kill tonight, and nintendo promised to protect the same target then no kill should occur on that player

that would prove nintendo to be the doc

If a kill did occur then nintendo's claim would be false

what do we think of this method? I agree it's risky, but it's the only way to confirm him

[Twistedspoon]

in fact the vig doesn't need to claim

we just have to direct the vig to a target and tell nintendo to protect the same target

the plan would work like this

1) we tell the vig to vig a general scumread tonight (hellhound? It has to be made clear who)

2) we tell Nintendo to protect the same target tonight

3) if that target is dead tommorow then Nintendo is confirmed doctor. Otherwise he isn't a doc

opinions?

[Twistedspoon]

3) if that target is

dead

alive tommorow then Nintendo is confirmed doctor. Otherwise he isn't a doc

[Twistedspoon]

yeah, the vig wouldn't have to claim I don't think....

[Twistedspoon]

What if nintendo ISN'T the doctor, but the doctor doesn't want an innocent townie to die, so he protects him?

so many things could go wrong about your idea.

wat?

If you don't like my idea we don't have to do it. 'twas just a suggestion

and docs protect from all kills I believe

[Twistedspoon]

I forgot about the roleblocker

K

[Twistedspoon]

were the one who originally brought it up in response to dj's plan. This doesn't sit well with me at all.

I thought that there may be an x-shot theme, but that wouldn't match with nintendo's claim of doctor, not 'x-shot doctor' you see

I considered it but it is unlikely

[Twistedspoon]

I'm sure there must be some way to prove/confirm nintendo's role...

I'll get back to this tommorow.

[Twistedspoon]

thanks Don

thanks for getting scum to know about another PR, but you've left me no choice

I should've done this earlier

It is imperative that you read the next post

[Twistedspoon]

Don you douche. getting a wagon on me with only my suggestion. I'm not standing for L-3 and I'm sick of being in this position where I'm damned if i explain and damned if I don't

Claim Doc

yeah that's right

I'm a doc too

except unlike nintendo, I actually knew I should crumb my role from the minute I got my role PM

the proof is in the pudding

D

amn, late to the party again. Anything beyond page one Is a disaster for me

o

nto the game now. My catchup will be around shortly but I'm glad to be back playing with empking, DJ and DH again. We've had good games in the past,

c

ertainly Donner party and Iowa mafia come to mind :p

these are the first 3 lines of my first post. the first letters of each one read and spell out

d

o

c

I'm a doc and I crumbed. why didn't nintendo?

now this brings up the obvious question why didn't I claim earlier?
well let's look at the moment when I knew Nintendo had claimed doc

wait did Nintendo claim doctor

...





I'm unsure right now......

did you crumb doctor nintendo?

Crumbing is essential.

This is the maddest crossroads I've ever been at.....

damned if I do damned if I don't......

this was my dilemma

I didn't want to counterclaim. I felt I could prove nintendo's claim myself in the night phase without having to reveal my role. If I protected him tonight and no kill occured then his claim must have been true as scum had targeted him. furthermore I felt if there were 2 docs then town was pretty screwed
My main reason though was that i didn't want to get Nk'd or reveal my role. A secret PR is the only good one, but you've forced me to claim now

any 'nonsense' I have said today makes sense when realise I had this role and was trying my bet not to out myself

also Nintendo, that's how you crumb and not get it noticed >_>





yeah, my role does look suspect with a doc already claimed, but if I wasn't a doc I firstly, would never have crumbed, and secondly wouldn't have claimed doc due to how suspect it looks with another claimed doc.

my head has been messed up since nintendo's claim with my dilemma and my posts show this. I apologise for that.

that is all I know. It feels like I've taken a lead weight off of my chest.

If i get lynched now then I guess it's my fault for not claiming sooner. My only crime was wanting to believe nintendo and not out myself

that is all

~TS

[Twistedspoon]

I have to say i truly dislike TS' willingness to lynch a claimed doctor.

there now you understand it

and I crumbed from the start, so if anyone is suggesting I've made up this claim now on the spur of the moment to protect myself (from 3 votes at that)

...

[Twistedspoon]

protected HL N1

[Twistedspoon]

correct play as a PR is not to out myself obv

so that's what I did

the crumb is to prove i didn't make this claim up on the spur of the moment

[Twistedspoon]

still not seeing why there can't be 2 docs though...

unlikely, sure, but not impossible

I don't like how you u-turned your read on me after I speculated about confirming nintendo-town. it was just a suggestion, so don't misrep it as a master plan of evil

[Twistedspoon]

I have contributed the most, made the most analysis, even crumbed my role. who else thinks of that but a PR?
If I have any crime it is not wanting to out another PR

now give me 1 reason why I shouldn't believe the wagon on me is scum driven?

seriously, there's nothing worse than players who tell others how to play their role and use that to justify their own shenanigans

[Twistedspoon]

I have to say i truly dislike TS' willingness to lynch a claimed doctor.

this is because I am a doctor as I have explained

I have no inconsistencies

the player who should be lynched today is obvious

I intend on taking a break from this game. I do not appreciate being told that I am playing my role 'wrong' as if there is a definite way to play it

[Twistedspoon]

btw, don

if you can play a mini normal where the 2 neighbours were Mafia together, a concept which we all thought was broken, then I've no clue as to why you think 2 docs is impossible

[Twistedspoon]

i did crumb, the quote tag just failed

read my original post

the chances of the first letters of each line spelling doc are bizzare

I crumbed. If you can't see that-

[Twistedspoon]

IT WAS THE FIRST 3 LETTERS OF THE FIRST 3 LINES

READ THE POST

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3346379

[Twistedspoon]

I breadcrumbed because I had the role

how can you not see this?

[Twistedspoon]

are you blind?

[Twistedspoon]

breadcrumbing is good play for sure. It helps to justify a claim, nintendo.

everything else is debatable, such as CC'ing

Breadcrumbing is solid though

[Twistedspoon]

even you nintendo have admitted I am town at points

only when the myslynch opportunity appears do you jump aboard

[Twistedspoon]

I have contributed the most, made the most analysis, even crumbed my role. who else thinks of that but a PR?
If I have any crime it is not wanting to out another PR

Not wanting to out another PR? You just claimed. How is that not wanting to out another PR?

the wagon forced me to

I kept it secret for as long as I could

[

now give me 1 reason why I shouldn't believe the wagon on me is scum driven?

Because you

are

scum.

this wasn't your tune yesterday. You U-turn like idon'tknowwhat

this isn't even an argument

[Twistedspoon]

...

I cannot explain that

on my screen it does, and always has done, read doc

[Twistedspoon]

where is the certainly?

[Twistedspoon]

even you nintendo have admitted I am town at points

only when the myslynch opportunity appears do you jump aboard

When did I ever do that? Refresh my memory, when in this game have I called you town?

TS has been goodposting this game.

[Twistedspoon]

lemme change to mafsilver and have a look

[Twistedspoon]

still reads doc to me

I don't know why you can't see the certainly isn't on the next line as I planned it to

[Twistedspoon]

even you nintendo have admitted I am town at points

only when the myslynch opportunity appears do you jump aboard

When did I ever do that? Refresh my memory, when in this game have I called you town?

TS has been goodposting this game.

Wow, one post. Okay, why don't I go and find all of the posts where I said otherwise?

shrug

I'm a doc

would I have claimed doc in this situation if I wasn't one? bound to be lynched were you not a doc?

no

[Twistedspoon]

still reads doc to me

I don't know why you can't see the certainly isn't on the next line as I planned it to

Still reads DoD to me.

Let me ask you something:

How good are you with computers? html code and such?

terrible. You can't even use it since it's disabled in posts etc.
where's the certainly though That is supposed to start line 3?

shall we just see how it appears on everyone else's screen?

[Twistedspoon]

If I wasn't a genuine doc I would never have claimed it. It's just the worst fakeclaim to use in this situation. what madness would have driven me to do it as scum?

these posts all make sense when you consider I'm a doc

I have never been so 50/50 over a claim, but then again, I've never been in this position before

...

actually

UNVOTE:

my brain is so messed up now...

Hikari, if i was a doc in this situation I wouldn't counterclaim

as well as all my other quotes just after you claimed

[Twistedspoon]

If I wasn't a genuine doc I would never have claimed it. It's just the worst fakeclaim to use in this situation. what madness would have driven me to do it as scum?

these posts all make sense when you consider I'm a doc

I have never been so 50/50 over a claim, but then again, I've never been in this position before

...

actually

UNVOTE:

my brain is so messed up now...

Hikari, if i was a doc in this situation I wouldn't counterclaim

as well as all my other quotes just after you claimed

If you told Link in this situation you

wouldn't

counterclaim, then why did you claim?
Your story is full of holes.

I've explained this

I was forced to due to the growing wagon on me

that wasn't there before

[Twistedspoon]

well kudos to you scripter. I have no clue as to how to do what you just did

but my crumb is genuine

I expect others too see it as I do and your screen to be a mystery. Everyone needs to check

[Twistedspoon]

my whole screen if that helps

still says Doc

[Twistedspoon]

but isn't the html thing minimised or somthing?

i don't know

we'll just have to wait for others to see for themselves

[Twistedspoon]

timeater's point about 2 docs for an SK is the reason why he wants massclaim i think

[Twistedspoon]

zdnek, am I dod or doc to you?

[Twistedspoon]

i really want to draw attention to something but if i did town would suffer.

just do it

we've suffered enough by 80% of us already claiming

any extra info must be a good thing

also it feels good to finally get it off of your chest, like I just did :p

[Twistedspoon]

>_>

why did you want to draw attention to that?

[Twistedspoon]

dare I continue down this line of discussion?

[Twistedspoon]

we should hydra sometime timeater. you're absolutely mad. I like it

but seriously, where did this cop thing come from dare I ask?

[Twistedspoon]

now it makes sense see

Nintendo is the white mage and myself the doc

i guess white mage is harder to crumb :p

Time, why are you so sure we have a cop?
4 PRs seems enough and average tbh And the slot you say is cop already claimed vt

The mini normal I ran had 4 PRs

[Twistedspoon]

hmm

must be a roleblocker then...

[Twistedspoon]

my vote is still on hellhound

I prefer it there

[Twistedspoon]

well for the record it isn't 2 docs

I just knew it made no sense after nintendo claimed his role. but I claimed mine anyways. It was the right thing to do.

I think scum have an RB. we'll see

For the record, I see dom, TS, so that's still a no go on the crumb.

so....

doc, dod, dow, dom

next time, I'm doing letters at starts of sentences, not lines :p

[Twistedspoon]

Maru, Nintendo's 99.9% town for sure

firstly, I don't know why, but It's not just nintendo who doesn't see 'doc'. He's even print-screened so...
It seems an odd problem and one I will bring up in the mafia discussion forum after this game ends.

secondly, white mage is a new role to me, but that's just it. Scum usually play safe and claim roles that are actually known. This claim is 100% town
in fact, nintendo going back on his doc claim to say white mage is even more town as scum don't go back on their claims at all. It's too scummy

my vote stays on hellhound.

[Twistedspoon]

IT WAS THE FIRST 3 LETTERS OF THE FIRST 3 LINES

READ THE POST

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3346379

No it wasn't, you should go read it. The first three letters of the first three lines spell 'DoD'

Are you fucking blind?

http://www.diigo.com/item/image/1c74l/itae

we've been through this

nintendo is as blind as I or you are, and I actually feel bad for calling him blind when on his screen, i don't know why, but it does read Dod

[Twistedspoon]

i typed "white mage" into the search engine of the wiki. nothing came up. this ain't a theme game. nice try.

that's exactly why scum wouldn't claim it

because it would be suicide, claiming a non-existant role

therefore Nintendo is genuine

nintendo is town, for sure. I am prepared to die for this

[Twistedspoon]

either way though, he's a good lynch and ts is probtown who will draw the nk.

considering the shakiness and suspicion I have drawn today, I doubt this

it's probably best if I'm vig'd to be honest rather than left alive by scum to create wifom.

[Twistedspoon]

secondly, white mage is a new role to me, but that's just it. Scum usually play safe and claim roles that are actually known. This claim is 100% town
in fact, nintendo going back on his doc claim to say white mage is even more town as scum don't go back on their claims at all. It's too scummy

my vote stays on hellhound.

you have this backwards. he's making this shit up. this is the normal forum. i don't think obscure roles rear their head here. the two mafia neighbors in mathemafia is not the norm. most likely, nintendo claimed doc, outed you, realized he's still going to get lynched and so is now making a last ditch effort to buy himself some time. whether or not he read your crumb properly is irrelevant and maru is scummy for making a big deal out of it. just hammer nintendo. living players can clean this mess up tomorrow. claiming white mage is by no means suicide. not claiming white mage and trying to play off two docs is suicide. nintendo is trying not to die and he's also offering up a reason why link won't be dead tomorrow. link/nintendo ain't unheard of. put on your big boy pants and do this.

Hey zdnek, weren't you a role called an 'echo' once In a mini normal we were in together?

If so could you hold that thought a sec.

[Twistedspoon]

yeah, zdnek is a living piece of proof that new roles can be in mini normals all the time

[Twistedspoon]

stay with me here don

[Twistedspoon]

I'd like to show you 2 links don

firstly:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3068301

in this mini normal zdnek was given the role 'echo'

search for that role on the wiki and you'll fins zilch. Just like if you search white mage

yet that role occurred and in a mini normal too

so why not nintendo's?

the second link is this

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ormal_game

if you read one of the bullet points you'll see

"New/variant roles may be included in limited number (no more than 1 in a Mini, 2 in a Large), and should be based on the usual role mechanics: Killing, Protecting, Investigating, Blocking, Voting, Enabling and Communication"

so under the normal games legislation white mage can and does exist for the purpose of this game

nintendo, I fell I have just proved you town

zdnek of all people should realise new roles can be in mini normals

and I'm sorry for calling you a douche, dj. I was annoyed at the time, not that that excuses me.

[Twistedspoon]

spoon: stop being such a wet blanket. you do realize that if he flips town then you are getting lynched tomorrow? everything you do from here on out screws us 100% if you are both town. so man up and hammer.

no don, nintendo is town for sure

SINCE WHEN DID SCUM CLAIM MAD ROLES LIKE WHITE MAGE?

lynch me before you lynch nintendo

I have never been so sure about a read in my lige

[Twistedspoon]

*in my life

[Twistedspoon]

there is no reason for white mage not to exist and it proves nintendo town

hellhound is still scummy as idon'tknowhwat

he should go

not the obvtownie

[Twistedspoon]

no it isn't

vegas Mafia is just the flavour, not roles

flavour in role PMs is forbidden in mini normals

trust me here Time; nintendo isn't stupid enough to claim an unheard of role in this situation. No scum makes roles up.

the next thing for us is a hellhound lynch. If nintendo says alive then we'll play your game

but I have never before been so sure about a town read. And this has come from the doc 'who shouldn't exist' I'll have you know