[Mini 1205] Tough Guy Mafia - Game Over!

[Fenix]

/confirm

I'm reading the thread right now, depending on when I finish I'll give my overview tonight or tomorrow. In the meantime, if there is anything you'd like to ask me feel free.

[Fenix]

I'd like to ask you why your slot is voting el simo-town instead of Lobster Catapult-scum.

Unvote: el simo

I honestly don't know. His cited reasons were non-sensical, and I personally have a town read on el simo.

Right now I don't know what to think about Wicked's claim, but it behooves us to keep him alive today on the off-chance we can get another couple investigations in. Oh, and HH's miller claim was retracted, so that doesn't imply a cop in the game. That and millers generally aren't told so in their role PM.

HH's miller claim is concerning for several reasons, even if it was retracted. For one, he retracted it very soon after he made it AND very early in the game. Which means he gained virtually nothing from it. Meaning it was pure fluff. Another thing that bothers me about HH: He's still pushing hard for a Wicked lynch despite the claim. I admit I have my doubts about Wicked's claim myself, but this doesn't change the fact that the best course of action which is to wait one day and see how things turn out. Pushing an un-CCed PR lynch is very concerning (as he very well might be our last PR). Everyone on his wagon deserves some suspicion (for now), but

especially

HH.

[Fenix]

I'm actually from this site (I have around 10 games experience, more than half of that replace-ins), I've just never seen a miller who knew about his role.

I still find voting for potential PRs scummy even if their suspicions say otherwise. If your scumdar ever pings 90% without a mod-confirm then your scumdar's broken.

My thoughts on Lobster: She's done an effective job of throwing around suspicions without holding on to any of them, as well as being very general/vague and conflicted. Posts like this are just... terrible. It boils down to "I agree. Oh, but maybe not. Tee hee!". Her votes are very flighty and impulsive. My gut says likely scum but I can't find any solid reasons to vote her other then being a wildcard and voting a potential PR (perhaps her contradictory statements concerning Wicked would be a reason). I'm definitely willing to vote her if it comes down to her or Wicked.

[Fenix]

I have a couple accounts, but here's my most recent/relevant one - Chaotic Neutrality

@Ethos:

I would agree with you except we already lost a PR and I don't fully believe his claim. I said let's wait one day. PRs have no way to come out safely except for the fact that we take PR claims seriously. If he dies in the night, his claim was true. If he doesn't, we have either scum or another confirmed alignment. It's win-win.

Vote: Lobster Catapult

[Fenix]

In #731 Fenix says he doesn't know what to make of the Wickeds claim, says he has suspicion towards Wicked but doesn't think it's best to pursue today however finds those pushing him suspicious. In #733 he states that voting a PR claim is suspicious. In #736 he says he doesn't believe Wickeds claim fully but again doesn't want him lynched.

You're presenting this as if it isn't consistent. Except it is. Wicked, if he's alive tomorrow, should either be lynched or rigorously questioned. He is suspicious, yes, but he's also potentially our last PR and that means we should be less reckless and more thorough. I can doubt Wicked's claim and still not want him lynched.

[Fenix]

Basically you're dead wrong. I'm town.

And that's exactly what you'd say regardless of alignment. That statement doesn't help us.

I think that I've actually ignored most of the people in this game

That's a problem.

i dont understand why you sited that post of me being noncomittal. im plenty noncomittal, just not there. and i am somwhat impulsive, but i have had good reasons for every vote ive cast

You lead with two sentences that contradicted each other, and then admitted impulsiveness but denied lack of reasoning. You vote on the fly. Like just now. Speaking of which...

i throw my vote around where i think it best suits town
...
im going to

unvote

vote:fenix

I've read the thread, your votes have switched between the most popular wagon and the least popular wagon, and it doesn't seem to agree with your suspicions all the way either. I find it very hard to believe you're voting with the best interest of the town in mind.

Tonight Wicked will investigate me and tomorrow he will tell you all he got innocent but it's ok I must just be the godfather then.

Can't be. Ethos is the godfather. And as before, if Wicked investigates you, I will lynch him.

I tried to find where you suddenly decided that Ethos was the godfather. Found it.

Ethos is cleared by Wicked, so is obviously godfather.

And this is in full context. No explanation, no reasoning, just an unsupported assertion. I hope this isn't a serious statement. Or at the very least I hope you can back it up.

@all of you trying to push connections only cases:

they don't work. In order for someone to be scummy they have to have something they have done which is scummy. Connections should sway the vote with a strength proportional to the connection, but they are not in and of themselves reasons for votes. Please stop this illogical non-sense. Also, to those of you pushing for "If X is mafia, Y is mafia" cases: they don't work either. It's a giant WIFOM sandwich that scum love to screw you with. Logical deductions are perfectly fine (top three suspects, if one isn't scum the other two likely are, etc.), but even still, half of the case is useful AFTER a flip, and the other half is mostly fluff/skewing opinions.

[Fenix]

Most scum PRs can't kill and use their power, can they?

[Fenix]

I swear I've posted this three times now.

I'm a VT.

The only confirmed town, if Wicked is a cop, is Ethos, Wicked, and tarson. I find it odd that HH would claim miller now of all times to claim miller.

[Fenix]

EBWOP: Nevermind, that was a quote from one of HH's first posts. They've since retracted it. What information they gained is beyond me, but they've been consistent, at least for a while now.

[Fenix]

I didn't remember who claimed miller originally, but looking through my "these posts were made, would you like to make some changes to your post?" posts, it would appear he claimed miller (again). You'll notice I fixed my error asap.

[Fenix]

One post, error fixed, and you scream scum. This behavior is irrational and it's distracting to the rest of the town.

[Fenix]

I didn't claim scum, why would that help anyone? I've been very clear, I'm a VT. It's a little early for reindeer games

On a serious note:

Wicked - Cop
Ethos - VT and cop-confirmed town
tarson - VT and cop-confirmed town
el simo - VT
Fenix (myself) - VT
Krazy - VT
HH - VT (has not confirmed this since the mass-claim)

The possibility of a godfather, while slight, cannot be completely dismissed. One of you is scum, which means we only have 2(?) mislynches left. Going off of my previous town read on el simo, that leaves me personally with either Krazy (who's slot has been very shy and timid) or HH. I will be looking into those slots over the next couple days. When it's not 12:40 in the morning on a school night.

[Fenix]

Krazy's slot as occupied by KKN went something like this: RVS, meta-arguing, slight tunneling on my slot, more meta, replace out. Tommie jumped in with four "I'm going to make a post next post" posts. Krazy's done nothing to change that. If I didn't specifically ISO Krazy and his replaced predecessors, I doubt I would have even noticed his presence in this game, and he would continue to go unnoticed. His slot is likely lurker/active-lurker scum trying to stay under the radar. Slight lack of content is a null-tell, but this is beyond a simple nulltell-ridden wildcard.

Before going further, I'd like to say a couple things. I am stating very clearly:

I believe HH is the remaining scum

. I'm also re-re-re-reading their ISO as I write this next section, so feel free to read along. I will refer to them as "he" and "him" because it's much simpler that way.

HH's fake miller claim gave little in the way of information and confused the town. Even worse, after his rather enlightening (not) explanation, he defended Hez whilst attacking Yonzy. In his super-wall post as well as many of his regular posts, he has done the same (and after the Yonzy lynch, Hez and HH become rainbow powered best friends). It's very evident that he's pushing for a polarity there (as in, Yonzy is obvscum and Hez is obvtown). Knowing both of their alignments enlightens us as to how scummy that is.

HH's reads are ridiculously backwards, calling Hez town, but consistently reading town PRs as scum (until today, of course, when he casually announces a win while bandwagoning a townie). He tunneled Wicked for over a month and a half just to drop it within a day, when tunneling PRs fails to suit his purposes. Also, rapid vote switch to me when the Krazy wagon gets no support (which, by the way, was

never

supported by HH before his vote, which had no explanation whatsoever). All of which lead me to the conclusion that HH is our remaining scum.

VOTE: Horrifying Hero

[Fenix]

You could say the same about HH, who hasn't posted in 4.5 days.

[Fenix]

Or if you're counting absences by content, anyone in the last three days besides myself and tarson.

[Fenix]

jesus christ wicked you suspect two people, ones at L-1, one has no votes.

Which one should you be voting?

Of his options, one would end the day, and any other would continue discussion. Your call.

[Fenix]

We have a week.

This setup has a bodyguard, vig, and cop on the town side. The scum side has a hider. There is the moderate possibility of a godfather with the aforementioned roles, along with Krazy (who's slot has yet to do anything this game) and HH (who's been consistently confusing the town this entire game). There's

plenty

to discuss. And you refuse to take part in any of it.

[Fenix]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p3396485

[Fenix]

Ethos is the only one blabbering about an SK.

[Fenix]

I knew the mafia were screwed as soon as the results of night 2 were posted. =/

[Fenix]

If a hider hides behind someone who dies, they die as well. So basically I wound up

shooting myself in the foot

killing my partner along with Magua.

[Fenix]

Especially in this game where the town had so many roles that could get the Hider in trouble for either hiding or not hiding, the Hider seemed pretty neutral in terms of power balance (barely more powerful than a goon). Whereas the town had a protective, killing, and investigative role.

Not saying that's why we lost. But it didn't help =/