Mini 1252 - My Not So Humble Abode - Game Over

[Rainbowdash]

Hey everypony! Dash here. I have a long day ahead of me and got roped into teaching some fillies tomorrow so I will be a little quiet until then.

FoS

for the "BANDWAGON GO!" btw

Hello, everyone, will keep up with this thread, but my next post will be when we get over this boring RVS/RVQ stage.

Congrats! You can post. RVS is over.

Vote Protector

Rope.

Wagon.

Go.

[Rainbowdash]

Do you not find "BANDWAGON GO!" with a bandwagon vote to be a scum tell? It indicates nervousness that his vote will be seen in a bad light, which goes against a "I'm town and I am performing actions that are natural for a townie to perform" mindset.

No it doesnt.

Wagons are great and an essential part of the early game, I want one on you right now.

You however are apparently calling him scummy for the "Bandwagon Ho" comment but are not voting him, instead seeming to give him a joking FoS. That reads like nervousness that your moving your vote will be seen in a bad light, which goes against a "I'm town and I am performing actions that are natural for a townie to perform" mindset. I see no reason why you are not voting that pony at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Fake-Edit: Wow, I got Ninja'd by Rainbowdash, lame.

Im the fastest in all of Ponyville. Probably all of Equestria.

@Protector - Why is saying "I am not going to participate in RVS" scummy? I hate the RVS, which is why I try to kill it ASAP. Are you arguing that the wagon vote

without

him saying it was a wagon vote would have been a good thing?

How about explaining th TSG vote indepth? You have had no problem trying to lay out why your FoS is on scum but I have no idea why your vote is where it is.

[Rainbowdash]

@Protector - So is the tell on SGR enough to lynch that pony at this point?

@Wierd - Did you actually read the whole game already?

[Rainbowdash]

@TSG - How about you give us a complete rundown of what you think of Johman and Protector at this point?

unvote
Vote Weird

There is one semi-acceptable thing against johman here, rest is null tells.

[Rainbowdash]

Wait, sorry, rofl.

I meant:

I think Protector is probably Town at this point.

Not sure about Johman yet, but not feeling like unvoting.

A complete rundown should me more then ten words. Especially for a "not sure but don't want to unvote" read.

[Rainbowdash]

@Draken - Thoughts on TSGR? On Wierd?

[Rainbowdash]

On TSGRaisin, I got nothing substantial.
...
Weirdbeard's beard is weird. That's about all I have on him...

Nothing?

Really?

What about johman?

Protector?

Anypony?

Unvote
Vote Draken

[Rainbowdash]

Also we're less than 24 hours in. One thing about mafia is everyone jumps onto miniscule tells that mean little. While I don't doubt this is very helpful in causing larger tells to emerge, I find it rather difficult make a fuss over what is simply not that big by itself.

So zero reads? I mean, volume wise we are probably at least 5% of the way through this game.

What did you think of the early wagon on Protector? The johman wagon?

Stuff has been happening. I cannot believe you have zero reads at this point, even 'weak' ones.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow... as much as I love ponies this is not the place for posting pictures of them...
Also we're less than 24 hours in. One thing about mafia is everyone jumps onto miniscule tells that mean little. While I don't doubt this is very helpful in causing larger tells to emerge, I find it rather difficult make a fuss over what is simply not that big by itself.

Completely disagree. At first I hated them too but they grow on you. She always has a knack for picking the right pic for the discussion too.

I'm still annoyed she says pony instead of body. Plus she will never be as cool as the Rockstar.

Well I couldn't give the type of response I wanted to this because I wasn't near my normal computer due to trying to teach some fillies how to do sciency stuff, how somepony like me got roped into that I dunno, but its kinda awesome I guess.

But ANYWAYS



yay.

Also im 20% cooler then rockstar here.

Once we get a post again from Dekes I will get this game on the road. Want to make sure im reading right there first, have a couple town reads down at this point and just want to tie up the rest of them. In the meantime

@SB - Thoughts on Johman, and the way his wagon went? Have you played with hydras before?
@Beck - Thoughts on Protector and the way that wagon went?
@Wierd - Give me your version of the Johman case. This means you are not allowed to quote anypony but Johman when you make it.

[Rainbowdash]

@SB - Thoughts on Johman, and the way his wagon went? Have you played with hydras before?

On his wagon, I dont agree with protectors reasons, I feel he has no conviction behind his posting and is somewhat pressured into it because he FOS Johman but pushed on TSSR and is now backtracking back to protect himself from scrutiny from yourself, TSGR and Johman (all of you criticized/voted him over it) Palmer's reasoning makes sense...but I dont understand why he posted twice with no explanation and only gave one after pushed on it. I'd assume if one would want to convince others with their vote. Weirdbeard has signed on to this case. None of its strong enough for me at the moment.

Ok so you are calling Johman null-town maybe? Can you give me more of a read on Weird and Palmer?

@TSGR - Vote somepony and give a small case on them.

[Rainbowdash]

One more

@Weird - You call the Protector response to what I put up "understandable", yet you keep your vote on him until Johman wagon picks up speed. Why?

[Rainbowdash]

Thoughts on Lurkers, both the ones who post and the active ones who post irrelevance. And with that in mind the less active players on here?

Too early to get concerned about lurkers, give it another 48 hours or so and we can talk.

[Rainbowdash]

@ dashie I am not sure exactly what wagon you are talking about so let's see if this suffices

So first, im going to actually ask you ponies not to call me Dashie. Its a shortening of my name that only one pony ever uses more than once in a blue moon. Seeing everypony calling me that is just kinda freaking me out a little. Not sure why, but its making me very uncomfortable.

I will let you know where im at about a lot once Draken responds to me, want a post that isn't influenced by me first. Have a pretty decent sized post planned here.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok.

Early game was great because we have multiple ponies that are very strong town reads from it all

Johman is almost for sure town. The case against him is horrible. Honestly guys it makes no freaking sense, if Johman is scum this is like the definiton of somepony getting lucky with a null tell. Random stage wagons are essential to the game, what do you expect if there are no random wagons? Everypony throws dice and then we move on from there? Johman did absolutely nothing wrong here and has kept some very impressive composure defending himself from all yall, something im pretty sure I would not have done there. The only thing that is stopping me from going off tilt destroying the wagon on him is parts of 39 which really doesn't make much sense.

The case on Johman is very bad, especially parts from Palmar. I mean, "Sheeped someponys RVS reason so it looked like he was saying something"? Really? Thats a tell!? Then there is repition of the "Bandwagoning is bad" arguement. Its an RVS wagon, announcing that its an RVS wagon really doesn't defeat the purpose of it too much. Heck I dont mind somepony wagoning for the sake of wagoning somepony they dont see as a beacon of towniness somewhat into the game. I just..



I just really am not sure why you ponies are so worked up over Johman.

Sad part is that Protector and Palmar seem really convinced that they caught scum, and I almost have to say they are likely town because of it, Protector noticeably moreso. Enough for beating up on the Johman wagon though, if I need to come back and really pull ponies off him I will, but for now I want you to let him be before I do something more drastic to defend him.

Onto scum:

I have been running around between wierdbeard, Dekan, TSGR and SB.

Deakon I think is just a newbie who really doesn't know what he is doing read wise at this point, and I actually think him moving against me instead of trying to figure out exactly what I want from him is more of a town tell then a scum tell. Usually newbies see somepony coming at them guns blazing they aren't going to put up a stand directly to that pony. While its a weak one and he really needs to be watched and/or have comments dragged out of him, think there is a decent chance he is town. Gut cant let go of his early posts though.

SB probably falls off the list next, but lean this pony scum, back and forth moreso then the next pony im going to cover. I REALLY disliked his first content post, and still am not at all a big fan of him continually ignoring the elephants in the room that are Protector and Johman. It took me specifically bringing up Johman before I even got him to talk about anything that pony has done that has nothing to do with hydra-ing, even then I got a really vauge answer. Again with Palmar he dodged the question about what he really thinks about him, although this time he uses a lack of evidence move.

He stays really interested in 'lurkers' though even though this game has only been open what... 36 hours at this point? I know I tend to be a very active pony so me going away for that period of time is noticeable, but someponies wont post daily due to life commitments. I think faulting somepony on this without good evidence that they are intentionally avoiding the game is bad. He also keeps using this as an excuse to not follow up on any game suspicion, like what he appears to have on wierdbeard.

TSGR is bad too, but this can just be useless pony bad who needs to contribue or get rope/bullet. Biggest thing here is between post 46 where we had

@Protector: You are arguing why Johman is wrong, not really why he's Mafia.

Fake-Edit: Yeah, I gotta agree with the post above me, it kinda does look you are looking for reasons to vote.

but then

I like it.

Unvote

Vote: Johman

Die, scum

The difference here is that Palmar made his case on Johman, which is basically just a rehash but with bad points tacked on to it. This feels like a really blatant wagon jump since TSGR was agreeing with Johman just a little bit ago.

He does back off on it though which is why we are going to here with the grand finale instead of somewhere else

Unvote
Vote Weirdbeard

yay (yes I listen to that as I write most of my posts)

Going to split this up over a couple posts just so everypony isnt quite as bombarded with words. If I didn't mention anypony it means I have no good read on them either way.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok then! Its late, im tired, I have a whole stack of midterms to grade tomorrow by noon, but lets do this!

Wierd is scum.

From his first post

In lieu of anything better to go on, I'm going to put my vote this way too. If you found it scummy, why not vote him?

While this is mirroring what I had, it misses something key that had happened since my points. Protector had actually responded to me already a few times about why he was keeping his vote on TSGR. It makes this vote feel like far more of a blatant sheep since he make no attempt to actually further the case or ask any direct questions to Protector that I haven't.

Protector's explanation does seem pretty reasonable, actually.

This matched with no unvote has me starting to feel pretty paranoid about this pony. He sheeped me onto Protector as stated before, so to come off him like he did something big happened right?

Nah.

This is all we had from Protector between the two posts

I refuse to answer that question after I'm sure I've answered it more than once in this thread. If that was meant to be a rhetorical question for effect, then you should probably take my answer and say why my reasoning makes me more likely to be scum.

So what made him change his mind on Protector is him saying "I refuse to answer the question". How can that make anypony change a scum read to a null-town read? I don't see how it can make town change. Nothing really even connected to Protector happened between the posts apart from Johman voting that pony. So there should be no reason for this opinion change, and I want it explained in depth.

Wierd isnt done yet though, its time to hop to a new wagon, this time Johman for the really bad case from Palmar that I already pointed out. Johman immediately raises the good point that

again

wierd fails to even acknowledge that the pony being pushed has responded to the case from their aggressor. More very blatant sheeping.

I never said it's a strong case, but it's still a case. I could have my vote on no-one, or I could make someone sweat a bit, and potentially screw up. I've been satisfied by Protector's defence so far, so I don't feel that's where my vote should stay, hence I'm voting for Johman.

Pressured and backs down immediately. This also highlights a second part of why wierd is scum, he is refusing to scumhunt. While I have no problem with sheeping at all, wierd is flat out refusing to scumhunt there. Twice now he has passed up on opportunities to expand on cases, and instead just waited for the original pusher to do work for him.



Wagons that direction

@Johman - If one of Protector and Palmar is scum its going to be Palmar, but its probably neither. Especially if wierd is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't like 2birds1stone's faulty logic. He could be fishing for a mislynch, (the idea that we're a scumteam together based on some day 1 votes together is ludicrous). However, I do find it interesting that he voted for Palmar rather myself. I would seem to be the obvious target here, with Rainbowdash casting doubt on me and Johman having effectively FoSed me.

See now im not sure how you come to that conclusion.

You are saying he is less scummy for not voting you?

Also responding to what I said, in particular the reason you moved from Protector to Johman would be nice to hear since there was next to nothing between those two posts.

Ponies constantly more brushing off my case on wierd is not going to go over well. If you can't tell, I like being payed attention to.

@TSGR - Explain your town read on Weird

[Rainbowdash]

There was no point staying on protector once he'd posted his defence. His defence was fine which pretty much left me in the dark as to where to go next.

So you are arguing now that this

I refuse to answer that question after I'm sure I've answered it more than once in this thread.

Is a solid defense?

Im not following your logic behind the switch here.

Can you give me a rundown of scum and town reads of yours?

@Beck - Gameplay meta is better then post game meta. How does this match up to WB-town?

[Rainbowdash]

This is making me a little twitchy.

@Draken - Can you make a clean flowing case on Weird instead of what you have?

unvote

Theres like three ponies not caught up. We aren't lynching until then, especially when one of the ponies has his RVS vote on wierd. You can consider my vote on wierd for all practical purposes, although Draken still really is giving me bad vibes.

[Rainbowdash]

Whats difference between wierd "buddying" whatever pony you are saying he buddied and me calling a few people town flat out?

[Rainbowdash]

Try to elaborate with quotes contrasting the differences in that case, since "the manner" doesn't mean too much to me by itself.

If you have some questions about terminology ask me though, despite the fact that I have technically been here the quite a bit less then anypony less, I think I have site down pretty well already.

[Rainbowdash]

So sheeping is bad?

I just am trying to figure out why you are pushing on him because between tiredness, friendship lubricant (+1 point to anypony who gets this) and just general confusion I dont get it.

If I have it right: You are saying at least one of the ponies who sheeped Palmar, who you see as town, has to be scum in this situation. After looking at it you think it is more likely wierd.

Why does somepony sheeping Palmar need to be scum? Why is Palmar town? Why wierd? What if wierd is town?

[Rainbowdash]

Ok im going to nip this one in the tail right now before things get bad.

Johman - Stop it. Now.

What happened to the early version of you that actually had something I like to call composure? That makes the game not only readable from a netural standpoint, making everypony more willing to stay in and contribute, but it also makes you and others readable. When it becomes personal, all that goes away. It makes everypony less willing to post, and kills my ability to get better reads on poines, with the current exchange between Deaken and Wierd, I need all that ability I can get.

Plus I need to help in defending myself, and really, why does it bother you that Wierd is calling me not super town? Im not even super concerned about him not calling me obvious town, especially since it seems connected to you who I have a town read on.

Keep it civil everypony.

[Rainbowdash]

I want the vollkan head of Edgar to post, and also want to know who was making the first few posts from that hydra. I think I will be ready to vote after that.

@TSGR - Don't encourage them. We can go with this for entertainment though -

Give me a indepth read of the following poines, that means more then one or two sentances: Edgar, Johman and Palmar.



Go

[Rainbowdash]

Yes... Well done... That's what I have difficulty with, I'm doing my best no need to remind me... That was a fluff post.

Try a stream of conciousness post. If I have a hard time or am pretty confused they tend to help me get my thoughts collected. Just start typing what you are thinking as it comes up about other ponies and what their play means, sometimes it can just cause something to click, and it also helps everypony else get more intune with what your thought process is, and that helps me at least get reads on others.

Oh im also not changing my playstyle. Its what makes me me.

[Rainbowdash]

-Rainbow you took your vote of weirdbeard because he was put to L-1 which makes sense, would your vote still go to him at the moment or are you onto something else?

Maybe. Im wondering about something else right now. Should know for sure in a couple days. Would not be upset with a wierd lynch at any length. Once everypony responds to my last few questions I will give reads again, no town ones are changing but new ponies are pinging.

Also there is no new episode this week. After the Discord part 1/2 its in a break until the 15th. Don't go getting my hopes up that I read something wrong like that.

[Rainbowdash]

did you have any for me? Cause I might have missed that?

Nope, just waiting around for a couple post to affirm what I am thinking or make me fall back on original thoughts.

Also +points for using Discord Fluttershy, that was a very funny character.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote TSGR
Buck Edgar

I still think Johman is likely town here just due to his early game response to the stupid push on him. I would actually like racer to either get civil or get out of the game because I want to be able to keep that slot safe, which he is going to make difficult, but I like the other head posts.

2B1S is fairly on track for why I don't like Edgar at all. The fact that his first few posts seem out of sequence too.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh also for the "bus and defend" comment, thats not a scumtell on Johman unless the pony in question, Draken, flips scum first. If Draken is town how could anypony be "defending and bussing" him?

[Rainbowdash]

Just one thing I noted last page.
@Rainbow, the bus and defend scenario I think was concerning Weird and I, not Johman and I.

I thought it was Johman saying that wierd was bussing/defending you. Which got called a scumtell on Johman for saying that you were scum regardless. Either way if the bus/defend was on you, it all falls apart without you being flipped scum first.

Vote explaination comes later.

I still want full input from a few more ponies since what I say here will effect their responses if they are scum.

[Rainbowdash]

@Edgar - What I want to focus on is the incongruancy of you agreeing with my post on Protector early while not commenting on anything until after I did. What happened there?

Can probably get my case on TSGR made out tonight, just a little depressed since my picture database got autosaged so all those pictures are dead now. I got new ones though.

[Rainbowdash]

Sorry to hear about your pics, even more sorry you replaced them

It just gets nuked every two-three months due to database size or something like that, once it gets to around 2000. I already got more though so im back.



Oh, im back.

[Rainbowdash]

@TSGR - Can you explain what fake edit means?

[Rainbowdash]

Ok, so im voting TSGR based on a few things that make absolutely no sense.

1) His vote on Johman. He voted him after the case by Palmar. This case was a complete rehash of what had already been said regarding Johman, there was nothing new here at all, just points that we had covered and Johman had already responded to (and I had mocked). This inital Johman vote came right after basically agreeing with him about quite a few points. TSGR quickly backs off Johman though, but leaves his vote there. When pressed on this he entirely avoids the issue.

2) His big read post bugs me too. A few points in particular. The first is the reasoning for the Deaken vote, which includes such reasoning as 'has Protector as gut town' and 'thinks Dash is scum'. I do not understand how either of those can be scum tells. The Protector read TSGR agrees with him over, and I cannot see how not seeing me as town is a scum tell.

That removed, he seems to just have everypony as null-ish reads, infact the only pony he has as some sort of a scum read is Draken. Even this read is amazingly weak and TSGR is leaving himself the ability to back out already.

3) His Palmar vote was bad, and Palmar called his reaction perfectly for what it was. TSGR makes a move, takes a whole lot of counterpressure, and immediately falls right back off. Interestingly enough he keeps ending up on Deaken, who probably will give him the least amount of an issue in being able to be lynched. He moves on to simply calling Draken "scummy as buck" though.

4) Right now he is backing out of the game. His recent posts have just been filler regarding the arguements that are starting up. Arugements lose town games because it destracts from everything else. Wagons are shifting and he is sitting there oblivious to it all, eating his popped corn.

I could live with an Edgar push here, but TSGR seems to be hopping around between easy wagons while not actually doing anything to push any of them. He keeps giving reads, but thats where it stops. Most of those reads are very 'weak' to as shown in his large posts where everypony was slight something or null.

@TSGR - Give me a case on Draken.

[Rainbowdash]

Out of curiosity, was there any relevance to the post before that?

Yes

Dash, what do you think of the interaction between Draken and TSGRaaize? I personally think opposite alignments or both town, but I'm not very good at reading that sort of thing.

Im going to say its a safe bet they arent both scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh great this is turning into skitzo jerk hydra. Wish I had my pictures on me to make a proper response here but im not going to start pulling up MLP pictures on a public computer in the middle of TAing a lab.

Just imagine an angry one here.

@Johman - Shut up. Seriously. You are making this game increadably unenjoyable for everypony else with your attacks here and I am actually a little disappointed that you have not been forced replaced for this behavior already. You acting like this makes it far harder for everypony to function because its creating way too much noise, I actually agree to an extent with Palmar and 2B1S about it being justifiable to policy lynch you for this type of play. Straighten up and fly right, get lynched or replace out, your choice as I could care less what we do if it means keeping this game on the tracks.

At least it accomplished showing that Palmar is probably town in all of this, joining the ranks of Protector as Johman is starting to give back the personality town tell points a bit but still just have a (seemingly unfortunate) gut town read on that pony.

Others I think are somewhat likely town here: Wierd and maybe bvoight, but that second one is pushing it.

Draken is still just a mystery to me since I tend to have a hard time reading ponies who really just seem lost.

@2B1S - Why are you suddenly interested in viability of TSGR-Draken pairings?

[Rainbowdash]

@Beck - What is your read on Draken? Last you mentioned him you were just interested in pressure but had him sitting at L-3 before you recently moved off to 2B1S? Your read on TSGR?

[Rainbowdash]

@Beck - What is your read on Draken? Last you mentioned him you were just interested in pressure but had him sitting at L-3 before you recently moved off to 2B1S? Your read on TSGR?

i'll respond to this in a little bit

Out of curiosity, how long? Day is slowing and Dash is

not

a fan of slow.

@mod

- Prod on TSGR Protector and Scumhunter? I know they arent all at 72 hours but they will soon. Game needs them to keep moving.

[Rainbowdash]

Why are we talking about math?

Can I get everyponies reads on TSGR?

[Rainbowdash]

621... 622... 623...

Ugh you ponies are so SLOW! And

boring

.

Im about ready to just say we light a fire under somponies tail who is lurking here just to keep the game going in some sane direction. I would love that to be TSGR, but would be happy with nearly any of the far to many who are avoiding contributing at this point.

Im feeling pretty coy today though. So how about these apples after a reread

unvote
Vote Johman

[Rainbowdash]

Im seeing what I can do without the borderline policy lynch first.

If we are lynching a lurker TSGR or Edgar are the two in the hot seat, but I think this might get the wheels back on the game either way

@mod

- Can you specifically prod vollkan/lew instead of just the hydra?

[Rainbowdash]

Will explain my vote later, but what I essentially did was start not liking where my reads were going. It seemed like they didn't mesh up too well. So I started trying to justify all my town reads to myself, but I really had a hard time convincing myself he was town outside of him being able to stay more composed early under BS attack pressure. Recent games though show that BS attacks still can hit scum though, so even though reasoning is weak, it can still hit scum without much of a problem.

Taking away those early town points, there isn't much left to like.

Just dont want to do 'lurker lynch' or anything at this point, unless they continue to skirt by with 'im here' posts. That keeps up fire away at them.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote TSGR
Buck Edgar

Im just shelving the Johman thing I wrote up. I think I more want that pony to be scum because he is pissing me off a whole lot right now, not because he is obviously scum. While I do no longer have much of a town read there, I do realize its probably not the best way to move about the game here doing a utility lynch on the first day.

TSGR didn't respond to me, at all. Lets see if he will now.

It time to get a legitimate wagon going here. Everypony join up.

2B1S wagon should die off now.
Draken one too.

@Edgar - Can I get a content filled post from vollkan here?
@TSGR - Put the null reads in your list where null is then.

[Rainbowdash]

Draken
2birds1stone
Beck

Scummiest

So ummm....

Why are you voting Draken?

Now I know you said those three ponies are your top reads, but obviously there is a difference or you would have used the exact same copout you used against Edgar and Scumhunter there.

[Rainbowdash]

2) His big read post bugs me too. A few points in particular. The first is the reasoning for the Deaken vote, which includes such reasoning as 'has Protector as gut town' and 'thinks Dash is scum'. I do not understand how either of those can be scum tells. The Protector read TSGR agrees with him over, and I cannot see how not seeing me as town is a scum tell.

By the time he posted that, you were the most obv-town ever, that has since changed.

So then why is he scum now?

That removed, he seems to just have everypony as null-ish reads, infact the only pony he has as some sort of a scum read is Draken. Even this read is amazingly weak and TSGR is leaving himself the ability to back out already.

Nope, quite the opposite, I have a town-read on almost everyone, which sucks.

I dont conisder things like "null-town" to be town reads. Also almost everypony? What changed for Beck and 2B1S between your inital read post and your last one?

Also you need to still explain why you are voting Draken over Beck and 2B1S who you distinguish as top picks here.

Draken wagon should die because even though its mostly town fueled, I think that pony is going to be town. Somewhat of Derpy town, but some of his posts and actions make a whole lot more sense coming from town, lest you want to argue that he is scum who cant tell the difference between threat levels of an apple and a parasprite.

2B1S wagon isnt as bad, but I have a little bit of a gut town read remaining on that pony.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't like Draken AT ALL. I don't like his L-1 vote on me and more importantly, I don't like the switch in his play. Why be utterly neutral and then put someone to one vote from a hammer with such terrible reasoning. I can see him being noobtown, yeah, but I don't see why he'd shift in the way he plays so much unless he's fishing for a mislynch.

Elaborate for me on some of this. What switch in play and what exactly is scummy about it?

[Rainbowdash]

I would rather hear an up to date version and why you are voting him over 2B1S at this point. Call it whatever you want but I would much rather hear some nice little mini case then look back and try to piece together what you were thinking a hundred posts ago.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm really useless this game. Someone engage me. I trust teh pony. Tell me what to do.

Wish I knew myself more then I really do.

I like the wagon you are on quite a bit, Edgar continues to really make me feel uncomfortable, maybe in part because I know that vollkan is a very good player and he is doing absolutely nothing here, but my hackles have been up for a long time about that pony. Something feels very wrong from that slot.

TSGR I think is a decent enough spot for a vote. His votes and suspicions really don't seem to add up much to me at this point.

Going to have to reread this sometime tonight

*sigh*

I dont like having to reread stuff. Not even a fan on initially reading stuff.

[Rainbowdash]

Even though it's probably not intentional, I think Draken is going to successfully lurk away the wagon here, and I don't want that to happen. While TSG and 2birds are also suspects of mine, I'm not convinced of their scumminess in the same way I am with Draken

Can you give me a rundown on him then? Im a little torn since I like (most) of the wagon on him, but at the same time I really don't see anything that distiguishes him as Derpy-scum instead of Derpy-town here. There are even a few lines from him that I think are more likely to come from town.

[Rainbowdash]

I think the single biggest reason that I think Draken is town is the way he reacted soon after the vote on wierd that I challenged him on. He looked genuinely lost and confused about what went down. While I do realize that scum having the cloud yanked out from under thier hooves could take it poorly, there was no real recover there, and he actually pushed back at me a whole lot more then I would expect scum to do. I think he would realize as scum that the better thing to do would be to try and appease me and go from there isntead of try and buck back.

He also seems unsure of what to do with himself for the most part. I actually see that as quite the town tell, as scum you normally have a few plans for most situations and while you will change tactics, its harder to be a complete loss as to what is going on, and its very hard to SELL that you are at a complete loss as to what is going on. Im actually going to venture out a bit and say that Draken is newbie-town who is way in over his head right now.

Also

@mod

- Next week, especially the tail end of it, can get really busy for me. I expect to be able to post but Wednesday/Thursday there is a legitimate chance of completely disappearing.

[Rainbowdash]

Hmmmmmm

Its time to do two awesome things all at the same time here

First and formost, its mini alliance time. Whole bunch of you ponies still are frustrating me with making the exact moves that are screwing with my reads, but I have enough of you down as town to start this off.

Town alliance stands at bvoight, Palmar and Shinki. Thats it. Nopony else. We need to figure out exactly what to do here sometime soon since we are split between a few things.

Second!

@Scumhunter and Draken - Sheep me here. You sheep me and we hit scum, you both get a D2 pass. No pony will touch you if im around and have anything to say about it. This offer expires in... lets say 48 hours.

Time for thinking is past.

Now its time for action, go with the gut as this game needs a good bucking to get back on track. If a serious wagon doesn't happen soon its going to get all kinds of bad.

TSGR for really basing the inital Draken vote off disagreement with reads and now apparent voting his third highest read? Thats where I want this wagon being.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow: What exactly do we need to figure out?

Who to lynch.

I just have some bad vibes about the Draken lynch. Especially with TSGR making attempts to push me there right now as opposed to him doing something like answering why he has just called Draken his third highest suspect based off reads that don't seem to exist much anymore but still is trying to get that lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok everypony check it.

Look at what TSGR is pulling right here. I have presented some stuff against him, which he actually seemed to defend by agreeing with for the most part. The new stuff though he is ignoring while continuing to try and get more ponies on the Draken wagon instead. Fair enough if he actually thinks Draken is scum, but look at his recent big posts. He should

NOT

be voting for Draken, yet its looking like his only way out of this today so he is trying to stick to that case hard while ignoring the flaws in his vote position that I keep pointing out. Draken is looking like his only option, so he is not going to let that one go.

Wagon up TSGR now

@SB - Two years but only a couple games played is the key there. He still reads raw newbie, age isnt indicative of much, just look at me.

[Rainbowdash]

Fastest in Equestria

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah please go over all of that again.

Why did you vote scumhunter? What just happened to "Draken vs TSGR is useless"

Also

@all

- That is L-1. No pony hammer. I want to see if I can get this wagon down without a claim first too.

[Rainbowdash]

To be fair with you, I actually forgot I had my vote on Draken, I had no intentions of voting anyone at this point.

So did you just not read my last few posts or what then?

[Rainbowdash]

2birds, I can start to troll if you want <3. I generally take the game seriously (even when trolling I try to win).

Good vig targets:

Palmar [ ]
Johman [x]

Explain this one.

I dont see Johman as a good vig at all if TSGR is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Happy birthday, RD!

Hit the airwaves on year ago. How far we have come since then.

@Scumhunter - Just becaue you are sheeping me on TSGR doesn't mean you get the pass on explaining why you want a Johman vig here. I really can't see TSGR-Johman as scum together, so explain.

[Rainbowdash]

@SB - Thats actually a little of whats making me nervous in this game. Im usually good at getting sheep, and I also usually end up hardcore protecting somepony as well. This one though, I have far more sheep then normal and my town reads dont agree with me.

My biggest thing to Draken town still is that he really doesn't seem too concerned with survival suddenly. While he isnt doing anything productive, which if doesnt change I would be happy enough pushing home an utility lynch of, this pony keeps passing on the moves that are most likely to keep him alive in the long run.

TSGR just bugs me but im starting to wonder if he actually is town just fighting me on what I see as valid contributions or anything like that.

@Scumhunter - Case on your top pick. You arent allowed to quote me.
@TSGR - Case on somepony. Vote in your next post.

[Rainbowdash]

@Edger - I want vollkan to post still. Specifically him. I know that they are a decent player so want to hear from them.

unvote
Vote 2B1S

Wooo!

Wagon shifts

[Rainbowdash]

@Beck - I have led quite a few really strong town alliances with a lot of success. Recently had a game where I put together a six player D1 alliance that had only one scum in it. Also I always defend players who I think are town and need defending, im not going to let anypony touch a town read. Which of my votes are 'baseless' too? Made a case on Protector, Weird, TSGR... only one I have got anything big up on is 2B1S, but im not going to have time to make that until either late Friday or sometime Saturday. Probably Saturday.

[Rainbowdash]

Im the only one allowed to use a schtick.

Going to have to think about this one though, given that I have seen both of my top few picks working with Draken I may have to cave here.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow, can you link to finished games where you did an alliance?

Also link a game where you are scum please.

Most recent mini

Havent been scum, so cant do that one. Only four completed games, 2 minis and 2 larges (never doing those again outside of perfect theme or something)

Unless I missed it, you only really make a case on TSG, the one on protector wasn't really much of a case, and unless I missed it I don't see one on weird.

You missed the wierd one then.

Plus it's odd that you will defend your town read "Draken" but not include him in your town alliance and now based off somebody elses case, you are willing to cave?

Im mostly conflicted because all my town reads seem to disagree with me, which is really unusual. I could see him as more of an utility lynch but there are still just a few posts from him that I do

not

see as coming from scum too much.

Another note, you also sort of defend Johman, or atleast have him as a null/town read but you vote him for some weird reason, even said you were going to post more on him but decided not to. If you think you found something, you shouldn't hold back.

I think I dont like him so I want him to be scum. Logic says probably not though.

[Rainbowdash]

Can I get a show of hooves for who is voting Draken because of the "softclaim" that happened?

Think im sticking where I am. Gut just keeps telling me Draken is town here.

[Rainbowdash]

IMO, we've already given the scum the information that they'll find truly useful. If he's town, they know he's a power role, and can use that to decide thier NKs.

Right, so what is the scum motivation here (assuming I'm town)
They have a great target for a NK who is looking like he'll be lynched instead.
Sounds to me like it would be a great idea for them to prevent his lynch and lynch another townie so they can NK him.

*sigh*

See its this kind of post that just makes me think this pony cant be scum because there is no way he would be this... is resigny a word? This post is attacking the ponies that are actually trying to stop him from being lynched for trying to stop him from being lynched. I just cant cant cant see scum doing something that essentially is trying to pull the wagon onto themselves.

What is with all this vig talk too? Its all WIFOM and its a bad role that I think argueably should not even be used if drawn after multiple games experience save to kill confirmed town or prove existance, every time I have seen a vig it has done more damage to the town then not. This even ignores the odd/even player number theory. We are just going to lynch this game.

2B1S is the wagon here I think.

[Rainbowdash]

define spent?

As in you are admitting you've been cornered as scum?

Cause you are not denying anything in that post...

please make my day

Yeah it sounds pretty giving up scum like. Especially the "you are correct" part.

Oh if Draken is scum, then thats a scenario where somepony blasting 2B1S may not be the worst thing ever. I would say a town flip would mean a vig hold thier shot.

This game may just need a claim at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Im going to call up a tell I pulled off recently and say Draken is town based on what just happened. I have zero idea what that pony thinks most of the time but if he can put his vote to good use by sheeping town I really don't see a point in lynching him. He hurts my head but I really just do not think he is scum. At this rate I can solidify that read on him if ever forced to, not about to say how until it happens one way or the other though.

Sticking with my current vote on 2B1S. Either that pony or TSGR needs to be dying today.

[Rainbowdash]

If Draken claims nopony hammers without me getting a chance to say something. It has been building for like the last five pages and I am near certain I can catch or clear at least one player with it, once the claim comes it gives all the remaining info I need to pull it off.

[Rainbowdash]

Money on Draken town.

He has been leading up to the vanilla claim from the top of the page directly and heavily implying it since you ponies started hard rolefishing him. Look at what his options would have been as scum, almost everypony had him as a PR, infact you all went as far as to call him a PR, especially a few of you seeming to act like it already had been claimed (am I the only one who saw one of his early responses as VT leadin with 525 solidfying it?). So with all the momentum with Draken-PR in his favor, he claims VT? No. Why he claimed VT is because he IS a VT.

If I have anything to say about this and BELIEVE me I will, we are not going to lynch Draken today. I am ungodly loyal to my town reads, and I have quite the strong town read on Draken here since the VT claim happened.

We should lynch 2B1S.

[Rainbowdash]

No, I strongly disagree with this. Assuming it's a multiple-shot vig, they will increase the number of chances to kill scum from 4 to 5.)

Most games I see with a vig, them shooting hurts the town more then helps it. Your rundown also ignores the fact that shooting is aiken to lynching without claims, which is very bad in the long run. I really think that vigs should not shoot outside of exceedingly rare situations, or they need to shoot to clear themselves. First instinct, if I knew there was a vig in a game, I would prefer them to never shoot then to just start taking shots, again save to prove their role. Thats all theory though, applying it is entirely different.

[Rainbowdash]

Whatever. Gut reads are dumb. I still intend to read into 2b1s tomorrow and see if there's any merit in the case on him however.

For somepony who believes in "Act now think later", gut reads are great.

Also please explain this

I'm not entirely OFF the Draken wagon, I'd like to point out. If there's no clearly better options by the time we're pushing the deadline, my vote will be back up on him.

What does "better options" mean?

@scumhunter - TSGR is not a bad lynch still, but I think 2B1S is a little better now.

[Rainbowdash]

Not sure I quite understand this part of your post btw

For somepony who believes in "Act now think later", gut reads are great.

Im a very reactionary and gut pony. My reads are gut then I go back and try and find substantial evidence to convince others my gut is right. Hence "act now think later" style of play.

Will get a case up sometime today, starting Tuesday I should be back full force.

@Edgar - Can you give some conclusions from that big post? I dont see much of anything concrete.

[Rainbowdash]

No, I strongly disagree with this. Assuming it's a multiple-shot vig, they will increase the number of chances to kill scum from 4 to 5.)

Most games I see with a vig, them shooting hurts the town more then helps it.

That may be true, but how big of a sample size are we talking about here? I doubt vig accuracy is significantly different from lynch accuracy.

Far more inaccurate, you have nothing to go on but a flip, discussion is where reads (should) come from. I almost think "proper" town play as a vig is to never shoot, also I have a far greater sample size then most ponies would expect me to that im drawing from. I see "good" vigging in something like 20% of games with a vig in it, I can point you to so many more that vig cost/nearly cost town the game. Im almost thinking that I will just hold all shots as a vig from here to forever outside of confirmed scum.

@Palmar - Cool. We get it. Seriously if you are town here which I think you are at list give this game more then just lip service.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow: That still doesn't make sense to me. A N1 vig has the same amount of discussion to base reads off of as a D1 lynch, plus the flip. But this is the last I'll discuss it until post game.

Think of it this way, why is a day vig +more town EV compared to normal vig? Day is better, as discussion is better.

I'll try to post my case on 2birds soonish.

Race you!

321go

[Rainbowdash]

Ok, so 2B1S is great at saying a whole lot early on without actually taking a stance.

Gives TSGR a FoS but a pass based on being new
Calls me town unless there is meta against it
Null on Protector
Unsure but scummy on Johman...

its just a lot of "I got nothing" instead of actually some reads.

His vote on Palmar is wrong too

PALMAR! Scum. You remember how I left judgement on TSGRaaize and Weirdbeard dangling? Well, after Palmar posted what I would consider a fairly weak case, they both sheeped it immediately.

He calls Palmar scum in part for having his bad (which it was) case sheeped. What I dont get is why Palmar is scum here isntead of wierd who he seems to have a somewhat solid scum read on.

Later he moves to Edgar, but leaves doors wide open for a hop back over to Palmar.

He really continues to do very little for most of the game though apart from just sheep me. I dont mind sheep at all, get used to it, but he makes very little attempt to go elsewhere, and when he does other things, we get stuff like this

My personal opinion is that policy lynches should only be carried out if there's no better option, and then only if a lynch works in the town's favour from a statistical point of view. The second condition, in this case, is met. Allow me to consider this it overnight.

Apart from the "AND" qualifier meaning both conditions must be met, this push for policy makes no sense. Its not a strong push for one, but bringing it up feels wrong. Also aside, policy lynch is a first few pages of the game thing. Anything later damages town.

Yes, my fence-sitting on policy lynches was intentional, I thought I would build up a wagon, and I thought that scum would feel obliged to take advantage of such an easy wagon. Unfortunately, only two people called me out on it.

This stuff bugs me. Its a get out of doing something scummy card because it was a 'trap' or something like that. A good trap is one that doesn't involve doing something that should make players vote you.

Where 2B1S started really bugging me came with the Draken vote, because they were trying to lurk to wagon away. Literally under 24 hours before, 2B1S was saying that Edgar/TSGR were the top two scum picks. This came out of left field at a really bizzare time. Then voting Scumhunter for meta? Then going back to Draken (accidently)?

I still dont get how the Draken vs TSGR is going nowhere either at this point, which he never really addressed, he just moved on to Edgar, without any attempt to dissuade anyponyelse from following what I guess he is claiming just would create noise.

Calls Palmar and Johman scum distancing, then we have the real fishing that happened to me

That suggests to me he's playing a role he's never played before IMO. Not necessarily scum, he may be freaked out with the power (and thefore, responsibility) that comes with an awesome town PR.

This is what rolefishing is, when ponies start speculating about roles is when the most information is likely to come out.

Now he jumps to Palmar for ??????, then back to Draken on the SB case sheep.

Starting to feel like im slipping into just summarizing stuff right now so im going to call it.

Big points though

1) Lots of fencesitting
2) Policy lynch stance
3) Backing out of the "TSGR vs Draken" arguement
4) Rolefish of Draken

Also you must have cheated somehow. Also you had that headstart.

Yes.

[Rainbowdash]

in a small defence of 2b1s any meta (which there isnt a lot of) shows that he has been more pro-active in this game then in his prior mini game where he was a vanilla townie (saying that though he only got 11 posts in that before being NK'd) Sadly I dont have anymore to go on and meta is only half the case.

Meta is hard. There are a whole lot of metas

You have game type (mini/large/open)
Role type (protective/investigative/killing/other)
Alignment (town/scum)

Then all the subsets... either way its at least 24 types of meta each pony has. They can actually be, and usually are, quite distinctive.

Oh and I will say this too: If 2B1S is scum, I think wierd is scum with him.

[Rainbowdash]

I would still be happy with a TSGR lynch.

@Wierd - I see 2B1S-you a very legitimate pairing because you are basically the only pony who had a decent wagon on him who 2B1S completely ignored. He seemed at least somewhat willing to lynch anypony else who gained suspicion.

[Rainbowdash]

I would be ok lynching any of 2B1S/Wierd/TSGR

Wierd playing around the up to Draken claim is really setting off all type of gut bells. He has been aligning himself to be able to lynch that pony regardless of a claim for a long time.

How about that one for a curveball?

[Rainbowdash]

I'm fine with TSGR/Weird today, 50/50.

Awesome. That will make things interesting.

Which one more, just out of curiosity.

[Rainbowdash]

RBD, why are you hardcore defending someone who you have down as a

gut

town read?

Because I

dont

let town reads get lynched. If they are gut or other, I am not somepony to just let them go down without a fight, even if I have to put up more of one then they do. Far from out of the norm, im actually surprised more dont defend town reads hard actually.

[Rainbowdash]

So despite all That has occurred from the Draken case your gut doesn't even have the slightest bit of doubt?

It does, I would vote him to prevent a no lynch which is more then I can say for some town reads in the past, but I just am teetering between stubborn and town read here.

Also the notion of Draken being the most informative lynch while not my main reason to vote him is still a damn good reason. How he flips will reflect on so many players. While the 2bird result will what? It's not that anyone has defended or even interacted with him beyond musing he is scummy...

Im not a fan of 'information lynches' too much since any lynch is really informative, just in different ways. Usually a flip is more informative if its a scum flip too, which I dont really think that Draken is here. If Draken is scum, yeah its a more informative lynch, if he is town, its probably not a more informative lynch since it just degrades into WIFOM a whole lot faster.

I mean, I will vote him to get a deadline lynch, but I would literally rather lynch five ponies right off the top of my head.

@Beck - You should know better then anypony here how much defending town reads can help.

[Rainbowdash]

Why should i know that? I hardly ever get town reads and the 1 time I did, he was scum. Weird can attest to that.

Last game we were in 1219, the one where I managed to keep Thomith from being lynched day one because of pretty similar reasons as to why im trying to keep Draken from being lynched right now. You have seen me shut down wagons on town reads in the past.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote Weird

1219 logic is at it again.

I originally unvoted wierd in large part because I didn't like what Draken did by putting him at L-1, but since then have formed a town read on Draken. That begs the question why am I no longer voting for wierd, for which I do not really have a good answer. Last time this happened, scum got up to L-1, town thought they were hammering but actually werent, they almost got lynched, more stuff happened, until eventually I realized that I had no reason to actually doubt my inital scum read on the first pony that hit L-1.

This game is EERY similar to that one, except my town read on

Thomith

Draken is a little weaker.

Will see if I can get a Draken-town case up in the next 20 minutes. If I dont then, hopefully tonight since this is looking like a light-ish workload week for me.

[Rainbowdash]

So for Draken being town, I like him part because I actually like his reaction to me pulling off wierd when he put him at L-1.

First he slowly starts listing the things that he is voting for

I'm voting Weird because I believe there is a decent chance he is scum attempting to buddy to a town player in an attempt to get them both lynched. Eventually.
I have also read and agree with your own case and Sir Bastion's thoughts.

I suppose I too am calling him out for sheeping, but I just think there's also the possibility he's sheeping with purpose.

Until eventually

From what I can tell, I'm trying to lynch him for much the same reason you are... Unless you're saying you don't want to lynch him?

This strikes me as town a bit. He is trying to actually figure out where I am in all of this suddenly instead of continue to try and explain where he is in all of it. Its a little more defensive, but its a very legitimate question to be asking right here from Draken-town standpoint. He is trying to figure out why others are not agreeing with him.

There is more attempts though to try and zero down his reads though as the game goes on

Looking at this, most of my actual reads seems to stem from the Palmar/Weird/TSG vote on Johman, and 2birds reaction.
The issue I have with that is the explanation given by Palmar for his vote on Johman, didn't seem good enough.
It didn't even slightly convince me, yet it DID convince 2 other players. What this means I don't know, and I probably wont for some time, but I will take it as a note to think about as the game progresses.

He is trying to figure out what he needs to figure out by finding a focal point and building from there.

Now comes to some I missed (yes its possible, im only ALMOST perfect)

But really only if this were a plain game with mafia goons and vanilla townies (which it may be...), random lynching, and assuming we're all mindless automatons.

Cut. Wrap. Print.

I would consider govenoring him on this post alone.

This is a vanilla claim all the way, when its not needed, which is something that scum will almost NEVER EVER EVER do. Its so counterintuitive to their win condition to force themselves into vanilla claims unprovoked, playing good scum is all about creating as much freedom as possible for yourself. VTs on the other hand often let little things like this slip from time to time (hint hint again Beck, see more parallels to Thomith?).

Im going to class.

More on this later.

Then some on wierd with any luck.

[Rainbowdash]

I would be willing to move my vote to any of TSGR, 2B1S or leave it on Wierd here. Still really against Draken-scum.

Love how wierds new justification is that I was leading him, which I absolutely was since I wanted to get him to actually answer my questions. That pony doesnt open up too much, so I needed to pry it out of him.

@Palmar - We arent lynching Johman today. Move your vote elsewhere or you are going to continue to just hurt town here.
@Draken/TSGR/Shinki/Beck - Vote. Now. Continued stalling will do nothing but make trying to solve the 'what to do' problem at deadline that much more difficult, by refusing to take a stance now you are essentially surrendering any possibility to take one later, which im not going to let anypony do at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Draken is, er, weird. I disagree with whoever (was it RBD?) who said that scum-Draken would claim a PR. I feel that claiming VT is exactly what scum-Draken would do.

Why?

He had been breadcrumbing VT (unintentionally probably) for a long time.

Weirds play around Draken makes me think he is scum trying to get a mislynch regardless of what was claimed. I mean, the simple fact that wierd stayed on him essentially means that he was going to refuse to get off that pony under any circumstance.

This whole wagon on Draken is just complete horseapples. He is going to flip exactly what he claimed, since everything has been leading up to it. I mean, I just dont know what else I can tell you ponies to convince you otherwise. Getting wagons off of VT claims, one of the things im best at in this game and im super accurate in doing it when they hit the necessary tells. I barely have any completed games and can point to more then once I have used this to save VT from being lynched.

Wierd is really freaking bugging me here. All this play around Draken feels bad, look at this chain of quotes

I can only say that I have a STRONG gut feeling that Draken is going to flip town.

Ugh :\. I keep going back and forth on the Draken thing. I pretty much unvoted because I saw him roleclaim vanilla townie and think, "If he was scum, he would have claimed a PR." But then, I'd already said I wouldn't believe a PR claim from Draken.

Personally, I think I can learn the most from a Draken lynch, so that's what I'm going to stay with right now

He is going all over the place on Draken. Draken is town, then Draken is scum, then he is an information lynch. His biggest things keeping him on the wagon I can tell though?

1) I was leading him, which is a stupid tell since to be scummy, I would need to be scum.
2) Draken claimed VT, which he obviously did because its the only way ONE player would have believed him to be town. Note that I said nothing about the VT stuff until after the claim, and more then one pony was talking about Draken having heavily breadcrumbed.
3) Draken gets information

Thats not a case, thats all copouts. This whole Draken wagon is just not awesome beyond reason. It needs to go away. I

literally

would lynch all but one or two ponies before Draken if I had a choice at this juncture.

He. Is. Town.

Seriously. I really have no idea how I can make this clearer to any of you.

One of wierd, 2B1S or TSGR need to be doing the dying here.

@Beck - Gotta do this early since it needs to be full lynch to count, otherwise we are throwing off numbers.

[Rainbowdash]

Look.

Information lynch is one of those things thats just fluff to make a wagon look better, I am not one to let my town reads go down without a massive fight. Never have been, I am loyal to them way beyond fault. Thing is, when I am willing to defend somepony this much, I very very very rarely am wrong, significantly better then EV. Same with the application of the VT claim tell, im good with making it work. Could I be wrong? Yes. Am I? Doubt it enough to already basically be staking a wagon showing up on me tomorrow before we move on on it.

I could honestly care less if you think a 2B1S or TSGR wagon is not as 'informative' they have been around for such a long period of time that there are connections to them from others. The "single best lynch" to me is who I think is scum.

Im standing my ground here and will fight you hoof and nail to stop this lynch from going through.

Unvote
Vote TSGR

Its on.

[Rainbowdash]

tell me firstly, since the man wont speak for himself. Give me a reasonable town reason for Draken to lurk back into the shadows after his wagon fell apart? And for once again not be voting any such way. You know its 2 wagons with 3 a piece. You could really use him.

Simply because I think he is town doesn't mean I think his play is good or why he is doing what he is doing. What matters to me is that he is town, and anypony who is town counts as one town.

Lack of vote actually makes me think town too. He is making no attempts to protect himself here.

[Rainbowdash]

hmm, that TSG wagon came out of no where

It was a two vote swing. Not really out of nowhere.

what is the case against TSG anyway?

Pretty much the same it was when I was pushing it hard a while ago. Since then 95% of his posts have been "catching up". His defense of his wagon of "hey this isnt informative" shows that he actually is somewhat caught up here given that has been recent discussion, and is a very odd way to try and deflect a couple votes away.

I would still actually most prefer to lynch wierd today, apparently that one isnt happening though.

[Rainbowdash]

@TSGR - You were part of the "Draken is going to claim PR" group, you heavily imply that he has all but claimed what PR he is. Can you explain your response to the VT claim a bit more?

Keep forgetting that bvoight was in that game I keep refering to Beck about. Need to actually write that down.

[Rainbowdash]

Not voting TSG. I don't see how he's been any less lurky than Johman, Scumhunter or Shinki.

Cute. You think thats the entire case.

@TSGR - Claim

[Rainbowdash]

Last I checked the case he avoided your questions about 12 pages a go and was able to lurk away and has been ever since.

Just because he never really answered my questions doesnt mean they no longer apply towards him. Not going to deny that him having gone into lurk mode for about the last two weeks has nothing to do with this vote, but its not everything.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah I sorta disagree with what SB has said on some things. First off, TSGR needs to claim in his next post or be lynched. I am completely serious about this. He is the leading wagon with under 48 hours to deadline, grounds for when a claim needs to happen are entirely different, especially for me given that I know that chances of me even being around before deadline are low, I mean, no way am I getting up with the sun on a Saturday. Given most ponies are within a few hours of my time I think activity on the whole may be lower then, meaning a wagon shift will be harder to complete.

Also im not entirely comfortable stopping with my defense of Draken. My goal in games, especially ones like this where I feel town reads are clicking far better than scum reads, is to simply

NOT

get a couple ponies lynched instead of getting somepony in specific lynched. I am wholly welling to admit that part of why I am voting TSGR is that he is not Draken, and that his lurking and general fence sitting on most ponies is very much so pissing him off. If we no lynched though today I would not vig him but somepony else, thats just the way the cupcake crumbles though.

Time is of the essence, and while letting these three ponies talk (albiet im betting they just continue to ignore us) is a good thing, its also the time to be convincing others that they are on the wrong wagon for whatever reason. Im just not a fan of doing anything to risk a game stall near deadline that mandates full majority for lynch.

@TSGR

- Claim in your next post or be lynched.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm Blue, I would rolefish now, I guess, maybe.

Why do you keep claiming "Blue"?

Not feeling an unvote, but I would like another little bit to gather my thoughts.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok see... thats why all you ponies need to make some universal language or something.

"Blue" here I take to be a power role since some mods like making them flip blue for who knows why instead of town-green.

unvote

This probably comes back around this time tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

The problem with him claiming VT is you and bvoigt said scum won't usually claim VT, thus now allowing scum to claim VT.

Bad topic, descends into WIFOM and softclaim. TSGR never really alluded to being either alignment, if anything very slight to VT at one point but essentially neglegable in the long run, maybe slightly above EV chances. The tell only holds for the first claim though, and so far Dash is batting perfectly here using it. Draken hit just about every nuance of it, way more then enough to make me happy using it here. TSGR is probably about EV flipping scum here.

For those who dont know EV means "Expected Value" which is what statistically should happen.

[Rainbowdash]

You don't want to start a new wagon? And you want to lynch someone below the line?
TSG has never looked particularly scummy to me, so I'd recommend me or 2bird.
Me cause not sure how useful I'm going to be, but hopefully I'll be useful d2 and onwards. 2bird, cause I have thought 2bird scummish on and off during this day.

Because I'm not 'completely' suicidal:
VOTE: 2bird1stone

I think my case has already been discussed, if you had some specific points you wanted clarification on ask for them, otherwise I have nothing to add.

Apart from affirming that you are town even more with this post, we still need you over on TSGR in order to actually get a lynch today.

Seriously though everypony, if scum kill me tonight, you are NOT going to lynch Draken later on. SO MANY times I have gotted NKed only to see my correct town read get ran up and then lynched later in the game because im not around to defend them anymore.

TSGR is the lynch. I will put my vote on and start demanding the hammer after I get out of a class tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

Also, I think we kind of

need

to lynch Draken now because of RBD's massive defence of him. As Sir Bastion said, she's gone as far as to use the chainsaw defence (attacking the attacker of the person you are trying to protect), which some people would call a scum-read in itself. I'm not sure if I agree with that school of thought or not, but for the sake of having any level of faith in RBD for the rest of the game, I need to see how Draken flips or I'll constantly have her on my scum-dar.

Yeah youre a riot.

You know why we arent going to lynch Draken? Its twofold. First its almost for sure a mislynch, im not at all super convinced that TSGR is scum here, but I actually think he is more of a liability then Draken is. Second, your reason is just a massive cop out. I know how I play and I know the standard responses to my play, its going to be called WIFOM either way here with a town flip.

Vote TSGR

Somepony end this day, although to make it clear the vig only should shoot if something goes bad and we no lynch today. I keep skimming stuff and running numbers, vig actually is an anti-town role outside of scenarios where they are keeping it odd number ammounts.

[Rainbowdash]

Its because you are the only ones who still think Draken is scum, so are uncomfortable with me defending him. Like I said, I have played like this long enough to understand the reactions from all of this, the "we need to lynch Draken because he is being defended" is far more likely to come from scum then town.

Without some gunsmith guilty on Draken I really see no way im ever voting that pony. Unless this is a hidden mountainous (lol no) I dont see him being scum, all the little things regarding setup he said point to him being VT or in an all goon team.

Tomorrow if im not around you need to all look into wierd and maybe Beck depending on the flip from TSGR. I would be still trying to get wierd lynched here if we werent up against the wall for deadline.

[Rainbowdash]

Why do you think you will be NK'd?
Plus, Bastion already said he was going to be NK'd.

Actually its going to be me because of this post, which I have written out and deleted probably a dozen times over the last 72 hours because I cant ever quite make myself hit post after.

Im claiming non-VT, with a role that I should be able to confirm myself having with relative easy. At the same time though im pretty happy absorbing a NK if at the same time making everypony more willing to simply listen to be about Draken being town. Given that its a role that I should be able to alert somepony to actually existing quickly if needed, its obviously not doctor, if there is a doctor, you are NOT on me tonight. I am fully willing to take this kill, im more then enough sure that its the best move in the long run at this point. You should be able to figure out who to protect depending on this flip.

Somepony take a good look at wierd tomorrow if I do get killed. 2B1S may be a decent option to persue if TSGR is town.

Hammer time is now. Good luck tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

Dont think it was, I spent probably a good two/three hours on this and its the best call, you are going to have to trust me on that one, will disclose more why post game, but for now, its the best move.

The one reason I can talk about now is what I said, it actually will probably help remove pressure from Draken and take attention away from the fact that I am defending that pony. Everypony getting caught up on it is just going to detract from what needs to get done, so im willing to paint a target on my flank to keep the game on track and hopefully create a semi-cleared VT tomorrow with my death today.

I realize this is an unconventional move by all standards, but I really think doing this while demanding that any protective role stays off me is the best thing.

[Rainbowdash]

More so the strange value you've attached to draken's life. I'd almost say its trolling if its gotten to the stage that you are claiming on day 1. Either that or you really really want to be the centre of attention. A man cant make enquires on the other players here without you butting in and bringing things back to you...

I really think this is the best in the long run, if I can shut down attacks on the Draken while keeping general concensus town reads alive I am totally jumping on that possibility. Not trying to be the center of atteniton, but im not about to do anything or let anything happen that pulls the game in a direction im not happy with.

How are we both wrong though about this since we both have Draken as something different?

[Rainbowdash]

If it wasnt for the fact that I already see the paranoia of "why is she defending Draken" forming as much as I can see it already starting, I probably wouldn't have made that move. I know how my play tends to get met and what type of problems it can cause if players are not willing to fully listen to my town reads. You are going to need to trust me that I see this as the right move on more then one level, and I said, I will explain it more indepth when the game is over. I spent a long time weighing this one over, and think that this is the best possible thing I can do at this point for the town in the long run.

[Rainbowdash]

Maybe unwittingly, but I know he is contradicting himself.

Just if im not around somepony look into wierd. He still really bugs me.

[Rainbowdash]

*squee*

Plan worked better than expected.

Going to reread three or four ponies sometime today and lay a whole lot of stuff out.

[Rainbowdash]

I'd love to know what your plan was, by the way, RBD. So far as I see it, you've outed yourself as a PR to lynch one useless townie, over someone else who, at best, appears to be another useless townie.

You will know when I flip (maybe), when the game is over or we massclaim.

Until then, lips are sealed.

Im down to a couple ponies to choose from.

2B1S is mixed telling all over the place out the gate, the opening question from bvoigt is horrible, Johman seems far to sure that the kill was from scum for what he knows, wierd is WIFOM.

Eh.

[Rainbowdash]

So im a little torn right here

I think that Draken and SB are town, and thats around where those reads end really.

Im going back and forth between 2B1S and Wierd right now. I actually think both of those ponies could easily be scum, as I have said they work together very cleanly, and I dont really think they would have not killed me given how up I was on the two of them, mixed with the fact that I claimed a PR. Then again I had a recent game where through what I said scum concluded I was an elite bodyguard or something and that caused a wierd kill, so its not out of the question, but I see it as unlikely unless they called me as a PGO.

For wierd being WIFOM, its basically me being alive. I figured one of three things were going to happen last night. Either I would die, scum would take the gamble that there was nothing protective and take a shot at SB, or bvoigt would die. Anything less I was going to be thrilled with because my reads were scattered, I had a whole lot of distrust in Edgar still, and for everypony talking about vigging targets, they would have been on a list where I considered a shot but wouldnt have taken it in the end. Hence the *squee*, somepony I was uncomfortable with is now confirmed town.

On that note, if a vig killed edgar, they should claim. It means a town something saved another town role, and with the vig thats three cleared, following which a massclaim should quickly finish off the game for us. So yeah, whoever made that kill claim it please. Should give us four to five cleared ponies.

Havent quite decided where im going yet. Will probably be one of 2B1S or wierd.

[Rainbowdash]

P-Edit:
So Rainbow, you saying you think it was a vig kill?

I abstain from answering that. I think the more ponies talk about the kill coming from a certain alignment, the more they can accidently give away about how they are looking at the game. Sometimes figuring something out is as simple as asking yourself how somepony is coming to the conclusions they are coming to. Like your comment about everypony possibly being VT, not something that will usually come to the minds of scum or non-VT to actually bluff.

What remains is if it was a vig kill, they need to claim, which means they are clear and we can probably wrap this game up fast.

My thought was, he's a good player, but he's targeting a townie, he may be able to drive a mis-lynch. But would that still be too dangerous to keep alive just in case?

Apart from the fact that I all but told any protective role they were on SB last night under penalty of death, this is all WIFOM. Sometimes scum will avoid a kill beacuse they are afraid of the player being protected, they have a PR read on another, or simply because they think they can keep a pony on tight enough reings to justify them staying.

I still think SB is probably town at this point, and roles should take the same plan of attack as they did yesterday tonight without some major changes.

[Rainbowdash]

Now, I tried posting this yesterday, but my computer died. RBD outed herself as a PR the other day to protect a claimed VT; I'm honestly not sure how this claim was meant to protect the VT, but whatever. We're expected to believe she painted a MASSIVE target on her back to protect(?) a VT. Follow this up with a no-kill on her. Were it not for the previous day's events, I would suggest it's scum pushing for a mislynch; with the bizarre circumstances of the claim, however, I'm inclined to think scum.

Think outside the box. I still say my move was the best move that I could make there since it releaves pressure from a town read who I am convinced would make it difficult. Also my role is 100% proveable when I want it to be, all I have to do is play it the way im sure the mod actually intended it to be played instead of the way that I think it should be played. Its different then what most ponies think the right way it, but its not a rare methodology.

The interesting part here though is, you seem entirely sure that I am actually protecting a VT. How is this a bad thing? I have basically locked myself into a role that is confirmable already and really, if you cant tell which of just a couple things im going to claim, you need lessons on how to read between the lines. Its near suicidal as scum since I just shut almost every possible door, but as scum its a good type of suicidal.

Vote Weird

[Rainbowdash]

No, protecting VT is just the best-case scenario. He's definately not anything more than a VT, and he's probably vanilla scum. My point was that you, if we take your word for it, felt the urge as town PR to risk your life for VT (and it doesn't take a genius to know which is more important). That's crazytalk, and if you do flip/confirm yourself town, then I'm actually slightly impressed by your audacity. Fact remains I think you're scum for the time being.

*bzzzzt*

Theory fail.

First, thats an oddly specific accusation of him. Vanilla scum and not just scum?

Second, its my greatest trait and probably one of my bigger flaws. I will do literally anything to stop a town read from being lynched. In this situation it is perfect for me to claim a PR because it accomplishes so much. Im not going to go super far into it at risk of tipping my hand more then ive already shown, but its the right move.

Third... VT and PR are worth about the same to me. They both count as exactly one pony for town, if I can remove myself from the game to essentially confirm Draken as town as well, heck thats awesome beyond reason.

Your entire case on me seems to be that you disagree with my theory that claiming a PR is a good thing. Is it not?

[Rainbowdash]

Hmmph

Wait until I put a vote out to make a post I like no?

Johman is definantly a decent lynch simply from a utility standpoint. Bvoigt still bugs me a bit too in light of the town flip from TSGR and some of my auxillary reads.

[Rainbowdash]

2b1s your vote on rainbow is bad, it just dawned on me what she is soft claiming. She is town, end of story.

Yeah I need to work on that subtelty thing, kinda hard when you are this awesome though.

Also kinda odd request - But 2B1S/Johman, if you two are masons I would actually just claim it now. Im

really

bad at picking up PR reads and I really think I see something there and have for a while, you have to be kidding yourselves if you think you are going to skirt through today without claiming too with wagons forming on the two of you. Also it would do wonders to help with figuring some ponies, Palmar and bvoigt in particular, out.

Just something to speed it all up and put more pressure on scum ya know? Fast is good, faster is better.

[Rainbowdash]

I'd rather not claim. Maybe later if it becomes necessary.

~J

If you arent masons with him, just claim not masons. All im interested in is masons or not.

Right now here is how I see the game going:

We chase our tails for a little bit before either having you or 2B1S ran to claim. That will probably take a week or so of our deadline. If you are masons, you should just claim now because its just going to speed up a process that we already mostly committed to. You two have been defending eachother to various extents this entire game already, just claim masons already if you are. Its just going to expediate the inevitable at this rate.

[Rainbowdash]

Sometimes claiming isn't a bad thing. Mass claim is actually one of the most underutilized town weapons on here. Not suggesting mass claim right now, but tomorrow it definitely should be at least a consideration.

Silly filly.

We are massclaiming tomorrow at the

latest

if they are masons im highly tempted to just do it today. Beck and bvoigt have seen me basically cement a game with a D2 masslcaim.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't get why shinki unvoted 2b1s. And did I miss where johog explained why 2b1s is newb town?

Nope, he just dodged.

Vote: Johman

So why Johman over 2B1S then?

For me it's 2b1s but I'm interested in why rainbow voted weird, rainbow, I'm busy at work today, can you briefly explain your reason for weird?

I still just am very uncomfortable with him. I think he is town then I think he is scum. I could easily make a small case for him being either at this point. Part of that vote was based on my 2B1S-Johman mason read though.

I need to reread 2B1S, Johman and bvoigt. Going to get slammed with work this weekend so will do my best but no promises

[Rainbowdash]

So its just a vote to get a response? If you had to pick one for scum it would still be 2B1S? Do you not like ponies preaching gut reads?

[Rainbowdash]

So its just a vote to get a response? If you had to pick one for scum it would still be 2B1S? Do you not like ponies preaching gut reads?

Yep.

Well, I answered you Shinki. I use my gut a lot and so I'm doing here. Seriously, I've not been this confident in a townread since a couple of games ago.

~J

Purely gut? I can understand RBD at Draken case, although I don't like it very much, but in 2b1s case it's... odd getting an "obvtownread", imo.

What?

Ok. So why were you sheeping my gut Draken read? It took me a long time to actually lay out why I was defending him since it took me a bit to figure out something I could actually wordify, but you had no problems there.

Also what is your read on Draken? You don't like my case for him being town but at the same time you are willing to sheep it? I have been calling him pretty much obvtown for a long time.

unvote

Really wish that 2B1S and Johman were mason. Both of those are perfect alignments to pick up at this point. If pressed I would probably vote 2B1S here. Need to think though, ive been having a rough life week and the recent night here hasnt allowed me to stay too attached to this game. By Tuesday I should be back to my normal self though, since thats the day I have a massive program due. I

hate

programming, so not awesome.

[Rainbowdash]

@bvoigt - While it

is

entirely possible to lose town reads overnight, Celestia knows I lost a few in this game alone, its not a scumtell if it can be backed up logically. Not sure this Draken one is.

I actually could get behind this one I think, the hypocracy over gut reads here makes me uneasy

Vote Delta

[Rainbowdash]

whatup.

Johman really went from strongest town read to FoS fast on that 2b1s case.

Interesting!

Let's double lynch them.

Okayyyy then

How does Johman pushing on 2B1S cause you to think that Johman is scum?

You ponies are starting to bug me given the shear quanity of acceptable lynches at this point in the game. I can deal with a level of derp but some of this is off the charts confusing to me. Shinki sheeps my gut but attacks others gut, Johman is hard on 2B1S and wont give us anything why, 2B1S continues to act wierd, Palmar is taking inexplicable stances on Johman now. There is a chain of something here that I need to figure out ASAP if I have any hope of putting something together.

Pony	Did	Pony
Shinki	attacks	2B1S
Shinki	pressures	Johman
2B1S	vote on coinflip	Palmar
2B1S	passes on flip	Draken
Johman	attacks	palmar
Johman	defends	2B1S
palmar	policy pushes	2B1S
palmar	policy pushes	Johman

Horseapples. That took way to long and I dont understand what it means right now. These four ponies are really interacting with eachother though, but I do think there isnt going to be more than two scum in there, probably just one.

@Johman - How much do you trust that 2B1S read. I dont really care much about where it comes from unless you have some specific post thats great, but I want to know how sure you are here.

[Rainbowdash]

Pony, I have no clue what those things mean. What do you think they mean? If you don't know what they mean why are you bringing them up? Are they worth discussing?

I think its worth having out there right now. I really am not sure what it all means due to complete lack of information. Im thinking somepony with more information than I have though could really be helped by it though. I do think there cant be more than two scum between those four

and

Draken though.

Right now im all confuzzled on Palmar. He has done next to nothing this game, he eclipses my laziness easily, quite possibly my stubbornness as well. Here is my issue though with him: The policy lynch. Johman hasnt always been a treat to play with, but im not quite sure 'policy lynch' is correct response. At the same time, he raised a really good point on 2B1S early. Im having a hard time reading him, but his posts today have been odd. I dont get what his true stance on Draken/2B1S/Johman actually are... and to make sure the implied question doesnt get ignored:

@Palmar - Can you give me a paragraph on what you think of Draken, 2B1S and Johman?

[Rainbowdash]

I see no town motivation for Palmar's actions. I do see scum motivation for Palmar's actions. Even if he's town, he's worthless in his current state. I see no reason not to lynch.

*twitch*

Okay,

Protector

Shinki

DeltaWave

is, as far as I'm concerned, town, despite some interesting play on Shinki's part. This read is not set in stone, I will be very interested to see DeltaWave's posts.

*twitch*

*twitch*

Did we ever decide whether Edgerobin was scum, SK, or vigkill? If it was anything other than scumkill, that suggests doctor or roleblocker has some information that we could do with right about now.

*twitch* *twitch* *twitch*

Also yes. I decided already but have chosen not to broadcast it to the world.

@RBD

Draken is probably town
2b1s is probably scum
Johman is scum

Par-a-graphs

These are not paragraphs. These are not even something you can

try

to pass off as one.

[Rainbowdash]

You ponies need to stop screwing with my reads this much. I really dont want to but I almost think I need to reread. Also still find myself agreeing quite a bit with SB, almost thinking I need to do a little sheeping here just to get everything all ironed out.

@Johman - Ok, time to buck this style of play. I operate almost purely on gut too, so do get where you are coming from but you do

NOT

get to do nothing but say something and move on without giving us anything. Go back and find what triggered the gut because something did. Gut isnt magic, its a read that you are unsure of where it originated. If you have to "make stuff up" then do that, if you want to pretend you are a cop with a result on them but dont want to claim so are going to go through the entire game trying to find anything to justify a vote on them, do it.

[Rainbowdash]

@Johman - Honestly, I dont care if you are saying this is you being nice. Everypony knows that Kindness is a key virture (nowhere near Loyalty but still) and its something that needs to be done in games. The thing is, when you play like that, it hurts

my

play, thats where I have a problem and why I am really fast to shut you down if you are going to play like this.

Im going to sheep SB right now. Give me another day or so and life will have freed me up completely.

[Rainbowdash]

Apparently I forgot the voting part of sheeping.

unvote
Vote Scumhunter

To snipe a few points before SB gets there -

Quite a few times looking back, Scumhunter kept bumping me back to the TSGR wagon, without actually doing much pushing of it himself, just getting me to do the work.

Also im waiting for that "D2 upkick in content" still.

[Rainbowdash]

Apparently I forgot the voting part of sheeping.

unvote
Vote Scumhunter

To snipe a few points before SB gets there -

Quite a few times looking back, Scumhunter kept bumping me back to the TSGR wagon, without actually doing much pushing of it himself, just getting me to do the work.

Also im waiting for that "D2 upkick in content" still.

Is this a "I think this pony is scum vote" or a "wtf why is this pony contributing more vote"?

Both if you change is to isnt

[Rainbowdash]

This game officially has begun grating on me, since there are way too many players who apart from not really being all that townie also are really frustrating me by just posting dreck by in large. You ponies know exactly who you are, if you are town, step it up or ship out. I nearly am to the point where I just want to lynch one of 2B1S/Johman/Palmar/Draken just to be able to get reads on the rest of them since they are apparently never going to give me anything that actually will allow me to get a good handle on them apart from flipping.

@Beck - SB is town for sure unless both of 2B1S and Draken are town. In that situation I can see him scum but still it remains unlikely.

I will completely back a Palmar lynch at this point. Im done with that.

[Rainbowdash]

Confirmation bias is not quite tunnel vision but close. It essentially is you believe that something is true, so use any information as something to back it up, even if its not something that really supports your case.

Also can we REALLY all stop claiming not X role at this point?

whatup.

Johman really went from strongest town read to FoS fast on that 2b1s case.

Interesting!

Let's double lynch them.

Palmar - You never really elaborated on the Johman-scum thing. I want to know more behind it at this point, since I dont get how Johman suddenly attacking 2B1S who you think is scum is something that we should view as scummy at all.

[Rainbowdash]

Im pretty sure Palmar is lying here regardless of his alignment, but the chance for Johman being scum is actually legitimate enough to just follow through with it. If Johman is scum, thats even more delicious wine for the scum to sip on tonight.

I would even say any cop shouldnt counter unless they have a innocent on Johman or a guilty on somepony else.

Once everypony checks in the lynch is set.

[Rainbowdash]

Palmar if you are town and you are fakeclaiming cop, then admit to it or you may very well lose this game for us.
But if you are scum and fakeclaiming cop, then feel free to continue because you will certainly die if Joh flips town.

If Palmar suddenly was mod confirmed VT, what would your read on Johman be?

[Rainbowdash]

Palmar if you are town and you are fakeclaiming cop, then admit to it or you may very well lose this game for us.
But if you are scum and fakeclaiming cop, then feel free to continue because you will certainly die if Joh flips town.

If Palmar suddenly was mod confirmed VT, what would your read on Johman be?

It wouldn't affect my read on Johman. If that was the case I'd have to go back and reassess the situation.

So...

read would be town?

[Rainbowdash]

Mostly gut, until recently I forgot he was playing, those types of players scare me.

I have seen at least twice where mafia has won and I couldn't remember much about their postings. But it could be just his play style cause earlier rainbow said she forgot he was in another game that we were all in.

That was because he was a hydra in that game, about the same memoribility here.

I think thats everypony.

Vote Johman

[Rainbowdash]

@2B1S/Johman - Apart from me getting to cheer by calling you two were connected, can you summarize what you went over N1? Are you able to day talk?

unvote

This game hurts my head quite a bit at this point. Im also thinking I may have been wrong about Draken at this point, if I was bvoigt is almost for sure scum with him.

We should massclaim as now we have four and a half living claimed ponies.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote bvoigt

For whoever asked why I think Draken-Bvoigt makes a lot of sense, its the lead up to the claim from Draken. Bvoigt basically was calling for the PR claim the entire time, felt like scum trying to tell their partner that they needed to claim a role, and they would believe it. Bvoight was one of the ponies though who agreed with the VT claim making sense, which really bugs me since it essentially means that apart from a counter he was going to let Draken go. Draken -> Bvoigt is stronger connection than the other way around

On that along, bvoight is a good lynch for today. The blatant rolefish for the vig too.

Massclaim starts with Bvoigt, popcorn from there. I would prefer to go last since I have essentially claimed already, but will claim earlier if called on.

@Neighbors - Please summarize your talks, topics of interest for me in particular are

1) If Edgar was talked about
2) Which of you called the other town first

Summary of everything else is good too.

[Rainbowdash]

pony, what do you make of Johman's vt claim? also what do you think of delta?

Poor choice. He should have just claimed Neighbor. I think its a town tell though, especially if him and 2B1S had a good relationship in the QT, which is why I want a lot of info there.

Delta is still a good lynch, was voting earlier and still would go back there, although its not prefered at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm not sure we have time to coordinate a mass-claim today, and I definitely don't see how you have "basically claimed" already pony. I think it might be wise to save the mass claim for tomorrow tbh.

I would be shocked if you really cant guess what I am if you read close.

Im pretty flashy, so sneaky breadcrumbs arent really something I can do well.

Why I want a massclaim kinda is that most of the lynch options are unclaimed players. I could wait on it I guess, but with so much claimed ponies, I dont like it.

Fine, no massclaim.

[Rainbowdash]

Neighbors can be scum-scum. Infact im pretty sure somepony did that within the last few months to test the site meta and town ate that WIFOM quite a bit. If a neighbor is scum, its Johman, but they are both probably town in light of what happened.

I dont love that answer, but I actually will get behind this instead

unvote
Vote DW

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

N1 target? Any wierd aspect to the role?

[Rainbowdash]

Ok so after that elaboration its 20% more likely you are scum fakeclaiming.

One, thats not a bodyguard, thats like a half bodyguard half watcher.
Two, the role has randomness, im pretty sure randomness is illegal/hard to get through the normal ruleset.
Three, you didnt ask about predicessor actions. I honestly can't believe that anypony would choose to not ask about that.

Report back with what happened night one. We can stop the massclaim now. No point in moving on since its one of two dying in my book right now, and both are claimed.

[Rainbowdash]

Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.

You lose. That role is illegal.

Vote DeltaWave

Game on. Real protective role if we got one, me or SB, your call.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh and SB busts it further!



Delta got greedy and got burned. Give it up discord.

Also yes, the randomness is explicitly non-normal. How the role resolves is random, as you have no control over it. Its what makes it different than something like a JOAT.

[Rainbowdash]

Me and SB are hive minding something awesome right now. If you really are town you get to be honorary Applejack this game.

I was seriously about to make a post mocking DW not understanding what a period was. This is too awesome. Im sitting here giggling like a filly over all of this. This calls for a party.

[Rainbowdash]

Dont feed the parasprite. Just wait for enough ponies to check in for the hammer to be cast.

[Rainbowdash]

btw I refuse to be apple jack, she's my least favourite pony.

Can I be Twilight Sparkle instead?

Fine. Whatever. Not sure what you got against AJ though, she is a solid top three, plus I have exploitable images. Twilight is better than most give her credit for though, she just is overused in the episodes.

[Rainbowdash]

I can find exploitables either way, I just have more if you are AJ. No problem with you being Twilight. Like I said, she is better than most give her credit for, probably my number four.

Back on topic though, im betting mod is just going to abstain from giving anything new since that breeches just about every standard practice. Lynch is pretty much set, even in the offchance that the role is allowed which I for the life of me cant see it getting past the review team, there still are problems. I dislike the fact that he is a "Bodyguard" when he is a watcher+bodyguard. I dislike that he actually never checked his past players actions, which is the first thing anypony should do.

DW is scum who got too greedy and cost himself the lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

You guys realize that his role can be approved right? If the review committee will approve a pgo, bomb, military vet, and even a role blocker that blocks an entire mafia faction kill, this role is probably legit.

See, the random aspect of this role is what makes it illegal, not to mention if it was real, then its swingy beyond reason. This is due to the fact that if the "bodyguard" hits the right player, there is a 50-50 chance of them dying or catching scum. How can this even start to balance?

[Rainbowdash]

Also Beck gets some town points if Delta is scum for that last post. Bvoigt might still be scum here.

[Rainbowdash]

Shinki never backed the draken wagon, she did a lot of active lurking, commenting on good points and so on but she never voted or pushed on anything so if they flip scum I'll be back pushing that


will i have to fight you again over it draken?

Not as much, ive been lessening on that read a bit mostly due to a shift in how ive been viewing the rest of the lurkey-ish ponies.

[Rainbowdash]

See, the random aspect of this role is what makes it illegal, not to mention if it was real, then its swingy beyond reason. This is due to the fact that if the "bodyguard" hits the right player, there is a 50-50 chance of them dying or catching scum. How can this even start to balance?

If you say so, course it depends who reviewed it, some are better than others, plus was this reviewed for normalcy and balance or just normalcy. If it was reviewed for normalcy only than anything goes.

Normallicy would catch an illegal role like this one I would say is. Balance means that a game where town is going to get blasted each game can still be ran, just needs to be advertised as a game that may not be balanced. Normallicy and balance are like Celestia and Luna, they go hoof and hoof but are entirely different.

[Rainbowdash]

Mind if I make that my signature?

*squee*

yay acceptance

Go for it.

Bvoigt is probably a good lynch tomorrow. If DW really is scum, Beck and Scumhunter are probably both town.

[Rainbowdash]

why bvoigt?

Twitchy tail.

I just don't like the way he treated Draken around the claim. Feels off.

[Rainbowdash]

My little ponies, he still is lying.

Remember how he started the day with a wierd vote?
Then only moved to Johman when Palmar claim a guilty?
Then unvoted to allow for a counterclaim?
Then expressed doubt that Johman was scum and Palmar faked it?

He is trolling you all good, would have expected a few of you to bite on that but expected better of you SB.

Fly steady.