Mini 1265: Wickedestjr's Mini Normal- Game Over

[Soben]

/Confirm, let the

trolling

playing commence.

[Soben]

Still haven't heard from Scumhunter since signing up for this game but I'm sure he'll turn up soon enough. In the meantime Uphill and Timeater are very much town and anyone that believes that Timeaters aggression is scummy should read any of his previous games. I'm also leaning towards Odysseus being town as well but that's a much weaker read. Don't have any strong scum-reads but Kattys IoA and push on Uphill over nothing reads as scummy.

Vote: Katty Bard

[Soben]

Retrospective, I say cry is because of onions but lol I have no onions. At least maybe this prove I not cheater and only Jaguar is. On a more game related note I do want to know which one of you believe that Trez is town and which believes that he's scum because right now I have a town-read on him that I can't put into words.

Town Reads (S->W):

Timeater, Uphill, Odysseus, DemonHybrid, Treznor.

Null Reads:

El Simo, Redtail896, Yonzy, Gen_Wolf, ScreamingHawk.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Katty Bard, Bionicchop2.

[Soben]

Sure, Bionic joined the game by voting and FoSing people who RVS'ed when there was dicussion that occurred which is generally a null-tell and a sign of a weaker player thus an easier lynch to push. Furthermore while he does this he himself doesn't state his thoughts on any of the discussion that had happened.

[Soben]

Timeater, I see validity in the argument, I just don't exactly agree with it making him scum, I think his unvote was appeasement towards you to a degree but it's moreso a tell of a bad player than anything else. And the second sentence is reasonably accurate, he questioned how Trez had two town-reads already but actually prestented no information himself while taking no stances other than late RVS voters being scummy.

Retrospective, explaining discussions is perfectly fine because it's easily fakable, I've done so quite a few times in the past.

[Soben]

Treznor, sorry it wasn't meant to be an insult and yeah a lot of players have difficulty on D1, I do myself which is why I normally avoid the whole RVS section entirely.

[Soben]

I'm not liking the votes on Treznor at all, his recent posting has greatly strengthened my town read on him and there's much better places for votes to be right now. Oh and Retrospective, nothing prompted me to read Times past games, I was in two and was observing another casually.

Bionicchop2, I didn't mean to say that your vote was random at all. I meant that you yourself avoided commenting on the previous discussion which is essentially the reason behind your vote on Trez in the first place. It just reads as an opportunistic attempt to seem active by picking on the weaker and lurkier players.

Town Reads (S->W):

Timeater, Odysseus, Treznor, Uphill, DemonHybrid.

Null Reads:

Redtail896, Yonzy, Gen_Wolf, ScreamingHawk.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Katty Bard, El Simo, Bionicchop2.

[Soben]

You've spent more time talking about previous games than attempting to scumhunt while maintaining your vote on Timeater for a reason I don't even understand only to appeal to him saying he's looking into things far too deeply which implies you think he's town.

[Soben]

Having said that: Timeater you are looking too much into this. You can't establish a tell based off events external to posted content. Saying you saw him online and noticed he didn't post doesn't count for much, because a) we don't know that he was online and b) even if he was we don't know what his circumstances were. There are too many unaccountable variables.

I was suggesting that he is reaching and that it isn't a legitimate tell at all. This is scummy.

El Simo, I don't get the impression that you were calling him reaching or scummy at all from reading the first quote, it reads more as attempting to give him advice on how to scumhunt which does indeed imply you think he's town. While you're online though I'd love the rest of your reads.

Retropsective, the town-read on DemonHybrid is mostly meta-based and revolves around his attitude towards Timeater when saying "this is completely serious. 22 is so fucking terribad." and "yuck. Go ahead, timeater, you can bus him." but it's a weaker read than my other town reads at the moment.

[Soben]

Hai everyone. Other half of teh hydra here. I will refer to the other half of the hydra as "R" for Regfan from time to time. I jokingly messaged Regfan asking "lol game start yet?!" so we could perhaps discuss ways to troll this game. Of course, the game had already started, 8 posts from Regfan, and I'm fucking around per the usual.

Lol at ScreamingHawk saying we seem nice. I wonder if you will say that by the end of the game

Hai Odysseus.

In all seriousness, I generally agree with the reads R has posted so far this game with a few exceptions:
-I don't see the strong town reads on DH/Timeeater. I think meta-saying someone is town on day 1 is unreliable. Town reads day 1 are very important, but only if they are accurate.
-I don't see bionic as scum. I found his comments on the way he plans to contribute to the discussion to be sincere and it didn't read to me as having some sort of scum-motivation to explain future shameless lurking. The motivation appears to be to keep the game on task and I approve of that.
-All 3 of the above I have happily listed at null right now.

The things we do both agree on though:
-Uphill and Odysseus are both strong town reads.
-Treznor is probably town and we are very much against his lynch.
-Our top two preferred lynches at this point in time are Katty Bard/el simo.

Reasons I potentially think Katty is scum:
-iso #2 meh, maybe its just me but when I see someone discussing bussing early on I usually think scum, because scum are in the mindset from pregame that they may have to bus to win or at least are thinking about their options. Town aren't thinking of bringing up bussing, because well, they are town.
-iso #5 reads as an attempt to appear town and legitimize the RVS stage as if "still not being satisfied" with the Soben vote was something worth discussing really.
-iso #3 is explaining mechanics/aspects of the game seems to me to be a bit of a sidetrack to the suspicions on her.

Katty could just be a female noobing it up. To be completely honest, I'm not saying this to be mean, but I have a hard time reading females sometimes because I find most of their actions so darn illogical and I find their low self-esteems to be borderline scum-appeasement as opposed to a null gender trait. Yes. I'm an asshole. But all this is true.

Katty, do you have any town reads? Why are you trying to explain to the masses why someone is scum so early. There is not much to go on...

Other import thing,

Treznor is town.

Reasons:
-Really, its mostly in his attitude. I can see why people are skeptical of him due to his iso #2, although that unvote was more bad than scummy really.
-His attitude is calm, trying to explain to himself. He is trying to explain to others why he is doing what he is doing. I don't sense any nervousness or hidden intents really. He is trying to communicate clearly which has heaps of good town-motivation behind it.
-His #7 is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. He is apologizing for not quoting earlier to make things apparent. He's trying to explain his actions to town. Scum often try to hide their intent with fence-sitting, etc.
-tldr, Treznor's openness is a town tell.

Now I am completely aware that I could be wrong about Treznor, but I don't think I am. He is probs town and I very much want the wagon on him to dissipate. There are better places to look for scum, (i.e. Katty + elsimo)

Votecount 1.5:

treznor - [3] - Timeater, DemonHybrid, ScreamingHawk
Katty Bard - [2] - Odysseus, Soben
Timeater - [1] - el simo
el simo - [1] - Gen_Wolf
ScreamingHawk - [1] - bionicchop2
bionicchop2 - [1] - Uphill

Not Voting - [4] - Yonzy, treznor, redtail896, Katty Bard

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to no-lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2011-11-09 11:01:07)

[Soben]

Retrospective, I'm understanding and agreeing with majority of your reads and I'm actually surprised that you remember my playstyle so vividly. The only read I'd disagree with is your slight town-read on Redtail, I don't think unvoting in the manner that he did is a town-tell at all in fact if anything it would be a slight degree of appeasement which is a scum-tell coming from an experienced player like Redtail though I'm still leaning null on him right now.

DemonHybrid, join date means almost nothing and in Katty Bards case most certaintly isn't something that points towards her being town at all so if you want to defend your town-read on her I suggest explaining it in more detail. Also what I'm interested in seeing from you though is actually reasoning put together behind why you think Timeater is scum because I'm not seeing it at all and my town-read on him is far more than just meta based.

[Soben]

Demonhybrid, you clearly don't have the best of memories so I'll refresh it for you. You did this exact same tunnel for almost the exact same reasons on Timeater in Enders Mafia where he also threatened to replace out of and was indeed town. What you need to recognize is that he doesn't play like the norm, yes his behavior and his logic is all over the place and his aggression is somewhat questionable but they aren't particularly scum-tells for him in fact I read them as town-tells.

[Soben]

I'm actually starting to get a town-read on Bionic, researching into the possibilities of a double voter (Specifically whether it can be town/scum aligned) reads as a relatively strong town-tell and his paranoia directed towards Odysseus for their double-voter test reads as genuine town paranoia.

DemonHybrid, I disagree, I think meta is highly telling and in this specific case extremely relevant but as long as you're willing to reconsider your read on his player slot when the replacement comes in it's fine. Oh and Gen_Wolf, VI stands for Village Idiot, it's usually a term associated with bad players that are unable to learn.

Town Reads (S->W):

Odysseus, Uphill, Treznor, Timeater, Bionicchop2 DemonHybrid.

Null Reads:

Redtail896, Yonzy, Gen_Wolf, ScreamingHawk.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Katty Bard, El Simo.

[Soben]

DH, I don't think that join-date is a reliable tell. I can see how it has some significant bearing in certain situations, but I don't think this is one of them. Katty's posts aren't apologetic enough. They seem tinged with some peeved passive aggressiveness to me, which honestly, is just about how I'd expect a newer player (or a lot of players really) to react to suspicions on them.

As for Odysseus faking (presumably) being a double voter, I've seen slaxx do that as either alignment.

[Soben]

ninja'd by Soben XD

[Soben]

edit: how'd Id expect a newer player (or a lot of players really) to react

as scum

to suspicions on them.

[Soben]

The whole "Treznor contradicted himself" thing is complete rubbish, if you know for a fact that you commit a particular scum-tell when you're town it doesn't mean that it becomes a null-tell for other players at all, for instance I know for a fact that I avoid the RVS period regardless of my alignment but I still treat avoidance of the thread when attacked as a scum-tell. I also find that Treznors 'lack of reading the thread' as something that's exaggerated, he still is providing usable content and as El Simo stated his lack of patience of reading into all of the posts is moreso a playstyle factor than an alignment one.

I'm actually feeling slightly better about Katty after her recent post though I despise the playstyle of scumhunting purely through ISO's than reading the thread as a whole and actually have found that merely reading and judging people via their ISOs is something scum tend to do more often than not. With all that said though I noticed a different contradiction to the one that Odysseus pointed out in ScreamingHawks post that makes me believe my vote is better warranted elsewhere:

DemonHybrid - Null.

I hate to say this but I really can’t read anything from what you’ve posted. Most of it is quoting other people and disagreeing with whatever is in the post.

I do agree with your #141 on timeater, though I think he is leaning scum.

FightingShadow - Timeater

left me wtf about this slot. But I like your read on the game so far.

Null-town

, more town if I ignore Timeater

This is so full of contradictions it isn't funny, he states that he agrees with DH and that he prestened something new in #141 about Timeater and thinks Timeater is scum but he can't read anything of DHs because he hasn't posted new content (????), he then stated he has a null-town read on FightingShadow/Timeaters slot.

Unvote, Vote: ScreamingHawk

[Soben]

Also Retrospective, you probably know this already but I feel compelled to say it regardless: Sometimes less is more, I know you want to quote strip or elaborate onto all of your reads all the time but it stifles discussion to a degree. I'd recommend merely elaborating into your stronger reads and focusing solely on them at this point.

El Simo, the main or major reason I suspect you isn't related to your lack of activity or content but rather an oddly phrased comment towards Timeater which I still insist reads as if you're attempting to offer him a suggestive tip on how to scumhunt rather than stating you suspect him. I will however make an effort to get Scumhunter to collaborate with me a lot more so we do indeed post as one head from hereon out though our timezone makes discussion slightly difficult.

FightingShadow, you stated that you made an entire post and lost it all in Post #168 then stated that you're doing a 'stream of concious reaction while reading the thread' in Post #175, do you mind explaining to me how that works? Surely your 'reactions' would have occurred when doing your first post (Which got deleted) so isn't your second post (#175) not your natural reaction but rather your thoughts after reading the entire thread?

Town Reads (S->W):

Odysseus, Uphill, Bionicchop2, Treznor, FightingShadow, Yonzy, DemonHybrid.

Null Reads:

Gen_Wolf.

Scum Reads (S->W):

Screaming Hawk, Katty Bard, El Simo, Redtail896.

[Soben]

Once upon a time, I heard that Retrospective made sweet sweet love to Zac Efron.
The result: a disgusting infatuation with wall posts.

[Soben]

Hai. Timeeater replacing out goes to show that he didn't like you Odysseus. Reading alignment confidently off of that either way is a stretch.

[Soben]

Retrospective, if it makes you feel any better I got a similarish town vibe on Katty from reading her post then went back and re-read it to find it not as compelling or strong as I thought previously, overall though I'm feeling better about her and am no longer happy with her lynch today.

Uphill, you will need to explain your Screaming town read for me because I don't see it at all, what about his tone reads town and how is 'that of a person who knows he's right' ever a town-tell? I'll be perfectly honest with you, at this point it almost seems like you are just attempting to differ yourself from the norms opinion and push your own alternate one at each turn just for the sake of being different. It's something I did a long time ago and it's not something I recommend.

Did my observations affect this at all? Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a lynch this early at all. But it bothers me that your defense of him was four bullet points, three of which basically stated the same thing. Seems like you're trying to buff up a defense that doesn't have that much merit in the first place. That's sketchy . . . especially if Treznor flips scum.

Sorry, I'm failing to understand this at all, how would you observations potentially affect a post that was made long before you replaced in? Also Scumhunter made that post because he was insistent and I am too that Trez is very likely town and wanted to kill any wagon that may occur on him at the time, I also fail to see what about the points you consider as 'weak' and the 'four points being the same thing' are addressing various posts of his leading towards him being likely town.

[Soben]

ScreamingHawk, Fighting and Timeater are one slot, they share one alignment, this is undeniable. I can completely understand reading one of their actions as scummy and the other as townie but that doesn't change the fact that in your reads list you stated you had two entirely different reads on the slot at the moment, you called them scum and called them town. Not just that but you stated you agreed with DH on Time being scum due to his reasons while stating the slot is currently a town-read of yours, none of this makes any sense whatsoever.

Retrospective, I too rather deter the lynch just a little bit longer purely because there's a few reads I'm iffy on at the moment and would like a bit more time to strengthen them however there isn't any particular reason that Screaming shouldn't claim at this point because I don't see myself moving my vote any point soon.

Uphill, thanks, I can understand what you mean in regards to your Screaming town-read now but I disagree with it, mafia are often insistent that they aren't being scummy and that they haven't contradicted themselves thefore questioning peoples suspicion on you isn't a town-tell in the slightest.

FightingShadow, I'll let Scumhunter (The other head) repsond to why he explained it in bulletpoints since he made the post but I'll take a guess and state that it's generally how he likes elaborating into his reads. Regardless I'm not understanding what exactly you're attempting to get at here at all - We do still have a town-read on Trez and it isn't all revolving around those 4 bulletpoints.

[Soben]

FS, ya I word things funny. I fail at grammar/have a hard time clearly communicating my ideas as much as my partner here sometimes. You could call my post defending Treznor redundant, which it was, but I prefer to call it repetitive on purpose to emphasize how strongly I disliked the treznor wagon. Our #1 goal at that point was to get votes off Treznor because we saw him as town and him being lynched seemed somewhat possible at that point and we really didn't want that to happen. Yup, I was trying to make my points look as strong as possible. Is that a bad thing? Oh and yea, most of my reads are based on gut, where as R is all-logic, all the time.

[Soben]

Why do you find it strange to defend a town read who is in danger of being lynched? What "goods" are you referring to?

[Soben]

It's directed to ScreamingHawk about FightingShadow/Timeater.

[Soben]

I need to talk to Scumhunter as soon as possible but at this point I'm leaning heavily against believing the claim.

ScreamingHawk, did you breadcrumb anywhere?

[Soben]

Soben, before you talk to Scumhunter, I wanna know why you believe it.

I don't.

[Soben]

Bionic, Uphill, and Odysseus, you are all town. Stop fighting with each other please <3.

I have no issue with bionic's post. The utility of a town JK once outted on day 1 isn't much. It's a great late-game role, but once outted day 1, there likely isn't a JK + doc in the game so town-SH dies tonight anyways. So we really don't lose much by SH-town (other than the ML). Now, the mislynch itself is a big thing but that is the risk that we take when we lynch anybody really.

Bionic explained himself fine and raised a good point that town-SH would have claimed earlier/had more interest in this game/been pissed for being outted on day 1. SH's claim reads very much like "drrrr, im pr don't lynch me".

Haven't had chance to touch base with my partner but from his posts doesn't seem like he buys the claim either. I'm still very much in support of a SH-lynch at this point unless someone can explain some new town tell from his recent posts that doesn't boil down to being afraid to lynch a town pr d1.

Oh and we both still want to see DH's promised reads list.

[Soben]

Spoken with Scumhunter though hilariously enough he was incredibly drunk during the conversation and neither of us believe this claim at all. His claim does read as a last minute attempt at claiming something that seems unlynchable and is unlikely to be counter-claimed, furthermore his absence and refrainment from posting in the thread when placed at L-1 and asked to claim reads as scum trying to think through what to fake-claim and his lack of care or worry about being so close to a lynch makes me highly doubt he's town.

Retrospective, there's actually a lot about your reads that I'm not understanding so I'd love it if you could answer a few questions for me:

1. Is your 9 on the scale for FS mostly revolving around Timeaters rage quit or is there something in particular you read as strongly town from FS?
2. What is the reasoning behind your drop in town-read on Uphill from 8 to 6? If anything his recent play has strengthened my town-read on him?
3. Is your slight scum-read on DH purely based around his lack of content which is caused by his V/LA? What's Slaxxs read on him at the moment?

[Soben]

Retrospective, as I said earlier I think Uphills reluctance of agreeing with lynching ScreamingHawk is just him as a player wanting to be on the opposite page to everyone else and don't think it's any reason to suspect him at all. If anything his defense reads as a town-tell regardless of Screamings alignment because he's openly attracting attention towards himself from it.

My town read on DH at this point is mostly gut and partially meta based which is something I attempt to avoid holding onto and I know for a fact that Soben doesn't agree with it. Also I don't think DHs lack of activity or posting is any form of tell with him at the moment though I know where you're coming from in thinking that.

[Soben]

I know at least one of each of your guys' heads have read and acknowledged my explanation for my Hawk town read, so if you're not one of those heads, could you please consult with a head that did and knock it off with this shit?

I could and can see where your town-read on him comes from but you've completely ignored his incredibly ungeninue claim and ignored all the points put forward for why it's fake just to stick with your 'different' read.

[Soben]

I'll try and avoid saying too much since this is twilight but at this point I'm almost positive that we're seeing a scum flip today, Screaming was just recently online posting elsewhere but didn't post here at all. I'm also almost certain that Odysssus, Bionichop, Treznor and Uphill are town with weaker town-reads on DemonHybrid and FightingShadow. I'm nowhere near confident in my read on anyone else at this point though I lean towards Yonzy and Redtail896 being mafia.

[Soben]

Why do you think DH is scum now? I agree with most of your reads, flip Yonzy and DH and we are just about spot on.

[Soben]

I see. I'm going to refrain from posting too much more until I get a chance to talk to Reg, as it appears we disagree on a couple of reads. Its taking all the self-control in the world not to troll right now as is, and if I start posting more, there is like no chance I can control myself.

[Soben]

Why do you think DH is scum now? I agree with most of your reads, flip Yonzy and DH and we are just about spot on.

This was a Scumhunter post, I urge you all to ignore it.

Odysseus, I see where you're coming from in regards to DH-bussing as he distances/soft-bussed MoS in Faradays game but apart from his weak push on Timeater and SH I'm not seeing the massive scum-read that you guys supposedly have on him. I'm actually interested in hearing one of you two present a case if possible.

Redtail896, I think VCA is generally relatively useless in the earlier stages of the game, even with a flipped scum. You need a much larger sample of data and information to draw real conclusions and your 'one scum on the wagon' analysis is very shaky though your logic behind FS being town is quite sound.

[Soben]

I personally really don't have any strong scum reads at all at this point but I have a handful of incredibly strong town reads. I'd bank on Odysssus, Uphill, Bionichop2 and FightingShadow being town with multiple other weaker town reads that I want to focus on re-reading. In particular Yonzy because I don't see Scumhunters scum read on him but hopefully we can both get online soon and discuss it in more detail. Not understanding the Treznor kill though and it's bugging me thinking about it.

[Soben]

KattyBard and Yonzy are scum.

*snores*

[Soben]

We will vote in due time, we just got through a massive discussion about the entire game and I'll try and explain all of our reads in more detail and depth later today when it isn't early morning but the gist of it is that we're relatively confident that the scum are within a pool of Yonzy, KattyBard and DemonHybrid with Yonzy and DemonHybrid being unlikely partners therefore making KattyBard the optimal lynch for today.

As for why we suspect Katty other than PoE; I don't think it's SHs avoidance of Katty that brings up the biggest red flags at all but rather the fact that she avoided placing a vote on anyone on the later half of the day combined with her accusing other people of not providing original reads and claiming that 'going against the grain' is a town-tell while not doing it herself at any point throughout the day. Another major thing that caught me eye was that SH asked Odysseus to elaborate into what Odysseus found to be a town-tell in Kattys recent post, I don't find it likely that scum would ask town to explain and elaborate on a town-read on another town member when they're likely to be lynched. It seems much more likely and realistic that he thought Odysseus vocalizing and explaining the read would potentially lead to multiple people agreeing with it and Katty receiving some town-cred.

[Soben]

Essentially our reads right now are:

Strong Town:

Bionicchop2, FightingShadow, Odysseus, Uphill, Redtail896.

Weak Town:

El Simo, Gen_Wolf.

Remaining:

DemonHybrid, Katty Bard, Yonzy.

I don't particularly feel the need to elaborate into my town-read of Odysseus, Uphill, FightingShadow or Bionicchop2 as I've explained them multiple times previously. My strong-ish town-read on Redtail896 revolves a lot around his content throughout today, with the exception of his VCA being shaky he has been making a great deal of sense, furthermore his response directed towards ScreamingHawk yesterday makes me doubt their partners leaving him to be very likely town.

As for my town-read on El Simo, it has to do with the fact that his posts at the later half of yesterday improved massively along with his hammer on SH reading as genuine though with all that said I do very much want to see some content from him today. Our town-read on Gen has a lot to do with his attitude and while I acknowledge that his suspicion of Odysseus may be an attempt to create doubt as scum it honestly looks like generally paranoid town which is also shown in a few sections of his read lists in post #217, in particular his read on Treznor and us though he needs to stop prod-dodging and post real content again.

[Soben]

Yonzy, I'll let Scumhunter explain it but it revolves around your reads post reading as highly fence-sitty especially towards ScreamingHawk, you said he was lazy-town/scum without drawing a solid conclusion along with parts of it reading as buddying and sucking up by having multiple 'strongest' town reads.

Gen_Wolf, I don't think claiming without having used your shot was the right move because now there's the possibility of you being roleblocked and potentially losing your shot completely but your claim essentially makes you confirmed town which makes this game all the more easy.

[Soben]

Ah, my bad. I didn't read the day-section of it. In that case I'd vote towards having Katty shot.

[Soben]

I agree with Odysseus, if the day kill ends the day there's no particular reason to use it however I have a strong suspicion that you've misunderstood the role because I'm struggling to see what potential benefits there is to that role at all other than confirming you as town if it replaces the lynch altogether.

I did some re-reading earlier and I'm even more confident in El Simo being town so at this point I'm almost certain that all of the remaining scum lie inside the pool of Katty, Yonzy and DemonHybrid and fully support a Katty shot or lynch though I'd like her to claim beforehand as well as give DemonHybrid a chance to post.

[Soben]

I don't fully believe the claim but at the same time I'm confident that there's some form of protective role in the setup and DHs claim fits that, I'd prefer that Katty also claim before any shot is fired but I'm also considering the possible benefits of asking any protective role out there to counter-claim DemonHybrid.

[Soben]

DemonHybrid, any chance I can get an updated read list from you? Also an explanation as to why you were okay being shot in #374 if you are a bodyguard?

[Soben]

I very much regret not faking a guilty on Odysseus to start this day. 1-shot day vigs are what dreams are made of.

[Soben]

Matias, if you are a bodyguard, we would hope you would realize that your role is important to the game. Shooting what would most likely be the only protective town role in the setup as a daykill on day 2 would be bad for town. I'm wondering if you were trying to feign indifference at being shot at first, and then realized oh shit, I probably WILL be shot if I don't do something, hence the claim. Of course, its also possible that you realized you needed to claim because you are in fact a bodyguard and didn't want to get shot. Also, why did you say you protected Uphill, obviously. Not that I think Uphill is scum persay, but why was that an obvious target for you?

[Soben]

This is on my phone so more later but I support a massclaim now.

Massclaim is unneeded, we merely need a protective role counterclaim to occur if there is one.

[Soben]

Yonzy, my scum read on you is part process of elimination, but also as my partner said it revolves mostly around your mega reads list on day 1. You have SH marked as "scum/lazy townie?". The ambiguity of that read gives you plenty of room to work with in changing your read as needed. I find that scum love to label their partners in a way that shows lack of conviction so that they can change their reads on them as needed. I was also wondering if you asking SH to claim was a bit of coaching to get him to claim a PR.

I found your DH read as strongest scumread a bit suspect d1 too. On further review, you do give reasons for your suspicion on him which could in fact be valid reasons/good scumhunting if DH is scum. Eh, I originally read it as potential scum-distancing, but it could just be that you were on to something. Idk about you.

I think our point that scum-SH would have no reason to try and ask for odysseus to out his town tells on town-Katty Bard when Katty was the alternative lynch wagon to himself. Me thinks Katty is scum.

Right now, we want Katty to claim and then to go from there.

Katty/DH is current guess for scum.

[Soben]

You realize that if DH is BG and there was still an investigative role, that would be our fourth PR, right? Town has two auto-clears, one with day kill, a BG AND an investigative role? If DH is legit, we have nothing else we can reveal.

I don't agree with any of this speculation at all. Four power roles is generally standard in mini normals, with 1-2 being relatively stronger, so far none of the power role claims have been excessively powerful so it's entirely possible that there's multiple remaining power roles and mass-claim is uneeded just yet.

[Soben]

Only scum post walls, shoot Odysseus.

I'm going to read the post properly when I get home from work but right now we're all waiting on Katty to get in here and claim.

[Soben]

Odysseus, I think you're overanalyzing his posts to a degree and that means a lot coming from me. For instance DemonHybrids attack on Timeater is really not that alignment indicative or relevant to a case against him. I'd recommend in future on focusing purely on what you consider to be scum-tells dropped by someone.

You did however point out a few interesting things in your analysis including his awkward stances on Katty, his constant changing of votes and suspects without really attempting to explain them and his meta is meaningless/meta is why RT is possibly scum contradiction. I still prefer Katty to be shot but I can very much see where you're coming and agree in regards to a possible DemonHybrid/Katty Bard scum-team.

[Soben]

Too long, didn't read, etc.

[Soben]

Oh man, this game. Is mass-claim optimal now because I'm thinking it is. Bionic, Uphill, Fishy, Gen and Odyssus are close enough to conftown and Redtail and Simo are highly likely town. Final scum is one of Katty or Yonzy, relatively certain of that.

[Soben]

We have enough wiggle room to lynch Odysseus and still win.

Odysseus, I want an answer from both of your heads on whether mass-claim is the way to go or not.

[Soben]

Oh, don't get me wrong I welcome everyones opinion and comments on whether we should mass-claim or not, I just know that both heads of Odysseus has a lot of experience when it comes to working out optimal time to mass-claim especially Slaxx in minis.

[Soben]

Actually, you know what. Fuck it, I was going to hold of claiming to discuss this further and get more peoples opinions but it's pointless. We're gunsmith, we investigated redtail last night and he has no gun. Given the fact that mafia godfather is now dead (Who we were told would be shown as no-gun) Redtail is clear.

Vote: Katty

[Soben]

Oh and I think Scumhunter tried to convince me to fake a guilty on Odysseus to have him vig shot and troll to give scum a chance at least 20 times this game.

[Soben]

I still maintain that Katty is just female gender telling. Women don't have the balls to bus both their teammates. She pushed on both SH and DH and while sure "everyone was doing it" neither of them particularly feel like busses to me. Yonzy should claim. If he is VT, we lynch him and we check Katty tonight.

[Soben]

unvote, vote Yonzy

[Soben]

A great deal of the points you've raised in the above post are heavily flawed. With that said Scumhunter is offline and I'm feeling content to move our vote back.

Unvote, Vote: Katty

[Soben]

Odysseus, I don't think there's anything more PR wise than us and a protective role who I'm relatively sure I know who it is and it's not Katty.

Bionic, he was asked to claim.

[Soben]

In case it's not obvious, if the game doesn't end here the doctor or bodyguard needs to be on us tonight. If there's a jailkeeper they can flip a coin, heads is being on us and tails is not.

[Soben]

Let the woman live.

[Soben]

I want a perfect win and the last scum is Yonzy.

[Soben]

By Grabthar's hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged.

[Soben]

Yonzy, best guess at who is scum right now?

[Soben]

vote Yonzy

[Soben]

We didn't check Yonzy, we checked El Simo, he came back with no gun whatsoever. As it currently stands:
Soben - Gunsmith
el simo - Gunsmith cleared.
redtail896 - Gunsmith cleared.
Gen_Wolf - Daykill cleared.
bionicchop2 - Obvtown.
Odysseus - Obvtown.

That means it leaves only:

Fishythefish
Uphill
Yonzy

We have 3 mslynches minimum I believe as well as another investigation tonight (We know who doc is and Odysseus does too thus they would have shot them last night and not towards us which I believe scum did). At this point it's automatic win.

[Soben]

I told you simo couldn't be scum the second DH flipped... As far as I am concerned that is a waste of an investigation. Let's just quick lynch Yonzy and move on if it's wrong.

Our original plan was to check Simo and reaction-test fake a guilty on Yonzy to either get him to confess or town-tell but Scumhunter ruined that by not reading our QT before posting and given the doctor save giving us another mslynch there wasn't really any need to reaction test anymore.

[Soben]

HEY YOU TROLL IDIOTS, CHECK UPHILL TONIGHT.

Just reaffirming, we're checking Gen_Wolf tonight and if we get a gun result on him we lynch him, right?

[Soben]

There's too many people without guns to lynch, we'll need to specify the criteria. I'd suggest starting by lynching anyone with over 90 posts.

[Soben]

Actuall Soben you need to check your sanity. Check to Soben to see if they have a gun.

You fucking idiot, there's no such thing as an insane gunsmith, negged.

[Soben]

Wicked specifically stated this was a bastard mini normal

Is it possible that Screaming and DemonHybrid are death millers then????????????

[Soben]

I lost control of our hydras vote after yesterdays mslynch. I'll talk with Scumhunter about it when he gets online though. I also really really can't see Fishys/Times slot as scum so I'm confident saying an investigation/lynch on Yonzy/Uphill will end the game.

And no Yonzy, dead players still win if their faction wins.

[Soben]

Uphill possess no gun. What the fuck.

[Soben]

Our role PM states that mafia godfather if in the game will have no gun, all other mafia will have a gun. Cops and vigs if in the game will have guns as town. That's it.

[Soben]

My only guess right now is that GenWolf is mafia sided? Can mafia have a day kill ability?

This was my first thought too, I'm reading up on it and seeing if I can get an answer around. Considering the situation though I'm just going to outright ask;

Are you the doctor? And did you save us on the night with a missing kill? (I'm 99% the answer to these questions are yes).

[Soben]

Unvote, we're not quick lynching today. I want to have a conversation with Scumhunter before we even consider placing votes down and I want Bionics claim.

[Soben]

Odysseus were soft-claiming to attract the night kill. Bionics reaction towards DemonHybrids BG claim makes me highly confident that he's the doctor but I want his claim, now.

[Soben]

Yeah, you're right and we do need to mass-claim.

PoE just says that one of You/Bionic/Fishy is scum, you wouldn't have double bussed and you saw Bionics doc-tells as well and would have shot him. Bionics town via being doctor (That is if I'm correct) which leaves Fishy as scum, it's just that posts like #538 read as soooo town.

[Soben]

Ah, there it is. Thanks for speeding it up for us Bionic but with two mslynches, a lylo lynch and another investigation it was indeed impossible for you to win. You played a really good game though, just unfortunate with how it panned out.

Vote: Bionic

[Soben]

In b4 bionic is epic trolling doctor

[Soben]

I would only suggest making

day stages

48 hours

I agree!!!

[Soben]

We can also have a redemption island where lynched townies have a chance at getting back in the game.

Woah, Gen_Wolf is a genius!