Open 9 - Basic Twelve Player (Game Over!) - before 400

[spectrumvoid]

wow i gotta say im quite surprised that everyone seems to think i-in my first Mafia Game here, is actually a baddie. Unfortunately i am not a Mafia, nor do i have any interesting role. I am a townie.

SV pops in now because she forgot to add this game on watch list.

Why the heck did you claim on page 2?

[spectrumvoid]

well i dont see how 'claiming' early on is bad logic. The Mafia will already know that i am either a townie or a special character. Bearing in mind they are trying to eliminate the special characters, claiming to be protown early on is GOOD.

Good for you as in you survive maybe. But that is extremely selfish logic, because it's bad for us town. You don't seem to care about whether scum nightkill a pro-town power role or not. The more townies claim, the more likely pro-town power roles will get nightkilled.

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vote: Battle Mage

Because of earlier post (for not caring about us town), and for accusing Fircoal of saying his claiming was bad logic, when Fircoal was talking about something else (the lowell/mc issue). Misrepresentation = scum.

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I'll elaborate since you misunderstood. I was tired last night, so I think I summarised a little too much.

I'm obviously voting not voting you because I think you're a selfish townie. Duh. I'm voting you because I think you threw that claim there to mess things up, scum. (I thought the inherent contradiction in that selfish TOWNIE, yet me voting for a TOWNIE was obvious, but I apologise for not flashing it out.) Whether or not your claim is true is irrelevant, the point is the timing of your claim itself (at <100 posts).

I also voted you for misrepresenting Fircoal. I thought this was obvious though from the 'misrepresentation = scum' last sentence in my earlier post.

Fircoal say in post 56 that 'bad logic' = BM going for lowell to save a citizen.' He then clarifies that he got confused.

(On a side-not here, I think the confusion here is genuine. BM says in the quote that he 'can assume HE is not mafia.' Then he votes lowell. The confusion was due to poor grammar. Which HE? Lowell or MC? It's BM's fault here for not clarifying what he meant.)

In post 57, BM says he doesn't see how claiming is bad logic. This misrepresents what Fircoal said, because Fircoal was talking about lowell and MC in post 56, not about claiming.

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With that said, I don't think BM's vote on me was OMGUS. It wasn't a retaliatory vote, it was a vote that had reason behind it, ie, he thought I was scummy for being confused.

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BM: What flaw in which theory were you referring to?

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Lowell: You do realise that your point about how scum would react is completely wifomish right? Scum could have guessed you'd think that way and react that way on purpose. Wifomish.

BM: I can sympathise with BM to a certain extent. I'm from IRC mafia, where games end in 30 min, with a different way of playing. But it's your reaction that I find alarming. Since you're willing to try this site, shouldn't you start learning how people play around here, instead of being close-minded and sticking to your old playstyle?

I don't like that demanding an attitude apology from everyone who voted you. Sorry to be mean here, but that sounds extremely childish. If you act scummy, expect yourself to get voted. And stop whining about it.

Anyone who thinks that much about a game = anyone who is trying to win. Are you saying you aren't going to try hard to find scum? You'll find yourself lynched very easily that way in a larger game with more players with that attitude.

unvote

I think BM's problem here is his attitude. I don't think he's scum, more like a player who needs time to learn. Pending his reaction to my rather inflaming post.

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SL: Why?

I didn't ignore that. It was in my first para where I said it was wifomish.

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BM: https://www.mafiascum.net/cgi-bin/wiki. ... reviations

This page a list of more commonly used abbreviations.

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Can't be true. Any idea why? Or should I just reveal all? And why did SL post without answering my question? Psssh.

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BM: I can sympathise with BM to a certain extent. I'm from IRC mafia, where games end in 30 min, with a different way of playing.

edit (go read a page back)

I think BM's problem here is his attitude. I don't think he's scum, more like a player who needs time to learn. Pending his reaction to my rather inflaming post.

vote: AndrewS

i) For blatent misrepresenting.
ii) Or for being a skimmer.

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I think MC has generally disappeared. I've been prodding him elsewhere too, and I'm about to look for a replacement.

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Awesome. Something for you to do: Who's scummy?

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Nice post. I've seen much worse than that from newbies. (I was so idiotic in my first newbie, I got myself lynched day 1 when I was cop.)

Just bear in mind that there's probably no standard 'scummy' behaviour. There are possible scum-tells we can look out for, but keep an open mind.

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I was referring to Akbar. Darn simulposting.

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unvote

Erm... AndrewS the point isn't about you missing the post. I think the wagon is on you not because you're inattentive, but because of possible misrepresentation.

I do not think AndrewS is scummy because of that, it's probably an innocent mistake. Reason being I'm a pretty active poster, he couldn't have tried to malign me since it was so easy for me to point it out.

It's the people on the AndrewS wagon who worry me.

vote: IH

(I'm giving BM some leeway here and I know it, but IH's an experienced player.)

[spectrumvoid]

[quote
=
'NAME'] BLAHBLAH [/
quote]

Same for

BOLD

Remove the enter.

No, it's not hypocrisy. I voted AndrewS because of a possible scum-tell (misrepresentation), and to see his reaction. The people on the wagon hopped on really quickly.

Ditto to all questions.

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If I'm getting this right, the main reason for the vote and fos on me is me supposedly distancing from IH, and the tone of my posts... I'm voting IH for his quick wagoning and because he's a good player, he knows better. I've been in plenty of games with him, so I'm pretty sure I know him well. I'm not getting the tone of my posts bit, but no worries, I am a nice person - really!

IH: So... how long do you need to read through 8 pages?

I'm going to throw suspicion on lowell here: for basically clearing 3 out of 10 people... that's 33.3%, for reasons that I don't think are valid.

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Oh, and it's 10 people because we have 11 alive, and lowell obviously clears himself.

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Erm... in Switch Mafia I was scum. I purposely left you alone because I knew we were going to night-kill you. We (scum-group) planned to attack people who mentioned the list, blame them on wifoming, then push for lynch.

Obviously, the same is not true this game.

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Pokes everyone.

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IH caught a virus.

Twito: I find you uberscummy in most games I'm in with you, but you don't see me accusing you or defending you on that basis. Bad bad metagaming.

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That's probably the most grammatically correct post I've ever seen from BM.

I'd say those on IH are frustrated town who've spotted scum.

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Sounds a like to me like: You voted me! Bam!

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unvote

A couple of things:
Ripley:
1. In post 227, he suspects IH of intentionally avoiding this thread (lurking = scummy). Directly in his next post 238, he lists a long detailed case for BM. A good explanation for this: Ripley-scum gave up on the IH case since on one bit. And since IH has been at lynch -2 for some time and still not lynched, he could be going after BM instead, since BM is the next best candidate we were discussing.

2. The main reasons I get from his wanting a quick-lynch is
a: he's frustrated with the low activity, and he thinks the day will keep dragging
b: he does not want scum to get more info via role claiming.

A: he should've guessed that his post will kick off discussion, so a doesn't stand.

B: I'd instead argue that town gains more info via role claiming. And why does he seem so sure that we'll out a cop? I'd rather push for a claim from a scummy person and start deciding whether that claim is true. That gives us way more info. I'd also argue that we cannot depend on cops, due to possibility of nightkills. We need to depend on our scumdar, and that requires information. I'd also argue that pushing for a quick-lynch at this point deprives us of that info.

And by the way, newbie 280 a 7 player game hit 20+ pages for day 1. I don't see why a lynch at page 10 with more players isn't considered a quick lynch.

vote: Ripley

Implications:
I'd argue that if we lynch Ripley and he's scum, BM is unlikely to be his scum partner.

I'd also argue that IH's alignment is uncertain. As stated earlier, Ripley could have tried for IH (town) and failed, changing to BM. Or Ripley could be deflecting the lynch to BM, implying IH-scum.

Fircoal: Unlike Fircoal, I don't see anything wrong with Fircoal not voting. I think IH was at -1 or -2, which is pretty close to lynch. So there's nothing wrong with holding back. Lowell: Are you saying we should do what Ripley said, and quick-lynch IH despite having more info now?

However, I see Fircoal's non-contributiveness as slightly scummy. I'll bring this up again tomorrow when we're guessing scum pairings, but Fircoal's not the lynch for today at the moment.

IH: I'd like you to respond to post 243.

Akbar: Anything to add at all?

AndrewS: Can't remember whether I've said it this game, so bear with me. Assuming that BM mafia wouldn't act so stupid is WIFOMish. Reason being BM could very well be mafia pretending to be stupid to make us think that he's town since scum would play more carefully.

TCS: Care to explain your FOS?

[spectrumvoid]

Skimminng through, more tonight.

3. Continuing the day would presumably lead to more bandwagons and more claims. By lynching at this stage we avoid any more townie claims and. most importantly, avoid outing the cop.

This is really an argument for a prompt lynch rather than a lynch of BM specifically

, but since he's my preferred candidate it is also by extension an argument for lynching him.

Well, if you really want, I can give you links to around 75 games or so that I've read/played in. Note also that the longer the day drags, the higher the chance of getting scum, whether there're claims or night. Mini 361 Leper is a great example, where day 1 was so fruitful town managed to lynch all 3 scum on consecutive days, despite a few claims.

[spectrumvoid]

I just wanted to make it clear which part of the post I was responding to. And I bolded that bit in response to Ripley's not pushing for a quick lynch response.

Regarding evaluating the claim, I always believe that yes, it's possible to look and try to guess validity of claim. I refuse to speculate about whether mafia will claim cop because I want to avoid giving hints to scum on how to claim.

I can see possibly a lynch for lowell today, with his weird lynch-hungriness. I can also see a lynch for IH and Ripley. I'm not getting where the lynch for andrew is coming from.

[spectrumvoid]

This is the most awful piece of logic I've seen in a while, using a single example of an unusually long Day 1 in another game as evidence that a lynch now, in this particular game, would be a "quick lynch". I could point to a game where they lynched on Page 2 and argue the precise opposite. I won't do so because it would be insulting to people's intelligence.

The offer of links was in response to this.

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SL is an experienced player.

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SL is an experienced player.

Then can YOU explain his posts?

No. Are you hoping I'll provide your scum buddy with some good excuse so he can pass it off as his own?

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I'm extremely wary of the way TCS is jumping through hoops held by Akbar.

FOS: both of them

Scum buddy leading scum buddy.

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You conveniently left out the part about me threatening to lynch TCS if IH is town.

That's bullshit and you know it. Every time another day starts, most people go through the thread, look over the pushers/defenders of yesterday's lynch, and look through other people depending on the alignment of the dead person if we lose someone at night. So it's a whole new ball game tomorrow. Also, directing lynches for the next day = scum-tell

vote: akbar

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Gah, forgot to unvote.

unvote, vote akbar

Sorry, I was on page 12 and didn't realise there was a page 13. Either way, the vote on akbar still stands.

[spectrumvoid]

unvote because of this

:

I will be away from now till Monday due to Chinese New Year.

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vote: Fircoal

This is pretty much based on what lowell said regarding his behaviour to the IH wagon.

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Please note that I wasn't even around during the time of the wagon. I'd unvoted my vote on Akbar before I left, and I didn't contribute further to either wagon.

[spectrumvoid]

Finally a few thoughts about

spectrumvoid

, so very conveniently absent at the lynching hour, though the deadline was extended by a day to allow her time to return from her weekend off and vote. The deadline was Tuesday the 20th, 11 pm GMT. spectrumvoid posted in 5 other threads on Tuesday the 20th, well before the deadline. She therefore omitted this one through choice, not force of circumstance. Note also that immediately before she left she was voting Akbar.

No, I'd unvoted Akbar in post 321.

I was in 20/21 games. I did not post in around 3 other games that were also at deadline.

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Oh, and I should clarify that the games have ended and I'm a proven town.

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2. Newbie something I was town. Mini 400 I was vig.

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Out of the 9 remaining people, I agree with SL here that lowell here is unlikely to be scum. I've played with him quite a bit, so I'm pretty sure I know him pretty well. (not 100% cleared though, more like 80%.)

I took a look at the voting records, and I agree that Ripley is not scum due to his voting behaviour.

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TCS: Do you mean you disagree with what Twito said about SL's scumminess, yet you vote SL?

Lowell: Why are you letting yourself be led around?

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What is softclaiming? (I genuinely have never seen this word before.)

Okay, on the assumption that TCS knows what he's doing.

That's what my comment was referring to.

TCS: Satisfied with the clarification.

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TCS: I'd like you to explain who you think is soft-claiming.

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Eek. CPU error.

Not that I'm that much more IC, but I think soft-claiming is scum-tell. It outs the cop.

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Personally, I don't think what BM did was a soft-scum-tell. I also do not buy the reasons for SL at the moment.

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What do I think what?

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I spent two days thinking over this.

I'll claim. I'm a cop.

First night, I investigated SL, because SL-scum has managed to fool me before. Second night, I sent in an earlier choice to investigate Akbar because I was away. The mod pmed me later and told me the deadline was extended. I changed my night choice to BM. The main reason for this is because I've played many games with BM, and I think he's behaved scummy in almost every one of them, so I thought it'd be best to get it out of the way.

I've been lying really low this game, but I think having 3 cleared is worth outing our cop.

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That's the reason I've been defending SL and BM. They're town.

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Yes.

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I'm guessing all the scum were on your wagon. Seriously speaking, yesterday you exhibited scum-tells. If scum weren't already on your wagon, it would have been easy to pile on and defend their actions today by saying something like you really acted scummy, so they were justified in lynching you.

The vote count at deadline was:
IH (5) -- Lowell, Akbar, AndrewS, The Central Scrutiniser, Ripley
Akbar (5) -- Shadowlurker, Twito, IH, Battle Mage, Fircoal

Discounting BM and SL, that leaves Twito and Fircoal. Our 2 scum. I haven't really taken a look at how the IH wagon built up, but I think Fircoal is scummy due to the timing of his vote on you. Similarly, I don't think Ripley is scummy.

[spectrumvoid]

That's basically why I investigated BM: I think he's scum in every game.

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I don't think it's likely that we were so awesome we managed to run up 2 scum at deadline. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that it's unlikely.

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vote: Twito

I'd support either a Twito or Fircoal lynch.

It's an open game, I'll be dead tonight anyway

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Bah.

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Luckily I was dead... I picked all wrong scum. Well played to the people who were alive!