Mini 1439 -- Game Over

[don_johnson]

now you guys are in for it. someone please give me a summary of the game so far.

[don_johnson]

om: your word is good as gold for me. i'll bite. consider me your sidekick.

vote: mr. bump

[don_johnson]

At least get off the d_j/chillkid wagon for now

I don't have faith that's he is town, so no. Much more likely scum than town currently in my opinion.

whatchu need, bra?

[don_johnson]

^^LOL. Om can't be scum. you are a fool.

[don_johnson]

Why am I the only one voting qwints atm?

well, i have already pledged my allegiance to nom. help us lynch our guy, then we can help you lynch yours? Hey om, can we bring fegel into our club?

[don_johnson]

Don johnsn is a buddy that will have to be investigated further.

i prefer the term "sidekick".

p-edit: fegel, join us...

[don_johnson]

"sidekick".

you are not a very good listener. i'll bet your girlfriend says that to all her girlfriends...

[don_johnson]

^^trudat.

[don_johnson]

just iso'd chillkid. looks fine to me. voted, gave reads. moved the game forward. you seem to be taking advantage of an empty slot.

[don_johnson]

when i get the time. just having fun for now. maybe sunday or monday. thanks for noticing.

[don_johnson]

i'm in this game. i know it.

feg: why is bump town?

[don_johnson]

iso of qwints. qwints lynch > fegel lynch atm. just seems to be bouncing around, asking somewhat generic questions.

whats the case on fegel? does it have anything to do with not answering questions?

feg: why is bump town?

@Don: I said why I thought Bump was Town earlier.

did i miss something?

[don_johnson]

unvote vote: qwints

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote: fegelein

bacde: i get the feeling you have a genuine townread on me and that you are not scum trying to buddy me. so i bend the knee in fealty here. take us to victory. don't be too hard on om. pretty sure they are town too.

[don_johnson]

unvote, vote fegelein

[don_johnson]

we could just lynch you? then you wouldn't have to read...

[don_johnson]

so i am being voted because....

i'm not sure what there was to respond to. accusations about chillkid? i don't know chill, and have never played with him. but i have his role pm and so i know everything he posted is genuine. so maybe i am suffering from confirmation bias, but i didn't see anything wrong with chillkids posting. i don't think i have even read this thread yet. so i can't really give any decent analysis. if you want to lynch me for it, well then i guess i would have to read and post, but i'd rather just skate through day 1. worry about it later. so let me know.

[don_johnson]

i think a bump wagon may be the way to go, actually. but again, i haven't been paying superclose attention. i did notice, however, that he is just lurkerhunting. all his scumreads keep replacing out, then he's like "where's cowbells?" but thats just a gut read based on the last 2 pages.

[don_johnson]

I've been in the same shoes as don before (having to sub in for a scummy Townie), so I can sort of sympathize there.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

In case I'm not able to post, I'm gonna vote for the wagon that I hate the least that has a chance.

vote: feglein

I wish we could have lynched better d1.

which wagon would be better?

[don_johnson]

or we could just get on with the business of lynching you?

vote: feg

[don_johnson]

no. you are a lynch because you should have been lynched yesterday, but the wagon was derailed to cheery dog.

[don_johnson]

step 1) lynch feg.

[don_johnson]

that is another good reason to simply lynch him.

[don_johnson]

you guys are idiots. its page 27. trying to characterize this as an "insta-lynch" will only serve to make you look scummy should feg flip town. feg should have been lynched "yesterday". lynching him today would be almost the exact opposite of an "insta-lynch". he's been browsing the forum now and doing nothing. his desire to replace out reeks more of frustration than anything else. even if he's town, his slot is corrupted and its worth will be in its flip.

if om or cowbells wants to lay out the case for bump, please do so.

[don_johnson]

bump: i don't know how to explain it to you if you can't see it. the feg discussion occurred yesterday. he was on his way to being lynched when the wagon was derailed and we strung up a townie. now he's dropped out with what looked like general frustration. to me thats null. which means he is still scummy and should still be lynched. calling it an "insta-lynch" implies that its coming out of nowhere and moving at a fast pace. just because we haven't had a ton of discussion on day 2, doesn't change any of the reasons why feg should be lynched. so calling it an "insta-lynch" is a mischaracterization. further, you trying to use that bogus reasoning to not lynch feg is scummy. if you want more discussion, then create more discussion. saying "hey we shouldn't lynch that guy, we should talk more." is basically saying nothing. in other words, it is entirely hypocritical. either get on the wagon, or do something else. but you are not getting on the wagon, and you aren't doing anything else. so honestly, regardless of feg's flip, you start to look scummy. considering the only thing you can add here is "dj must be scum because he wants to lynch fegs." is by and large another shining example of your tiny brain power, or your scumminess. i'll let you choose. for now, lynch feg. if you don't think i should lynch feg, tell me who i should lynch and why. maybe its just a playstyle difference between us, but i don't think "discussion" is the end all be all of mafiascum. sometimes you have to thin the heard. and when you lynch wrong, you don't start from scratch. you look back at what happened, and you try and lynch right. the feg wagon was derailed to a town wagon. so we lynch feg. then we read and discuss more based on the new flips. pretty simple shit. but whatevz.

[don_johnson]

fine.

[don_johnson]

ztife: my day 1 was pretty much sheeping. i would have to read the thread to answer your questions and i just don't have the time atm. my scumread on feg is based on the fact that his wagon was derailed to a town wagon for the most part, and i think his ho-hum "i might replace out" then asking for replacement does nothing to improve anything for the slot. so i will get into this when i can, but i honestly think we just need to lynch feg's slot, get the flip, and then reassess.

[don_johnson]

ok. now i think there is enough info to win this. you guys will have to give me a little time to actually read this thread. nice shot, whoever took it. of course, it could've been me. anyhow, i will likely get a full read in by the weekend. working today and tomorrow, partying tonight, so yeah. by the weekend.

[don_johnson]

Three scum in 13P seems likely assuming the setup is ordinary, which is the most likely scenario.

please expand. are you saying that you are SAS's only partner, and suspect that RCB is an sk because you have been trying to rack your brain and figure out why the mod didn't give you guys another teammate?

ok. one time offer coming your way: admit that you are the only scum left and I promise you that we will lynch RCB next. we will also make you an honorary townie and share the victory with you for being civil about this. this could lbe unprecedented. you'd be up for a scummie for sure. just not sure what we'd name it, but you would save us alot of trouble.

[don_johnson]

RC: you don't read Mr. Bump's recent posts as scumslip? it looks as though he is aware of the number of scum in this game. in my experience, a set-up with an sk usually is offset with a 2 person scum team. Mr. Bump seems to

know

that there are three mafia. just seems odd to me the way he is typing it out. of course, most of my experience is based on 12P games. but whatevz. i still need to read.

i'll

vote: mr. bump

for now.

[don_johnson]

mr. bump: calm down. i am trying to ascertain what you are saying. please expand on why the bacde shot doesn't make sense from a town perspective. you seem to be contradicting yourself. you believe there is three scum but you also believe that RC is sk? your own logic won't let that set-up stand. so which is it?

[don_johnson]

who said anything about ending the day so fast? how does this "crapwagon" give you any clue as to bump's alignment. he has a glaring contradiction in his logic atm, and that needs to be explained. he seems to be buckling under pressure. he may be town, but he acknowledges his connection to flipped scum in his own post. its up to him to divert that pressure. if you have other reasons to think he is town, then please state them, but simply basing your read off of this "crapwagon" doesn't do anything for me. please note, i have yet to actually read this whole thread, so i am only working with what i have atm.

[don_johnson]

RC is either town vig or SK. no way he is scum. so presently, he is confirmed town for me. i know that i am town, so thats 2/3 of the wagon consisting of town for sure. RD is fringe, but he's playing like me. so he could easily be town. mr. bump is just flailing now. whether he's frustrated town or caught scum, time will tell. i haven't had a chance to go over the whole thread yet, so we'll see, but for now his logic makes no sense. he is still contradicting himself.

someone said the "bacde kill makes no sense from a town perspective". so that someone should elaborate on that point. that someone is avoiding that point at present. so that should really be addressed, especially considering that someone seems to be contradicting themselves as to how many scum they think are in this game. ad hopm is not going to help that someones defense.

also:

"you just go "well um i think hes scum lawl"

is a terrible misrep of whats happening. if someone wants to calm down and start talking sense, i am all ears... er, eyes. but whatevz.

[don_johnson]

gee, bump, all i am doing is trying to engage you and you are shutting down. if you can't explain yourself then i'm not moving my vote for now.

[don_johnson]

^^ this guy is town. penguin probably is too. our odds keep getting better.

[don_johnson]

RC: reasons for wanting my lynch?

ztife: like i said, i haven't actually read this thread yet. i am working on it. RC cannot be scum. he is either sk or vig, so atm, we just toss him in the town pile. way easier to sort that out later. his behavior certainly seems more sk, especially if what bump said is true(have to check on that) regarding the bacde kill. however, it is not in towns interest to lynch an sk until we absolutely have to. so leave him in the town pile. maybe even vote on where his shot goes. thats always up for debate, though most vig's won't cooperate, its certainly worthy of discussion. dragon is a good bet for scum. their play seems unoriginal at best. bump's emotional shutdown is also intriguing.

epm: good point about day one scum shot. has anyone been pushing RCscum hard since that night? do you think bump is town? cause at this point, RC might actually be scumhunting? or maybe not i guess. if RC is sk, then that means there is likely only one scum left, which means RC has a better chance of winning by

not

lynching scum. hm. food for thought. i may try reading some of this game today...

[don_johnson]

ok. bottom of page 3 and noticing that red dragon is criticizing the feg wagon with no real punch, and SAS has his vote camped on RD. could be early scum distancing, but something is also going on with ztife. they seem to be picking on the "easy" votes. hard to explain... will keep reading for now.

[don_johnson]

bottom of 4. ztife is pushing an incredibly bad case on RC. Bacde does not look town at all, so bump's theory looks like shit. bump's play looks like scum as well. Yolo dropped a serious vote on confscum SAS and confscumSAS completely ignored it. RC posting actually looks town motivated here as well. he is being criticized for bullshit and seems to be accused of rolling over. not thinking an sk would accept their lynch so easily. but maybe. leaning more town on the vig, which means three scum, so two partners for SAS. still not seeing bump's "the bacde shot is bad" thing... gotta go make breakfast. be back in a few.

[don_johnson]

bottom page 5. red dragon and mr. bumps defense of SAS is noted. Ztife as well but not so much. ztifes opinion seems a bit more genuine. of the three, it is almost obvious at this point that red dragon is scum. so:

unvote, vote red dragon

for now. will keep reading...

[don_johnson]

bottom of page 6. yolo/SAS interactions make me think yolo is town based on SAS flip. is that you epm?

[don_johnson]

bottom page 7. ztife moves into second place. bump back to third. red dragon still my clear leader. bump may be fading fast here too. feg/bacde seems to take over the thread...

[don_johnson]

Red Dragon 250 is so entirely hypocritical. its not even funny. they are probably my most positive read atm. hm...

[don_johnson]

what are the odds that this:

"chillkid (4) -- Bacde, Cheery Dog, Om of the Nom, YOLO" is an all town wagon? sorry Yolo, but this doesn't look good for you. lets see if there is another vote on this one...

[don_johnson]

page 25 day 1 lynch. wow. current read is RC as sk, scum team of Red Dragon and SAS. kind of see bump's point on the bacde kill. need more coffee. nothing yet causing me to change my vote:

"Fegelein (4) -- Bacde, Cheery Dog, don_johnson, Om of the Nom"

this is all town. Red Dragon is the next vote on the wagon. then rides it to the end of the day and is off the dog lynch. hmm...

[don_johnson]

Common scumreads are Don, Evil & Radiant.

somethings are bugging me.

RC: why did you shoot SAS? why did you claim? as vig, you would believe there to be two scum left. no point in claiming at that time. you could still shoot tonight. your benefit as sk is knowing there is most likely one scum left. which you would not want lynched yet. you are puzzling me, but your play looks more and more sk. either way. no noose for you today. please answer the questions.

i am stuck on the idea that RC is sk and that there is only one scum left. which means SAS above reads may have a bit of genuineness to them. which reinforces the idea that cowbell is sk and that SAS avoided his partner entirely. which brings us back to the ztife enigma.

ztife: where you at?

[don_johnson]

unless he is one shot and claiming to draw an nk, but his attitude does not suggest that, nor does his play ring incredibly town. i would like ztife to weigh in, but RD is not doing himself any favors with his hands in the air act if he is town.

[don_johnson]

^^ a) noone is trying to lynch you. not sure where you got that idea. only scum would be trying to lynch you.

b) how am i working against town? pointing out very obvious possibilities? do you think scum don't have brains? if you wanted it kept quiet then you shouldn't have claimed. as it stands, you have apparently shot both nights, so the idea of you being one shot is pretty dumb. so i don't see how that makes me scum in any way. if you must proceed, get your facts straight. penguin stated that obvious possibility of a limited vig before i did. so whatevz.

c) speculation of an sk when someone claims vig and fails to explain themselves is pretty normal. scum will generally push for the sk lynch, because their fearwould be that an sk is bulletproof. and again, noone seems to be pushing for your lynch. you just seem a little paranoid.

again: why did you shoot SAS?

also: why is RedDragon town?

My understanding of the setup is that there is no serial killer, few power roles, and the mafia setup is either 3 mafia or 2 mafia and a traitor. My claiming today is actually quite logical when you consider that. I claimed today because I wanted town to follow my lead lynching scum, and if you really think I'm a serial killer, the extent to which I am working against the mafia, as discussed by you guys above, means that leaving me alive serves your purposes in every way.

you kill. at night. with a gun. noone is going to follow you. thanks for taking out a scum and if you are vig then thats great, but playing a completely shitty game, nightkilling an obvious townie on night one and getting lucky with your second shot does not a leader make. now i'm going to iso you. if you are town, i have no idea why you would be looking at either myself or penguin as likely scum here. you need to explain that a bit more.

[don_johnson]

leaving you alive does not serve mafia's purpose in any way. unless you are a vig and penguin and i are town. if you are an sk, then there is only one scum left, and that scum needs you dead and is probably fearful of being able to kill you at night. i don't agree with your logic here, but whatevz. i am perfectly fine with you staying alive regardless of whether you are vig or sk. threatening me with a nightkill is just plain silly. no jk or doc in their right mind would protect a loose cannon, so if you are a vig, you will most likely be eating mafia lead tonight.

quick question though, cause i am kind of writing off the possibility: is 3 mafia and an sk a realistic set-up? especially considering a single town power role hasn't flipped?

also: is anyone thinking that a mass claim might help sort things out?

[don_johnson]

VOTE: MrBump

I honestly don't think further explanation of this vote is required.

huh. maybe this one does warrant some explanation.

[don_johnson]

bump: where you at?

ztife: give me something.

currently i think i have this game at RD scum and RC sk. i would love some input from others on these things.

[don_johnson]

RC: you haven't said why you think i am scum. so there is nothing for me to argue against. so if you would like to present a case, i will gladly refute it. but saying "dj thinks i am an sk, so he must be scum." is a non-argument.

so.

wait.

RC votes bump. no explanation.

RC freaks out and shows no logic in voting don.

Now... RC wants to lynch reddragon?

meh. like i said. if RC wants to bother explaining anything, i am happy to engage in discussion, but so far RC has offered zero contribution except baseless unexplained votes and omgus reactions to the people who have questioned the validity of his claim.

RC: all you have to do is answer a few simple questions. like why you shot the people you shot. or even why you voted the people you have voted. this emotional flailing is doing nothing for you except making it look like are a caught sk. so whatevz.

ankamius: any other thoughts?

[don_johnson]

wow. RC. your iso is uber short. no mention of qwints. no mention of ankamius until today. why do you think ankamius is town?

[don_johnson]

bump: what 360? are you referring to me changing my opinion on the game? you do realize that i hadn't read the game completely until my most recent slough of posts, right?

[don_johnson]

w.
o.
w.

that was horrible. so many non contributors today. way to go.

[don_johnson]

we also need to look at the possibility of RC being town aligned two shot vig. right? RC made no indication of any suspicions towards ankamius. looks more like a mafia kill to me.

RC: whats up?

also, i support mass claim at this point.

[don_johnson]

looking at wagons, bump and myself have been on every one. ztife on 2/3, epm on none?

ztife,bump,epm << should be one scum in here...

p-edit: penguin. plenty of townies aren't pro-town in their actions. i have done similar things. i would like RC to explain himself, sure, but he isn't scum. if he is not own aligned then he is sk. your first post today seems to make a lot of assumptions as to set-up. if we lynch him and he is vig, then we most suredly lose. if he is sk, then there is most likely only one mafia left, which is good. but the risk/reward doesn't equate, especially if we make this decision before even hearing him out. several players didn't get to participate yesterday. we need their thoughts before we start voting.

[don_johnson]

RC can answer for himself. all i'm saying is that i have seen plenbty of town players do shit that looks anti-town. hammering the top suspect is a necessary evil. quickhammer =/= scum. townies do it all the time. so i'll wait to here from RC.

epm and ztife did not participate much at all yesterday. considering at least one of them is likely scum i think we should be wanting them to participate a bit more. unless you are scum. which is entirely possible at this point. in any case, we should be mass claiming today as we are down to the nitty gritty. i think the order should be:

epm
ztife
bump
penguin
me

or popcorn with epm or ztife going first.

[don_johnson]

of course. would you have him claim first or last? or part of popcorn?

[don_johnson]

good deductions RC. i was thinking the same thing with penguins push to get you lynched. if you are vig, though, that means we have two scum left, so we should finish the mass claim before lynching anyone. you certainly aren't cleared at this point, but this is much more town oriented thought than your play yesterday. i'm fine skipping to ztife.

[don_johnson]

i don't disagree with much of what penguin has said all game, but i don't like to let words get in the way of facts. fact is, townies can play anti-town. townies can quickhammer. townies can make poor cases. townies can threaten people and play "scummy". in a town without a single power role, ain't no way i'm lynching the claimed 2 shot vig. and no, town does not need to lynch the sk by any stretch of the imagination. if RC is sk, then there is most likely only one more scum. AS TOWN YOU NEVER LYNCH AN SK BEFORE SCUM. mafia 101. RC certainly isn't clear. but RC also certainly isn't mafia.

epm: what do you think is going on?

ztife: bumps posting is all AtE. does that make him scum? what is "multi-ball"?

[don_johnson]

so i gues multi-ball= multiple scum teams?

um. the quickhammer was bad and incredibly anti-town. not sure what this "about-face" talk is. ztife claimed vanilla. i am vanilla. therefore RC is the ONLY claimed PR. that and the fact that his claim is two shot add weight to the idea he is actually town. so regardless of his anti-town play(PR's often play anti-town to avoid being nk'd anyway) he is, in fact, most likely town. which means we have two scum left. the claimed vig is the closest thing to a confirmed townie that we have, so lynching him is great idea for scum team, but in reality scum just needs to get a townie lynched to most likely win this game as we are then in a mylo situation.

so no, penguin may be town after all, because this power tandem of ztife/bump is a bit ridiculous.

my interpretation of penguins posting is what it is, if you'll notice i placed bump in the middle of the list. claiming first is way easier for scum. so not sure what thats all about. as town, i do not fear an sk.

zife: you mentioned some scenarios. please list them. if i am wrong i am more than happy to listen, but i just don't think town is going to be all vanilla here. and someon brought up a good point about the number of kills suggesting this is not "multi-ball". so yeah.

[don_johnson]

i have never played in an all vanilla set-up that didn't contain some sort of special game mechanic. i am not "buddying" RC, i am just having trouble seeing ANY scenario where the only claimed town pr is actually scum and town is powerless. the numbers don't really make sense to me. i need to read through what ztife has posted on this page and get back to this later. the simple answer imo, is that we have 3 scum against a town with 2-shot vig as only power. against a weak scum team i guess that would be OK. even still. this is wierd. i am curious to sift through ztifes posts here and figure this out. RC's vote switch is a bit non-sensical. but whatevz. i will try and deal more with this tomorrow. you guys all seem to be in a tizzy. i see no reason to rush at this point. we are down to 6 players, no? only one dead scum, so... hm.

ztife: i will look closer at your posts.

[don_johnson]

who is the traitor?

vote: ztife

[don_johnson]

Set-up speculation talk is mostly unhelpful IMHO, because even if we can generate the "most balance" possible setup, there still could be a chance that our setup is "unbalanced".

Discussing possibilities is more practical and we cover more room for error in scum hunting.

Regarding scenarios,

the key is RC's actual reason for claiming, and his timing for the claim

.

As Vig

, why would he want to claim start of D3? When he was in no danger of being lynched, no real reason to reveal his role and limits, no reason to give scum any more information other than slips. There was 8 players left with 1 scum date, town was in no danger of losing nor any visible disadvantage. And his reason is because he wants to draw the NK on him? He could have done this after a mass claim to help draw kills from other town PRs, more so since he has no lynch left. By claiming vig and having no shots left he obviously could only end up confusing town more if he survived N3. Vig? Not impossible, but not all that likely.

i disagree. RC claim was before a lylo situation. granted you can make an argument for it both ways, but by pretending to be full vig instead of two shot was a nice way to draw the nk. still, if he is sk, there is no reason to lynch him at this point in time if we believe there may be two scum left. the number of kills also suggests he is who he says he is. unless scum wants to claim that they tried to shoot him and failed. there is no claimed protective role.

I would also stress that it is extremely important to note that RC's timing to claim is the major reason why he is unlikely to be vig. There are no real benefits to town, and possibly only detrimental effects. Also, DJ's point about town making scummy plays is WIFOM, townies can play anti-town. Scums can play town-like. It doesn't change anything, and

the focus is not on that but on his motivations to claim at start of D3

(which I have stressed repeatedly)

you are making my point exactly. your initial big reason for pushing a lynch on RC is because of his "scum-play." now you are adding "timing of his claim". the "scum play" is wifom. vig has every reason to act scummy and avoid being nk'd. timing of his claim just doesn't stand up to me. and AGAIN, if he is sk, as a townie, i would be more inclined to lynch scum because scum is part of a team and we have no idea how large that team may be. SK = 1. easily dealt with later on. remaining scum = 1 OR 2. meaning if we don't lynch SCUM today then we quite possibly lose.

As SK

with bulletproof, fake claiming vig gives an advantage because scums cannot lynch him, and scums cannot reveal themselves to expose him (even if they did town might not buy it). It is also possible that he has another shot (he has only shot once so far, or has more than 2 shots). Now that we have 6 players, likely roles are
SK, 2x SCUM, 3x TOWN
1. Town lynches scum, scum NK town, D4 starts with SK, SCUM, TOWN, TOWN. If he convinces town to lynch scum he will NK town and win the game.

town still has a chance. this is fear mongering.

2. Town lynches town, scum NK town, D4 starts with SK, SCUM, SCUM, TOWN. In this scenario town will lose no matter what, SK might have a chance to win if he can get a NL.
If RC is indeed SK and we dont lynch him today

TOWN LOSES

whether the winner is scum or SK.

sk is dead in the water. lynching town today is not an option.

As scum

, this means that it is most likely a multi-ball and the remaining players are
3x scum, 3x town.
Possible D4 scenarios
3. Town lynches town, scums NK at least 1 town.

TOWN LOSES.

4. Town lynches town, scums CROSS KILL (based on probability ONLY this has a 17% chance of occurring), D5 starts with SCUM, TOWN, TOWN. Town has 33% chance of lynching scum, probability wise the total chance of winning in this scenario is 5.5% (of course, this is just probability only)

TOWN PROBABLY LOSES

5. Town lynches scum on SAS team, D5 will start with 2 scums and 2 town.
6. Town lynches scum on the other scum team, scums cross kill,

TOWN WINS.

7. Town lynches scum on the other scum team, NK 1 scum 1 town, D5 starts with SCUM, TOWN TOWN. As per scenario 2 town has 33% probability of winning.

TOWN PROBABLY LOSES

two nights with only one kill does not suggest multi-ball. especially with an all vanilla town. this is the least likely scenario imo. town has already lost. so i will not explore this option.

As you can see, depending on the setup and NK the any chance for town to win at all lies in lynching RC today.

^^ HORSESHIT. lynching RC guarantees town a loss in EVERY SCENARIO.

And even if you are scum (1 team or multi-ball SAS team) you will want RC lynched.

^^ my point exactly. this is why penguin, bump, and you are all scummy imo. penguin is the most level headed atm, and seems to be the most willing to listen to reason. his was the least violent push against RC. therefore scum is in you and/or bump imo.

The only reason you would not want RC to be lynched today is because you are his scum buddy, or you believe he's truly vig.

again. not enough kills to suggest multi-ball. all vanilla town. RC is either vig or sk.

Also my personal opinions are that this is most likely a multi-ball, and we probably have a PR of doc. And if you are a doc its the best interest for town that you do not claim today and even claim at all. Also, why lynching RC is hard in the case of multi-ball its because it requires all 3 town to lynch RC, as well as the scum on SAS's team. Also, there's the problem of EPM notactively participating in the game at all, and he's either a disinterested town who would probably throw his votes around, or a hard to read scum. Either possibilities is just bad for us. RC just has to be lynched today.

again. not enough kills to suggest multi-ball.

ztife: if you believe multi-ball, who are your three townies?

[don_johnson]

ztife: you are basically saying that our only hope is to lynch RC, pray that he is mafia and not sk or vig, then hope that scum crosskill. do i have that right? it seems like an awfully faith based shot in the dark type way to play this game. can you please also explain again why you think this game is multi-ball? is your only hope that a town doc fakeclaimed vanilla and has made two successful protects?

unvote

i will wait to hear from you.

bump: do you agree with this analysis, that we are in a multi-ball set up, we have a doc in hiding and that our only hope is to lynch RC? and that hope depends ENTIRELY on a scum crosskill? wait, i guess one scum could misfire giving town a lylo against final scum. in that case, though, is that really even possible? IF this is multi-ball, don't you think scum would be completely aware of each other by now?

epm: turn it on, bro.

penguin: same questions above.

[don_johnson]

EPM joins in with significant respnonses to everything happening or gets my vote. he is posting elsewhere on site.

this is ridiculous.

[don_johnson]

ztife. your post is full of holes. you don't even seem to acknowledge what i am saying. you just keep ratling on about "dj thinks RC is vig." that is entirely untrue.

dj thinks RC is vig OR sk. dj just doesn't believe that RC is scum. RC as scum makes no sense. because not only would RC scum have to have an additional kill of some sort, but RC scum would have to be bulletproof(otherwise his claim would be a death sentence or hugely ballsy gambit). so how does that balance out with an ALL VANILLA town and another scum team? it just doesn't. you also seem to be comparing something RC said on day 1 with his recent case against you. that's apples and oranges.

vote: ztife

you are putting up a good fight, criticizing me for posting walls of text while you do the exact same thing. but your math doesn't add up. if scum/vig had a 1%chance of hitting the same target on night 1, then the chance of them hitting the same target on 2 nights is even lower. where do you even get your math?

fact is this: we cannot afford a mislynch. lynching scum leaves us with a better chance of winning than lynching an sk.

so i am not voting the guy who is EITHER vig or sk. regardless of his play. i would rather lynch the guy who is asking town to PRAY that a pr is hidden AND that we are in a multi-ball set-up with powered scum and that those two scum teams shared targets two nights out of three OR our doc had two successful protects, but is unwilling to claim.

[don_johnson]

has anyone bothered to look through SAS to see where he might be connected? that is certainly one thing missing from ztife's posts atm.

[don_johnson]

Based even just on the difference between proclaimed intent (draw the NK for looking like a claimed townie) and action (end the day phase with the scummiest post possible) I think RC is an SK. I think we may be sunk if we NK there. On the plus side we're very likely to hit anti-town in RC, but if there are two Mafia left we lose.
At this point with one or two Mafia left, we have to consider letting it get to a four or three player endgame scenario. Make scum play optimally. We can help by aiming to lynch Mafia. If we lynch right, we could be down to one scum total tomorrow.

you do realize that THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY, right? there is a CHANCE that RC is vig. if he is not vig, then he is sk, so we need to lynch scum, not sk. its like noones listening. but whatevz. this:

Also tell me, if i'm scum why would I push so hard for RC to be lynched today?

is downright funny. why would ztifescum be trying to lynch the sk? bevause scumztifeloses if he doesn't. because most likely set-up is 2 scum/sk/vanilla town based on all the evidence(if RC is in fact sk). which means RC is either bp and scumztife knows this, or it means that scumztife isn't dumb and knows that if he lets the sk get to night phase, the sk is going to shoot his ass.

in this scenario, if there is an sk, it is in scums interest to lynch that sk. so scumdj makes absolutely no sense outside of an RC/dj scumteam. do you really think that dj and RC are scum together and that SAS has one partner left out there and that two out of three nights the scum teams killed the same player? is that the far fetched shit you believe?

or do you believe that ztife is lonely because his partner got lynched, and now he realizes there is another killer on the loose who, though he has claimed to be a town vig, is playing more to an sk?

i am not taking a stand for RC town. i am just arguing that he is the least optimal lynch for town today.

ztife is arguing that RC is THE optimal lynch for town today.

so bump and penguin: why on earth do you think RC is sk and dj is scum? cause that makes no sense? unless one of you is scum with ztife and SAS. i guess a 3p scum team wouldn't be unheard of if they are all vanilla against a vanilla town? or a town with only one power role...

either way you slice this. it should be pretty obvious that i am not scum, so i really don't understand the case against me when it is ztife who is arguing full steam ahead for the LEAST OPTIMAL lynch of the day under the current circumstances and given everything that you guys have said.

so I think that the setup is just simply

RC is the SK

and DJ is the last scum trying not to get shot and we've been way overthinking this.

^^ keep using logic and you shouldn't come to "dj is scum" as a conclusion here.

I think RC is an SK.

^^ so how do you get djscum again?

seriously guys. if any of you are town, use your brains. no way in seven hells does scumdj try and prevent the lynch of an sk at this point in the game. NO FUCKING WAY. optimal scum play here is to lynch the sk.

[don_johnson]

you can be stupid if you want. i'm not lynching the sk/claimed vig. by leaving him alive, even if i can shoot him, he can still shoot me. duh. thats why optimal scumplay is to lynch sk now. whatevz. ztife is the obvious scum here with bnump not far behind.

[don_johnson]

dj is not getting lynched. dj simply cannot logically be scum based on his actions. if dj gets lynched it is because town has already lost in some bizarre multi-ball set-up.

lynch ztife. he is obvscum.

[don_johnson]

Do you agree that there is a 1% (or extremely low) chance that RC is vig due to N1 result?
Do you agree that if RC is SK, chance for town to win is also extremely low if he is allowed to live?

Please answer this DJ. After all that shit you posted and trying to avoid direct questions, please tell me how you do not agree that RC is likely SK and we are likely to lose if we don't lynch him.

Also, im up for a DJ lynch as well since im sure he's scum. If that's the case we better hope this is 2scum + SK game because anymore scums than that would be just incredibly unbalanced.

no. i am not going to buy into a gamblers fallacy based on the night one results. especially since all of your other theories don't seem to agree with it. i agree that there is a chance that RC is ivg or that he is sk. thats as much speculation on that matter that i care to offer. your numbers are based on random killing. though i agree that you could look at the information and interpret it that way, i simply do not agree. based on the current circumstances of the game, i am leaning sk, but that is neither here nor there because we have to lynch scum today.

on the second question, imo we are more likely to lose if we lynch an sk in this sutuation. sk does not have teammates. scum does. we have no idea how many scum are left. if 2. then its a loss. if RC is vig(which he very well may be) then we lose. if he is limited shot sk, then even better if we lynch scum.

now you say anything more than 2 scums + sk would be unbalanced. so lets look at it from that perspective:

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE FINAL SCUM WANT TO LEAVE THE SK ALIVE? if you are town, gently pull your head out of your ass. kthnxbye.

why would ztifescum be trying to lynch the sk? bevause scumztifeloses if he doesn't.

Willing to accept this as a slip. His entire case is "SCUM MUST LYNCH SK SO EVERYBODY WHO THINKS THE OPPOSITE IS SCUM". DJ, you are literally calling

every single player in the game that doesn't agree with you scum

. Does that not come across as buddying, tunnel visioning or scummy?

uh, what? so because i disagree with all of your assanine theories on why we would lynch sk over scum, that makes me scum? not following you. so if i vote RC, that would make me town? this is a smoke screen. i have my own opinion here and i think it is more logical than yours.

Optimal scum play is to not lynch the SK and not get shot and THEN lynch the SK tomorrow or, even better, shoot the SK tonight assuming they're not bulletproof (I reckon scum would know by now if he was).

number of kills would suggest that sk is bulletproof in some manner. also, why would scum leave the sk alive again? so the sk can shoot the scum and cause the scum to lose, or better yet, so scum and sk can crosskill handing town the victory? you make NO SENSE.

Optimal play I reckon would be trying to buddy the SK so the SK wants them around for tomorrow. Optimal play would be using more than one strain of logic and accepting that this is a game of opinions meshing with facts, not your own exact ideals.

^^ you are an idiot. if i was the last scum, or if i was scum with one of you, i would be lynching the FUCK out of RC. thats the optimal scum play.

DJ's getting flustered without a single vote on him, oh my. Now y'see, your "CANNOT POSSIBLY BE SCUM LOGICALLY" is based on an opinion and ideal that YOU have. Can you accept that other players in this God damned game do not think the same exact way as you? Your opinions are all from your own point of view. If your only case for being Town is "well the thing you all find scummy is ACTUALLY good", then that's not good.

your opinion from your point of view makes no sense. and whats more, the more we talk about this, the more you all start to agree with me. so keep going.

I'm pretty sure all of the Town are arriving at the same conclusion as me. If we're wrong and Ztife is scum or something, then I'll give you all a pat and the back and a drink along with the mod despite your incredibly questionable play, but I'm around 85% sure that DJ is the scum and RC is the SK. Also, I've heard of lots of SKs with limited shots, but I've played more off-site recently than on- so I'm not sure that applies here. The only hole in my theory I can't think of is where all RC's kills went, which leads me to believe he DOES have limited shots or Mafia cross shot N1 and tried to shoot him N3.

see. you are all making excuses to try and explain away the number of night kills. and you are all simply offering up ideas that fit your own opinions of set-up. but you ignore the crux of the argument. which is: what is optimal town play today? answer: lynch scum, not sk. here:

Mafia cross shot N1 and tried to shoot him N3

Mafia cross shot N1 and tried to shoot him N3

Mafia cross shot N1 and tried to shoot him N3

on other words: you believe sk is bulletproof. which makes this:

Optimal scum play is to not lynch the SK and not get shot and THEN lynch the SK tomorrow or, even better, shoot the SK tonight assuming they're not bulletproof (I reckon scum would know by now if he was).

borderline retarded. optimal scum play to deal with a bp sk is to lynch them, not give them a chance to take you out, and certainly not to try and shoot them. LOL!

ztife: what do you think of bump at this time?

[don_johnson]

on the second question, imo we are more likely to lose if we lynch an sk in this sutuation. sk does not have teammates. scum does. we have no idea how many scum are left. if 2. then its a loss. if RC is vig(which he very well may be) then we lose. if he is limited shot sk, then even better if we lynch scum.

The setup is very unlikely to be 3 Scum 1 SK full VT. We've been over this.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE FINAL SCUM WANT TO LEAVE THE SK ALIVE? if you are town, gently pull your head out of your ass. kthnxbye.

Because he might be Bulletproof which explains the lack of two shots on some days?

so you think the scum is bulletproof? not the sk? this is a serious question because i am having trouble understanding what you are saying here.

uh, what? so because i disagree with all of your assanine theories on why we would lynch sk over scum, that makes me scum? not following you. so if i vote RC, that would make me town? this is a smoke screen. i have my own opinion here and i think it is more logical than yours.

No, you're ignoring me again. There are six players in the game. Three of them are calling you scum and RC SK. You are calling every single one of the people that disagree with you scum. Those are just simple facts; you have said we are your scumreads and you have ignored EPM who's said nothing on that matter. You don't have to lynch RC to not be scum, but you don't have to act like a little child when people don't agree with you.

uh, no. i am calling ztife scum. you and penguin just aren't making much sense. so what would you like me to do? i believe lynching scum is necessary today. i think ztife is most likely scum due to his HUGE push to try and get the "sk" lynched over scum and his logical fallacy(gamblers) on why he believes that RC lynch is best for town. his hypocritical walls of text as well.

number of kills would suggest that sk is bulletproof in some manner.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE FINAL SCUM WANT TO LEAVE THE SK ALIVE? if you are town, gently pull your head out of your ass. kthnxbye.

Yeah, you're Scum. Highly possible SK is full bulletproof and Scum don't want to take the chance he is.

^^this is exactly what i have been saying regarding the possible sk. in other words your logic is this:

RC=sk
scum optimal play= don't take chance scum is bulletproof
so scum= someone trying to lynch the sk.
dj= someone NOT trying to lynch the sk
so scum =/= dj

but instead of using logic to come to that conclusion, you follow the math and then come to the least probable conslusion that scum = dj. please explain this again.

If you think I agree with you, then you're just simply not reading my posts.

actually, i am. you think RC is a bulletproof sk and have just admitted that scum probably shouldn't take the chance of leaving him alive. which is EXACTLY what i have been saying from the start of the day(with the exception that i am leaving the option open for RC to actually be a vig.)

That's my only possible explanation for your play yesterday and today. What about my "slip" from yesterday you conviently forgot about? Oh yeah, scum don't have reads, they just have people they want to mislynch. You probably forgot it already.

feel free to remind me. you are certainly acting like scum right now. you are ignoring your own logic in order to push a lynch on a townie.

Calling me an idiot and borderline retarded for having different thoughts is a really mature way of making me agree with you. Yeah, no. You just get angrier and angrier and more toxic to play with every post.

sorry if i offend, but you are either stupid or scum. look at the above equations. its pretty simple math.

It all comes down to what you think optimal scum play in this situation is and I think differently, so you blow the fuck up at me. Yeah cool, go away. You're WIFOM-y and you're just making this game a chore to play because I know I have to come back to this drivel of constant shit every time you post.

please state in one sentence what you think "optimal scum play" is for today. do not include who you think is scum, don't let your opinion get in the way. just simply state, logically, in a set-up that may be 2scum-bpsk-all vanillatown or 3 scum-bpsk-allvanillatown or 3scum-twoshotvig-allvanillatown or 2-scum-2scum-allvanillatown(withmaybe avig) what the optimal scum play is. thanks. remember that you just said:

Highly possible SK is full bulletproof and Scum don't want to take the chance he is

It's also worth noting that DJ pretty much exclusively refers to RC as "SK" now because he's the last Scum and knows that he must be an SK in order to balance the setup.

incorrect, but whatevz. you three seem to be pushing that idea. and if i was the last scum, i would be pushing the sklynch. which i am not. according to your own logic.

penguin: what "explanations" am i ignoring? in discussing this with ztife and bump, none of their explanations make any sense. please give me an explanation that isn't far fetched that makes "lynching the sk/vig" a better move than lynching scum.

Secret Agent Sloth was scum-reading RC, DJ, and evilpacman18. Based on that, scum may have shot RC night one and failed, hence the lynch try; I suspect DJ or evilpacman18 is a partner.

^^ this is a sensible thought. but how do you explain ztife and bump being gung ho about lynching RC? i guess epm is under the radar enough to not care who gets lynched here. but honestly, penguin, if you think i'm scum, think long and hard about what i would be doing today. everything in this game is WIFOM, but paranoia will destroy you. you need to use common sense. does your common sense say that scumdj would protect the sk in this situation(if sk is bulletproof, scum probably already know this due to the lack of nightkills). or would dj have lynched the sk/vig(possibly ftw if dj has a partner other than rc), and killed a townie at night bringing it to a lylo/mylo in the morning? what makes the most sense?

[don_johnson]

sk i smost probable scenario

bpsk is very probable

Single scum at this point needs to avoid being lynched or drawing the SK shot tonight.

so lynching the sk is the OPTIMAL scum play. can we agree on that?

You acting like you don't think RC is definitely the SK makes it less likely RC would shoot you. A two-man left team is in better position if they cozy up to the SK.

so you think there are two scum left AND a bulletproof sk? you do realize that a 2p scum team wins right now with an sk lynch, right? so again, even in this scenario:

lynching the sk is the OPTIMAL play.

i really can't argue this point any more. if you want to defy logic and lynch me, then do it. you seem to be town in the fact that you are accepting the logic. whereas ztife and bump are arguing against it with no success.

epm: put in more effort please. if you are town, you should be able to understand what is going on.

as to offering RC the "vig" option, i see no reason to condemn him today because i am not lynching him regardless. he can be dealt with later. town needs to hit scum in order to stay alive imo. if there is only one scum left out there, then yes, sk would lynch wouldn't be terrible, but thats a big IF, and you have to weigh it against the "if" of RC possibly being who he says he is and his lynch being a town loss straight up. i have seen some terrible vig's in my day, and i have wrongly accused vig's in the past of being sk and then lynching them and playing right into scums hands. so whatevz.

[don_johnson]

ztie: i flat out disagree. you keep reframing the same argument here.

Possible setups with anti-town factios: (keep in mind SAS is dead)
SK + 2x scum.
If its this setup lynching SK or scum does not make a difference.

no. it doesn't. but we don't know that there is one scum. we also don't know if sk is actually vig. so i agree that IF THIS IS the set-up, then it doesn't matter, but the nature of the unknowns here make me think it is better to lynch scum.

SK + 3 scum.
This means that its now 3 townies and 3 anti-factions, chances of town winning is just fucking slim. Lynch SK and scum wins. Lynch scum and SK wins.

this is incorrect. HUGELY incorrect. if we lynch scum, sk and final scum can crosskill, or one kill can fail(due to possible bp/doc protect) and town can still end up in a 3p or 4p lylo/mylo with chance to win. chances are waaayyyyy better for town in this instance if we lynch scum. game is fucking over if we lynch sk. this a main crux of my argument that you seem to continually gloss over.

2scums + 2scums (multi-ball)
This is also a likely scenario. This is the best scenario for town because it will mean a cross kill is possible and its in town's interest that there is at least a cross kill at night. Assuming there is no doc, if we lynch RC (scum) in this case, scums would have to choose between letting the other scum team win or letting town win.

RC is most likely not SAS' partner, so yes, in this instance RC would be a good lynch. only other chance for town comeback would be if we find and lynch RC's partner. imo, this is the least likely scenario, and i disagree when you say it is the best scenario for town. i think it is the worst. number of kills does not suggest multi-ball. number of kills suggests that RC is working alone and is either vig or sk, so this scenario to me seems least likely.

honestly, if someone had claimed doc with believable targets, the multi-ball argument might make more sense. but its too late now. there is no doc. we are an all vanilla town and we need to figure out what the fuck is going on.

ztife: who would be your second choice for lynch today.

[don_johnson]

penguin: thanks for paying attention. i am starting to lean the same direction thinking that bump is just angry with me and will never see eye to eye.

i could answer RC's question for him, but i won't. i think the real question now is how many scum are left. right now i am thinking ztife>epm, but its not out of the possibility for them both to be scum? i don't know. i'm not lynching you or RC today. thats for sure. so if you are scum, congrats, but i will take you as town. your thought process is genuine and you seem to be applying common sense which is good.

i say we take our chances with a ztife lynch. he's given me no reason to think that his lynch would end the game as a loss for town. he seems to be pretty certain that RC is a bpsk and his continued push to lynch RC just seems like, i don't know. you get my drift. i'm not letting go of the outside chance we have a townvig. zero pr for town just seems wierd if anti-town factions have multiple killing roles.

RC: how do you feel about epm?

ztife: how do you feel about epm?

bump: how do you feel about epm?

[don_johnson]

Possible setups with anti-town factios: (keep in mind SAS is dead)
SK + 2x scum.
If its this setup lynching SK or scum does not make a difference.

no. it doesn't. but we don't know that there is one scum. we also don't know if sk is actually vig. so i agree that IF THIS IS the set-up, then it doesn't matter, but the nature of the unknowns here make me think it is better to lynch scum.

There's no unknown. W're discussing all the possibilities so we are covering everything. Over here it makes no difference, and we're more sure of who SK is anyway.

there is an unknown. HOW MANY SCUM ARE LEFT. RC MAY BE VIG considering we have no town power. scum team is either 2 or 3p. no guarantee of 2p. which makes scum lynch> sk lynch. how can you not see that?

Are you for real? If this setup is true SK is not going to NK scum N4, because 3 flipped scum means D5 SK is the one who gets lynched.

huh? this makes no sense. there is only one flipped scum. you do realize that if the above happens, then town wins, right? isn't that what we are trying to do? you also realize that in the above case, if we lynch the sk today, town loses, right? this reasoning makes zero sense. if scumteam is 3p and we lynch RC as sk, then WE LOSE. So lynching him is not an option at this time.

It is in the best interest of both faction not to cross kill should they want to win. Not to mention the possibility of this setup being so inbalanced is probably not happening and also whether the SK has BP.

and? i'd rather take my chances at night than LOSE BY LYNCHING THE SK NOW.

This is the main crux of your argument so far is

RC is vig,
which is low chance because it means that vig and scum NKed same target N1.

this reasoning applies to any killing role you give RC. in other words, the only way this reasoning does not apply is if scum is 3p with an extra kill and there is no sk. i.e. the chances of vig and scum choosing the same target on night one are the same as the chances of scumteam and sk choosing the same target, slightly lower than two scum teams choosing the same target. this is not the main crux of my argument. in my argument it is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT whether RC is sk or vig.

and RC is SK, with these conditions

1. SK has no BP (used up or has none)
2. Sk has no shots left (or basically, its a useless SK with no abilities trying to win a game in this cold hard world)
3. Its a 3-scum 1-sk setup

number of shots sk has left is irrelevant, whether or not sk is bp is irrelevant. the only players who should be worried about how many shots an sk has and whether or not he is bp is... wait for it... SCUM.

These conditions have to be true for SK to not be lynched today, and you continuously argue your point over these improbable odds where it possibility of it happening is low.

please clearly state what you think the most probable set-up is.

Fact is, we have 6 townies dead, and the game now is currently AT BEST 4 townie/2anti-town. It could be worse. We have found the SK/possibly scum and if we want to let RC survive another day, im not sure wtf town is thinking if we want to win.

which is more likely: RC as sk, or RC as scum?

Its gonna take all 4 town to have to lynch the SK, and 3town 1 scum to lynch if its a multi-ball. All dj/rc have to do is to prevent being lynched and either of them will win the game.

^^ simply false. you seem to be implying that dj/RC are a scumteam. if thats the case, then who is SAS' partner? because if RC/dj is a scumteam they would need to lynch SAS' partner in order to win. so it seems the only player here who should really be afraid of that would be SAS' actual partner.

and you, sir, seem to be shaking in your boots.

if its multi-ball, how do you explain the lack of kills? you think it extremely unlikely that a vig/sk targeted the same player as scum on night one. but you think it is more likely that two scum teams chose the same target on 2 out of 3 nights? dude, your math just don't add up.

p-edit: ok, now i can see where ztife is clearly coming from. he has resorted to his only defense, which is that we are in multi-ball. so this:

if its multi-ball, how do you explain the lack of kills? you think it extremely unlikely that a vig/sk targeted the same player as scum on night one. but you think it is more likely that two scum teams chose the same target on 2 out of 3 nights? dude, your math just don't add up.

should be addressed forthwith.

[don_johnson]

btw, please explain how RC's claim makes any sense in multi-ball? as part of a 2p scumteam, all he would be doing is exposing himself to the other anti-town faction, which he would know is a scum team and not an sk. it would be a hugely ballsy gambit as scum. hence it is more likely to come from an sk.

[don_johnson]

It would seem to be weird as well that SK would wanna target scum. SAS NK remains to be explained by our resident SK.

^^ shooting yourself in the foot here. this actually points more towards RC sk than RCscum. if you think it would be wierd that an sk would target scum, and the alleged sk can't explain why he shot the guy, then it would imply that the alleged sk didn't mean to shoot scum. but whatevz. your obvscum at this point imo.

penguin: you gotta get bump on board. he won't listen to me as far as i can tell.

[don_johnson]

i'll try to avoid the wall of text.

where is the doc/rb? your entire theory depends on a power role that didn't claim in a popcorn.

RC can be likely vig simply based on the fact that he is the only player to claim town power. i am not familiar with a 2 scum team all vanilla town set-up.

if someone wants to claim doc/rb. they should do it. but noone has and noone has even alluded to the fact that they might.

in my opinion, we have more oppurtunities to lose by lynching RC, than we do by lynching elswehere. only way we have a chance to win is if RC is on a scumteam. but neither the kills nor his play indicate that to be the case. your entire theory is based on a pr still being hidden in the town.

why would the pr not have claimed?

Not all kill roles are the same because of limited shots and intent. Vig RC won't lie. SK RC can lie, scum RC can lie. SK saving shots, scums not shooting, RB/doc is more likely than hitting shooting the same target.
Therefore, VIG RC is unlikely. Therefore, MULTI-BALL is alot more likely.

why would scum not shoot? and how does multi-ball become a lot more likely? because you say so? thats not how it works. we have two nights with only one kill. in fact, RC having limited shots as a lone vig/sk makes the most sense given the evidence. lets look:

2/3 nights with one kill.
no claimed doc/rb.

u r high.

What I think happen?
N1 RC scum team got his shot blocked. Therefore they know there's a doc or RB.

no evidence to support this.

D3 RC claims vig. This could give him a possible doc protection on N3.

no evidence to support this. noone in their right mind protects a vig. there is no claimed doc. his hammer was scummy.

Either he got protected, or they didn't shoot to gambit D4.

^^ either/or fallacy. he could also be bp sk. or they could have shot for his partner not knowing if he was scum/sk. or they could have reduced the number of townies and gone for his lynch. there are more than two possibilities.

You don't want to lynch VIG RC (somehow somewhere this still seems likely to u)

evidence actually supports this. his play not necessarily. but the number of kills and lack of town power certainly does.

You don't want to lynch SK RC (because you believe somehow, it can be 3scums + SK)

yes. there is that chance.

By willing to risk lynching another scum,
You are willing to take the chance of multi-ball, where we will instantly loose if we hit SAS partner (2 scums, 3 towns for tonight)

yes. i do not believe RC to be scum. and i am not scum with RC. so i am more than willing to take that chance. if you were town you would open your mind to that possibility.

You are willing to believe in cross-killing and/or that our SK has no abilities left.

no. i am open to those possibilities, but i don't believe that is necessary for us to win. fact is, you may be SAS only partner. 2p scum/limited ability sk/all vanilla town isn't out of the question. we may just need to lynch you and then the impotent sk. who knows? i just think that given the evidence(number of kills, claims, etc.) that lynching you is the correct move today. only scum should be worried about an sk atm. theres 6p left. sk has to be last man standing in order to win. not gonna happen overnight if we lynch scum today.

[don_johnson]

i'm not wall posting with you anymore ztife. i can't imagine a scenario where you are town and arguing this insanely against common sense and hard evidence.

i think 2p scum/sk/vanillatown is more likely than multi-ball.

i think 3pscum/townwithvig is more likely than multi-ball.

based on those two scenarios, there is no need to lynch RC today. he can be dealt with tomorrow. only player who really needs him lynched today would be a scum player. so whatevz.

enjoy your noose.

penguin: i am starting to think it is more likely 3pscum vs town with vig. lets make sure to take a hard look at everyone tomorrow. i say this because you are the only player here i trust as absolute town and one of us may not be here in the morning. but who knows. i'm not sure what more we can get out of this day, but if we want more discussion i am fine with that. personally i am ready to lynch ztife. i can't see him flipping town after this nonsensical ranting.

[don_johnson]

whatevz. most likely scenario we all seem to agree on is 1 scum, 1 sk, 4 townies. if that is the case, then ztife is the scum. because ONLY the scum needs the sk lynched TODAY. i don't get how you don't see that. the possibility that there could be two scum left is why you lynch scum over sk in this situation, with the possibility of sk being vig adding to the weight of that decision.

its pretty standard shit. you NEVER lynch the sk in this situation. you go for scum, especially when they make themselves obvious by trying to twist logic and convince everyone that the sk NEEDS to be lynched. only scum NEEDS that.

no, RC did not unvote, which certainly leans towards sk play. but it is irrelevant as i have been saying all along. we need scum here and ztife is a really good bet. but whatevz.

[don_johnson]

bump, if theres a mafia doc and an sk(or multi-ball), how do you explain a powerless town? that don't make sense.

[don_johnson]

Why would I need SK dead today if i'm scum? What difference would it make if its tomorrow? You keep saying this, but I see no justification.

you aren't this dense. sk could shoot you overnight, eliminating your chance to win. sk may be bp, which you may already know or think, making killing him at night impossible. so yeah. plenty of motive for scum to want and/or need sk dead. i'm done explaining this.

Also, you're still on the far fetched idea that it could be 3scum+sk, and vig to justify that a scum me would need SK dead today because simply you have no other explaination.

a) neither scenario is far fetched. b) 2p scum + sk fits this scenario just fine as well. i am not on any single idea. i am taking all of the possibilities and making the best judgement call.

In which in any other case, it would be safer and make alot more sense to lynch RC whom we are sure off, and check for the flip, rather than "obvscum ztife".

nope. we are not "sure of" anything except RC has nk powers of some sort and that the evidence suggests those powers are limited or that he is bp or both. considering that there are no claimed town pr's, that increases the odds of him actually being vig. so vig or sk is way more likely than scumRC given the evidence. and there is no reason to lynch RC when we have caught scum. caught scum is the guy who is desperately trying anything he can to get RC lynched.

But fact is we need RC dead today to have an idea what this setup could be.

most likely, given the evidence, lynching RC is death knell for town.

Someone who spends time reading comments about himself rather than seeing what is needed to be done for him just deserves to lose. #951 1 sentence reply after our whole exchange just ticks me off. After half the town is dead and only one anti-town flipped and you think we have the luxury to take chances and "scum hunt, we can always lynch the obvscum/anti-town another day" then something must be seriously wrong with your logic, or you're just anti-town.

i have been in this situation countless times. i have lynched vig's and lost as town, i have played as scum in this position and done exactly what you are doing which is to try and convince town that the sk needs to be lynched. i have played as sk and claimed vig. i have been lynched as vig. in all my years of experience, lynching the sk/vig in this scenario is the wrong move.

Also, I've overlooked that SAS's partner AKA EPM can possibly want to lynch a townie at this point. One of you will be NKed by him tonight, and if you cross-fire EPM then town wins. Otherwise it turns into a 3 way fight D5 which possibly ends in a draw.

i'm not scum, so whatevz. i'm not so sure epm is scum at this point either. i agree, that if you are town, then this is the wrong move. but i think you are scum.

If he's town and he decides to OMGUS instead of looking at the mountain of exchanges we have, then we deserves to lose. He practically spent about 20minutes in this entire game anyways.

wonderful AtE. wonderful. your feigned concern about the fate of our town is moving.

[don_johnson]

bump: you are ignoring the possibiliity that RC is vig. you are also ignoring the possibility 3pscum + sk.

i read your post. i just disagree. thats why we are going in circles. you need to let it go. if we lynch RC and he is vig, then its a town loss. if we lynch RC and he flips sk then it is either a town loss to 3p scum, or surviving 2pscum kills overnight and we go to 4p mylo. in that instance i agree with you that it

may

be easier to find scum. but what if the 4p left are you, me, ztife, and epm? thats basically where we have to choose from today. noone but ztife is buying into the multi-ball theory as far as i can tell. ztife is just using fear mongering to push the RC lynch. the only way the RC lynch helps us is if he flips scum, which is the least likely ting for him to flip given the evidence. but whatevz. let's try again:

do you think penguin is town?

would you consider a no lynch today?

why do you think ztife is town? let's start there because we are not agreeing on the best course of action atm.

[don_johnson]

ok. consider my vote on ztife as still there. but

unvote

i have a few conclusions to share but i will do that later. in the meantime i want bump to answer the questions. lets cut the angry rhetoric, bump. just answer the questions i asked. ask some of me if you need to.

RC:

who are the 2 final scum and why?

who did you shoot and why?

penguin:

what is your read on bump?

epm:

what is your read on bump?

[don_johnson]

RC: answer the questions.

epm: thanks. i am going to try and understand him.

[don_johnson]

Since RC is still avoiding answering my question, how do you reconcile his incredibly anti-town behavior with his claim?

thats the hard part. and the more this goes on the more likely i think he is actually sk and not vig. i need him to answer my questions. either way, i think ztife's push to get rid of the sk before scum is worth lynching first. ztife is correct, if he is the final scum and RC is sk, then it really doesn't matter which player we lynch today, i would personally just err on the side of caution. once RC answers my questions i will expand more on my recent conclusions.

MrBump is probably the least likely scum as far as I can tell.

i agree. there is really only one scenario in which i believe bump could be scum at this point. i'll expand later.

So it's Ztife, who SAS ignores and lots of eliminated town players wanted dead, or don_johnson, who might be playing me.

No real conclusion yet except that I'm not in a very 'trust my reads' place right now.

i can see where this is coming from. it makes no sense for scumdj to fight so hard in defence of an alleged sk. literally no sense.

It's worth nothing that DJ doesn't even say SAS's name or mention him once in the entire game before his flip.

Coming round more to the idea of Ztife, he made some poor posts in earlier days but if I had to lynch one person not called RC, it'd still be DJ.

i would have to look back as i don't recall interacting with SAS, but i don't remember him as being a big factor or participant in this game. and my first two days were mainly just coasting. but i guess i have to rely on your common sense as well here. why would scumdj be fighting to keep the alleged sk around? if he is sk, theres a good chance he is bulletproof and theres a good chance scum would know that. so yeah. i don't know. if you have any questions here just ask. i will post a bit more once RC answers the questions.

RC: ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

[don_johnson]

Big question here is, why would DJ defend RC so hard? (if TL:DR, I'll summarise it below)
DJ and RC is scum buddies in a multi-ball. I have said repeatedly this is still a possibility and i'm not sure why we would want to ignore this.

because evidence suggests otherwise. 2/3 nights with only one kill and no claimed protective role.

So there, CLEARLY, we need the SK lynched today, and there is no real answer to whether scum wants SK lynched because we don't know if he has bullet-proof or multi-ball or how many scums in the game or whatsoever. Unless there is extreme setups, all reasoning points to lynching RC today. That's all.

nope. multi-ball is paranoia. evidence does not suggest it. its the

least

likely scenario given the evidence. but you keep pushing it as though it is the most likely.

We have 5 days left btw, and RC is V/LA and even he's back he probably won't answer anything. And EPM is probably back to reading 5 sentences a day. So stop beating around the bush.

so you are content to just ignore epm? you are tunneling me based on the least likely scenario(multi-ball), but are ignoring the chance that RC could actually be vig and that epm could be lurking to a win.

why exactly do you have a town read on epm?

Also, please answer this penguin

. Do you think RC is SK and do you think he needs to be lynched today? Assuming you are 100% sure of who scum is, what makes the difference between lynching them today and tomorrow?

^^ this is ztife trying to live to see another day.

By lynching SK today you also eliminate the possibility of having 2 NKs tonight.

nope. if there are two scum left thats game if we lynch sk. if only one scum, then lynching sk should only leave one nk.

Also, compare the possibility of how sure of you who the SK is and how sure of you who the scum is precisely why im telling you to lynch RC first, and you can go for me (or dj or whatever) tomorrow. Why is that hard to see? Do you also understand that to lynch RC we probably need your vote and we still have to convince EPM?

ok. heres my conclusion i was saving until RC spoke up. but in my estimation, mr. bump can only be scum with ztife. bump cannot be scum with dj, RC,epm, or penguin. its just not possible.

epm is likely town, because as scum he would have little motivation not to lynch RC, and no motivation to townread bump.

penguin, well, if he's scum, i will hand him the win. i just don't think he is.

so here are the possibilities i see:

ztife/SAS scum team against RCbpsk against all vanilla town.

or

ztife/bump/SAS scum team against town with RC limited vig.

so we lynch ztife first. sort out between bump and RC tomorrow.

i really don't see any other possibilities at this time. currently i think the 2pscum/sk thing is where we are at, but bump's infuriating denial of the most likely scenario at this time is just baffling.

most likely scenario based on the evidence at hand(taking into account claims, nk's and gameplay):

ztife/SAS vs RCbpsk vs vanilla town.

bump: why are you against the ztife lynch? in other words, who do you believe to be partnered with SAS?

[don_johnson]

RC:

you have done yourself no favors.

[don_johnson]

i also love how ztife keeps saying "we could have a doc" when its totally fucking obvious that noone here is a doctor. and yet, all of the scenarios that i have thrown out are "crazy". he is not acting like his own lynch would end in a town loss. he is just trying to argue to keep himself alive. my bet is he is SAS partner and is honestly unsure of whether or not we are in multi-ball which is why he is pushing the idea so forcefully. that and because if he can convince us of that then he gets to live another night.

if only bump wasn't buddying ztife so hard here i would be 100% sure....

[don_johnson]

ok. that selfie looks like a last ditch effort by a desperate sk. i'll bite on the 2p scum vs sk vs all vanilla town.

bump: you need to let go of your anger.

vote: radiant cowbells

let's see what happens..

if its an sk flip and the game continues, last scum is either ztife or epm imo. most likely ztife. bump and penguin should be clear.

[don_johnson]

I think our odds and chances are far better to do that than to lynch into five people hoping we hit scum when we have guaranteed importance somewhere else.

this is such a misrep. i really feel we just lost the game here to ztife/bump/SAS. its like you are ignoring the fact that we aren't just "hoping we hit scum". we are scumhunting. but whatevz. its done. are you scum?

[don_johnson]

yo P: do you agree that an sk flip clears bump? i think ztife is most likely scum if game continues, but we need to take a look at epm as well.

[don_johnson]

RC: get over yourself. you should have worked harder. seriously. its not that you suck, but there were a couple things you should NOT have done. onnce you claimed, you should have become the most protown player in the world. that scummy hammer really ruined it for you. but oh well. oh and you should have explained your kills better, especially when i spent all day defending you and then you just seemed to dodge my questions.

if its bump/ztife i just want to say "i told you so."

bump, if you are town, you need to learn to listen. lynching sk/vig in this scenario is NEVER EVER EVER the right move. but whatevz. its been fun, even with the ridiculous amounts of ad hom.

[don_johnson]

"don't feel good" as in "i am scum and just bent you all over by lurking the shit out of this game"?

or "don't feel good" as in "i am town and i think we just lost"?

[don_johnson]

i had no issues with the claim. but the hammer and refusal to answer questions. and then of course, the self vote. ugh.

[don_johnson]

bump: why would you say that? I think traitor is considered part of the mafia, so we are down to 4p, which means mafia win if such a role exists here. it looks to me like obvious set-up is obvious. 2p scum vs town with one limited pr. still say most likely scum is ztife.

penguin: where you at?

ztife: that's a dumb question. ask a better one. I laid out my thoughts just fine yesterday.

[don_johnson]

hm. the wiki is a bit unclear on rules governing a traitor. doesn't really specify if they count towards a win, but it wouldn't make sense cause in this situation traitor and scum could just stalemate a lynch. so yeah. no traitor. one scum left. most likely set-up is exactly what we talked about yesterday while ztife was going insanely paranoid over whether RC was sk or multi-ball etc.

I want to hear from penguin and I will do some rereading here, but my vote is going to ztife unless they can convince me one of you two are the final scum.

[don_johnson]

Why am I scum again?

you are most likely SAS partner. I didn't make that case, maybe penguin did. I think he stated it was through associative tells, but i'll let him answer that. for me, it was your uber paranoid reaction yesterday and your consistent abandonment of common sense regarding set-up and what the best move was for town. guess who said "hey guys, lynching RC is the wrong move"? yeah, that was me. guess what. it was the wrong move, and the only reason this game continued is because we got lucky on set-up. your entire case yesterday was built from a scum perspective and I stated it over and over and no one really seemed to listen. only scum had to fear sk/multi-ball. and only SAS partner would fear multi-ball because for everyone else, RC was

either

vig or sk.

ok. that selfie looks like a last ditch effort by a desperate sk. i'll bite on the 2p scum vs sk vs all vanilla town.

bump: you need to let go of your anger.

vote: radiant cowbells

let's see what happens..

if its an sk flip and the game continues, last scum is either ztife or epm imo. most likely ztife. bump and penguin should be clear.

And no, your thoughts are not laid out fine. Your hammer contradicts literally everything you have said on Day 4.

except, of course, what I said when I hammered. and all the stuff I said in the post or two before that. but if you want to quote it, and then ignore it, that's up to you.

Its a little something we call an opportunistic vote.

nah. oppurtunistic would have been to simply lynch RC right out. Fact: there can only be one scum left. which means that yesterday, there was one lone scum. and that scum would have had no idea what the hell was going on in this wonky set-up and would have been hell bent on lynching the fuck out of the "other" claimed nightkiller. kind of like how, oh, id don't know... how you were acting?

What happening to

lynching scum over SK

? What happen to your insistance in 3scum + SK?

nothing. no one seemed to agree, and in listening to bump I agreed on the most likely set-ups. of which, 2p scum/sk/vanillatown seemed to be most likely after all our discussion. I can't lynch you on my own. and no one was supportive of it yesterday. considering I lynched the guy that YOU wanted to lynch from the get-go, I honestly don't see the problem for you. in your eyes, I should prpobably be clear at this point. I think your best move would have been to nk obvtownpenguin and go after epm. but then I would have called you on that as well. so whatevz.

In light of your scum hunting for D4 (which is literally just defending RC and accusing me in essence) you hammered instead of pushing my wagon (whom you thought scum).

I pushed your wagon all day. I only hammered after RC failed hard in answering questions and self voted. also after discussing things with bump and working them out in my own head. which is all clearly documented in my posts.

And unless im clearly mistaken you are ditching your "scum over SK" because it was going to be an easy hammer. So, try again scum. Maybe you can come up with a better reason.

wonderful theory. but why in the hell would scumdj have gone through all that trouble? you are missing the most important element here... motive. you need a majority to lynch, and the majority was leaning towards RC. I can only fight for what I believe for so long. we can wifom it all day, but I can only hope that people use common sense today and realize that...

dj was fucking right.

[don_johnson]

penguin: merely asking for your opinion. not sure how the timing is relevant there. also, traitor makes no sense in this scenario. if there is a traitor and one scum against two town, they could just stalemate and bully until they get their way. that doesn't seem to be fair. if you can find the ruling, please enlighten me as the wiki isn't very clear. but from a common sense perspective, traitor seems irrelevant. even if we lynch a traitor we go to night with scum vs. two townies. ends in a scum win. so we need to lynch scum today regardless. again, if you look at the hard evidence, most likely set-up is 2pscum vs town with limited vig. look at how ztife pushed to get RC lynched and his reasoning why. all of his reasoning was fearmongering over a multi-ball set-up and/or the idea that for SOME reason, town NEEDED to lynch the alleged sk. though some of the arguments seem logical, there is no way ever in that situation that is in towns best interest to lynch the alleged sk. there was ZERO evidence of multi-ball from a townie's perspective. Ztife was arguing from the standpoint of being the lone scum left behind by SAS. He was honestly confused as to the set-up which led some reality to his posting, but ultimately, look at what he was trying to do. my acquiescence to the RC lynch was based on all of the things I stated. look at our post lynch reactions. look at the fact that ztife's main push for scumdj was that dj was partnered with scumRC. there is very little case to be made against dj as SAS partner. especially given all of my actions yesterday when I could have simply lynched RC and shot bump or ztife to rid myself of one of my main opponents. we can wifom this to death. if its between ztife and myself the choice shouldn't be that tough. but ask away if you have questions.

[don_johnson]

fine then. if bump or penguin are scum they can have this. I honestly don't think its possible. I think I have read this game correctly.

vote: ztife

it is not multi-ball. there is no doc. RC was the incorrect lynch. all things dj told all of you guys yesterday. you are trying to regurgitate arguments in an attempt to paint me scummy for hammering the guy YOU INSISTED was the BEST LYNCH for town. nice try.

RC self voted and failed to answer my questions. EPM, bump, and penguin all stated their intent to lynch RC over you. I was done arguing my points. all we were doing was going around in circles. my case on you hasn't changed. your case on me has. initially you said I was scum with RC. now your case is that I changed my point of view in the interest of achieving a lynch. you are putting up one hell of a fight. hopefully bump and penguin can see through your smokescreen.

I answered both of your underlined questions yesterday in my posts leading up to the RC lynch. there was much more than just a two liner. and even in that two liner, i offered part of my reasoning which you are completely ignoring. my viewpoint changed. I believed(correctly) that RC was either vig or sk and that there were either one or two scum left. from my point of view and from my years of experience I believed that lynching the sk/vig was the least desirable move based on the evidence at hand. there was no real inconsistency in my play. the rest of you decided that you wanted to lynch RC and RC played like a complete shithead(no offense bro). but that's the long and the short of it.

bump and penguin: I am not interested in going in circles with ztife. if you guys honestly think he is not scum then whatevz. I will answer any questions from you guys, but I see no point in littering the thread arguing with scum. it has pained me to even write this post.

[don_johnson]

"Precisely, multi-ball with a doc(fire and ice setup) and sk + 2 scum + 10 VTs are more possible setups since they are balanced, and in these cases lynching RC is priority to winning."

^^ is this what you said ztife? because in those scenarios lynching RC is ONLY priority to winning in the multi-ball set-up. and if you're willing to bet on four anti-town roles, why can't they be 3p scum and sk? in which case that gives us another scenario where lynching sk is the wrong move. given the evidence, multi-ball was the least likely set-up. and multi-ball was the ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY ONLY set-up in which lynching the sk would be a priority for town to win. and given the evidence of two nights with only one nk, the multi-ball set-up was the least likely set-up. so you were pushing for the "priority" lynch given the least likely set-up speculation. in the other scenarios, it benefits scum way more than town to go ahead and lynch the sk/vig player.

[don_johnson]

pen and bump: do I need to keep explaining this? I am going out for some frozen yogurt. let me know if you need anything clarified here.

[don_johnson]

DJ in a nutshell:

Defends RC.
Argues about why we should not lynch

SK

(SCUM > SK).

Hammers RC whom he thinks is SK.
Unless he's telling me he hammered someone he thinks is vig

Was going to give him a chance to explain.. but now im sure. Lynching RC is not the problem. The problem is changing your stance with no real explaination.

except for my explanation here:

most likely scenario based on the evidence at hand(taking into account claims, nk's and gameplay):

ztife/SAS vs RCbpsk vs vanilla town.

here:

i also love how ztife keeps saying "we could have a doc" when its totally fucking obvious that noone here is a doctor. and yet, all of the scenarios that i have thrown out are "crazy". he is not acting like his own lynch would end in a town loss. he is just trying to argue to keep himself alive. my bet is he is SAS partner and is honestly unsure of whether or not we are in multi-ball which is why he is pushing the idea so forcefully.

and here:

ok. that selfie looks like a last ditch effort by a desperate sk. i'll bite on the 2p scum vs sk vs all vanilla town.

its a pretty clear thought process. I wasn't getting what I considered the optimal lynch, so I compromised based on the evidence. I pitched RC a couple important questions which he skirted and then he self voted. I got tired of trying to convince everyone of the 3pscum team possibility. its not rocket science.

i think 2p scum/sk/vanillatown is more likely than multi-ball.

i think 3pscum/townwithvig is more likely than multi-ball.

based on those two scenarios, there is no need to lynch RC today. he can be dealt with tomorrow. only player who really needs him lynched today would be a scum player. so whatevz.

I was at practically at L-1 too anyway, but he knew he couldn't push my lynch.

exactly what I have been saying. no one was listening to me. for some reason, people were scared of an sk/vig. bump made a couple of good points to which I simply disagreed. otherwise, I very consistently spoke against the RC lynch. I came around to it after much discussion. its not like I was just like "herp derp, hammer." your case is entirely inconsistent with what you were saying yesterday. my case on you is still the same. you pushed the lynch towards the sk/vig spouting contradictory statistics and claiming that it was somehow in towns best interest, when, in fact, there was only ONE SINGLE scenario where it was the optimal lynch(that being multi-ball). in the 3p/sk/town scenario it would be a death knell, and in the MOST LIKELY scenario 2p/sk/town it was a gamble. in no way a priority. best case is that it didn't matter which anti-town was lynched. so me hammering what we all seemed to agree was a guy who was flipping sk in a 2pscum set-up is not contradictory to anything I preached other than me wanting us to be cautious and lynch the scum first. the scum being the guy who was doing everything in his power to convince us the WE HAD TO LYNCH THE SK pushing his arguments based on the LEAST LIKELY SCENARIO.

this is exhausting.

p-edit:

Me pushing RC lynch is scummy, you hammering issin't. Hmm, not sure if I get the logic here unless you are scum.

or if you are scum. which makes more sense because it made much more sense yesterday for scum to be pushing his lynch. and that I only hammered after a full day of discussion in which I did everything in my power to convince everyone to lynch you. but let's not talk about that part...

or the part where I explained to bump why I disagreed with his theories. lets not talk about that either. lets cherry pick quotes and hang on to the only hope scumztife has of pinning the responsibility of the viglynch onto the one fucking guy who fought it all day long based on the evidence.

again, what I take away from post 986 is this:

Precisely, multi-ball with a doc(fire and ice setup) and sk + 2 scum + 10 VTs are more possible setups since they are balanced,

and in these cases lynching RC is priority to winning

.

bolded is the part that is complete bullshit and proof that you are scum. in the 2pscum/sk scenario it is irrelevant who is lynched. sk is NOT PRIORITY to winning. except of course, for you. the remaining scum. also, multi-ball is the least likely set-up of any we discussed based on the COMPLETE LACK OF TWO NIGHTKILLS ON 2/3 of the nights. now you are starting to annoy me.

[don_johnson]

You repeatedly said to lynch me > RC.

yes.

You hammered RC when we still have a couple of days, when I was at L-1 anyway.
What happen to be chance of 3scum + sk?

we covered this. several times. I have even gone back and quoted myself where I agreed as 2pscum/sk as the most likely scenario.

Fact is, you are afraid of an NL and you want RC lynched as well.

yes, which is why I spent the whole day defending RC and gave him every benefit of the doubt before I hammered him. you were also nowhere near L-1 at this time. the votes had all shed from you.

RC was scummy all game, if you were really afraid that there is a chance town would lose because "scum ztife and his buddy" needs RC lynched to win and therefore they are pushing it so hard, then you WILL NOT lynch RC no matter what.

yup. that's what I said. but I eventually came to the conclusion that your "buddy" was SAS. who was already dead. which left you as the lone scum, overly paranoid about the possibility that you had been outscummed by an RC/dj scumteam or might possibly get beaten by an sk. we covered this too. several times now. my hesitancy on the RC lynch was that you might possibly be buddied with a third player. no one else thought that to be a possibility. I also argued for the idea that RC might just be a vig based on the claims and the body count. but no one bought that either. so whatevz.

Hammering RC, then continuous calling me scum for pushing an RC lynch (look at the plain irony there) is just pathetic.

no. it actually makes perfect sense when you read the game and see how the discussion came about.

[don_johnson]

this:

"yes, which is why I spent the whole day defending RC and gave him every benefit of the doubt before I hammered him."

was meant to have a sarcasm tag for those of you who couldn't infer it.

[don_johnson]

pen and bump: I will answer ztife's questions AGAIN if you need me to. otherwise I am done.

[don_johnson]

*bump*

I know we have nine days, and I don't want to stop you from using them all, but the thread seems a little dead. i'm happy to field questions if necessary.

[don_johnson]

seriously guys.

[don_johnson]

if bump is scum, the game is his. same goes for you. I guess we'll see. I can tell you what I would have done as scum, but its just wifom. I certainly would not have defended RC, and I certainly would not have nk'd a guy who was townreading me and agreeing with the case on ztife. but whatevz. I am pretty convinced I have this right. bumpscum is a possibility I guess, but I just don't feel its likely.

[don_johnson]

I have been in that "sk or scum" scenario so many times. ztife really covered his intentions well, especially using all the wall posting. thank goodness we were able to get everyone to calm down towards the end. emotions were so high. I probably should have not been so scummy early game, but that's just a side effect of my playstyle I guess.

gg to scum. be interested to hear their thoughts.

go town!