Mini 425 Generic Western Mafia- Game over!

[DeathSauce]

Howdy. You folks have been busy. It might take me the rest of today and most of tomorrow to catch up. Sorry my predecessor decided to abandon you.

[DeathSauce]

Oh yes, I nearly forgot

unvote

any vote that Avinyl might have placed

[DeathSauce]

Hmmm, interesting catch there Peter. I had Guardian/VRK linked in my notes, although not necessarily as scum, but not mustafa15.

I don't believe pickemgenius has put a vote on you, did I miss that? Or is it a lingering vote made by Guardian?

[DeathSauce]

Any word from John? He is rather high on my suspicion list but it is kinda pointless to vote an absent player.

[DeathSauce]

I just can't put that much importance on what could very well be just a simple confusion over the number of scum. It's not that big of a deal, and I don't like Peter and CTD's reaction to it. I also am worried by CTD's pressure for a claim. It is not necessarily the right thing to do.

Vote: crashtextdummie

[DeathSauce]

Wow, CTD, over-react much? You want fresh independent analysis? Here, it is: I don't like your push for this lynch of VRK one bit.

Yes, you discovered the whopping inconsistency that VRK once said there were three scum, and then another time said there might be four. Whoop-de-doo! He must be scum!

Sorry, it seems like you and Peter are pushing

very

hard for this lynch based on the flimsiest of evidence.

[DeathSauce]

P.S. crashtextdummy, how many scum are there in this game?

[DeathSauce]

MOD:please reconsider the deadline. I believe the action has picked up in this game and you have a fresh crop of replacements.

[DeathSauce]

Thanks Sefer!

[DeathSauce]

No problem.

1) I felt that the amount of suspicion leveled at VRK was inconsistent with the seriousness of his mistake. I actually still don't understand why it was such a big deal.

2) Seeing Peter Venkman, who was the voice of reason throughout the first 18 pages, suddenly glom onto this trivial matter as if it was the scumtell of all time really raised my hackles.

3) This sentence:

It's clearly better in this situation to lynch someone, so please get your act together, town.

was odd. We had a deadline fast approaching, there was no danger that

someone

wasn't going to be lynched. Why was CTD so anxious for everyone to jump on the VRK wagon? To lessen the importance of his vote? Maybe.

[DeathSauce]

I think I'm still voting crashtextdummie, not VRK

Whoops, misplaced that vote. Fixed now. Thanks, sharp-eyed players.

[DeathSauce]

I have to admit that a small part of my vote on CTD, with associated comments, was an attempt to see how long pickem's vote would stay on VRK if given an out.

I still am suspicious of CTD and Peter's motivation. I disagree with some of the reasoning behind their votes on VRK. But I have to admit they might be correct.

I am more troubled by pickem. His vote on VRK seemed forced since the tide was so strong toward a VRK deadline lynch and he abandoned it at the first opportunity.

Unvote. Vote pickemgenius

If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent

[DeathSauce]

Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he

knows to be town

during day one.

-Peter

So that he can influence the lynch of a townie and then point back and say "Well scum would

never

do that!"?

You're straying into WIFOM territory there.

[DeathSauce]

This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner.

Can you explain this further?

[DeathSauce]

Sorry, I appreciate the three of you trying to shift the focus onto Peter, but you honestly couldn't be more transparent. When there are three players acting in concert throughout 23 pages, it makes outing you pretty easy.

I am convinced I've chosen the right group as scum. If we lynch any of the mustafa/VRK/pickem group, I am fine with that.

[DeathSauce]

Thesp, I like you too, but you need to back up some of these statements. They are fun to read, but aren't doing much to convince me.

[DeathSauce]

I am not trying to stay off the radar. I am following your discussion with Peter avidly, but I don't think it's getting us anywhere at the moment.


Lately I have been trying to examine the situation if everyone involved in the Scumcount/WIFOM controversy is pro-town, which I am beginning to think is a possibility. The scum can just sit back and let VRK/Peter/CTD/PEG fight over minutiae while they lie unmolested. Is it absolutely necessary that one of these camps is scum?

It is strange however that VRK, PEG, and mustafa have been so closely aligned throughout the game. And Peter's argument definitely puts him out on the limb. If any of the V/P/M group comes up town he is almost certain to be lynched the next day.

It is a tough decision. All I can do is vote the camp that seems to offer the most logical option, and right now that seems to be Peter and CTD.

I still have not received any response from Thesp, when I asked for some context for his wild pronouncements of guilt/ innocence. Any progress on that front, Thesp?

[DeathSauce]

I'm not sure I buy your 'I wanted to see how long pick would vote VRK given an out' stance.

Totally understandable. It's tricksy at best. But the fact is that pickem responded the way I thought he would. Of course you have only my word on that, which is worth nothing in this game. *shrugs*

I have also stated that that wasn't the entire reason behind that vote. I was and am still concerned that CTD and Peter were making a mountian out of a molehill, it's just that Peter's further arguments made more sense to me.

[DeathSauce]

I would like to hear everyones opinion on EVERYONE.

That is not going to happen from me. I am VERY much against that in any game as I feel it only helps scum in deciding who to NK.

[DeathSauce]

So you want us to analyze everyone's posts but not to say whether or not we think they are scum or town?

Forgive me if I don't see how that helps.

P.S. Why did you unvote yourself?

[DeathSauce]

explain what arguments made sense after you said

Mainly his argument that if he were scum, all he would be accomplishing is a one-for-one trade. That is logically sound and would hurt the scum much more than the town.

[DeathSauce]

HUGE FoS on Peter Venkman, and a merely enormous FOS on CTD.

As promised.

[DeathSauce]

Hmmm, CrashTextDummy finds a tiny inconsistency and tries blowing it up into major thing, where have we seen this behavior before? Oh yes, when we lynched VRK, a TOWNIE over nothing!

"Explain or die", nice touch!

Hey Paradox, why the FoS? A little explanation might help others get suspicious too. As it is, it just make me the tiniest bit suspicious of you!

[DeathSauce]

Interesting. Perhaps I was wrong about PV and CTD. You three certainly are throwing a nice little blanket of suspicion on me. Let's look at the stated reasons. Umm, Paradox doesn't give one. Neither does gorckat, interesting. And I am rubbing Occult 'the wrong way".

Forgive me if I don't bother to defend myself from these "suspicions".

[DeathSauce]

I precisely laid out in those posts why I reached each conclusion. As far as I am aware, changing your mind is not uncommon and is allowed in this game.

My second paragraph in the last post you quoted is looking more likely by the minute

Lately I have been trying to examine the situation if everyone involved in the Scumcount/WIFOM controversy is pro-town, which I am beginning to think is a possibility. The scum can just sit back and let VRK/Peter/CTD/PEG fight over minutiae while they lie unmolested. Is it absolutely necessary that one of these camps is scum?

You, Paradoxomie, and Occult laid pretty low during that discussion. But the three of you are coming out guns blazing here on Day Two.

[DeathSauce]

Exactly.

Vote: Thesp

You've posted nothing but baseless accusations and non sequiturs since you've joined the game.

[DeathSauce]

Just letting you guys know I'll be in the mountains for the next 4-5 days, so no posting from me in that time.

unvote

just in case something silly happens

[DeathSauce]

Hello folks, I made it safely back to civilization.

Let me start out by saying I am not at all pleased with those players that decided to start throwing suspicion at me within mere hours of my posting that I was going to be gone for 4-5 days. way to go after the person you know won;t be arounfd to defend himself. Peter Venkman, Thesp, and Occult were absolutely blatant about it.

I am reinstating my vote on Thesp. FOS's at Occult and Peter

vote:Thesp

[DeathSauce]

Sheesh, pretend those typos aren't there please!

[DeathSauce]

Just checking back in to say I have seen no reason to move my vote from Thesp. I am still here and paying attention

[DeathSauce]

Hysteria might be a little blunt, but it is possible that I over-reacted. I still think Peter and CTD need to be considered suspect because of the VRK lynch and I am deeply uncomfortable with Thesp's playstyle. I will say that Thesp has altered his playstyle somewhat and has started giving some reasons behind his pronouncements.

[DeathSauce]

Unvote, Vote CrashTextDummie

[DeathSauce]

I did that to point how idiotic it looks to vote for someone with no added context.

[DeathSauce]

Hmmm, CrashTextDummy finds a tiny inconsistency and tries blowing it up into major thing, where have we seen this behavior before?

Stuff like this pisses me off. Internal inconsistencies tend to be among the more reliable scum-tells in my experience, so when I see one, I point it out. If the person being inconsistent can't explain it away, I tend to think he's scum. Evidently, the majority of the town either agreed with me or didn't feel bothered to present a feasible counter-wagon. I do not appreciate at all the way you're trying to pin this one on me in an attempt to discredit my legitimacy.

I can see your point, if it's an inconsistency that actually means something. The way I see it, you are picking meaningless points of trivia that anyone could interpret in different ways and trying to blow them up into scum-tells. It even worked, somehow, in getting VRK lynched. And you may have missed that I, in fact, did try to start a counter-wagon.

Oh yes, when we lynched VRK, a TOWNIE over nothing!

When are you planning to make up your mind on this matter anyhow? It's easy for you to say

now

that we lynched him over "nothing", but yesterday you didn't seem to think that way:

I still am suspicious of CTD and Peter's motivation. I disagree with some of the reasoning behind their votes on VRK. But I have to admit they might be correct.

:shrug: Yes, I admitted that you might be correct. That's a far cry from agreeing with you or changing my vote to agree with you.

Why do I get the feeling that you're much more interested in making various people appear in a bad light, instead of actually hunting scum? You've done at least 3 U-turns when it comes to your opinion of me and the wagon on VRK, and while I acknowledge that it's quite natural to change your opinion over the course of a game as a townsperson, I'm growing increasingly wary of it in your case.

VRK and pickem were absolutely convinvced that you and Peter were scum, pickem was even willing to vote himself to prove it ( a bad strategy I admit). Why are you trying to pretend that episode never happened? Why do I get the feeling you you are much more interested in making various people appear in a bad light?

I am keeping my vote on you, for now in large part due to your somewhat obvious bussing of PV in post 745.

[DeathSauce]

I agree gorckat, it seems like clumsy distancing, as I alluded to above.

[DeathSauce]

VRK and pickem were absolutely convinced that you and Peter were scum, pickem was even willing to vote himself to prove it ( a bad strategy I admit). Why are you trying to pretend that episode never happened?

Because it never happened.

Completely false. See posts 546 and 547. Page 21 of this thread, I believe.

It absolutely did happen.

[DeathSauce]

EBWOP: It's page 22.

[DeathSauce]

Did you read the posts in question? They specifically refer to the "CTD/Peter contingent".

That includes you. Accusing me of "misrepresenting others" is sheer hypocrisy, since that's all you managed to do in your above post.

I take it, by the way, that you do now admit that the incident occurred? If so, does that qualify as an 'internal inconsistency"?

Now answer the rest of my post.

I will answer the points that I feel need comment. As I have done in my last two posts.

[DeathSauce]

Believe what you want, I still think you are possibly scummy as well, Thesp. Unfortunately I can only vote for one scum at a time.

*******************************************
Day 2, Sixth official vote count:


Paradoxombie (2): gorckat, mustafa15
DeathSauce (2): CrashTextDummie, Thesp
Raffles (1): Peter Venkman
CrashTextDummue (1): DeathSauce

Not voting: TeamQuiggan, Paradoxombie, Occult, Raffles

10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[DeathSauce]

I don't even know what that means.

[DeathSauce]

So Peter and CTD didn't lead the lynch of VRK? I seem to remember that they did.

[DeathSauce]

So when a player asks another player a question, he is distancing himself from that player?

Peter, the interaction between you and CTD was far more than simply asking a question. I have read enough games to realize that minor internal arguments are fairly unusual between pro-town players this late in the game and that staged arguments are far more common between scum.

[DeathSauce]

You're kidding me with this, right? What is the deal with the interaction between you two in posts 796-799, and then these last few?

gorckat, say "jump!", I wanna see how high Lateralus goes.

[DeathSauce]

CTD, you crack me up.

unvote. Vote:gorckat

Let's see what Lateralus does if gorckat isn't around to tell him what to do.

FoS: Lateralus. Placing votes on people and then admitting that you haven't got a grasp on the game is scummy.

[DeathSauce]

I'll admit that I've done a lot of flailing around in this game, but I really think you have been exposed by the poor play of a newbie. That's a little unfair to you, but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

It is very difficult to read the interactions between you and Lateralus so that doesn't read as a newbie scum following instructions. I read your defense, and it failed to convince me.

[DeathSauce]

Peter, you are very perceptive to notice my "flailing", since I admitted to it in my last post. This game has been difficult for me to get a solid grip on.

Just in case I do somehow get lynched, here's my list who I think the scum are.
1) Gorckat
2) Lateralus
3) CTD