Vel-Rahn Koon is is scumbuddy with Vryklan. John is the Serial Killer. Guardian is flamingly town, it burns my eyes how obvious his townness exudes from him. Peter Venkman or Occult are probably scum (though not together). I can't figure out which one, but we should have time to lynch them both. I'm mildly unimpressed by Avinyl.
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Wow. Almost all of you look scummy. But fortunately, I waded through all the wrong scum tells to find the scum for you all, since you haven't done it, despite having 14 pages of posts to work from.
Vel-Rahn Koon is is scumbuddy with Vryklan. John is the Serial Killer. Guardian is flamingly town, it burns my eyes how obvious his townness exudes from him. Peter Venkman or Occult are probably scum (though not together). I can't figure out which one, but we should have time to lynch them both. I'm mildly unimpressed by Avinyl.
Unvote: Occult, Vote: John, since killin the SK is probably better this early than killing mafia. We can get Vel-Rahn Koon, Vryklan and Peter Venkman/Occult after that. Heck, if we have a vig, we could win by the end of N2."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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My niece believes in my powers. You should too.Raffles wrote:@Thesp - How on Earth did you determine all that in one go?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I will tell her that. I bet you just made a 5 year old cry.Occult wrote:Lastly, your neice's arrogance doesn't sit well with me."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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My pleasure! For what it's worth, I am giving an indirect answer to a playstyle question Guardian posed in this game. 8)Occult wrote:On the other hand, thanks for answering my questions and showing proof of your accusations. *Sarcassm*"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I respectfully disagree.mustafa15 wrote:Thesp, care to explain anything? Just stating things as fact isn't really the best strategy..."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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How prophetic.Guardian, some time ago wrote:question on general theory: is it sometimes better to not call out a scum so they won't be more careful, and then to point out fishy things after many slipups, or should I/we point out stuff as soon as we see it?
If they're both scum, I have serious reservations as to them being scum on the same team - I have them as dissociated in my notes.Guardian wrote:I can definitely see how BOTH Peter and Occult would be scum, especially Peter.
To gain brownie points. Defending townies isn't a tell as to townieness or scumness, in my experience,John wrote:The thing I'd have to really disagree with is John as not pro-town. Why in hell would he defend me so much if not pro-town?especiallyearly.
I didn't see him as notable. I'll be happy to review.Guardian wrote:Thesp/all: thoughts on Paradoxscum? I could definitely see P&P scumpair, much more obviously than I can see V&V.
I think you've said it all.Guardian wrote:Mustafa has contributed very little to the game, how about him too?
I'm intrigued by your decision to vote for me based on a playstyle, while showing no indication of actuallyJohn wrote:I also hate Thesp's playstyle of pointing fingers, with no proof of anthing.
since avi will almost undoubtably replaced in my opinion, ill Unvote, Vote: Thesp untill he tells us why im an SK, and not just cause a 5 year old said so.thinkingI'm scum. That's a scum mentality.
I respectfully disagree with this. Just because it annoys you does not mean it's bad. I think the responsibility is upon you to show:Raffles wrote:But giving us no reason is a very anti-town play.
(1) Since you think that failing to give reasoning is anti-town, please show reasoning that justifies your position that failing to provide reasoning is anti-town; and
(2) Show that scum are more likely to fail to give reasoning. Some of what I've seen shows theopposite. (Also, often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not? Showing (1) may be irrelevant, if it is also the case that townies are more likely to do actionX, even ifXis unintentionally harmful.)
I don't think you'll be able to. Of course, you're also welcome to work on the gut feeling of the above, but please understand me when I continue to assert you are incorrect.
Okay. I don't mind this approach in the least, especially since I may or may not be trying to drum up support.Occult wrote:I believe he needs to justify his accusations. He can keep them to himself if he wants but he's not going to get any support like that.
We can do this if we have a vig and we turbo-vote.Occult wrote:Instead of questioning way he thinks he has this game down, you basicly asked if he could complete this game in 10 days.
That's fine with me, maybe even optimal.Paradoxombie wrote:Seems like scum, not because it supports someone I suspect(I don't even suspect guardian that much, just more than anyone else), but primarily since i don't see why you wouldn't give your reasoning.
Oh, I missed the votecount where Guardian was at lynch -1. I will double check for that.Paradoxombie wrote:If you've just read the topic you should be able to see that several of us are suspicious of his activity. How about filling us in? Don't you want to help him and us by preventing us from lynching someone wrongly?
How would (1) obtain? Also, does it look like I've gained anyone's trust? I'm uncertain that my technique is conducive to trust-forming.Paradoxombie wrote:I think it's a very scummy thing to do, to just casually remark that someone is totally innocent in your mind. It seems like something that would only be done to
1. Throw a little doubt our way. Just enough to make a difference but not be totally obvious
or
2. Try to gain someone else's trust(see directly below VVV)
Also, I <3 Occult. I'm beginning to think we should lynch Peter Venkman before him."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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It does, it just didn't seem to outweigh the others to me. It's certainly worth keeping an eye on.Guardian, re: Mustafa15 wrote:Yeah? And actively lurking seems scummy, no?
I do. I'll work on support later.Guardian wrote:If you are town, don't you want town to lynch people you are sure are scum?
I'm not sure I see how you draw that conclusion.Guardian wrote:Interesting bit there, it's fine with you that he doesn't understand why you wouldn't give reasoning. This means you're fine with his suspicion of you.
He gets me. He's trying to decipher whether or not I'm scum (as well as the people I pegged), rather than saying, "Thesp scary! Ack!" That seems to me to be more of a pro-town response.Guardian wrote:Why <3 Occult?
Better than confuses - it evokes reactions. I think it gives moreRaffles wrote:You came up with quite a lot of bold statement. Basically you walked in, started pointing fingers to assign antagonist roles. When questioned for reason, you flat out refused to give any. This confuses your bog-standard town.rawdata to work from.
I disagree with your assessment.Raffles wrote:Anti-town = Good lynch
The last statement is true because at later stage of the game, it is detrimental to have an anti-town townie. If it is to get to lylo situation, a anti-town townie could throw a town side completely off. The bottom line is this. Lynching anti-towns should be up there with lynching all liars.
Logical rampage time.Raffles wrote:By the way, do you realize that question 2) you've thrown at me is an utter thick concoction of WIFOM?
WIFOM bears a fairly consistent pattern. Its standard for is as follows:
(1) PlayerXrecognizes that scum are less likely to exhibitY.
(2)Xknowlingly and deliberately exhibitsY.
(3)Xasserts his innocence on the basis of exhibitingY. (If I were scum, I wouldn't do...)
Now, let's look at the question which you are asserting is "an utter thick concoction of WIFOM".
I'm a little uncertain as to where this utter thick concoction is. Is it in the part where I ask you to back up your assertion that the action I took is in fact indicative of me being scum? Or is it the question where I asked "often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not?", in which I am not asserting my own townieness, but instead am denying the equivalence of scum-ness and anti-townness (to which you yourself have assented)? Or is it something else I'm missing? Because at this point, I'm going to have to otherwise assume this is one of those, "Thesp scary! Boo! WIFOM! Boo!" arguments.Thesp wrote:(2) Show that scum are more likely to fail to give reasoning. Some of what I've seen shows the opposite. (Also, often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not? Showing (1) may be irrelevant, if it is also the case that townies are more likely to do action X, even if X is unintentionally harmful.)FOS: Raffles.
QFT.gorckat wrote:
Would you like a ladder to help with that one?John wrote:due to the fact that you wrongly said a quote was by me, which seems to me, your trying to dicredit me, feuadian slip or not."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm really, really not seeing this. Can you show me how? Feel free to be patronizing in your explanation.Raffles wrote:If you really want to know, the argument you presented is a variant of too townie/scummy argument. It's a branch of WIFOM, and you laid it out in plain daylight.
I could go with this.Guardian wrote:So, um, let's wagon Peterscum?
This is a bad reason to lynch anyone, because genuine townies can be incorrect, and it's far preferable to lynch someone more likely to be scum.Guardian wrote:ebwop: Or lynch me, confirm me as town, you know I trust thesp for good reasons, you know I really think Peter is scum etc...
God be with you and yours. Welcome back.Avinyl wrote:I apologize, i had internet problems and then a friend of mine died in a traffic accident. I will reread and post soon.
I was thinking theVel-Rahn Koon wrote:Interesting responses to Thesp's initial post, esp. from Raffles, John, and to a lesser extent, PZ.exactsame thing."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Good job avoiding the question. I've re-printed the question for your convenience.Raffles wrote:No one's anywhere near close to lynch yet.
Peter, what's your take on all this?
Thesp wrote:
I'm really, really not seeing this. Can you show me how? Feel free to be patronizing in your explanation.Raffles wrote:If you really want to know, the argument you presented is a variant of too townie/scummy argument. It's a branch of WIFOM, and you laid it out in plain daylight.
I disagree.Mustafa wrote:Guardian wrote:So, um, let's wagon Peterscum?
So, um, that's really not helpful at all.Guardian wrote:So, um, let's lynch Peterscum?
I see you said something, but all I hear is, "Boo! Boo! Be afraid!" without actual contribution to the discussion.Peter Venkman wrote:...and for the love of god,have they been doing this? Everything that happens on day one is a WIFOM argument. No single town player has any reason to pat another on the back, or say things like "So and So makes a good point." Until we have some voting records and confirmations no town player has good reason to trust anyone else.WHY"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Goof for you. Keep it up, rather than resting on your laurels. I'm trying to control the pace of the game (to use your words) because I get the best results that way, and find out a heck of a lot more than sitting back and doing nothing. And being aggressive is waaaaaaaaay more fun.Peter Venkman wrote:I have contributed. A lot.
Why are you trying to control the pace of this game?
[/quote]Raffles wrote:
statement.Raffles wrote:Sorry, missed it. But speak for yourself. You never said why you disagree with this
[quote="Raffles]Anti-town = Good lynch
The last statement is true because at later stage of the game, it is detrimental to have an anti-town townie. If it is to get to lylo situation, a anti-town townie could throw a town side completely off. The bottom line is this. Lynching anti-towns should be up there with lynching all liars.
What you are telling me there in red is this.Thesp wrote:(2)Show that scum are more likely to fail to give reasoning. Some of what I've seen shows the opposite. (Also, often townies do anti-town things as well, do they not?Showing (1) may be irrelevant, if it is also the case that townies are more likely to do action X, even if X is unintentionally harmful.)
-Scums can be more logical than a town. Therefore if you see a illogical town, don't automatically assume he is a scum. He could be town.
This is unacceptable as the argument here is one of "Too scummy" argument. This argument gives scums free reign to spout out logic that is about as watertight as a net, which case you would have no idea how to hunt out a scum. Speaking of which, I have a question. If this is still your theory, how do you propose to hunt out a scum?
Anti-town doesn't always equal good lynch because, in some real sense, you don't have evidence they will continue to be anti-town. Suppose you have someone who has claimed cop, and is, by some game-state, significantly more likely to be town than scum. N1 they investigate Bob, and get an innocent. N2, they investigate Bob again, because they're certain it's a one-shot investigation immunity Bob has. Now, selecting Bob as a N2 nightchoice is demonstrably anti-town, as it seems we're using it here. Would you then argue that the claimed cop should be lynched, even if he's significantly more likely to be town?
Also, I don't have any problem with your quoted argument, "Scums can be more logical than a town. Therefore if you see a illogical town, don't automatically assume he is a scum. He could be town." I suspect if you took the inverse of this approach, you'd have lynched far more townies than you ought to have. However, note that supplying reasoning and being logical are not equivalent, and my argument was largely based on thesupplyingof reasoning.
In some real sense, it does seem absurd to me to make arguments on who is scum based who is perceived to be more helpful to the town (and converseley who is more harmful),especiallywhen there are demonstrable indicators (scumtells, if you will) which are far better indicators. Remember, scumtells are based on the premise that scum are more likely to exhibit certain characteristics than townie do. If you can reliably discover what traits scum are more likely to exhibit (and conversely, what town are more likely to exhibit), you can more reliably predict what players are scum and which ones are not. Along this lines, if scum are significantly more likely to exhibitX,even if, then players who exhibitXcan be conceived as being helpful to the townXought to be treated with suspicion. Your argument would deny this useful tool.
I placed it upon you to show that your method was more indicative of discovering scum players. To this post, you have utterly and miserably failed to do so. Accordingly, I am not giving any credence to your argument, and I don't think anyone else should either."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I don't mind people taking an interest in the game. I encourage it. Of course, I haven't heard anything much from you besides "Thesp bad!". Perhaps you'll pardon me if I respectfully disagree.John wrote:Here goes another playstyle post against thesp. sorry.
your aware that you are trying to conrtol the game and you admit it as well. unforutuantly, i wont allow someone to control a game. that is about the most dangerous thing you can do in a mafia game in my opinion.
I've had that happen many a time. You may want to try on or two things:Raffles wrote:Thesp, in case you are getting worried, I did a whole big rebuttal than the damn thing logged me out. I'm going to bed now, I'll do it tommorrow.
1) before posting, hit Ctrl-A (selects all text), then Ctrl-C (copies it), and/or
2) use Notepad when making large posts.
I've saved much time averting danger in such a way. Hope it helps! And I'll be happy to patiently wait your self-discovery of how wrong you are. (I'm really having trouble conceptualizing how you are going to argue against the usefulness of scum tells, which is how I perceive the argument.)"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I think he's scum. SK is a distinct possibility.Peter Venkman wrote:So... Thesp... still voting on John because you think he is the SK?
-Peter"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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The premise of what you have written is absurd. Suppose I have seen, as I've played games through the years, that when someone says "rutabaga", then approximately 60% of the time, that player is scum. It's certainly not foolproof, but if this is my experience, it behooves me greatly to suspect anyone that says "rutabaga" that much more. (This is the principle of a "scum tell".) In my experience, I have seen things which are far more likely to be done by scum than by town, and I've seen some things which are far more likely to be done by town than scum. I draw on that experience to play, and I like to think I'm a better-than-average player for it. (Whether I actually am or not is another subject entirely.) You want to dismiss this useful tool all together.Raffles wrote:Scum-tells don't exist. Wiki testifies to this. Wiki tells you that tells should be taken as a guideline at best. And no one has updated mafia-tells until 2004. In my view, scum tells are so unreliable at catching a scum you might as well not use it. It's like a car that is almst guaranteed to break down on every journey it makes.
Then the best the town can do is to cooperate with each other until there comes a point the scums has to do something anti-town because it conflicts their interests too much. This is where rules of thumb like "LynchAllLiars" come from.
Your premise of scum hunting is fundamentally flawed for a number of reasons. If the best thing the town can do is cooperate, why should anyone vote for anyone? Why in the world would scum even try to act anti-town during the day? What in the world would it benefit them, since the town is already neutered in its ability to find scum (since scum tells are so unreliable we're random-lynchingat best)?
This is also to discount the enormous discussion on what actually is anti-town and what is not. I don't think you've even reached the place where you can discuss that. You have miserably failed in your endeavor here, and I suggest you seriously rethink how mafia is actually played. You'll find that tells do exist, even if they're not foolproof."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This is the part of your argument that is wrong. Since it appears the rest of your argument is based upon his premise, I've essentially ignored the rest of your argument as inconsequential.Raffles wrote:Whole basis of scum-tells are based around people making certain types of mistakes.
Scum-tells are based upon scum doing things more often than townies doing things.They're not even necessarilymistakes, per se, it's simply an indication that the person who uses them are more likely to be scum. Suppose it was demonstrated that red-heads are 10 times more likely to have cancer, and you know this fact. Then, suppose you're put in a room and asked to identify the one person in the room who has cancer.Ceteris paribus, you should choose the redhead. It's much the same with scum-hunting - you look for things which you've seen scum as actually more likely to exhibit, and try to get them lynched, because they're actually more likely to be scum.
I'm really having a hard time seeing how and why you're arguing against what is at its heart a scientific principle."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Also, while I'm happiest to see John swing, I will switch my vote to prevent a lynch of either myself or Guardian."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Mod: Deadline extension request, please.Thanks!"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Yes. Why aren't you voting for scum? I already pointed them out.CrashTextDummie wrote:Thesp - anything you'd like me to adress?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I really, really like this line of thought.Peter Venkman wrote:I attacked VRK because of Post 41.
As CTD pointed out, and VRK admitted, he estimated those numbers with three scum. He didn't add any caveats. It sounds like someone who knows the exact number of scum. Later, when confronted with the new knowledge of a possible SK (which scum wouldn't know about), he adjusts his numbers.
In addition, his treatment of me isn't consistant. I outlined my feelings not even one page ago in Post 455, and Post 462.
-Peter
I think you're waaaaaay off base here in every way.Raffles wrote:I don't think scum estimates are any indication of alignment in this game. The rule of thumb in mini (and in most games) and this especially being the "normal" is 25% of the population is scum. Guessing the number of scum in this game is not significant.
Unvote: John, Vote: Vel-Rahn Kuhn.I'd still like to see John swing, but I'm perfectly happy lynching VRK."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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At a deadline, there will be a lynch of the player with the most votes.CrashTextDummie wrote:It's clearly better in this situation to lynch someone, so please get your act together, town.
Mod: Can you please clarify what you men on the tie-breaking votes?Are you using longest-held-last-vote, first-to-get-there, or what? Thanks!"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner.DeathSauce wrote:I just can't put that much importance on what could very well be just a simple confusion over the number of scum. It's not that big of a deal, and I don't like Peter and CTD's reaction to it. I also am worried by CTD's pressure for a claim. It is not necessarily the right thing to do.
Vote: crashtextdummie
Hmm...I think I may have been wrong on who the mafia were first time around.Occult wrote:Sorry about my slight absence.
First, I don't like Deathsauce's vote on CTD.
Secound, I'm gonna go ahead and vote paradoxzombie
I see the case on VRK, also I didn't completly like his last post but, so it doesn't seem like I'm avoiding a stance on the issue, I'll say I don't think there's enough for his lynch.
I would claw my eyes out. I think we're already losing information being buried under the mounds of crap.Peter Venkman wrote:I don't mind if Day One lasts another two months, as there are lot of players who have not been put on the spot.
Mod: I don't want to see the deadline pushed back past two weeks from now for any reason.Pretty please.
This is interesting, given that the mod had, just a few posts earlier, delineated how timing of when votes are on is significant.pickemgenius wrote:1a.I knew I would be on again before the deadline to apply my vote again if I had too, what's it matter to you?
I am uncertain that this is a fair characterization.Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:The whole reason for voting me is because I picked 3 scum (voluntarily in post 41) and then I picked 4 when asked a direct question. So now I'm the number 1 candidate for a lynch based on that - and you want me to claim? Why? What good is a claim going to do at this point?
I also really like this Peter guy and think we should keep him around."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I like you, even though you're only 1/3 right.DeathSauce wrote:Sorry, I appreciate the three of you trying to shift the focus onto Peter, but you honestly couldn't be more transparent. When there are three players acting in concert throughout 23 pages, it makes outing you pretty easy.
I am convinced I've chosen the right group as scum. If we lynch any of the mustafa/VRK/pickem group, I am fine with that."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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This is flat-out wrong. Scum areVel-Rahn Koon wrote:Town don't use WIFOM arguments! WIFOM is a scum tactic designed to confuse the rest of the players.more likelyto use WIFOM in certain situations.
This is absurd.pickemgenius wrote:Only oneself chooses how an experience is.
I'm really, really uncomfortable with your attack here, while I acknowledge there is a minor WIFOM going on here. I'm curious - what did you think of death's initial thoughts which spurred this point of contention?Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:
This IS a WIFOM argument.Post 550, Peter Venkman wrote:
Please outline why a scum player would take a strong, outspoken and aggressive stance towards a player he knows to be town during day one.Death wrote: If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent
-Peter"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Don't ask.gorckat wrote:
This is something that's been buigging me since it was psoted...Occult wrote:I believe you should make shorter posts. :arrow:
(don't ask about the arrow)
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I'm entirely not understanding here. What did you think of DeathSauce's original argument?Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Well I know my own role, so I know exactly where Death's eyes will be turning. As of now, I'm on top for the lynch for Monday because of the number of votes I have. Let's keep it that way and maybe you guys can actually find scum in this game."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Let me see if I'm understanding correctly. Peter Venkman is defending himself from this...Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:Is this what you were looking for? I hope I've understood your question correctly this time.
...which you describe here...DeathSauce wrote:If either pickem or VRK turns out to be town, my eye will turn toward the CTD/Peter contingent
...is that correct? It seems you're asserting DS's reasoning is poor (which is essentially what Peter Venkman suggested with his minor WIFOM), though springboarding from his attack anyway. Is that correct? (Looking over, I'm not sure if it is, I need to make sure one way or the other.)Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I think the reasoning for the switchover is lacking.
Then why follow it instead of try to steer it somewhere useful?DeathSauce wrote:I am not trying to stay off the radar. I am following your discussion with Peter avidly, but I don't think it's getting us anywhere at the moment.
Nope, sorry.DeathSauce wrote:I still have not received any response from Thesp, when I asked for some context for his wild pronouncements of guilt/ innocence. Any progress on that front, Thesp?
I think you need to get your vote moving, buddy. A deadline is all the more reason to have a vote out there. Take a stand,Paradoxombie wrote:I think you're overracting a bit, but the reason I don't feel the urge to vote at the moment since we have a deadline.now. (Edit: You did. Okay.)
I like you. Your given reason is only the tip of the iceberg on how right you are on this position.DeathSauce wrote:
That is not going to happen from me. I am VERY much against that in any game as I feel it only helps scum in deciding who to NK.pickemgenius wrote:I would like to hear everyones opinion on EVERYONE.
How? I think you are very, very incredibly wrong on this point.pickemgenius wrote:It helps town way more then scum."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm having some last-minute self-doubt on VRK. I'm still happier with lynching him above pickemgenius (though I'd like to see PEG put a vote down). I'll try to be around near the end so if things change, I can too."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Vote: mustafa15. FOS: DeathSauce, Team Quiggan.
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Later.Peter Venkman wrote:@Thesp> why FOSTeam Quiggan? I don't have much of a read on him"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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That's not what I expected at all.TeamQuiggan wrote:wishew, alot of snarky quick attacks, but I guess that is to be expected now that 2 townies bit the dust.
Right now Im going to keep my eyes on Peter Venkman, Thesp, & CrashTextDummie. Who, also, are the most aggressive players. I worry that we may just be jumping at shadows as the scumm watch from afar and mock us. *Shakes fist*
But I do have some OMGUS hate going on against Thesp there. Sure I was involved in the rope tying, but that was just my civic duty. Also he slings bold text around quicker then Widowmakers, and that makes me nervous.
CrashTextDummie- This guy is always quick with both barrels, and in the thick of everything, could be scummy
Peter Venkman-Oppo-OMGUS on this guy, but still alot of fierece battling for the lynch, going to keep the eye on him.
Good thing they killed PEG, I didn't like his brashness, and he was kinda scummy.UnFOS: TeamQuiggan.
Sorry, I wanted to see his TeamQuiggan's post first. My suspicion of TeamQuiggan was a holdover from his predecessor. I'm less inclined to pursue TeamQuiggan now.Peter Venkman wrote:No way man. You have been pulling that stuff all game. If you want to help the town, now is the time. Otherwise you have just been posting little goofy tidbits left and right, without any analysis.
I liked his boldness and willingness to take a stab at who he thought was scum. The "1/3 right" was an allusion to that I agreed with one of his three picks for scum then.Peter Venkman wrote:What is this all about?
-PeterThesp wrote:DeathSauce wrote:Sorry, I appreciate the three of you trying to shift the focus onto Peter, but you honestly couldn't be more transparent. When there are three players acting in concert throughout 23 pages, it makes outing you pretty easy.
I am convinced I've chosen the right group as scum. If we lynch any of the mustafa/VRK/pickem group, I am fine with that.
I like you, even though you're only 1/3 right.
Simply because I don't post reasons doesn't mean I don'tDeathSauce wrote:You've posted nothing but baseless accusations and non sequiturs since you've joined the game.havethem.
I'll go back and check a little later when I have some time, I think it had something to do with what appeared to be a deflection to me.gorckat wrote:@Thesp: Can you now divulge what you saw here:~5-22 wrote: This is an odd approach, when CTD had just confirmed himself as VRK's partner."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Actually, it was VRK at the time. It's mustafa15 now. Things change.Peter Venkman wrote:Thanks for the reply Thesp
I assume the 1/3rd you agreed with was Mustafa? What are your feelings on him now?Thesp wrote:I liked his boldness and willingness to take a stab at who he thought was scum. The "1/3 right" was an allusion to that I agreed with one of his three picks for scum then.
What do you think about Death's Day Two behavior?
-Peter
I'm uncomfortable, to say the least, with Deathsauce's behavior today. What about you?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I could see this.Occult wrote:Not liking DS right now, it looks kinda like scum had a good day (yesterday) and now he's got confidence.
His early comments re: CTD feel odd and forced. He's also somewhat condescending, which tends to come from scum more than town.Raffles wrote:Thesp, what struck you as weird about deathsauces behaviour?
I'm finding that I like Peter Venkman, even if I can't figure out whether or not he's scum. That bothers me (the being unable to read someone part).
I'm a little surprised at CTD's unvote.
I am, however, happy with the Paradoxombie hate now (though I confess I didn't buy the early wagon):
This bothers me. A lot. He looks more concerned about being lynched than he does finding scum.Paradoxombie wrote:I thought everyone looked suspicious but I couldn't make a decent enough case against anyone. It's not that I was worried about getting on a bad wagon, I was worried If I got on one and then had no real explanation of why I did, except "uhhhh, they were suspicious"
that wouldn't just look bad, I'm pretty sure I'd get lynched in most scenarios
This is really, really bizarre. I'd stated suspicion of you before you notified us you were leaving, the only comment I made about you was in direct response to PV's question. Where did this come from? OMGUS for the win?DeathSauce wrote:Let me start out by saying I am not at all pleased with those players that decided to start throwing suspicion at me within mere hours of my posting that I was going to be gone for 4-5 days. way to go after the person you know won;t be arounfd to defend himself. Peter Venkman, Thesp, and Occult were absolutely blatant about it.
Please refresh my memory.mustafa15 wrote:I'm thinking it's time for a vote:Paradoxombie
My reasons have been documented
Right now, I'd be happiest lynching DeathSauce, mustafa15, or paradoxombie."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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What changed between then and now that made you add your vote?mustafa15 wrote:You can see post 678 for my LoS
mustafa15 wrote:Paradoxombie wrote:Vote: Avinyl
Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I feel like he's not coming back, at least not soon enough to make me feel guilty.
This vote seems stupid to me, it looks like you are putting a pressure vote on somebody that you don't think is going to be looking at the thread at all. I have an Fos on Paradoxombie because he never seems to have any opinion on anything.Paradoxombie wrote: I was mostly voting Avinyl because I didn't think he was comming back.
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Then why not say that, rather than "My reasons have been documented"?mustafa15 wrote:
I haven't liked Paradoxombie's recent post, particularly this one...Thesp wrote:What changed between then and now that made you add your vote?
Paradoxombie wrote:I thought everyone looked suspicious but I couldn't make a decent enough case against anyone. It's not that I was worried about getting on a bad wagon, I was worried If I got on one and then had no real explanation of why I did, except "uhhhh, they were suspicious"
that wouldn't just look bad, I'm pretty sure I'd get lynched in most scenarios
at least I'd lynch someone else who did that.
Don't know.CrashTextDummie wrote:Thesp - You think mustafa15 is busing?
This troubles me. A burden of proof is often used by scum to set too high a standard for people to meet. This feels...taunting.paradoxombie wrote:j/k! Burden of proof, man.
This is an awfully loaded question.Occult wrote:Now tell me why you aren't scummy.
Flagged (for my reference).gorckat wrote:Not sure what else could have been said, but I'm a little surprised xombie had nothing to say to why I found him more scummy...
I'm not liking anything around the paradoxombie wagon, including paradoxombie."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I don't believe you - I think you're trying to backtrack your visceral OMGUS which you perceive in retrospect to be scummy.DeathSauce wrote:I did that to point how idiotic it looks to vote for someone with no added context.Unvote: mustafa15, Vote: DeathSauce.
I've found the entire CTD/PV exchange thoroughly uninteresting."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Where have you read games like this? This doesn't match my experienceDeathSauce wrote:Peter, the interaction between you and CTD was far more than simply asking a question. I have read enough games to realize that minor internal arguments are fairly unusual between pro-town players this late in the game and that staged arguments are far more common between scum.at all. I think you're making things up at this point."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm intrigued to hear the justification behind this.Peter Venkman wrote:In conclusion: I fully expect you to jump through a hoop of fire. Right now. If you don't do it, you are scum."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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That's the response I was looking for. Nevermind.Peter Venkman wrote:I'm intrigued to hear why you took it seriously.
-Peter
*******************************************
Day 2, Seventh official vote count:
Paradoxombie (3): gorckat, mustafa15, Lateralus
DeathSauce (2): CrashTextDummie, Thesp
CrashTextDummue (1): DeathSauce
Not voting: Paradoxombie, Occult, somestrangeflea, Peter Venkman
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gorckat wins the thread!gorckat wrote:Save it for your NK, DS."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Then why don't you do something about it?mustafa15 wrote:Wow, I really don't like the rapidfire lynching of DeathSauce. I mean, that was the final four votes in a little over an hourVote: mustafa15."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Actually, I'm thinking the opposite - Lateralus isn't scum.somestrangeflea wrote:I know! Similey-Smiles!
Anyhoo, I'm kinda thinking Lateralus is Scum due to his, IMO, hesitant entry into the game. Whilst I realise that this was, like, a day ago, I haven't really got much else to go by, since he's only postedninetimes in 12 days. Active lurking is a basic summary of my reasons.FOS: somestrangeflea, gorckat.
I'd like to hear some guesses from Peter Venkman."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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While I don't like your approach at all, it feels very genuine and incredibly townie-like.Peter Venkman wrote:Thesp> I'm learning that my scum radar is piss poor. I was convinced VRK, Death, and Guardian/PickEm were all scum.
Earlier in this game I was accused of "leading the town." I wish I could keep up the momentum, but after two lousy picks, I'm not feeling it. In addition, I realize that my poor judgment is a tool that can be wielded against me now. For that I have no defense, and if it becomes an issue worthy of lynching I have further failed the town.
If I understand it right, all that needs to happen now for the town to lose is two townies to put their vote on another town, and the scum can end the game. For this reason I will not be voting haphazardly.
When I have seen enough arguments from everyone I will place my vote.
-Peter"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of what's happening.somestrangeflea wrote:
I get FOS'd for thinking someone is lurking.Thesp wrote:
Actually, I'm thinking the opposite - Lateralus isn't scum.somestrangeflea wrote:I know! Similey-Smiles!
Anyhoo, I'm kinda thinking Lateralus is Scum due to his, IMO, hesitant entry into the game. Whilst I realise that this was, like, a day ago, I haven't really got much else to go by, since he's only postedninetimes in 12 days. Active lurking is a basic summary of my reasons.FOS: somestrangeflea, gorckat.
I'd like to hear some guesses from Peter Venkman.Further FOS: somestrangeflea.
Copycat.somestrangeflea wrote:
And with that, my opinion of you has been sway from "There's a small chance PV is Scum" to "There's a reasonable chance PV is Town". Well done!Peter Venkman wrote:Thesp> I'm learning that my scum radar is piss poor. I was convinced VRK, Death, and Guardian/PickEm were all scum.
Earlier in this game I was accused of "leading the town." I wish I could keep up the momentum, but after two lousy picks, I'm not feeling it. In addition, I realize that my poor judgment is a tool that can be wielded against me now. For that I have no defense, and if it becomes an issue worthy of lynching I have further failed the town.
If I understand it right, all that needs to happen now for the town to lose is two townies to put their vote on another town, and the scum can end the game. For this reason I will not be voting haphazardly.
When I have seen enough arguments from everyone I will place my vote.
-Peter"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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His attack on Lateralus feels off to me. Who do you have pegged at the moment?Occult wrote:Im not seeing Lat as a lurker at the moment and Im not seeing scum from him either. Thesp why are you suspicious of SSF?"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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My apologies for my absence here - I just want to get a quick word in saying I'm back after Thespival. I'll catch up tomorrow."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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It felt more natural, even if I think it misguided - however that changed as I read more and caught up. See below.gorckat wrote:Thesp- you say flea's attack on Lat feels off. What about mine?
If a deadline gets us moving, I'm good with that.Peter Venkman wrote:Are you kidding me? In what way does a deadline benefit the town?
Did you all forget about day one?
-Peter
This feels very OMGUSy, previous vote notwithstanding.gorckat wrote:vote: paradoxombie
You're appealing to emotion way to hard.
There's more to quote, but there's too much, and much of it has the same feel.gorckat wrote:Really? Peter made up my mind for me?
Golly gee...I guess all the suspicions that I'd previously voiced about DS don't exist. Maybe some of that speculation that got zipped off into nowhere helped convince Peter...
It's also interesting that you go after the person who put DS at -2, not the -1 or the lynch. I haven't gone after Occult except with more than a FoS, but lat I was voting till your colon started spewing into the thread.
This feels exceedingly defensive and snippy. I get a real feeling of "How dare you accuse me of being scummy, when I haven't let on anything!" It feels really out of place to me, and makes a whole heck of a lot of sense from scumGorckat.
Hmm. I had theOccult wrote:Christ after that exchange I really want to vote Pzombie.oppositereaction.
*reads, growls at Lateralus*
1. Unbelievably awesome.Aimee wrote:1. How was Thespival?
2. Why do you believe Lateralus is town?
3. What are your thoughts on gorckat?
2. No.
3. See above. I'mverywary of him, and would like to see him swing today. My strong suspicions of his townieness have entirely disappeared."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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It wasn't immediately clear that the paradoxombie lynch was doomed to fail.gorckat wrote:I'm not thick-skinned enough to maintain that kind of behavior, and xombie seems to be town so it was doomed to fail period.
I'm torn between SSF, gorckat, and the reasonable assertions levelled against Occult at this moment, though gorckat's recent bit makes me feel slightly more comfortable about him over the other two. I'll be around to make sure one of these three swings. I'm still working out which one I'd rather it be, but I almost feel as though it doesn't matter, and maybe I'm right about all three."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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Occult wrote:Vote Pzombie
Didn't like Ichigo, don't like him.Unvote, Vote: Occult."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I've got to pack before I fly out. I'll be back Sunday evening. Sorry."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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I forgot you'd claimed townie.pickemgenius wrote:Also...
Who the hell NK's me...
I was very glad Occult missed the paradoxombie cop-hint drop. It was easy to take advantage of. I also thought that Guardian, Peter Venkman and gorckat were flamingly townie the whole game, though that may have been aided by the fact that Iknewthey were townie.
Sorry I disappered more than I liked! Good job on this for balance reasons.Sefer wrote:I had the godfather (well, in theory; Thesp had a knack of disappearing when night choices were due, so I was accepting them from whichever scum sent them) pick who among them would kill each night. This didn't really matter, with no tracker, roleblocker, or similar role that would affect outcomes differently based on who killed, but other than the hint in the godfather role that he'd be investigation immune I didn't want scum to know what power roles the town might have."When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
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