Mini 497 - Game Over

[Aimee]

vote: nekka lucifer

I watched Shrek 3 in French last night. Hope you are impressed.

[Aimee]

I don't know if this type of character cxan exist in a mini normal, but I have seen a character called the Jester or something like it, I think. And his win condition is to have the town lynch him. I doubt dusterhan is a jester, that doesn't seem to be likely in a mini normal. But his playing has been odd. None of his posts have been clear in any way, almost every one has some sort of enigma in it. He plays almost like he's trying to get us to believe he is scum or something, which, even if he is town, is extremely unhelpful to the town as a whole.

As a mod and game balancer, having a jester in a mini normal is highly highly unlikely.

[Aimee]

Vote: Aimee

Also Dusterhan why are you trying to get rid of Sephiroth, you have a reason right?

This is quite clearly an exaggeration.

Dusterhan only voted for Sephiroth - there was basically no danger of him being lynched.

Hey people!!!!

Vote: Sephiroth

cos he's got the most vote so far.

8)

What is the reasoning behind your vote for me? What do you hope to gain by voting as you are?

I'm curious about this reply, since Sephiroth here seems far too defensive about a random vote.

[Aimee]

I do not see dusterhan so much as scummy, just incredibly unhelpful.

I agree with this.

In fact, I'm far more inclined to look at those who

do

find it scummy, mainly Sephiroth, who has probably been the most against dusterhan so far.

FoS: Sephiroth

[Aimee]

The biggest attack I had on Duster. I said I was liking him less and less, I didnt even actually call him suspicious in any of my posts, simply call that one post suspect.

No, you quite clearly also say that "going with the flow is scummy", and then say he is confusing and "anti-town". This most certainly suggests that you find him scummy.

Also,

FoS: Atticus

. I notice he's managed to post a number of times, yet hasn't actually commented on any of the major issues at this point.

[Aimee]

I quite clearly say I consider one action that he took to be suspect. Not that he was scummy. Pretty much everyone here has been guilty of at least one action I've found suspect, but do I think everyone is scummy? No. Also, I didn't call him anti town or confusing, I said his comment was.

Yeah, okay.

I can understand this opinion actually. Normally when someone says "X did something which I find scummy", it normally implies that you are suspicious of X.

However, since I haven't seen it clearly displayed anywhere - are you at this point suspicious of dusterhan?

I'm most unimpressed with Atticus' "content". Try harder, kthx.

[Aimee]

Sorry guys! X_X

I've kinda been neglecting this game a bit. I promise to get some stuff up tomorrow.

[Aimee]

Hi, I promised content, and here I am! Here's my thoughts on everyone so far.

-TinVision-:

Nothing outright until he says that dusterhan should "stop acting absurd for the sake of it," and it isn't a pro-town tactic. Can't really argue with that. I find this interesting:

Note that I have no reason to think that dusterhan is scum at this point. In fact, given my experience in Newbie #361, I've gotten a strong newb town vibe. All I am saying is that his behavior is not pro-town, and that he should rectify that.

I'm not sure why he's giving you a newbie town tell - can you explain this please?

However, 2 days later, you seem to change your opinion. Considering dusterhan's lurking as a scum-tell you vote for him. I could see this as scum bandwagoning, since this rather notable change of opinion led to a vote.

Who’s blaming you? “Failed to present my reasoning”? I did present my reasoning. IT'S BLATANT LURKING. You know the thing that you keep harping about in Atticus and ignoring totally in dusterhan?

There is a difference, however. Whilst Atticus has been "lurking in plain sight", and posting yet not scum hunting, there have been times where dusterhan has just not been around. His lurking could be seen far more differently, and as a result, in my eyes, less scummy.

Talking of Atticus, why are you completely ignoring him? It seems odd that you are accusing dusterhan of something, yet ignoring Atticus who is doing exactly the same thing.

Anyway, I'm far more interested in his belief that dusterhan was like a newb townie, and (although less) interested in what caused such a dramatic change of opinion.

Atticus:

At the beginning, he simply did not scum-hunt whatsoever. He was just posting, not really saying much, and then going away again. He's recently got a bit better, saying he is suspicious of Kabenon's vote on duster, as well as questioning Nirp a bit. Overall, I'm a bit unimpressed, and would like him to comment more on other things, and continue to scum-hunt.

destructor:

Seems active enough. Don't like his conclusion on dusterhan.

I read dusterhan's posts from the other game he's playing in and he was similarly confusing in it, seemingly without realising the negative effect it's having on the Town. I dunno, maybe he's scum in both games, but my first feeling is that he's pro-Town. I realise there's a heap of WIFOM junk going on here, so...

Same as TinVision.

Why

does this make you feel pro-town?

Also, I find destructor's attacks on TinVision a bit much. He seems to be going slightly over to attack at this stage. Maybe it's just me, but my gut is telling me perhaps destructor is trying too hard.

I feel like lynching dusterhan would be a waste. Either he's fairly harmless scum or bad pro-Town. With the possibilty of the latter in mind, I feel that it isn't the best idea to lynch him, at least not today.

If you think someone is scum, why keep them around? Just because he is useless as scum or town doesn't mean he is any less of a threat. If he is scum, he is part of the enemy and we should get rid of him. This is a bit of an odd argument really.

dusterhan:

We've already had this debate about him. Frankly, I'm finding those going after him more scummy than him, but at the same time, he needs to stop lurking and contribute.

To be honest, if he is doing this in other games, it's probably his playstyle, thus has no real indication of his alignment.

joost:

I agree with lots of what he has to say. However, I don't agree with his explanation that dusterhan is likely scum - I've explained above why I don't think his actions are any real tell about his alignment. I like his observation about Kabenon, and I'm seeing active scum-hunting from him.

Kabenon:

I'm not quite sure why he pressured dusterhan - it's been shown already that he doesn't seem to respond to pressure that much.

I do agree that dusterhan's unhelpful attitude is different to being scummy. Nonetheless, I am uneasy about his vote on dusterhan. Mainly because he said before he didn't find him scummy, and it had already been established he wasn't responding to pressure. Furthermore, I'm sensing it's slightly opportunistic.

Knuck:

Again, not much from him either, but I like the way he noticed TinVision's change of opinion, and he also seems to share my opinion of dusterhan (his actions are scummy, nor pro-town).

Nekka-Lucifer:

Wow, I can't believe I let this through. Nekka has done exactlythe same as Atticus - absolutely zero scum-hunting, and his only attempted scum hunting was to say that "dusterhan's lurking is scummy", which I don't agree with either. Definitely need to keep an eye out for him.

Nirp:

He's not really contributed much, other than about dusterhan. Overall, I think his vote was a bit premature, but not entirely scummy on its own. I'm getting a town read from him at the moment.

Sephiroth:

Aggressive, definitely. However, this is evidently a playstyle thing. Overall, I actually like his responses and his opinions, especially about dusterhan. I've found nothing scummy from him at the moment.

SilverPhoenix:

Really has been too quiet at this point. I don't really understand his TinVision FoS early on, and has since lurked and thus avoided the dusterhan issue basically to its entirety.

Overall, I'd say I'm most suspicious of TinVision, Atticus, Kabenon and Nekka-Lucifer. In fact, I'm going to

vote: Nekka Lucifer

as a pressure vote - I want to see content.

[Aimee]

hey mod, can we please have a regular vote count?

Keep up the good work. That scum-hunting that you're doing is amazing.

[Aimee]

If you think someone is scum, why keep them around? Just because he is useless as scum or town doesn't mean he is any less of a threat. If he is scum, he is part of the enemy and we should get rid of him. This is a bit of an odd argument really.

I think he IS less of a threat if he's 'useless'. Unless, of course, if his actions do cause serious confusion, which perhaps they did early on. Scum who are so far undetected, who may have slipped up at some point today, they are greater threats.

Fair enough, but you have to understand that some players have intentionally useless playstyles (for example Fritzler and Lowell), yet they are strong players. Judging by what others have said, he plays like this in other games - and he is causing confusion, as the large number of posts solely about him demonstrate.

Anyway, you missed my main point regarding dusterhan. It wasn't that we should not get rid of him, even if he is scum, but that according to what we'd seen so far, he wasn't a good lynch for today and that

we should be focusing on other players, most of whom have posted more to analyse

. I still think this is true.

Yes I agree with this completely. I'd also like to focus more on those not scum-hunting, mainly Nekka-Lucifer.

You said you find 'those going after [dusterhan] scummy', yet found nothing scummy from Sephiroth?

If you check Sephiroth's posts, he does actually say that he doesn't find dusterhan suspicious. I'm therefore not sure about your point here.

Overall, my earlier opinion on Sephiroth was based on a rather misleading post, and a different playstyle that I hadn't encountered (from him, anyway), which is why I was more suspicious earlier than I am now.

[Aimee]

@Aimee: Like I said (and provided the link), recently in Newbie #361, a newbie player by the name of Dr. Blackstrike made a few posts early in the day that were similar to dusterhan's in silliness and caused a lot of confusion. He was eventually lynched, and proved to be town. Thus, even though it's a small sample size, I read dusterhan's early posts as a newb town tell.

I'm alarmed that your willing to judge dusterhan's behaviour on Dr. Blackstrike's behaviour.

Also, everyone has different playstyles. Some people are genuinely unhelpful and aggressive in all their games (for example Fritzler), but that doesn't therefore have any indication of his alignment.

However, since somebody else

did

say that dusterhan wasn't playing like this in another game, I'll be checking out his games to see.

Regarding Atticus, I find him less scummy/annoying because while there's not much content, he is at least here, reading the thread and responding to posts made that address him.

I agree with your thoughts on Atticus, but disagree with your conclusion 9that he isn't scummy). I'm not really seeing any curiosity from him - he's more reactive than pro-active (same with what I perceived Nekka to be, although now that seems to be explained by real-life reasons), meaning that I sense he's only posting when asked and such like, and not genuinely scum-hunting.

Why did joost hop on an N-L vote? The reasoning Aimee gave for voting the latter was weak, in my opinion, simply that he was barely posting any content. However, that joost went to it, and backed off right after N-L asked for a replacement is odd, to me.

No, my case on him is that he isn't

scum-hunting

. This is quite important, since I've seen scum run along not really doing much before. It allows them to remain relatively non-committal about stuff and things.

dusterhan's vote against joost seems rather OMGUS.

Also,

unvote

, since I feel my vote would be wasted while waiting for a replacement. I'll be watching Nekka's replacement carefully, however.

[Aimee]

Bon anniversaire, TinVision!

[Aimee]

unvote

.

Limited access for a while coming up.

[Aimee]

To busy to post, but I remember that Cavane seems to have limited access at the moment - he has been replaced in at least one game he was in.

[Aimee]

/self prod.

I'm still here and will post tomorrow.

[Aimee]

I really agree with destructor's arguments against TinVision (although at the same time I think he is rather aggressively arguing them.) Nonetheless, I feel destructor is more likely to be town, and TV more likely to be scum after their excahnge - I wasn't impressed with the answers he gave.

@destructor - you label the answers "satisfactory". Why?

The case destructor makes on TV is interesting, but I don't think it's anything I'd be voting on anytime soon.

Fos: Atticus

Translation: "I shall sit here for a while, and when the bandwagon grows I can hop on."

What did this post contribute?

Atticus- I found him during my read posting making very short posts. He usually posts when somebody refers a question to him making him more reactive then proactive. Didn't really contribute much in his own words to the discussion. However I get a pro-town feeling on him.

You just spent all of that explaining why he could be scum. Why then do you find him town?

[Aimee]

Ugh! I can't get a read on anybody! 'Tis frustrating! I've still got nothing for you guys.

unvote, vote: Atticus

Try again?

[Aimee]

...

unvote, vote: Atticus

Try again?

'Tis what I'm trying to do...

Really?

...
Also, atticus, how is this:

Ugh! I can't get a read on anybody! 'Tis frustrating! I've

different from this:

i've got no idea who could be mafia... so, lets leave me alone and discuss who else could be a scum

which warranted this?

Dusterhan... Tsk tsk tsk... You need to stop volunteering for things you can't do. Examples: answering questions, playing the game mafia.

While dusterhan's post implies that he would leave it up to the others to find mafia, mine says, "Hey, I'm sorry because even though I promised to start looking at players, I've failed to get anything I find conclusive."

I do apologize for stirring a false lead with that post, it was simply if anyone was wondering as to whether or not Atticus was ever going to do that analysis. Also, not to OMGUS or anything, but I find it interesting that Aimee would change her vote based on that simple post, without putting so much reason behind it as joost did for a mere FoS.

You are quite clearly lurking in plain sight. Please provide some content.

[Aimee]

/self-prod

Still think Atticus is scum, but since CKD has so many votes, I'll try and re-read him

(Note: Sorry for neglecting this game. )

[Aimee]

Caught up on reading. Assuming one of Sephiroth/CKD is scum, I'd go with CKD.

Am I voting for you? Good.

(I have really limited access at the moment, so am finding it hard to keep up. I will try to re-read over the weekend.)

[Aimee]

Sorry for my absense.

The best lynch still is Atticus.

[Aimee]

I'm lost at why Kabenon considers one of Sephiroth or CKD as definite scum. I see the possibility of two townies disputing as possible (although I agree that they are unlikely to be scum

together

.)

[Aimee]

First up: happy birthday destructor.

Secondly,

unvote, vote: Kabenon

I'm sure Atticus is scum too, but he can wait. You have become a top priority. 490 in particular is a hideous post.

[Aimee]

Away until Monday, with no access.

[Aimee]

I'm trying mega hard to catch up with MS. Almost there! By the end of the weekend, I can guarantee there will be a post here.

[Aimee]

vote: Kabenon

Let's keep these votes coming.

[Aimee]

/still here, just had access issues.

I can (hopefully) post tomorrow.

[Aimee]

I'm busy for now.

But I still like my Kabenon vote.

I'll explain when I have more time, but for now: check out post 490. It's really bad.