Mini 480 - Boring Town Mafia *GAME OVER*

[Setael]

Howdy. I'll post as soon as I've read the thread.

[Setael]

First of all,

vote: Daxam

I think you've all been too busy assuming he's a Super Newb to see that he's probably mafia. First of all, he's been a Master Lurker lately which is a huge change from how often he posted at first. He specifically requested to not be replaced when he was leaving for a lengthy trip, then has posted several times basically saying "I'm here. I'm going to start posting a LOT just you wait" and then nothing. That's only recent though, he seemed scummy to me the entire read-through. And if you go back and look, he has NEVER ONCE given a reason for suspecting anyone, even when asked directly. All he has done is try to buddy up with people and then add votes to bandwagons with no reason behind it.

It all starts in Post 33 where he asks others to share their suspicions without ever having given any of his own.

Post 34

And yes, I may appear over protective of people at times. I often am any where else. But I assure you all ,I realise now that there is a very good reason for a Bandwagon. To get reactions out of people. My actions are primarily for the good of my side.

Seems scummy to say it that way instead of "for the good of the Town". Also... primarily? If they aren't entirely for the good of your side, are the rest of your actions self serving?

Post 36 he starts a befriending campaign

Samruc, that would depend entirely on what side you are on. But if I can trust you, I'll try to defend you. Now that I think more about it, I see that your reasoning shows you very intelligent people. By you, I mean FaerieLord, Samruc and Yagami.

Post 49 votes hand banana out of the blue and gives no reason

Post 55, 58, 60, 63 - all befriending, trying to look pro-Town. No substance.

Post 73 votes flash out of the blue and gives no reason

When Yagami asks for a reason we get Post 78

I voted Flash because i also have doubts about him. I was not jumping on the bandwagon. About the fact you voted for me, I don't care. I could be lynched, just to save everyone speculation on my role.

Keeping to the pattern for the entire game, he avoids the question and doesn't provide any suspicions, or reason for voting. Just says "I have my doubts." Very unlike a Townie, who can fearlessly provide their suspicions without worrying about slipping up. Also, he's avoiding the question and attempting to deflect attention to the fact that he did jump on a bandwagon by throwing out a highly dramatic willingness to martyr himself to save us all the agony of speculating about his role. Possibly the most anti-Town thing you can do.

Post 83 is the real clincher. Some of you have pointed out that he's not making any sense and this is the response:

There is a reason I act like this. It is to prompt reactions out of people. I know I seem like I make no sense, I merely wish to get on with the game.

Very scummy attitude. Let's get on with it, he's anxious for Night 1 so he can kill somebody. Doesn't bother to explain anything that didn't make sense, or give any suspicions or reasons for votes. Ever.

Then this little gem in Post 84:

Also, what I mean when I said, me being suspected and lynched would help in uncovering scum, is that it would eliminate me as a suspect, thus narrowing down the number of people in the game who could be scum.

Everyone who responded to this gave him a pat on the head and said "That's a good little newbie." I don't buy it. If he was a Town newbie he'd give suspicions when asked instead of evading. I don't doubt he's a newbie, but I think he's a mafia newbie.

Quite possibly my personal favorite was Post 151 when he told Simenon

There have been many posts that have appeared to be scummy, but it is no use to use them all.

Of course he doesn't list all these posts he has found scummy. He hasn't ever named one, actually. Instead, he proceeds to lecture Simenon for throwing out any and all suspicions. And the thing is... sharing all suspicions is very pro-Town and makes it obvious you have nothing to hide. Doing the exact opposite like Daxam has is anti-Town.

I do have one question for Adam regarding Post 244:

Post 181- yagamilight looks townie in this post, but has seemed a little sketch in others. I believe that him and Daxam are on different sides; one is scum, the other is town.

Adam, can you please explain why you think one is scum, the other is town? I don't disagree with you, but I didn't see anything to back this up. It's very possible I missed something so let me know what made you think that.

I need to read through again looking more closely at BananaHand, but at this point I'm a lot more suspicious of Daxam, so he gets my vote.

[Setael]

I don't blame you for not being able to come up with a reasonable defense, Daxam. It's something that's pretty straightforward for Town but really tough for mafia. I'm convinced you're mafia, so I'm not going to yell at you for being so anti-Town.

[Setael]

I don't blame you for not being able to come up with a reasonable defense, Daxam. It's something that's pretty straightforward for Town but really tough for mafia. I'm convinced you're mafia, so I'm not going to yell at you for being so anti-Town.

NOW I'd like to yell at him for being so anti-Town.

[Setael]

Well, I've reread twice now since Daxam was lynched. Though I mostly blame Daxam for being so anti-Town, I was very sure about him so I don't trust my instincts as much anymore. The first read-through all I really came up with is that I'm not sure I believe Faeren's doc claim. The second read-through I scored any post I felt was pro-Town or pro-Scum. These are the results:

FaerieLord

Post 89 -1; 92 - 1; 97 – 1; 113 -1; 161 -1; 182 -1; 266 +1; 310 -1; 328 -1

GRAND TOTAL: -7

Haschel Cedricson

Post 64 -1; Post 75 -1; 104 -1; 107 -1; 111 -1; 296 -1; 319 -1; 329 -1

GRAND TOTAL: -8

heatherlou

– Post 82 -1; 134 -1; 138 +1; 264 -1; 280 -1; 348 -1

GRAND TOTAL -4

Nanosauromo

Post 54 -1; Post 88 +1

GRAND TOTAL: 0

Samruc

106 +1; 110 +1; 196 +1; 289 +1

GRAND TOTAL +4

YagamiLight

Post 53 +1; Post 65 +1; Post 87 +1; 100 +1; 137 +1; 159 +1; 239 +1

GRAND TOTAL +7

Haschel Cedricson wins first place, but FaerieLord is a close second.

vote: Haschel Cedricson

Is there any way to confirm Faeren? I can't think of anything that would work, but maybe someone who has played longer knows of something. I guess we don't have to worry about this until he lives through a few more nights, in which case I'd start getting really suspicious.

[Setael]

Mostly because of HandBanana's posts - after the reread I was feeling like I inadvertently derailed a pretty good wagon. Definitely not strong enough doubt that I'd vote you.

[Setael]

I can understand Samruc doubting Faeren after a re-read because the same thing happened to me. However, I don't think it's wise to lynch him at this point because the mafia could've very well intentionally kept him alive assuming we'd say "FLOC would have been lynched D1 if not for this claim" and "If he really was the doc the mafia would've killed him last night" and hoping we'd waste a day lynch on him.

I think it's worth at least waiting to see if he survives another night or two, just in case he really is the doctor. Especially since we have claimed roles that can use the protection.

[Setael]

I very much doubt that you could get enough support for a lynch of the claimed doc today seeing as how Power roles have been claimed, so I think it is pointless to waste your vote on FLOC right now. I'm definitely not going to trust his claim 100% but I also think it'd be crazy to lynch him right away. If he is not the doc, there probably is one who doesn't want to out himself yet (very wisely) so I think we should just agree that FLOC might be lying, but that we can't afford to lynch him right now just in case he is telling the truth.

So the question to ask is, who is your 2nd suspect, regardless of how far down? What do you think of Haschel and FaerieLord?

[Setael]

That's really not very helpful FLOC. There's only one vote on you, so no need to talk as though you're -1. What WOULD be helpful is some info on who you find suspicious.

[Setael]

Uh, no. Is there a reason Samruc refuses to provide suspicions about anyone besides the claimed doc?

[Setael]

I hadn't thought much about nanosaurumo since he hasn't really been present lately. His last post (383) was pretty unhelpful. Basically admitted to lurking and not bothering to scum hunt. It's not much, but it's a lot more solid than anything my point tally gave me.

Unvote; vote nanosaurumo

[Setael]

2 votes is hardly a runaway wagon that will inevitably lead to a speed lynch. Simenon didn't even vote for Nano, though he did make a good case.

This didn't exactly feel like a Townie reaction:

Are you saying that it's scummy that A: You may have caused a speedlynch on me or B: That Faerie Lord is pointing this out?

If it's B, that seems like you're saying that it's a bad idea to point out the flaws in others, unless it's you doing it.

[Setael]

It's hardly following blindly to think he made a good case and agree with it. The best I had to go on before was number of scummy seeming posts. I don't really have a clear-cut case on anyone, and neither does anyone else. The points Simenon brought up about nano were a good case, and a better reason for a vote than what I had on Haschel.

[Setael]

What do you call a black man flying a plane?


....



A pilot, you racist!

[Setael]

Haschel, you owe me 10 minutes of my life back.

[Setael]

If a deadline occurs, the player with the most votes will be lynched. If two or more players are tied for the most votes at the deadline, no lynch will occur.

Two days to deadline and I think it's slow enough around here that it's not going to be revoked. After re-reading the thread, I'm supportive of either a Nano or Faerie Lord lynch, so if we're at a tie at 8 a.m. EDT Wednesday, I'll switch my vote to ensure one of them is lynched. That's 5 a.m. my time.... that bites.

[Setael]

Gotcha.

[Setael]

My IRL circumstances have changed and I am not going to be able to get online Thursday morning right before the deadline. It's looking like it won't matter anyway, since Nano is pulling into the lead.

[Setael]

Unvote; vote: FaerieLord

Simenon, are you saying you think I'm scum? If so, could you please give a reason?

[Setael]

With all the roles that have been claimed, we've got it narrowed down as to who scum could be. Here is everyone with their claimed roles:

MASON - Simenon
MASON - The Central Scrutinizer
DOC - Faeren Lord of Carlisle
COP - Nanosauromo

I will take me out of the list since I'm not scum, and I'm also going to take Samruc out since I'm fairly confident he's Town. That leaves as potential scum:

Haschel Cedricson
heatherlou
FaerieLord
YagamiLight

I think heatherlou is more likely scum over Yagami, but not sure at all. I'd be happy with a Faerie or Haschel lynch so I'll keep my vote where it is.

Question. Does a mini ALWAYS have a cop and a doc or is it possible those roles didn't exist in the first place, leaving scum safe to claim them without being counter claimed?

[Setael]

Revoke: deadline

I need to reread. See if I can find anything to back up or negate my gut FaerieLord - Haschel - heather scum group.

[Setael]

And to the person speculating the whole mafia group...you need to teach me this. Day 2 catching 3 mafia!

I hardly think I know exactly who the 3 mafia are so your sarcasm is going to waste here. I do have a good idea of who they are assuming all the claims are true. I am perfectly aware of the fact that my assumptions might be incorrect and I'll keep that in mind as the game goes on. For now, I haven't seen anything that would convince me that FL isn't mafia.

[Setael]

Haschel, why did you unvote FaerieLord? And why have you said nothing since? I would be interested to hear your thoughts on him and his impending demise.

[Setael]

That's all you're going to contribute?

[Setael]

I'd like to say "me" so I can be confirmed Town, but it'd be more helpful for you to hit a mafia, so I would suggest either Haschel or heatherlou since I think they're likely scum.

[Setael]

You ranked high on my scumdar during my initial read and then that combined with both masons feeling you are scum earned my initial vote. Your unhelpfulness and unwillingness to scumhunt is the main reason I'm keeping my vote on you. If you were pro-Town, you'd at least present a case on someone else and give us a reason to vote someone else. This is why we all agreed to repeal the deadline and then you did nothing with the extra time.

We need to decide where to go once and for all, since the deadline is rapidly approaching. If everyone could form an opinion everything would be nice and dandy.

I notice you never did this yourself. The closest you came was:

I suspect Haschel and Setael

And I shall leave my suspicions Chamber-esque. (So yes, I'm not trying to convince you. I'm just showing you I have opinions )

You have never once presented a decent case on anyone. Since the random vote stage ended, you have never even voted anyone. Do you have NO suspicions or are you just not bothering to tell us about the ones you have? If you still suspect Haschel and myself, please give reasons. This can only help the Town once we find out your alignment. In fact, I would very much like to hear why you think Haschel is scum since he is one of the few likely scums.

[Setael]

Faerie, you've had since the deadline was extended to present some kind of case on someone else. The fact that you won't even post your suspicions now really makes it seem as though you don't want the Town to have any information once you come up scum.

If you are Town, you would've told us why you are suspicious of me and Haschel. It seems the only possibility is that you are scum, and that is why you continue to do absolutely nothing pro-Town.

In other news, I've been thinking on this awhile, and I think I need to claim. I wasn't sure if this is wise because I think it's rather unorthidox, and many of you might think it's not wise, but this is a special exception having this many power roles outed. If I am NK'd, my night vig kill will still go through which worst case scenario would be a 1 for 1 trade, so I think claiming is the most pro-Town thing to do. My reasons are:

1) I don’t want the cop to waste an investigation on me

2) If there is a Town RB I don't want them to waste their RB on me.

3) I don’t want the cop to waste an investigation on the person I plan to vig.

4) If I say who I plan to vig, we have the potential to find out about 2 scum tonight, whereas if I don't, the cop and I could overlap.

5) With so many power roles claimed, it is unlikely the mafia or any possible scum RB’s will bother wasting their night action on me. If they do, you will know that the person I was going to vig is mafia since the only way they would choose to stop me instead of the cop or doc is if I'm targetting mafia.

6) If they do choose to target me in order to prevent my vig kill, it is more helpful for the town for me to be killed and the cop to survive until tomorrow to provide his results, or for the doc to survive to protect, or for the masons to survive because they are confirmed. As I see it, a NK of me would actually be helpful for town since it protects a more useful power role.

So, obviously I'm a one-shot night Town vigilante. Tonight I plan to kill Haschel. I'm pretty sure he and FL are scum buddies. Haschel, if you feel the need to claim, do so.

[Setael]

Three cheers for fast nights. I'm glad Haschel was mafia... I would've felt pretty sheepish if he turned up Town. I'll wait to find out who Nano investigated before I post. There's a pretty good chance he hit a mafia.

[Setael]

Nano's choice of investigation is highly suspect. Simenon was confirmed mason by virtue of both he and his mason buddy claiming. There's no way 2 scum would endanger themselves by claiming mason like that. If one of them died, the other would go down too. It just defies understanding that you would investigate simenon... and makes me think you might be mafia and are lying to us. I also think you should've known that it was highly likely simenon would be the NK target, as the scum would expect the doc to protect you and sim had been more active than TCS. Another reason to NOT investigate simenon. So if this is the case, there is either no cop in this game, or there is a real cop who knows you are mafia and is waiting to figure out the third scum before busting you.

I suppose it is possible that you are some kind of cop/vig but if so I think you're a scum cop/vig.

Before this day ends, I'd like you to embed a code in one of your posts that says who you will be investigating. That way you can at least prove to us that you're not just picking the person who was NK'd as the person you "investigated."

[Setael]

Bold is me.

there is either no cop in this game, or there is a real cop who knows you are mafia and is waiting to figure out the third scum before busting you

And what would the "real cop" gain from waiting to bust me? If the "real cop" even exists, me being alive makes it less likely that he will get doc protection. Furthermore, he'd be letting a known (to him) scum live. If there were a "real cop," he would have busted me long before now. I am the real cop.

I totally disagree with your logic. Let's assume there is a real cop that has not yet claimed. They know that if they claim, they will have no way of proving to us that they are the real cop and they are therefore forcing the doc to choose between the 2 claimed cops. If he happens to choose wrong, the real cop could get NK'd. Also, if there is a real cop he may not believe FLOC's doc claim which would make him worry that there isn't a doc in this game at all - another reason to not claim. If he has been investigating and only getting innocent results on people, he might not claim just because his info isn't that helpful yet. If he hits on a mafia then he might claim in order to tell us but even so he will know we might not trust it until one of the cops is lynched, therefore proving the claim.

I suppose it is possible that you are some kind of cop/vig but if so I think you're a scum cop/vig.

What would be the point of having a scum cop/vig? If anyone I investigated was going to die anyway, and I was scum, wouldn't that just make me an SK?

I don't know. Is it possible that there are only 2 scum and one cop who thinks he is Town but is really scum who is the only one who can make NKs? And whoever he targets to investigate dies. Or maybe the cop really is Town but as long as the cop investigates someone, that is the person that dies and it overrules scum's NK... and scum NKs only go through if the cop doesn't investigate someone. Maybe nocmen is more creative than you're giving him credit for. This is a very power role heavy game - there's likely something to offset things a little in the mafia's favor. Either that, or some of the power roles that have been claimed are actually scum. I recognize that you may very well just be a normal cop. I just don't understand why you would possibly have investigated Simenon, and I am therefore suspicious of you.

Before this day ends, I'd like you to embed a code in one of your posts that says who you will be investigating. That way you can at least prove to us that you're not just picking the person who was NK'd as the person you "investigated."

You're asking me to breadcrumb? Fine, I have no problems with that. However, keep in mind that the scum may find and decipher the code before they send in their night choice.

I'm sure you could find a way to make it impossible for them to decipher it. Do a really complicated one. Give us a number sequence that in some way relates to letters in your posts but that would be impossible for scum to find out. Also, do it right before this day ends to give them less time to try. If you make it obvious enough for scum to figure out, I will be even more sure you are scum. There are plenty of things you can do that scum wouldn't be able to figure out, so do a good one. TCS brought up that if you are scum, you could just NK the person you breadcrumb you're going to investigate. My thought was if you breadcrumb Samruc for example, and then TCS ends up being the one NK'd and you tell us Samruc's alignment, I would be more inclined to believe you are the cop. If you just investigate the person who dies again, something fishy is going on.

"Real cop," if you're out there, go ahead and counterclaim. We'll see who turns up as scum first.

This sounded scummy. If they haven't claimed yet, there is a reason for it.

Vote: Setael

I don't like this post at all. Investigating Simenon looks a stupid move in light of the nightkill (that nano presumably didn't know of), and because both masons claimed I wouldn't have done it were I cop. However, I don't think it's a scum tell. I just think it was a bad choice. I'm willing to give the uncountered cop another day.

Did I say I wanted to lynch him? No. Did I even vote for him? No. I do not think we should lynch him, but I think we should consider all the possibilities, including the fact that he might be scum.

Your "code" plan is ridiculous. If he's scum, he can nightkill whoever he says he plans to investigate. Or worse, scum can nightkill the person he plans to investigate, making that plan useless.
Covered this. He wouldn't give us the key to the code until after the next day dawns of course, so scum wouldn't know who he plans to investigate.

I didn't like your presence on the lynching wagon yesterday, and I don't like this plan you have now.

Wow. So... you think scum killed one of their own, then? How do you explain Haschel's death if I am scum?

[Setael]

Though I think they were confirmed before you ever investigated them by virtue of the fact that 2 scum wouldn't endanger themselves like that, I can see the good behind investigating a mason to be sure they're both telling the truth. However, I still think it's pointless when A) There's a good chance one of those masons are going to be NK'd so why not wait and let that be the way they are confirmed rather than wasting an investigation on it. B) It was narrowed down quite well as to who could be scum. A real cop would've been much more motivated to investigate either heatherlou, yagami or samruc. I even claimed my role and who I was going to night vig in order to narrow it down even further. You can understand my frustration when nano's choice for investigation made my claim pointless. Evidently it didn't even serve to prove that I'm the Town vig since TCS is voting me anyway, and he's our only truly confirmed Townie.

About Setael's plan, that wouldn't help solve wether he is scum or not because like TCS said, the scum could find it if he were telling the truth, and NK the person

I don't understand this mindset.

Here's a code: Hidden in it is one of your names. Try to figure it out. I promise you won't be able to until I give you the key.

24 14 68 61 34 12 46 92 63 42 13


In fact, in case any of you were going to bother trying to crack it, don't even waste your time because there's no way you'd figure it out this century and here's why: It's taken from Akbar's posts in the game Mafia vs. Wolves. You think any of the scum would've EVER figured that out? NOPE. The first number corresponds to the post and the second number corresponds to the letter. Only the first seven are needed. The rest are extras to camouflage.

P.S. After Yagami's last post, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

vote: Yagami

[Setael]

TCS you aren't answering my question. Please reconcile the NK of Haschel if I am scum. Do you think scum killed one of their own?

[Setael]

Question, though: Why hasn't Mafia killed FLoC if he IS the real doctor? (I hadn't thought of this before -- but why kill a Mason at all? Killing a Mason confirms another townie, hardly the smartest move for scum, I'd think.)

Very good point. Why would mafia essentially give us a confirmed townie, when we may have ended up wasting a lynch on a mason to find out if they were telling the truth or not? It would've been more to their advantage to target me, knowing I was going to vig Haschel and therefore be confirmed Town. It would've also made more sense for them to target the doc. This makes me think even more that either FLOC or Nano is lying. Either that or Nano kills whoever he investigates (overruling the scum's NK), either knowingly or unknowingly. Is that too far fetched to be possible? I haven't played long enough to know if that is possible or totally ridiculous.

I think Bookitty's logic makes more sense than Yagami's in these last posts. I still think a Yagami lynch is the best play for today.

[Setael]

Frankly, because I am so unsure of Nano's claim and things just aren't adding up, I would prefer the doc protect TCS or me. Keep 'em guessing of course, but I do not agree with an automatic Nano protect.

[Setael]

There could be 2 scum and an SK left, but there's probably only 2 actual scums.

[Setael]

Nano's last post only made me doubt his claim even more. It looks like he posted that so he can say tomorrow that he investigated me and I came up innocent. Noone hammer Yagami until he claims. There's a chance we have a real cop who's being quiet to avoid a NK.

[Setael]

Bookitty, there's nothing I can really say to change minds. I can not claim doc because that would be lying, I'm just vanlla. Nanos voted me because he thinks we need to vote an unclaimed, and I hadn't posted but once in a while. You posted saying the same thing, but adding Samruc's input and logic is less scummy, but you mention nothing about me really. Setael's vote is most specific, but still doesn't give enough to defend, h says he didn't like my last post, but says nothing else about it. Basically, I can't defend myself when nothing is given in an understandable way.

Please don’t be as unhelpful as FL was. If you are Town, don’t just say you have nothing to defend against. Give us your scum list. Tell us who you are suspicious of and present a case on someone.

Yes, I think it's a safe assumption. But TCS was right - with two mafia left, we can afford one mislynch, and would thus autowin (if all claims are true) by lynching the remaining three players.

I find it odd that samruc is assuming all the claims are true

Though I'm still suspicious of nano, I don't think he should be lynched today. Yagami is a better choice.

[Setael]

Yagami isn't trying very hard to live. If he was Town, he would believe with full conviction that there are 2 scums among that scum list (probably nano and samruc since they're #1 and #2). Instead he says he'd prefer samruc to live and that he won't present a case on nano because he's the claimed cop. If he was Town, he'd be highly motivated to present a case on both Nano and samruc since not doing so = he's probably going to get lynched.

His unwillingness to prevent a case doesn't feel pro-Town. It feels like scum that has given up.

[Setael]

I think there are 2 options for Yagami not finding anyone suspicious.

1) He is scum and it is more helpful for him to be lynched than his scum buddy, because it's someone who has role claimed without being countered and is therefore less likely to be lynched.

2) He is town and really isn't suspicious of anyone.

I'm leaning toward #1. If I'm wrong and it's #2 then I think his reread & analysis will make that evident. Either way, anything he posts will be more helpful than saying he doesn't want anyone lynched.

I would like to wait and hear what YagamiLight has to say. I don't think that could be a bad thing for town.

I would like Samruc to present his case against FLoC. I've been open about my doubts of both the doctor and the cop claims and I would like a different perspective on the situation.

I would like Nanosauromo to confirm to us that he isn't going to waste his investigation on TCS or Setael when we eventually go to night.

I agree.

[Setael]

Side note, I like his joke in post 448, I laugh every time

No matter how many times I tell you I'm a girl (in every game we're in together) you just refuse to use the right pronouns. I'll forgive you because you thought my joke was funny.

P.S. Going camping, no internet for 24 hours.

[Setael]

There is another reason that would motivate mafia to not NK the doc. If nano is scum, the doc is no threat to the mafia because the doc will likely be protecting the claimed cop. Therefore, it would make more sense to take out a mason and leave the doc alive. As long as nano is alive, they can fairly safely NK other confirmed townies, knowing the doc will protect the cop. And, like Bookitty said, there's always a chance we'll mislynch the doc since he's not getting NK'd, but we wouldn't likely mislynch the confirmed townie they are able to NK instead. Especially since we have a few confirmed townies, I would suggest that FLoC think twice about who he protects tonight, rather than automatically protecting the cop. At least that way you keep 'em guessing.

[Setael]

hand banana Faeren Lord of Carlisle
heatherlou Bookitty
Inarticulation Adam the Amazing The Central Scrutinizer
lunalovegood72107 Setael
Nanosauromo
Samruc
YagamiLight


Dead 5/12:
Daxam , Townie, Lynched Day 1
Haut Boy IH, Townie, Killed Night 1
FaerieLord, Town Roleblocker, Lynched Day2
Haschel Cedricson, Mafia Goon, Killed Night 2
Simenon,Town Mason, Killed Night 2


I thought of another reason to doubt nano's claim, and maybe FLoC's as well, but definitely nano's. One of my games just ended that had 3 masons as the ONLY power roles along with 3 mafia, and the Town won. In this game we have as Town power roles:

2 masons
Town Roleblocker
Town Vig
Doc
Cop

That's a total of 6 power roles in a 12 person game. I haven't finished many games, but based on the one that just ended, this is highly unlikely. Why would things be SO heavily balanced toward the Town? If all the claims are accurate, there is likely more than 3 mafia. Either that or there's an SK who hasn't killed yet (maybe a 1-shot?) More likely, at least one of the claims is false.

Nano was the last one to claim. At the time he claimed cop, 3 of the power roles were already claimed. In his position, I think scum would feel safe claiming, under the assumption there won't be a cop if there are 2 masons.

So if yagami is lynched, if he comes up town and either myself or TCS is NK'd we learn nothing. Let's say nano says he investigated FLoC and he came up Town. We're in the exact same place we are now, only a lot closer to lylo with the possibility of more scum than we were assuming.

Any thoughts?

[Setael]

It looks like Haschel had no superpower, so the others may have power roles, but at least one of them didn't.

As for your FLoC case, I thought this was a good point:

I doubt your claim because you are spreading suspicions in all directions without making a single case yourself.

And I'd like FLoC to answer this question:

FLoC, did/do you believe the cop claim?

I also agree with this:

I think our doc-FLoC has done pretty much nothing to deserve getting away as easily as he does, especially when most other people are contributing the way they do.

I definitely think either nano or FLoC is lying, but I don't know if it's wise to lynch one of them since the case for not believing nano's claim is just as good.

I'd really like TCS's input.

[Setael]

Bookitty makes a good point - Nano's current vote on Yagami could be trying to distance in order to make up for earlier buddying up. I can definitely see Yagami-Nano as a scum pair.

I'm not sure about samruc. If Nano is scum with samruc, it makes sense that samruc would go after FLoC the way he has. If we are to realize later on that one of the claimed power roles has to be false (due to mislynches leading to process of elimination), he would be motivated to have been supporting a lynch of FLoC all along so he could push it that way and protect Nano. Granted, this is coming from my assumption that Nano is much more likely to be scum than FLoC.

If Bookitty is scum, then she is very good, as she has made very pro-Town seeming, logical arguments.

[Setael]

The only way that will benefit the Town is if you are scum. At this point, the only one who really doubts your claim is samruc. No one else is willing to vote you. So if you come up Town, we're in the exact same place only scum has NK'd one of our more confirmed Townies.

Plus, if you and nano are both scum then obviously he can just say you came up Town. If he's scum and you're Town, he'll say you came up Town or if he says you came up scum and we mislynch you, they get another NK before we can take down nano. I believe FLoC over nano, so it would essentially be a wasted investigation imo.

Yagami doesn't seem to be fighting very hard. If he were town, I think he'd be more actively trying to convince us to take out someone else. If he's scum, it makes sense that he's not presenting a solid case on anyone else since he's probably today's lynch and we can then use it against the scums.

I still think Yagami is the play for today.

[Setael]

This game is stagnating. If scum win, it's because we all got too bored to care what happened.

[Setael]

Also, this isn't boring for me.

So... I don't know if it's a faux pas to read into mod statements, but this is what I gleaned from this statement. I think if nocmen were reading a game where all power roles were claimed and all we have to do is decide which of the 3 unclaimed roles are the 2 scums, that would be quite boring. However, if some of our claimed roles are scum, this game would not be boring for a mod to read. It would actually be quite interesting. So in conclusion, nocmen's statement is just one more reason I think nano is actually scum and maybe even FLoC, but nano I'm more confident about. Still not willing to vote him today in case I'm wrong, but maybe tomorrow.

[Setael]

Mm hmmmm.

[Setael]

Boo, who do you think Nano's partner would be then?

[Setael]

Well... my question is - if you think it's samruc and nano, why wouldn't you vote samruc instead of nano? It seems to me the more pro Town thing to do is to leave nano in case we're wrong and he really is a cop and try to take out his partner instead...

[Setael]

I don't disagree that at least one of either the doc or cop is lying. Maybe even both. The questions I don't have accurate answers to are: What motivation would scum have to kill one of the masons over the doc? and.... Why would nano investigate Simenon? The reasons given for both are crap in my opinion.

However, rather than lynch either of them I think we should take one more night to get the cop's investigation and see if the doc is NK'd. We then lynch nano to either confirm the person he investigated or find out he's lying. If he does not investigate one of the three unclaimed, we lynch him.

I think the most likely scenario is that Yagami is scum along with nano. Yagami was scum in a game I was in that recently ended and he did this same thing - disappear after a half hearted effort to not get lynched. If he was Town, I would like to hope he would be trying harder to scum hunt.

I still say we lynch Yagami and then depending on his alignment, or maybe regardless, lynch one of the claimed roles tomorrow.

I reiterate that I think FLoC should protect either TCS or me. At least keep 'em guessing. We are going to lynch nano tomorrow anyway so the mafia will save us the trouble if they do it for us.

[Setael]

@Yagami: so if you think there's one scum in the unclaimed it has to be you, boo or samruc. You've said you're pretty sure boo is town. you're willing to follow samruc's plan which seems to mean you're assuming he's town. That sort of leaves you as the scum, doesn't it?

If you aren't scum, do you think it's samruc or boo? If you think it's samruc... why are you wanting to go along with his plan?

[Setael]

Mod: Can we get a prod on TCS?

I would like his input before anyone hammers.

[Setael]

Wow. That was quite the unnecessary overdefensiveness with the insistence that you're not being silent...

[Setael]

Reading your post again, I can see you were not being serious. (Or at least there's a good chance of it - too overdefensive to be defensive or something).

I don't have any criticism to make of your arguments or I'd have made it already. As I've said, I think your posts have all been really logical and pro-town and I'd be floored if you came up scum.

It'll be nice to get insight from whoever replaces TCS, since he is confirmed Town and we'll know he's not trying to deceive us. TCS really hasn't contributed much, so I'm excited he's getting replaced.

[Setael]

Samruc, I think I've made it clear that of the 2 claims I think nano is more likely the one lying so you and I don't exactly see eye to eye on that. I have also made it clear that I think anyone who believes one of the claims is lying and one of the unclaimed is lying should first target their unclaimed suspect, just in case they're wrong about the claimed suspect.

[Setael]

Yeah, I say hammer him. If TCS is NK'd we can proceed with the game. If not, we'll have to wait for his replacement before tomorrow can dawn. I would recommend the doc not protect TCS but that's just one li'l girl's opinion.

[Setael]

Interesting. For how much you seem to think FLoC is lying, that last post really made it look like you think he's a real doc.

[Setael]

I would be willing. Nocmen, let me know.

[Setael]

Yay town! We should've listened to samruc. Who knew?! I have never been more relieved than when Haschel came up scum. I wanted to hug him. There were so many power roles claimed that I wasn't worried about a NK, and Simenon kept stating suspicion of me so I knew I needed to clear myself before he made a good case on me and got me mislynched (see how much I fear you Simenon?)

If someone besides Bookitty had replaced in, the town very well could've lost. We all wanted to suspect the unclaimeds, but her entrance into the game was SO town I never would've voted her and it would've been virtually impossible for anyone to build a case against her. I can think of about 25 players (myself included) who would've gotten themselves lynched in her place. This goes for pete d as well. You both get the "Most Preferred Replacement" award.

Fun game. This made my day.