Open 46 - Strawberry (Game Over!), before 508

[Zeppo]

Vote: Cornelius

for his strange not-quite-a-claim thingy

[Zeppo]

Are we quite done being silly yet or does someone have more?

[Zeppo]

Have you got a link to the other game which you are playing with Max so I can read this (it is allowed to read up on players in other games, right?). I find it a little suspicious that he thinks he's sussed out two mafia by page 2 so maybe seeing his play style would be useful.

[Zeppo]

Figured out

[Zeppo]

Hey guys, Corn is at -2. It's page 3, you hammer you die. We need info out of today, give Corn time to show us his teammates.

Or to actually prove his innocence. Although he is quickly beginning to look more scummy to me I don't want to do anything

too

rash. After all, this is only page 4

But yeah. If you want my unvote you need to do some serious justifying please corn.

Corn, gives us a list of your suspicions and tell us who you find is most suspicious, who you think is most likely to be town and all that jazz. And don't give me some BS about it only being page 4.

I agree.

[Zeppo]

Corn I'd really like a post from you right about now.

[Zeppo]

I'm defensive? Uh....ok?

Every time one person mentions even the possibility of you being scum, you address it directly almost immediately. It is definitely defensive. That can be kinda scummy, but it can also be hyperactive posting. I'm currently of the opinion that its the latter, and I'm not going to complain about posting a lot. The accusation isn't exactly out of the blue, though.

QFT. Although obviously scum can get very defensive if people start pointing fingers at them, I think it is the most natural thing in the game for a townie who is accused of being scum to be quick to defend himself. I know I would.

I'm reasonably confident Corn is scum, as confident as I could be at this stage in the game. I don't mind pumping corn for information but he's been very tight lipped so far, on the last page he only had a couple of posts and they were only a few lines long. If we don't get something of a mega-post from Corn soon, either to soothe my fears of him or to give us more information about his scumbuddies, I will start pressing for a lynch on him.

[Zeppo]

I still think that d3sisted is scum.

I can't tell if you're being serious here. I mean, your vote on d3sisted was literally the first post of the game (bar the mod's) and you're now voting Boing. If you're not joking can you please present a case against him?

[Zeppo]

Corn I'd really like a post from you right about now.

Ok sorry for the delay....
Ok, my "analysis": Right now my main suspicion is White. As the crusade leader against me, he seems fairly eager for a lynch. Also his "you hammer you die" statement seems a little too obvious of a cover-up. Why wouldn't you want people to quick-lynch, as that can provide info on who's mafia?

You're halfway to a lynch and this is the best you can come up with? It's not even three lines long and you don't defend your actions at all, just smear White. I know people have different play styles but I'd rather hear you say why I

shouldn't

be voting for you rather than why I should be voting for someone else.

[Zeppo]

I will wait to see what the Corn defense is going to be and maybe then I will put the -1 on him. Still

FoS: Cornelius

.

If it ever comes

[Zeppo]

I don't think that 129 is too hasty at all.

[*]

If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread.

Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate - don’t leave us hanging.

I get tired of having day 1 drag on and on just because someone is either a) not making time for the game or, more likely in this case I think, b) lying low to let the suspicion on them drop by making it look like they can't make time for the game. I think corn should post or hang.

[Zeppo]

Can you clarify what you mean by that? Just that Cornelius is most likely to be genuinely too busy to post to defend himself rather than lying low?

[Zeppo]

So... you think Corn is most likely scum too?

[Zeppo]

Ok, you guys want me to explain myself, and why you shouldn't vote for me? Here it is: I am a townie. Don't know what else to say besides that. Any sort of rationalization or "explanation" I come up with can be interpreted however people want.

Claiming vanilla townie (I assume this was what was meant by townie) is always fairly redundant. I wouldn't blame Corn for claiming it now since in an open game such as this it would be suicide for anyone but the cop to claim to be a cop, but it doesn't make the vanilla claim any less redundant.

Also, I love how people are like "your suspicion of White is OMGUS! His action of telling people not to quick-lynch you was a townie action! Mafia wouldn't do that!" As if a mafia player has never, ever, in the history of the game, made a move that appears pro-town, in order to avoid suspicion. Are you telling me this is impossible? You guys keep saying "mafia like quick-lynches!!" So what if <gasp> a mafia member acted like they didn't want a quick-lynch, in order to appear like a townie? Not that much of a stretch, guys.

We could sit here and play WIFOM until the cows come home.

[Zeppo]

No kidding. What a shocker. I thought it would be you or Max, since they have had prominent roles in this game.

Why does this sound insincere?

QFT. At a first read this set of some scum-alarms in my head. However on a reread I think he may be insinuating that the fact you and max haven't been bumped off in the night point to the fact you are scum.

A couple of other things have made me slightly suspicious of you actually, White. Firstly that you were quite aggressive against Corn yesterday (but then again so was I, I suppose) and your post 170, barely into day 2 and already you have a vote out there.

However

two things stop me thinking that you are scum. Firstly is that yesterday I didn't get any scum vibes of you. In fact I didn't really get scum vibes of anyone (other than Corn, obviously) this leads me to think that the scum in this game are probably the lurkers. But I will keep my eye on you just in case!

[Zeppo]

vote: competentpsycho

I realy don't have any other suspitions but him right now.

Care to share why you are voting for him?

[Zeppo]

Obviously I can't be scum in every game so I just take it that i'm pesky.

Just so you know, trusting someone that you don't have a read on is almost as bad as trusting someone you have a scum read on. Don't trust someone ever in this game. But if you are going to trust someone, trust someone you're getting townie vibes from. Not an unreadable.

Surely this means we can't trust you! So we should ignore that post. Which means that we can trust you! So we shouldn't ignore that post. Which means....

In addition, from your perspective, Max, that if anyone goes and tries to get me lynched you'll see them as scum, that is exactly why scum would want to nk me. So that they can have me dead without the suspicion of a lynch.

Being serious now, I didn't like this post. I really don't think that a townie needs to post saying "anyone trying to lynch me is automatically scum." And of course if you were right (which I don't think you are), it just begs the question of why didn't the scum night kill you?

[Zeppo]

I've just skim-read this last page. I'm meant to be doing my homework so I'll do a thorough reread afterwards and make a proper post then. In the mean time can someone explain to me what bread crumbing means as there was nothing about it in the wiki.

[Zeppo]

Ok, so last game I played I was scum with White. He acted EXACTLY the same as he is now, which made me suspicious of him. I then went and searched out his other games and it seems he acts this way when scum and not as townie. Specifically, I have seen the giving an ultimatum before rather than hammering in the hopes that someone else will hammer to take suspicion off of him.

FOS: White

Since we need 6 votes to lynch and there is only 7 townies left... that means we basically need 6 of 7 townies to vote on a scum, since I doubt any scum will vote for their scumbuddies, unless they are going to sacrifice one, but we would have to have a bandwagon on one to get them to do that anyway. We NEED to make sure we have the right guy this time.

See, to me this does sound like you're encouraging bandwagoning. By FoS'ing White but not voting for him you could be trying to start a bandwagon on White without looking too suspicious by casting the first vote.

Neraren is up on my scum list too since he is really lurking. My other suspicions lie on desisted mostly, followed by Max and skitzer. Zeppo seems a little suspicious but less than the others. Mr Mean seems on the fence leaning toward town for me. Boing and killerbob seem town to me (so far).

Notice that this post came before Max's one where he mentioned bread crumbing. What was it at this stage that made you suspicious of him? Because it seems to me like you might just be trying to push for a lynch on Max and using the bread crumbs post he made as an excuse.

In fact this whole paragraph is full of accusations without any justifications (against myself, against desisted, against Max, against skitzer and somewhat against Mr Mean). What had I done that you considered suspicious exactly?

The only accusation that was backed up was against Neraren because he was lurking. Boing and killerbob are lurking too but why do they seem town to you while Neranen ends up at the top of your list?

Asides from yourself there were 9 other players in the game at the point you made this post and you say are suspicious of

seven

other players (including Mr Mean). Seven out of nine! This really doesn't look right to me this looks very scummy.

Vote: competentpsycho

[Zeppo]

skitz,

zeppo

, neraren, max - Say something - you are not participating much at all - one post every now and then just tells us that you didn't die IRL. Please contribute more as lurking like this is anti-town since you are not helping. Boing, and Mean - you are close to this category as you were lurking earlier - stay in participation.

Day 2 started just before middnight on the 10th of this month. Since then I have posted
Twice on the 11th
Once on the 12th
Twice on the 14th

"One post every now and then"? I'm posting on average more than once a day and seriously could not participate in this game any more than I am, I have uni to study for, a girlfriend and a fencing team to captain. Frankly, I think you already guessed I am doing as much as I can and thought this would discredit me to the other players. Starting a smear campaign based not at all on my game play is the final straw for me. I had suspicions before but now you just stink of rattled scum. If you genuinely wanted to hear from me you would have said what it was you wanted me to tell you not just told me to post more.

[Zeppo]

Ok yes, my last post was an over-reaction. But to be honest I considered myself one of the larger contributers to the game. I was quite offended to be told to post more without being asked any specific questions. That coupled with my previous analysis of competentpsycho just convinces me that he is scum.

[Zeppo]

I honestly don't get this. I'm forced to vote for someone who I believe is scummy, and then everybody flares up because that was the wrong decision, so I unvote, and everybody gets mad at me again! What is the big deal.

Oh yeah, and

unvote.

I might as well not vote anymore, just listen and post random information. That's all that I can do without becoming suspicious...

If you start let people telling you what to do with your vote sooner or later you'll be manipulated by the scum. Vote for who you think is most likely mafia and tell us why.

[Zeppo]

think carefully and vote only when you are fairly certain that person is scum, or at least being very anti-town.

See, I disagree with this. Unless it puts someone at L-2 or worse I think voting is a good way to put pressure on someone. FoS doesn't have the same effect. You can always unvote.

[Zeppo]

Good idea. Let's lynch skitzer today, and we'll deal with Neraren or Mr. Mean tomorrow.

I've had a reread of both skitzer and Mr Mean which frankly didn't take very long.

Top of my scumlist is still competentpyscho (see my post 225). As things stand I'd be happy to vote for either skitzer or Mean if it came down to either lynch one of them or have a no-lynch. My main suspicion of skitzer comes from the fact he stuck up for Neraren so I'd at least want to hear from him before I draw any conclusions about anyone.

d3sisted, I don't know if your last post is just trying to apply pressure but it comes across as a little over eager. I think that any lynch at this stage would be premature.

[Zeppo]

Are you the cop?

Seriously, what did you expect psycho to say here?

Unvote, FoS: Mr. Mean

. I

still

want to hear from neranan before I plant a vote anywhere, although I will vote for him if I don't hear from him in the next few days.

[Zeppo]

I like your analysis Neraren and I agree with most of it. However you're not really putting your neck out there at all. Who are the prime suspects for you?

[Zeppo]

the reason I got into mafia is because of a friend of mine that plays on the SA forums.

What's his name on there?

Max,

Zeppo

, Neraren aren't talking much either, but they have been that way the whole game. The only person here I get big scum vibes from for this is Neraren since he said before that he was busy with school and that his tests are finished now, yet still posts only to defend himself. I have a noose with your name on it man. I also have a sharpie to rename it if you decide to start helping out here. Skitz's noose has his name woven into the rope, so there's almost no way of redeeming himself.

Oh for goodness sake! I got this on another game I'm playing as well. I've been posting pretty much everyday, yesterday was an exception because I was in bed all day. Gimme a break

back on topic - after a quick reread, I think the scum trio is:

skitz
Mr Mean
Neraren

Skitz has really damned himself in my eyes- he's cracked. I'm convinced Neraren is mafia also for lurking then popping up occasionally to try and prop up skitzer. Mr Mean I'm pretty on the fence about. I'm certainly not confident he's scum.

I'd rather

Vote: Neraren

than skitzer actually. I want skitzer about tomorrow and hope that he slips up again and reveals his final scum buddy.

[Zeppo]

True but as ever it relies on the cop guiding the town without getting himself killed, we have no doctor! As long as we know skitz is scum he's pretty impotent and it's just one more avenue to get information, especially if he keeps claiming to be innocent.

I didn't play mafia on SA but it was what made me look up this site.

[Zeppo]

white, max - almost 5 days since last post

The most recent post by max before that was on Wed 17th October. Perhaps he meant to post but forgot? Perhaps not. Does it really matter? Let's talk about something more important. For instance... good reasons not to lynch Neranen today?

[Zeppo]

Well that's the thing like I said. I do think skitz is a better case. Well the same case. I am 90% sure about both Neraren and skitzer (I would never go as far as to say I was 100% sure about someone without being a cop who has investigated) but like I said before I think we still have a shot at getting information about of skitzer if we keep him alive.

[Zeppo]

He first piques my suspicions in day 2. This is his first post on day two, all bolding is mine.

This??!??! This is the only argument you are going to put forth and then conlcluding saying he is the lynch for the day. This comment shows that maybe he is busy, lurking townie (which is bad - if this is you stop NOW), or mafia, but this as conclusive evidence that he is mafia is completely ignorant, especially if we can make a better case on someone else.

Kinda busy, last few weeks have been midterms. My last onee is due tomorrow though (Accursed online courses), so I should be around more starting soon.
Back to the topic at hand though, while I do appreciate the vote of confidence, do you want to maybe narrow your scope a little?

You've got a vote on skitzer and fingers on Mr. Mean, Max, and d3sisted. Don't you think you're casting your net a bit wide?

Very mild but still trying to draw suspicion away from skitzer. Really nothing on its own, but put it context with his next posts.

Hmmm, did Neraren disappear? Supposedly he has more free time now and was going to reread - seems to still be busy though, or lurking. Did you finish rereading Neraren?

Yep. Went through everything with a comb, though not exactly fine toothed. Unfortunately I dont see a lot I can add at this point.

I think competentpsycho and d3sisted are definitely not both scum, but there's a case to be made against either of them, and they're both vocal against the other, so its hard to tell. A White/Max team would not surprise me at this point, but nothing conclusive enough to make a case for. Boing I have absolutely no read on, so I'm going to have to go back and read looking for him specifically. I think Skitzer is probably town, because his quick analysis would have probably pointed a few more fingers if it was scum. See killerbob's analysis on page 11 as an example. Mr Mean seems kinda green but not especially scummy IMO. Zeppo hasn't said much that sets him apart from everyone else, but I couldn't say if that was because he's following everyone else's lead or just agreeing with other's logical assessments. Not going to hold it against someone for not being the first person to post an idea.

I think that's everyone. The only other thing is the night kill of a quiet townie, which it almost impossible to draw conclusions from. I'm going to look harder at everyone's interactions with Cornelius before he was lynched and see what I can get from that.I know I have a lot of posting to catch up on, so does anyone want an in depth analysis of anything in particular?

The bold bits here he announces semi-suspicions against everyone. This sitting on the fence seems scummy because it will allow him to hop on a bandwagon should one arise without sticking his neck out himself.

The only person he has an opinion on that isn't ambiguous is skitzer who he says seems pro town.

Otherwise, considering your join date I don't think you have enough general experience to draw this conclusion.

Just because I'm new here doesn't mean Im new to the game. I don't appreciate being completely dismissed with what is basically "STFU Noob". You're welcome to disagree with me, but that sort of thing is uncalled for.

That said, skitzer voted mostly through elimination. He was stating why he thought everyone else was town and/or had no read on them. I would think scum would me more of a "a few of you are suspicious, but XXX is the most scummy" seeing as they are eventually going to vote for all those people for a lynch assuming things go in their favor. I'm not saying Skitzer is completely off my suspicion list, just that he's not near the top.

Who are the prime suspects for you?

Right now I'm focusing on competentpsycho and d3sisted, because as I said I think one of them is probably scum. I seriously doubt they're both scum though, so I'm okay with poking both of them with sticks until one of them cracks.

Not as full on as before, but still sticking up for skitz.

Likewise, perhaps you can make a case against Mr Mean.

[Zeppo]

Apparently your ENTIRE "case" against me is that I don't agree with you, and I don't agree vocally. In your mind, is that seriously enough to warrant a lynch? I mean, if skitz were to cardflip as scum, going back and seeing I stuck up for him, that'd be one thing. It'd be wrong, but I could see the logic there. Me disagreeing with your completely unproven theory, that's my right and is the basis for all discussion in this game. Someone says something, people agree and disagree. Voting for me because I disagree with you is, quite frankly, an anti-town move.

No no no no NO. It's just frustrating to play when people so blatantly disregard what I have written, though I expect you're doing it deliberately. Where did I say I was voting on you because you're disagreeing with me? My case is I believe you're scum which I hardly expect you to agree with. I believe you're scum because I am convinced skitz is scum. Seriously, go back and read his posts over the last few pages, can you honestly defend that? And since the beginning all you have done is defend him and subtly try and move suspicion away from him.

How else are you disagreeing with me? By voting competentpyscho? I still have suspicions of him myself, of course I do I have suspicions about everyone in the game except myself. I stated some of those suspicions earlier. I am far less suspicious of him now but sure, he

might

be scum bussing his partner skitzer. I don't know he's not so if you want to put pressure on him by voting for him and see if something slips out or not then please, go ahead and do so you won't find any objections from me.

[Zeppo]

I'm still not quite sure why others aren't as convinced as I am about Neraren but nevermind. Skitz is a fine lynch for the day by me as well. Before I vote though I'd like to see a little more detailed post by deathsauce mostly to get a bead on him for tomorrow.

[Zeppo]

^^ I agree.

Vote: skitzer

, assuming he does turn up scum let's have a look at Mean or Neraren tomorrow.

[Zeppo]

That's a little vague Max, quote or give post numbers for specific things you want him to reply to.

[Zeppo]

See cp's post 366. That's quite a solid case right there and he was right about skitz so I have more confidence about his suspicions against you. Plus if the scum didn't see him as a threat they would probably have offed him in the night so that suggest to me that he was barking up the right tree.

Vote: Mr Mean

[Zeppo]

3) d3, I fail to see how my vote is opportunistic. It should have been obvious that I was going to go after Mr. Mean today. I would agree that Boing's vote is horrible, however.

So why unvote?

[Zeppo]

I'd hardly call my vote oppurtunistic. Well slightly I don't know. Yes I'd rather be lynching Neraren today but it was pretty well covered yesterday that Mr Mean would be the obvious lynch should skitzer turn up scum. At this stage I think we need to hear reasons not to lynch him. I don't think he's cop, he seemed yesterday like he was fishing to find who was.

[Zeppo]

Can we please get prods on max, killerbob and anyone else I missed who hasn't posted today.

[Zeppo]

Okay max did post sorry.

[Zeppo]

3) I see your point, but you should realy be going after d3. It may seem strabge for me to say that, but you have to trust me on this one. I belive that d3 is scum.

Whelp, I don't quite like voting this soon when there's so much at stake but this really doesn't leave much doubt about it.

Vote: d3sisted

[Zeppo]

I'm sorry I messed up that quote. Mr Mean said that, not DeathSauce. It's post 413.

[Zeppo]

I'm pretty much a n00b. I know what cop sanities are. How rare is it to have a non-sane cop? If it's quite probable I'll unvote for the time being.

[Zeppo]

Well that pretty much settles that then.

[Zeppo]

Agreed, we were very lucky with the cop and with the eagerness to lynch Corn for a silly slip up.

All the same, max you were killing me at the end not finishing it!

Mr Mean what was going on in your head?
Well done scum

[Zeppo]

^I'm still surprised everyone leaped on you Corn. Mr Mean what was your reasoning for pointing a finger at d3sisted as you went out?

[Zeppo]

CP definitely had me worried for some moments there.