Mini 497 - Game Over

[curiouskarmadog]

hello, give me sometime to read...need to get up to speed

[curiouskarmadog]

ugh, not going to be able to hit this reread until SUnday or Monday..sorry...meant to do it today..but got horribly distracted by another game...

will jump on it asap!

[curiouskarmadog]

OK going to do a read through and pull posts (or quote them) that stick out to me as I go to see what needs to be seen. I am filling in for dusterhan, so I wont be able to address anything he did, also

Mod can you update the first page to reflex the replacements.

Post 24:

Vote: Aimee

Also Dusterhan why are you trying to get rid of Sephiroth, you have a reason right?

Seems like a complete jump in logic for page 1. Much of the next couple pages talk about mt predecessor’s curious comments. They do seem odd and not too helpful. I have seen more experienced players do this and lurk to set a “trap” to see who would push a wagon against him. I doubt that is what dusterhan was doing (at this point in my reread), though. If I were in this game at this point, I would be asking duster questions as well.

Post 59:

I don't know if this type of character cxan exist in a mini normal, but I have seen a character called the Jester or something like it, I think. And his win condition is to have the town lynch him. I doubt dusterhan is a jester, that doesn't seem to be likely in a mini normal. But his playing has been odd. None of his posts have been clear in any way, almost every one has some sort of enigma in it. He plays almost like he's trying to get us to believe he is scum or something, which, even if he is town, is extremely unhelpful to the town as a whole.

We shouldn't be speculating roles this early in the game.

This seems like a silly comment for no reason, talking about a jester is hardly speculating roles

Post 66:

Hey. Noting I'm here and not away. I've been watching the thread pan out over abit, but unfortunately not found a place to post yet!

Can someone put a single post about why dusterhan is so scummy. Include quotes, and attacks made on him please. I can't make much of it

This is sticking out to me. It seems to be calling out everyone who is calling duster scummy, almost insinuating that they are questioning him for no reason. Which could be taken two ways. Pro-town, trying to head off a bandwagon and putting people under the microscope who could be trying to get a fast lynch. Scum, Nek knows that duster is town and is getting his view out there before duster is hung so it buys him town creds Day 2.

Post 79: atticus with more game theory, he has not provided any game content at this point.

Post 83:

The biggest attack I had on Duster. I said I was liking him less and less, I didnt even actually call him suspicious in any of my posts, simply call that one post suspect.

Ewwwww, this was a ridiculous statement and it seems like a backtrack. Not to mention I think you did indeed mention that duster was acting scummy.

Post 85: more non content from atticus.

Post 87: Ha, Aimee echoes my thoughts.

Post 91: more backtracking for Sephiroth.

End of page 4, duster asked about the vote count, but doesn’t address anyone’s conversation about him…ugh.

Post 101:

But right now I think chances of him being actual scum are little over 50%, hence my vote on him. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be town, but he's the most suspicous player at the moment.

the end of this post by joost, seems like he is covering all of his bases.

Post 102 Tinvision thinks that case against duster is shaky.

(an hour later) Post 104 Tinvision votes duster…(umm, what?)

Post 109: Tin, explains, but makes no since..

Post 106: now that duster is acting fairly scummy (imo) we get…

Im not yet really suspicious of Duster. I don't at all like his "going with the flow post" but thats not nearly enough to convince me. I also don't at all like his recent post asking for a vote count, though it is more anti town then it is pro scum (yes there is a difference). Undecided on him for now.

Mini wagon on Tin, and the duster wagon picks up speed (if anyone knows of a player named “Dylan” duster’s play reminds me of that.) At any rate, I think duster’s wagon is well deserved (at this point)

Post 141:

Duster seems to think that game days should take no longer than 8 pages. I'd love to have him replaced, but I'm really not caring about him right now.

Not liking kabenon's vote on duster. But then, if I were dependent on duster posting, I might have voted him too.

don’t like this post either.

Post 142:

What would we learn if we did and he was scum? No one's running to his defense, so I can't see anyone who can be linked to him in any meaningful way.

Except for you, of course. Obviously this means nothing unless he were to proven scum. But I do agree that he isnt a good lynch today.

Seph, seems very impressionable..could go either way.

My god, so far this whole thread as been mainly revolving around duster.

Post 164: (not really this thread related) Aimee, Lowell IS NOT a strong player.

Post 173:

And i'm being a lurker becuase i want to be

Ugh, what an asshat…I hate this type of player. (WIFOM moment)If I was in this game at this point, I would probably just ignore duster and assume that his play is so crappy that a cop would investigate him. I couldn’t imagine scum, being so obvious. (like I said WIFOM)

More duster conversation, now mod missing conversation, mod replaced, Nek replaced

CKD, I won't ask you what you think about Duster's posting cause you'll probably agree with us that it sucked. What I would like to know is your opinion on the discussion that formed around him. I hope your next post will give us some insight.

Think I have stated this before. I can understand why people were hot to lynch duster, however, some of the reasoning provided I thought was weak. I am, however, surprised that this town did not lynch him. I have seen bigger games lynch people for less, so kudos to the town for showing restraint for the most part. My opinion of duster was that he was new (probably younger) and really didn’t know how to play or respond. I haven’t meta gamed him, so I don’t know if that is true or not, but that is my impression from reading this game. As far as the town, I thought it was interesting the reactions to duster and much of my scum-dar is based this.

Going to do a person by person scum “rating” in the next 48 hours…I think it is always important to see how people’s views other people change Day to Day and what reason they provide for that change..I also encourage everyone to post a person by person break down…

[curiouskarmadog]

OK this game is in line for me to do a PbP, so player by player thoughts at this point...also heads up, I hate rereading to proofread my own posts, so sorry in advance for grammar errors.

Before going into the PbP thoughts on the duster’s wagon. I feel like it was well deserved. I think his play was more of the village idiot (VI). When I refer to people being on duster’s BW it is not a bad thing by itself. What I don’t like is people being on it for little reason.

Atticus- not really liking his play as town so far. Lurked for a good portion of the game and posted without any content. Post 54, seems like he is just trying to look town for the sake of looking town. He doesn’t ask many questions and I don’t think that he has really done any scum hunting. However, I am getting the feel like he is not very invested in this game. Overall getting a neutral feel off this one (cant really lean one way or the other).

-Tinvision- This guy is screaming newbie scum. Post 102-109 really stand out to me. Says the case against my predecessor was shaky then 1 post/vote (hour later) votes him. When he tries to explain it doesn’t make any since and looks as if he is back pedaling. Most of his posts revolve around him and not actually looking for scum. Isolating tin by himself I would say scum. .

Destructor- think he is actively looking for scum. Asks questions and probes. Could be scum playing a good game. There is no real actions (votes) to judge him on except for his constant push on Tinvision (who I feel is scum as well). Never really jump on predecessor’s BW, which would have been an easy lynch. Getting a good vibe from him.

Joost – on the fence on him. Seems to like to vote lurkers and was on the duster wagon. Was not a fan of post 101, seemed like he was posting something he could fall back on later when duster turned up town. I am in another game with joost. There is a distinct difference between the plays. In this game, I feel he is being more aggressive. Now, I don’t know his alignment in the other game, so it is hard gauge it here. Might have to meta game more to get a solid feel on him, but doubt I will get anything conclusive. I think he has been attacking the easiest targets here at the time and only once the town seems to be heading that way anyway. However, easiest targets are not always bad targets if they are indeed playing scummy. Currently joost is on tinvision (which like destructor, I agree with)…so putting joost in the neutral category, but am leaning scum (really depends on the alignment of tin and BWs to come).

Knuck/opposedforce – Knuck defended duster early in the BW with metagaming. Seemed to pressure those who were attacking duster. Then changes, saying that he doesn’t think Duster is scum, but his lynch would help the town provide information. UGH. A day later, he votes duster even though he thinks he is town (poor play). Then he thinks kabenon and joost are scummy for harping on duster when Knuck’s vote was on duster too. (scum play). His last post, he is defending himself against joost and ends with a deflect (poor play). All opposedforce has done is do a PbP and has jumped on the tinvision bandwagon. I am putting opposedforce in the sucm category for now basically for Knuck’s bad play.

kabenon007- has been on the duster BW. Has confronted other’s in the game but really hasn’t pushed anyone. No real read yet. Neutral category, probably town.

Nirp- last post was 10 days ago, having a feeling that he will be replaced

MOD if it hasn’t been done yet, can we prod Nirp, thanks

Was on the duster wagon. Believed Tin’s excuse (mistake) about his change of heart about duster. Jumped off the duster bandwagon after Kncuk’s post (when knuck didn’t think duster was scum)…hoped that duster would just be replaced (good play). However, his last two post say that “he wouldn’t mind if duster got lynched” and mentioned that duster might have a negative effect on the town endgame…don’t know how to take that. Putting him in the neutral category for now.

Sephiroth- in the beginning I didn’t like seph’s play at all. Post 83 seemed like a backtrack/lie.
Later he says he is not “yet” suspicious of duster, which is a contradiction. Later he does a PbP and puts duster in his top 4 suspects..along with 2 lurkers and Kab who was attacking duster. So Seph felt like Kab was acting weird in his attack of duster (defending his vote), but is ok with a duster lynch. Seems like Seph, is trying to set up Kab, when duster comes up town in a lynch seph was for. Anyone else think that odd? Last post was 09/28, attacking destructor for “defending” duster. Has crap argument on why leaving duster alive is a bad idea…no to mention, he never had his vote on duster….SUSPICIOUS PLAY!!! Leaning scum.

MOD, Seph needs a prod too me thinks, thanks.

Aimee – In every game I am in with aimee, she is just a light poster…which gets her FoS, voted for, and lynched a bunch I beat. I don’t think she is really following this game and she really hasn’t helped. Neutral, probably town.

SilverPhoenix – last post 13 days ago.last post with any content. 32 days ago.

MOD, silver needs a prod too, probably a replacement.

Silver has done absolutely jack in the game. No read, needs to be replaced.

Nekka-Lucifer/vamp- on duster’s BW for lurking, all the while lurking himself. Didn’t really help the game. Vamp has entered the game and fos duster (think your vote is still on him/me, BTW). Hasn’t really done anything yet. Need more content (maybe a PbP?). no read.

This game is suffering from a lot of inactive players.

I am very suspicious of tin and opposedforce right now (but don’t think they are scum together), but think I am more suspicious of Sephiroth.

Vote Sephiroth.

For attacking Kab’s push for duster lynch, while you are active-aggressively doing the same thing without voting. Also your earlier backtrack/lie makes you quite scummy looking. I would like to see a new updated suspect list from you

[curiouskarmadog]

active-aggressively=passive aggressively.

[curiouskarmadog]

-Tinvision- This guy is screaming newbie scum. Post 102-109 really stand out to me. Says the case against my predecessor was shaky then 1 post/vote (hour later) votes him. When he tries to explain it doesn’t make any since and looks as if he is back pedaling. Most of his posts revolve around him and not actually looking for scum. Isolating tin by himself I would say scum.

Would you hammer him now if you had the chance?

Honestly I don’t know. Would I hammer right now? No, I need to see what the reactions are to my PbP. Would I hammer later? Maybe? I need more information today before I would feel good associating my name with a lynch.

Destructor- think he is actively looking for scum. Asks questions and probes. Could be scum playing a good game. There is no real actions (votes) to judge him on except for his constant push on Tinvision (who I feel is scum as well). Never really jump on predecessor’s BW, which would have been an easy lynch. Getting a good vibe from him.

Do you think it's a good thing he didn't jump on the Duster wagon? And do you think it's a town tell not to do so?

Yeah, I think this town would have lynched duster quickly if it wasn’t for a couple people here. Do I think it is a town tell not to do what? Lynch duster quickly? It can go either way. If duster was lynched and then came up town, if scum wasn’t on the lynch, they got town creds. So to oppose a lynch that will probably happen anyway is a good call for scum. However, a true townie would want to slow down the Day 1 BW (that early) to get more information, which I think this town REALLY needs. To call out those who voted without reason…so, the fact that he wasn’t on the lynch really is a neutral read to me.

Knuck/opposedforce – Knuck defended duster early in the BW with metagaming. Seemed to pressure those who were attacking duster. Then changes, saying that he doesn’t think Duster is scum, but his lynch would help the town provide information. UGH. A day later, he votes duster even though he thinks he is town (poor play). Then he thinks kabenon and joost are scummy for harping on duster when Knuck’s vote was on duster too. (scum play). His last post, he is defending himself against joost and ends with a deflect (poor play). All opposedforce has done is do a PbP and has jumped on the tinvision bandwagon. I am putting opposedforce in the sucm category for now basically for Knuck’s bad play.

Is poor play the same as scum play? And if not, is your suspicion based on that one scum play argument you mentioned?

Hmm…lets take a metaphor trip. If it is super humid outside (poor play) you are not really wet (scum)or dry(town). If it raining (scum play) you most likely are wet. If you have many humid days in a row, mostly likely you are wet. What I mean to say is, poor play is bad play, but not really a scum tell by itself. But coupled with other scum plays only adds to my suspicion. Jesus, does that make sense?

Sephiroth- in the beginning I didn’t like seph’s play at all. Post 83 seemed like a backtrack/lie.
Later he says he is not “yet” suspicious of duster, which is a contradiction. Later he does a PbP and puts duster in his top 4 suspects..along with 2 lurkers and Kab who was attacking duster. So Seph felt like Kab was acting weird in his attack of duster (defending his vote), but is ok with a duster lynch. Seems like Seph, is trying to set up Kab, when duster comes up town in a lynch seph was for. Anyone else think that odd? Last post was 09/28, attacking destructor for “defending” duster. Has crap argument on why leaving duster alive is a bad idea…no to mention, he never had his vote on duster….SUSPICIOUS PLAY!!! Leaning scum.

Good catch on Sephiroth. I will have to reread him. What exactly is crap about the argument on lynching Duster (besides the fact that he never voted for Duster himself)?

going to answer this in a separate post….

[curiouskarmadog]

...dont have time at the moment....

[curiouskarmadog]

reply coming, need time to pull quotes (unless Seph you actually want to reread yourself and admit you are wrong or "mistaken"). dont have the time right now.

[curiouskarmadog]

note to all my games:

going to be a light poster for the next 3-4 days (best man in a wedding) should be back and posting regularly by Sunday/Monday..

[curiouskarmadog]

ok back from my weekend..will be getting to a post tomorrow to include a retort to Sephiroth and a read through what I missed to get me back up to speed.

[curiouskarmadog]

I cant believe you are pushing this crap. I am also shocked that even after I gave you a chance to defend yourself, you continue to lie.

Sephiroth- in the beginning I didn’t like seph’s play at all. Post 83 seemed like a backtrack/lie.

This is clearly not a backtrack or lie, firstly because I do not go back on any of my opinions. Secondly, because I have consistently said that I find his posts to be suspect, but not that I necessarily find

him

scummy. I could point to several posts that I find scummy from each player, this does not mean I am suspicious of all of those people.

No, you called him scummy and anti-town.

Post 60 (which is quoted in 83)

I voted Sephiroth cos everyone was voting and i was just going with the flow... or was i?

This post is ridiculous...First, going with the flow is scummy on it's own (and I think that

was

why he voted as he did). Second, saying something like "or was I?" Is simply confusing to the town, and therefore, anti town. I'm liking Duster less and less every time he posts.

The biggest attack I had on Duster. I said I was liking him less and less, I didnt even actually call him suspicious in any of my posts, simply call that one post suspect.

You did more than call out one post. You said you are liking him less and less every time he posts (more than one). You called him anti-town and that his action was scummy.

I think you were backtracking because you knew he was town…and when he was lynched, you wanted to be able to say, “Hey, I never thought he was scummy, look ma no votes”…Yet in post 60 you CLEARLY thought he was anti-town and scummy. You wanted to push the wagon without actually being on it.

Later he says he is not “yet” suspicious of duster, which is a contradiction.

How so? An argument cannot just be a claim. Please warrant your statements. Show me how I contradicted myself.[/quote]

After you called him anti-town, scummy, and said you are liking his posts less and less, you say you are not yet suspicious of him. You are contradicting yourself. Unless you want us to believe that when you call someone anti-town and scummy, you don’t actually think they are suspicious.

Seems like Seph, is trying to set up Kab, when duster comes up town in a lynch seph was for.

How is this a good point at all? Statistically, I expect that Duster will come up town. I do not want Duster lynched for scumminess. The fact that you do not know this proves that you did not actually read my post. Further, Duster coming up scum or town has nothing to do with why I'm suspicious of kab. I've said before and I'll say again: its because he has been consistently inconsistent.

How the hell do you suspect “statictically” anyone will come up town? Please quote where I said you want to lynch duster for scumminess? You even quoted where I said you want to lynch duster (and he comes up town). You are the one not reading posts. Speaking of being inconsistent, this entire quote is about you being inconsistent.

Dusterhan:

Earlier I pointed out that it would be a good idea to ignore Duster. It is quite clear that Duster does not plan to contribute anything to the game. Because of this, we have no idea of his alignment. Going by percentage, it is highly likely that Duster is town. However, after much thought, I'm starting to think that Duster may not be a bad choice of lynch after all. Firstly, there is the matter of info that we may get from a Duster lynch. People have said throughout the day how we don't get much info from a Duster lynch. But think about it; who has yet to post an opinion on the issue? As far as I can tell, everyone has a well documented opinion of a Duster lynch, and there is the matter of some odd behavior by certain players (tin and Kab's weird switches for example). The duster lynch could give us some good info. Second, Joost makes a good point in 213; If we dont lynch him now, when will we? I find scum NKing him highly unlikely. As joost said, the longer that Duster lives, the more he will hurt the town, and influence lynches. This will be especially bad in endgame. Thirdly, Duster is unwilling to scumhunt himself. He also asks "who are we picking on". I am very worried that late game he will be susceptible to being lead by scum and this will be VERY dangerous late in the game. So I think a Duster lynch would be a good move right now.

In this post, you state that you changed your mind (after “much” thought). You think the town should lynch duster, even though you think he town. You are actually making a case for the town to lynch..a town. “if we don’t lynch him now, when will we?” I don’t know, how about never. How about we focus on lynching mafia instead? Please tell me, giving duster’s play at this point the game, how he could possibly influence lynches. I cant find any posts at this point where anyone in the town says, “Hey duster has a point”. You are attacking Kab for changing his mind, but the fact that you are for a duster lynch when you think duster is town is ok..that fact that you just wanted to ignore him, but now lynch him is ok…that is hypocritical.

he never had his vote on duster….

Again, if you had read my post, you would know that I did not vote because I was going to wait until I had finished all of my PBP's. As it turned out, things came up, I never got around to finishing my PBP's. Thus, no duster vote.

Your argument is crap, because you just don’t lynch someone you believe is a townie. You don’t know what the future will hold. This case in point, Duster was replaced. Now aren’t you glad the town didn’t agree with you and lynch a townie?…somehow I doubt you are. I dont think you ever planned on voting duster. I also dont think you ever planned on finsihing that PBP. You thought the town was going to lynch Duster without you so you can buy yourself some town creds by saying "I never voted duster, and look I even said he was town".

My vote on you stands…and all of the reasons stated with that vote stands...also add you are a hypocritic too.


Going to finish the read.

[curiouskarmadog]

Riiiight…you retort was weak, full of mistruth, horrid reasoning, and out and out misrepresentations. you are scum

1) I make a very big distinction between thinking a post from someone is scummy, to thinking that THEY are scummy. I clearly said that I felt his actions were scummy, and have explained this standpoint twice before this post.

You want us to swallow the following:

You say someone’s posts are scummy and their actions are anti-town, but you are not suspicious of them and don’t think they are scummy.

I bet if you hear someone make a racist statement, and see them put up a noose, you don’t think they are racist too, right?

This is what you want us to believe.

I like how you simply write it off without addressing why it is a good idea. I think it's very scummy to be so adamant about something so as to throw out anything different from your opinion without listening to the argument for it.

Hanging a townie is not a good idea…wait, now let me get something straight here, are you calling my actions scummy or me scum, I get so confused. I love how you go to length to defend your push (not vote) for a person you believe is town (who plays anti-town and post scummy things)...riiiight.

guys, do I really need to discuss why lynching someone you think is town is bad?

Any change of opinion is hypocritical then? I gave a well explained reason (though you may not agree with it) for my change of mind. If even that type of change of mind is hypocritical, then how o how will any townie ever change their opinion on something?

Read the quote…you are hypocritical because you attack Kab for changing his mind about duster, but it is ok for you to change your mind about duster. Again, please quote where I said people who change an opinion are hypocritical. Again, you misquote me.

Yes, he got replaced. However, this is due to him dropping out of the game. When I made my post, he had been popping in and out. As long as a player is posting, they cant be replaced. Thats why I suggested the idea. But what I like about this is that YOU ASSUME THAT DUSTER IS TOWN. Now why would you know that? Perhaps because you're scum and he's not one of your buddies?

Oh look at this tale she is spinning, I am scum because I know duster is town and he isn’t one of my buddies!!…This is a gem….you really want to push this lie too?

Confirm vote spehiroth

I don’t think anyone should address this, yet. I want to hear this theory in full. Please Sephiroth continue…i am scum because...?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am going to wait to retort after you have crafted your case against me. I want to hear you go more in detail how I am probably scum because I know duster is town and he isnt one of my scum buddies, that was great I am still laughing. I look forward to your case and your OMGUS vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am calling him out, joost...

he called duster scummy, then when duster's wagon rose, he came out and said he never thought duster was suspicious. I think he did this so once duster was hung and it came out he was town, he could say "hey look, I never voted for him" essentially buying himself some town creds.

When I called him out on it, he comes back with “I never thought duster was scummy.” He wants the town to believe that he thought duster's POSTS were scummy and his ACTIONS were anti-town, but he never thought duster himself was scum. Joost, are you telling me you believe this?

Before I replaced in he was pushing to lynch someone he thought was town...again, joost, are you ok with lynching townie, versus trying to find scum?

Then he is pushing a theory (maybe not a lie) that I must be scum because I know duster is town and he is not one of my buddies, not even checking the facts before putting it out there. Now he is going to be putting together a case against me, but he knows nothing about what is going on in this game. Ask yourself this, why is he so sure I am scum, when he does even know who I am replacing? Are you willingly to believe any case this guy pushes when it is obvious he does not have a handle on the game?..I am looking forward to reading the OMGUS vote and case.

FOS joost

Why did you take it upon yourself to correct him joost? You werent curious how far he would have tried to take it....it would have told us a lot about him..

[curiouskarmadog]

Joost, if you think I am scum as you have indicated in this post, why not vote for me? I hope you are not waiting for a bandwagon.

I find you suspicious, because it WOULD have told us a lot about him. The fact that you stopped him from making a bigger ass of himself, than he aready has, has been noted. Joost, you are here to find scum right?

Since when has the game mafia been about being a gentleman? Some might argue that your playstyle (up until now) is not gentleman-like. Speaking of that, why the change in playstyle? This entire game you have been actively pushing and looking for scum. Seems to me someone who is town would want to see how far Seph would continue to push her crap logic. But now, you have taken the defense of someone you supposedly dont know the alignment of. Now why is that?

[curiouskarmadog]

The CKD Case

I. The misrepresentation:

A.

No, you called him scummy and anti-town.

you continue to lie.

Ckd accused me of lying. However, I have several times shown that I called Dusters post scummy, not Duster himself. I asked CKD to find just one place where I call duster scummy, and he failed. Yet he still accuses me of lying. At the very most, the fact that I make the distinction between scummy actions and scummy players and he does not is a meta debate. To call my opinion an outright lie is a

blatant

misrepresentation.

The lie here is that you want this town to believe that you called duster’s posting scummy and his actions anti-town, but you didn’t find him scummy. Explain to us what actions actually make someone “scummy” in your point of view. Please address what “I am liking him less and less”..WHY are you liking him less and less?

Point A, B, C, all have to do with this basic point.

uot;]Riiiight…you retort was weak, full of mistruth, horrid reasoning, and out and out misrepresentations. you are scum

As I showed at the end of my post, I made no misrepresentations, no lies, and you didnt even attack my reasoning. So this your 5th now.

Fine, if I need to explain the most elementary points of this game I will. We need the majority to win. We need to lynch scum, not townies to win. The fact that you were trying to push a case to lynch someone who you thought was townie, based one YOUR conjecture of their future actions is scummy. I wouldn’t have a problem with you if you simply admitted you thought duster was scummy. Once the town obviously wasn’t going to lynch duster based on his “scummy” posts and “anti-town” actions, you change up tactics to “I think duster (who is town) but he will hurt us in the long run, lets lynch him”

E.

From my point of view, you ARE lying. Your lie is that fact that you want this town to believe you didn’t think duster was scum at a certain point. That point in the game is key and I think you that I have caught you in your ruse, which is way you are going to such great length to say you didn’t think duster was scummy. Anybody ask themselves why he couldn’t just simply say..”yeah I thought duster was scummy”? Anybody ask themselves why he wants you to believe that he thought duster’s posts were scummy and his actions anti-town, but didn’t think duster himself was scum?

F.

Again, you misquote me.

When you say misquote, you imply that I actually took one of your posts, quoted it, changed around the words, and presented it as if you actually said it, which is WAY off. I simply misunderstood what you were attacking me for. Also, your use of the word "again" attempts to imply that I have misquoted you before, which is also, a blatant misrepresentation, if not a borderline lie.

Maybe I meant misrepresented versus misquote.

1.)

Any change of opinion is hypocritical then? I gave a well explained reason (though you may not agree with it) for my change of mind. If even that type of change of mind is hypocritical, then how o how will any townie ever change their opinion on something?

Read the quote…you are hypocritical because you attack Kab for changing his mind about duster, but it is ok for you to change your mind about duster. Again, please quote where I said people who change an opinion are hypocritical. Again, you misquote me.

Here you are trying to say I said changing one’s mind is hypocritical. Which is either a misrepresentation or a lie. I never said that. You didn’t quote me in the post, but you are suggesting I said something I NEVER EVEN CAME CLOSE TO SAYING…I say misquote..but maybe it is a misrepresentation?..which is worse?

.


G.

1) I make a very big distinction between thinking a

post

from someone is scummy, to thinking that THEY are scummy. I clearly said that I felt his actions were scummy, and have explained this standpoint twice before this post.

You want us to swallow the following:

You say someone’s

posts

are scummy and their actions are anti-town, but you are not suspicious of them and don’t think they are scummy.

A subtle attempt to turn what I said, "post", into what you want me to have said, "posts".

So that is a whopping

8

misrepresentations, all used in ways to inflate his case, and make it seem right when it was not. These are very scummy, because there is no motivation for a townie to falsely inflate a case, while there is motivation for scum (an easier lynch).

Please address this…don’t just call it a misrepresentation.

Do you really want us to believe when you post that you like someone less and less, when someone’s posts are scummy, when you think someone’s actions are anti-town, that you are not suspicious of them or think they are scum?

LOL, I am not even addressing the appeals of to emotion points. They are ridiculous. Please tell me how sarcasm and angry posts = scum.

I haven’t retorted to why “lynching a townie is a good thing” because I thought it was elementary. You lynch someone when they are acting scummy, but could be town. You have stated and are pushing to have us believe that you thought duster was town…not town, that could be scum…but just town. That is scummy.

Just because I don’t go line by line when addressing your posts doesn’t mean points are dropped. That is too ridiculous. If you ask me a question, I will address it.

The only thing is this whole case you MIGHT have a point about is the fact I didn’t address why I thought lynching a townie was a bad idea. I thought this was common knowledge.

I think you are lying you say I misrepresenting you. You say I am ignoring points, but you have not asked questions. “Appeals to emotion” example are sad. Even if they are appeals of emotion how is that scummy?


Oh and look the second most scummiest person in the game (tinvision) agrees with you…good job.

At any rate, we can keep going around in circles. I think you are scum…I think I caught you in your ruse. Now I am purposely misleading you? You were about ready to pose a case that I was scum based on your conjecture that I know he was town because he wasn’t one of my scum buddies. I wanted you to discredit yourself. Tell me, how am I NOT protown? I think you are scum, I wanted to prove to this town how full of crap your cases are. I am attacking you because I think you are scum = protown.

[curiouskarmadog]

so was Speh examples truly appeals to emotion?

[curiouskarmadog]

sarcasm and angry posts, as you yourself called them, are indeed appeals to emotion. They are, rather than appealing to us to think, appealing to us to feel as you feel, that his attacks on you are ridiculous rather than appealing to us to think that his attacks are full of holes.

so you think my posts are scummy? his attacks are ridiculous...how can one argue an accuastion of "appealing to emotion" wihtout getting into WIFOM territory...



dont have the time right now to go line by line of seph's post..it will take me time to go through the wall of words..have a feeling when I do this it will just result into another wall of words which will turn into a pyramid of words and all my points are lost.

town if you think I am scum, lynch me..once you see my alignment you might rethink Seph and might look into my points (if you havent already)..

will try to tackle his post tomorrow...or the next day

[curiouskarmadog]

Because there is clearly no motivation for town to use appeals to emotion, so there is no "well, maybe he's doing that so we think he's protown" factor. Please explain how appeal to emotion could possibly be wifom

Sometimes people use appeal to emotions without realizing it. I have on many occasions, usually in an attempt to further their argument and make it look like it contains more content than it does. Also, for scum to use logic to defend themselves is difficult, because the truth of the matter is that they are not the townies they are lying to be. So logic is not on their side. So they have to lie and use appeal to emotion because the logic, the truth, is that they are scum. It's like Seph said, townies have no need to use appeal to emotions in a constructive argument. In mere passing, I can excuse that more readily.

ok if I am hung, and I come up town..will his examples still be "appeal to emotion"? People get pissed in this game..other than using the word "ridiculous" is his examples of appeals for emotion valid or is he just stretching? Kab, you didnt answer my question though, do you think I am scummy? Do you think I have dropped points? Just because I dont go line by line and retort on every post doesnt mean I am ignore a single line...

I will play his game, and do that...but I am telling you the reply posts are going to get so long, no one will bother reading them. ..or maybe this is is goal.

[curiouskarmadog]

for the record..am I being anti-town, scummy, or a scummy player?..

I think I am being very pro-town going after who i think is scum.

well I believe what I believe..hang me for it if you got too...I would rather I hang than another townie possible power role (claim: vanilla town).

I dont believe Seph when he says that he is liking a player less and less, that the player's action were anti-town, and their posts are scummy, but that he doesnt believe that person is suspicious or scummy...it really is moot at this point, because NOW he wants everyone to believe he thinks I am scum....

I dont agree with lynching a townie...I dont think duster was hurting the town being here (that being said, he wasnt helping either)

If I am hung today, I would absolutely love to address the conversations about appealing to emotion at the end of game....

Joost, I think I am at 4 votes now...vamp and tin never changed thier vote when I replaced it and both dropped quick, I agree posts....I have your and Seph's...am I missing one?

[curiouskarmadog]

As for you thinking you look pro-town because you are attacking someone you believe is scum, that's not actually very helpful, as scum also attack people and currently I don't see any evidence to suggest the former.

I think it was anti-town. I've seen many townies being similarly unhelpful.

this town is full of unhelpful townies...but many could be hanging low for reason only known to them..others just post to make it look like they have content, but I think they are just happy the light of suspicion isnt on them anymore.

It has been said that my current actions are anti-town...I dont feel like they are, I think Speh is scum. (laughing) I am quite aware that scum also attack people (currently at 4 votes)..my point here is no one saying that Tin and Vamp's pop in confirm votes are being anti-town...maybe if I would have just stated my position and lurked I wouldnt be in my current position. I saw something I believed is scummy..I attack it. At any rate, I look forward to the end game discussion.

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, CKD, in post 385, you appealed to our emotions again... "hang me for it if you got too..." That kind of talk is something I have been attacked for in this game as well... by Shanba I think... why are you not attacking it with CKD?

so then I must be scum? Where is your vote Kab?

[curiouskarmadog]

my point is here, what you call "appeals to emotion" do not = scum.

[curiouskarmadog]

so then I am scummy, and Tin and Vamp's votes are scummy..

interesting joost..guess you covered all angles for Day 2 then.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, how many times do I have to say it, I want a vote count before I vote. Listen to me so we don't waste space repeating ourselves. Don't worry, I am sure my vote will be on you soon enough.

why do you want a vote count first?

if I am at -1, you want somebody else to hammer? If I am at -2, you want to put me at -1?..what is the point, I have already claimed.

[curiouskarmadog]

No, CKD, I just don't want to vote, have you at -1, and then have people who are suspicious of you, who could be scum, vote for the hammer. We need information, not just a lynch. A lynch is necessary, but information takes precedence. That being said, I am going to put you at -2. I am comfortable with that.

vote CKD

that being said, are you comfortable with your voting partners thus far?

[curiouskarmadog]

my point is here, what you call "appeals to emotion" do not = scum.

correct. appeals to emotion = scummy. Multiple appeals to emotion in combination with other tells = scum.

you are wrong..again (yeah yeah yeah, when have you been wrong before)..Have you started preparing your Day 2 explanation yet?

I will enjoy the end game conversation...

[curiouskarmadog]

Does it matter? There opinions do not influence mine. I am my own person and fomulate my own opinions. What was the point in asking me this?

the answer might be important Day 2, since me/duster have been the only votes you have placed all game, I wanted the town have that input.

...I am going to try to help the town as much as I can until my last breath.

[curiouskarmadog]

you are wrong..again (yeah yeah yeah, when have you been wrong before)..Have you started preparing your Day 2 explanation yet?

these kind of comments sure arent helping you. In the time it took you to make this post you couldve easily have actually responded to some of my most recent attacks on you. But you make another appeal to emotion, and also once again just state your opinion without arguing you point. Anyways, I don't expect I'll need an explanation tomorrow, I think you're scum. Thats why my vote is on you.

what is the point?..

[curiouskarmadog]

it will take me a good hour to break it all down, and then you will go line by line again..it pyramid of words will be huge, and people wont bother reading it...

[curiouskarmadog]

what is the point of address the line by line of your "new" attacks.

[curiouskarmadog]

I didnt ask you to back down. Excepted my fate (for the most part) I am asking you to comment Day 1 on who else you feel is scummy

[curiouskarmadog]

drop whatever insults you need to, I dont take it personally...being a "jackass" does not say I am scummy. I am sure your vote will come with an explanation?..please tell me how I am being a jackass, as well

[curiouskarmadog]

dont be so antsy joost..you will get your lynch sooner than later.

[curiouskarmadog]

nice input.

[curiouskarmadog]

as much as I appreciate someone finally I saying that I am not scummy...I dont trust it. It is easy to say someone is not scummy when they are at -1 and not provide anything else.

If(when) I am lynched today and come out town, you can always fall back on this post to buy yourself some town creds Day 2..

Atticus, if you think I am not scummy, who is? Do you think there is scum on my BW?..who?

[curiouskarmadog]

you dont know?

[curiouskarmadog]

you need to follow the game a little better.

vamp and tin never unvoted when I replaced.

Vote Count

:

curiouskarmadog (5): vampyrusddg, -TinVision-, Sephiroth, joost, kabenon007
-TinVision- (2): destructor, OpposedForce
kabenon007 (1): Shanba
Sephiroth (1): curiouskarmadog
Atticus (1): Aimee
vampyrusddg (1): Atticus

not voting (1): Flameaxe

Seven to lynch.

Current Player List

:

Atticus
curiouskarmadog

(replaces dusterhan)

-TinVision-
destructor
joost
OpposedForce

(replaces Knuck)

kabenon007
Shanba

(replaces Nirp)

Sephiroth
Aimee
Flameaxe

(replaces SilverPhoenix)

vampyrusddg

(replaces Nekka-Lucifer)

[curiouskarmadog]

and I am the guy that is close to a lynch...maybe I should have ignored this game and coast too..seems like a good tactic.

[curiouskarmadog]

right, but would scum act so blatantly disinterested?

[curiouskarmadog]

Hey, sorry about my absence. I really have no excuse, I just forgot to check on this one. Um... my vote on CKD still stands, he hasn't defended himself well enough IMO.

lol, have you presented a case?

look I am just a vanilla townie..so I would rather you lynch me than a power role..that being said, I would rather you lynch scum instead of me...but do what you got to do...maybe if I am dead you might look at Seph and joost a little more closely...

[curiouskarmadog]

maybe if I am dead you might look at Seph and joost a little more closely...

no offense CKD, but if we did lynch you and it proved your VT claim then why would we be any more inclined to believe you? It would just prove that you knew as little as every other VT/non-investigative town role in this game. All it would prove is that there was no mallicious intent behind your accusations

have you seriously looked at joost and Seph? IF so, what do you think my case is against them?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'll be away till Wednesday.

I'll keep my vote on CKD.

of course you will, myabe if you get lucky, I get hung

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm lost at why Kabenon considers one of Sephiroth or CKD as definite scum. I see the possibility of two townies disputing as possible (although I agree that they are unlikely to be scum

together

.)

well (now I am just throwing this out there)...lets say I am lynched today, and then I come up town. WELL, Seph then has to be scum, so it will be easy for Kab to push that vote tomorrow...IF (and only if) Speh really is town, this is a way for Kab (who could be scum) to take out two townies and not hurt is town creds..

I am not sure how anyone could definately consider one of us MUST be scum. You either think I am scum because of Seph's case or you think he is scum because of mine. It is an easy cop out to say that one of us MUST be scum with out providing reasons or mentioning our cases....this smells of someone who is laying down a case for a lynch Day 2 without even seeing a result from a lynch Day 1.

as much as this pains me..

unvote Sephiroth

..

I dont like his play, but I am starting to see that he is not the scummiest here...

Kab, why is one of definately scum? If I am lynched today and come up town, why is Seph scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

that has to be the biggest and most obvious back pedal I have seen to date playing this game.

wow.

if you didnt mean to post that, what did you actually mean to say?

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, I'm still pretty sure CKD is scum. He may have backed down, but its really wifom, and doesn't change the fact that he posted the exaggerated case to begin with. In addition to the fact that I'm pretty sure he's scum, his results will tell us a lot about the people trying to derail his wagon in favor of one on Kab.

so when I come up town..what does that tell you about Kab?...is he clear in your eyes? if not, why post this?

[curiouskarmadog]

so when I come up town..what does that tell you about Kab?...is he clear in your eyes? if not, why post this?

I didnt include how I felt if you turned up town for two reasons. First, I'm fairly certain you won't be turning up town. Second, I'm not completely certain what I'd think of Kab. The fact that he just jumped on the case I presented against you is definitely a point against him, in the case that you are town.

then why post that it will be telling for Kab, when you dont have a clue what it will actually be "Telling"? I hope you take repsonsibility tomorrow for your pushing of my lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

OK, what will it tell you about the people trying to "derail" my wagon them..

Seph, you are going to have many problems day 2...I hope you are 100% certian on this, because you are the engine behind my lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

OK, what will it tell you about the people trying to "derail" my wagon them..

Seph, you are going to have many problems day 2...I hope you are 100% certian on this, because you are the engine behind my lynch.

I have a question...if you truly are town, why are you continually pointing out that you being town = bad for me, when you could be looking into other players, doing analysis, rereading, and getting your opinions out there? You're not even close to being lynched. Sitting there and saying, "OMG, Im town, seph's scum, lol" really accomplishes nothing.

I am about 90% positive I will be lynched today(if not out right, deadlined)..I have put forth my suspicion of you, joost, and a little for Kab..I have asked questions and told you my alignment. Same question for you, why are you"looking into other players"? I just want you to take responsiblity for my lynch, and you said you would..so I will leave it at that. I have looked into and attacked far more people here than MOST others, yet you dont asked them that question..

why arent you asking Tin and Vamp, why they arent asking questions or scum hunting? I think you are suffering from tunnel vision on me, and letting so many people slide...it will hurt you later in that game(scum or town)..

[curiouskarmadog]

I will continue to post as Seph however, as an attempt to avoid confusion.

Elias! I thought Seph's arguements were familiar...the line by line arguements..ugh...you're still wrong about me, but you have manned up and decided to take responsibilty tomorrow..if you are town, it is bad for the town.

so you expect me to attack others (which I have) and you to do nothing? How many people have you questioned or threw questions at in the past 5 pages versus me? Please Elias, dont be a hypocrite.

I have stopped attacking you (even removed my vote)...seems like you providing an advantage to lurking for the lurkers (what motivation will they have now to come out of hiding)...you dont think it is odd people voting me and then disappearing and lurking...you dont think it is odd people voting me and not even providing a case? you dont think it is odd that Kab (who has no pressure and is not top dog on the lynch ladder) is setting you up for a lynch tomorrow if I come up town? Maybe you should admit you might have tunnel vision before it is too late and at least look into some of these questions yourself.

[curiouskarmadog]

mod, vampyrusddg posted in another thread that his computer was down and he wouldnt be up and running for another month. His last post here was 10/27. Please prod and replace him.

[curiouskarmadog]

mod, vampyrusddg posted in another thread that his computer was down and he wouldnt be up and running for another month. His last post here was 10/27. Please prod and replace him.

I have already been informed, and am already searching for a replacement.

you are the bomb Jdodge, unless being a massive destructive thing isnt your bag of chips...then maybe you are a nice little sparkler...

[curiouskarmadog]

going to be a light poster 11/09-11/12..long weekend holiday..

[curiouskarmadog]

Elias, you know that hasnt been the only opinion I have had,,,I have through suspicion at you and joost....for Tin and Vamp (for different reasons)..and kab for laying the ground work for YOUR lynch Day 2...are you still standing by this post, or do I need to go back and quote every post when I "attacked" someone else?

[curiouskarmadog]

Elias, you know that hasnt been the only opinion I have had,,,I have THROWN suspicion at you and joost....for Tin and Vamp (for different reasons)..and kab for laying the ground work for YOUR lynch Day 2...are you still standing by this post, or do I need to go back and quote every post when I "attacked" someone else?

f proofreading

[curiouskarmadog]

well, I think you would characterize anything I might say that might be an overstatement as a misrepresenatation, but I guess that is ok for you, right. Elias, I am not attacking you anymore...you are digging your own grave because you have got tunnel vision or you are scum. Have I attacked you since you said yo uwould take responsiblity for my lynch?

so since I am "content" that is a scum tell?

I am content because I am a replacement into this game and I am vanilla townie. If I was some sort of a power role I might throw more into this game. As it is, I am putting more into this game than 85% of the town.

I have urged this town to look at other people, but this town is full of lurkers waiting for my deadline lynch...what would you have me do? Put more effort into a game, where no one posts? I have said my piece, if something else comes up I will comment...

Still not too late to admit you could be wrong Elias....

why dont you practice what you preach...when I come up town, who will the scum group be then?..those who voted, or those who made a point not to? If I am scum, who are my buddies?

[curiouskarmadog]

the fact that you have stopped scum hunting is telling...

[curiouskarmadog]

the fact that you have stopped scum hunting is telling...

As you said yourself, there have not been many posts besides ours that contain anything substantial. I've found who I believe to be scum, and I have the info that your lynch tells me in line for tomorrow, so I'm ready to lynch you.

wow

Elias, you are a horrid scum hunter who has a knack of focusing on the obvious while ignoring the truly scummy. Your lack of foresight will get you hung tomorrow. You dont even see people laying groundwork for your lynch tomorrow. (by the way, I have a feeling that statement you will be using as defense come tomorrow, town I say dont let him). Ask yourself this, why would people be stating if CKD is town, the Seph must be scum before I am hung? It is set up. I hope you are scum, because once my alignment and role is revealed, you should pay the piper for your tunnel vision.

I feel like I have put all the info I can (at this point) out there, I agree that my lynch will provide much info for this town. But that information will not be in your favor. I will keep a spot warm for you.

[curiouskarmadog]

Elias, where did I call you scum in that last post? I said "hope" and "if"...if you hope to defend learn to read. Yes Elias, what you lack in scum hunting you have in being able to form a wall of words.

Shanba, not as sure as I once was....The fact that he said he will take responsiblity for my lynch says something to me, what he will say or do tomorrow I will read with interest (as I lie in my grave)..and the fact that Kab came out and said, that either CKD or Seph must be scum, seems like someone who knows I am town and is waiting for my mislynch and is setting up another mislynch tomorrow..maybe indicating that Elias/Speh is town..

that being said..

Vote Kab

, it is probably a useless vote at this point due to all the inactivity here and the fact my BW is leading...I am sure is OMGUS vote will follow only getting me that much more closer...

[curiouskarmadog]

FL

I am the current vote leader...your vote is on me (from vamp) care to comment?

[curiouskarmadog]

so then you will go after TV tomorrow then?

[curiouskarmadog]

FL

I am the current vote leader...your vote is on me (from vamp) care to comment?

Vampyrusddg actually never voted. Nekka-Lucifer voted dusterhan. So that vote on you is officially questionable.

Reading over recent posts.

not that questionable, the MOD said the vote counted in the VC

[curiouskarmadog]

I think it is crap, but again, I am bias

[curiouskarmadog]

bah

[curiouskarmadog]

if anyone should learn something from this game..is always listen to me. I pegged two out of the three...

also, if anyone tries to lynch someone based on appeals to emotion, it is a mountain of shit. I can not believe no one went after Elias the following day..

[curiouskarmadog]

also good game scum...you fuck bags.