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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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Christ on a bike... well to answer the earlier question about reasons for my vote... it was to get some discussion going, looks like it worked better than planned. Not going to try reading all this thoroughly on a mobile while at a friends, so will give it a closer read when I get home Sunday night. For now will leave my vote where it is as any vote is better than no vote.-
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Just to say (still only skimming quickly) posts like these don't help town, and just serve to pad the thread out. This only helps scum. So if you aren't scum, please stop this and only post if you have something to really add to the conversation. If you are scum, continue by all means.In post 205, Alisae wrote:I played in window borderless LQ....-
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Right, entertaining weekend, I attempted to at least somewhat keep up to date on my phone, but keeping track of that shit is hard when you can't clearly read who said what easily. So now I'm back home and will have a nose at what happened properly, from around the time my vote on Alisae was picked up on and started being somewhat queried (as I feel that's where we switched from RVS to actual hunting).
<<< I now empathize with this. A lot. >>>
I'd say the first time there was actual stuff of note was LQ's post #80. Though it's a terrible reasoning, always as for reasons first, I've seen players catch scum early on even in RVS. Also, scum are likely to typo more than others? Bit of a bugger for me, this laptop's shit and misses letters all over the shop, so while I try and catch all typos, I can be almost 100% certain I'll miss one at some point despite focusing as hard as I can. Must be scum then...
Doesn't mean LQ is scum though, but definitely god awful reasoning at the least.
Alisae's post #84 is solid, not from a town nor scum view, but from a "pointing out your reasoning was awful" view.
LQ's post 88 however I like. If only because of point 5, I like getting out of RVS as much as anyone else, so a post that gets us out of it is great. I've even done deliberately scummy posting to get us out of RVS so we can get the game focused, so a bad post (80), to get us into good discussion is fine in my eyes, and gives a slight town lean. Scum should be happy to keep RVS going, while town want to get discussion sparked (and lurkers are annoying as piss regardless of the side they're on).
XnadrodX's post #92 is awful, seriously bad, LQ stated shannon was either bad town or obv. scum being obv. scummy, which... yeah I disagree with regardless, but XnadrodX focuses just on the obv. scum bit and ignores the entire fact LQ even said it could be bad town play? Reads a bit try hard to me, not a fan of deliberately ignring part of a statement because it doesn't fit your own intentions. That is a scummy move.
Due to never playing with people in this game before (and I don't look for meta that I don't already know, depression means I struggle with effort anyway, doing something that feels like work for a game? Bugger that), I have no clue if karnos' post #99 is standard for them regarding not really giving a statement on things (it's bad form either way), however I'm not sure on the LQ wagon here, there seems no reason for it and the fact Alisae dived right in on the next post seems a bit weird. I don't understand the wagoning at all. LQ seems fine, if a little confused with things. Plus, as I said, LQ was the first to start actively moving the game forward, that's instant town points from me there.
Thus, kronos' vote seems bad for multiple reasons, and Alisae's is almost diving on after the first vote.
post #104 from karnos is awful, If LQ is scum, Garmr is a partner? why? Why could LQ not be scum and Garmr just not like the vote? What about if LQ is town, and Garmr is scum wanting town cred? What if both are town and Garmr has a town read on LQ at this point and felt a vote without stating the reasoning is at best bad play, and at worst, scummy? All are valid. Fair enough on the explanation, it doesn't work that way though, town should always be arguing things as well, they need their point across. Hell, if anything, unless scum is being voted for they don't give a toss anyway, so town will be arguing their point even more than scum will. Or at least, they always should be, and if you're town and don't do this, you should be.
However, to answer the last question, yes, an opportunistic vote would be a wagon that you can dive on easily that's gaining steam, being number one on it is rarely opportunistic, in fact it would be rare for it to be, maybe a cock up in wording leads to an easy mislynch and scum want on early, but this wasn't it, so I'd not argue karnos was opportunistic, just could have done with actually posting reasons when voting, not waiting until later.
Not feeling karnos scum at this point, though considering the lack of any tells, he still falls in the top two with XnadrodX.
shannon post #108 Is lovely. Clear explanation (I'm crap for that, this wall is evidence, and I apologise), and seemingly town. More pushing of people though, this doesn't mean a town lean, but if I read future posts forwarding the game, I think town. If future posts are filler, this is likely scum wanting to seem town without actually saying anything.
Garmr post #111 I like. Pretty much says what I just did, and I'll accept the "predict the best place to put their votes" thing too. Never really thought about it like that, but yes, an opportunistic vote could be "this looks like a wagon may start, bung on a vote quick". So additional lean for karnos as scum there, and I almost want to call Garmr obv. town here.
post #115 by nyd is... shit? I dunno what else to say, there's clearly plenty to look at, and he just throws a vote at Alisae with shit-tastic reasoning? Buh?
post #120 from XnadrodX, should I just point to Garmr's point about opportunistic people and save time? I shall indeed do that.
(Side note... it's just now I spot his sig saying to just call him Jordan... my phone didn't show sigs so I got confused, and on the laptop I wasn't paying attention to the sigs til I just caught it as I went to move on, shall be Jordan from now as easier to type)
Lexa's entire response from post #128 (no link) onwards is weird, I don't get any of it, what's more I forgot they were in the game, same with All Alone (where her vote is), Would like to see more posting rather than not contributing.
Alisae, regarding post #142, why is my post above it definite town? I see nothing in what I said to be town, if anything I'd say it was neutral, was more dipping in to let people know I've not abandoned the game. I get a worrying feeling it could be scum trying to keep town on side here.
Then there's a shit posting batch from Alisae and Pep... fuck that noise. Seriously... over 20 posts that equate to white noise, take that bullshit to outside the game, it doesn't belong in here, and I also stick to what I posted while dipping my head in, at best it's annoying as fuck, at worst it's scummy as it just adds fluff. Add in that Pep has done literally nothing at this point. Yeah... scummy as all fuck there. Active, while not actually "active".
Posts #166 - #168 from Garmr are so obv town it's scary. Solid hunting, actual posting... could just be that there's so little of it going on that it stands out, but even if that's the case, it's a welcome relief from the shit posting.
Jordan post #172 seems pretty good in regards to explanation, though I don't like the current potential for linking people in any fashion. It's all fine later in the game and such, but for this early, suggesting partners and that they set this up or that up is stretching it. Plus, vote karnos over LQ because of the feeling that LQ could be deliberately letting karnos get town cred for voting for him, but don't vote LQ at all... nah, sorry, there's more holes in this than swiss cheese.
I will also point out, "seems" pretty good. For me it feels like it's attempting to be town, rather than actually being a town post. The reasoning doesn't match up, and it definitely looks like sudden buddying with Garmr and shannon (who did pick up with better posting from my earlier statement, but nothing massive that I could tell... in fact nothing stood out to me).
And... LQ goes and posts a run of shite from post #175 that are awful. Nothing of substance, nothing to produce discussion, nothing that looks like scum hunting, just posting for the sake of posting. Shoots up on my scum radar for that.
karnos' post #187 and post #188 make no sense to me. Nothing about predicting the future, just about probabilities that if it seemed like someone was about to have a wagon forming, diving on that person early looks good, it would seem "less" opportunistic to be number 1 on a wagon than number 4 for instance, might even buy scum an extra day if they were lucky.
188 though confuses me, what's "shitty scum logic"? Also "best bet" isn't a basis for a read, even going through the thread thus far I can see multiple people worthy of a vote (at this point, LQ, Jordan, Pep, nyd, karnos (obv. don't vote yourself)), all with actual reasons that can be properly argued, a quick throwaway comment about "shitty scum logic" doesn't sit well with me. What's more annoying is it doesn't feel scummy either, just like you don't quite get the game and that there needs to be a lot of discussion which you aren't providing. So while I can see where others are going with you being voted as scum (I even say here you're one of the stronger scum reads), I don't think it's worth giving it a strong read with this. Just... please add more to the discussion when posting?
Alisae post #210 Attacking someone for shitty logic even though you think they're town, is not scummy. Same as agreeing with someone's point, whilst believing they are scum doesn't mean anything. You should question everyone in this game. Unless you are scum "everyone" can be scum. I've said Garmr is obv. town to me, but I'll question him, and push if I feel the need to either get an answer or get a reaction, if anything pushing people should be a town read (simlarly to being forgetful should be, Scum will be checking and double checking, town will be happy to just post... though beware of WIFOM). So the reasoning in this post is atrocious, and I agree with Jordan being scummy as hell still, but the way you got to it seems weird and I don't like it at all.
shannon post #228 pretty much sums up my feelings on LQ's attack on her. I really, really, am not liking LQ at this stage, just something about the way he posts rubs me the wrong way. Especially with claiming shannon's Alisae vote was oportunistic, I can understand the vote myself, and I didn't find your tunnelling to be all that tunnelling... seriously, it didn't really register as tunnelling, just as general posting. shannon gave a fine reason for the vote, LQ dives on it as if it had anything to do with his "tunnelling", sorry, no, no scum hunting there LQ.
You can't say it's scummy to see an opening and vote because that's half of this game, people see something scummy, and vote. Sometimes they sheep another's vote, sometimes they see something you didn't, but ultimately, we need 7 people for a lynch, that means 6 others will see the same as the first person on that wagon, and that doesn't mean any of them were scummy for doing it.
Really feels like reaching at this stage, and scummy to boot.
TheRealGin replaces nyd, does a bunch of good posting to bring him up to a null read (seriously, one post from nyd and it was scum city... so it too lots of good posts from Gin to fix that to null)
and... more shit posting from Alisae.
BBT comes in with post 261 (no link) and literally votes karnos and does nothing else? Fuck outta here.
Also, Pep, not voting is ALWAYS terrible, "lol" all you want, no vote = no pressure... also do some goddamned scum hunting, you've done nothing thus far despite posting multiple times in blocks and clearly reading the thread. No, the LQ/Alisae statement in post #259 doesn't cut it.
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So, quick recap of reads:
Town
Garmr
Shannon
Null
Gin
Scum (In order from scummiest to least)
LQ
Jordan
karnos
Alisae
Pep
Need to actually bloody do something
BBT
All Alone
KTthecreeper
Lexa
Pep (who lands here as well through doing sweet fa, yet still actually posting)
vote: LicketyQuickety
Am more than happy to see a lynch on my top three (LQ, Jordan or karnos), but am voting for who I believe is most likely scum.
Also, huge apologies for the wall-o-text, will aim to post more regularly from now on to avoid this.Last edited by mastina on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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It was the fact that after everything that was obvious to respond to up to that point, he was just saying to all wagon Alisae, in essence "for the lols" so to speak. As if we were in RVS or something.
It became null though as I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt that it was just someone not that invested in the game and so replaced out, and the posts prior to that wouldn't involve much hunting. Ergo, your hunting removes the issues I had with the slot. Doesn't make you town, just means you're not deserving of being viewed as scum for someone elses actions.
Can't argue for a Pep push either, though he will be moving up my scum list unless he starts actually being useful and fast. Any of my top 3 I'm fine with, but Pep I'm not "that" certain on, same with Alisae, I just have leans that way for them. kronos and above however I've decent enough scum reads to be happy with a vote.-
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Alisae, the shit posting was part of the reasoning, not all of it. You've also not answered why my post was a town post, I'd still like that answered.
All Alone doing absolutely sod all is bad. As in super terrible. All that has happened, and you turn up, unvote and nothing else? No. Do something. Definitely moved into the scum read territory.
LQ, you say your case on shannon is still ongoing. In all fairness unless someone is scum then their cases should always be ongoing and fluctuating. Otherwise you're playing the wrong game.
Not liking LQs pushing of Garmr over trivial stuff. It's not like Garmr has been solid in saying "Alisae will flip town". So pushing it makes no sense at this stage. If Garmr is actually scum, all you've done is make him be more careful. If you honestly thought it was a tell, you would have been better waiting for him to make a solud mistake. Thus it feels like it's forced, as though trying to get town reads away from Garmr.
I can sort of accept Lexa's reasoning, though a single vote is not pressure in any form, especially so early in day one. So a reaction test for AA there was a non starter. Will properly judge once she gets more active.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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1) Same difference really.
2) you're the one suggesting he "knows" Alisae is town, and then pushed it.
3) I'll give you that, though I'll also point out it doesn't change that regardless of play style, if it seems there's scum motivation for doing what you're doing, it will look scummy. Thus a terrible job of making it seem like Garmr knows Alisae is town, without catching a slip, just seems like scum attempting to get peoples reads of Garmr changed.
Also, I said the same as Shannon regarding ongoing reads, got a totally different response... Doesn't seem genuine really. Like, I get a pass, shannon gets pressure? Hmmm...-
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So... AA and BBT do nothing of anything for ages, and charge right in and vote the person who called them out for doing feck all, sure, sounds legit.
If either of you have any sort of case though please share it with the class. Can hardly respond to votes when there's no content there. At the same time, reads on everyone else rather than tunnelling would also be beneficial to town. (If you're town it helps us hunt, if you're scum, well... it'll help the rest of us hunt)-
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Just not a fan of doing nothing, then acting like someone's scummy and voting for them while providing no information.In post 413, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Why are you uppity? Where is this coming from?In post 410, PranaDevil wrote:So... AA and BBT do nothing of anything for ages, and charge right in and vote the person who called them out for doing feck all, sure, sounds legit.
If either of you have any sort of case though please share it with the class. Can hardly respond to votes when there's no content there. At the same time, reads on everyone else rather than tunnelling would also be beneficial to town. (If you're town it helps us hunt, if you're scum, well... it'll help the rest of us hunt)
However BBTs recent posting is fine, in understanding his reasoning I mean, as unlike me he was updating as he went, thus saw my few posts prior to that which very much could look like scum keeping their head down up to said wall. Perfectly fine reasoning. I'm going to say AA clearly doesn't have that reasoning as they quoted from said wall. Thus outside of OMGUS voting, I expect an actual case on me sooner than later from them.
Not going to say AA is scum for it, they may well have good reasons. It would be a bold scum move to charge in and go all guns a-blazing on someone with no votes, though I never completely rule things out.-
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With the LQ thing, I'm not sure. Until there are flips it's hard to say regarding motivation. Both ways are plausible, and with all three high in my scum reads it's clear I'm wrong somewhere, the whole thing is a mess, though karnos doesn't help things as I struggle to understand his meaning half the time. Anyone who's played with him before know if that's standard behaviour, or if he's normally understandable? Could be scum that's struggling to argue a point after the fact, could be terrible explanations in general.
Definitely happy to pressure KTs slot too. The vote will depend on initial responses, but pressure there needs to happen in question form at least.-
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I'm definitely getting more of a town vibe from LQs postings, regular pushing of people, aiming for reactions. Plus I've deliberately done stuff that looked weird in the past to get a read on someone, so for now at the very least, LQ gets moved into the slight town read for me.
Jordan doesn't feel like he's doing much for me, flying under the radar a fair bit, so I'm keeping my possible scum opinion there.
Karnos still seems scummy, but again, that could easily be through style of play and such, but everything he posts just gives me an air of stretching for something.
All Alone dives into scum spot 1 though by still not actually doing anything, and omgus'ing while acting like stating he is gives him a free pass.
LQs attempts at garnering reactions, in hindsight, seem more genuine, AAs feel like is an attempt to slide onto a relatively popular wagon and pretend it's nothing.
vote: All Alone
AA, why should we not lynch you today? Noting your activity (or lack thereof), and the inability to do any scum hunting so far.
Oh yeah, BBT, more content please. I liked the initial stuff, but more substantial posting with current reads would be good.
Apologies for typos and other stuff, typing on a phone at 1am doesn't allow the best typing experience... nor the most awake, this is more what I am feeling at this stage in the game.-
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Garmr, regarding karnos, as he's still comfortably in my top 3 scum reads, I'm totally happy to lynch him when the time comes. My vote will sit on whoever I'm most suspicious of at any time (usually, sometimes pressure is needed). But when it's lynch time I'll always be happy to stick my vote on anyone I have a scum read on. So assume I have some sort of ghost vote on karnos and will be happy to hammer should the need arise.
Also, shannon, did you miss where I said I was getting town vibes from LQ? He's dropped out of my scum reads, so not only is a vote on him bad at that point, but All Alone was clearly scummy.
As far as voting with people I read as scum... well that's going to be par for the course with this game anyway. I find Jordan and karnos to be scummy. If I vote karnos I'm automatically voting alongside Jordan.
Onto TBs dance, I can see why people would say it's scummy. I can also see it very likely isn't. I see no scum motivation to be that blatant in their actions, if TB were scum I'd expect there to be much more of a gap between the start and end of that 180. I also see it as something scum would be more than happy to latch onto and push for a lynch, which makes me question Alisae immediately there.
Not sure I like Garmr's accusation about the scum on AAs wagon either, though that could be that Lexa is unlikely to have attempted to push another wagon over karnos' (as per Garmr's statement) by being on it since RVS , LQ and TB I lean town on, and I'm the other. It also relies on karnos being scum, which isn't certain. If he flips scum then by all means, review counter wagons and such, but if he flips town a counter wagon would be pointless, meaning it comes from a town perspective (that or scum trying to see who may be an easier mislynch).-
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Karnos, calm your temper, calling someone an asshole only makes me want to PL you now. This is a game where we should be critical of everyone (even town reads), there's no benefit to getting pissed off at some for having a case on you and it doesn't lead to a fun experience for anyone.
What I will say is (without looking back over things as I'm on a phone at the moment... unlimited phone data is good, but no home internet is bad, and I have limited tethering, until Feb 7th most posting will be via the phone, but then will be more careful with data and spread it evenly), I like karnos' point regarding Jordan's complete contradiction. So on that point I want to hear how Jordan plans to explain himself, as it does scream scum forgetting something they said earlier.-
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Explain. I still view Jordan as scummy, but not Garmr, so would like to see where you got this conclusion from.In post 656, karnos wrote:XnadrojX & Garmr share a PT. Probably because they are both scum.-
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There's literally nothing for them to explain. You made a baseless statement, gave nothing to back it up, and now expect them to explain something they clearly won't agree with (even if they are scum, they're highly unlikely to admit to having a PT). So, again, get explaning. You've shot up on my scum read for that, so I'm completely happy to vote for you over AA if your next response doesn't give a legitimate explanation that makes sense.-
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Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.In post 690, Alisae wrote:
You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.In post 686, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.
He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.
Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.
Can anyone explain the sudden BBT voting to me please?-
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Phone call wiped my response, will try and write it up again as close to what I initially said.
The way the karnos wagon stopped so quick is bad. I don't trust the role claim by itself, and thus the sudden diving off screams scum wanting to either avoud a lynch on a Vengeful, or scum hopping off a buddy, either way I feel scum stalled that lynch rather than town.
Alisae, why do you belueve the claim? As in, other than the claim itself, what did karnos do that made you believe it was coming from town?
Gin, why did you answer what I said to Alisae? Answering something like that just gives scum a chance to hide their intentions, it smells a bit like you're saying it on his behalf almost.
Regarding karnos self hammering, that would be a shitty idea, vengeful or otherwise. For a start, if you know someone is town you would never hammer them, same should go for self hammering. If you're town you would be voting for known town, a crap idea.
If you're scum self hammering, again, stupid idea as you reduce the odds of your side winning. Without your vote town may vote elsewhere.
In short the fact karnos didn't self hammer is not a tell in either direction, other than proving he's not a complete dumbass. In fact the only time a vengeful should be self voting is to trick scum into hammering, which is great fun in lylo (did it myself).
I also still don't het the BBT votes here. Like, seriously, explain the case beyond quoting the post, I can read that post, I can't read your reasoning. Failure to do so will result in me believing you are scum attempting to push someone for nothing.
I believe they were all the points I needed to hit.
Oh yeah, Alisae, scum might not kill him if karnos is town if they feel his scum reads are off and may kill someone else if he's lynched, especially as, if he is town, at this stage he would be an easy mislynch for scum. Plus, if there are protective roles they may protect him, or not NK'ing him could create confusion... that's just off the top of my head, it would be a ton of WIFOM, but I can see exactly why scum would leave town karnos alive. Add in he may be scum and that's another great reason he could survive night.
EBWOP: Yeah, that unvote was definitely bollocks, TB, explain yourself.-
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No, there's a difference between believing I was wrong, and knowing it. Unless you are privvy to peoples roles and alignments, you definitely do not "know" I was wrong. Plus, either way, you stepped in before the person it was directed at could say anything. I will again point out there is zero town reason for that as it lessens available info, both on me and Alisae, that could have been used later.
Also the fact you refuse to give any reasons behind BBTs post being scum worthy concerns me a lot.-
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To me it legitimately reads like Alisae actively knows karnos will flip town, now I'll give people benefit of the doubt at times, but I'll also expect them to back up what they are saying. You failed to let hom do that and gave him a comfortable "out" if any pressure came from it, how is that anything but scummy?
Also, BBTs post can only be seen as scummy if you are doing to that post, that which you claimed I did to Alisaes.... soo....-
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It's the wording of the post to me. The line "scum will just NK him" screams that they know scum will kill him. Not "they might", no "what if he's scum?" In there at all, just "scum will kill him". Alisae can say he believes the claim, but short of actually being scum, Alisae wouldn't know someone's alignment, meaning there should always be doubt. So what if karnos is scum? Scum would hardly NK him then would they?
But, as that was all ignored, it, to me, reads that Alisae somehow knows karnos would flip town, as otherwise there would still be uncertainty.-
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How is it misrepresentation? It's only read that way because of someone who isn't Alisae claiming it.
Also, I'm not saying for certain one way or another, as I'm trying to work out things myself. Karnos has bern a high scum read for me all day, and suddenly Alisae thinks he's town and a legit claim out of nowhere saves him.
Incidentally, why is he town again Alisae? The claim doesn't make him town at all.
Which again leads to me other issue... if he is scum, why would scum NK him? Are we suggesting we suddenly keep karnos alive to lylo on the basis of a single vengeful claim or something? As that's how we lose games people. I'm not getting why karnos is suddenly town, why BBT is suddenly scummy for that one post, nor am I even understanding my own reads as now, in my head, I have karnos as a super scummy read, and Alisae as a scum read on the basis he knows karnos is town... which negates my prior read of karnos entirely, and tgat legitimately confuses the fuck outta me, and 1am is not the time to be trying to work that one out.
So in all honesty, my intent for tomorrow is check over karnos and Alisae with a fine tooth comb and see if I can make sense of what the smeg happened.-
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Right, I'm properly awake, and I'm going to start checking over things (via laptop in fact to make things better), starting with where karnos pointed out Jordan's contradiction in post #651
There was no contradiction upon actually checking it out. The first was a town read on Alisae, the second was not liking cases based off what scum would or wouldn't do. That's fine. There's a difference between a read and a case. I'll also however say that I kinda like stuff about whether scum are likely to do something. Sure it can be WIFOM, but if used in addition to other stuff it can be a great help.
Garmr is also correct about town can be hypocritical at times. Especially in long games, plus memory (or lack thereof) can be a thing. However it does depend on situation, so its always worth investigating... hell, everything's worth investigating.
karnos post #656 still hasn't been explained, and has gone straight under the radar since his claim.
One thing i want to put a stop to is the bullshit "shade" business.. fuck off with that crap. You should be questioning EVERYONE, not tunneling a single sodding person, so yes, it's 100% fine to make a case, or critique someone, or point out scummy shit, even if you are not voting for them. Shade is some new bullshit that's clearly cropped up in my time away from the site, and as far as I can tell it's a cracking device scum will be able to use to claim someone looks scummy without them actually being scummy. So literally every argument I see with "shade" in it is being disregarded as "I haven't a fucking clue what I'm on about and don't understand how to scum hunt" from here on in. If you aren't questioning reason behind posts, and pushing multiple people you're playing the game wrong. Ergo, it's perfectly fine to go "hey guys, this looks scummy as fuck, my main scum pick is X, but this post by Y needs more attention". Especially as we know there's more than a single scum in the first place, and, being human, we will make mistakes. Much as I'd love us to hit scum every lynch, the chances of it are minimal, so even a top scum read could be wrong, and our top town read could be wrong.
In post 672, karnos wrote:You know what, go for it.
I don't have the patience to try to break of a clique of fanatics.
Just make sure you lynch XnadrojX & Garmr, in that order, after me.
These two do not match up, as AA points out above, karnos suggesting we lynch Jordan tomorrow, then claiming Jordan will be killed by him just shows it was a desperate claim.In post 676, karnos wrote:Anyway, after I die, XnadrojX will flip scum. Please lynch his obv partner Garmr tomorrow.
Yes, this is a serious claim.
Something else really doesn't match up either.
That bit in bold, does not match up with:In post 690, Alisae wrote:In post 686, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.
He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.
Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.
You believe the claim... and feel karnos is a great lynch? These do not match, it's one or the other. he's either a great lynch for being scum, OR he's town, and thus would be a bad lynch. The two cannot co-exist.In post 700, Alisae wrote:
Okay, why wouldn't scum kill him?In post 697, PranaDevil wrote:Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.
And I believe the claim.
I also really dislike Alisae's "intent to hammer" post, only to derail the entire thing so quickly, and then point out we have "15 days left, no need to lynch". Why the sudden change right there too?
I'm also going t totally contradict myself now I'm more awake and re-reading it, I honestly don't think Alisae derailed the karnos wagon through not wanting to lynch known town. I'm actually of the view Alisae is scum, but so is karnos.
Yep, I want explanation, I'm reading my stuff this morning and even I can understand that it reads a bit shitty. So please tell me why they are bad? (Well... Alisae's is but that's because he's scum)In post 742, ThinkBig wrote:
Please explainIn post 740, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:These Prana votes are superrrrrr bad.
LQ, why is shannon's post "shady" (urgh) as fuck? it's a perfectly fine post, though I will admit I no longer agree about scum "will" NK karnos, instead I kind of read it as directing the possible doc that way to open up any NK they want. If the doc protects the "vengeful" we have no protection elsewhere...
So if we don't end up lynching karnos (we still totally should, that's 100% the ideal lynch for the day), if there's a doc... don't sodding well go there, protect someone who may actually be town instead.
Deal. Up until this point you have (in order) :In post 755, All Alone wrote:In post 542, PranaDevil wrote:All Alone dives into scum spot 1 though by still not actually doing anythingIn post 542, PranaDevil wrote:the inability to do any scum hunting so far.
Wow this is some really amazing analysis you guys! Try readingIn post 560, ThinkBig wrote:has made no attempt to scum hunt or solve the game. He has yet to post any reads or any analysis of his own.anything at all I've posted after the UNVOTE post.
Asked why you'd have no scum reads as scum
Said your tactics are more reactive (yet at this stage, done nothing)
Voted for me
Decided I was town and went for LQ, with no reasoning beyond "OMGUS"
And here we are... so I stand by my previous statement, you've done sod all.
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So, as it stands, my opinion is thus:
karnos is scum, the vengeful claim is quite clearly bullshit as already pointed out by AA above, my vote stays on karnos as I want him lynched, like yesterday.
Alisae quite obviously wanted that wagon to dissipate and move elsewhere, I'll happily admit I cocked up royally (hey, I was at a gaming group when I read things first, then was knackered when I got home, I'll refrain from reading/posting when doing stuff or being tired in future, and you may all slap me if I deviate from this), and the push on Alisae, while a correct push, was the wrong reasoning. Alisae is scum along with karnos, and I'd be happy to lynch this way, but a karnos lynch is a huge preference as the wagon should not fall apart.
As it stands, I'm only willing to lynch one of these two right now, and I'll even throw in a special super sexy deal. If people are unsure if I'm scum or if karnos is scum if somehow he "is" a vengeful (he's not, and we all know this), then he should fire at me then you get rid of your other scum read as well.
That's literally how confident he'll flip scum I am, as he wont shoot me... he's not a vengeful, he's the scummiest scum that ever scummed.-
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First, at L-3 when its 7 to lynch, you should absolutely feel pressure, that's over halfway to a lynch, that means you're see as super scummy, especially as you've been the number 1 wagon pretty much since the start. I also don't buy you not feeling pressure anyway, your arguments scream respoding to pressure.
Also, no, you didn't "repeat the lie" regarding Jordan an then have things change suddenly. You were ALREADY at L-1 when you "repeated the lie", Alisae then said he intended to hammer, and then you claimed.
There was no gap there, I just checked, its an outright lie.
Can we lynch the scumz nao plez?-
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Is it bad I lolled at the kangaroo court bit?In post 778, karnos wrote:
What is this kangaroo court, someone who is already voting offering permission to hammer? This means nothing.In post 774, PranaDevil wrote:31 pages of content, we've tons to look back on, I'm fine with a hammer.
Also, if someone not on the wagon was fine with a hammer... they would also be willing to hammer, so...-
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karnos, please use the nn-existent venge-kill on me, I beg of you. Especially as I said pressure not "claim", blatant misrepping of what I said.
Gin, you definitely are nowhere near worth protecting for the doc. If anyone is reading you as solid town they're nuts, there's so many better places for that protection such as Garmr and shannon, plus it depends on karnos' flip too.
In saying that, why the statement that you are dead? Why should a karnos lynch mean you get NK'd?-
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At this stage I'm null reading you, so we'll have less of that "putting words in my mouth" stuff there please. Just because I don't town read you doesn't mean I scum read you. I just seriously dont get you as town, I just see you as "there".
Also, "everyone" is a stretch, I've seen a couple, that would be like me saying "everyone" views me as town because a few people have stated as much, what's more, that's meaningless as views can (and should) change as we go anyway.
Add in that we have no clue what scum are thinking, and who's to say they don't have a better angle to go? Or would want to cast doubt on an "obv town" slot? Any argument, especially before the first flip, about who scum will kill and why, is WIFOM. Add in that directing the doc like that merely opens up everyone else to being targeted (it would literally be saying, everyone else is a free kill), and it's not pro-town. It's not scummy, but it's not pro-town either.
Incidentally... what are your views on karnos and how he's going to flip? As in right this second, are you against the entire wagon, do you like the lynch?-
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I don't need to debate the ins and outs of a claimed misrep, I was pointing out you said you didn't feel pressure on you at L-3, I stated you should do, I never stated that should be a claim.
I also pointed out that where you claimed you went from suggesting we lynch Jordan and Garmr tomorrow to you suddenly getting two votes and needing a claim was a fabrication. Meaning the reason for the lie was non-existent too.
And that, Gin, reads that you believe the claim. Is there any reason yu believe it beyond what appears to be "scum wouldn't say it"?-
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All that night phase time, and Alisae is trying to make out I'm scum for something I admitted I was reading wrong at the time, I'd have figured scum could have spent night phase actually looking at the thread...
I made my case on Alisae before, and Karnos' flip is further evidence Alisae is scum (for those that missed it... first, why aren't you reading properly? Second, Alisae was very very eager to get the wagon elsewhere after the "claim").-
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What in the hell was that all about? I go to bed confident we have scum strung up, and wake up to seeing you all go sodding nuts and lynch LQ! What the hell?!
However, we at least gained some much needed information with that lynch, along with information from before.
First, I don't see Garmr doing that as scum, and definitely not to lynch a VT, scum gain nothing by being so heavy on a town lynch, especially one that could be directed back at them. Garmr is, at least in my mind, confirmed town from this point forward.
I'm also going to say, there was definitely scum on there, it would be unlikely for that wagon to get that much steam without at least one scum giving it a nudge forward at an opportune time, which brings me to the same person who should have been yesterday's lynch...
Alisae.
100%, may as well at this point be waving a great big flag saying "scum is here, lynch me please".
What's that? You want a case? Sure, here it is:
First, everything from Day 1, which has been done to death regarding the fact he blatantly attempted to derail the karnos wagon, but to sum up:
1 - Shows intent to hammer post #680
2 - Believes karnos' fake claim, yet still says karnos is a great lynch post #690 and post #700
3 - Uses the argument that there's much more time to "hunt" day 1 post #705
The intent to hammer doesn't match with there being more time to hunt, and the believing of the claim doesn't match with him being a "great lynch". Both of these are mutually exclusive from the other.
This is a huge pile of bullshit as well. It's quite clear Alisae is ignoring the entire reason i admitted a mistake, yet continued to push him, purely to make it seem like I'm in the wrong. Evidence? Provided.In post 911, Alisae wrote:
First thing to note: They scumread Karnos but they voted LQ.In post 908, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Alisae, talk about Prana and explain that read, I'm not letting you vote thinkbig
Second thing to note: They scumread Karnos but then voted AA
Third thing to note: They finally voted Karnos.
Forth thing to note: They attack me because they think that I slipped that I knew Karnos was town when he clearly did not flip town. They were pushing a slip that wasn't a slip.
Fifth thing to note: They admit that that was a mistake but they still push me anyway.
Sixth thing to note: Where are they currently? Hiding under all the drama I'm making.
That's snipped from the end of a longer post I made where I admitted the mistae I made the night prior due to being tired, and not reading it thoroughly.In post 759, PranaDevil wrote:Alisae quite obviously wanted that wagon to dissipate and move elsewhere, I'll happily admit I cocked up royally (hey, I was at a gaming group when I read things first, then was knackered when I got home, I'll refrain from reading/posting when doing stuff or being tired in future, and you may all slap me if I deviate from this), and the push on Alisae, while a correct push, was the wrong reasoning. Alisae is scum along with karnos, and I'd be happy to lynch this way, but a karnos lynch is a huge preference as the wagon should not fall apart.
We lynch Alisae today, no ifs or buts, I'm ot letting scum get away again.
Also, EBWOP, TB, I understand your reasoning regarding Garmr getting the lynch away from Alisae, and it is something to keep in mind, but what positives does scum Garmr get from making himself a viable lynch today by being so obvious and vocal with the lynch? I don't even mind rushed lynches at times. If the scum is obvious (Alisae), we should keep scum from finding out any additional information that would lead to finding out about a power role.
Speaking of which... All Alone's only actions D1 were to vote Alisae and vote LQ, which makes me wonder if he had already used one of his roles on Alisae, and was happy to lynch LQ with the evidence provided, and come back to Alisae on a later day. It wouldn't be the correct play, (always lynch known scum) but I can see an argument for how convincing the LQ lynch was.
vote: Alisae-
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Looking at BBTs ISO, I could see an argument in them being scum, next to no discussion, no actual contribution to discussion. However two thing make me believe he's not scum. First, he was on karnos early, and had tons of time and options to get off that wagon and go elsewhere, especially with so little contributed, it wouldn't be hard for him to argue jumping to another wagon to get off a buddy, he didn't, therefore I don't believe BBT would be scum with karnos.
Second, the sudden hammer of LQ, I'd accept a quick hammer from scum in LyLo or MyLo, but not that early into day 2.
Put together, and I'm not feeling BBT as scum.
Garmr, you are solidly behind Alisae being town, and you've provided no reason as to why. Now I'm reading you as confirmed town at the moment, so it leads to the question... why? You say Alisae has done worse as town in the past, that's all fine and dandy, but why is he not scum now? These aren't situations where Alisae changed an opinion after re-looking over everything, or coming to a better conclusion (see: My change in stance regarding him believing karnos was obv. town when he was clearly getting away from the wagon), they are literal opposing views. Karnos is town, but is also a great lynch... this has not yet been explained. Preparing to hammer karnos, but wanting to use two more weeks of discussion... again, how does that prove they are town? It doesn't... but it's great evidence they are scum.
What doesn't help is you trying to keep the lynch off Alisae so much, yet never giving an explanation beyond "he's done it before". That's not a legitimate argument, and Alisae needs to be todays lynch without fail. We screwed up yesterday by lynching LQ after getting distracted from obv. scum, and I see no reason for us to do the same today. I'm all for looking at others and using the day phase t the best of our ability, but I want Alisae lynched, like yesterday.-
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Except scum wouldn't because they would wait until you stated who you went for... with 13 players it's likely there's more than two scum, and we already have one killed. I'd be shocked if any left went "I'm a miller" suddenly without knowing if any of the others were the one investigated.In post 1113, Alisae wrote:By not saying who I had a guilty on, I was hoping that whoever was scum would fakeclaim miller because they could have gotten scared that I potentially invested them.
Ergo... your claim makes zero sense from a town perspective, but it does make sense from a scum perspective, especially suddenly backtracking when you're told to back it up, as you realise if you get a lynch going off false information today, you are automatically tomorrow's lynch. Unfortunately you'd have been better sticking to the original plan, get someone lynched, then move forward with a plan tonight knowing you're gone tomorrow, because as it stands you're getting lynched today.
So... two down, one to go, after Alisae flips I want everyone checking back to get some solid reads, especially as if Gin's claim is correct (I have no reason to doubt it at this point) we have three confirmed town in a block, I'd be shocked if that doesn't reduce to two for tomorrow, (would be dumb scum who didn't fire that way, but it does mean any protective roles should pick one of those three to protect, just do not specify who's being protected in thread, keep scum guessing). Which means the last scum will be in the remaining pool of players.-
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No mass claim for Christ's sake. Waiting to get at the computer to do a type up (had started yesterday then had to collapse due to tiredness), but checking on the phone, a mass claim would just gove scum better direction in future night phases. If you have solid information like Gin yesterday, go for it, otherwise stay quiet.
The exception is obviously Lexa who has some questions to be answering obviously.-
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Scrapped my original writing, in my sleepless state even I couldn't work out what i was saying, and the Lexa stuff brings to light some other stuff.
First off, I'm happy to view Gin and TB as confirmed town. My reasoning for this is that Gin could only be lying if BBT was scum. Otherwise Gin would have been scum praying BBT wasn't a vig. As BBT was vanilla town, Gin is town for certain, which means TB is as well, so look at these guys only to see why they're being kept alive, as I'm confused.
That leaves:
Lexa, Myself, shannon, Pep and Garmr
This is where focus has to be for the remainder of the game.
This is where I want to do vote analysis of the lynches.
Day 1:karnos(scum)
Garmr,XnadrojX,BlueBloodedToffee, PranaDevil,All Alone, shannon,ThinkBig
We know Jordan, BBT, AA and TB are town, which leaves:
Garmr, Myself, shannon
I'm going to be certain that someone was bussing to attempt to make sure they got town points, so one of those three is scum.
Day 2:LQ(town)
Garmr,All Alone,Alisae, shannon,TheRealGin-N-Tonic,BlueBloodedToffee
We know AA, Alisae, Gin and BBT are town, which leaves:
Garmr, shannon
I'm not accepting there was no scum on this wagon either, which means combined with day 1, one of these two is scum, for certain. That wagon took off way too quick for scum not to be aiding it.
Day 3:Alisae(town)
PranaDevil,BlueBloodedToffee,ThinkBig, Lexa,TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Again, known town are BBT, TB and Gin, leaving:
Myself, Lexa
Based on Gin's response from his check of Lexa, I'm more than happy to accept Lexa scum on this (I'm more than happy to accept that to anyone else this would be me wanting to lynch not-me, but Gin's investigation result should help confirm this)
So the most likely scum comes down to:
one of Garmr/shannon thanks to day 1 and 2
one of me/Lexa thanks to day 3
Lynch among this pool and we win.
Also, I'm not voting until Pep posts today, I don't want a lynch before he posts, so I refuse to place a vote until he does for fear of another quick lynch. But for all intents and purposes, based on the fact it's clearly between me and Lexa from day 3, and Gin's investigation, my vote is on Lexa. However for obvious reasons I could accept a lynch of shannon or Garmr. But to me, Lexa is more confirmed scum than the 50/50 chance of Garmr/shannon.-
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I agree Pep-scum is a possibility, though at that point it doesn't ignore the fact scum were definitely on lynches day 1 and day 2, as one lynch I could somewhat accept at a push, but not normally this early, and at that point we would then be looking more at Myself, you (Garmr) and shannon, while ignoring Lexa who wasn't on either of the first two wagons. As I don't believe scum wouldn't bus their buddy, even if just the one of them. So one of us three must be scum.
That means if Pep is scum, Lexa likely isn't, which I don't feel matches up, and in fairness, I don't feel you do either as you've voted Lexa yourself. Meaning you would be of the opinion of a potential Lexa/Pep scum team? I still don't believe that in two lynches scum weren't on either, which wouldn't match up with Lexa/Pep as a team.
In fact... Pep scum would mean that at least one lynch happened without scum on it. Of us other four, day 1 had no Lexa, day 2 had no Lexa or myself, and day 3 had no shannon or Garmr. I still don't feel that fits. I'll accept it's not solid evidence that Pep can't be scum, but with karnos' actions it was easy for scum to bus him. In fact arguing for the three people on his wagon.
Garmr could have been bussing, then karnos imploded at which point it was impossible to get off before the wagon picked up steam.
Myself and shannon could be argued were hopping on when it picked up steam, despite us both heavily pushing him as well.
So I'd say all three of us could be on the wagon with possible scum motives behind it, the only knowledge all three of us have are our roles which we need to convince others of.
Day 2 was just Garmr and shannon that aren't flipped town or confirmed town at this stage, and that lynch was so quick I'm 100% scum was on it, so something is up there
Day 3 was myself and Lexa, and I again think scum were on here, so eliminating myself (solely for myself, not for others) means I deduce it must be Lexa. If any wagon had no scum on it I would argue it would be this one as Alisae was so scummy it would be easy for scum to avoid ad let the lynch happen naturally. However the recent Lexa stuff stops that I feel.
Speaking of which, I'd also like Garmr to explain the reasoning behind Roleblocker being a scum claim, I have a theory, but I want to see if it matches up with mine.-
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Hold on... another JOAT claim, AND a roleblocker claim.... so that's three JOATs in the wild (well, 2 alive now)... I'm not buying all these claims. As i said before, another JOAT claim imbalances this game, and it's very easy on day 4 to say "yeah, I did these things and these people are still alive".
It doesn't change my statement though.
Scum is in shannon/Garmr
scum is in myself/Lexa-
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I think if you believe Gin is scum with TB, why did you bodyguard him, and say you hoped scum killed him? Surely you should bodyguard elsewhere? Also how would you dying through bodyguard prove Gin was town then? Wouldn't it just show you died and not that Gin was protected in that scenario?
I'm happy with a Lexa/shannon team at this point-
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I honestly can't answer that. Which gives me two options:
Lexa lied about being a roleblocker due to being caught out
Lexa is a town RB and had no intention of targetting someone who was seeming (and I still say, despite shannon's attempt at saying otherwise) town.
Though I stand by my vote count analysis, which I admit could lead to my lynch if people believe Lexa is telling the truth, though at tgat point do we go for shannon out of the shannon/garmr pair? I mean nobody is going to convince me scum wasn't on that day 2 wagon it wwent by so quick, and (for me at least) so out of left field.-
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Great theory, but I just checked the moment that happened. LQ had just been put at L-1, by yourself no less. I'd say it's a very safe bet that a Lexa-Pep scum team would have Lexa vote her scum mate if it was obvious the LQ lynch was happening anyway. (Especially if Pep has legitimately been MIA on the scum side) Keeps her off the mislynch while if Pep does end up lynched and flipping scum, it's great "see, I'm town" fodder.In post 1291, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote: Side note, at this point, I don't believe Lexa and pep can both actually be scum, as there would be no way in hell scum bus D2 because they'd be rightly fucked, especially at day start.
My previous view still stands though, and I've seen and heard nothing to change my mind on where the scum is. It's me or Lexa, and shannon or Garmr. As soon as we hear from Pep, or his replacement, my vote will be on Lexa for obvious reasons (namely, if it's between me and Lexa, and I know I'm town... Lexa must be the scum of the two of us).
As an aside too, can we stop the crap posting regarding trying to get page tops and all that crap? Its bollocks that doesn't need to be there, and just clutters things up for everyone involved.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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Garmr has always been my strongest town read, so off that alone i'd say shannon seems more likely scum.
I also really do not like how she tried to make out Gin and TB were scum considering I even went over why that's not possible (BBT flipped vanilla, and being as Gin used his gunsmith on him, it would be way too risky to claim that as scum if it turned out BBT was a vig or something).
On the flip side, Garmr pushed heavily for LQ's lynch, wanted to lynch TB yesterday, and then threw a massive hissy fit that amounted to "I was on the karnos wagon, I lynched scum, I can't be scum", with a side of "if it wasn't for me karnos wouldn't have been lynched", which I feel is taking a lot of credit where it's not necessarily due, as lots of people were pushing karnos, and his seeming meltdown didn't help his cause either, if anything he lynched himself.
So, I favour shannon as a lynch over Garmr on that side of things.
Also shannon, I'd like to hear from you regarding my statement about the BBT/Gin stuff (namely Gin-scum having to do guesswork above)-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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No shannon, this, or more specifically, the bit in brackets.In post 1314, PranaDevil wrote:I also really do not like how she tried to make out Gin and TB were scum considering I even went over why that's not possible (BBT flipped vanilla, and being as Gin used his gunsmith on him, it would be way too risky to claim that as scum if it turned out BBT was a vig or something).
<<< Fixed quote tag...I think. >>>Last edited by mastina on Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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It's plausible, but why risk taking a buddy with him? Also, considering how confirmed town Gin and TB should be, is it not plausible that, should either of them not be tonight's scum target they will be obvious lynch targets tomorrow (I hate how now I've mentioned it, it will become WIFOM if they don't die, but I need to mention it in regards to the possibility of them lying about the claim, ergo it would have been a completely awful plan).
Plus as said before, neither were in danger of being a target, so Gin had no reason to reveal, especially as if someone had another role that could check if he was lying he'd be caught out in an instant. Add in that he THEN was able to deduce Lexa was not vanilla prior to her revealing as such... there's way too many things that point to Gin-town than Gin-scum. If he had been backed into a corner I could see him reaching suddenly, but there was no pressure at all, just the feeling that if he didn't announce findings he might not get a chance to. Seems town to me.
On the flip side, your claim came after I made my VCA post that pretty much solidifies yourself or Garmr as scum, and solidifies myself or Lexa as scum. Yet all your claim brings to the table is "I looked after these guys, honest", especially as you used your protective shots on the guy who, as I say, should be confirmed town for everyone, only to then make out he should be the lynch... it really, really doesn't smell right.
Also, in keeping with my "not voting until Pep gets here" stuff, my non-existent vote is still on Lexa, but at this point I would be happy to see a shannon lynch as well, though I still favour Lexa. Thus when Pep gets here my vote will go there (unless it would be a hammer... bollocks to a rushed day again, Pep needs to answer questions and such as well, just showing up wont help, and I won't count it as a done deal to allow a hammer).-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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For a start, you can't claim people aren't "taking it seriously" by not instantly believing your claim, as nobody has any reason to believe it, it's blatant AtE. Just because people have pointed out legitimate reasoning as to why you could easily be scum fake claiming, and essentially claiming that because people aren't listening to you and taking everything you say at face value is people not taking it seriously.In post 1331, shannon wrote:I don't think there's anything I can say to convince anyone that my claim is real, so I'm going to prodge from here on in, until someone decides to take it seriously and look at the other options.
((Additional crackpot theory: Prana knows that G+T's results and the VCA do exactly what she says, and points to her or lexa vs. me and garmr. But actually both she and lexa are scum. She's going to use lexa's flip to get town cred, then go after either of pep, gamr or me for the win. I've seen a similar strategy before))
Secondly, I'm a he, male all up in here.
Thirdly... are you honestly suggesting LQ's quick lynch where even HE didn't get a chance to respond, or even claim, had no scum on it? At least with Alisae's there was time for him to respond, but LQ was strung up without him even knowing it. I didn't even know what had happened, I woke up and the thread was locked and LQ done in. There is no chance that was a total town wagon not a chance in hell. Because if me and Lexa are scum together, as you suggest, Day 2 had no scum on that wagon.
So my very blunt question is "do you believe Day 2's wagon had no scum on it?"
This, so much this, you don't make a crappy theory, ignore any and all points that it's obvious Gin is town because there are too many leaps of logic and crossed fingers for it to be anything else, and then go "welp done what I can"... no, either start looking at things to prove your case, or accept you were wrong and start looking for other stuff. Town should always be looking for scum, scum on the other hand can quite happily attempt to get by without actually hunting, and your Gin theory is very much on the second, and not the first, as you've given up hunting.In post 1336, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Oh no, if I'm scum, you go back into the game and investigate to see if my actions line up with your theory, not some ultimatum saying "lynch this because it's not me"
Also not a fan of shannon's vote on Lexa, to me it smells like a bus, as if it's obvious where the lynch is going to be, and so buses her partner while trying to stitch someone else up. Reason being, if Lexa is lynched and flips scum, the logical direction is to focus on shannon and Garmr, at that point we lynch them in succession and win. However if shannon can make a third player seem a possible lynch (namely me), there's a chance we'll lynch Garmr and myself instead of her, and thus game won for scum.
I'm pretty confident the VCA stuff covers all probabilities, and if not for the fact that it would be a risk for town because it would put us in LyLo two days running, I'd be happy to have me lynched to show that Lexa has to be scum from the D3 wagon, which leaves shannon/Garmr as the third scum.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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AtE is the bit where you started saying you had nothing to say as nobody was listening to you and nobody was being serious. It has nothing to do with any role or any potential night actions, and everything to do with you pretending to have a mini hissy fit.In post 1342, shannon wrote:I am getting frustrated when you are calling my claim ATE because it's not, it's my actual role and actual night actions. There's nothing I can say to you that will show you that what I am saying is true, you are going to have to flip me to be sure. Even then, you've achieved nothing except killing a townie because I don't have investigative results.
You are talking about flipping me, gamr, and Lexa, and you if people don't trust you. That's a lot of flips to get through and I don't think we have that many lynches available. Certainly I can see no reason why scum would help us out by NKing any of those people now. (Why would scum not take out someone like TB or G+T instead if they are both town?) So I am asking you to take my claim at face value.
I jailkept TB because I thought something was up with him. But I couldn't tell whether it was a 'good' up or a 'bad' one, so I jailkept figuring it would either save him or stop him doing a NK.
In my Doc on G+T I told the mod that I had no idea what was going on any more. It was a gut decision after I found LQ lynched before getting to vote. I think my message to the mod even said something like 'Poor Lickety'
I bodyguarded G+T because at that point he had claimed results and had a shot left. I figured he would be targeted for the kill, but I would die instead. I thought my role would help people to guess what had happened. Obviously there were some flaws in my reasoning but saving what might have been conf town G+T was a good move still I think.
When G+T claimed I took his role seriously because it fits with my role. I can see how three JOATs in a game makes a theme, and also how his and my roles go together. Him investigating, me protecting him. But! Yes, I always look at whether people are fake claiming. I probably need to have a document where I work out the details and then abandon the theory if it's rubbish, instead of posting it in the thread and working it out on the fly. Nonetheless, posting in the thread is what I always do. If I'm right - and occasionally one of my crackpot ideas is actually not so crackpot - I want town to be able to consider it when I'm gone.
So. I think we've pretty much established that G+T is town, and therefore TB too. My next guess is Prana. He (sorry about She before) has this whole thing mapped out, and it looks a bit too convenient for me. He has positioned himself as an either/or choice with Lexa, who looks terrible based on G+T's result. If Lexa flips scum, town is going to look at either me or Gamr. If that's the choice then obviously I think Gamr. But I don't know that it *is* the choice. What about Prana himself? He hasn't claimed a role. What about Pep the Lurker?
Holy shit what if G+T is using his scum powers but claiming the results as town, and then Prana is interpreting those in a way that works for scum?
Also I want to point out that there have been two consecutive days of quick lynches where I haven't even got to post. Look at those wagons...
You also say you took Gin's role seriously as his role fits with yours... but does that not ignore the fact AA's role clearly fit with yours as well? And therefore even by day 3 you could argue that Gin's role was a scum sided one, rather than waiting for today after you can comfortably say you used all your shots? Games aren't required to have protective roles after all.
I can see the argument about me having things all mapped out, but considering the likelihood that there was no scum on the LQ wagon (which I still don't buy), it pretty much is. And no, I haven't claimed a role, I have no intention of doing so either.
Much as I know you're town (I say know, 99% certain at any rate), this doesn't really confirm much as, regardless of flip, screwing us out of a Pep-slot response would be scummy as hell at this point, meaning scum would be sure to avoid that hammer as we're not in a LyLo situation. It's not beneficial to essentially out yourself as scum at the moment because it would be an insta-lynch the next day. A negative for either side.In post 1343, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:Considering how I could have powerlynched Lexa and ended the day but wanted Pep to talk in case he was scum should be your biggest clue that I'm not pushing a scum agenda...
I' with you to an extent with the Lexa/shannon reasoning, as I'm of the opinion one of them must be lying. However as I said above, there's no requirement for either to be in the game. Lexa claimed RB and was called out for it, essentially, not being a JOAT, which means shannon could easily make up a JOAT role that would fit.In post 1344, ThinkBig wrote:Just a thought: Does it make sense for town to have both a 1-shot JK and a full RB? A JK functions essentially as a roleblocker. If Lexa flips scum, I think Shannon might be town.
I disagree with Shannon's reasoning regarding Devil. I have a hard time seeing any scum motivation behind his post so.
Also, fucking hooray for Pep being replaced.
Questions for Titus:
What are your reads on each current player? (I accept read through may take time, on the flip side... two days of quick lynching will speed it up considerably, on the other hand, two tonnes of shit-posting may make it a slog)
What do you feel about my VCA? Do you agree/disagree with my theory that there must be scum between shannon/Garmr and myself/Lexa?
What are your thoughts on Lexa's RB claim, and shannon's JOAT claim?
What are your thoughts on shannon's Gin/TB = scum theory?
Who are your top two scum reads? And which of them do you propose should be lynched and why?-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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Glad Gun can do the VCA stuff, can someone do me the honours of linking Titus to my VCA post? I'm stuck on mobile until Sunday night/Monday morning, and won't be able to give this the reading it needs as I'm with friends. Will be able to follow through reading just before sleep/after waking, but not much more.-
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PranaDevil Mafia Scum
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Yeah, not claiming, nass claim was abandoned as it never started. People claimed for good reasons (see: Gin worrying about dying and pretty much clearing two people, with BBT's death proving that). Then Lexa was told to claim by Alisae and gave a fake claim, which made no real sense to do in the first place, then Gin investigated her and found she wasn't vanilla (which thinking about it... more proof Gin is town surely?) So she had to re-claim. Not sure about if that means she's town or not though.
Shannon claimed JOAT-doc style after Lexa's RB claim was called out, with absolutely no pressure to do so.
There's been no mass claim, and you can get stuffed if you think I'm starting it.
Also, ignoring everything else to focus on VCA does prove something else, that you miss reasoning, as proven by asking for it, and then getting really bad results. Check interactions between me and Alisae for why he was an obvious lynch, and why he should have been the lynch D2, rather than LQ who was lynched in just a few hours (I went to sleep, woke up and he's gone).
Anyway, now we have content from the Pep slot, we can at least lynch Lexa, then the shannon/Garmr pairing gets dealt with, then victory.
vote: Lexa-
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