Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Fat_Tony]

Hi all. Only had chance to read the first page of action up to now - I will catch up fully and post something (hopefully) constructive later today.

@ Johoohno: Sure thing, Batman.

(I'll also take this opportunity to point out that I am a terrible newb, so I apologise if I'm a little slow on certain issues.)

[Fat_Tony]

Right, I might as well make the first post a goodie - I'm just gonna pick up all the interesting points I find as I go through.

1-16: (Joke?) suspicion on Earwig for OMGUSfest.
25: first non-random vote against Tamuz for weird 2-vote thing.
27: Tamuz gets all Mr. Angry.
35-45: Game seems to slip back into random phase.
48: Nyktorion suggests Blackberry - RC link.
49: earwig starts to wagon blackberry - no major reason except quoting Nyk, also points out a "safe" votecount... also tries to joke about trying to appear to be someone else's scumbuddy
56: Blackberry OMGUS's earwig on the back of reasonable suspicion
60: Tar warns earwig over post 49 scumbuddy remark
64: earwig unvotes after everyone gets all feisty-like.
65: Nyk unvotes Berry. Also points out that our mod isn't numerate
67: Jester raises the notion of multiple mafia groups.
72: RC joins Nyk in voting for Ryan (RIP)
83: Bastardmod doesn't clarify "Mostly Mountainous". Bastard mod.
97, 98: RC again defending Berry. Nyk again picking up on it.
106-109: Handbags between Berry and TNE.
135: After a lot of scuffling between SlySly and Berry, Nyk switches attention to RC.
143: RC AGAIN leaps to Berry's defence.
148: Jester suggests Berry's erratic colour use to be scumtell.
149: Berry defends colour use.
151: Nyk votes RC seeking explanations which have not been forthcoming.
169: Johoohno identifies 5 most likely lynch targets, seeks discussion.
170: Blackberry doesn't like 169 (possibly since he is on it)
171: Ecto doesn't like 169, without same reason.
172-4: All sorts of suspicion towards 169.
177: RC defends Berry (yawn), votes johoohno, maybe trying to start wagon.
180: Jester is back, votes RC.
186: Mod admits lack of numeracy
191: ROTN picks up on Johoohno's mention of SK - muddying waters. votes Johoohno
198: ROTN cuts through more Johoohno-related bullshit.
BlusterBlusterBluster including Blackberry vs Ryan - "this time it's totally freaking irrelevant"
229: Anyone else getting tired of RC agreeing with berry?
231: And now Berry goes ballistic for someone daring to challenge their continual defence of one another.
242: TNE outright claims Berry and RC for scumpair.
243: Ecto gets the heebiejeebies about TNE's post. As do I.
244: RC with a typically informational OMGUS, but against TNE, so it's not all bad.


At this point I forgot to keep making notes.. I'm tired this morning. Wait, it's lunchtime, now. Just reading page 14...

[Fat_Tony]

Right... ok...

I had forgotten that my predecessor was Blackberry. All the way through that entire thread I was really unhappy with the Berry/RC connection, I think it seemed scummy as hell.

All I can basically assume is that since Berry and RC appear to have prior familiarity, they were defending each other. While I don't see quite how much sense it makes, I don't know what other conclusions to draw. Perhaps RC was even defending Berry so hard to make Berry look scummy, whilst being scum himself. From reading other games it seems that in similar situations it is the defended that gets lynched, and not the defendee. I also hate how people's attention has been completely diverted from RC by the whole TNE thing. Don't get me wrong, TNE seems scummy as all hell, too, and I don't know whose play I hate more.

johoohno makes me uncomfortable. Again he has pushed (in a roundabout, scummy way) to get on with a lynch, even though we have a fortnight to deadline. I don't know for certain that he is scum, but his actions don't shout pro-town to me.

Jester is an interesting one. Early, I was very, VERY sure he was pro-town, but something (and I wish I could tell you what, but I'm not sure myself), is telling me that everything is not as it seems. I still believe his actions are pro-town, and I certainly wouldn't advocate him as a D1 Lynch.

Earwig bugs me (geddit?!) but it's difficult for me to countenance a lynch against him when we have so little content.

Tamuz bugged me initially, but I think his actions are more pro- than anti-town.

How to boil this down?

IGMEOY: Johoohno

. I don't like your constant pushing for suspect lists, and I don't feel your current methods are pro-town. Can't quite nail you down as scum, equally am not sure you're town. And let's not start speculating about power roles. Muddy waters = anti-town.

Now, RC and TNE. At the moment, I would be happy with my vote being on either of these two. I'm not looking for a quick lynch, and I don't really think popping RC with a fourth vote does anything except perpetuate a wagon towards such a lynch - maybe later on, if nothing gets clearer, that would be a good route to go down. In the meantime;

FoS: Rosso Carne

. I think you're scum. I think you were setting up Blackberry for D1 lynch, recognising that his playstyle was just horrible and made him look divided from town.

Vote: thenextepisode

. Not one post of yours has given me confidence in you, and 242 is just a horror show. Attempting to wagon RC, while probably not a terrible lynch, and then claiming not to want a quicklynch, possibly lying about knowledge of the votecount, flat out claiming a scumpair between Berry and RC... Yuk. (And yes, I'm aware that Berry = me at this point, all I can do is tell you how I feel.) I hate the way you're playing the game, and regardless of the motive/volition behind the lies in 242, if you're town, it's working massively anti-town, and if you're scum, it's just flat out dumb. Either way, I don't think lynching you D1 would be a great loss.

Rosso Carne, my vote can still swing your way if you don't start providing us with something constructive. I don't care how pally you were with Berry, I hate the way you're playing this game and I hated the way Berry was playing this game.

@Johoohno; I hope my views on Berry's play are clear by this point. If you want any more specific analysis by all means request it and I'll look into it when I get a moment.

[Fat_Tony]

EBWOP:

Rosso Carne, my vote can still swing your way if you don't start providing us with something constructive. I don't care how pally you were

acting

with Berry, I hate the way you're playing this game and I hated the way Berry was playing this game.

[Fat_Tony]

A question to Tony:

If you did not know about your (and BB's) alignment, whom out of RC and BB would you believe to be scummier, and what would make that person stand out from the other one?

Oof. That's a good question. To be quite honest, I find RC's play to be scummier than BB, although obviously I know BB's alignment now and that is colouring my view somewhat. I don't know BB's playstyle from experience but he did profess to 'wanting to be a rebel' or somesuch (I forget the post number and am running tight for time) and had been starting a lot of arguments with his aggressive play. I don't find that as scummy as RC CONTINUALLY leaping to BB's defence every time one of these arguments started. I think RC was trying to set up a scumbuddy link between the two of them, hoping that BB would take the bullet - Like I say, from games I've read, it's usually the defended that gets the rope, not the defender.

I understand you have to take my word with a pinch of salt because BB looked anything but squeaky clean himself, and resultantly I could be maf. I can't get past RC's play as it's either APPALLING town play or clumsy scum play. The same is, however, true of TNE. I'm struggling to decide who I would prefer to see gone at the end of D1 given their play. My vote stays on TNE for now, mostly for votecount reasons. However, we really do need answers from RC, badly. If they don't come within a timeframe that is satisfactory to the majority here, I would not hate an RC lynch. I just don't think we can be certain yet.

[Fat_Tony]

Actually, I think I may have understated BB's play as aggression. It wasn't just aggression, it was scattergunning - He attacked (at various points and for various reasons - or not) Ecto, Ryan, Johoohno, TNE, Earwig and SlySly, and those were just the posts I pulled out at random whilst doing my (fairly poor) analysis. I think that Johoohno, TNE and earwig could all be argued to be scummy at this point, to varying extents (see 353 for my feelings regarding that), so it's probably just a bit of overaggression on his part, but I can see that swinging at 6 people on day one (again to varying extents) is a bit of a worry.

(parentheses are fun)

Anyway, I'm now late, never mind tight for time, so I will check in again tomorrow and see where we're at re: RC and TNE.

[Fat_Tony]

I think you missed my votes, Tar - I'll re-iterate:

Vote: thenextepisode - FoS: Rosso Carne

Actually, I accidentally used Battousai's name instead of yours when typing the vote count. Fixed. -Tar

[Fat_Tony]

I understand you have to take my word with a pinch of salt because BB looked anything but squeaky clean himself, and resultantly I could be maf.

Your predecessor was very scummy. I think your predecessor was scum. I noticed throughout all of your post, you never even once tried to deny the scumminess of your predecessor and your role, but, here you have reconfirmed the possibility of the scuminess of your role. Nice playing by you, but doesn't change the facts.

Indeed it doesn't. What's the point of me trying to say BB didn't seem scummy? He did, everyone (apart from Rosso Carne, apparently), can see it. That is the fact of all this - unfortunately you are taking it to mean that by seeming scummy, BB was scum, rather than just playing in a ridiculously clumsy way. His play was definitely anti-town, but I doubt that was by design.

I can't get past RC's play as it's either APPALLING town play or clumsy scum play. The same is, however, true of TNE.

RC and BB have BY FAR out-scummed TNE in this game IMO.

Fair enough. I don't 100% agree with you but I see where you're coming from. I didn't want to vote RC straight off the bat - don't you agree that it would have looked more like a distancing play? There's not much I can do about BB's horrible play, but I have no problem switching my vote to RC if the town are in agreement on him. I believe RC and TNE are both scum at this point.

I'm struggling to decide who I would prefer to see gone at the end of D1 given their play. My vote stays on TNE for now, mostly for votecount reasons. However, we really do need answers from RC, badly.

Votecount reasons?? Come on!!

Nice way of trying to distance from RC. If I were RC's scum partner, I would try to point that finger at TNE's newbie-ness too.

You are a much better player than your predecessor and your partner so I will save my vote to lynch you until tomorrow after we have gotten rid of RC.

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone's "newbiness". It's only my second game, so I hardly have a right to do any such thing. TNE's play has unnerved me throughout, and I seriously believe he is scum in this game. I also believe that RC is scum, and as I have said a number of times, I don't know who I would rather get rid of. I don't want us to quicklynch anyone without the town being in clear agreement about who should go (yes I know it's L-4 but with his current lurkiness a couple of pressure votes is going to make it a bit dangerous

if

- and I know it's an unlikely scenario right now - RC is town.)

At the risk of seeming OMGUS-y, are you trying to set up the D2 lynch on me already? Don't you think that's a little premature? Taking someone else's horrible play as reason for me being scum is bad, and your insistence upon describing me and RC as being partners as if there is conclusive proof is 1) inaccurate and 2) a tiny bit unnerving. Not enough to make me think you're scum - I'm hoping you're just an overzealous townie jumping the gun.

[Fat_Tony]

Nice and informative there RC. Thanks for that.

Unvote: thenextepisode, vote: Rosso Carne.

Un-FoS: Rosso Carne, FoS: thenextepisode.

Mostly because I still think you two are scummy as hell, but RC is being most unhelpful. I've scanned a couple of other games he's in and it may well just be his posting style, but seriously, you come off far too scummy and anti-town in your actions RC, and I just wouldn't have any qualms about you getting lynched at this point.

[Fat_Tony]

Personally, I don't really think that BB's aggression/scattergunning is really scummy, so for me, RC is a worthier voting target than BB. This is also covered by your answer, Tony, so this seems fine to me.

However, what one thing that does tick me off a bit is that you fear that BB's connection to RC might be the premier reason for voting you. I understand that your previous experiences might influence you here. However, I think that RC had much more pressure in this game than BB up to now, so why did you emphasize that fear so much?

Mainly because I feel that while RC was definitely scummier than Berry was, while I was doing my initial analysis of the thread I was feeling quite strongly that the 3 scum players were RC, TNE, BB. Once I realised who I was replacing, I also realised that a minimum of one of these three is innocent, and I feel my position as far as my own innocence is weakened greatly by the awful way Blackberry played the first 10 pages or so.

I am also concerned because of SlySly's notion that a D2 lynch on me is the way to go. The way I see it right now, we're almost railroading towards an RC lynch, which wouldn't upset me at all. The problem I face is, after the way RC was palling up to BB all the way through, if RC turns up scum, it's going to be mighty hard to prevent people making 2+2=5 and lynching me on D2. I don't see myself as a likely target for an NK if we go through because clearly there are suspicions against me and any sensible mafmaf is going to want to keep alive the town players that appear scummy in the eyes of the other townies. It feels as though the only way my D2 lynch isn't inevitable is either

a) I get D1 lynched, or
b) RC turns up town.

Even in b) I don't feel I'd be clear, and I blame BB's prior play for that. My scumdar is being principally set off by two players so far, RC and TNE. Hence my votes, hence my FoS. Hopefully this is just paranoia. Time will tell, and in the meantime I'm going to keep explaining my position when asked, and I'm gonna keep trying to find scum.

[Fat_Tony]

dont like the centrism.

or the fact that you could have made abuot 2 posts by now, and yet you made 50.

New player, overenthusiastic. Is it the number of posts that bothers you, or the number of posts fingering you as scum?

[Fat_Tony]

Hmm. It will be interesting to see if TNE picks up his prod, and if not, how his replacement plays things. I remain convinced that he is scum but cannot allow RC any respite.

[Fat_Tony]

Because Rosso Carne seems to be absolutely unwilling to defend himself in any way and I don't think Johoohno should be our main target here - I feel he could well be scum but with RC and TNE around (TNE also having not responded to anybody's questions about him despite having picked up the prod has been noted) I don't think Johoohno is our D1 guy.

However, I do agree that these THREE people should be prodded into action.

The main reason I am voting for RC is that I think he was trying to make out that he was in league with BB, knowing BB to be town. If BB (now me) got lynched and found to be town, it would make him come off town, if he was lynched and came up scum, prime scumbuddy suspect = BB and bang goes a townie on a mislynch. That's my read of the situation, anyway.

[Fat_Tony]

Tar - you have me down as voting AND not voting. Just so you know

I'm still not convinced of TNE but I'm happy with my vote where it is (on RC, Tar )

Yes, yes I do fail at vote counts. Why do you ask? Fixed. -Tar

[Fat_Tony]

As 'honest' as you think it could sound ecto... it still sounds scummier than high hell.

Its a blatant statement that TNE is fingerpointing and not using logic for his cases.

QFFT. Yes, the second F is a bad word.

All of you who didn't like my post 169 shouldn't be too enthusiastic about Battousai's 377 either.

To me this one really feels like a search for ending the day by narrowing down the lynch field.

@ RangeroftheNorth: I know you've asked me for my present suspects and I will give them to you, but I haven't had the time to take notes the last pages and will do a reread this weak and get up to date again.

For the time being:

Un-FoS: RangeroftheNorth
Unvote: Tamuz

Thes un-doings are not to be considered that I am not suspicious of them (they might get fos:ed and voted after my reread) but I don't want my votes and fos:es to cause any problems the coming day/s if things get rolling (seems unlikely considering the present day speed of the game, but we are getting closer to a deadline).

I agree with Johoohno re: Battousai's 377. Still doesn't excuse 169, though, and at least Battousai's post comes at a time where a deadline is in the foreseeable future, rather than page 7. A good point, nonetheless, and one which should NOT be ignored, even on the back of 169.

I look forward to your promised analysis, Johoohno.

why is tne not dead?

Because you keep making posts like that. For the record, even on the back of things like this, I would be VERY SLIGHTLY more comfortable with a TNE lynch than a RC lynch. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be perfectly happy to get rid of someone whose posts are so unconstructive from a town POV.

Yay. Now pick somebody to vote for.....

Easy, Chewie. Let's let him catch up and make a REASONED accusation, rather than pushing him into doing what TNE does. I don't like this post, for that reason.

Re: Jester's 393.

I must have assimilated that phrase into my mind when I read it without really realising it. Quite worrying as SlySly makes me nervous sometimes. You have to agree though, Blackberry's playstyle was, for want of a similar term, divisive. Can you think of a better word (besides awful, natch ) And as for what you said about not envying my replacing Blackberry... me either.

I agree with you on ROTN's post. You have a very artful way of cutting through the bullshit, and I like that.

Ooh, and now 394: Quite a wall of text, this:

Agree with you re: Ecto.

I'm comfortable with your FoS on me. Like I say, Blackberry's play basically leaves me f**ked regardless of my alignment, and I'll be astonished if I'm alive past D2. All very WIFOM-y, and I do apologise

I'm definitely reading ROTN as town. If he's scum, he is the best player on this site.

Your post on RC is insightful. Like I have said, I'm marginally more comfortable with a TNE lynch than an RC lynch because I get this weird vibe off RC that he's just trying to be antagonistic, rather than actually being scum. I can't believe how awful his play is if he's town. Jester is a decent call, but we already agreed not to speculate overly on game setup just yet.

I'm getting bored of agreeing with you. Suffice to say that your reads, by and large, are very well-explained versions of what I'm thinking, except for TNE. I just can't get over the idea that he is scum.

---

There seems to be a lot of meta stating that this is just how RC behaves D1. This worries me. I am very very fidgety about being party to a D1 mislynch if I can avoid it, and since I have a strong inkling towards TNE and an increasingly strong feeling towards Johoohno, (thanks to Jester picking out ROTN's take on him and elaborating), I think I'm going to have to do something which makes me very sad, and

Unvote

RC.

I can only hope that the meta-read from Tamuz and, to a lesser extent, Battousai is correct.

I suppose I should vote now. Looking at the votecount, it seems that two of the guys I have as being most pro-town (ROTN, Jester) are in favour of Johoohno to go, and to be honest I am feeling more and more comfortable with that as time passes. A vote on TNE isn't going to make much difference right now, even though I hate his play. However, if I jump from the RC-wagon, I fear that this pretty much nails Johoohno down for a D1 lynch, unless Earwig and Johoohno both wind up on the RCwagon, which I'm increasingly less comfortable with. Ugh, this is a bad spot to be in.

I think my hand is forced somewhat by circumstance - I'm going to have to

vote: Johoohno

. My reasons are that you seem scummier and scummier as time passes, and I agree with ROTN and Jester's analysis on you. If there was a reasonable chance of getting a TNE-wagon going, I'd be on it in a flash. There isn't and so I'm taking what I believe to be the next-safest option. To be honest, though, I'm a bit twitchy about the whole darn thing.

Clarification for Tar :

Unvote, vote: Johoohno

. FoS remains on TNE.

[Fat_Tony]

unvote, vote fat_tony

that post 400 is absoltely scummy in the way it treads water around the dead bodies you want to kill.

I'm not entirely sure I have a clue what you're on about. Thanks for the vote, though

Fat Tony,

Sure is convenient that you jump off of your partners' lynch when he hits L-

2

. You jumped of one spot sooner than I thought you would. You attempt at distancing yourself from RC by voting him didn't go unnoticed, nor was it effective.

Would you prefer I got back on? Or would that be OMGUS? Is RC just distancing himself from me now? Just some questions.

I got off the RC wagon due to the points that ROTN raised and Jester highlighted against Johoohno. I think, increasingly, that RC is just playing town in an incredibly anti-town manner. Right now I have TNE down as scum, Johoohno down as scum, and one other. It wouldn't shock me if it was you. But then, it wouldn't shock me if it was RC, or earwig, or anybody, to be honest. So now we know where I stand. And we know you don't like me. Who else don't you like?

[Fat_Tony]

Jester - fair enough, but when my reasons are the same as yours, what am I supposed to say? It's quicker and easier to just say it's the same reason as you.

And after you've basically nailed him on his 169/189/411 contradictions, I think you're also right in saying Johoohno is scummier than TNE now. Although I must admit, I like his going after SlySly. Shame it's not the right person doing it.

Anyway, I'm happy with my vote where it is, even if SlySly thinks it should have stayed on RC and you think it should be on TNE.

[Fat_Tony]

/picks up prod.

/points out that RC is voting for me now

[Fat_Tony]

The Battousai thing only SlySly and battousai should understand. I'm still unhappy about a game we were in with Battousai, and I had more than half a mind to quit this game when I saw Battousai replacing in. And lord knows that if I was a vig I would kill Battousai right now for the town's sake.

While I appreciate the sentiment, by your own words, do not convince yourself that you would do it for town. You apparently have a meta-problem with him and would be doing it for your own ends. That sucks for town, because now we have to take everything you say with that thought in the back of our mind("Is he really thinking Battousai is scum, or is this personal?")

Though I appreciate your candor, once again, that bias really sucks.

QFT, aka blatant me too post.