Mini 559 - Cult Mafia again - Game over
-
-
XReyoX
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
I can see how omg came up with the "might as well lynch the claimed-townie cos he will be cultified if we don't" strategy. The no claims at all strategy proposed by dahem could confuse the scums but it would be harder for the other towns to find the scums as well because claimed townie-scum interaction is a vital piece of evidence for spotting scum in most games.
I think the best way to approach this is for the vanilla to claim ONLY when he can free himself from the lynch _AND_ direct it to whom he strongly believes is scum. Otherwise, claiming would hurt the town more than the others. Use claiming as the very last resource.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
OMG: As mentioned by elias, I asked blaze what he thinks so that I would know his stance on the issue. I appologize for not phrasing the question so that its more open ended( i.e. what you think about omg's post). But other than agreeing with some people who says you're overdefensive or agreeing with you who says peoples are misunderstanding you, I didn't think of a third option where someone can stand.
Elias: I would assume that there is a doc, (see sample town power role by the mod). Of course there is no guarentee that there will be any specific power role at all. There could be ...oh 4 role blockers... but how likely is that? XD-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Ghost: I understand that it seems people are reading too much into trivial things. It makes me think why people bother defending this and that when they don't really matter. Are they overdefensive? and sometime make me think whether it's scums trying to pick on a town even when people start voting/fosing others for minor things. But I guess it's the way to start the game rolling. I don't tend to read too much at the beginning tho.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Blaze: your strat won't work because mafia could easily fake claim to be that cop of yours. If two/ more people claimed cop, who will you believe? Bare in mind that there could also be some stupid townies who would decide to join this fake-claiming thing. If you aren't a complete newbie, I would be fosing you for 1) suggesting no-lynch on D1 to maximize the chance for the cult leader to sucessfully recruit a town and 2) suggesting the cop to claim on D2 regardless on what they've found (giving away another piece of info to the scums).-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Scum awaiting for an opportunity to bandwagon, eh?omg_im_innocent_wtf wrote:Could someone please do something scummy so we could at least start getting some bandwagon analysis?
You might not know who to vote for because no one has committed any major scumtell. But you should at least pick on a few threads and say whether you agree or disagree with them so that we know where you stand. The posts you've made aren't exactly useful to be honest.militant wrote:I am in the same position as you, i dont know who to vote for-
-
XReyoX Goon
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
dahen: Ihe reason I haven't comment on your vote is because oman hasn't replied yet. I usually let people explain/ defend for themselves first to see where they're going. As for you, starting a wagon in my opinion is not scummy (unless the points made are ridiculous). Scums usually tend to be those who make excuses to join the wagon. I've read all the post but I'm just poor at digging scumtells out at the beginning of the game.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
oman:
I'm sorry. I still don't see how it would be beneficial for town to claim doc and doc to claim town. Yup, the existence of a cult means role-claiming would benefit them as well unless the leader is dead. However, i believe the confusion you would cause the town by fake claiming would outweigh the benefit from confusing the scums. In my opinion, your suggestion for doc claiming town and town claiming is an unwise tactic / scumplay.
Also, I'm wondering where this comes from:
When mod has stated that:Oman wrote:OMG: There is no godfather in this game for sure.
[quote="curiouskarmadogThere are exactly 3 different factions in this game: a Cult (one person to start), a 2 man Mafia team (possibly with power roles), and a T (with 2-4 poweroles).
[/quote]
This, to me, looks like you've either misread the mod's post or you're scum to be so sure.
Dahen: I think his vote on bladerunner is fair though. It doesn't look scummy to me, more like encouraging discussion since blade hasn't got a wagon yet and it's unlikely to build up to a lynch with his vote.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Oman: None of us (including scums) know whether there is a doc except the doc himself. So someone claiming a powerrole doesn't mean the scum would target him that night, no? I understand that claiming will not always work (in any reasonable setup). I just want to point out that fake claiming make the game easier. So i suggest people should either not claim at all or think not just twice but everything through before deciding to claim.
At least I think he realize I'm not scum XDdahen wrote: omg: How exactly do you feel that you put pressure on someone when you vote her at the same time as saying the vote isn't sound?-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Perhap thats the reason why people get pissed of at you when you're town. Also, by saying you've an inconsistence playstyle before making a fake claim doesn't make you less scummy in my view.Confusing a few scums together with a whole lot of townie isn't a wise choice I believe.omg_im_innocent_wtf wrote:anyone that has played with me before knows i think lynch all liars is complete crap and would make up whatever role i felt best suited me. for example, if i am a roleblocker i would probly claim townie, if i was townie i would claim doc, if i was scum i can just pick from the 2, if i was cultist then i probably claim townie again lol.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
By saying you're not a total noob, I would say suggesting a random lynch on D1 is a point against you.lalaland wrote:I have mafia experience, not a total n00b, but 98% of that is from real life games, in which day one lynch always seems to be "You never paid me the dollar you borrowed from me two weeks ago" as the basis for a lynch.
I have played a few games on Conquer Club {see my sig} and in a current one, Day 1 went to page 40 something before a lynch was decided upon.
Although we are nowhere near close to 40something pages, I am going to try to avoid another one of those occurences.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
No you didn't. But if you are to claim at some point, you're probly going to fake claim, aren't you? I'm just trying to point out that once people have found that you've fake claim, saying "I've told you that I'm going to fake claim early in the game" won't make you less scummy than a scum fakeclaiming. I'm suggesting you not to do it.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
The setup encourages people to think twice before they claim, not encourages fakeclaims to confuse the hell out of other townies.Norinel wrote:But how is that any different from the earlier general discussion on whether or not fakeclaiming is a good idea in this game? The setup kind of encourages it anyway, metagame or not.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles). And if later on in the game you've found a scum with your role blocking, it would be very difficult to convince other townie since you've lied at the beginning. If you've blocked a town power role previously, by not declaring you are one and whom you've blocked, they would think there is a mafia role-blocker as well.Elias_the_thief wrote:By claiming town as RB he prevents himself from being NKEd by scum first night.
In this case, you'll draw more suspicion from the real doc if there is one. You might even cause the real doc to claim if he really think you're scum. Also, if a doc die after you've fakeclaim, unless you're really good, the chance you could talk yourself out of this is dim.Elias_the_thief wrote:if he claims doc while town he draws the kill away from power roles.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Its better to have that risk with the chance of hitting vanilla than a guaranteed lost roleblocker.[/quote]Elias_the_thief wrote: This means the scum would have gone for someone else and that someone else could be a doc/ cop (more powerful power roles).
This is only when you are assuming we haven't got a doc.
This is the point, how could you distinguish a fakeclaiming town and a fakeclaiming scum? When playing mafia, people get paronoid. They try to question everything everyone says. Now that if you fakeclaim, then it doesn't only make people disbelieve you but also give excuses for the scums to jump onto your wagon.Elias_the_thief wrote: If they do that then they are retarded. You explain your reasons for falseclaiming, if the town disbelieves you thats not your mistake, its the towns.
Got to go, I'll continue when i get back.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Blaze: you didn't take into account that townies are on their own while scums can discuss together at night. If we assume that everyone's analytical skill is equal, then coudl figure out whether someone's fakeclaiming before the rest of us.Blazerunner wrote:There is something, IMO about this fakeclaiming discussion, that might be going a little unnoticed
It can be good for townies, if all townies understand it is fake, AND ALL SCUMS DON'T, and if we are all openly saying "fakeclaiming is ok", then the mafia wont buy it... Its a coinflip.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
OMG: (Sigh) Listen, I don't think I have misunderstood you at all. All along, I'm just trying to say that i think fakeclaiming is not a good idea. I've said in one of my posts in the beginning of the game that confusing scums is good but you'll have to consider the confusion it would cause the town and how it's going to affect the decisions the rest of us would make. In this game, it's not you alone against the scums, its all of us. By claiming a power role when you are not, you could be wasting a doc's protection; by claiming a townie when you're a power role, the doc could waste his protection on someone else. The person who has claimed to be a power role is usually asked to provide evidence of their role. When he fails to convince others that he is not lying, he could draw a cop's investigation (which obviously would be a waste). With more than 10 people in the game, someone would be able to figure out if you fakeclaim. All of us know that scums, when asked to claim, would claim townies/ town power roles, and the most obvious evidence to tell they are scums is when the identities of the dead and the night scenes contradict with what they said they've done or what they are. When the towns fakeclaim as well, how are we able to tell whether they are lying townies or lying scums? Townies don't NEED to lie, scums do (unless they are stupid). Townie fakeclaiming will allow another door for the scums to lie, blend in, and confuse the town, and possibly escape from a lynch.
As for the basis of your strategy, the scums have to believe that you're claiming true in the first place. This has already been blown since you more or less is telling everyone that you're going to fakeclaim. Now, try and put yourself in the scums shoes. If you see OMG claiming so and so later in the game, are you going to believe in what he has claimed? In addition, as norinel and I have said, scum know who's scum. They can discuss at night and this means they are much more likely to work out that you're fakeclaiming than individual townie would.
I'm still open to discussion on this strategy and I hope you can provide me with links which shows you've tricked the scums into falling into that fakeclaim trap of yours or any other games which show town fakeclaiming has worked without causing any side effects on the town. I've not played any games where a townie has fakeclaimed with good results ( actually most of them ended quite badly).
Of course you can still fakeclaim to be whatever you want. You can sabotage the town by doing bizzare things. I've provided the reasons in which I think it's not a strategy I'd like to use and how I'd response to such a situation.
Perhaps I should have used "wouldn't" instead of "doesn't" when I was saying claiming to fakeclaim before fakeclaiming doesn't make one less scummy. I'm sorry if my posts sounded like i'm attacking you but if you isolate them, you see that I haven't even put a fos on you. I was supprised that you were continously voting and unvoting me. And I was even more supprised that you've got to L-2 without me voting at all but because this is the first wagon, it's hard to tell whether people were trying to pressure vote you or scum were diving in in hope for a lynch (which is stupid).
Also, I hope that you were just frustated and weren't trying to insult me personally when saying I should understand your post if I have taken english past a HS level. English is literally my fifth language if you haven't realize already from the way I write. I wasn't skimming your posts either.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
The game seems to be slowly down.
First of all, I don't think Norinel's vote is scummy, it was a page one vote.
Not too sure about Friend of old though, the timing for the vote and unvote when the wagon wasn't going anywhere is a bit suspicious. I'll decide after his response on this.
To me lalaland has the most suspicious vote at the moment. She voted OMG with a not-so-clear reason then dissapear. I'm going to voting her if she doesn't speak up soon.
I guess we need to replace militant. Newbies dropping out is getting annoying in this forum.
Ghostwriter: If you are to vote, who will you vote and why? Apart from saying OMG's strategy wasn't antitown and people (lurkers as you've described) jumping onto his wagon suddenly, you haven't given us much of your views on other players.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Oh no... Am I misleading you? If you're not stupid enough to be mislead, I doubt the scums would fall into the trap honestly. And next time, back up your fakeclaim strategy with previous games please, this would be appreciated, that is if you still want to dig deeper into this discussion. Otherwise, I suggest you concentrate on expanding the other discussions rather and ignore my rant if you can't be bother to read them.Oman wrote: XReyoX - STOP TALKING ABOUT CLAIMING! It doesn't matter because a fake claim could be helpful, but a real claim is helpful for the WIFOM. WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT, BECAUSE THE MAFIA AND CULT WILL KNOW AND THEN ITS VOID! WE NEED TO MMMMIIIISSSLLLLLEEEEEAAAADDDDD THEM!
In short Claiming = STFU!
I don't think so. He was accussing him for getting OFF his wagon. He was on 3 at that time. Do you think he really needed to shift it?Oman wrote: And the Noriel thing is a scumtell, not only is it OMGUS, its also him trying to shift the wagon.
Also:
thenOman wrote:Unvote
Waste of space.Oman wrote:You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Ask anyone who plays with me regularly, I rarely vote no-one. Espeically early D1, I try to find a wagon (any wagon) that has even the slightest merit in it, then hit it.
I also dislike the fact that you start telling people that you think the best strategy is this:
Then you're now tell me to shut up and not to discuss it.Oman wrote:The best idea for townies is to claim Doctor and draw the NK. Best idea for the Doctor is to claim tonwie and draw the cult recruit.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Fos:GS
1) for lurking (4 posts so far)
2) not contributing to the discussion in his first 2 posts then suddenly got onto OMG's wagon after he was prodded.
3) The reason for keeping his vote is weak
4)Not commenting on any other players other than OMG.
Mod: prod lalaland and possibly replace militant please. Thanks
militant has 48 hours from 02/17 1:54pm, if he doesnt post by then I will find a replacement.
lalaland prodded.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
Fos : Friend of Old
Your voting pattern in scummy. Saying no one is using any logic in the game and therefore not adding anything to the discussion is a scummy way to hide. You are making yourself hard to be read. Do you realize that its already past noon and what you've been doing is jumping onto wagons without adding sound reasons?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello toshiro, what do you think about the game so far.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For the moment,Vote: GSsince lalaland seems to be a newbie going to drop out so there's not much point if she's going to be replaced soon, like militant.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
My random vote on blaze is doing nothing. It would be more useful on GS for now. Plus his votes and lurkiness do look a bit scummy, as I've said before. Though I would like FOD and lalaland to post more.Elias_the_thief wrote:Reyo and Friend of Old, why are you voting for GS (I know you didnt actually vote yet reyo)?
------------------------------------------
Toshiro: there are only 2 mafia, the other one is a cult leader. I don't see much of a link between elias and GS either.
Also, where is ghostwriter?
I agree that norinel is hard to read.
-----------------------------------------
OMG: Would you mind pointing out how elias is being manipulative? I'm not getting scum vibes from elias so he's still neutral in my list. I'll see if I can find something from his previous games as scum.
-----------------------------------------
Blaze: Could you place a vote, fos or give us an idea of who you think is scummy at the moment on your next post please.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
OK FOD, I'm not buying your reasons behind your behaviour.
Firstly, as toshiro has said, 9 pages and you couldn't find anything useful to comment on is ridiculous.
secondly, think about it. If everyone follow what you're doing, we'll all be sitting around, waiting for a wagon to show up. You're voting purely for the sake of bandwagoning.
Thirdly, you are what I considered as active-lurking, posting enough just so that no one call you out for lurking, but not contributing to the discussion.
In addition to that you are saying none of the discussion is useful and that is just not true. We might not have gotten a wealth of information from it but its obvious better than nothing. You currently struck me as a scum trying to dampen down the discussion or a very bad town who doesn't know how to play.
And what do you mean by genuine scumminess? If you're waiting for someone to yell out" I'm scum, vote meeeee!!!", then I guess you'll have to play till you're REALLY OLD to see that.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
My main focus was just to get them posting. I was deciding between lalaland, oman, GS and FOO at that time.Norinel wrote: I think my words sort of got twisted around... why aren't you voting FoO? GSGold's primarily a lurker who'll get unvoted once he gets replaced
Firstly, elias unvoted lalaland and went for GS so she was on 1. Putting my vote on her making it a 2 doesn't look like it would do much. She was prodded that day as well so I she was out of my list.
Secondly, I kind of made a post addressing oman before I post. Oman is quite active, so I didn't think I'd need to vote him to get a reply or something.
FOO just started to get more active and I made an fos against him on the same post I vote GS. I think that was all I need to get him posting.
Since I've fos GS before I placed my vote on him which didn't do anything and the fact that the wagon is building up, I believed my vote best go to him.
I usually fos people first and wait to see if I could get the answer I want before voting them. It let other people to know where I'm going at the same time as well which I think should be a bad thing. I find people who go "Wah... This is a scumtell! Vote: You straight away " quite scummy, so I don't do it usually.
FOO: Thanks for the effort. It is going to take me some time to digest your post though. But before I'm off, just wanna point out that GW's posts have constantly been sending me scummy vibes. I've tried re-re-rereading his posts numerous times but I couldn't nail down whats so scummy. After spending an hour or so just reading his 10 odd posts, I realized that it was his avatar (not joking). His posts don't alarm me when I'm not looking at it. It really creeped me out like hell, but its probably my brain messing up (as usual). gah....-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
I think I've brought something up about GS before and I'm still not sure why people think elias is scum. GW telling people they are crap voting but not making any effort to improve the situation is not useful. But I don't think its that scummy. It just sounded like "Are you all stupid? Why are you guys voting like this? (Sigh) I'm coming back when there are more stuffs happening."-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
OMG, next time when you're going to insult someone, click on the little cross on the top right-hand corner instead of the sumbit button, Please? People don't vote you for no reason, and one could be because they are scums. Also, you are not the one who can judge whether you are the most protown person in the game. When you think someone is voting you based on crap logic, ask him to clarify (nicely), suggest why he is doing this and how it would benefit from it if he is scum (nicely), quote his scummy bits, ask others to add in their opinions on the case (nicely). Seriously, read your own posts and imagine you are another player trying to read them. There might be 1 or 2 stupid, dumb towns but there is no reason why you should get mad over them. At least half a dozen of people in here are trying to find scums just as hard and enjoy the game as well. Don't ruin it for everyone. K?
Oman and pink puppy, provoking him is just as bad if not worse.-
-
XReyoX Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 857
- Joined: March 3, 2007
- Location: London
-
-