Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
This game is fast leaving me in the dust, so rather than try to figure it out and make a single grand post, I've gotta jump in with my opinions on people where they are. If someone wants me to cover something specific, ask away. I've made notes for everything up to my replacement, and have kept up since then. I'm hitting highlights that jumped out at me.
Near: His early vote hops do seem scummy. I move my vote a lot because its the only thing a townie's got, but his reasons in this game look really thin.
In the same post he admits that a too townie argument may be crap, says jerubbaal is too logical:
Too Logical to be town? Too Poised? Makes no sense.Near 5 wrote:my townie argument could be crap but that was the impression I got re-reading your posts. you are too logical you are too poised .
Two separate issues:Near wrote:IMO, the probability of your being a townie AND getting the dice result to vote for yourself (1/11) is very small that it makes me think that probability of your being scum AND rigging the dice result to vote for yourself in order to show us that you are "fair" is significantly higher.
-The probability of Sammich being town: Assuming a standard 9/3 split and no SK, then its a ~72% chance of him being town, much higher than him being scum.
-If he's not scum, then the likelihood that he concocted the dice result: If he were scum and botched the tag, is it likely that he did it on purpose to invent his real world result? If he didn't screw it up on purpose, is it likely that he'd then invent a way to vote himself?
There are too many moving pieces to make him scum for rigging the die roll, and its bad logic to say so.
And on the Too Townie train, again:
Stop using too townie. Its WRONG. Take it the other way- can someone be too scummy to be scum?Near 10 wrote:Ok, here's yet another speculation by me, but isn't he trying too hard to look townie here?
That is actually a fantastic way to setup mislynches, especially if the townie being buddied up to is already considered scummy.Near wrote:And if buddying up is considered scummy, scums would avoid it.
vote: Near
Sammich's vouching for MP is just bizarre. This caught my eye, too:
That's a weird sentiment and one that strikes me as scummy with the vig dieing N0.Sammich wrote:It's been a while since I had a night start, I'm having fun.
His either/or FoS on Incognito and Lowell also seemed scummy, like leaving the door open for whichever way people went.
Imat's rant about a restart reads like scum putting on townie airs. The rest of his posts seemed pretty good, however.
Like I said, I've got everything noted up to my replacement, including some things saved for later, pending info and connections. I'm gonna make a quick read and comment on what's gone on since I came in.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
The things I commented are, to me, the most promising leads. Like I said, I've got some minor things here and there that caught my eye, but didn't pan out when I went back for a second view in context. I'll hold them close to see for now.
MP is obviously useless. Everyone else ranges from slightly scummy to mostly townie.
As far as the "physical impossibility" of Sammich completing the rolls and coin flip- what makes it impossible?
-I have dice on hand at my desk
-I have coins in my pocket or in my desk drawer
-I have quick post enabled
Surely two people with the requisite equipment on hand to look at a player list and roll dice and then flip a coin must be scum! Although I'd have stuck with a d6 and rolled prime (me) /not prime (whoever i was rolling against) to see who to vote. Or maybe pips in the middle or odd/even or high/low. The only thing I'd question for an instant is the coin, but its not damning.
Plus, we don't see seconds, so there are really a full 1:59 he could have had to make his post.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Y: For the record, my attempt to vote Near wasnota well calculated gambit for reactions
Unvote
I did not see the disjointed list that Sammich claimed to have used; I thought he was just rolling against the player list. Its not impossible for him to recall what he was basing it on, but he has not alluded to anything that makes it seem likely.
I had read 203 as a frustrated "Shut up and bugger off already".
Sammich:Wasthe die roll made up?
@Near: The reason I voted you was not just using bad logic, it was because you pushed bad logicafteracknowledging it was bad with the second two townie argument, the loose feel of your early votes.
In 207, what you push as facts are not indisputable:
1. It was not impossible. I've already said I have the stuff on hand.Near wrote:The facts are:
1. It was physically impossible for Sammich to roll the dice like he described the process of in reality.
2. Therefore, Sammich lied. Repeatedly. He made up a story in order to convince us that he had in fact rolled the dice.
3. A townie (at least I would) just give up in the middle of it and admitted I was joking or I lied.
4. I think it's worth it to re-quote what Sammich has said:
5. EVEN AFTER XreyoX pointed out the time difference of one minute between his posts that made it physically impossible for him to do this, he still maintained he didn't lie. See post 200Sammich wrote:<explains process>
6. In my opinion, there is very small chance that Sammich is town. Add the fact that Sammich vouched for MP in order to imply that he is a vanilla townie.
2. He may not have lied. It was possible.
3. This is your opinion
4. ---
5. Again- it is physically possible
6. Opinion as fact?
The way you present your theories and opinion as fact is scummy.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I'm not getting too technical with the post attacking this sequence. You were saying its a fact something is impossible, but its not impossible.Near wrote:The facts are:
1. It was physically impossible for Sammich to roll the dice like he described the process of in reality.
Haven't you and several others asked this throughout the discussion? It looks like you want everyone to see how reasonable you can be in letting it go.Near wrote:Upon your satisfactory answer, I will let go of this incident. Sammich, please answer:
1. Did you roll the dice in real life?
2. If yes, is your post at #175 an accurate description of what happened?
3. How did you remember which pip on the dice represented who? Did you write this down?
Second XReyoX- what test? What was asked there or answered in such a fashion that it wasn't before?
Second second XReyox: SAMMICH- ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!
@Incognito: Sometimes townies lie, but not often in a pro-town way unless it is a well-thought out gambit. LAL has its uses, but like most blanket policies, can be misused. I support lynching liars that hurt the town.
On Preview: @Incognito- my thoughts on Near and Sammich exactly.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
QFT. The less confusion later, the better.Ripley wrote:My own feeling is that the whole issue of Sammich and the dice ought to be cleared up now, as far as possible to everyone's satisfaction, or else there's a real danger it'll just rear its head again in ten pages or twenty pages, and it'll be a chore then to revisit the issue whereas now it's fresh in everyone's mind.
That seems like a reach. I suppose its possible to make a win condition requiring every player in the game be voted for, no more than one per page counting. It would explain the vote for avi, but:I'm starting to wonder if MP has some private win condition relating to invalid votes (I think he's managed five so far, all for different people. Maybe he's going for the full set.)
I think Occam's razor says to take MP for what he's been before- a poor player- and not invent rationale to justify his play.
And if MP is going to make -1 votes as good as lynches, then it brings us back to a policy lynch.
Let's get Sammich wrapped up (hehe- sandwich...wrap ) and revisit MP.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
@Y: Earlier, you said you had a thought about Sammich's claim that you were saving for later. Since he hasn't answered Near or XReyoX about why he did it and how he can vouch for MP or Ripley's Night start questions, what do you think of it now? What did you think then?
@Imat: Does an attack have to be well formed for a person to be town?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
My defending Sammich was based on a significant amount of weight being put behind crap arguments about how it was impossible for him to have made the die roll in <2 minutes (disbelief about people having dice at the desk, and the list was shown by XReyoX, iirc, to be simply who had posted at the time he rolled).Lowell wrote:unvote, vote gorkat. I'm not really sure I understand the point of his defense of sammich. It seems like he saw someone in trouble and used it as an opportunity to make himself look good. Couple that with the fact that he doesn't do much (yes, yes, pot, kettle, black, whatever) is good enough.
Note that I'm now voting him for his uncooperation and unwillingness to answer questions about why he felt he could back MP up.
I actually need to re-read from the point I replaced in because I got pretty wound up in Sammich's dice roll and never kept up on my notes.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Well...propping him up with a vigorous defense (that I still stand by) only to vote him for reasons I think, iirc, that I was pointing to then as legitimate flaws doesn't make much sense.
If I was scum trying to look good by buddying up to a townie going down, I'dstayon the good side wouldn't I?
If you were saying that I was taking a middle road, fence-riding postition in order to go whichever way the wind blew, that would be understandable. But you're not; you're picking and choosing what you want to say is scummy.
Since this is what you're choosing to focus on: Should a townie not defend someone they think is getting a raw deal?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I believed Sammich based on my own having dice on hand (at home, anyways), and what I thought was the first die being the people who had posted, and the second off the mod list.
I think I misunderstood Reyo or whomever posted that was how they thought Sammich had ordered the dice. I think they were actually saying that's how he got them for his fabrication. (I'm not trying to put those words in anyone's mouth- correct me if I'm wrong.)-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I'm here, and in the same boat as Reyo and incognito- wanting Sammich to answer the questions he said he would.
Throw my hat in the ring with those saying "no way its a jester". Not in a closed mini, not with the flavor we've been presented with.
Forget distancing- Near has been way to hard on Sammich for me to think they are partners. Is there anything specific that is making you think they are?jerubbaal wrote:Although the suggestion does move me to think that there's definitely a possibility that both Near and Sammich could be scum-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Early on Near was pushing "too townie" arguments even after being told they were bad logic. His jester speculation and other role specukation is also a bit suspect; I can't decide if looking for bizarre roles to fit behavior is scummy or newbie.
What is making me vote Near right now is the bizarre flip from 'Sammich passing his test' (in which Sammich said he did not make up the die roll) to going after him for not posting a scum list and then becoming convinced he lied again. I admit I got wrapped in Sammich's 'uncooperativeness' and wanted his answers, too, but since he has seemingly flaked I can assume he wasn't keeping up with things.
unvote
vote: Near-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Lowell whilte voting Y and Near wrote:It seemed a little like Y was coaching Near a bit in his post. Again, this isn't exactly a smoking gun, but it's good enough.
Twice you've qualified your vote reasons as "good enough". Earlier you got tangled in Incognito's web of voting back and forth on Y/Near. Now, despite a lot, including my response to your vote, you're "keeping [your] vote where it is."Lowell while voting me wrote:unvote, vote gorkat. I'm not really sure I understand the point of his defense of sammich. It seems like he saw someone in trouble and used it as an opportunity to make himself look good. Couple that with the fact that he doesn't do much (yes, yes, pot, kettle, black, whatever) is good enough.
FoS: Lowell
I don't like "good enough" reasons when there's been as much animated back and forth as we've had. It sounds really non-committal.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I really need to stop trusting that people don't misrepresent checkable facts and just start checking them myself. I twice trusted people on this post order/dice assignment crap.
What? He based 1-5 of players who had posted (including himself). Ergo: the second die is people not on that list...people who had not posted, in other words.Near wrote:You misunderstand my point. The fact is, Sammich was the fifth player to post on this game. Since he didn't know the order of players who would post after him, his list should not be similar to the list of the players who posted in this game.
The order of his second die is not the same as those people who posted after him. He was never asked if they were listed in 1-6 order (which would have been a good question, in hindsight).-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
@Y: Forget Near's case on Sammich- what about Reyo's summary? He thoroughly brought together each point against him.
Both Near and Sammich look scummy, but not aligned with each other. Everyone's been involved one way or the other with Sammich, too. From a purely information perspective, either one will give us fat to chew.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I've seen townies flake or even self-hammer under pressure. Flaking in and of itself is a null-tell (but huge pain in the rear), for me.Lowell wrote:unvote, vote Niv. I'm willing to build on this bandwagon, and I too think his quitting under pressure is major scum-tell. Usually townies don't quit under pressure, if for no other reason so they can post a posthumus "Bah, I told you!" post.
The reasons to vote him stand independent of his flaking.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I've lost big posts like Niv has. What Niv hasn't done is to at least summarize the findings. Instead of a paragraph per person or w/e, a line or three about what was significant and what you think is worth looking at or basing judgements on- a commitment and a position, in other words.
@Reyo: Were you going to be defending Near in you 'case breakdown'? If you think he's town, then preventing him from going down is good, right?
And never mind. Hi ooba.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
He claimed a role that is just common enough to be believed and uncommon enough to likely not be countered. I wasn't gonna say it earlier, but like Y said, any real cop or smith knows if he's lying, and getting them outed would be just fine for the scum.Mizzy wrote:I suppose my question is this: Are you comfortable with lynching an un-countered power-role claimer?
Also, like I did say earlier, with the vig dead, its a great claim.
As Y pointed out, he's done enough to be lynched, even without a sketchy claim that he's already done a 180 on as far as Reyo having a gun or not.Y wrote:He misrepresents a lot of facts, distorts people's words, puts a lot of pressure in unneeded places, wastes time, confuses the town, uses bad logic, vote hopping and so on...-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Y's change of stance on Sammich/Niv bothers me. He says he had thought Sammich was a cop, but if he did, he was basically asking him to claim it back here:
The way he went about it doesn't jive with how he claims he was handling it (bold mine):Y wrote:@ Sammich: I still want to know how do you know Mafiaplayer's real role.
I have a theory about that claim, but I want you to answer first.
What could Sammich have said to make Y think he was a cop without outing himself as one? Any kind of hint that he had a pre-game night action would make him a target.Y wrote:Night start, vouching for a townie, claiming as some one who's not really vanilla. Most things that go against him, would fit perfectly if he was a cop. Since I noticed he isn't a good player, I figured out that he might have slipped when he vouched for MP (After investigating him N0). I also pointed out several times that I have a theory about him,but I didn't want to help him if he's not the real cop, and I didn't want scum to know he might be the cop(Or even worse, get the real cop to counter-claim).
unvote
vote: Y-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
@Y: I feel like I've been pretty straightforward with my thoughts. Near and Niv/Sammich were reasonable lynches yesterday, and you and Lowell had earned some attention, too.
Right now, with hindsight being what it is, I think Near is scum.
Or they're being smart and breadcrumbing their investigations so they can come out when Near-scum goes down with several confirmed townies at once.Y wrote:(And no one claimed a cop-ish like role).-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Yes- two posts out of forty make me a follower.Lowell wrote:3) FOS gorckat. He's a follower. Post 553 mimic's Y's opinion, then 651 jumps on a bandwagon.
553 was me weighing in on Near's claim.
651 was me agreeing that Near is scum, for reasons covered in Day 1, for the most part. And the first, and so far, only vote on the "bandwagon".-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I'm a cat, not a ratFar wrote:Gokrat I found him suspicious since his vote hopping toward the end of Day 1. I briefly considered checking him out instead of Y at night. The fact that he doesn't believe I am a gunsmith and his insistence on trying to lynch me today makes me suspect him. Scummy.
iirc, I voted Y towards the end of Day One because he said he thought Sammich/Niv could have been a Doc, but his early questioning of him looked like it was designed toouta cop. Then I tried to hammer Niv at deadline (unnecessarily and a minute late) to avoid a No-Lynch.
Please illuminate how that was scummy.
If I don't believe your claim, should I shut up about it?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I understand where you'd get the idea, the way he vouched for MP, but even in the post you pointed out to clarify when you started to think he was the cop you said:Y wrote:@ gorckat: I thought him to be a cop, not a doc. What do you you think about it now that we know his alignment?
It still seems like fishing.Y 104 wrote:@ Sammich: My question was "How do you know Mafiaplayer's role?". I didn't see an answer.
@Ripley: I've also not liked his "<insert reason> is good enough" attitude on a couple of his votes.
I don't like the way Near clamped down on Sammich so long for "dicey" (pun intended) reasons- if he truly was a gunsmith, why wouldn't he have waited to look at him last night rather than push on the way he did, even as most of the town was pointing out his bad logic and unsupported assertions?
Toss in the test/there was no test, the results double-take on Reyo and the guilty/there was no guilty and his claim looks flat out fabricated to me.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
That's pretty hair-splitty (punRipley wrote:It's clearly stated that the vigilante was carrying a gun and therefore there is known to be a case in which a gunsmith would receive a misleading result. This is what I meant by "inaccurate".notintended )- a gunsmith wouldaccuratelyidentify a vig as having a gun.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Because my point was that you were still presenting to a player, that 1) you thought was a cop and 2) was under pressure, a question that looks like an invitation to out them.
The rest of the post gavemeno feeling that you were backing of off it significantly (as in- don't answer the question) so I didn't quote it.
On further review, the latter half looks loaded togethim to out himself- 'you're so clueless I don't care how you know MP's role'.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
No- I'm curious, like Lowell, I assume, why you're voting the person cleared by a claimed gunsmith.
If you don't believe the claim, then Near is the logical target of your vote.
Unless, you know...you're just gonna vote everyone he "clears".Mizzy wrote:At the very least, he is not harming us,
When I skimmed your posts for thoughts on Near you've been ambivalent and guarded saying things like (paraphrasing off the top of my head here) 'believe it for now with no counter' and 'we're focusing on it too much'.
Nothing clear. If you believe him, why vote his innocents? If you don't, why let him do harm?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Gotcha- I parsed/read Y wrong.Ripley wrote:
It was Niv, not Near, who said that. I think that's what Y meant to say.gorckat wrote:
Can you point to the post he said that? It sounds familiar, but I couldn't find it with CTRL-F or skimming his posts the end of Day One.Y wrote:Since Near said he'll self-vote, and I knew other people will be here in time (He was overkilled without the self-vote), I decided to take the chance.
Y wrote:I never played a game modded by destructor before, so I had no idea how strict he is.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
@Mizzy- sometimes indirection gets people to say more than they intend. I'll chew on your post later and respond (sometime this evening- leaving work now).
@Y- I thought what Ripley said was that you were referring to Niv saying they'd self vote, but looking back you clearly said Near. I didn't bother to read the part I quoted when I responded to Ripley, else I'd have said this then:
Did you mean Niv, or did Near say he'd self-vote somewhere?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
1) For what? Do you think he's scum?Mizzy wrote:Reasons for voting Y:
1) Pressure.
2) Possibility that Near is not sane.
2) Do you think ooba is scum?
If 1, then 2I believe that it is probable that:
1) That Near is at least pro-town.
2) That Near is at best a pro-town power role.
3) That there is no reason to lynch Near or talk much about his claims at this time.
4) That Y has posted some "interesting" things and I want to see if there is more information behind it.
5) That Y has a chance of being a second Godfather based on the idea (which is a plausible one) that someone posed about "The king is dead, long live the king!"
6) That there is currently no better place for my vote, in my opinion.
There, happy now?mustbe true. Near couldn't be pro-town andnota power role at this point, given his claim.
3 I disagree with, as I've been pushing. 4, if Y is scum, come out and say it.6, point out the scummy things he's done and make a case.
Right now, this looks just like one of Lowell's "good enough" votes.
If you don't want to lynch him, then there are better places for your vote.Mizzy wrote:
Well, thanks for that opinion, but I never said I wanted to lynch him, now did I?Lowell wrote:Mizzy, I think lynching Y is an awful idea.
It is on record. Right there where you said it. No voting someone you don't want dead required.Mizzy wrote:I don't intend to leave the vote on you, but I want it on the record that your actions have bothered me to the extreme and I would want you dead if it weren't for Near.
I'd love elaboration.Lowell wrote:unvote, vote gorkat. No smoking gun here, but the nature of his posting seems to be strange.
I've very much disliked Lowells casual votes all over the place. If he gets lynched in Near's place, I won't cry or anything.Ripley wrote:gorckat: I got the impression the last few days he was picking pernickety little arguments with anybody who was around, and I did wonder if he might be doing this to deflect attention away from the Lowell bandwagon, which had climbed up to three votes in a pretty low-key sort of a way.
This implies I haven't given my thoughts or taken a stand, which I believe is very much not the case.Lowell wrote:The reason you sum up for gorckat is pretty much mine. He just seems to be in the thick of things... but not really.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
Mizzy- that kind of "plan" is scummy because you could never get the reaction you were 'looking for' and no one could ever say otherwise. If you know you're going to vote for someone else, then this whole non-pursuit of Y is just noise to the signal.Mizzy wrote:
I'm watching your reactions, there's nothing I want to respond to specifically. Getting pissy with me isn't helping since you're not in any danger and I already said I'd move the vote. I'm just waiting for other responses from other players, though I think I know who I'll move it to.Y wrote:Mizzy, I've been one of the most active player this game, and the main contributor to the Near case. You're getting more content from me all the time. If you want something specific to come up, ask for it, there's no point waiting until I accidentally talk about it. If there's nothing special you're looking for, try to use these fake accusations on some else. Thank you.
Lowell- Like Incognito said, you hardly mentioned Imat after voting him Day 1, and your reasons for that vote are a little sketchy, especially because you said you agreed with him on his early game behavior.
Imat- Like Ripley, not posting quotes, or at least links looks like scum justification for being lazy. Got a completed game where you did this as town?-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!
I'm having a hard time figuring how two people aren't getting what I'm saying-
If you doubt Near's claim and want to test it...lynching someone he cleared doesn't do it. If he's scum, he can sit there and 'clear' people all game, tossing a partner out as needed to cement his place.
1) The vig is dead
2) Near claimed Gunsmith
3) Nearscum knows who does and does not have a gun
Doubts about Near shouldn't be directed at anyone other than Near.-
-
gorckat Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2830
- Joined: January 17, 2007
- Location: Bawlmer, Hon!