Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Battousai]

Only if you're Battousi

HI!

Sorry, had to stop reading and post this, by the way its Battousai. *goes back to reading the day*

[Battousai]

@ Battousai: When you've read through the day, I'd like a your thoughts on your predecessors posts.

Well, I don't know what he was thinking, but after reading through all the day posts, I have a few gut feelings towards some of the people here

IGMEOY: Earwig, Blackberry, TNE, Nyktorion, and Johoohno

I have no real reasons behind some of them, its just after reading their posts I just get a feeling. Not enough to warrant a FOS or a vote.

Blackberry's theories made him suspect in the beginning, but also I think some of the people who tried to put that into the limelight and distract people are even more scummy. Those people are: TNE, SlySly, and Ryan. Since Ryan was town, he is act probably just trying to figure out the theory.

Johoohno, the reason I find you the most scummy is that you intentionally try to muddy up the water by implimenting the sk role into people's heads. I see no reason to bring it up on day 1 when there has not been any night actions.

[Battousai]

UNFOS: blackberry

I never FOS'd him, but Ryan did.

[Battousai]

'tis my favorite. I didn't get to post whether I liked or hated my role.

This day has gone on for quite some time, I don't know if it's the norm here, so I will place my vote on the person I see as most scummy

VOTE:Johoohno

[Battousai]

@Johoohno:

I have no real reasons behind some of them, its just after reading their posts I just get a feeling. Not enough to warrant a FOS or a vote.

I thought I answered the question in my original post.
Also, RotN only posted two people he felt as most likely town. The scum should know who everyone else already is and how pro-town certain players seem, so one person's view on two people, IMO, does not warrant a FOS in this type of game (where FOS are kept and stored to break ties).

[Battousai]

Since we know two good canidates for lynching tonight, Rosso and Johoohno, why don't we try and pick up some activity by having them two defend themselves a bit after the 7 people who voted for them list their main reasons for their vote? Then we can go from there.

[Battousai]

The same reason you or Johoohno is not dead. There seems to be quite a few people unwilling to switch their vote to get the lynch.

[Battousai]

You say that we're driving toward either a Johoohno or RC lynch, but RC isn't on your list of suspects.

1

This doesn't bother you, that we're probably about to lynch someone you apparently don't find suspicious?

2

Why didn't you bring this up when you asked people to justify their votes for one or the other?

3

More to the point, why didn't you answer your own question?

4

You also have no FOS's on anyone, which I find a little odd, given your suspect list is pretty long. Still, there's definitely scummier players in this game

1) It does bother me some, because I can't tell when Rosso is playing normally or scummy. In a previous game, he acted similarly to this and was a plain townie, but the way he plays is scummy to me. So I have no read on him really, he could be either or. The main reason, though, is that he has only 4 votes and a quick bandwagon on him does not seem feesible before I can get on and sway votes away. And honestly, I didn't want to appear scummy defending him when I wasn't clear that he wasn't scum.

2) By asking them to justify their votes, Rosso and Johoohno have a chance to defend themselves and, Rosso being experienced knows how to defend himself.

3) I didn't know if it was a good idea or not. I was waiting for someone to start it then I would join in. I didn't think Johoohno would defend himself if only I asked him to.

4) That's because a few of those people I just have a gut feeling somethings a miss with them. I didn't want to give them a FOS because in this game they are counted when there is a tie and a gut feeling isn't strong enough to warrant that. Hence the IGMEOY.

[Battousai]

The Battousai thing only SlySly and battousai should understand. I'm still unhappy about a game we were in with Battousai, and I had more than half a mind to quit this game when I saw Battousai replacing in.

And lord knows that if I was a vig I would kill Battousai right now for the town's sake

.

WtF, kill an unknown, take the chance of killing a pro-town power role, vanilla townie, or scum. It's like an additional lynch, but with only past game as evidence and with out me defending myself. I do find this stupid, and suspicious. Since I see no way you will be lynched today, I will feel comfortable giving you a

FOS: Tamuz

[Battousai]

Can we please save this for day 2? Deadline is really close, and I would personally like for the town to make a decision before then. Ecto, Tamuz is not going to be lynched day 1, not enough time or evidence to convince for a majority vote. So, save it for another day, ok.

I would also like the answer to the jester role. If Rosso is the jester and we lynch him, is it auto-win for him/ auto-loose for us?

Johoohno, you still haven't commented on Tamuz's post on the last page. Could you please clarify that.

To Tamuz- I feel that if you leave because of my playstyle from a previous game, it is stupid ( I know its not the main reason, but it isn't helping). So far in this game, I haven't done anything "detrimental" to the town. Therefore, keep an open mind.

[Battousai]

I think a forced lynched is going to be necessary for the day, as it seems that no one is willing to switch their vote.

[Battousai]

I'm here, just been rereading the game to confirm my vote on johoohno.

Also:

FOS: Johoohno

, just in case there is a tie at deadline.

[Battousai]

Mizzy, please reconsider, Moz's posts are nothing but immature babble of no substance. He will probably be lynched soon anyways and the town, or scum, needs you.

Moz- I'm also waiting on your POV of the day so far, in more than 2 sentences.

[Battousai]

Maybe the NK was random? I mean, the scum might not have felt threatened by anyone day 1 or maybe slysly threatened them day 1.

[Battousai]

His reason was partly because of me and mainly of being "attacked" by Ecto. You probably missed the posts he made concerning it.

[Battousai]

That's why I don't like pairs, now that we know blackberry was town, rosso appears more townish.

[Battousai]

Thanks for the imput rosso, your such a valuable player with all your insight you provide us.

[Battousai]

I'm seriously surprised that no one looked at my wall-o-text I feel unloved.

Here's a cookie and some apple juice. Now, I did read your "wall-o-text", and I do find it to help bolster my support of a johoohno lynch. I still think Johoohno is scum and should have been lynched day 1 if it wasn't for the modkill. So I vote: johoohno now based on my previous opinions from day 1, and lack of responding to Mizzy's post (blame it on holidays but if he doesn't post soon I will add it as a blantantly not responding to the main accusations thrown at him by Mizzy)

VOTE: Johoohno

[Battousai]

I doubt it, since he was close to a lynch earlier and yet he still is posting in the same way.

[Battousai]

^ mod might have missed, or decided a hi I'm here type of post isn't warrant right now.

@ Mizzy and Battousai: Do you have any other suspects but me? (Just fretting over me will leave the scum rubbing their hands with joy, not having to do anything to win this day)

I do, but you are the most scummy. I am not, though, shutting everyone else out and only looking at you. I've only been posting about you lately.

Johoohoo wrote:
I had the feeling that we weren't going to get a lynch since enough of us couldn't agree on whom to lynch.


We always get a lynch when the deadline hits, see rule #10.

Hypocritical much Johoohno?

[Battousai]

Ecto:

Without a 2nd kill last night to back me up against Johoohno as scum aware of an SK, the case against him is weakened (though Jester made a good point about SlySly joining the vote against Johoohno. That would probably have been a 3rd vote on Johoohno right now)

It's basically WIFOM, if there was a sk they could have choosen not use their action to save Johoohno for a later lynch (we lynch second candidate today and then tonight there's two actions making suspicion go back on Johoohno).

[Battousai]

serious about tne. hes scum.

This was your last post, 6 days ago. That is why you are/were being replaced.

[Battousai]

Whoever killed earwig killed slysly, both were shot, and rosso was killed by another entity with a bomb or nuke. So I just went through the wiki and found all the roles that could have killed rosso besides the mafia.

Army Vet- kills first person to target them
Sk- would have made no choice night 1
Vig- we could have a one shot vig here or a vig with multiple kills
Terrorist- I'm leaning towards terrorist who BOMBs, but the wiki says they bomb during the day.

[Battousai]

The thing is, I think the fact he was nuked is a significant factor here. Why not hanged, stabbed, push down a flight of stairs, etc... instead? Would a vig nuke someone moreso than a sk?

[Battousai]

Well, I can't really comment on ryan's playing and thinking since I'm not him (sounds kinda wierd to me since my real name is ryan), but I seriously saw johoohno as scummy, he and rosso were on the top of my list and I was going for them. I've also been rereading the day trying to figure out what is what.

[Battousai]

I have just reread the day, and I can't find anything particully scummy about anyone besides TNE. I'm pretty lost on who to vote for at this point.

[Battousai]

If there are three mafia, maybe we can make up our list of the three would be, and gather information and discussion from that?

Mine- percent sure:
TNE- 60%
Jester- 30%
Mizzy (Tamuz)- 30%

[Battousai]

By the way, Jester, I would be careful with voting already... if there are three scum, we might be in LyLo already

You know... that's interesting, and likely true. I hadn't even thought of that possibility. And a few days have now passed, quite long enough for the scum to have hammered a Batt-townie and have already won the game, since I'm not scum.

I think I'll keep my vote where it is, for the time being.

There are also a few holes in this theory, though.

1) You could be scum, trying to get a townie to vote with you and then bandwagon with the other scum

2) There could be 2 scum, with another killing role (protown or anti-town)

3) The scum are waiting until your case get's a little stronger (probably nearer deadline) to vote to seem less eager.

4) One of the scum could be less active, thus making his partner(s) hold out for later.

[Battousai]

I see where Mizzy is getting at. No, I wasn't saying that my last post makes me town, but it does make it kind of a null-tell of Jester's assumption. Of course I would like Jester to take his vote off, but it is his choice to make and he sure as hell thinks I'm scum (or he knows I'm not if he's scum).

Could you guys respond to post 640? Do you guys think a list like that is a good idea for town, or should I abandon it because it may help the scum more than the town?

[Battousai]

MOD- Did we meet the deadline review?

WHOOPS. Sunday's vote count has been updated (and a Monday update added).

[Battousai]

That kinda of depends on whether or not they hurt the town more if said than not said. You also have to take into account the next day if you make it that far, would the speculation you have helped the town that day.

To post 662: If we have a vig, I would urge them not to kill tonight, based on if they kill a townie, I think we will lose. Also, they shouldn't claim and they should keep playing as a scumhunter. The only time they should claim is after someone else falsely claims vig as well.

[Battousai]

@ Battousai: When you've read through the day, I'd like a your thoughts on your predecessors posts.

Well, I don't know what he was thinking, but after reading through all the day posts, I have a few gut feelings towards some of the people here

IGMEOY: Earwig, Blackberry, TNE, Nyktorion, and Johoohno

I have no real reasons behind some of them, its just after reading their posts I just get a feeling. Not enough to warrant a FOS or a vote.

Blackberry's theories made him suspect in the beginning, but also I think some of the people who tried to put that into the limelight and distract people are even more scummy. Those people are: TNE, SlySly, and Ryan. Since Ryan was town, he is act probably just trying to figure out the theory.

Johoohno, the reason I find you the most scummy is that you intentionally try to muddy up the water by implimenting the sk role into people's heads. I see no reason to bring it up on day 1 when there has not been any night actions.

This is my post 335, Jester. I wrote this as my summary of the first day when I replaced in. In this I gave my minor suspicions for 5 people that were mainly gut. At the time there were 11 people, not including myself.

[Battousai]

What's with this we stuff? Multiple players under same name?

[Battousai]

What I gather from Jester's 694 of Nyktorion is "You disagree with me, you are obviously scummy."

And then 695- IMO, a sk does hurt the scum more than town, but the probablity of hurting town INSTEAD of scum is greater at the beginning, but decreases as days go on. The reason I say it hurts the scum more than town is because there are only (1-3, probably 2) scum and if one of the gets killed then its down to only one scum to lynch that next day and that person has to play very well in most circumstances.


Also, Mizzy, good luck

[Battousai]

99% of the time, SKs are required to kill every single night. If they weren't, they wouldn't kill at all until the late game to hide their presence in the game. When SKs miss their deadline, mods are generally required to pick someone for them to kill at random for this reason. And I invite you to point me to a single game on this entire site where a SK could only kill on even-numbered nights.

This is my first mini game and mountainous game on this site, so I don't know how they work here. But where did you draw these conclusions, from your own experience or what?

[Battousai]

P.S: I still would like to know from all of you whether you would like a possible one-shot vig who killed in N2 to claim. I still support this idea.

I'm torn on the idea of a one-shot vig claiming. On one hand, if he is one-shot, then he's no longer a power role and just a normal townie-type, so claiming would be giving us a guaranteed innocent. However, since he'd be unlynchable, he'd basically be signing his own death warrant because I can't imagine the mafia would let him live. I would also love to smack him for not listening to what I said about Rosso.

I think it is up to the vig on whether or not he/she feels like claiming, since it helps narrow the field if they claim, but then they would be killed tonight. I would prefer if they did come out for the benefit of the town, instead of trying to stay alive.

[Battousai]

Why do you see this as a potential Ecto-Tamuz scumpair?

[Battousai]

Welcome to the game, you have a lot of reading to do so thanks for taking the replacement.


Now Jester, I thought you were so sure that I was scum, I mean I wasn't lynched like I would have been if I were town (according to you). So, just because no one seems to support your decision you take your vote off me, is that it?

[Battousai]

IMHO, if I thought someone was scum enough to vote for them (not pressure vote but try and lynch vote) then it wouldn't matter to me if there was no other votes at the time.

[Battousai]

Ok, I'm back. Had some computer problems, but all is well.

I get what OGML was saying about Mizzy, she picked up on a few town tells and said so, and what I think OGML is making of it is that she was able to pick up on them because she already knew they were pro town.

After reading the mafia tell list again, Mizzy seemed to fall under the last category. She complains about how bad we screwed up. The wiki says that is often a scum tell.

Jester:" I consider what OMGML and Nyktorion did to be incredibly scummy, but it seems fairly unlikely that both of them are scum. I also consider it pretty unlikely that they're on the same team."

I agree with this, because I think it is unlikely that BOTH scum would vote at deadline for a lynch, because that would out them both. Then again they could think we would think that resulting in WIFOM, so they could have done that and then try to pin someone who was inactive as possible scum.

OMGML- "Jester: Dude, if you're seriously calling what Nyk and I did to secure a lynch yesterday scummy and not feeling the weight of hypocrisy around your neck you need to take a step back. You did nothing to help make sure a lynch happened, you didn't even check into the thread between April 30th and the deadline. I understand that your style is to make long posts every few days but these were extraordinary circumstances and if you didn't want crazy shit to go down because of the deadline lynching rules in this game you should have come back and helped us come to a group consensus."

True, but did you ask him why he was inactive?

OMGML- "I don't consider what Nyktorion did scummy in the least. He made a judgement call and brought the lynch to something that at least two people agreed upon. Mizzy and Jester, you call it scummy that we lynched SA, but hindsight is 20/20 (Jester) and apparently for some of us foresight is too. While you're so happily pointing out that between her vote and FoS Mizzy was changing the lynch from SA to Bat and that Nyk took the noose off of his neck, you're failing to take into account that she was trying to make a one woman decision at the last minute where I had been trying to make everyone come back and help me lynch Something Awesome or at least tell me why somebody else made a better lynch. I certainly wasn't going to go along with Mizzy's WIFOM defense of SA coupled with her even more WIFOM vote for Bat. This is as much the fault of the people who weren't here at the deadline as it is the people who were. We all knew the deadline lynching rules. You're getting righteous about what happened now but you didn't do anything about it when it was happening."

I find it scummy what Nykt did, but I guess less so since he saved a townie to lynch a townie. Maybe he had a hunch Something Awesome was the vig, since a few people said they weren't so that narrowed the field, so he hammered SA. Another reason for saving me is to set up a possible link between him and myself for lylo today, thinking I would be lynched easier than himself since Mizzy and Jester already suspect me (if one of them is his partner then that's still 3 votes and game over).

I also see what Nykt did could be him thinking there's a stronger case against SA than myself, thus SA is more likely scum.

I would like to note my change in behavior of lurking Nykt pointed out was because of computer problems. I was only able to get for a bit during that time and I posted in a different game before it went back down. I was inactive in all three of my current games.

Since there are two scum it is between Nykt, OMGML, Jester, and Mizzy. I would say the scum pair would possible be OMGML and Jester or Nykt and Mizzy.

[Battousai]

Since we know there are two scum, would everyone be willing to give their top scum pair?

[Battousai]

Since you guys have already said your scumpairs, I'll list the one I'm leaning on right now. That would be OMGML/Jester. Jester doesn't seem too critical of OMGML's actions yesterday compared to Nykt's. Add in Jester's actions yesterday of voting someone early in the game without confirmation of it being lylo. As Nykt said, the town did not know for sure it was not LyLo, but Jester seemed to know that it wasn't by voting.

Then we have OMGML. Yesterday OMGML voted for a townie that had acted scummy in the past and looked scummy to everyone but Jester (as said in post 767

To me, he came off as noob and I said as much, though I don't recall the post I said this (feel free to check me)

Haven't checked it out yet)- possible distancing from the lynch? OMGML's vote was obviously on an easy target. That plus Ecto's casting out suspicions on everyone early in the game put him into the scum pair.

[Battousai]

I FOS'd myself?

UNFOS

No, I screwed up. -Tar

[Battousai]

Come on, where is everybody? It's been awhile....

[Battousai]

I guess that's a complement, sort of...

Nyktorion wrote:
If you just wanted the town to focus on scumhunting instead of setup discussions, why did you not just use FOSes instead of votes during the day (the "playing it safe" point I tried to make at that tine, which was also the root of the escalation of the setup discussion), instead of escalating the discussion as well?

Ummmm... I did. I used both. I used all three.

What do you mean you used all three and both? Both implies there being only two (FOS, and voting), what do you mean by the third one?

In 626 I'll take the quote-

Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Rosso was vigged. The guy was acting like an ass, and certainly deserved his fate. And heaven knows he certainly drew any vigs we have in the game on himself. I don't think I've ever seen such anti-town behavior. It'd be hard to find a person in this game that didn't want Rosso dead, so finding out who killed him is going to be tough unless someone now wants to claim vig. I'm not a vig.

To me this does sound like you did want someone to claim vig, you even claimed that you weren't. Now you deny you wanted a vig claim?

Nyktorion wrote:
...you also have to count your 626 where you pushed for a vig-claim.

You might want to actually read 626. I've posted a link to it, just to make it easy.

You're right about 704, though

.

Battousai wrote:
Add in Jester's actions yesterday of voting someone early in the game without confirmation of it being lylo.

Out of curiosity, where was I supposed to get such confirmation? The fact that Tar confirmed it today is the first time I've ever seen a mod tell the players they were at lylo. That said, I think I made it quite clear over many D3 posts that I did not believe we were at lylo then. Had Tar not confirmed, I would have made it very clear that I was sure we were at lylo today.

The point I was trying to make was that you were willing to place a vote so early that day without knowing whether or not it was LyLo.

[Battousai]

How could it be a mistake, he left the vote on for almost the entire day?

[Battousai]

I'm not 100% sure of who is scum and who is not of the 4 remaining players. Thus, I'm not willing to vote. Since I'm leaning on Jester right now to be scum, I'm awaiting his reply and hope that will make me more comfortable voting him or to vote someone else.

[Battousai]

Well Jester, I'm kind of waiting on you to post something for me to comment on since you are my number 1 suspect right now, followed by OMGML. I'm also waiting on you to respond to Nyk's 800

[Battousai]

What would you like me to post? Right now I'm waiting on the most scummy person to me right now(Jester) to answer the questions of the person I find to be the most pro town (Nykt). I can't really see Nykt as being scum, because if he would be scum, I can't see anything coming from saving a pro town player from a lynch. Look at how bad he's looking right now, that's not WIFOM of scum play, that's just stupid scum play.

[Battousai]

Yes he did help kill a townie in order to save a townie, but he went with who he thought would be the best candidate and he thought it wasn't me.

[Battousai]

Mizzy, what is your reasons for voting me? Don't give me pages to look up, just the cold facts of why you think I should be lynched.

[Battousai]

Mizzy, what is your reasons for voting me? Don't give me pages to look up, just the cold facts of why you think I should be lynched.

The biggest most blaring reason for wanting you lynched is the common denominator theory. It's very, very true. But other than that, you aren't fighting hard enough against your lynch, you've been wishywasy, lurker-ish, and the apparent motives behind some of your actions have been muddy at best and, in my opinion, downright scummy at worst.

The reason I'm not fighting against my lynch hard enough is because there was nothing to defend against that I actually knew of that would warrant a lynch (besides the LCD theory).


Jester- The main point of 800 you are ignoring that I find scummy is your

denial

of wanting the vig to claim or not or to have everyone claim NOT to be the vig. I want(ed) to see how you would post to this.

[Battousai]

Ok, less than 84 hours to deadline. I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: Jester

for right now. I'm sure he won't be lynched before he has a chance to defend himself (would take the rest of the town to vote against him, or 1 townie and his partner to help clear the partner's position).

[Battousai]

FOS: Jester

, in case it becomes 2 votes against 2, I need to place my FOS.

[Battousai]

Well Jester, you have been lynched. Tomorrow, the last day *crosses fingers*

[Battousai]

On N2, me and ecto were deciding on who to kill, I planned on killing Rosso, but he wanted earwig for he thought earwig had the potential to out him. Fortunately we went with Earwig and the JoAT killed Rosso for us, otherwise the town probably would have had another day to win.

Overall good game, took a while do to all the replacements/inactivity that hampered the town, but enjoyable.