Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Mathdino]

show me how his play this game has been unlike his scumgame in stack the deck

[Mathdino]

i mean do you really want me to go there

[Mathdino]

my hope is that you'll die to scum at night so we won't have to deal with this tomorrow

[Mathdino]

no i mean i'm hoping your weak cop runs into mafia

[Mathdino]

like, fuck, we're talking

- Weak Cop
- Follower
- 1-shot Rolecop
- Motion Detector
- Hider

what the fuck kind of setup is this

[Mathdino]

I'm thinking Not_Mafia has the ability to check people for being a traitor.

[Mathdino]

she claimed multiple times that she hadn't used the rolecop yet

[Mathdino]

it looks like she used her doc that night

[Mathdino]

mastina kill points to Not_Mafia

Kthx kill points to Beefster/Marangal i think

[Mathdino]

Still not me

how come you're not voting

[Mathdino]

Do tell

[Mathdino]

if you're scum then you're confirmed strongman and would just perform the kill

the only real benefit is confirming marangal's messenger

[Mathdino]

yes that's the point

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Beefster

[Mathdino]

VOTE: Marangal

[Mathdino]

Investigatives: Hider, Weak Cop, Follower
Protectives: Bodyguard, Jailkeeper
Combos: JOAT, Backup JOAT
Misc: Messenger, Double Dayer

DoubleDayer/Gladiator cancel each other out, directly.

Messenger adds nothing to the setup.

So we're dealing with either
Hider/WeakCop/Follower/MotionDetector/Bodyguard/JOAT/BackupJOAT
or
Hider/Follower/Bodyguard/Jailkeeper/JOAT/BackupJOAT

vs a scumteam that likely has Traitor + 3 scum with a invest-immune and probably a strongman.

VOTE: Beefster

The former setup seems more likely than the second. 9 town, say a useless role and VT die on D1/N1. 7 town. Hider and Weak Cop clear one townie each, no one can get guilties on Invest immune and Follower/MD can't get guilties on traitor.

Scum given a roleblock to counter town having a doc and a bunch of investigatives.

I still highkey think it's Beefster/Not_Mafia and there's something we're missing.

But fuck it, we should be lynching the guilty.

[Mathdino]

i mean there's a point where if not even beefster is going to play ball with the N_M/the worst scenario, and where his best defence is "i'm town idk what's going on", it's hard to side with him here

like he's literally voting you right now when scumteams with you/the worst and you/N_M should be impossible, and you don't seem to care

[Mathdino]

if the setup is seriously

4 mafia with a strongman, motion detector, invest immune, and gladiator

vs

JOAT, Backup JOAT, Jailkeeper, Bodyguard, Follower, Hider, Messenger, Double Daymaker, and Compulsive Visitor

this is potentially one of the most scumsided theme games i've ever seen

the only town roles that mean anything are JOAT/Backup JOAT (only the rolecop is useful because strongman), Jailkeeper (useless because strongman), Follower (only if they get the one guilty), Hider (fucking dies easily), and Double Daymaker (a direct cancel to the gladiator)

it's just ridiculous

[Mathdino]

marangal i'm at a point where it'd be ludicrous to not scumread beefster

this is the exact kind of thing i've seen him do previously as scum

flail for the craziest possible counterwagons to get towncred

like if even beef isn't willing to vote not_mafia, i'm not good with lynching N_M here

there's no town motivation in straight up not realising that from his point of view N_M is forced to be scum

[Mathdino]

That was hammer.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE:
if not

Idk I'm comfortable blaming this on Beefster.

[Mathdino]

This was insanely scumsided.

[Mathdino]

Like HILARIOUSLY scumsided. I voted on the assumption that the game was actually balanced.

[Mathdino]

Double Daymaker and Traitor Gladiator cancel each other out, as gladiator can gladiate and double day can activate to lynch the traitor.

So removing those from the setup, this is 8:3. Jailkeeper, Bodyguard, and Doctors do nothing, so we have:

Town: Hider, Follower (does nothing if A50 does the kill every day), Messenger, 1-shot Rolecop (does nothing in this setup), Backup 1-shot Rolecop (also does nothing), and Compulsive Visitor.

The only role that actually does anything to alter the way the game goes is Hider, which got killed on N1.

[Mathdino]

Add that to the capability to hit MyLo without even knowing...

idk I'm not good with this setup.

Edit: Mastina also had strong scumreads on Marangal/Beefster, so that NK was NAI.

[Mathdino]

Consider that if we lynch town D1, and Hider dies N1 along with Double Daymaker, that puts us at unannounced 6:4 MyLo on fucking day 2, where the gladiator can immediately force a town lynch (or no lynch).

[Mathdino]

Swingy is different though...

Tit for Tat is a super swingy setup. If town lynches scum on D1, fantastic, they're rightly rewarded. If vig shoots scum rolecop, great, they're rewarded. If scum get to the point where they can shoot the jailkeeper, scum is rewarded.

NSG's Winter Wonderland was swingy but balanced. It had 2 vigs; if the vigs are idiots and shoot wrong, scum is rightly rewarded.

This game can have town get utterly fucked over through basically 0 fault of its own. D1 town lynch is to be EXPECTED given how many scum there are (and this scumteam basically avoided bussing). Hider can die to traitor (again, good play), and traitor can just gladiate in the morning. Nothing town can do about it.

And potential for unannounced MyLo on D2 borders on bastard IMO.

[Mathdino]

@Dead thread stuff:

Re: protective holstering: I don't think me getting myself killed would've helped all that much. Beefster could've jailed, sure, but we didn't plan around a 4 man scumteam.

Re: Lynching Bujaber: Yeah that was my bad. Again, things I did on the assumption that scumteam was 3 people. Had I known there were 4, I would never EVER have lynched you.

And Marangal's logic over pegging the scumteam basically relied on the same assumptions I was making -- that mafia had to have a strongman role. Had I lynched based on that, it'd be a classic case of right for the wrong reasons.

I'm mulling over this and I'm realising that even if you turn the roleblocker and watcher into straight up goons, this game is STILL scumsided due to how fast town can die.

[Mathdino]

I mean you guys saw that I was voting N_M on play. Was pretty sure he was scum on play alone.

What swung me around to Beefster was when he did jackshit in fucking MyLo and then TWICE IN A ROW voted confirmed town from his POV. I figured he was scumclaiming on the hopes that we just assume the scumteam is Beef/Marangal and lynch wrong tomorrow.

That self L-1 was blacklist-level.

[Mathdino]

Like had Beefster actually voted N_M with me I would've stuck to that I'm pretty sure. He was town off play up until the ridiculous MyLo behaviour.

[Mathdino]

Gamma, this would've been balanced if the scumteam literally consisted of 3 goons and a vanilla traitor with a factional strongman. It's possible to balance 4 man scumteams in minis but instead this scumteam was completely stacked.

[Mathdino]

TW played well. Clear scum MVP considering he was the only one that wasn't blindingly obvious. I couldn't get a lynch in 6p with Beefster refusing to vote N_M but c'est la vie.

Idk I think town played this well enough up to the point of "let's assume this game isn't bastard". Seeing Jingle/Virtuoso as the reviewers some bad assumptions I think.

I just can't believe we were only afforded a single mislynch.

[Mathdino]

Town played fine, dude. I had your slot nailed as 2nd highest scumread from like your first 5 posts.

I mean we got to a point where we:

- Had acryon nailed
- Successfully no-lynched when given the choice between 2 town
- Used the double day to lynch two scum in a row

And then lynched ONE TOWN sending us into a MyLo where we lost to one player deciding to, in his own words, "gamethrow".

Town played just fine. 3 scum were obvious, one got into the townbloc. Had we had 3 more townies (balancing this around 4 scum), this would've been a clear win.

[Mathdino]

When I realised there were 4 mafia, I figured there were exactly the correct number of investigatives.

[Mathdino]

Also investigation immune goon being able to do all the kills basically nullified both follower and motion detector

Do yeah i figured an extra cop was necessary

[Mathdino]

No i can't sorry

Acryon could have used his role in a way that didn't outright claim scum, causing a d1 mislynch and sending us into Mylo

The 1 shot strongman thing is irrelevant

Plus, follower can't confirm shit

This was role madness, I've played scum bodyguard, and scum jailkeeper is a totally valid role

I assumed the mod wouldn't put in 4 roleblockers so had to go with "Beefster blocked the worst"

You guys weren't lucky, we lynched 2 of you in a row and only mislynched twice the entire game

That is good for a mini

I've never seen a town loss with this few mislynches

[Mathdino]

Like had your team played better, this would've been an absolute scum stomp

Imagine if acryon used the gladiate to prevent a town mislynch, and forced it between, say, me and InfernoBrafin

AND suppose you didn't make it hilariously obvious you were defending acryon

Just 2 mislynches is all it took for a town loss in this setup

Mafia is about dayplay, this just wasn't well designed

[Mathdino]

Notably, you also could've gotten your Kthx lynch, which would ALSO put us in totally unannounced mylo

[Mathdino]

Mastina I agreed with you on that until Beefster decided to vote Marangal, then me, then himself

I was voting Not_Mafia for a while today

IB wasn't present and Beefster basically gave up

[Mathdino]

If nothing else changes, I'm lynching Not_Mafia for doing every pro-scum thing humanly possible this game.

See here

Some things changed

[Mathdino]

But what I'm saying is when I voted there was no chance of quickhammer by any scumteams

Like I was not going to get the Not_Mafia lynch with Beefster voting every player except Not_Mafia

[Mathdino]

Had you said that I probably would've locktowned you

I assumed you were the scum keeping me alive

[Mathdino]

Oh yeah and marangal stop forgetting night actions lol

[Mathdino]

Yeah sorry for kind of devaluing your win

You were highest townread for a lot of people and you avoided scum lynches without drawing suspicion so gj

You very well could've won this even if it were balanced

[Mathdino]

Luck was part of it I guess

Tbh it was mainly assuming setup was balanced

Like I was townreading BuJaber but I lynched for mechanical reasons because I thought we had a couple mislynches available

Paradox being dumb and hiding behind the nightkill was luck tho

[Mathdino]

inferno you guys really need to work on the certainty of your reads

it gets to a point where it just blows up the gamestate and makes it impossible to get any work done

self-awareness is a major element of mafia -- being able to go through your history and recognise the actual likelihood that your reads are better than random

my D1 read on A50 is, across multiple games, SIGNIFICANTLY better than random, and i think i'm the only player here who can claim that, which is why i was so damn frustrated when no one cared
that was a justified tunnel, justified by my own skill at reading A50

my reads on marangal or beefster are not, however, better than random (in fact my read on marangal is worse than random), nor is my read on not_mafia (although i do think my ability to read N_M is currently better than random given that i was scumreading him most of the game), which is why i was uncertain in the lylo and didn't blow up the game over tunnels

your reads this game were worse than random
which is fine, but you gotta stop acting like you're better than everyone, and work on working with others

[Mathdino]

i actively follow the road to rome

what was actually hilarious was when inferno was tunneling RC's slot in 1851

and james brafin was so trusting of inferno and of his own (inaccurate) read on RC in 1851, that he used that game as ongoing meta to incorrectly read RC AGAIN in his own newbie game with RC

you guys just acted so arrogant about it (something that RC is by no means innocent of, but he's banned soooo)
it was painful to watch both games
and then see the exact same kind of behaviour toward me this game
you guys clearly saw me as the RC here but it felt like you were using your incorrect scumreads of RC in those two games to peg me as scum here

[Mathdino]

I'm gonna be real annoyed if people put the responsibility for this game on my head when I lynched 2 scum in a row, drove one mislynch, and lost Mylo to a self hammerer who refused to vote scum

[Mathdino]

Who will join me in shaming Beefster for literally saying "I'm gamethrowing"
And then gamethrowing

[Mathdino]

Ummmmmmm

Except I already agreed to Not_Mafia

But IB was trying to argue I was scum with Beefster

And Beefster voted literally everyone else

[Mathdino]

I mean i agree

But beef gamethrew instead

[Mathdino]

this may be the first time I’ve ever said this on mafiascum, but this was legitimately scumsided

MU doesn't deserve u mulch <3