Mini 588: Achewood Mafia - Game Over!

[mustafa15]

Hi everyone.

I've done a pretty quick read-through, here are my first thoughts.

I'm not really liking Lemming too much. The first fake claim felt awfully suspicious to me, but I could have let that go if Lemming hadn't basically disappeared after that. It feels like Lemming realized that he had been too risky at the beginning, and wanted to lay low for a while. However, I could easily see Lemming being a nooby townie too.

I also thought that OG seemed really scummy throughout the first few pages, a Lemming-OG scumpair seemed very likely. I believe OG's claim though, because it feels very realistic, and hard to make up. I've read through Achewood a couple of times, and that does feel like the best way to make a cop (although I probably would have made Teodor the bartender, but Cornelius is fine too), so OG is pretty much clear in my eyes now.

PBuG feels pretty townie to me, but I think that he is one of the most experienced players in this game, so he might just be really good scum, but so far I doubt it.

I'm not really sure about malthusis yet, I'll have to do another readthrough to get some more opinions, but for now i'll just

unvote, FoS Lemming1607

[mustafa15]

Okay, malthusis just overtook Lemming on the scum-o-meter with 210. Reading over his stuff, malthusis seemed moderately scummy, but not as bad as Lemming or OG, but it feels a whole lot like mal is trying to get a lemming bandwagon started, so I'm going to

vote:malthusis

. Keep in mind that we are now at lynch-1.

[mustafa15]

I've scanned through this thread a second time, and so far the only person besides PBuG that feels townie to me is populartajo. This isn't to say that I think that everyone else is scum, I just wouldn't be surprised to find out that anyone else is scum, and although I think that there is a possibility that PBuG or populartajo is scum, I would be surprised if this was the case.

[mustafa15]

Nooo!!!!! Phillippe!!!! Was he just a townie? There was a 5 next to his name, what does that mean?

I'll

vote Alabaska J

, as I said before, I believe OG's claim, and if she is lying, then there will be an easy scum lynch tomorrow. Also, Alabaska is using some really weird logic in 232, which would make sense if he is desperate scum. I don't see any reason that mafia would have a roleblocker, I think that all of the games that I have played in have had cops and no scum roleblockers (although I haven't played in too many games). Plus, Alabaska seems to have lost his cool, calling OG dumb, etc. Up until now, Alabaska has been pretty light, joking with OG.

[mustafa15]

Imagine if you are a townie, and the "cop" has just called you scum. Would you freak out a little, and try to work things out? Also, look at the newbie set-up. If there is a cop and a doc, there is a roleblocker. We seem to have a cop, and I am of the opinion this game (as most theme one's do) has a doc. This is definitely theory, but it explains everything, so I am willing to work with it. Also, I have

definitely

called OG Smokedank dumb before lol.

I realize that you have called OG dumb, but in the past it has been in a kinda jokey matter, whereas just now you were super pissed at her.

I agree that there is probably a cop or a doc, but I'm not seeing how the roleblocker is necessary. Could you maybe link me to a couple of games like this where there was a mafia roleblocker? Also, I was under the impression that roleblockers would just tell OG that her investigation was blocked or some such thing, not that they would come up guilty.

Assuming that there is no roleblocker and that you are townie, OG would be scum fake-claiming, which I could believe just because she hasn't been playing too well so far. This would basically mean that you would be sacrificed, but we would get another scum, which would leave one scum vs 7 townies (assuming that there are 3 scum in the game, which I think is pretty normal for a 12 person game, right?), which is decent odds (54% http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... %2C_Part_1). I just don't think that this whole roleblocking thing is likely. OG, could you confirm that you got a guilty for alabaska and not just a "you got blocked" or something weird?

[mustafa15]

lulu, I think that the whole bartender thing is just a way of adding flavor to the game, and that it isn't meant to be so over-analyzed.

Why are you bothered that OG investigated alabaska? Is it because you think that he was a bad choice to investigate, or are you just mad that OG wanted to lynch alabaska without evidence. I really feel that OG is just a cop that is really bad at mafia, and we can't let this stop our game. Lynching alabaska can help confirm that OG really is cop, and honestly I think that it's pretty obvious that OG would have checked alabaska, because we know that she suspects him, and so she would have investigated.

Finally, it could be possible that phillippe was drinking juice/milk

[mustafa15]

I would assume that the scum didn't try to kill OG because they expected that there would be a doctor to save her. Basically every game has a doctor, and the cop is a pretty obvious choice to save.

[mustafa15]

I'm going to be out of town for the weekend, with limited to no computer access. I think that there is really no way that we should be doing anything today besides lynching Alabaska, and that we should definitely not lynch OG, no matter how scummy she seems, unless Alabaska comes up innocent after a lynch.

@ populartajo: no, I don't think that the scum has a roleblocker. I haven't seen a scum roleblocker in a game this small before, and I don't see why one would be necessary

See you guys Monday night

[mustafa15]

Hey guys, I got back a little later than I anticipated, so I'll save a detailed analysis until tomorrow, but here are some quick and tired questions. Does anyone else want to counter-claim? If one of the two cops is lying, then I would assume that there would be another player with the role Cornelius or the creator. Well, definitely Cornelius, and I would assume the creator would be included, simply because my own role is a darn minor character. I'm pretty sure that I drink (Ketel One to be precise), and while this theme makes it pretty obvious that OG is telling the truth about her role, that doesn't mean that her investigations are correct. I doubt that DoS is scum, I instead think that there is some paranoia/insanity going on here.

And I also just want to say, this is a really cool game Nabakov, love how the role pms are playing a subtle role in the games, and it seems like the roles are pretty darn interesting too. [/suckup]

[mustafa15]

Oh yeah, and

unvote

until tomorrow, when I can actually think

[mustafa15]

the question you have to ask yuorself here is, is alabaska lying or am i lying? because one of us definitely is, so insanity/paranoia is no longer an issue.

once again: my investigation value is no longer a pertinent source for debate, since REGARDLESS of how much drink/not drink affects the setup, one of me or alabaska is lying. either alabaska is lying about his role (making him scum) or i am lying about my investigation result.

my argument: look at how alabaska reaccted when i called him scum. instead of trying to say i was lying and get me lynched, he tried to play off that i was lying about being roleblocked but was really just a townie. is this how YOU would have reacted if someone who claimed cop called you scum when you were town? no I doubt any of you would react like alabaska did.

I think that it is a very good possibility that neither of you are lying, but that you are paranoid, meaning that you will always get a result of not drinker. The way to find this out for sure is to investigate me tonight, as my role pm implies that I drink. If you find that I don't drink, than we can assume that you are paranoid, and if you find that I do drink, then we will need to do some more thinking. I agree that alabaska seemed a bit suspicious, but not enough to lynch right now when there is a doubt as to whether or not we can trust your investigations.

@DoS, was there any flavor in your role pm about drinking, or are you just a basic cop?

I think it would make the most sense if tonight DoS investigated OG and OG investigated me, although I suppose that one of those two will be killed tonight by the mafia. The doc should obviously protect one of those two.

Does anyone else want to claim cop right now? Or cornelius or chris? This would be helpful/ insanely confusing

[mustafa15]

I would say that we are doing a lot of guessing without any real action. Sorry Alabaska, but lynching you will give us a lot for information, so I'm going to

vote Alabaska J

. It's possible that you are townie, I'm not as sure as I would like to be, but if you are scum then we have a confirmed cop, and if not then we are... stuck... Also, if DoS could investigate Alabaska tonight, then we would get some more info. Does this plan sound good to you guys?

[mustafa15]

Huh. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote up 358...

I'd say that there is no way that we can lynch OG, a claimed power role, without proof that she was lying.

[mustafa15]

Yeah, we are at lynch-1, so

please don't hammer until Alabaska has a chance to claim

[mustafa15]

yeah, massclaiming sounds good, just because there aren't very many possible roles, although on second thought, that might out the doctor, which would be bad...

[mustafa15]

thinktank mentioned there might be a godfather which seems very suspicious to me because:

anyway i just want to say i fucking called it. post 145 go read it and see how awesome i am

Extended bah: OG did in fact call three scum in one post. Damn.

i'd say this pretty much means all that's left is an SK, not to mention i think at this point scum would not kill themselves for the sake of being clever (if there were a 4 scum team)

i agree with OG that whomever is SK probably thought cipher/lemming was innocent, since it would be in the SKs best interest to keep a scum group around.
i also think that the SK was either clever enough to hold a kill night one, absent enough to not get a choice in, or else the SK was roleblocked by cipher/lemming.
this makes it seem very possible that the SK thought lemming was town but lemming suspected the SK, thus the SKs night choice N2 (and possibly lemming's choice N1).

time to reread!

I don't really see how alabaska's quote tells you that there was a 3 man scum team. It just says that 3 scum were called, not that all 3 scum were called, or that 3 of the scum were called, but only that 3 were called, which we already know. It would seem sensible that if there are goons, there would be a godfather, although I'm not sure if there are enough antagonists in achewood for this. Nice Pete is pretty obviously the serial killer, but I can't really think of another bad guy. Lyle maybe???

Anyways, I'm all for a mass roleclaim, it seems like lulu muumuu and popular tajo are ok with this, and since OG has already claimed, it would be good if we could get one more person on board before we start claiming. Thinktank? Musher? Greasy Spot? Bueller? Bueller?

[mustafa15]

I think you guys are right. It's pretty obvious that there is a sk, just because 2 people were killed last night, and this is a game based on a comic with Nice Pete, a serial killer, in it. This would mean that if there was a godfather, then 5/12 people would be scum, which seems unlikely, right? Can we prod musher or something? More activity would be nice...

[mustafa15]

I'm tina (ray's girlfriend), vanilla townie

[mustafa15]

if you have a power role, you guys should be claiming it.

I don't see how claiming doctor would be a good thing, as the doctor is busy saving you at night and would be killed by the sk...

[mustafa15]

That logic in quite craptacular indeed. You are making assumptions based on no factual evidence what so ever, the fact that you may use that as an argument to lynch someone is both stupid as well as scummy. Pretty much everything in your "analysis" is based on assumptions with no actual base in reality and are just speculation. Remember, when you assume, you make an ass, out of u and me.

No, you aren't reading what he's saying well enough. Characters like Roast Beef and Teodor are so important to achewood that there is no way that the mod wouldn't have put these characters in the game. If someone claimes Roast Beef and nobody counterclaims, then they must be Roast Beef, and since RB is a protagonist, it is really doubtful that he would be scum, therefore Musher is 90% confirmed innocent.

Also, there are 7 people left, we have all role-claimed. We've pretty much established that Nice Pete is a character, and that he is the sk. Also, Lyle hasn't been claimed yet, and I would assume that he would be in the game. I could definetly see him as scum, he's on the same level of dickiness (dickyness? dickieness?) as Todd was, so I think that this is a likely scenario.

While I know you'd like to confirm yourself, populartajo, your role is small enough that it could be a very good fake claim, especially considering that she is the only claimed character that doesn't live near ray *raises eyebrows*. This certainly isn't lynch-worthy evidence, but you are nowhere near confirmed.

Therefore, the people that I would say aren't confirmed are me, populartajo, and thinktank. I would say that thinktank is the choice for today, the post I quoted above seems pretty darn defensive, and emiril is a pretty unlikely character (I realize that this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, but whatever)

vote:thinktank

[mustafa15]

The doctor would be foolish to claim right now, because then he/she would be killed by the mafia while protecting OG.

Would it be possible that both the sk and the mafia both tried to kill the same person the first night? Or would they like, cancel eachother out or something? I think that this is pretty likely because PBuG was a pretty logical choice to kill.

I seriously doubt that OG is scum becuase nobody has counter-claimed the role of Cornelius and Cornelius wouldn't be scum.

[mustafa15]

In the meanwhile, calling people out on craptastic logic doesn't make you scum. I don't know who any of these characters are as I'm not even remotely familiar with the flavour of this game, other than what I've picked up in this game. All I know is, my name is Emiril, my role says I'm a townie. Not a vanilla townie as some others have claimed and apparently my character drinks, smokes and has job trashspotting? . How about making assertions on who is scum based on factual evidence, rather than self deemed probabilities which are meaningless.

Have you even read our arguments? Our evidence is about as factual as it gets.

FACT #1: Roast Beef is a very important character in Achewood

FACT #2: There are some characters in the game (Todd, possibly Emiril,O possible Phillippe's mom, possibly Tina) that are far far less important that Roast Beef

FACT #3: Our mod is familiar with achewood

CONCLUSION #1: Roast Beef must be a character in the game.

FACT #4: Musher333 has claimed Roast Beef

FACT #5: Everybody else has claimed, and nobody else has claimed Roast Beef

CONCLUSION #2: Musher333=Roast Beef

FACT #6: Roast Beef is a protagonist.

CONCLUSION #3: Musher333 is probably innocent

(Repeat for lulu muumuu, Greasy Spot, and OG Smokedank)

FACT #7: Emeril is not a main character

FACT #7a: He appears in the comic once or twice a year

CONCLUSION #4: He is not necessarily in the game, although it is possible

CONCLUSION #5: Emeril would be a logical scum-claim

DISCLAIMER: It is possible that Emeril is in fact in the game, but it is less likely that Emeril would be in the game than any of the following (Roast Beef, Cornelius, Molly, Teodor, Phillippe, Pat, Todd, Lie Bot, Chris Onstead,

Nice Pete, Lyle

)

FACT #8: Two people died last night

CONCLUSION #6: We have two scum groups

FACT #9: There is a serial killer in the comic achewood, Nice Pete

CONCLUSION #7: There is a serial killer in the game as well as the mafia group

FACT #10: Lyle is a far more important character than Emeril

CONCLUSION #8: If Emeril is in the game, Lyle is in the game

FACT #11: Lyle is an asshole, at least as much of an asshole as Todd was

FACT #12: We have killed goons, but no godfather

CONCLUSION #9: Lyle is the mafia godfather

(Repeating for populartajo and mustafa)

CONCLUSION #10: One or two of [mustafa, populartajo, thinktank] are scum

I know that I am not scum, so I'm obviously not voting for myself. Between populartajo and thinktank, I think that populartajo is less scummy, (see my post 222 for proof that I'm not just making this up now, I realize that I have no real proof, but I've been getting good vibes from populartajo). This is why I voted thinktank. If thinktank is lynched and the game is not over, then tonight OG should investigate either me or populartajo.

[mustafa15]

OG, what is your role name?

[mustafa15]

we're actually saying the same thing. you are saying you are a cop. drinkers=town. you've never gone back on that. what i'm saying is that your results and people's role claims don't seem to match up with your "cop" abilities. and i wasn't trying to say that you told us you're a flavor cop, but i know that's what i think you are now (don't know about anyone else). i think the chances are really slim there're two sane/real cops in a mini and DoS is our confirmed, sane cop.

I don't see how DoS is any more confirmed to be sane than OG is. OG has correctly found alabaska to be scum, and also correctly found DoS to be innocent, so if he really is a cop, then he really is sane. I realize that it would normally be odd to have two cops, but keep in mind that there are two different scum groups, for a total of 4 or 5 scum. The game would feel a bit too stacked against the town unless the town had some other advantage, such as two cops.[/sup]

[mustafa15]

OG, what is your role name?

read the fucking thread

You have said both that your pm says that you are a cop, and that it implies that you are a cop. Does it actually say cop in it, or does it have some other name?

[mustafa15]

where did we get the conclusion that there were two different scum groups?

Two people died in the same night, one of them was scum, and nobody claimed a killing role.

[mustafa15]

where did we get the conclusion that there were two different scum groups?

Two people died in the same night, one of them was scum, and nobody claimed a killing role.

SKs are considered a scum group?

Oh, they aren't? I assumed they were because they weren't pro-town, but I might be mistaken, I've only played around 5 games

[mustafa15]

where did we get the conclusion that there were two different scum groups?

Two people died in the same night, one of them was scum, and nobody claimed a killing role.

SKs are considered a scum group?

Oh, they aren't? I assumed they were because they weren't pro-town, but I might be mistaken, I've only played around 5 games

I was under the impression that they are third party because to win they would need scum to be dead aswell.

Yeah I suppose. In that case, let me fix this.

I realize that it would normally be odd to have two cops, but keep in mind that there are two different scum groups, for a total of 4 or 5 scum. The game would feel a bit too stacked against the town unless the town had some other advantage, such as two cops.

I realize that it would normally be odd to have two cops, but keep in mind that there are 4 or 5 people that are anti-town, and that two people are being killed in a night. The game would feel a bit too stacked against the town unless the town had some other advantage, such as two cops.

[mustafa15]

But if one is a flavour cop there is no substantial information at this point to say that only town aligned people drink.

What do you mean by flavor cop? Every result that OG has gotten so far has been confirmed correct...