Mini Theme 2077 - Restless Spirits Mafia [ENDED]

[Montosh]

VOTE: rosterfoster

Your profile pic looks more like a chicken to me...

[Montosh]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Motosh

Motosh

Motosh

Motosh

Motosh

No. This will not stand.

VOTE: Elbirn

[Montosh]

So as I told Ank when confirming my role, it's basically an obligatory anti-town town role which there is some theoretical advantage to but which I as a player can see nothing but negative utility for.

As such, I see no reason to not claim it and every reason TO claim it since fuck no that's not a role I'm ever using why would I?

I'm a one-shot exorcist; my ability, expel the demons, will permanently shut down my target's ability to have a medium PT--including shutting down any existing one. And worse--they themselves will be prevented from becoming a restless spirit.

Why the fuck I'd ever want to use that power I don't know but I sure as fuck am not going to. Still needs to be claimed tho to get it out in the open.

What's even the theoretical utility of that role?

[Montosh]

I guess if you think they're scum?

[Montosh]

I give slight town points for the out of the gate claim (I guess cause I wouldn't do it as scum), but the fact that it's a role that she says she'll never use is... meh.

It's also not inconceivable that scum would have some sort of medium breaking ability in this setup. Does seem like it'd be more useful in their hands.

[Montosh]

Eh if I don’t scumread someone that’s usually what I do.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: rosterfoster

Care to give us some meta on that? Because that seems like an odd way to go about things and not very pro-town.

[Montosh]

A bit. Seems to me that all you're doing is focusing on whoever happened to get the most votes near the beginning, mostly RVS votes anyway. Just seems like a good way to annoy a (likely) fellow towny.

If it weren't page 3 I probably wouldn't vote on it, but since it is and you say it's something you've done before I'm curious how it helps town.

[Montosh]

That was @roster btw

[Montosh]

For *reasons* I’m not sure this is scum here.

Are you saying lil is scum or are you now claiming there are vague reasons for scumreading me?

Neither. I don’t think Montosh is scum for *reasons*

Montosh annoying a fellow townie is a decent way to figure out whether they are a townie or not.

Sure I agree. But I wanted to hear your reasoning on it.

You planning to keep *reasons* to yourself?

[Montosh]

Actually I think it's fine according to this: viewtopic.php?p=10572192#p10572192

[Montosh]

I wouldn’t have voted if I was avoiding.

then tell us why it was a good vote?


Why did you claim, Mastina?

I feel Montosh’s 53 is a bad faith question. A line of questioning where his intention is to make his own point or zinger instead of truly wanting to know Rooster’s meta.

Don’t get me wrong, self-meta can be used in the case of a defense but not when you are trying to say you are townie.

How is that bad faith? Roster literally said:

Eh if I don’t scumread someone

that’s usually what I do

.

Suggesting there was some meta to it. Given that he was using it as justification for a vote it seemed perfectly reasonable to ask for an example of that in a previous game.

[Montosh]

Well but we have no real way to confirm the alignment. I mean given that the whole medium thing is the central mechanic here it'd seem likely that scum would have such an ability as well, since it would seem to be more useful to them.

[Montosh]

Do you have a better one?

I don’t vote without a reason unless it’s to prevent a no lynch, so you’re asking the wrong person.

Well.
This game just became :easymode:.
While Titus is still probably scum.
And there's a fair chance that one of Gamma/NMSA is scum.

VOTE: Rx Strange Brew

This IS scum.

In addition to Gamma's question above, I'd also be interested in what I'm missing from RSB's post that screams scum

[Montosh]

Do you have a better one?

I don’t vote without a reason unless it’s to prevent a no lynch, so you’re asking the wrong person.

VOTE: Rx Strange Brew

A player refusing to be VCA read. Well it's a good policy lynch.

I don't think that's what they said. I feel like the "without a reason" modifier made that clear. I would, however, like some vote(s) from this slot (just any vote will do actually).

I'd also be interested in what I'm missing from RSB's post that screams scum

Respectfully, that's better for me to hold back on giving away.

I'll give a hint tho:

nancy is in this game?

This question provides insight as to why.

I'm not up to date on nancy meta so maybe I'm missing something but this means nothing to me.

[Montosh]

I've got a pretty strong town read on Mastina. It's based around Mastina commenting on her role, it fits very naturally in a "town that got a shit role" type of attitude. While I don't agree that the role is as anti-town as she makes it out to be, I can understand why someone would claim the way she did considering her thoughts around its utility. I'm also getting the impression that she really believes in her reasoning in 78.

Are you at all concerned by the fact that Mastina apparently does have scum meta for a claim like this though?

tbf, I think Roster would jump on a growing bandwagon regardless of alignment.

Why do you think that?

[Montosh]

Are you at all concerned by the fact that Mastina apparently does have scum meta for a claim like this though?

No. I think her comments around the claim is what makes her townie here, not the claim itself.

See one of her comments that pinged me a bit on reflection was 77. She says that if we got to a massclaim situation and she claimed a supposedly anti-town role she never used that she'd be immediately lynched. But like I don't get this. It's exactly the kind of role you might expect to find in a game where the central mechanic is talking to dead players. You'd expect a role to break that up. Why would we lynch there in a massclaim necessarily? Why, as town, would you immediately give scum that extra info and make it even easier to sort other slots?

I don't feel like the logic holds up.

[Montosh]

Nope why?

[Montosh]

See one of her comments that pinged me a bit on reflection was 77. She says that if we got to a massclaim situation and she claimed a supposedly anti-town role she never used that she'd be immediately lynched. But like I don't get this. It's exactly the kind of role you might expect to find in a game where the central mechanic is talking to dead players. You'd expect a role to break that up.

This is what I meant when I said that I got the impression that she really believed what she said in 78. I don't think the whole "

I'd just get lynched

" thing is logical either, but it's not particularly scummy either. .

I'm not sure about this. This feeling of "I'd be immediately lynched in a massclaim situation" is immediately apparent to me (and it seems to you as well) as not being logical. She

should

be able to see that too it seems to me. Given that and the fact that there's some prior meta which would be consistent with this kind of play as scum makes me increasingly nervous.

See one of her comments that pinged me a bit on reflection was 77. She says that if we got to a massclaim situation and she claimed a supposedly anti-town role she never used that she'd be immediately lynched. But like I don't get this. It's exactly the kind of role you might expect to find in a game where the central mechanic is talking to dead players. You'd expect a role to break that up. Why would we lynch there in a massclaim necessarily? Why, as town, would you immediately give scum that extra info and make it even easier to sort other slots?

I don't feel like the logic holds up.

Do you agree that its utility is antitown though? I understand why someone would treat it like a miller role.

But it's different. This role doesn't passively mess with nice actions like a miller would. She has total control over it. So I don't see it as being inherently anti-town necessarily. Maybe difficult to use effectively. But ultimately she just didn't need to claim it and just not use the role if she felt that way.

[Montosh]

Just some quick thoughts regarding this whole Nancy thing.

Nancy's frustration level here don't make any sense for someone who was excited to be in this game; 106/107. Tonally, it's not even remotely natural, and the way she handled Roster's vote just feels forced to me. I'm not valuing the fact that she's replacing out into any of this since it's her initial reaction to the vote that bothers me the most.

I still believe that Creature is scum, but I'm more content placing my vote here because of the above.

VOTE: RX.

Why not? I mean I don't entirely get what's going on but clearly there's some issue between nancy and roster that must involve an ongoing game or something. I don't feel like the frustration (or the replace out) is particularly AI either way?

I dislike Creature's opening posts and find them forced. It's based on fairly flimsy reasoning considering what he's contributed so far, and something I'd rather not go into.

The above still stands true and is the reason why I haven't gone too much into it. It's not "playing those cards close to my chest", it's just something I don't think I have to go into yet until he contributes more. I can go into it into more detail though.

I think 100 is a poor attempt to throw away what was a legit discussion with the whole Mastina thing. There are a lot of reasons why it was still discussed, and I find it odd why someone would question why it's still being discussed. It basically got the game going, and is still the main topic of discussion.

104 is flat-out false considering how many people brought up in this game that Town!Mastina doesn't do this. It feels like such a lazy read when there were a lot of discussions before this. I don't believe that the only read he got from the previous pages is Town!Mastina.

I don't like Creature's posting but I feel like it's kinda his style. I'm not sure how much you can get out of this. I'd definitely like to see more contribution from him though. But given that we're having a very slow and replacement-heavy game so far there's probably more lurky slots that need to be evaluated as well (LUV for one). Why do you feel Creature is particularly scummy compared to some other similar slots?

VOTE: RAS

Yeah there is no way Flavour slot is scum.

What convinced you of this enough to switch your vote?

[Montosh]

No it’s more the fact that I can’t see her faking that level of emotion (and it really would be faked if she was scum as it seems like she thinks I’m a terrible town player or smth).

Also Flavour can never roll scum in games I’m in.

Frustration is not a town-tell. Scum can easily be emotionally invested too. For the life of me I don't get why that would make the slot seem at all less scummy.

Nancy was being absolutely ridiculous and I refuse to attribute either townliness or scumliness to her behavior

Thanks for reading

This basically

[Montosh]

Didn't notice RAS replaced out when I asked all that fine...

[Montosh]

I've got no meta on being hydra with you as scum. In any case, I think it's perfectly possible for some people to become frustrated no matter their alignment. I think it's pretty NAI.

[Montosh]

I've got no meta on being hydra with you as scum. In any case, I think it's perfectly possible for some people to become frustrated no matter their alignment. I think it's pretty NAI.

Sure. But she has no reason to get frustrated as scum in that scenario as scum with the Leaf.

In practice, everyone should read it as NAI, but in theory, and for post game, everyone should know that it was actually town indicative. We can move on past that. I'm just narcissistic.

Fair enough

[Montosh]

I'd also be interested in what I'm missing from RSB's post that screams scum

Respectfully, that's better for me to hold back on giving away.

I'll give a hint tho:

nancy is in this game?

This question provides insight as to why.

I'm still not satisfied with this. What do you think of this slot now that it's occupied by Flavor Leaf? And why are you conflating your role, which is only anti-town if you use it badly (and is definitely not if you never use it), with roles that passively screw with night actions?

VOTE: mastina

[Montosh]

Also I'm willing to give the Clemency slot some time to post and such. RAS was doing a fair bit of flailing but I could see it coming from town too.

[Montosh]

Mastina has a tendency to tunnel town me.

Any examples of this?

[Montosh]

Also I'm willing to give the Clemency slot some time to post and such. RAS was doing a fair bit of flailing but I could see it coming from town too.

he was saying there were bad votes on him, not that scum were voting him, though, and he was pushing me as scum, and I obviously knew his pushing of Nancy being AI was wrong.

Elbirn pushed the NAI thing and everyone should read it that way as wrong too.

Roster sheeps and tries to mindmeld with his town reads as town, and could have easily been scum going onto Ras, but Ras didn't state any of that. He just called them bad votes, which makes me feel he was scum caught for the wrong reasons kind of deal.

I'll have to ISO him later. I don't know but at first glance it feels like a very easy vote and very lynch-baity to me. I think all the replace-outs are messing with me here.

which lurkers?

like, uh
lil uzi vert
nmsa
i guess gamma counts

Just because they're lurkers? Anything stand out about any of them to you or is it just the lurking?

[Montosh]

I found it to be bad faith because it came off to me as if you’re trying to get Rooster to say he is town for it as opposed to showing why your particular argument might’ve been invalid.

This is still not making sense to me. Roster said "this is something I usually do" which is a factual claim. I asked for evidence to back up this factual claim. As in other games where he does this. He made a meta justification for actions and I asked for that meta.

Where am I not making sense to you?

And he still hasn't answered this.

**Lil Uzi Vert has been prodded on request**

For the record, I don’t like this.

I will force town to policy lynch me if anyone seriously requests for me to be prodded again.

Prod requests after 48 hours are part of the rules. This is a really exaggerated response. It strikes as fake frustration. Like I'm sure you glanced a the activity expectations when you started the game why is this such a big surprise to you and why are you making it a big deal?

[Montosh]

The votes keep being bad.

I don't know how to respond to this. Do you have a question?

[Montosh]

It's exactly the kind of role you might expect to find in a game where the central mechanic is talking to dead players.

A role which if you didn't claim it prior and didn't use it prior, to massclaim, your thoughts on the alignment of the player with it would be...

...Which alignment?

Town. Or scum. Depends on the player and how the game progressed. I'm not seeing automatic scumreads in a massclaim scenario. Am I the only one here?

Why, as town, would you immediately give scum that extra info and make it even easier to sort other slots?

Because if this is a role scum knowing about is a pro-scum thing for, then scum utilizing this info does nothing but good for the town.

For instance, say my role is a hard counter to a scum role and they've got panic to knowing that if I have an inkling of how to use it properly, it fucks their scum role over. They do something to stop that--but this is information I'd NEVER have, and the town would NEVER have, if not for the claim. If scum had a role which my role were a hard counter to, without me claiming it, I'd have no way of knowing said scum role existed. But by claiming my role, if said scum role exists, then scum's reaction to my role could give me an insight into the existence of what said role could be.

(I've thought about hypotheticals, but mostly they involve a scum being some sort of possessive spirit of some kind who can, I dunno, control the vote of the town player they're assigned to as a medium, or force the town player to commit the scum factional nightkill, or things like that. And if a scum role like that exists, then the scum panicking about MY role existing is worth claiming it.)

I'm definitely feeling this setup spec here. Seems like something that might be possible and a reason for such a role to exist in town hands. But I still have questions then. I mean, for one you're saying that claiming might panic the scum if they have a role you counter. But do you really think that "panic" is going to make them do enough for you to be able to sniff them out?

And I mean if that is true and they're panicking why not just nk you ASAP? Render your counter useless? If you're town, then you seem to be risking a lot for no tangible gain as I can see it. Why not just keep your role secret and try to sniff them out without publicly revealing yourself? If they do have such a role as you're suggesting they might then they'll maybe guess that a role like yours exists anyway. I still don't see why you give them the extra info of whose slot it's in.

Was this on your mind when you made the claim? Or have these ideas come together more in the last few days?

[Montosh]

VOTE: Montosh

Hey how's it going?

[Montosh]

And why are you conflating your role, which is only anti-town if you use it badly (and is definitely not if you never use it), with roles that passively screw with night actions?

You see a difference between them.
I see none.

I don't see how. You have control over what it does to night actions. The roles you're comparing it to do not. They're not at all the same.

[Montosh]

Mastina has a

tendency

to tunnel town me.

Any examples of this?

Just one that I can remember. It was expected based on comments in dead threads on my some of my older scum victories, though, that I knew that there was a high possibility based on the types of players we are that she'd push me when I'm town.

That's all I need to know she has the tendency to tunnel town me, but I feel she might adapt afterwards. I've tunneled town her once as well.

I'll find the game later for you, if you want. There might have been more, but only one I can remember. We

haven't played too much

.

What I'm getting here is she tunneled you one game. How is that a tendency?

[Montosh]

Ok RAS:

---

133 Opening post. Has a town-read of mastina not because he agrees with her logic but because he feels it's a town reaction to have. This was similar to my initial reaction so I don't really fault it. Has some mostly tonal townreads on Titus/Nero/myself. It's early in the game and there's not much to go on so I don't see anything up with this. Votes Creature based on their opening posts and doesn't give much explanation.

158 Having a discussion with me about the mastina claim issue, which is the major thing to come up to this point. Don't agree with his logic but he made arguments in what I feel to be good faith.

206 Votes for the Rx/leaf slot after nancy's issue with roster. More tonal arguments. Also can't fault him for this. I kinda agreed with it to some extent until the replace out which I felt was pretty NAI.

208 CMM challenges RAS on the Creature read and provides two posts he didn't like. Good points, especially 104, where Creature is ignoring the fact that this was the main discussion and somehow deciding that mastina having meta for this as scum doesn't matter. This is a good post and not at all scum.

218 Ironic since they would also later replace out. But half-right. Frustration is not a town-tell and I can't stand when people say it is. It's NAI at best.

Next few posts explaining and talking about the nancy thing

229 Right to point out that roster's read didn't have much attached to it

233 Clearly annoyed, getting aggressive. Decides to relent and move onto Creature. I don't see this as a bad thing if town. Moving on from a discussion that isn't going anywhere at that time is a good town thing to do. Gives people a little time to breathe (and yourself most of all) so you think clearly. The subsequent votes clearly messed that up and he got annoyed and replaced out. Sucks that he did that and it's on him, but it's not scum. The flailing on Rx is the closest thing you might get to scum here and reading through it the slot seems town.

I don't know that's all I got. I don't like the RAS/Clemency wagon. I don't like how there seems to be little resistance to it. It feels off.

[Montosh]

tendency was the wrong word, I agree. More like a knack.

Also, you said "easy to vote and lynch baity" which are NOT words associated with Ras ever.

Don't know RAS. But in this game the slot seem easy to vote and lynch-baity. As was your slot to some extent. In many ways for the same reason, an emotional replace-out.

The wagons against both of you seem to be for some similar reasons. Why is one better than the other?

[Montosh]

Is NMSA even here? What are your thoughts on the last 10 or so pages?

[Montosh]

tendency was the wrong word, I agree. More like a knack.

Also, you said "easy to vote and lynch baity" which are NOT words associated with Ras ever.

Don't know RAS. But in this game the slot seem easy to vote and lynch-baity. As was your slot to some extent. In many ways for the same reason, an emotional replace-out.

The wagons against both of you seem to be for some similar reasons. Why is one better than the other?

Because Ras is Ras, and Nancy is Nancy.

Crappy to meta it there, but can't help it. I'm also conf bias because I know we're town.

They're similar sure, but they aren't the same.

It's like The Force Awakens to A New Hope; they definitely follow a similar narrative with a lot of parallels, but are they the same thing to you?

Well I'm saying the wagons seem to be for somewhat similar reasons. I can understand using meta to some extent for your reasoning, and I take people at their word that this is not unheard of for nancy to do. Indeed that's a big part of the reason I don't scumread your slot for that whole debacle.

But for all of RAS's flailing towards the end, it doesn't seem like something that couldn't come from town and before that there was a fair amount of discussion on reads that seemed to be in good faith to me. His ISO just doesn't seem scummy.

[Montosh]

VOTE: Montosh

Hey how's it going?

Hi Montosh. I think Mastina is essentially a named miller and I think it was fair to claim, so I didn't like your 304.

(Also for ease of reading, can someone remind me how to hyperlink posts? I'm VERY rusty on Mafia-relevant formatting, I've been hiding away in the Speezy for too long)

I mean, again, mastina apparently has a meta of doing this as scum and the role she's claiming is exactly a kind of role you might expect scum could have. I can understand reading it as town but I can't see being so confident as to call them that.

Also [post]post number here[./post] (without the dot obviously)

[Montosh]

I’m not sure who RAS is but he stated he has experience with Nancy in 227 and 228. So it’s even more baffling to me that he’s taken aback by her flipping out here. There is even a thread she recently started in MD asking how to not hate mafia which gives us even more insight on just where’s she at right now in terms of the game in general.

I’m also in very much agreement with 241 and 242. The way he threw in the towel looked a lot worse to me to be honest. Elbirn and Rooster didn’t have any reasoning for their vote and it’s not like he stated a town read on either before they casted. To be upset at them is a bit off unless he knows there town.

He then clams up the rest of the way and states he doesn’t care that much in 250. This begs the questions of why did he even replace in? He didn’t have a lot of time as he stated in his first post. He also finds the majority of players on the site and the site as a whole terrible. Just reads like scum caught for the wrong reasons here.

This is a decent argument. I wonder about 227/228 though. Like he references experience with nancy and then goes on to say that he's only "heard" about her as being a good player, suggesting that he's never actually played with her. Those posts are odd to me and I don't know how to read them because they seem to directly contradict each other.

Not so sure about 241/242. If I see a few bad votes coming my way (if they seem bad to me anyway), i'll probably assume some are from town. Not sure I can read as much into it.

Also, it does appear that RAS has stopped playing entirely the last few days since he replaced out.

What you’re asking him to prove is a bit unreasonable. Rooster claims to always vote the highest wagon when he doesn’t have a scum read. There’s no way for him to prove that in any of his previous games.

Wasn't really asking for proof just wanted an example. It was early game and it seemed to be a way to not take account for the way they were voting. Why do you think that's unreasonable?

It’s insulting. Nero fully well knows I’m the exact opposite of a lurker.

He seems to be doing it to everyone who goes 48 hours without posting. And you gotta admit the 72 hours is unusual. I'm a lot more used to a 48 hour limit expectation as are many on this site including Nero I'd assume.

If we're looking at lurkers there are definitely more egregious candidates (NMSA, gamma) sure. But I don't see a huge problem with holding people to what's in the rules.

[Montosh]

Montosh (75%) and probably LUV (60%) are town. I really want to keep scumreading mastina (60%) for the claim, but some stuff has seemed kinda townie since. Still leaving my vote there though. If I had to guess, I'd say (20%) FL is town, and (30%) Clem is town, (17%) scum.

Why all of these?

[Montosh]

Is this essentially policy votes or are y'all actually scum reading the slot?

+1 to this question.

[Montosh]

Hey A50!

[Montosh]

Sorry about your hand.

Also Titus definitely feels like active lurking to me. Can someone with meta tell if they usually post like this?

Or I guess I could read through their posts myself but meh...

[Montosh]

Mastina may not have a prod but she's deffo searching the thread for her name. Her timing is very Beetlejuicy.

I do this too to be fair. I feel like lots of people do. If someone is talking about me it tends to ping a "hey I should probably say something here"

pedit: A50 iirc I was saying scum might also have such an ability in that post. Later on people say she has a meta for this and I don't like the logic she's using... you'll see my later posts anyway

[Montosh]

For some reason I townread you now.

Fine. I can sheep this. I just ISOed her and she seems to be saying very little yet posting a fair amount.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Titus

pedit: Can we just stop with the prod fights? Nero I can get behind prodding lurkers but mastina just didn't post for 48 hours but she's obviously contributing to the game here.

[Montosh]

But Nero mastina isn't lurking. I think you can judge pretty objectively that there's a difference between mastina's input and NMSA's for example even though the latter isn't being prodded.

[Montosh]

I'd request a prod on NMSA if I could.

As would I. But they're not the same. I'd say there's a difference between mastina and LUV for example, the latter I think was lurking towards the start of the game whereas I don't think you could say the same of mastina.

I just don't think it's as productive in this case.

[Montosh]

I could see a scum being on the gamma wagon. I'd bet Titus or (less so) Elbirn if I had to.

[Montosh]

So I guess the case is active lurk+go with the flow gamma vote

This basically. Plus people I townread are on it so this seems as good a wagon as any at this point.

[Montosh]

So I guess the case is active lurk+go with the flow gamma vote

This basically. Plus people I townread are on it so this seems as good a wagon as any at this point.

Like a good half of her posts seem to RVS + non-game related stuff + setup spec about the mastina thing. Even more if you add talking about other games and mastina's meta.

Some of these things can be useful but it's too much and I see few substantive posts so far.

[Montosh]

You know what? I'm going on Clemency. I dislike RAS' out. I don't think comparisons to Nancy's exit are in good faith. I don't see anything in Clemency's posts that screams town. I see some filler posting (which you guys have a problem with from Titus) and I see a VERY convenient "oh I guess the lurkers are scum " list. And I don't like that this is being gotten away with.
VOTE: Clemency
PEDIT what

I don't feel it's entirely the same though. Titus appears to be posting to appear active while saying comparatively little despite being in the game since it started. Clemency doesn't appear to be doing that. They just seem to be lurking more, and RAS was contributing in what I thought was good faith despite the way they exited later.

I honestly don't see them as being all that similar.

Also I'm willing to give the Clemency slot some time to post and such. RAS was doing a fair bit of flailing but I could see it coming from town too.

Clemency has had time to post. What do you say now?

I could see Clemency's lurking coming from town. I think lurking is scummy but I think Titus' active lurking is more scummy.

[Montosh]

As a follow up CMM. If it were just Clemency I might be voting with you here but RAS seemed towny in the way they were approaching the arguments to me. That makes me hesitate. I can't ignore my read on the previous player despite whoever currently occupies the slot.

[Montosh]

To be clear I'm not directly comparing them based on that trait. The point I'm trying to make is that if x behaviour is being called scummy in person a, why is it being ignored in b?

Because it's not x behaviour in both. I see active lurking as very different from lurking. It's lurking with the intent of appearing to look like you're not. I get a much stronger sense of active lurking from Titus.

[Montosh]

Ok, consider this: is that just down to the timescale each has been in the game?

To some extent yes. Like I said if it was just Clemency in that slot the whole game I might vote with you right now. But my read on RAS still stands. I ISOed them in a previous post and came away with town vibes.

[Montosh]

@CMM: Since you're obviously on now and I'm still catching up.. did you post anything that's AI for you yet? If so.. can you point it out?

Also lol

[Montosh]

I could see a scum being on the gamma wagon. I'd bet Titus or (less so) Elbirn if I had to.

Explain why you think me + gamma wagon = scummy plez

For some reason I thought you were later on the wagon. I grouped you in there because I'm getting slight active lurking vibes, less so than Titus though. I wasn't a big fan of the gamma wagon overall since it seemed kinda clear that gamma just wasn't onsite at that point. The string of naked votes there felt off to me.

It's some gut feeling there. It's not super strong. I would ISO you more closely if I intended to vote you.

[Montosh]

Say, who did skitter replace again?

Go home A50, you're drunk

[Montosh]

What if I said that by the end if page 12 I am thinking 2 scums are in LUV/CMM/Elbrin

Also, maybe/no/maybe

pedit: lol no worries

[Montosh]

I unironically enjoyed listening to that

[Montosh]

@mod is the deadline supposed to say 30th?

Guys I'm moving to Boston on Wednesday (so my timezone is gonna shift dramatically) and I'm gonna be limited access for a couple of days cos I'll need to find an apartment or something. I'm conscious of the fact that that's gonna be right around deadline. Can we try to inject some momentum back into the game?

Vote Titus then

In all seriousness you're on what appears to be the main wagon. So as long as you discuss more about it while you can I don't see what else we can do in this regard.

I still think Mastina is scummy despite most ppl town reading her after her outbust.

For me it was more that she seemed be honestly engaging in my arguments with her about the claim in a way I found convincing, even if I didn't necessarily agree with it. Though it's true that the whole issue with you seemed like T v T to me. What still strikes you as scummy?

Technically, but what has it really accomplished? What Nero doesn’t seem to understand is that there is a difference between lurking and not playing the game. A lurker is someone who posts below a certain frequency threshold. It's very possible to post infrequently, but have every post have content. So this vendetta against lurkers doesn’t quite make sense to me.

I don’t find 72 hours unusual at all. In fact, I’m surprised it’s not the default. Sometimes my input isn’t necessarily required for every subject that comes up and can even be detrimental as it can lead to too much activity for other players in the game. Sometimes it is better to watch what other people are posting and make an effort to note their play and develop reads. Sometimes I roll a PR where it’s optimal for me to maintain a low profile. Sometimes I’m swarmed in real life. And sometimes, contrary to popular belief, I just don’t feel like posting.

I mean I consider lurking not really contributing to the game. So for example Titus is far more a lurker than you despite having posted more. But I mean your whole argument seems like a case against posting requirements in general. I like 48 hours just because it seems like the arguments of the day evolve enough over every 48 hour period that it'd be good if we got everyone's input on record. Not that we do of course. But even if it's just like "I agree with x's opinion", I feel like that's better than nothing.

[Montosh]

im just happy to be alive

What are your opinions on the gamestate? Reads? The wagons we currently have?

[Montosh]

Look at his latest post and compare it to Nero's calling me out. Nero's straight and no nonsense. He wants me to get the game going and be the hyper poster I used to be. His motivation is to read me, not attack from the side.

Look at Macintosh latest posting. He casually tells you to vote me. He suggests that you're voting apparently the largest wagon and prattles off about random noise about talking more.

His words are talking just to talk. There's no way to make sense of his goals.

My current goal is to get you lynched. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Like seriously what does this even mean? Are you referring to 670? Where I use this emoji and then go "In all seriousness"? CMM is talking about the logistics of being away and trying to get this game going. I simply suggest that being on a main wagon and then adding discussion is all he can do to make that happen.

You are so scummy.

VOTE: Macintosh

Spoiler:

Hey what's up Creature?

[Montosh]

What still strikes you as scummy?

*shrugz*

For me, nothing has really changed. I still think her decision to role claim doesn't make sense from town.

Her argument that she needed to claim b/c millers and ascetics (and pgo's and roles that directly fuck with night actions) do doesn't make sense to me. It comes off as LAMIST.

I agree it doesn't really make sense. But I felt her argument was in good faith. It seemed genuine to me. Like I could see her believing it was maybe the right thing to do as town.

And this is just a gut sense that is hard to write down I guess. Maybe it's because she seemed to genuine engage with my concerns/arguments in a Day where most people seem to be ignoring them.

Every game has a day that you massclaim in.

she's worried about having to claim that role in massclaim. That is

EONS

away. Why would town, that's supposedly often a scum NK, be worried about being alive on day 4 or whenever its mass claim time?

but then there's also the built-in excuse of "I have an anti-town role, no wonder I haven't been night killed yet"

This does worry me. Even if she's town scum are gonna WIFOM the shit out of it given that people already suspect her on this. She may very well be the optimal lynch for that reason. But I'm getting a lot of scum pings from Titus and mild town ones from her so not sure I could do that right now. Also I don't agree that her role is necessarily anti-town so if she is town I want her around.

I think this is fake derp. She has a role that could potentially take away scum's RS ability (if they have one) and maybe even their PT

I'm pretty sure based on how she described it that it doesn't take away their scum PT. The "including shutting down any existing one" was definitely in reference to medium PTs it seems to me. Can you confirm that mastina?

of course, ppl are town reading her b/c big bad Nero requested a prod on her and she's angry and threw a fit. Not like scum can't aTe. And it's not like she wasn't around and posting elsewhere.

Honestly, I'm not seeing the big deal from either her or LUV.

That's really not why I townread her. Also it seems like she was posting a fair bit here along with her other games looking at her post history.

And yeah LUV I feel is kinda scummy. Their prod reaction definitely felt like fake outrage to me.

[Montosh]

She has a role that could potentially take away scum's RS ability (if they have one) and maybe even their PT

My ability is specifically for the dead, so doesn't work on the scum PT.

Also?

Taking away the ability of a scum restless spirit?

...Still not pro-town.

Because having a scum player dead and using their restless spirit ability is still valuable to the town and not something the town should want to take away from them. The reasons for this are stupidly obvious when you think about it, but are technically speaking best left unsaid, for obvious reasons if you correctly thought of them.

Maybe I'm missing the stupidly obvious but I don't see what town can gain from a medium PT with scum? At best you gain nothing from them and at worst they're able to manipulate you somehow?

[Montosh]

Kinda struggling with this. Self interest screams to vote her but I feel there are stronger candidates. Either a, she's threatened scum or b, liability town. Mastina and I both get better with time though.

Btw this is so LAMIST.

This basically.

[Montosh]

I'm a little out of practice. What does LAMIST stand for again?

Look at me I'm so town.

Basically doing or saying things just to look town to others rather than doing them because you really are town trying to advance your wincon.

[Montosh]

Question: Which in your opinion would have been townie? Staying on a stronger scumread with a dying wagon (you) or voting an anti-town read with a moving wagon?

I think my stances have been clear but you're labeling town behavior as LAMIST and I wonder why.

It was this bit mainly:

Kinda struggling with this.

Self interest screams to vote her but I feel there are stronger candidates

. Either a, she's threatened scum or b, liability town. Mastina and I both get better with time though.

Exclaiming how you're not even looking out for your own self-interest but selflessly being a good townie. Seems like posturing.

The more scum talk, you can actually divine info from them if they try the latter.

Maybe. I still think it's more like they'd clam up and say nothing.

VOTE: mastina

Fuck it. Siding with my townreads.

You clearly struggled long and hard with this

[Montosh]

mastina is town, you peanuts.

wrong. pls give reasons why mastina is town instead of posting stuff like this

Can you talk more about your reads? Or anything?

[Montosh]

but Mont, don't you think a scum Titus would be a little more careful with her language?

Not necessarily. They'll do whatever doesn't scream scum.

Mont, my time is growing more limited. So yeah I jumped faster.

That's fair.

[Montosh]

Good point

[Montosh]

On my phone but

VOTE: NMSA

Since Titus isn't happening it looks like.

The mastina wagon is just too scummy for my taste.

[Montosh]

The mastina wagon is just too scummy for my taste.

how so?

A lot of my scumreads are on it.

A lot of people seem to have concerns about mastina so it's a slot that probably needs to be evaluated at some point. But I don't really like this wagon.

[Montosh]

I mean, I'd be down for LUV but I still think Mastina is scum so...

I could probably compromise on LUV

[Montosh]

Mmmmm.....respectful disagree, I really think theres any number of other low activity/low charisma players here to get set up for a mislynch aside from NMSA if they're scum. They really just fit the bill for being scums designated mislynch if mastina == scum

This is a persuasive point. I am starting to wonder about NMSA's so blatant lurkiness and if my natural aversion to lurkers is biasing me. Still not scumreading mastina though.

I'm NOT going to vote outside of ConManMick/Lil Uzi Vert/Creature today. Just a FYI

Oh, so you want a nolynch then?

Just reiterating this. A50 there are two wagons that have a legit chance of being lynched right now. Less than 2 days before the deadline is not the time to declare your interest in voting others.

[Montosh]

Lol proudly lynchbait right here. I don't like some of Titus's recent posts.

Why are you lurking? If you're town and scumread mastina as you say you do, why are you not overly concerned by this?

[Montosh]

Both wagons are probably town I'm starting to feel. But between the two I'll vote for the mega lurker whose wagon doesn't contain my biggest scumread.

[Montosh]

The crazy blatant lurking. It's hard for me to believe scum would do that with a wagon on them at this point.

[Montosh]

Both wagons are probably town I'm starting to feel.

Alternatives?

Titus or LUV, personally

[Montosh]

Well alright

[Montosh]

Well alright

Does it feel better now that you don't have to straddle that fence?

Actually yes. I'm quite sore.

LUV tomorrow regardless of flip.

Pretty much on board with this

[Montosh]

**Montosh has been killed night one.**

[Montosh]

Well that sucks

[Montosh]

Also yeah scum had a good shot at a win I think. I think Omochao or Elbirn probably would have gone today.

[Montosh]

Thank you for modding Ank! Sorry it had to end prematurely