Mini 588: Achewood Mafia - Game Over!

[lulu muumuu]

hi guys i have some ideas but i want to read through again, i haven't gotten my role... PMing again.

[lulu muumuu]

okay got my role but i have a final to take right now. I'll read again and post tonight. wish me luck, yo!

[lulu muumuu]

okay, here's what i think. i think it's really interesting that mush and mal have suddenly gone quiet now that OG looks like an easy kill. they put in their votes and look a little too content to sit back and let someone get lynched.

right now OG is L-2. for the record, mal is still voting for lemmings because of not unvoting. otherwise OG would be L-1.

i find this interesting. is it a scumtell on mal's part? or is it an honest mistake? either way, i don't like what's going on, i think we need to be more careful.

i also think this is interesting:

also

unvote vote alabaska j

replaced demonking who is scum

okay, so you are saying your original demonking vote was random. this up here shows me it wasn't random. that concerns me.

i don't want to vote OG.

[lulu muumuu]

so OG. why haven't you unvoted? again, this is my concern. not attacking, just saying.

still not voting for you. do we really need a claim?
i have to put on the table though that if i'm wrong about you, you're going down hard.

for now i would rather

vote: malthusius

[lulu muumuu]

OG: i'm not saying you SHOULD unvote. just pointing out that you aren't.

[lulu muumuu]

so PBuG what are your reasons for not voting mal? do you just find OG more scummy?

Populartajo: where would you put your vote now?

where are greasy spot, dragons, and captain cake??????

and are you others just content to sit back?

i don't really want to change my vote at the moment. i think mal is scummy. i don't like his third vote with the reasoning that:

I'm pretty sick right now of Og argueing with people as well as the fact we have proof for all the thinks he's done so I'm go ahead and Vote :OG since he hasn't even given us a defence, he's just trying to steer around our questions

i think PBuG is town. i don't know about lemming but i'm leaning towards him being scum too. right now, i think either OG

or

alabaska is scum, or OG

and

alabaska are scum together.

i must admit that right now, a lot of my thinking is based in the fact that OGs feelings that alabaska is scummy are correct. OG if you are really saying your vote WAS random i might be more inclined to vote for you.

[lulu muumuu]

sorry OG you're not helping your cause by changing your vote... this makes me even more suspicious of you, but i hope that maybe it's still just scum going after the easy lynch.

[lulu muumuu]

i would hammah mal if i wasn't already voting him... i'll have to be content that he's L-1 right now.

care to defend, mal?

[lulu muumuu]

i think he's taken advantage of the OG bandwagon. i wrote above in a post how i thought his third vote on the OG bandwagon was really suspicious especially because it was for a really crappy reason. OG was a really easy target considering her unorthodox style of play and how quickly other players were to vote her. I don't like that mal disappeared when OG looked like a sure thing or that he hasn't really made any new contributions to the argument now that the pressure is off of her.

[lulu muumuu]

also maybe a prod to greasy... he hasn't been active in this thread since last tuesday but is active in other threads

[lulu muumuu]

This was populartajo's last vote:

Vote : Lemming.
Just for being so vocal at the beginning against PbuG and OG, then is suddenly quiet.
And just a question, @PbuG: what do you think of Lemming right now?

I seriously dislike bandwagons, whats so wrong with that?

a bandwagon is only bandwagon if it looks like a quicklynch with no reasoning behind it.
not to mention that you shouldn't vote unless you've got good reasoning. i find it strange that you're voting for lemming and then asking for PBuG's opinion on lemming

[lulu muumuu]

UGH, sorry i should have previewed...
EBWOP:

---

This was populartajo's last vote:

Vote : Lemming.
Just for being so vocal at the beginning against PbuG and OG, then is suddenly quiet.
And just a question, @PbuG: what do you think of Lemming right now?

I seriously dislike bandwagons, whats so wrong with that?

a bandwagon is only bandwagon if it looks like a quicklynch with no reasoning behind it.
not to mention that you shouldn't vote unless you've got good reasoning. i find it strange that you're voting for lemming and then asking for PBuG's opinion on lemming

[lulu muumuu]

PBuG: i wasn't questioning your thoughts on Lemming, I was wondering why populartajo voted for Lemming and THEN wants to know your reasons for suspecting him.

[lulu muumuu]

Can I vote again? Seriously. Attention shifts to Lemming, malthusis votes.

can we

prod greasy spot

and

prod dragons of summer

who have been active in other threads but not this one?
dragons, you said you'd have something to say on wednesday, you haven't really contributed anything since may 5th

i'm worried that these two may be flying under the radar while we argue amongst ourselves, vote stays though
mal is L-2, lemming is L-4

[lulu muumuu]

i think

5

is philippe's AGE.

this kind of bothers me. if OGs role is to see whether or not people are drinkers at the bar (and therefore townies) this doesn't make much sense. Philippe was a townie and 5. maybe i'm taking the theme too much into account.

actually, i'm

more

bothered by the fact that OG investigated alabaska j. i guess we know now that she didn't have a cop head start but still decided to build a case around a non fact.

sorry, at this point you've lost my confidence and i'm willing to take the chance if i'm wrong

vote: OG Smokedank

if i'm not mistaken it's 6 to lynch, OG is L-4

to alabaska: i'm pretty sure it's not necessary to have a mafia roleblocker for balance. you can try looking through minis that have ended to see, but if someone else has better info please enlighten us.

[lulu muumuu]

sorry to disappoint, but i didn't "fuck up". yes, philippe was a townie. and if i'm right about the 5 referring to his age (philippe IS 5 in the comic) then it seems funny to me because:

drinkers are townies, people from the town that go in the bar a lot. i'm guessing scum is outoftowners but i dont know achewood flavor

if i understand correctly, the bar is underground. philippe is a stuffed animal. what i'm trying to say is it seems strange to me because if OG hypothetically were to have investigated pbug, would OG find philippe (5, stuffed animal) "drinking" in the underground bar? do you understand what i'm saying? yes, maybe i'm looking into the theme too much but it bothers me.

and i'd like to say i'm really annoyed because OG basically breadcrumbed that she was a cop from the beginning by going after alabaska (previously demonking) so aggressively; that's why i didn't vote her. but to know OG NEVER had any proof until now? that makes me mad and uncomfortable. we could have lynched someone that was innocent yesterday with horrible reasoning.

it concerns me that the goons wouldn't at least try to kill OG. instead they go for the player everyone felt was a townie. why would scum let a cop go running around when we've already killed one of them?

that said,

unvote, vote: alabaska

because OG is right, if OG is lying then she dies tomorrow and she's finally out of the game, and if not then we're one step closer to winning and i can get out of this game and away from players (read: A player) that are rude and all together unpleasant to play with.
are you even capable of not being offensive?

[lulu muumuu]

EBWOP:

what does

and if i had died night 1, nobody would be moving against alabaska now because theyd be smart enough to know i didnt get a headstart

even mean?

it sounds like you are saying that no one would suspect him because there's NO EVIDENCE against him. you're admitting your evidence against him was weak and you were trying to rally a lynch on a hunch.

it seems to me that if you'd really believed yesterday that he was scum you'd have found good enough evidence to convince us so that even if you died (heck, even anticipating that you'd die) we'd go for the right guy

[lulu muumuu]

I hope lulu mummu is indeed too bothered by the flavor because I dont like how he seems to defend Alabaska.

yes, i'm bothered by flavor, and if you read my posts, i've NEVER taken alabaska off my possible scum list. if you read my posts, i ALWAYS thought OG was a cop, and again, YES i am mad that she would push so hard on a hunch with no evidence.

look at it this way: i have thought OG was a cop since i got here. i wouldn't have stuck to my guns if i didn't believe so (i never voted OG, only mal). i thought so because she was so SURE that alabaska was scum. i personally didn't see what evidence she had against alabaska, and apparently neither did anyone else (everyone thought the OG wagon was a good place to be right?), so i was taking on faith and my own hunch that she had inside information.

so now when i find out it was ONLY a hunch and she might have led us into a lynch on someone who could POSSIBLY be a townie (SHE HAD NO INFO ON ALABASKA AT THE TIME), i feel (justifiably IMO) upset.

me thinking she's a cop and being wrong is vastly different from her claiming to be a cop and pushing a lynch on someone and being wrong. not only does that jeopardize the town, but it also jeopardizes her dependability if she really is a cop. someone please tell me you at least understand. [/rant]

it would be really smart to stop looking at me as scum so i'm going to squash that now.
also, i'm a girl.

[lulu muumuu]

While I know the odds would favor my lynch, I really dislike lynching townies for no reason, so can we please avoid this? We can get rid of OG today, lulu.

it wouldn't be a lynch for no reason. there is totally a reason: to prove or disprove OG.

[lulu muumuu]

well f**k me.

[lulu muumuu]

EBWOP:

oh, and

unvote

[lulu muumuu]

here's the link to achewood on wikipedia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achewood

there's no section on todd. it does say that philippe is perpetually 5 and lives in the house, while ray (and most of the other main characters) live underground. cornelius is, in fact, the bar owner, and chris onstead is the creator.

i haven't read the comic myself, so i don't know whether todd or philippe drinks, and it's very long, there would be something like seven and a half years worth of comic to read.

so i'm weirded out that PBug got investigated. he's probably the most experienced of us here and i suppose he'd be worth investigating, but it just seems funny that he's also the one that most seemed to get a town feeling on. very convenient indeed.

i'm trying to think of who would be the best lynch for today-- whose lynch will give us the most information.
i still think lynching alabaska is one of our better options over a possible cop. i don't think there would be two cops, and since we know OG got guilty on alabaska, no matter what he comes up as, we know who to lynch next.

[lulu muumuu]

I pretty much 100% believe that DoS is telling the truth with his claim.
The only reason for scum to out themselves like would be that his buddy (Alabaska, in this case) was nailed by the real cop, and it would obviously be stupid for DoS reveal himself out of nowhere in that situation.....

Based on that, either OG is lying or there's some kind of twist with the investigative roles. The flavour of OG's claim looks pretty believable to me, so I'm thinking it's probably the latter. The drinking/non-drinking thing looks more like a tool to verify whether someone is claiming their flavour truthfully, rather than a way of finding alignment directly. It's also possible that DoS is insane/paranoid/naive. I can't see that they could both be giving us accurate results on players' alignments, unless the scum have some big power that balances it out.

so you're saying you think they both have investigative (cop) roles? or that they have twisted informational roles?

Here is the problem with the end of the day that I missed because I was extremely busy. My role name actually is COP....
I feel like I should full claim since I'm counter claiming. I am Chris Onstead. The guy who created Achewood. I just want to find and root out the mafia infesting my masterpiece.

i'm cornelius the bartender, my role is basically cop, every night i get to see if someone is a drinker there or not. maybe now some of you will be forced to look at more than one player this entire game.

my problem with that is they're both saying they're cops. DoS has role claimed chris onstead COP, and OG has role claimed cornelius, COP and called herself cop throughout. if she thought she was some other kind of info role i don't think she'd call herself "cop", and ditto with DoS.
also, it seems funny for them both to be there because flavor-wise they aren't really roles that could "go together". cornelius is a character in the comic, and chris onstead-- isnt.

I need to read back a bit to see who is a good lynch for today. Current thought: given that the town is in a good position numbers-wise, we could probably bear to lynch Alabaska J today to test OG's result, then look at OG and DoS's results tomorrow and try to figure things out from there.

i don't think there could be two cops in this game. maybe two informational roles, but these two have claimed "cop". maybe it's more overanalysis on my part, but it doesn't seem right.
IMO, alabaska is the best lynch today, and depending on the results, we can go after DoS or OG the next day. i feel one of them must be lying.

[lulu muumuu]

you mean you don't drink or it doesn't specify in your PM? mine doesn't specify, but i'm pretty sure i do/would (based on the comic).

[lulu muumuu]

Lulu you know you drink in the bar but not for your PM, right?

so we're clear, i know i frequent the bar in the comic, and i also know that i drink in the comic, but my role pm doesn't mention drinking all.

Then why is Alabaska the only one who has it specified in his role PM?

not only that, why then does Cipher's role specifically say he doesn't?

the whole thing is very strange to me.

[lulu muumuu]

The way to find this out for sure is to investigate me tonight, as my role pm implies that I drink. If you find that I don't drink, than we can assume that you are paranoid, and if you find that I do drink, then we will need to do some more thinking.

are you kidding me? how are we supposed to confirm that?? based on your merit?

the only way for us to know anything for sure is to get a confirmed result on someone, which means lynching someone that's already been "investigated"

@alabaska if you're town, don't forget town wins when all threats to the town have been defeated, even if that means you get sacrificed.

this way we find out who's lying, or who's wrong about their role. if you are an insane cop, "insane" is not going to be part of your role pm. if you're a tracker, i would hope it says "tracker" in your role PM and not "cop".

why is this hard? can't remember if i was voting anyone but

unvote, vote Alabaska J

[lulu muumuu]

Only town could know it tells you in role pm, any1 else think this means populartajo is scum because he didnt know?

or musher is scum since he is assuming drinking is in mentioned in everyone's pm.

[lulu muumuu]

Also, seeing as we have a REAL cop (and probably a doc somewhere too) I'm sure we can get our cop to investigate me tonight and live so that we don't lynch a townie for no reason, lulu.

why do you guys think this is a good idea? if this is your big plan, how are we supposed to confirm that our cop is telling the truth without alabaska dead?

ANYONE could be lying. the only way to know who is telling the truth is for someone to die so we get confirmation of their alignment.

so tell you what, whomever you decide to investigate, doc needs to protect the cop, and then the investigatee MUST DIE the next day. of course this could backfire too, as mafia already knows everyone's alignment.

[lulu muumuu]

so who do you suggest we lynch today?

[lulu muumuu]

i don't like this plan. if alabaska gets lynched we can't investigate him tonight

[lulu muumuu]

My plan is based in the fact that one of Alabaska and OG is lying.

i agree PT, it's OG or alabaska, but like mustafa i'm uncomfortable lynching a claimed power role (even if it turns out to be a weak power).
however, i've been wary since the beginning of this day and i've kept OG under suspicion:
1) because of my reasons way back when, and
2) because her power of seeing who is in the bar (plus knowing that drinking isn't mentioned in everyone's role) seems inconsistent.

the more i think about it, the more confused i get because maybe OG only sees if someone has a night action, making alabaska town. but then why would he lie about being a drinker? i just don't know and that's why my vote stays for now.

[lulu muumuu]

i've been in a hobbit themed mafia where i was gollum, effectively an SK, and i had the ring, so I had the ability to hide or kill someone. i tried to claim a bull**** role to avoid getting killed and i got pegged for it. i'd say that whole game stayed pretty much true to theme.

just covering all bases: what if mafia are are not SEEN in the bar and everyone else is?
also, what if alabaska is a godfather? an investigation would come up innocent.

[lulu muumuu]

thinktank mentioned there might be a godfather which seems very suspicious to me because:

anyway i just want to say i fucking called it. post 145 go read it and see how awesome i am

Extended bah: OG did in fact call three scum in one post. Damn.

i'd say this pretty much means all that's left is an SK, not to mention i think at this point scum would not kill themselves for the sake of being clever (if there were a 4 scum team)

i agree with OG that whomever is SK probably thought cipher/lemming was innocent, since it would be in the SKs best interest to keep a scum group around.
i also think that the SK was either clever enough to hold a kill night one, absent enough to not get a choice in, or else the SK was roleblocked by cipher/lemming.
this makes it seem very possible that the SK thought lemming was town but lemming suspected the SK, thus the SKs night choice N2 (and possibly lemming's choice N1).

time to reread!

[lulu muumuu]

if we're going to do it, let's make sure everyone is on board and do it right away before scum has a chance to make up a claim.

i'm okay claiming.

[lulu muumuu]

i think i must have read his post and read it as "...called all 3 scum..." my bad guys =(

that being said, i still think it is more likely there are 2 anti-town groups rather than a 4 scum team because if there are only 2 left on the team, i don't think you'd want to kill a teammate for the sake of possibly clearing the remaining scumbuddy. so in my mind, either there were two mafia on opposite teams, or we have a remaining SK.

if it was a mafia group (let's call them mafia group A), they could have killed cipher/lemming because they thought he was in mafia B, a SK, or town. if mafia A thought C/L was in mafia B (or town), i could see mafia group A being vocal about it.

if it was an SK that killed C/L, it's still possible that the SK wanted to kill cipher/lemming because the SK thought he was town.

also:

i also think that the SK was either clever enough to hold a kill night one, absent enough to not get a choice in, or else the SK was roleblocked by cipher/lemming.
this makes it seem very possible that the SK thought lemming was town but lemming suspected the SK, thus the SKs night choice N2 (and possibly lemming's choice N1).

what i meant to say was:

i also think that the SK was either clever enough to hold a kill night one, absent enough to not get a choice in, or else the SK was roleblocked by

alabaska j N1

.
this makes it seem very possible that the SK thought lemming was town but lemming suspected the SK, thus the SKs night choice N2

i guess this also holds true if it's a second mafia.

i'm thinking we need to go back to D2 and see who alabaska mentioned roleblocking.

[lulu muumuu]

i'm molly sanders, vanilla townie.

[lulu muumuu]

okay... check this out guys-- now if you go back and read, when OG claimed "cop" able to see if someone drinks or not, MAFIA scrambled to say they drink or don't drink. many townspeople (or at least who i am assuming are townspeople) say it's mentioned (but offhandedly to the point where they didn't think it was important) or not even mentioned at all.

why would there be a flavor cop around whose results can't accurately indicate alignment?
also:

vote alabaska j

guess who doesnt drink!

vote OG Smokedank

because the real cop would have been roleblocked! And I strongly believe the mafia has a roleblocker if we have a cop (balance reasons). If anyone can give information that can refute my theory, I will immediately recede my vote, but until then, nice fakeclaim, buddy!

hahaha listen to this scum telling us what scum should have or would have done.

Actually, it is the only reason I can think of why a "Cop" would post a guilty result on a townie. Unless you are dumb enough to be roleblocked and post anyway…

hmmmm mafia certainly DID have a roleblocker (alabaska)!
and i think it's pretty obvious that alabaska was trying to tell us who he tried to roleblock.
show of hands: who else thinks alabaska tried to role block OG N1?
*raises hand*

by that logic, does that mean that OG is our SK and that's why we had only one kill that night?

vote: OG Smokedank

[lulu muumuu]

Its plausible i suppose but at the same time if we have a doctor they could have protected her and the SK was stupid enough to try and kill the person who was most likely to be protected due to a unchallenged claim.

who do you think that protected person was? and so far we have no claimed doc. unless emeril (thinktank) or teodor (greasy spot) is our doc, as everyone else has claimed vanilla townie.

i still think alabaska was trying to tell us he'd blocked OG. alabaska had a good reason to want to try and block OG, and i feel it's a lot less likely OG and the doc targeted the same person.

[lulu muumuu]

@musher: i get what you're saying now about SK trying to kill OG and doc protecting OG.

The doctor would be foolish to claim right now, because then he/she would be killed by the mafia while protecting OG.

Would it be possible that both the sk and the mafia both tried to kill the same person the first night? Or would they like, cancel eachother out or something? I think that this is pretty likely because PBuG was a pretty logical choice to kill.

I seriously doubt that OG is scum becuase nobody has counter-claimed the role of Cornelius and Cornelius wouldn't be scum.

i agree that it usually isn't a good idea for doc to reveal but we have a chance to get the SK. if the doc thinks he has info that will help lynch the SK today, revealing will not be a bad thing.

i also agree that it could be possible that both groups tried to kill pbug. normally i would probably defer to this reasoning, or the reasoning that SK forgot to send in a choice, or that doc protected the SK kill.

but here is my reasoning: after going back to the beginning of day two, IMO it seems like alabaska tried to block someone, and in re-reading it looks like he tried to block OG. the whole OG/alabaska thing day 2 was weird to me; i thought his post 232 was really strange, and also led me to believe he was scum, since it sounded like he had extra information on the setup (so did a few others of you if i recall correctly). at first it just seemed like alabaska was trying to get OG lynched by

insinuating

that mafia had a roleblocker that had targeted OG, and alabaska was now calling her bluff. when he died we found out HE was the mafia roleblocker, and after all that, it makes me think he was trying to hint that OG was his roleblock target N1. this makes the most sense (to me) as to why we were missing a kill that night.

i also agree that cornelius would most likely not be scum, but i've seen it before, and it is possible that the mod included claimable roles and left out more important characters for this purpose. additionally, my role PM states simply that i am a townie, but the rest leads me to believe i am a

vanilla

townie.

the argument right now on thinktank is that his claim sucks based on the fact that his character is a minor one. emeril is another cat character and actually has his own blog on trashspotting. you also forget (if PT isn't lying) that philippe's mom, also a minor character and one

without

a blog, is in the game. actually, of all the roles claimed, i would think that mustafa (tina) would be the most likely scum based solely on flavor. not defending thinktank, just saying.

what i dislike is OGs vote with absolutely no new insight.

[lulu muumuu]

my argument is going to get a little meta here... i know if i were given an anti-town role, the best strategy to take would be to play really pro-town-- track down scum, give good arguments, play

as town

.
and really, a SK has every reason to act pro-town, as their win condition necessitates that mafia are dead too. i mean, i guess you could play and get townies lynched left and right, since i think if the SK is left with just mafia, the SK wins (but i'm not sure); however, this obviously isn't the SK's best strategy and is likely to get one lynched really quickly.

as for alabaska-- the reason i voted for him was because his drinking claim directly contradicted OGs "result" on him. someone had to be lying. however, the reason i suspected him in the first place was his mention of the roleblocker. IMO, at that point in time he would have no reason to offer that information other than to suggest that there was a roleblocker that had targeted OG and thus, she had to be lying about him being scum. he was really really gunning for an OG lynch and probably figured that bit of information would get her voted. in other words, i feel like alabaska wasn't saying "she's still trying to go after me even though she could have been roleblocked", so much as he was trying to say "i roleblocked her, there's no way she could have gotten any result".

i also think it's fishy that people's drinking habits are ambiguous in role PMs. cipher even came to the conclusion (though he was mafia, but i think most of you agree) that whether someone drinks or not is most likely not connected to alignment. i would just think that it would be more concrete, like, if you're investigating as a cop, you'd learn guilty or innocent, and role PMs would reflect that plainly. plus i think way back, OGs explanation of her role was that she was a cop that got to see who drank at cornelius' pub because drinking = town. based on that, i would think todd and pat would not be mafia (todd gets drunk and crashes his mini-van) and philippe would (i haven't seen him drink yet, though i think he gets high on... something). i also feel like OG has

let us

come to the conclusion that she is a flavor cop

is baseless wifom, with evidence that suggests scum dont have fakeclaims. so the evidence doesnt even support that wifom point.

what evidence does OG have that the mod

didn't

include fakeclaims?
i think it is entirely possible, even appropriate that a mod would include fakeclaims to keep the game from being broken, especially in a game where a lot of characters are easily distinguished as "good" or "bad". in any case, why should we believe any of OGs investigations when they have been of no use to us? she could easily say someone "drinks" and no one would be able to contest it.

if i'm wrong, i'm wrong, but no one has given me PROOF that i'm wrong, on any of my points.

[lulu muumuu]

well fuck it and fuck this game. i'm cornelius the bartender, my role is basically cop, every night i get to see if someone is a drinker there or not. maybe now some of you will be forced to look at more than one player this entire game.

but what does being a drinker have to do with being scum?

drinkers are townies, people from the town that go in the bar a lot. i'm guessing scum is outoftowners but i dont know achewood flavor

we're actually saying the same thing. you are saying you are a cop. drinkers=town. you've never gone back on that. what i'm saying is that your results and people's role claims don't seem to match up with your "cop" abilities. and i wasn't trying to say that you told us you're a flavor cop, but i know that's what i think you are now (don't know about anyone else). i think the chances are really slim there're two sane/real cops in a mini and DoS is our confirmed, sane cop.

also, i'm not saying alabaska was trying to help the town out, i'm saying he was trying to get you lynched. he was trying to imply the roleblock and stuck head out too far. and yeah, his drinking claim contradicted yours so someone had to die. it doesn't mean you're not lying. and just because alabaska couldn't come up with a decent fakeclaim doesn't mean you couldn't have gotten one.

and please, get away with what shit? i am being humble, mr. "fuck you, you're a fucking idiot for fucking thinking that you fucking fuck". calling people names and making personal attacks doesn't help your cause.

do you even have a better choice for a lynch or are you just going to agree with everyone else about thinktank

with no new insight

[lulu muumuu]

personally i think it's been luck. OG said she checked alabaska N1 because she was already suspicious of him. she said she checked DoS because he was a cop, but it would be easy to say, after the fact, that she was right about him.

not to mention she gave her DoS investigation the day after the nightkill. if she were to have investigated someone N1 given us the result, and then they were killed, they could be confirmed investigations, but you can't really confirm an investigation if the result is given after their alignment's been revealed.

i think this is especially true with a second cop. i just don't see a second cop in a game this small. 3 mafia, a SK, a cop, a doc is balanced because the SK works for and against both sides. two cops just seems unbalanced to me. i really only mentioned two scum groups for sake of covering all bases; i really only think there is a SK left.

[lulu muumuu]

if OG is the SK she hasn't died because we haven't lynched her yet. if she isn't, it's because the SK knows people suspect her.

i'm concerned that Greasy Spot hammered thinktank and was joking about hammering alabaska (he was the second to last vote). This lynch i want some real input. the rest of us have at least 2 pages worth of posts.

my suspicions are still heaviest on OG because of my previous day's arguments, but i want to hear more from greasy and musher. if we lynch wrong today, tomorrow we're in lylo.

[lulu muumuu]

let's try this again, i think right now we need to be upfront about all our info--

full

roleclaims. if we have a doc out there i think now is a good time to reveal.

lulu-- molly sanders, vanilla townie

[lulu muumuu]

I'm Teador - townie

whats your role? "townie" isnt helpful at all. are you vanilla or what.

agreed. this is

exactly

what he claimed last time.

as for why PT is questioning OG's choice of investigation target, for OG, whether she's SK or not, i'm thinking it's because OG is my #1 suspect. for everyone else, i think it's because populartajo claims his character is one of the more obscure ones in the comic, and maybe more worthy of an investigation. i would expect musher's claim of roast beef and greasy's claim of teodor to be in the game, considering they're main characters.

[lulu muumuu]

my PM doesn't specify that i drink but from reading the comic and her blog i'm pretty sure she does.

so to update
lulu - molly sanders, vanilla townie
populartajo - philippe's mother, vanilla townie
greasy spot - teodor, ?????????

[lulu muumuu]

or he's the doctor. that's why we need full claims. i'm still really bothered by alabaska's whole roleblocker thing day 2. if it turns out we had a doctor protect someone that would clear that whole thing up.

[lulu muumuu]

actually, i went back to scan posts and it looks as though musher's last vote in this game was for OG. on

DAY 1

. He's never had a suspect list, and wasn't voting anyone when night 1 fell. he hasn't been on any bandwagons except for OGs and his justification for his vote was mostly that OG was joking and being offensive. he hasn't voted anyone since. he also seems to tag along onto other people's arguments. he went missing in this game but posted in others when night fell, could it be that he's the SK and missed night 1?

musher do you have something to add?
greasy are you going to claim fully?

i still think night 1 was strange. was there a roleblock, protection, or laziness?

we should try and do it right today.

[lulu muumuu]

greasy, i think it's time for you to make an appearance.

[lulu muumuu]

EBWOP to add:

and not that beef isn't in the game, but he wouldn't have to be vanilla. he could be a doc, or a vig, or an SK...

[lulu muumuu]

arg i still want to lynch OG. someone tell me why it's a bad idea

[lulu muumuu]

i still maintain that you can't be a confirmed sane investigative role unless:

1. you have investigated someone that hasn't yet claimed
2. you then tell people your result (implicitly or explicitly)
3. that person dies and the investigation is correct

in that order

Especially

if there are TWO claimed cop roles. i don't really count myself as being "confirmed". i claimed a long time ago and half the town probably figured me for townie.

you've

said you thought so yourself on more than one occasion.

and it's not really that i wouldn't go for a musher or greasy lynch, it's just that my suspicions lean more towards OG.

if no one claims doc (and no one has) that still means a kill was either blocked or missed (SK wasn't active) which points me to either OG or musher (respectively)

if there is a doc in this game it is highly in town's favor for you to reveal today so that we can clear up that situation. in any case if we don't lynch right today we are in lylo tomorrow and it won't matter that you are a doctor. the

whole town

wins if the SK dies.

[lulu muumuu]

And I dont see how a claimed doc can change things, do you?

i still think OG is the SK. i think alabaska roleblocked SK preventing the night kill. and that's why alabaska thought OG was lying about having gotten a result on him.

either the SK was roleblocked or lazy that night, or someone was protected. i ruled out us having a vigilante because if it was the vigilante that made the second kill, the game would be over.

i've been thinking about it and i know i've had tunnel vision lately, but the only other reason we might have only had one kill is it's possible when PBug was killed the SK and mafia both targeted him and mod didn't want to give away a "second kill". mod was

ashamed

of us.

it would be really helpful, at least to me, to know that if there was a doc that protected someone, that's the reason we had only one kill that night. the fact that we know we have an SK and there was only one kill that night bothers me. if we know who the doc protected maybe we can figure out who the SK is.

i've stated my reasons for a musher or greasy lynch, but what are yours?

[lulu muumuu]

The thing is that the SK assumes there is a doc, thats why they didnt kill OG, therefore Im more suspicious of Musher that commented with lulu the existence of a doctor.
Lulu tell me how you plan to win with a doc claim. I still dont see it.

why couldn't the OG be the SK, and that's why she didn't die? she can't be a confirmed cop anymore until she dies.

so my request for a doc claim goes back to night 1 when there was only one night kill, but two anti-town groups. here are my reasons for the one kill

reason 1: SK and mafia targeted the same person
info that would eliminate this option: confirmed protection/roleblock
supporting facts: two anti-town groups, only one nightkill

reason 2: lazy mafia or lazy SK
info that would eliminate this option: confirmed protection/roleblock
supporting facts: two anti-town groups, only one nightkill

reason 3: doc protected either the mafia or SK target
supporting facts: two anti-town groups, only one nightkill
info that would eliminate this option: knowledge of no doc in the game
evidence still needed: a doc, confirmed protection

reason 4: roleblocker targeted the SK
supporting facts: two anti-town groups, only one nightkill.

a confirmed roleblocker

info that would eliminate this option:
evidence still needed: confirmed roleblock on the SK or mafia (which we can't actually get unless the SK wants to offer that info)

no one yet has claimed doc. and therefore i can't count option three as a possibility.
with the info we have now, the most likely reasons for one kill are 1,2, and 4, and i'm leaning towards 4, that the roleblocker targeted the SK. we know there was a roleblocker in play at the time (alabaska J).
additionally-- OG, the claimed cop didn't die, and alabaska J hinted at having roleblocked OG.
if a doc shows up, then of course we'd have to rule that option in too and i'd have to rethink my theory on OG.

doesn't anyone else find that night suspicious? or alabaska and OGs exchange the next day?

[lulu muumuu]

i hope you get the insurance money, OG.

PT are you still unconvinced?

[lulu muumuu]

yes, they are contradictory. that's why if i knew there were a doc i might finally forget about trying to lynch OG.

[lulu muumuu]

so who do you think we should lynch greasy?

[lulu muumuu]

i can't shake my suspicions about OG. otherwise probably mush. i think if i realized there were an SK i'd be a bit more scared rather than congratulatory.

[lulu muumuu]

did you save someone n1? did you protect n2?

[lulu muumuu]

i see. but i thought you'd been asking about why she was still alive? do you think you saved her or do you think there was another reason for 1 kill?

[lulu muumuu]

none. i'm vanilla

[lulu muumuu]

oh my bad.

paraphrase:
i'm molly sanders; given that i'm dead and just an applebees waitress, i don't have much else to contribute other than a vanilla function. i win when only townies are left

[lulu muumuu]

ah, i'm vanilla, but i definitely have flavor, if you see the difference.

[lulu muumuu]

The way to find this out for sure is to investigate me tonight, as my role pm implies that I drink. If you find that I don't drink, than we can assume that you are paranoid, and if you find that I do drink, then we will need to do some more thinking.

are you kidding me? how are we supposed to confirm that?? based on your merit?

the only way for us to know anything for sure is to get a confirmed result on someone, which means lynching someone that's already been "investigated"

@alabaska if you're town, don't forget town wins when all threats to the town have been defeated, even if that means you get sacrificed.

this way we find out who's lying, or who's wrong about their role. if you are an insane cop, "insane" is not going to be part of your role pm. if you're a tracker, i would hope it says "tracker" in your role PM and not "cop".

why is this hard? can't remember if i was voting anyone but

unvote, vote Alabaska J

Then just a few posts later

I would say that we are doing a lot of guessing without any real action. Sorry Alabaska, but lynching you will give us a lot for information, so I'm going to

vote Alabaska J

. It's possible that you are townie, I'm not as sure as I would like to be, but if you are scum then we have a confirmed cop, and if not then we are... stuck... Also, if DoS could investigate Alabaska tonight, then we would get some more info. Does this plan sound good to you guys?

and lulu responds

i don't like this plan. if alabaska gets lynched we can't investigate him tonight

Currently doing a reread and saw this which is vote worthy for now.

vote: lulu muumuu

next time don't analyze solely by reading "view all posts by" because you obviously took that out of context.

[lulu muumuu]

EBWOP

in case you didn't get it, i was all for an alabaska lynch that day when mustafa said we should investigate alabaska that night. hence my "distaste" for the plan of investigating alabaska

the night after his lynch

.

@PT you really bought that?

[lulu muumuu]

why don't you just ask the mod?

[lulu muumuu]

btw dont get me wrong, you should for sure protect me

are you implying that you think the game will continue with a musher lynch?

bah

vote musher

[lulu muumuu]

OG, i wasn't suspicious of you because of your poor language, i was suspicious because of alabaska's result. i have NO problem with your language, but the second you start calling other

people

dumb, stupid, and idiotic, that's when you cross the line in my book.