Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[Adorable]

It's been a while since I last played a game here. I hope Elements is not scum again and I remember scum Elements was asking questions just like he's doing here.

[Adorable]

VOTE: Elbirn

I don't like how Elbirn votes without providing a reason and this is very frowned upon.

[Adorable]

Has anyone played with TL before? Is this par for the course?

I have played with TL before. He was town and he seems to be playing the same like he is playing as town.

[Adorable]

Masons are always town aligned from what I remember and that's why I was town reading Mastina for being in a mason chat with me and it turns out everyone has a mason chat. At first I was thinking Korina was an independent who could pair up players and put them in a mason chat and then I had to look up the Flagbearer role because I was not familiar with it and it said it is mafia aligned. Scum claiming Flagbearer on day 1 is pretty ballsy and scum would want to avoid those kind of suspicious claims they make on day 1.

[Adorable]

Adorable, do you have two separate PTs or just one and it's a masonry?
If it's two, then holy shit I randomly put the two masons in a neighborhood, good job me.

It's two separate pt and I thought it was supposed to be like that.

[Adorable]

I read Korina's question wrong.

[Adorable]

I had to check again and it said we are masons for the day. I did not know it was just for the day and I thought it was permanent.

[Adorable]

I'm going to have to admit I have not been checking the pt chat. Reason why was because Mastina only made 2 posts which were on page 1 and I assumed she was inactive. I checked the pt chat when Korina asked me if we were actually masons and I saw that the mason chat was just for day 1 and I saw that Mastina has been posting in the pt chat but she has not been participating on the thread. The Korina hammer happened too fast during my absent and I just came back.

[Adorable]

#210 Elements says he doesn't think scum would throw so much wifom in the game and he was talking about Korina and he didn't think Korina's role was a fake claim.
#460 He votes Korina anyways.

I am also not liking how Element's has been asking questions.

VOTE: Elements

[Adorable]

Night 1 these were pretty much my reads and thoughts when I was talking in the pt with Mastina.


On day 1 I did not like the way how Son of Shepherd and Elements played and I think one of them is scum. I'll have to take a look at them again. I'm a little bit suspicious of Elbirn and I did not like how he has been agreeing with jjh and it's like he might actually be scum who is buddying with jjh to get on his good side.

I am now null on Menalque because he scum reads jjh and then all of a sudden he says maybe jjh could be town. Menalque's play either he is town who has been scum reading jjh for pushing Korina or he is scum who says maybe jjh is town and he didn't want to get on jjh bad side.

ethos seems to be playing like his town meta. ethos saying he wanted to keep Korina alive and have him get invested by a cop looked like it was coming from a town player's point of view. jjh and TD are aggressive and scum hunting but I'm still going to keep an eye on them because they have been pushing on the wrong players. TL has been flip flopping alot and this is my second game playing with TL. My first game I played with TL, he was town and he was flip flopping alot on day 1 to the point when everyone was scum reading him for that. I think TL could be town since his play on day 1 reminded me of my first game I played with him. I'll have to iso TL again.

Espresso is null and I couldn't get a read on him.

[Adorable]

On day 1 I did not like the way how Son of Shepherd and Elements played and I think one of them is scum. I'll have to take a look at them again.

I have some news for you

lmao

also, adorable, could you tell me if you've played with eth0s before please?

and also @adorable, what about my play makes you think scum!me would be worried about getting on jjh's bad side?

I have played with ethos before.

On day 1 you were scum reading jjh, jjh started to scum read you and then your read changed on him. I still couldn't get a good read on jjh on day 1 so I thought if jjh really is town, I was thinking scum were going to buddy jjh. Your play on day 1 looked towny and then after the Korina hammer, I had to put you on the null list when I saw your read changed on jjh since I wasn't sure if you were town who actually scum read jjh or if you were scum who didn't want to get on jjh bad side for scum reading him. I have my moments when I scum read a player for a few days and it takes a while for me to change my reads.

[Adorable]

#210 Elements says he doesn't think scum would throw so much wifom in the game and he was talking about Korina and he didn't think Korina's role was a fake claim.
#460 He votes Korina anyways.

I am also not liking how Element's has been asking questions.

VOTE: Elements

This is pretty much the reason why I am scum reading Elements. He said he doesn't think scum would throw so much wifom in the game and he didn't think Korina's role was a fake claim but I still don't understand why did he vote Korina anyways after he said this about Korina. On day 1 Elements was also asking questions which is what scum do often. I have played with Elements before and he was scum when I played with him and I know how Elements plays as scum. Scum Elements was asking questions and his posts were very calm and genuine.

[Adorable]

jjh was one of those players I was skeptical on because of that back and forth he had with Korina on day 1. I started to feel a little bit better about jjh when he said Espresso vs TL looked like it was tvt and I didn't think scum would say this because normally scum would just let tvt continue to be at each others throats and they won't even bother on saying this is tvt. I'll have to look back on Elbirn's posts but I did remember his play looked suspicious on day1 when he was agreeing with jjh and it looked like he was buddying jjh. If Elbirn really is town, then I think scum would be voting Elbirn since he also looks like a mislynch bait if Elbirn really is town.

[Adorable]

Holy GOD that Jjh wagon was bad.

Scrap everything I said forever, or at least like, 90% of it.

Let's start with this. There

ARE

two scum in Elbirn-TL-EP-Mena

It seems most likely that those two are Elbirn-TL, because without any crazy VCA or so-called tinfoil theories, those two are the ones that have been acting the scummiest. I would like to see one of them dead today and will be happy to be on either one of their lynch.

Even happier to be on Elbirn's because they seem to be scum in EVERY reasonably viable world I can come up with, and a few of the pretty non-reasonable ones to boot.

Elbirn and TL have been voting each other from what I remember or did you think scum have been voting each other and switch votes to someone else?

[Adorable]

The site keeps loading and I finally managed to log in.

[Adorable]

The day ended way too fast on day 1 to the point when I get the feeling there were scum on Korina's bandwagon.

The game started out with 13 players, 2 are dead leaving 11 still alive and it takes 6 votes to lynch. Players have been talking about there being 3 scum which leaves us at 8 town still alive and 3 scum. Elements being suspected as scum could mean his scum buddies are voting elsewhere while town are voting him.

[Adorable]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

I have been scum reading Elements ever since I saw Korina's lynch and I've pretty much explained why. I was also scum reading Elbirn and I like Elbirn's recent posts and I'll give him another chance. TL's play reminds me of the newbie game I played with him when he was town and I figured that's how he plays as town. I don't know what TL's scum play is like if this is also how he plays as scum. On the beginning of day 2 I noticed Mastina voted Elements and then she switches her vote to EP. Mastina says EP, TL, and Elements are her scum reads. Since Mastina has been also been scum reading Elements, then why not vote him? Chemist has been asking questions and he hasn't been suspecting anyone and is he even scum hunting? I did notice he replaced momo who was inactive which means we know for sure Chemist is not the killer.

[Adorable]

Previewed my reads post to see Adorable is here! Hey adorbs, could you give us some thoughts on where your head is at? I would especially like to know where you stand on Elements, Elbirn, TL, mastina, and Chemist. Thanks!

Back to the reads I go.

I have been scum reading Elements ever since I saw Korina's lynch and I've pretty much explained why. I was also scum reading Elbirn and I like Elbirn's recent posts and I'll give him another chance. TL's play reminds me of the newbie game I played with him when he was town and I figured that's how he plays as town. I don't know what TL's scum play is like if this is also how he plays as scum. On the beginning of day 2 I noticed Mastina voted Elements and then she switches her vote to EP. Mastina says EP, TL, and Elements are her scum reads. Since Mastina has been also been scum reading Elements, then why not vote him? Chemist has been asking questions and he hasn't been suspecting anyone and is he even scum hunting? I did notice he replaced momo who was inactive which means we know for sure Chemist is not the killer.

Where do you lie on the "is chemist conftown" debate

Chemist is still not conftown and I'm focusing on the players who were active since day 1 and momo was inactive on day 1-night 1 and inactives don't kill at night.

[Adorable]

On post #953 Elements said he liked jjh for his tunnels which looked like he was town reading jjh on day 1. Elements said his action failed and why did he invest jjh on Night 1? If you were town reading someone, then wouldn't you want to invest one of the players you are not town reading?

[Adorable]

Elements (6): Adorable, eth0s, Elbirn, Menalque, Sujimichi, TiphaineDeath
Elbirn (2): Elements, TemporalLich
Sujimichi (2): mastina, jjh927

Not voting: Chemist1422

This is what the vote count looked like on day 2 and I find this odd TD gets killed instead of one of the first 4 voters on Elements wagon. jjh and TL defended Elements and I am now null on them. I have seen so many town players defend scum and get mislynched the next day for defending scum and I start to wonder if jjh and TL are town who thought Elements was town or if one of them is scum and today I see Chemist saying jjh is town.

[Adorable]

Elements (6): Adorable, eth0s, Elbirn, Menalque, Sujimichi, TiphaineDeath
Elbirn (2): Elements, TemporalLich
Sujimichi (2): mastina, jjh927

Not voting: Chemist1422

This is what the vote count looked like on day 2 and I find this odd TD gets killed instead of one of the first 4 voters on Elements wagon. jjh and TL defended Elements and I am now null on them. I have seen so many town players defend scum and get mislynched the next day for defending scum and I start to wonder if jjh and TL are town who thought Elements was town or if one of them is scum and today I see Chemist saying jjh is town.

Adorable can u do me a readslist pls

Menalque - 4th voter on the wagon and he wanted to lynch Elements so badly and I don't think scum would want to lynch their scum buddy so badly and I'm leaning town on this slot.
eth0s - I've said this before on day 2. On day 1 he didn't want to lynch Korina and instead he wanted Korina to get invested by a cop which looked like it was coming from a town player's point of view.
EP/Sujimichi - eth0s did not want to lynch EP on day 2 and I was assuming this slot was going to be confirmed town.
Elbirn - He was the third voter on the wagon and he would have been a good night kill since Elements also voted him which made Elbirn look town. Either Elbirn is town who was a mislynch bait for scum or he is scum who was getting bussed my Elements.
Chemist - Has been asking questions and I haven't seen him suspecting anyone and instead he said he did not want to vote Elements but Elements claim and action looked so bad.
TL and jjh - They both defended Elements and I have seen alot of town defend scum and get mislynched for defending scum. Once in a while I will see scum defend their scum buddy but not often and both of those slots it can go either way.
Mastina - She voted Elements but later she switches her vote to EP when eth0s said he did not want to lynch EP on day 2 and she still left her vote on EP when Elements was the best lynch target because his play was suspicious and his claim and action looked so bad.

I think the hidden remaining scum are somewhere in this list.

Mastina
jjh
Elbirn
TL
Chemist

It took me a while to write this.

[Adorable]

Why were you assuming that EP/suji was gonna be confirmed town adorable?

eth0s did not want to lynch EP on day 2 and I assumed EP was going to be confirmed next day. I still didn't understand what this was all about.

[Adorable]

Elements (6): Adorable, eth0s, Elbirn, Menalque, Sujimichi, TiphaineDeath
Elbirn (2): Elements, TemporalLich
Sujimichi (2): mastina, jjh927

Not voting: Chemist1422

This is what the vote count looked like on day 2 and I find this odd TD gets killed instead of one of the first 4 voters on Elements wagon. jjh and TL defended Elements and I am now null on them. I have seen so many town players defend scum and get mislynched the next day for defending scum and I start to wonder if jjh and TL are town who thought Elements was town or if one of them is scum and today I see Chemist saying jjh is town.

Adorable can u do me a readslist pls

Menalque - 4th voter on the wagon and he wanted to lynch Elements so badly and I don't think scum would want to lynch their scum buddy so badly and I'm leaning town on this slot.
eth0s - I've said this before on day 2. On day 1 he didn't want to lynch Korina and instead he wanted Korina to get invested by a cop which looked like it was coming from a town player's point of view.
EP/Sujimichi - eth0s did not want to lynch EP on day 2 and I was assuming this slot was going to be confirmed town.
Elbirn - He was the third voter on the wagon and he would have been a good night kill since Elements also voted him which made Elbirn look town. Either Elbirn is town who was a mislynch bait for scum or he is scum who was getting bussed my Elements.
Chemist - Has been asking questions and I haven't seen him suspecting anyone and instead he said he did not want to vote Elements but Elements claim and action looked so bad.
TL and jjh - They both defended Elements and I have seen alot of town defend scum and get mislynched for defending scum. Once in a while I will see scum defend their scum buddy but not often and both of those slots it can go either way.
Mastina - She voted Elements but later she switches her vote to EP when eth0s said he did not want to lynch EP on day 2 and she still left her vote on EP when Elements was the best lynch target because his play was suspicious and his claim and action looked so bad.

I think the hidden remaining scum are somewhere in this list.

Mastina
jjh
Elbirn
TL
Chemist

It took me a while to write this.

I feel like as if I have already pretty much said what I had to say over here and we just need to narrow down the suspects on this list. Chemist is confirming jjh is town and if we are to believe them, then that would leave Mastina, Elbirn, TL, and probably Suji we would need to look at or unless one of my town reads is powerwolfing which I hope is not happening.

[Adorable]

I recently woke up and I saw TL claiming Inventor and that is always a town role. From what I am reading, he gave rolecop to Chemist on N1 and he said he got motivated on N1. Since he said he gave Chemist all his inventions, then that would mean he visited chemist again on N2 and he gave Chemist protect and roleblock. The Motivator most likely town read TL on day 1 and motivated him on N1.

[Adorable]

I don't often see Inventors and every time when I see an Inventor it was always town aligned. jjh posting a mafia Inventor is my first time seeing a scum Inventor.

[Adorable]

I have been hesitant on voting TL because he claimed Inventor which is always a town role and there aren't that many players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy. Only players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy would either be Chemist or Menalque.

[Adorable]

I have been hesitant on voting TL because he claimed Inventor which is always a town role and there aren't that many players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy. Only players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy would either be Chemist or Menalque.

It's not always a town role as jjh showed in post 1749. Why do you think Menalque could be TL's scumbuddy?

Menalque has said TL looks like mislynch bait and he votes another player. I'm still not sure on TL's alignment.

[Adorable]

Some of Elbirn's posts are vulgar and I don't like the way how he is playing this day phase. My suspicion on Elbirn never went away and I'm still suspecting him no matter what TL flips. Even if TL flips mafia, I will still suspect Elbirn because this actually does look like distancing. I don't like Elbirn's interaction with TL and if anyone ever treated me like that I would have reported the player or unless the player is a scum buddy for the laughs and messing around then that does seem to make sense.

[Adorable]

I have been hesitant on voting TL because he claimed Inventor which is always a town role and there aren't that many players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy. Only players I could think of who would be TL's scum buddy would either be Chemist or Menalque.

Adorable, why did you make that first point again after acknowledging that I linked a game in which I was a scum inventor

First time I said Inventor is always town aligned and second time I added that I have been hesitant on voting TL for claiming Inventor. I don't know how common a scum Inventor is in this forum and on other mafia forums where I play Inventors were always town aligned.

[Adorable]

Can there be both a town Copscetic and town Rolecop in this setup? Rolecop is a common scum role and TL said he gave Chemist Rolecop on N1. Chemist claiming Rolecop looked way too much of a coincidence.

[Adorable]

This suji/mastina argument has basically turned into
"players play a town game the same way every game regardless of outside factors" -suji
vs
"it's impossible to fake good, towny posts as scum" -mastina

and I am almost certain one of them is scum at this point. Obviously I lean scum!Mastina over scum!Suji but it really doesn't read like a TvT argument.

In a game where there are no/less factors in it than this one I would typically consider Suji to be the scum for his position but given the context of the game and my reads right now (with an honorable mention that Mastina should know better than to imply that a scum can't "my posts are so towny" their way into deepwolfing) Mastina is probably the scum of the two.

The way I see it:
a Mastina redflip means jjh is the partner like 99% (I still think given the odds that I see here jjh should go first but I digress).
a suji redflip means... I don't really know honestly. Elbirn would probably be the partner there but I don't think Suji is getting lynched today anyway so I don't feel like efforting much there. I would imagine others probably think it implicates me and that's understandable honestly.
(other likely rope candidates today)
a TL redflip points probably to elbirn but potentially [redacted black] too. his partner is straight up chemist if a pure/not-disloyal scum inventor though. I'm still interested to know why people (mena and chemist I think) believe that I would be the scummate there btw.

I think if jjh is scum Chemist would be his scum buddy because he was the one who cleared jjh and Rolecop is a common scum role. If Elbirn is scum, my guess would probably be Menalque since I notice they haven't been voting each other and Menalque didn't believe TL's claim or it could be TL from the interaction they had which looked like scum buddies talking to each other.

[Adorable]

suji/adorbs why do you not wanna vote here? idk if that's necessarily true but bc we're low on time then if your next post isn't intent I'd like to know why

jjh I'd like a full claim from you

The sudden wagon on jjh happened when I was not online and I do feel the intent to hammer jjh and both of jjh and Elbirn's flip will be pretty telling and it should help me narrow down my suspects. I checked and we have 20 hours left.

[Adorable]

Has she not been showing strongly here? She hasn’t. If jjh flips red then imma look at that more closely, if he flips green then mastina is prob lock!town

jjh said he suspected Mastina because in his previous games he mentioned scum Mastina defended town jjh and in one of jjh's scum games he said town Mastina defended scum jjh.

[Adorable]

I scum read Elements correctly. It was pretty obvious I was the Motivator and I was starting to suspect Menalque and Elbirn. Menalque asking me who did I think motivated TL looked like he was fishing for the Motivator which made me wary and Elbirn asking who would want to motivate TL I thought he was also scum who wanted to throw shade on the Motivator.

[Adorable]

Did anyone who scumread me at any point in this game actually meta me at all?

I scum read Elements correctly. It was pretty obvious I was the Motivator and I was starting to suspect Menalque and Elbirn. Menalque asking me who did I think motivated TL looked like he was fishing for the Motivator which made me wary and Elbirn asking who would want to motivate TL I thought he was also scum who wanted to throw shade on the Motivator.

No I honestly thought no town player could have motivated TL because no one in this game townread him. I'm curious why you chose TL as your motivate target?

This was my second game playing with TL. My first game I played with him he was town who was flip flopping alot and TL was also flip flopping alot on d1 in this game and I thought he was a confused townie on d1. TL, eth0s, and Elements are the only players I have previously played with and funnily, they all turned out to be scum in this game.

[Adorable]

If we did end up mass claiming, I would have been scum reading Menalque and Elbirn for claiming Roleblockers. Menalque said he roleblocked me last night which looked like scum motivation who figured out I was the Motivator and it looked like he wanted to prevent me on motivating more players. eth0s could have easily tried to redirect the lynch to Menalque or Elbirn if he didn't get killed last night.