In post 43, bitbringer wrote:Reading is for town players
Mini Theme 2105: Assassins Mafia (Game Over!)
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unwnd Jack of All Trades
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In post 70, Shadoweh wrote:I'm not going to pay much attention to this game until like a week from now because I'm busy EiMMing
I saw "48 hour days" and freaked out for a second wondering what fresh hell Maria had recruited me forSpoiler:Stop-
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I don't know why everyone is dealing in absolutes so soon, the conversation being had just reads like two players convinced by conjecture instead of prior evidence. Pops is acting strange surely but in a position where Pop's strangeness alludes to scum she'd just be giving us more information than I gather she would want to. This is a partial meta readStop-
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In post 145, GuyInFreezer wrote:
I'm rating this 4/10.In post 143, unwnd wrote:In post 70, Shadoweh wrote:I'm not going to pay much attention to this game until like a week from now because I'm busy EiMMing
I saw "48 hour days" and freaked out for a second wondering what fresh hell Maria had recruited me forSpoiler:
Stock watermark hurt the score more than you'd think.Spoiler:Stop-
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Who is worse here in your eyes: Pops or DNSIn post 150, GuyInFreezer wrote:Like the only game I barely remember is that one scumgame of mine where Oversoul replaced in as my scumbuddy in that one mara hydra large theme and lurked the f out (as he should've done for our scumteam was basicaly destroying the game by flooding the game with pointless sematics SvS).
You've interacted w/ bothStop-
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I don't think you're entirely serious, but that seems to fit the current attitude you've had consistently
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I mean, I kinda see this game at the focal point of Pops/DNS/Pine based on sheer volume, because usually games end up where there is a singular effect that gets everyone talking or participating in scrum debates for either side. I do think however that Pops/DNS is uh more defined meanwhile you had Pine who gave an aggressive position on Tris while sort of dogging DNS and frankly if we're talking or voting any of those three It'd be Pine. His suspicions didn't read valid to me, and I thought his raise of concern to DNS to be a pretty hollow way of approval. What I mean by this is essentially you had Pine saying 'look how serious I am' and then almost weaponizing his concern against DNS for not seeing it his way. Not sure what Pine gains as town in that position, unless he's trying to scare DNS into voting Tris and he has some crackshot theory that Tris/DNS could be a thing lol
VOTE: PineStop-
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I don't believe it thoughIn post 204, tris wrote:
isn't that what 79 explicitly says?In post 202, unwnd wrote:and he has some crackshot theory that Tris/DNS could be a thing lol
Even though it technically involves you, what do you think about it?Stop-
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I don't think it's right to force content, even in a hypothetical scenario where it's [scum] that is not on top of things
Honestly? I've made the mistake before to assume town was just bored and trying to speak circular logic to one another, but then again an inactive [town] can lead to some anxious or even opportunistic scum to start pushing a narrative about the pace of the game. I'm not saying that what's happening, but RN I feel Pine has some explaining to do and I'm not ready to call this game solved with active posters very likely townStop-
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I mean, even though I said 'im not ready to call active posters all town' and then proceeded to do it, I think what's happening right now that I am willing to believe it despite a certain doubt. With pops, it's pretty much the same feeling where I feel she's spent a lot of time uh..wasting time in ways that don't seem to have an ulterior motive. If her goal as scum is to be impressively aloof in the way she presents her arguments to fool others she can just win the game at this point. I also think DNS/Pops probably isn't some SvS and maybe even SvTStop-
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From memory, nothing that stood out to be scummy but also not towny, but inoffensive in a way that I didn't think further about her posts. With Weh/Dunn their nullness could have more of an underbelly, but not enough where I'd put them any lower where they are. Abu/Suji needed a spot to be and they got below Weh/Dunn probably due to my personal bias towards Weh/Dunn seeing how I said I could expect them to have some goal towards being null lolAnd why is Lady Angel on the higher side of null?Stop-
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I'm surprised what he said about you is still affecting you honestlyIn post 344, Lady Angel wrote:Would it look worse to fail a reaction test or disengage with one altogether?Stop-
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Being non-descript and unassuming to silently push agendas without overtly stating one's intent is kinda cool if one person does it but if the whole game tries to then it becomes practically unreadable. is this intentional on your part?In post 394, bitbringer wrote:I don't believe funnstrals scumread on me. Feels fake.Stop-
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It hasn't been exactly my fight but if we're being objective he essentially went at Dunn completely unprepared and ended up looking foolish cause of it. Whether you think that's scummy or not depends on the perspective, because personally I can argue that the act of 'flailing' is not the equivalent of being rly passionate, which is something I attributed to Bit given his own words in another game. I dislike when Dunn called him out on [previously mentioned] he instantly retracted and was like 'oh I guess dunn is town'. I personally believe Bit did the equilvalence of a scum digging deeper into something to seem conscientious in ways that might make others think he isn't just looking for the next largest wagon to plop his vote on, but in turn he seemed to admit he was backed into a corner and just voted Shadoweh. His vote IMO is far too careful in this regard and his pressure seems fake because of thisRegarding the bitbringer wagon, could someone explain what they see there? To me, it seems like bitbringer has done a lot not really saying much, although I don't see anything that super jumps out as scummy.Stop-
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If this is towards me and Bit, it's scummy fakeIn post 553, popsofctown wrote:But is it scummy fake
Or are you like
Imma accept both types opinions on this as they come in
Since it's at least fake
It's kind of an unexciting line
It's more exciting to vote bit for emptyhearted townreading
I just try to see perspective because that's literally just the type of person I am lolStop-
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Because I'm not done with Sheep yetIn post 557, bitbringer wrote:
why on spirit? is it for optics because u seem overtly concerned about opticsIn post 552, unwnd wrote:My vote is on Bitbringer in spirit, if someone can point to what obvious thing Sheep did to be town please do it in ur discretionStop-
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I was just about to commend you for your quotewall wrt Bitbringer and then you change your vote like this
What purpose did it serve anyways? There was nothing that seemed like Bitbringer was a dying wagonStop-
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I don't think that townlist will ever exist properly in the current scope of this game, not including yourself. I dunno, yours and TSE's posts are pretty similar in approach of posting rapidly in a short period of time under the pretense of trying to solve but what you've been saying doesn't exactly stick with me. I'd prefer a concrete reasoning why you're selective towards your apparent scumreads (see: what I called DNS out for) because again there was nothing showing that Bitbringer suddenly became a bad option in two pages. Like, what exactly gives tris priority over Bitbringer?In post 758, sheepsaysmeep wrote:sheep, nacl, pops, tse
dunn, gif
--abu, unwnd, shadoweh
dns, bit, tris, creat
never going to adjust my reads based on the neighborhood sorryStop-
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Ok but what is one of your reads on WehIn post 579, bitbringer wrote:
u realize there are two personalities playing this game, right?In post 578, unwnd wrote:I know you said you were on Weh cause you had nothing but what does mean for your read on her? I don't entirely disagree with your vote on DNS, I just wonder where ['struggling to get into the game] turns into VOTE:
-fire
Either head is fineStop-
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NoIn post 772, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:Want to defend yourself?
Want to give your Pop read?
Want to give your sheep read?
Want to give your TSE Read?
Want to give any RN?
Want to vote someone that isn’t interacting or mentioning you?
Spoiler:
Townie
Scummy
Annoying
What does that even mean?Stop-
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I'm not thinking about the neighborhood, it's in the back of my head honestlyIn post 779, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:
So why do you Town read Pops over the others in the Neighbourhood?In post 778, unwnd wrote:
NoIn post 772, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:Want to defend yourself?
Want to give your Pop read?
Want to give your sheep read?
Want to give your TSE Read?
Want to give any RN?
Want to vote someone that isn’t interacting or mentioning you?
Spoiler:
Townie
Scummy
Annoying
What does that even mean?
Why do you Scum Read Sheep?
Everything he says reads hollow, I don't understand why people jumped to the conclusion that the slot was town due to a minor catchup flurry and some sporadic activity with sentence one-liners not digging fully into his thought process. That's literally the scum textbook thing to do, and while he is no longer Pine the initial distaste in my mouth is still there. Is that all of my reasoning? Absolutely not, but I think this is the second time I've mentioned how I don't understand Sheep is townie because I see no true convinction in his posts. They're easy to make, and sometimes I have this mentality of similiarity, meaning that Bitbringer also makes inconsequential one-liners without any thorough explanation so it begs the question if all scum are operating under the same agenda.
The likely answer is no, but I like Bitbringer's wagon because it was the first to be actually substantiated by a slot, and a lot of people were on DNS and now there (was) someto his vote instead of just haphazardly putting it somewhere else. This is what I liked and wanted to see more, because the current status of the game is people 'feeling out' votes and making exaggerated statements for reaction. I do it too, but I liked the way Bitbringer was going because of theaccountabilityof everyone on it, something that this game needs rn instead of guess-and-check, which I think we've past that point.accountabilityStop-
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Posting one-liners is fine, you have plenty of one-liner postings in here but every person is different.
I don't need some detailed thesis or paragraph about the way you feel but a lot of things you do just don't really make much sense to me. I've talked about this such as why you decided to vote Tris over Bitbringer despite Bitbringer being I dunno, the leading wagon? This isn't a point that I want to beat everyone over the head with, I just want to understand individually why people seemingly were about to put Bitbringer through the gallows to the point where he said that he was ready to throw.Stop-
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Timing and overall you're more reactionary than the other few. Pops to me is pretty alien, overall her position in the thread doesn't give me confidence but I feel like in some capacity she is trying to send signals from mother base that is understandable. That's a cheeky way of saying that the things she is doing seems to have intent and purpose. When you make posts I'm kinda wondering what it's all going to lead to? I guess another example I could give is GIF who isn't exactly making the most detailed reasoning but I'm not bothered by process because it comes from an individual perspective that doesn't seem fitted to what is going (right now). Your flurry wall doesn't really matter to me because of the timing that it comes from. You're quite reactionary to the criticism I've solicited thus far and have chosen to tell me to be dissapointed and turning into a play style thing. It's not entirely a playstyle thing.In post 783, sheepsaysmeep wrote:where does my lack of thorough thinking iyo translate into wolf rather than not villagery, just out of curiosityStop-
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Sheep/TSE prob isn't a thing, I am very open to the idea of one though. I don't think TSE/Sheep/Bitbringer willeverbe a thing but again you have a lot of people TRing sheep and then TSE seems like he'd give up a fight. Bitbringer essentially rolled over and I don't see why we wouldn't give him what he was supposedly wanting if I read it corrrectly.Stop-
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Independent reads bring variety, but I dunno where you think Tris is gonna get lynched over the other options if you don't bring something to the table feel me?In post 789, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
if there was like a day left before deadline when i voted, i would have voted bit because they were a higher wagonIn post 784, unwnd wrote:I've talked about this such as why you decided to vote Tris over Bitbringer despite Bitbringer being I dunno, the leading wagon?
but independent strength of the read matters more for me until then; before then, votes mean pressure to me essentially and it seemed of my two scumreads one was already receiving enough pressure and one was getting no pressure and not really having to do anythingStop-
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Oh, perhaps my habitual pessimism was decided too soon? I dunno, it begs the question where everyone else who unvoted is at rn tooIn post 927, Definitely Not Scum wrote:I would actually rather bitbringer and I know my partner would too.Stop-
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I dunno why you're ignoring what proceeded that? Who I would lynch is all there to gander in #93In post 968, NaCl wrote:Why would you go for this now, when you were against low-information lynches earlier? From what I've seen from Creature, yeah, the posting was meh, but I don't think that this lynch would really be that beneficial.Stop-
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In no way is all the scum on Bitbringer mislynch, thinking that maybe one at best just based on wagonomics. I was TRing GiF for a while and I thought his spat at the end of the day reaffirmed that, no strong explanation other than I felt his frustration towards wanting to do more as town was p genuine. Weh gets solved later/maybe has something interesting to say. Dunn is ???a and then I've stated my position on NaCL before just not in-depth. I see a scenario happening where Weh doesn't GAF as scum and is a lone mate on there or I'd put chances on NaCl. Might be shortsighted to say 'there is definitely only one' but w/eIn post 1121, MariaR wrote:
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch!
Deadline ends in (expired on 2019-11-06 17:25:06)
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I said what you did but just in higher volumeIn post 1131, popsofctown wrote:
?In post 1128, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I’ll be watching for a scum chat slip. O.O
That shit doesn’t fly past me.
What's this post mean?
In spite of being offwagon for the BitBringer thing, I think it might have been town driven. I don't think fixating on it is going to be the right path
How does that make U feelStop-
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Any potshot theories if 1/2? I find on D1 if scum is able to not be involved with a mislynch they'll just let it happenIn post 1133, popsofctown wrote: 1, or 2.Stop-
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Like a baby sucking his thumbIn post 1138, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:Unwnd did you sleep peacefully?Stop-
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Nope, noneIn post 1143, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:
You sure? No Night feedback?In post 1142, unwnd wrote:I meant that game-wise
Does this have some greater purpose you're only slightly hinting atStop-
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Agree about Abu. Think if NaCL somehow happens to be wrong then Dunn can be deepwolf but not gonna deal with that rnIn post 1146, popsofctown wrote:NaCl can pair with Shadoweh or Dunnstral o.k. Although you or GiF could be a deepwolf too. I tend to agree with the kind of posting people are pointing out as leading away from GiF-scum but I just for some reason have this gut feeling that GiF could have a really wide scumrange. I can't actually justify it either, I've only ever seen him play town. Idk.
I'd be a lot more impressed if you flipped scum somehow.
If anything in the votecount sticks out I think Abu's TSE vanity wagon doesn't look good, with a big leading wagon like bitbringer it's townier to be WKing the wagon or counterwagoning it or even on it because you believe in it. The pattern of "sit back and let it happen" seems the most resonant for his slot with him spending time whining about getting scumread once he started playing but not spending any time I remember working to make sure the day's lynch was correct.
I might be starting a rock fight in a glass house to some extent but there was some softness to my bb read. Hydras suck :/Stop-
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I really hope you're not trying to convince me lynching myself is best for Town. However no one is going to trust you regardless because you are openly bad.In post 1178, Shadoweh wrote:[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=11367404#p11367404]
No Vig on you.
Lynching You is best for Town.
Trust in me.
I'm very concerned that this is going to be me today and Abu tomorrow and then we just like, lose.[/quote]
I don't believe in this plan, if anything I'd prefer NaCLStop-
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Pops AND DNS both being scum is a stretch, but one? Possibly. I don't believe in easy games or one where the person who lurks a lot is clearly a scummy, not going to defend Abu here entirely but if we're using this game itself as a reference, Suji was a lurker for about 2 weeks and his slot flipped town. I guess the way I look at Abu is like, yeah, he's a good lynch if we're scratching our heads but I think there's more interesting choices out there.
I had a point to make about your point about 'why would scum claim their target when mod said not to' but that just goes into a bunch of circular logic and there's no point if you're [scum] to tell you doing [thing] to defend oneself by [anti-town] move means you are [town].
Results would be nice, do you have anyone you would trust to understand them?Stop-
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Just seems to fit in my mind. I've written paragraphs about a few people and I could selectively decide to compare the two in ways that point to similar behavior but then I'd be repeating myself. We have a fresh day on some new flips and once I live past D1 (lynched/killed) I like to start thinking about the exact reason for why wagons form. It's not exactly some new strategy, but it personally engages me. In D1, NaCL never really showed any gumption and I found a lot of his presence to be listless. I think he begs to have a greater impresssion on others but ultimately does nothing with it if that makes sense? If I can recall correctly, his bitbringer reasoning was kinda just like 'ok whatever' and just copying the consensus going around. I think in terms of how bitbringer happen and the idea of being scum it would be the person who would feign indifference in the moment of suspicion.In post 1157, Definitely Not Scum wrote:
I'd like to talk to you more about this NaCL read. What is the genesis of this read?In post 1150, unwnd wrote:Agree about Abu. Think if NaCL somehow happens to be wrong then Dunn can be deepwolf but not gonna deal with that rn
Pops, I would like the same analysis re: Abu
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ISO'ing NaCL and here's how thought process turns on Bitbringer over the course of the week(s). Call this a semi-case but I really do believe in timing. Maybe that's a bias towards myself but I feel like scum especially always have their intentions placed in ways that work out in their favor. Like, NAcL's indifference towards bitbringer remains somewhat consistent but still touching on a topic that gains traction.
As for unwnd, it's not just that it's a null read, but he's scumreading a lot of people(idk what bitbringer has really done to earn it, mostly)
I think what's interesting to me is that around the time NAcL decides to say Bitbringer is scummy, deadline is closer approaching. ISO's can sometimes be misleading but I wanna refer to when DNS started to double-down on Bitbringer, because it was around this turning point actually. I'll try not to bring exact dates but picture in your mind (or go look) around the time I'm referring to.Regarding the bitbringer wagon, could someone explain what they see there? To me,it seems like bitbringer has done a lot not really saying much, although I don't see anything that super jumps out as scummy.
This is such a quick and sudden turn from the previous stance he took, and for what reason? I think what tips me off is that he made inquiries to understand other's perspectives but I don't think he ever had real purpose to y'know,bitbringer feels like scum flailing.
I don't really care for the whole semantics argument.considerit. Scum doesn't really need to consider points made by town, just nod slowly and agree in ways that make others townread him. I think at this point Bitbringer was doing things that would become agreeable to scumread him, and IDR but I think I talked about accountability and whatever well look who's laughing now I got it sorta
*ahem*
I can keep going on the quote wall but it would just function in a poor way. Bitbringer itself is not really the catalyst for me when it comes to NAcL, you could replace that with anyone from any other game. It is the way he decided on Bitbringer, the way he kept himself available but never too much. I guess this is a longer form way of saying he's playing to the room, but I sure enjoyed typing about it and maybe my incoherent thought processes will make sense and you'll agree to vote him.
VOTE: NAcLStop-
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I just like posting alternatives to see what others say--when it comes to lynching him I certainly wouldn't cry over itIn post 1198, popsofctown wrote:wnd I don't think you have an agenda but I think your stance on abu's slot is dumbwrongStop-
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unwnd Jack of All Trades
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- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9456
- Joined: June 12, 2019
I never got around to what I wanted to say because my motivation is waning right now. I feel like I don't have a strong indication of most people's agendas, and it's become like this perpetual waiting room. I know outright complaining usually doesn't solve anything, but in a position where I need to find scum, I want to either lean on other ideas or be backed up of my own. If people don't see NaCL then that's like totally fine, but I haven't gotten any feedback.
I don't wanna sound like a hypocrite though, in the back of my head I've said 'oh right should respond to NAcL' but just mehStop-
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unwnd Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9456
- Joined: June 12, 2019
I've lost a preemptive list of town. This room needs energy. I wish a few players would talk at me instead of about me inadvertently in the room where they pretend I can't hear them (hint: the person who said NAcL push sucked) but beggars can't be choosers. Is it getting to the point of where I whine? Hopefully not. My last post was pretty whiny, but I really wanna come together about I dunno, something. When it came to Bitbringer's death and ML, I was hoping have a good chunk of people decidedly on him would create discussion about it, but instead it's pretty been pretty dull.
To the people standing in back -- Abu, Tris, (Dunn), Whoever GiF replacement is
What's up?
Lots have come in with a few points of himself but if the theme of this game so far is to awkwardly speak about someone across the room then dunno they're all doing their part. However, what's the basis of townreading here? That's an open question and I don't need a crash course of Mafia 101, but isn't Mafia's goal to mostly fit in with town? I am not suggesting that all 4 of these people are very obviously scum and they are doing just that, no, but it's hard to determine who is/isn't if they're all doing similar things. I agree that TSE is probably town for being dense but it's like he isn't afraid to be and everyone else is being frustratingly awkward. I repeat myself but that's the point.Stop-
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unwnd Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 9456
- Joined: June 12, 2019