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Post Post #168 (isolation #0) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:02 am

Post by Kanna »

In post 103, Morning Tweet wrote:hi Kanna hi Tux hi beeboy and hi midway!

VOTE: votato

and hey there votato (^ω^)♡
hey Morning!! hey killswitch crew!

catch up;
agree dunnstral's push at the start was relatively weak. skitter's stance was easy to take though so i don't townread her for that.
reading more, i want to say dunnstral feels like he believes in his push + this kind of push seems to come from town? if he's town i think skitter/lilith could be jumping on him
clover feels agreeable, but from that brief time I played with him in another game, it's in line with town!him. Morning and votato also goes in the lightly townie, but not sure yet pile.
beeboy feels townie though!

still reading this page
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Post Post #169 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:05 am

Post by Kanna »

@Tuxedo; wrt to your points on beeboy, why is that *scummy*? what is your theory, that beeboy/dunnstral are a team?
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Post Post #171 (isolation #2) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:10 am

Post by Kanna »

oh, hello drusilla; i know exactly who you are!

VOTE: Tuxedo Mask for now.
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Post Post #232 (isolation #3) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:08 pm

Post by Kanna »

i found beeboy's reaction fine.
In post 184, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Its a 1+1=2 situation, 1 you tried to slow the game down with fluff and 1 you defended the current wagon together seems like 2 scum you wanted to defend Dunnstral but made it safe for yourself first. If it was either of those things on their own I probably wouldn't have found it scummy.
i think this 1+1=2 only works if beeboy is dunnstral's partner, no? but this connection just feels so random and possibly unnatural. i don't like the omgus accusation either.

don't like what nahdia said here.
In post 187, Nahdia wrote:
beeboy wrote:I don't think these are complex thoughts either yet they make your argument come across as incredibly flawed. And now your centering all your content around this 1v1.
beeboy this feels like a huuuuuuge stretch. i actually agree with your initial assessment of tuxedo mask's case but you engaged Tux; why is it scummy for him to focus on responding to you?
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Post Post #235 (isolation #4) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:15 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 190, midwaybear wrote:Tuxedo's initial argument on beeboy is not a good one in my opinion. I think the hey-hey was meant to be a joke, and it didn't really derail the game in my opinion. Besides, it's an attention grabbing entrance that I don't think scum would take. beeboy's defense of Dunnstral was more of a thought, and it also provided good discussion because Lilith had recently played in a game where Dunnstral wasn't like that.
I like that beeboy seems to be reading tux in good faith by letting him talk about other reads.
Tux's entrance is very similar to dunnstral's because they both picked bad reasons to scumread someone. Not liking him as of now.
i don't understand this.
tux's argument = not good = townie
tux's entrance = not good = don't like him?
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Post Post #237 (isolation #5) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:38 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 190, midwaybear wrote:Tuxedo's initial argument on beeboy is not a good one in my opinion. I think the hey-hey was meant to be a joke, and it didn't really derail the game in my opinion.
Besides, it's an attention grabbing entrance that I don't think scum would take.
beeboy's defense of Dunnstral was more of a thought, and it also provided good discussion because Lilith had recently played in a game where Dunnstral wasn't like that.
I like that beeboy seems to be reading tux in good faith by letting him talk about other reads.
Tux's entrance is very similar to dunnstral's because they both picked bad reasons to scumread someone. Not liking him as of now.

?? it could be just me, but i'm finding this confusing

your twtbw point is reasonable.
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Post Post #242 (isolation #6) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:51 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 238, midwaybear wrote:oh the bolded was talking about beeboy because he sorta made himself the center of things by making people say hey to him. Now I realize the point isn't as valid because perhaps beeboy was trying to pocket people by lightening things up, but I still find him townie for treating tuxedo in good faith even though tux's case wasn't that good.
oh, my bad. on a second readthrough then, i more or less agree. i think i'm mindmelding with Morning also which means she's probably town(!)
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Post Post #244 (isolation #7) » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:48 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 241, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Hmm, I just don't know how else to express it. Like if you reread the game in context the wagon is forming on Dunn on page 1, and they aren't RVS votes. Beeboy makes an entrance on page 2, but says nothing. Doesn't even RVS vote. They post again at the end of page 3, only to reintroduce their entrance post. Content doesn't come from them till page 4. It's just so weird like he is there watching the game unfold but not commenting on anything, while the game seemed clearly passed RVS.
i liked this thought process more, although i disagree with the conclusion.

can you elaborate on votato?

VOTE: Nahdia
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Post Post #364 (isolation #8) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:01 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 250, Nahdia wrote:This sums up my vote on beeboy. The logic doesn't make him look bad, but beeboy's attitude does. beeboy engages tux, tux responds to beeboy, and suddenly beeboy is smearing him as "centering all his content around this 1v1" (I explained why this doesn't make sense) and he's frustrating because "I see things clearly other people aren't" (the exchange had literally just begun virtually no one else checking in).

It reads like he's trying to conjure towny frustration but it doesn't seem at all appropriate to the situation. The mindset isn't right.
i had to do a double take to see it this way which by gut, doesn't seem like a good thing. have you given your thoughts on Tux's case/a read on Tux?
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Post Post #385 (isolation #9) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:31 pm

Post by Kanna »

to be honest, i'm finding the amount of players in this game a bit overwhelming and i've realised i haven't dug into lilith/dunnstral/clover much at all.

i agree that tuxedo is looking better. his latest posts seem to be tonally genuine + this feels like his towngame which i just experienced. i also remember him having slightly tinfoil ideas that i personally wouldn't think of/agree with on first pass so that is possible that's what's happening here as well. votato/morning also feel similar and they give me warm and fuzzy feelings.

i agree with nahdia on not being townie, although i don't think it's scummy. i disagree with skitter using it as reasoning.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #10) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:42 pm

Post by Kanna »

i think i'm here right now

<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>

<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE
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Post Post #398 (isolation #11) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 363, drusilla wrote:skitter feels towny to me.
can you elaborate on this? also, do you mind sharing more of your conclusions? i have to admit i sometimes find it hard to follow your line of questioning/thought process (even though i find it fascinating!)
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Post Post #468 (isolation #12) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:10 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 464, Nahdia wrote:maybe i should reframe. it's not so much that beeboy is faking it as i have a feeling it's not how town!beeboy would react there. the aggression can be both real and also scummy. i maintain the "I see things clearly other people arent" is out of place tho.
a slight problem i have is i don't know how beeboy can otherwise react? he was replying to tux's push on him which is just...as you would do in a game of mafia. how do you think town!beeboy would react?

although on readback, i'm not sure what he meant by "see things other people aren't seeing" either.

@beeboy; can you elaborate on that?
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Post Post #469 (isolation #13) » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:16 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 446, lilith2013 wrote:If the former - I think anyone who's played with scum!me (especially you) should recognize this is pretty far out of my scumrange. If the latter, I can pretend I'm still scumreading you if you want.
This kind of comment always feels townie to me, but i just looked through your scumgame (guns and roses iv) and errrr...i disagree. maybe i'm paranoid. i think you seem "townie" based on your fearlessness, but that's a playstyle. why do you say you're out of your scumrange?
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Post Post #620 (isolation #14) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:18 pm

Post by Kanna »

Spoiler:
In post 113, skitter30 wrote:like it just feels very hollow and i think he's aware of that
if he had backed down and said something like 'yeah i just picked something dumb to push you for to propel the game out of rvs' i would have been fine with that and probably dropped it,
but he doubled down, which makes me think he's treating this as a legitimate/valid reason to scumread me, and i have hard time seeing him actually believe that


also hi mt!!!
In post 120, skitter30 wrote:
In post 116, Morning Tweet wrote:a lot of people don't openly admit their pushes are weak early on. It's actually funny sometimes how big the gap between how good the push is and how confident someone is about it. I think he was playing it up in an attempt to sort you, so it doesn't really make sense to see it as town!Dunn backs down and scum!dunn doubles down
if he was planning on backing down because it was a fake push i would have expected that to have happened already
i don't think it's a push made in good faith
i also dislike his reaction to lilith's push on him

@clover:
yes, it's a real vote. i don't think he actually believes this push and i think the fact that he doubled is scummy
In post 599, skitter30 wrote:
In post 531, Nahdia wrote:i think, as scum here, it's probably very easy to just shove at me. but the way you're engaging seems less like "feeling out for a good mislynch" and more like an actual effort to sort me!

midway i'm tentative on because apparently he has a reputation for being scummy. i was back modding a game he was in where i kind of saw that. i would like to pressure that slot though. dunnstral i was fine with early because his initial vote was RVS and latching onto the tiniest reasons then is fine. but he's stubbornly held onto the read when i and others have asked him to go back and recontextualize it.
In post 532, Nahdia wrote:morningtweet was kind of gut. there was one post in particular that made me think "oh this person is actually trying to sort". .
i guess i just like ... idk
it's not like these reads/thoughts are impossible to come from town!you so much as i'd kinda expect there to be more .... heft maybe? or weight? or for them to be less shallow?
like i guess i think it's just more likely for scum!you to be approaching the game this way

also i disagree with your dunn read in that i think the fact that he's doubling down is low-key townie for him

In post 533, Nahdia wrote:mafia is weird because i dont like being scumread but it's also a lot easier to sort people when they're pressuring you. at least, i think so.
i shoul read lilith huh?
also i guess like if you're town do u think it would be easier for u to show ur towniness if i wasn't voting for you? i could back off a bit if u think that would give u room to be townie cuz we still have a lot of time but in a vacuum i think i still want to be voting u

@skitter, why is doubling down in the first 2 posts scummy, but doubling down in the bottom one townie? what is your read on dunnstral/has it changed?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #15) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:26 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 594, Raven Branwen wrote:
In post 394, Kanna wrote:i think i'm here right now

<Morning Tweet, Tuxedo Mask, votato>
<beeboy, Dunnstral>
<Clover Ebi, midwaybear>

<skitter30, lilith2013, Raven Branwen, Nahdia, drusilla> -- POE
I forgot to address this yesterday but can you explain your reasoning for this list? Like why are Tux and votato so high and Clover so low and obviously your PoE. is it ordered and why am I in it because you don’t have a solid read on me yet or have I actually done anything you see as scummy?
i don't think i've ever said anything about clover? i think he's vaugely townie. i've seen his play in noughts and crosses and he seems "nice" in the same way. looking back through his iso, i might actually put him a bit higher. the fact that he was townleaning people/having no firm scumreads feels like he's speaking his mind rather than avoiding taking stances.

morning/votato/tux are high because i just played a game with them and they all feel very familiar. only tux felt a bit stilted, but there were a string of posts which i liked. it felt good both morning/votato picked up on that as well, as well as when he felt more genuine. although, tux's latest post...i don't know, maybe feels a bit stiff for me, but i think he's still a townread.

Dunnstral/Clover/midway are more tonal reads that feel genuine and yes, the bottom is people i haven't found a reason to townread.
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Post Post #622 (isolation #16) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:32 pm

Post by Kanna »

oh i missed beeboy;;; i find him townie too. i also liked that one comment he made about me and noughts and crosses - it's unnecessary if he's mafia because it's easy to cover up so he could push me. the fact he mentioned it means he's acting in good faith. i'm a bit confused about his votato read though wrt to apathy(?)
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Post Post #623 (isolation #17) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:40 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 472, lilith2013 wrote:I can’t fake gamesolving on a macro level, basically. Have you read any of my other games?
no, i only read that one and couldn't pick up any noticeable differences. thanks for the clarification!
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Post Post #624 (isolation #18) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:47 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 615, Raven Branwen wrote:Scum is more often than not, generally less likely to fall into that category and is usually sofisticated enough to fool people early game.
This seems to be how mafia *feels*, but realistically everyone has a chance of being mafia, right?
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Post Post #638 (isolation #19) » Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:42 pm

Post by Kanna »

i think i like raven.

idk if anyone will go with me on this, but skitter could be scum VOTE: skitter30
i don't really see the raven/nahdia link and it feels weird how she's portraying it that way like in these posts:
In post 601, skitter30 wrote:also that's also nahdia/raven partner-y
In post 629, skitter30 wrote:
In post 614, Nahdia wrote:i guess. my feeling was just that like, raven and i have both been fairly low impact posters thus far. so it's "easiest" to scumread us because we're not likely to hit back hard.
i feel like you're trying to tie yourself to raven almost ...
and if lilith is trying to take an easy read ... why not vote you given that i'm urging her to?
she also seems to be talking nicely about people who i think are influential/hard to push in this playerlist (beeboy/lilith) + potentially drusilla, if they're town/partners. the response is going to be they're townie sure, but it seems convenient.

this post pinged me at the time as being possibly tmi because this was not a good reason to townread beeboy
In post 257, skitter30 wrote:also i feel like 188 is a townie reaction to what you said about beeboy's push, no?
has your read on dunnstral changed then, skitter?
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Post Post #670 (isolation #20) » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:55 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 645, skitter30 wrote:a) raven is making a point of making it known that she can't commit to a read on nahdia
b) nahdia is defending raven from being pushed
c) what do you think of the fact that lilith also sees the associative?
raven does mention not knowing how to read nahdia a few times, but i'm not seeing it as obviously partnery? what would be the scum motivation? why does that make them partners?
for b), i'm not seeing that. can you link those posts?
and c), lilith isn't pushing this connection like you are. the way you're doing this feels agenda-y, i think
In post 645, skitter30 wrote:i mean ... they're townie so like what do you want me to say? call them scummy?
also multiple people have to the conclusion of town!beeboy and town!lilith. are these scummy reads in general or is it just scummy for me to have them?
it's like i said in the post. it's not scummy, but it's convenient; i'd expect you to want this kind of footing as scum.
In post 645, skitter30 wrote:it was a good reason to twonread beeboy; i don't think scum back down there the way he did.
and i think it's scummy of nahdia to use that to push him
i don't understand why scum can't back down. i think beeboy is townie for other things, but it was weird that was the reason you chose to townread him for. i agree nahdia's pushing on him seemed scummy.
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Post Post #671 (isolation #21) » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:57 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 629, skitter30 wrote:i feel like you're trying to tie yourself to raven almost ...
also here, you said it's like nahdia is trying to tie herself to raven - why would scum *try* and tie themselves to their partner?
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Post Post #722 (isolation #22) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:15 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 677, drusilla wrote:beeboy and kanna felt like they were feeling out support for pressuring me, whereas lilith felt like she was sorting me.
where did you get the impression i was doing this?
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Post Post #723 (isolation #23) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:18 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 681, drusilla wrote:it felt like she had been thinking about both how much support she would have for her push on skitter and how that push would look to others. others had previously been townread for pushing skitter and for starting wagons with little support and to borrow kanna's word her push felt convenient.
what did you think of my points in that push?
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Post Post #725 (isolation #24) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:28 pm

Post by Kanna »

Link to VC on this page.

In post 689, drusilla wrote:and the lack of followup to my response.
ftr, i read it and i still mulling over what i think about you. i don't feel the need to reply with "ok" to every answer i get.

i'm not sure how i feel about you scumreading me over me playing "mechanically" which = consistency, but also inconsistency because i didn't state a read on you.
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Post Post #726 (isolation #25) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:30 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 689, drusilla wrote:it is not lost on me that this post was about beeboy.
and what would you say this tells you?
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Post Post #727 (isolation #26) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:33 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 685, Nahdia wrote:
In post 683, beeboy wrote:Btw, I am not actually feeling anyone's Raven read, I don't really see where that read is coming from.
Someone help me with that, they just read as null for me.

The only thing is she called Nahdia LHF, which I agree even cutting out all knowledge from outside this game just isn't true. Although I just don't think this game has LHF, even the newer players like Tux are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
i think raven has a pretty clear progressions. i dont see why she harps on not being able to read my slot as scum, particularly when there are a lot of other things she could comment on.
her wariness towards people pushing the easy targets feels real, especially given how she explained it in .
I agree with the bolded. There's a genuineness in that post that i think is hard to fake.
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Post Post #728 (isolation #27) » Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:35 pm

Post by Kanna »

oh I haven’t responded to skitter’s posts; I’ll do that tomorrow.
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Post Post #810 (isolation #28) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Post by Kanna »

i didn't label the first one as a), but since you responded with a reply to a), then i assume you get that was a) and in that case, this doesn't make sense:
In post 645, skitter30 wrote:a) raven is making a point of making it known that she can't commit to a read on nahdia
In post 670, Kanna wrote:raven does mention not knowing how to read nahdia a few times, but i'm not seeing it as obviously partnery? what would be the scum motivation? why does that make them partners?
In post 713, skitter30 wrote:A) the associative is more on nahdia's side than raven's
you were talking about a raven link here. the questions were also not answered.

to be honest, after reading the defense compilation i can see the white-knighting argument, but the fact that the partner thing was pushed so strongly makes me feel like that's fabricated. like there's a disconnect between seeing something that can be pushed as scum vs pushing for the right reasoning, which i felt for that beeboy argument (even though skitter disagrees). there's also been multiple cases of defense, but i'm not sure why skitter calls out this one specifically. nahdia/raven were relatively open to being voted so i can definitely see scum doing something like this, but not really town.
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Post Post #811 (isolation #29) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:51 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 738, lilith2013 wrote:skitter, when you say "raven likes being defended by [nahdia]," is that implying that raven is the S in the SvT? How can nahdia be WKing raven then?
skitter has been openly scumreading nahdia. why were you thinking that could be the case, lilith?
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Post Post #812 (isolation #30) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:57 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 760, Clover Ebi wrote:How do people feel about 638 by Kanna? Do you think scum her goes after Skitter of all people? It's making me scratch my head on how to read it.
what do you think of the content of my post?
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Post Post #813 (isolation #31) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:03 pm

Post by Kanna »

votato in my mind was still likely town and i'd like to see Starbuck finish catching up and give her opinions although it's taking a while and i'm becoming less confident in the slot. i also disliked Morning's latest post. felt a bit detached(?)
@Morning, what prompted that vote?
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Post Post #814 (isolation #32) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:05 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 790, lilith2013 wrote:Kanna, why did you join and why did you leave the nahdia wagon?
i thought nahdia was scummy for their beeboy push, but skitter pushing the nahdia/raven link made me feel worse and i feel like raven is town. nahdia, i'm agreeing with lately.
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Post Post #820 (isolation #33) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:20 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 818, drusilla wrote:you asked me a specific question and a very open question, instead of asking other specific questions about what you were finding it hard to follow, and then it didn't seem like my answers made any difference to you. so to me it felt like you were seeing who else might pressure me or looking for a reason to scumread me.
it was just like i wanted to see more of what you were doing, because in CoC, i remembered you doing background solving that was similar to your first post. at that point, i found you vaguely scummy, but it was a shaky (heh) read. then you elaborated and that feeling still didn't go away even though your logic made sense. so i didn't comment. i don't see how this is different from any other question (regardless of whether it's open/closed)? also, i just don't know how you can come to that conclusion from me asking to see your logic - did you feel pressured? or else, do you think your logic would be faulty to get other people to scumread you?
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Post Post #821 (isolation #34) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:21 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 818, drusilla wrote:you had recently asked me to elaborate on my read of skitter and looking at the reasons you had for scumreading her it felt like the reasons i had for townreading her that you didn't openly disagree with were stronger even if i accepted your premises so it added to my feeling that you were working toward a predetermined conclusion.
i really don't understand this
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Post Post #822 (isolation #35) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:29 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 818, drusilla wrote:it is not as though lilith's 'cool, thanks' was helpful to me but she asked me a closed question that i was able to determine the likely purpose of, whereas you asked me a question about a read and an open question that seemed like it could serve many purposes. since there was no followup with regards to my read of skitter i would assume that you accepted my read. since there was no followup with regards to the lines of questioning i assumed i addressed the one which you were having trouble following.

what i mean by mechanical is that it feels like you are working from a checklist. like you presented a poe of five people you weren't actively townreading and then only worked from that, asking me, nahdia and lilith a question or two and then simply stating that you townread raven branwen, before voting skitter.
i addressed some of the first paragraph in that other post, but yes, i accepted it. and i can't really respond to the second, but i guess that's just how i scumhunt.

honestly, i'm still not sure how i feel about you, so i'm going to look through some past games tomorrow (probably)
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Post Post #823 (isolation #36) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:34 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 818, drusilla wrote:i think post 622 is + partner equity for you/beeboy and post 684 is ++ partner equity for both you/nahdia and nahdia/beeboy. is it not noteworthy to you that in response to me scumreading you and beeboy nahdia said you were towny particularly because of a post that was a townread of beeboy presented as an addendum to your other read-elaborations? does that not stand out to you?
also, no?? can you elaborate on what your theory is here?
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Post Post #824 (isolation #37) » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:36 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 818, drusilla wrote:the main reason people were scumreading votato was because he was joining every wagon which i've seen him do as town before. he did something sort of similar in lovers mafia as mafia but it felt different there to me. i don't really see the usefulness of it but it felt like there was an edge to it here, which i think is slightly town indicative.
can you also explain what feels different and what edge are you talking about?
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Post Post #954 (isolation #38) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:36 am

Post by Kanna »

Didn’t feel like playing mafia yesterday, will catch up soon
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Post Post #959 (isolation #39) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:51 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 839, lilith2013 wrote:I was super confused by how I read it and I thought that meant there was a huge hole in skitter’s argument (that raven liking being defended = scummy but that wasn’t what skitter was trying to say)
how did you read it? i ask because i don't know how you misunderstood it for you to come to that conclusion
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Post Post #960 (isolation #40) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:53 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 855, Tuxedo Mask wrote:@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.
i feel like it's been overexplained at this point, were you following our interactions? basically, i felt like skitter's partner push was agenda-y and there were parts of it that didn't add up which made me think it could be faked. also, raven/nahdia both didn't look good at the time, which would make sense for scum motivation.
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Post Post #961 (isolation #41) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:59 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 855, Tuxedo Mask wrote:It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.
Actually, ^ suggests you were following i think? does that mean you disagree? or why did you ask this question?

maybe it's because it's been a while though, i want to revisit it to see if i feel as strongly about it.
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Post Post #962 (isolation #42) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:01 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 864, Tuxedo Mask wrote:Especially useful when three people are voting a townie player.
What was this referring to?
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Post Post #966 (isolation #43) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:31 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 963, Tuxedo Mask wrote:It wasn't a question? Just an observation. Skitter says it looks like Raven and Nahdia are working together. Raven and Nahdia both go after Skitter for it. I guess it's just one of those things that demonstrates her point.
I meant the previous question - if you were following, then why did you ask it? it didn't seem to need asking, is what i'm saying.

also i thought that was addressed to skitter for a nahdia vote?
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Post Post #968 (isolation #44) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:33 pm

Post by Kanna »

all @drusilla's post
In post 865, drusilla wrote:seems to serve the same purpose to me. like you were searching for something to scumread or for someone else to scumread, and given the situation of the game (no strong wagon) it felt like what mafia would be looking to do.
i think the more likely answer is: you ask closed questions when there is something specific you want to know, and open questions when you don't. i don't like trying to attach scum motivation to simple actions because i think that can go for almost anything. do you really think this read is reliable? although, the fact that you did bring up your own game with this makes me feel like you prepared it as backup if this conversation got to this stage
In post 865, drusilla wrote:i don't see any buddying or distancing from skitter in the early game events surrounding her and dunnstral and i don't think that is an opportunity scum!skitter would miss with the game focused on her and she did not accept a potential reason for townreading her when given the option. that seems to far outweigh her talking nicely about lilith/beeboy/me and pointing out potential associatives even if you think those associatives are weak. so it felt like you were working toward the conclusion 'skitter is mafia', not evaluating her.
what's your experience with skitter? how familiar are you with her play? do you think i should have picked up on this and townread her? i don't understand your conclusion at all
In post 865, drusilla wrote:is this... true? i looked through your games and couldn't find a similar instance of you creating a limited subset to scumhunt within and then solely doing so.
yes? i think i'm playing pretty normally, although thinking back, i did post a readlist which i don't normally do which i feel like most of this is based on. what do you think if i told you i just felt like posting one this time?

i have to admit i was lazy and didn't get around to those past games, but i will do soon.
In post 865, drusilla wrote:i do not have one unified theory but rather various thoughts to weigh against eachother. post 622 is + partner equity for you/beeboy because it stands out from your other elaborations. and if beeboy and nahdia are partners, it makes sense for nahdia to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy because then you are more likely to defend him in this situation as well. and if you and nahdia are partners, it makes sense for nahdia to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy because then beeboy is more likely to defend you. it doesn't seem all that likely that all three of you are mafia, but it seems extremely coincidental that nahdia's response to my scumread of you and beeboy was to say you are town because of your townread of beeboy, especially since that didn't seem like an excessively towny post to me.
this could be me being dumb but i still don't know why that means anything. in my question, i wanted you to explain what your theory was when you said it "stood out" - do you think in this situation all three of us are mafia? one? two? and why do you think the actions taken would make sense in that situation?
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Post Post #971 (isolation #45) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:42 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 869, drusilla wrote:that post by nahdia seems so unlikely to just happen to happen to me. like i know going down this road has caused me problems before but if you said skitter and i were mafia right now, and nahdia replied that she thought skitter was towny for her townread of me, what would you think?
by "going down this road," i'm assuming you mean conspiracy theories, right? and if so, why are you choosing to go down this road?

from memory, i think you stepped away from these and focused on more grounded theories for scumhunting - would you agree?
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Post Post #976 (isolation #46) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:50 pm

Post by Kanna »

Morning's post is gonna take a while to get through, although skimming through it, i'm don't think i'm mindmelding with some of the reads D:

i will get back to things later
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Post Post #998 (isolation #47) » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:59 pm

Post by Kanna »

went through shiki's meta and i think i'm scumleaning her now. as town, she has more good faith takes and is more at the forefront of the game, while as scum, she does more background solving. she's also a bit agenda-y in pushing someone with reasons that are ok, but not the most *likely* (like doctorpepper in that gacha game). i feel like she might be doing that to me now actually; if she has to come up with conspiracy style reasoning for a scumread + draw a connections, she might not believe in it. it's like she saw the opportunity first and made a case around that, i think

also, i think i should be able to understand more of these theories if it came from a good place. in CoC, i remember i didn't mindmeld on anything as well. shiki, are you trying to mislynch me? it kinda hurts...
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Post Post #1107 (isolation #48) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:26 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1011, drusilla wrote:other than you, i am the most familiar with skitter from this playerlist. we previously played together in newbie 1992 and mystery box of silver gnine and i have read many of her games outside of that. her play in jazz mafia is one of the reasons i joined the site. i do not think you would have had to have individually picked up on what i did in order to townread her because you asked me to elaborate on my read of skitter, a read you said you then accepted, so i would have expected you to weigh the information i presented against the information that was informing your read of skitter which you had not yet presented.
not sure how to describe it, but for pretty much all those reasons, i can't comment, but i just don't see it. i don't particularly see those opportunities, nor am i really familiar with skitter's play and it's all ??? i can't even comment on your read on it. does that clear it up?
In post 1011, drusilla wrote:this sort of 'mechanical' 'following a checklist' (sorry i really don't know how to else to describe it. like you thought of where you were going, drew a map to get there, and followed it.) seems very scummy to me.
yes, i get it, and out of the points you mentioned, i think this is the one that makes most sense. however, like i said, i feel like this only ties together because i posted a readlist which i don't normally do. i asked you, if i told you i just wanted to post a readlist this game, what would you think? is it possible for you to consider a situation for if i was town? but you're kind of ignoring me there. but overall, i do understand this.
In post 1011, drusilla wrote:as i tried to explain to beeboy, it means something because nahdia's post seems unlikely to happen organically. i said beeboy and you are scummy. nahdia then said you are towny because of your townread of beeboy. maybe it doesn't make sense to ask you, but does 622 feel super towny to you? like if you had to pick one of your posts to say this is why i'm town so far would that have been the one? it seems more chosen because of the surrounding events than a real read to me.
maybe? i can kind of see it considering beeboy townread me for a similar reason in killswitch though. but, this is what i mean by "conspiracy theory" where i feel like there's a too much leaping for me to believe it caught your eye naturally if you were scumhunting for most-likely solutions and more like you're using your powers to misdirect.
In post 1011, drusilla wrote:i think you know i'm not. even this feels manipulative because you know how much i dislike upsetting people by incorrectly scumreading them (most notably datisi is newbie 1992, morning tweet in mystery box hate).
really?/? i haven't read those games, although i do feel the same way. but at the same time, this is mafia and i think you will definitely want to win - you did target doctorpepper in gacha mafia and CoC. i don't like the use of "manipulative" as a blanket shade though.

i have bad memory and don't remember much of hungarian, but what i'm trying to say here is i feel like you're reverting to not-super-likely theories (e.g the open ended question thing = casting suspicion on you, and the predetermined conclusion thing) to scumread me. it feels...nitpicky(?) and since i know you play more grounded lately, i don't think you really think this. the only thing i'm hesitating about is it's true i don't think you would target me specifically considering we are friends.
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Post Post #1108 (isolation #49) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:30 pm

Post by Kanna »

i think i still prefer skitter. nahdia brought up some good points and skitter's reason of "it just feels like tvt to me" now doesn't feel right.
In post 1021, Nahdia wrote:you weren't forming reads like that in BotC!

like, when you were reading Raven and I as partners (for reasons I refuted and you accepted), fine. but now to hold onto "there's 1 scum i nthe two of you" just looks to me like you're lining up lynches. WHY is raven scum if im town? we don't feel tvt to you if you're scumreading me, obviously. but if it turns out im town and your read was therefore wrong, why should that mean you start aiming for raven?
In post 1084, Nahdia wrote:
In post 1052, Clover Ebi wrote:@Raven/Nahdia do you see how the way you guys are playing around each other could be considered buddying to some extent?
On a surface level, sure. That's not the sticking point here though. The point is that the way skitter has read the two of us has consistently been weird/agenda driven.

First she reads us as partners, despite having no independent read on Raven. Then I point out the issue there, so she decides I'm WKing her. And now at the very least, we can't be TvT. She townreads Raven (though has also thrown some random shade like in ) but if I flip town, she'll apparently reassess Raven.

I get that you think this spat is clogging up the thread here but like, the deadline is coming and I know who I want to push down that well.
were very good posts imo and i think people should consider it.

i don't like starbuck's push either but i don't feel very confident just on that to wagon her. i mostly skimmed today; will see later if there's things to comment on.
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Post Post #1109 (isolation #50) » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:40 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1011, drusilla wrote:i can think of a handful of games i was at the forefront of as town and just as many if not more that i was not.
also, do you mind providing a few links?
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Post Post #1148 (isolation #51) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:50 am

Post by Kanna »

I think it was starbuck who mentioned this, but it’s a good point that a skitter/nahdia flip is good to resolve
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Post Post #1248 (isolation #52) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:49 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1150, Starbuck wrote:I'm fine with one or the other. Given skitter's severe overreaction, I'd much rather that elimination.
what overeaction do you mean here? what are your reasons for scumreading skitter?
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Post Post #1267 (isolation #53) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:59 pm

Post by Kanna »

i feel kind of weird about starbuck being passionate about skitter/nahdia actually, especially since i said it was a good point and she seemed to make it her main point aaaaaaaaaa
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Post Post #1274 (isolation #54) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:03 pm

Post by Kanna »

@dunnstral
In post 1150, Starbuck wrote:
In post 1148, Kanna wrote:I think it was starbuck who mentioned this, but it’s a good point that a skitter/nahdia flip is good to resolve
I'm fine with one or the other. Given skitter's severe overreaction, I'd much rather that elimination.



Midway, we aren't getting Dunn today. Please pick one of Nahdia or skitter. Either or. We need to figure out this 1v1.
like this post and the following posts. i'm not sure when she became really passionate about the skitter/nahdia thing and she seemed to focus on the "resolving" point more when i said it.

p-edit: aaaaaa VOTE: Starbuck
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Post Post #1278 (isolation #55) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:05 pm

Post by Kanna »

midway, i don't feel too strongly about at all. which is maybe the point why people want to lynch him, but
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Post Post #1280 (isolation #56) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:07 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1276, Dunnstral wrote:OK but why does being passionate about that make them wiki @Kanna
because i remember her asking me for a summary before and i don't know when they became really passionate about it so here, it looks weird and opportunistic(?)
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Post Post #1288 (isolation #57) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:10 pm

Post by Kanna »

@midway; i'm not even voting you??
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Post Post #1290 (isolation #58) » Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:11 pm

Post by Kanna »

also @midway; this is literally your reason for scumreading me a few posts ago
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #59) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:54 am

Post by Kanna »

it was a conspiracy....it was a conspiracy all along......

Claim paired werewolf

@shiki; I’m scum but I thought you were opposing scum too...let’s hug it out

Is there any reason not to claim partners?
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Post Post #1411 (isolation #60) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:56 am

Post by Kanna »

EVERYONE. I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT. I AM A WW FACTIONAL COP. NAHDIA IS ALIGNED WITH THE MAFIA. VOTE: Nahdia
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Post Post #1417 (isolation #61) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:58 am

Post by Kanna »

Vote nahdia and trust me. There’s no reason for me to lie about this
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Post Post #1424 (isolation #62) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:02 am

Post by Kanna »

shikiiiiii <333 !!!
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Post Post #1431 (isolation #63) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:03 am

Post by Kanna »

Just fyi, I checked the flips first then thought: oh of course my result is useless, but NOPE, GOT SUPER LUCKY
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Post Post #1438 (isolation #64) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:04 am

Post by Kanna »

In post 1425, beeboy wrote:And Kanna did you ask what result you would get if you targeted yourself with your alignment cop?
I’m a factional cop with the description of “you can target someone and you’ll find out exactly what faction they’re apart of.” I thought this meant multiball. Nahdia came up straight mafia
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Post Post #1445 (isolation #65) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:05 am

Post by Kanna »

In post 1428, Nahdia wrote:VOTE: kanna
Dunnstral wrote:What does that mean nahdia?
I mean i got rolecopped, they saw I'm a factional cop, and they quick guilted me to get me lynched.
sure lol. whether I need to flip first or not, you’re getting lynched
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Post Post #1449 (isolation #66) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:06 am

Post by Kanna »

This is the first time I’ve ever gotten a guilty as a cop, I feel so accomplished !!
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Post Post #1456 (isolation #67) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:08 am

Post by Kanna »

In post 1446, Dunnstral wrote:You should have waited for pair claims.
Why?
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Post Post #1466 (isolation #68) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:10 am

Post by Kanna »

Oh that’s my bad. Nahdia, who are you paired with? You can’t lie because you’ll be found out though.
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Post Post #1517 (isolation #69) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:31 am

Post by Kanna »

What if tux is also mafia but is selling out nahdia right now because they know my result is real?
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Post Post #1644 (isolation #70) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:29 am

Post by Kanna »

Nahdia is scary D:

@Hectic: have you lied in this game in any shape or form?
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Post Post #1647 (isolation #71) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:32 am

Post by Kanna »

I remember this suggestion a while back, but explaining our play with our partners in mind could be useful. Morning and I worked solidly as a team
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Post Post #1663 (isolation #72) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:45 am

Post by Kanna »

Actually, it’s impossible any one of me/morning are scum considering we have a factional cop which is a better kill than a bodyguard. Also we discussed together who to cop and if either of us were scum, we wouldn’t have copped nahdia.

Otherwise, we switched between light townreading and bussing for the whole day

Also, we have a bond of friendship
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Post Post #1664 (isolation #73) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:47 am

Post by Kanna »

I’d like Tux to explain his partnership with Nahdia
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Post Post #1892 (isolation #74) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:55 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 1884, Raven Branwen wrote:@Kanna, what made you decide to investigate Nahdia? When did your read on her change?
morning and i thought starbuck was *our* traitor and was crumbing to us here:
In post 1048, Starbuck wrote:Let's see here, I need to take a look closer at a few folks.....

So far I've sorted

Townish
Morning Tweet
Kanna
beeboy
Raven Branwen
Clover Ebi
so we took a gamble that we could have another one (nahdia) because they was townreading us too. also they were possibly on the chopping block today with pushing the counterwagon yesterday and we needed to know if we should save them. very much right for the wrong reasons, sorry nahdia.
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Post Post #1893 (isolation #75) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:06 pm

Post by Kanna »

i've looked through nahdia's ISO and does this ping anyone?
In post 1340, Nahdia wrote:not sure claiming pts is good. at least not until weve had more checkins.
i feel like this hesitance was so they could choose the best partner claim since they probably didn't know all the pairs
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Post Post #1895 (isolation #76) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:20 pm

Post by Kanna »

i was thinking something like mafia had a choice to claim a dead partner or their own partner? in that case, yeah, i think that points to tux and they're trying to distance

either way, scum is probably nahdia + <tux, clover, midway>
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Post Post #1896 (isolation #77) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:21 pm

Post by Kanna »

*by own partner i mean their mafia buddy
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Post Post #1897 (isolation #78) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:23 pm

Post by Kanna »

wait, does that make sense? @_@
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Post Post #1903 (isolation #79) » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Kanna »

Also did we ever get this? I'm very curious
In post 1401, Tuxedo Mask wrote:
In post 1352, beeboy wrote:So how do we adjust from our day 1 not being useful at all?
I'm working on something that could salvage our day 1 but it'll have to wait. Can't spill the beans just yet.
In post 1536, Tuxedo Mask wrote:ARGH! MY PLAN!

I told Nahdia how I planned to approach the day if everyone was Wolves. So now it won't work. Unless there isn't a Mafia chat or something.
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Post Post #1936 (isolation #80) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 am

Post by Kanna »

I want to vouch for drusilla! I can see her townie heart. And obviously I trust Morning.

I think this spews skitter town and she vouches for Raven so i think that’s also ok...
In post 1423, Nahdia wrote:Alrighty,
I got rolecopped.


Same claim; skitter is a werewolf.
Beeboy/Dunnstral I feel should be town although those are my weak townreads

I just realised that partner-partner play isn’t that significant since a potential mafia pair of paired together would’ve been playing like mafia anyway? Pairs which don’t have good chemistry are more likely to contain one mafia though since I’d think they’d be more invested in their wincon. Pairs with good chemistry are either pure or both mafia(?) Except i still think Nahdia/Tux make sense as a mafia/mafia couple hm

<Tux, Clover, Midway>

I agree Tux is probably the next elimination. Clover/Midway are a tossup

@Drusilla; why is Midway clear? What’s not to say Midway is not scum who killed their partner and forced to claim solo?
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Post Post #1939 (isolation #81) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:29 am

Post by Kanna »

actually (mostly) disregard the last part, i was just thinking of a scenario where scum would pivot between partner choices, but that doesn't matter. still, i think midway isn't clear unless you cleared him because of a strong townread.

this is very possible:

morning tweet - kanna
drusilla - clover ebi
dunnstral - beeboy
skitter - raven branwen
nahdia
- lilith
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- starbuck
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Post Post #1960 (isolation #82) » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:50 am

Post by Kanna »

goodbye friends o7
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Post Post #3602 (isolation #83) » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:53 pm

Post by Kanna »

In post 3578, beeboy wrote:Image

Back stabbed by Dunnstral, and I couldn't even lynch the Mayor.
What a game.
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Post Post #3603 (isolation #84) » Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:54 pm

Post by Kanna »

thank you for the great game everyone! + thanks for moderating hectic, menalque <3


had a lot of fun!
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