Mini Theme 2158: Cards of Destiny Mafia Game Over

[DoctorPepper]

@DoctorPepper - It’s been a long while. I’m Boonskiies, you missing the first scum game I ever won on site, The Case of the Missing Doctor Pepper, back in 2014.

Oh yeaaaaah, the one I kinda had to let my co mod take over. :/

Well I see the Don Corleone award on you at the moment

[DoctorPepper]

VOTE: Prune

Does this actually count?? (Assuming this is a vote for Date)

[DoctorPepper]

I hope I didn't just gladiate Date because I really didn't pick up that connection at first.

Tbh if it goes through I am self voting.

While I think this is town, I don't necessarily think this is the right thing to do tbh.

I mean we can always evaluate between you both

[DoctorPepper]

I don't mind disclosing it right away, my concern is that without a flip a good scum team can always use a neighborhood for a claim on why they both TR each other.

These things are easily verifiable. Though my concern for outing a neighborhood right away is that you either made yourselves a target for a NightKill or you'd create a lot of WIFOM as to why neither of you have been targetted for a Nightkill

[DoctorPepper]

There's not much to go off tbh, I don't normally know what to do at like 4 pages and 12 real life hours

[DoctorPepper]

Sometimes I like to think out loud and just voice out that I myself as a player may think that, maybe to give you a bit of info for my motivations in this game as well and help you read me better

P-Edit. DAMMIT, almost

[DoctorPepper]

Catching up tomorrow, been swamped with work and personal stuff. Any reason why we are wagonning gamma?

[DoctorPepper]

I have been prodded. Would love to keep playing but I don't think I can commit due to work being really tense at the moment. But if town would have patience if I can come back in 2 days then I would love to keep being here and catch up.

Else, I will be okay with being replaced if I am ruining the game state

[DoctorPepper]

I mean I can but looking at it with 28 pages in and 12 other players I wanted to ask the game if I'm ruining it for everyone by not being here

[DoctorPepper]

That settles it

V/la til Saturday

Again, sorry team!

[DoctorPepper]

That settles it

V/la til Saturday

Again, sorry team!

Who is this team?

I wrote team because I've been writing emails all day at work but this is kind of a bad post

[DoctorPepper]

So I said I'd catch up but I guess I just had a hard time.

I will say this, if you do decide to lynch me today, please guide me in taking someone down on who you think is scum, will glad my do it with the nature of my role.

[DoctorPepper]

I'll claim my passive role of Vengeful townie

[DoctorPepper]

I mean this is a very verifiable role.

I don't mind being eliminated today if the rest of the town can come to a consensus on who I should venge as well before laying down the hammer.

Changed banned word as per request~Mod

[DoctorPepper]

Sorry, eliminated. Mod, please remove the banned word, apologies for using it

[DoctorPepper]

I don't mind that quite honestly, you'll get rid of my slot (admittedly hard to read) and another suspect slot (2 for 1).

Then you can analyze my wagon tomorrow. We got scum yesterday so we can afford to have a miselim.

I mean you'll just miss out on my night role, but that didn't prove to be helpful last night

[DoctorPepper]

No point in revealing it now

[DoctorPepper]

FL - who am I venging?

[DoctorPepper]

Not to defend NM but I can't read him for shit. He played like this as both alignments in my past 2 games with him.

[DoctorPepper]

Guys, I would actually advocate my elimination today because I think we can use my ability, now that I have claimed scum might want to NK me instead

[DoctorPepper]

But also, I am willing to say that a push on my slot is assuredly scum-initiated. Super easy to just push for the Miselim of the guy who practically disappeared.

[DoctorPepper]

I don't particularly think my NA is useful if I reveal, hence I am withholding that info

[DoctorPepper]

Fair point. Good luck town.

The night action was Modified Watcher (can see how many visited but not who). I felt that revealing that would not have done good.

Anywho, leaning towards NM but open to hearing suggestions

[DoctorPepper]

IRT the Duel, I would like to start off with a read lists from both of the duelists.

Why tho?

The point of the duel was to use both mine and Gaga's abilities, with town leading my gun on the venge so you can get info off of that

[DoctorPepper]

so am I just supposed to

VOTE: DoctorPepper

and say who I would prefer you to venge?

Yes.

[DoctorPepper]

Quite frankly I find this the best use of my utility for town

[DoctorPepper]

I personally think the Not Mafia kill is kinda lazy, and we could have just faded him to begin with if that were the case.

Shooting in Ampharos/KD gives more info and just as likely to hit scum, really

Actually kinda agree with you on this, simply because this is NM's playstyle regardless of alignment and you won't get any info from that venge.

[DoctorPepper]

I mean, for surviving town members, feel free to convince me otherwise.

I just think that an NM venge doesn't do much for town

[DoctorPepper]

I don't think NM is town, I think he is NM. This is how he plays regardless of alignment. In our last game together he turned out being a town PR.

Which leads me to this. I have 24 hours from hammer to decide on my venge.

do not hammer me right away

. I will state who I want to venge in thread. I say we give the person a chance to claim and if we still wanna push through, then hammer and I send my venge vote.

[DoctorPepper]

So, if NM is town, what good would potential wolf FL get from NM not getting shot?

[DoctorPepper]

I’m no music major, but every time Ampharos posts, the villain’s leitmotif starts playing

This got a genuine chuckle.out me, ngl.

I am slowly getting convinced by FL on Amy

[DoctorPepper]

And ifrc, Pepper claimed modified watcher, so I don’t see how getting a possible soft clear on another hood outs PRs.

I would really like to get other people’s opinions on this.

@Pepper, can you please link that NM PR game for us? I really need to read it for myself. Thanks.


~Mars

Here you go

[DoctorPepper]

literally what benefit do i get as scum from buying myself a singular extra day phase

killing

Not_Mafia

of all people

use your head dude

Okay wait this makes complete sense

[DoctorPepper]

For more context, tho not quite helpful, here is NM as scum

[DoctorPepper]

@DrP I want to catch you when you are posting before you shoot tyty.

I have 24 hours from hammer to shoot, we have time.

[DoctorPepper]

Here's where I stand

After reading NM's incredibly long ISO, I can say that the only info you'd get out of him flipping is peace of mind in that your paranoia of his slot will go away.

Town only wants NM because the slot can be such a pain in the ass at Exlo and you don't want that risk.

Starting to see where scum can benefit keeping him alive for that reason but quite honestly I think that a town NM could be useful (in the game I linked, he called the scum team but failed to get us eliminated). When NM gives a shit, he's actually quite good. He called out our scumbuddy day 1 and influenced his vig. He called out my other buddy in day 3 but we got saved by a fake claim. He pivoted my own elimination in day 4.

I'm not opposed to shooting NM. I just think that this is quite a waste of a shot.

[DoctorPepper]

Afaik he was only obv town day 2.

I mean at this point the only thing I see is that NM could be town if he gives a crap about the game, which, noting on his posting now, could be why NM is scum the more I think about it

[DoctorPepper]

and what if DrP doesn't stick to his word? Like, I'd want him to go with consensus, but he's absolutely free to make a judgment call, we will just judge whether it was the right call to make after it happens.

Hey I play with integrity as town.

Scum, well that's a toss up.

Anyway, yes we have 7 days. Don't rush this. My judgement call will be heavily influenced by mob mentality. Treat it as a secondary Elim vote.

[DoctorPepper]

Leaning to shoot NM on the provision that a town NM would care more about the game

But still don't think this is the optimal shot for info

[DoctorPepper]

That's a great role but holy shit if this is a gambit you're living up to your scummy.

[DoctorPepper]

I don't think I ever actually said "cool role" lol

[DoctorPepper]

Okay slowly I'm thinking the shot should be on NM.

If he was town he'd actually give a crap about who to go in this game

[DoctorPepper]

I'm PM Maria on NM tonight (8 hours from now my time) unless anyone has any objections

[DoctorPepper]

Guys, it's 9PM where I'm at and I wanna sleep soon before tomorrow's workday.

Submitting NM. Good luck with Day 3 town!

[DoctorPepper]

So I submitted NM already

[DoctorPepper]

DrP you sure the mod isn't waiting for you to submit your venge in twilight?
Wouldn't hurt to just do it to be safe >_>

I PM'd her

[DoctorPepper]

For safety

Venge Not Mafia

[DoctorPepper]

Well in any case I PM'd my venge anyway and stated in thread. Maybe it's just to give more time for Poorly assessment?

[DoctorPepper]

Pooky*

[DoctorPepper]

and what if DrP doesn't stick to his word? Like, I'd want him to go with consensus, but he's absolutely free to make a judgment call, we will just judge whether it was the right call to make after it happens.

I find it weird that a slot willing to be faded today would lie about who he is venging.

[DoctorPepper]

Can everyone just give me a summary of their primary and secondary venge target so I can weigh my options?

So far I have Venus with Gamma, then NM.


I'm inclined to go NM myself because the NM I played with as town did not stop until scum was eliminated and was so dead on with his reads

[DoctorPepper]

I am oddly conflicted on gamma's defeated state because I do this as town (hell, I did this today)

I mean sure it can easily be faked as scum but more often than not I see town doing so (maybe it's because I've never faked it as scum but always do so as town)

[DoctorPepper]

what if all scum are Devil flavored.

Wouldn't a game of this set up have decent fakeclaims to avoid flavor claiming breaking the game?

[DoctorPepper]

oh no. i have a hard time reading these kind of things

Ditto

[DoctorPepper]

The thing is, both of you act like how I would as town.

[DoctorPepper]

The thing is, both of you act like how I would as town.

What’s Gamma doing that reads townie to you?

~M

The AtE-ing frustration is town me and it happened in my past 2 town games

[DoctorPepper]

A no lynch this early in game is lame.

This wasn't an option?

[DoctorPepper]

Town, I'm shooting NM. I'm a bit worried that the optimal scum play in this situation was to be quiet and allow town discussion to revolve around the venge and not other means of scum hunting.

Too many games I played as town where I tunneled another player and scum was in the background being complacent because they weren't suspected.

My twilight statement is for town to analyze whoever was not actively participating in day 2 for tomorrow's Elim.

I mean sure go for Gamma but I'm worried that this fight allows scum to just stay in the background while town implodes

[DoctorPepper]

I'm allowing FL to hammer for the chance to use his ability?

Honestly find it a bit suspect that you are asking me to self hammer knowing that part of the discussion today revolved around that

[DoctorPepper]

1954 is also quite suspect imo.

Ironically, you're the player I had in mind in my post 1959

[DoctorPepper]

...

I know the right call is to shoot NM but now I really wanna shoot Gamma

[DoctorPepper]

Lemme know if anyone supports this before I submit tomorrow morning (my time)

[DoctorPepper]

I don't like the gambit but would scum brazenly say "Ha, jokes on you I was gambitting" knowing that there is a venge shot

[DoctorPepper]

NM is a no info kill and quite honestly the only reason I'm okay with it is that I know a town NM is more active than this

[DoctorPepper]

Boon, townNM cares about the game and will push for their targets to be eliminated. Was the victim of this play in my last game.

Town NM is a very useful slot for town. Him just disappearing just makes me think he is scum here

[DoctorPepper]

Uhh he hasn't posted for 3 irl days.

And there's a clear difference with his play of don't venge me from what I've seen as town him, who really pushed for his reads to be pushed.

The only reason I'm hesitating is that Gamma right now is Really scummy

[DoctorPepper]

Are you suggesting that I just venge NM to rid town of paranoia

[DoctorPepper]

I really wanna shoot Gamma but NM is the safer choice just so town wouldn't have to waste Day 3 discussing NM's merit

CMV.

[DoctorPepper]

Can you at least make a town case for NM and convince me that this is his town game.

I have very strong feelings on his town game being VERY VERY accurate

[DoctorPepper]

Then discuss the merits of Gamma tomorrow?

I'm a bit worried that if NM stays alive, Day 3 will be exactly like Day 2 wherein town will go "Oh wait NM is alive I can't read him"

Bro, the scum NM I know just allowed himself to be the Elim for the game

Town NM actively states who they think scum is and pushes the wagon there

[DoctorPepper]

I'm shooting NM

A competent town can discuss Gamma's merits tomorrow. I'm worried about town being so lost again because they're letting this NM issue hold them hostage

[DoctorPepper]

If Gamma can get a false inno, then why are we putting so much trust in an investigative on NM?

And in the first place, why do we need an investigative on NM if we can just flip him now.

I would be more apprehensive if I hadn't seen Town NM be a tour de force

[DoctorPepper]

Hey, Boon. Stop tunneling for a second.

If you believe Gamma can be fake inno'd and town believes that then they wouldn't autoclear Gamma and Nancy would be wise not to use their role there.

Conversely, isn't a bus driver given the option who to redirect? I.e. they can choose to redirect other players and not confirm themselves on a gambit.

These arguments take too many assumptions in play where in a competent town can just discuss it?

[DoctorPepper]

If you think Gamma is scum, you gotta convince town, isn't that the point.

You have the Nancy Hydra on Gamma as well and so does BEF.


I'm super concerned right now that you DONT want NM flipped.

I have seen Town NM and this is not

the town NM

that I saw.

[DoctorPepper]

Here's the thing.

I find a discussion on Gamma tomorrow to be more productive because you have more to go off on.

NM? Well half the town will be on him again and since he literally disappeared without reasonable reads, then the discussion fails.

You know why I'm shooting NM?

Town NM would have told me to shoot someone else

Because town NM advocated for the Vig of my scumbuddies in the last game we played together

[DoctorPepper]

Link me to a town and a scum game of NM like I did (you can find it in my ISOs)

ScumNM there is very similar to NM here. Town NM, while having the same posting style, I know realize actually tried to do something

[DoctorPepper]

JFC, Please don't venge me is different from "Venge Gamma/Tris/whoever" instead

[DoctorPepper]

FL, I feel like you've tunneled way too hard and are insisting on this too much.

My recommendation is for you to redirect your energy into a case for Gamma because guess what, you aren't the only one to scum read him and you have the support of BEF and Venus who also think he is scum.

If you say "he can be fake inno'd" then town isn't stupid enough to just take his inno at face value

If you really believe Gamma is scum, you'll get him tomorrow.

I don't want tomorrow to be a whole "we should have venged NM" thing where in town literally spends half the day on their ass fighting about the NM slot

[DoctorPepper]

I'm going to bed. Good luck in the next day phases town

[DoctorPepper]

Don’t fucking shoot Not Mafia.

Laziest fucking surface level shot I’ve ever seen

Yeah, it is.

The problem is you can't refute why NM is town even if I myself believe this isn't NM's town game

And your argument completely removes the context of town being so divided on the slot that they are sure to not agree tomorrow if NM is still alive

And you keep insisting that you won't get Gamma even if you actually have 3 other townies support?

And you keep insisting you are correct even if the town agreed upon shot (yes town, if we eliminated 1 scum and at least 5 townies agree NM is the right move, then highly likely it is town motivated).

The problem i have with you is this insistence that NM can't be scum even if NM isn't even playing towards a town wincon and even if this is NM's playstyle,

Town NM GIVES A SHIT

I think Gamma can be scum. So do a lot of townies. Push him tomorrow. But you acting like Gamma can't be targetted tomorrow and NM has to be saved now is really pinging me the wrong way.

If you're town,

Get a fucking grip

[DoctorPepper]

So if Gamma is town we lose by not shooting him?

Isn't that the same damn logic we are using for NM??

[DoctorPepper]

Your whole logic on shooting Gamma is predicated on your non confidence in reading him.

Ironically, isn't that everyone's contention with NM?

Plus this whole AtE shtick on "Man fuck you guys, I any losing because of you" is giving me major Radiant Cowbell scum game vibes.

Yeah sure townies get manipulated. The problem here is that insisting that is the case without the adequate support for the argument is ironically trying and failing to do the same thing.

You don't win mafia by being all "I'm fucking right and anyone who disagrees is a fucking moron".

[DoctorPepper]

Sure, because I've played against Town NM. Town NM got me and my scumbuddy eliminated and was spot on the third one had he not fakeclaimed and won it for us.

Town NM is useful despite his posting style as of Day 1.

This NM? Day 2 and he disappears after being the primary venge target. Tell me how that's useful

[DoctorPepper]

[Redacted]

FOH with that arrogance

[DoctorPepper]

I'm fucking done

[DoctorPepper]

Flavor leaf, you can fuck right off. Being an arrogant dick doesn't win you mafia

[DoctorPepper]

Man good job town!

Could have been near perfect if I deviated from the NM plan in Day 2 to venge FL which I soooooo badly wanted to do

[DoctorPepper]

Should have trusted my gut that there's no way a role like that exists

[DoctorPepper]

Hmmm, I haven't played in a while so I haven't encountered that role.

[DoctorPepper]

Man good job town!

Could have been near perfect if I deviated from the NM plan in Day 2 to venge FL which I soooooo badly wanted to do

I tried to use that to my advantage because “ScumFL wouldn’t make a vengeful claim mad for no reason” kinda deal.

Lol I fell asleep but I was this close to PM-ing Maria