Silent Star 3: Royalty

[Isis]

I'm not sure it's a 180 when the game shrunk by a ton of slots. Like, the game has changed and shrunk significantly, which is going to trigger recency bias. You're looking for people who are finding footing in this phase and a way for getting a foothold into the game state and building something of value. I kind of haven't. I feel pretty stuck on whether the slot that did the instrumental for scum thing is scum and the game needs to be solved that way, or that slot is the obvtown it seems like. I think I'm more hung up than anyone else because I was townreading Flea more than anyone else.

You reviewed my old wagon participation and gave me credit for it but didn't put your heart into it. It makes sense for someone who's experiencing recency bias. I guess maybe the way your progression seems town indicative to me is it's similar to those times when you can identify confirmation bias in someone that can be clearly distinguished from scum argument from repetition, and it gets you a townread because scum can't experience genuine confirmation bias.

[Isis]

Phone posting is hard, I don't know if this also got into that post as intended, but I feel like I'm also experiencing recency bias and read reset and I remember how Ydrasse's I wanna dance thing is a small thing actually but my mind going "this is the most important thing in the world because everyone else is dead and also scum". So there's a resonance thing too?

[Isis]

I’m so confused rn. I don’t want to be pocketed again especially by Pooky but Infinty is making sense but Ydrasse doesn’t sound scummy to me and I’ve been tr Isis all game.

I'm in a similar boat except I have a perfect record not getting pocketed by Pooky and I'm afraid for breaking the streak

[Isis]

How come no one uses doctor emoji btw it's so underrated

[Isis]

Man I liked Jessie's last post
Everyone is town.
Except for the six

[Isis]

Pooky’s sorting of flea here feels really genuine though and they are digging flea out of a hole if they’re scum and fae is town.

also did it actually feel like pooky was doing this to anyone else? like pooky said pooky was doing this, and infinity then used pooky's exact words more or less, but it did not feel like pooky was doing this to me, at least up until the post in which pooky said, actually

this

is what i'm doing

I don't think the characterization is very natural or intuitive no. I didn't remember Pooky using the shovel metaphor when I read it though, I just saw Infinity say "dig faer out of the whole" and thought "that's a rather grandiose term for talking to faer".

[Isis]

I'm not sure it's a 180 when the game shrunk by a ton of slots. Like, the game has changed and shrunk significantly, which is going to trigger recency bias. You're looking for people who are finding footing in this phase and a way for getting a foothold into the game state and building something of value. I kind of haven't. I feel pretty stuck on whether the slot that did the instrumental for scum thing is scum and the game needs to be solved that way, or that slot is the obvtown it seems like. I think I'm more hung up than anyone else because I was townreading Flea more than anyone else.

You reviewed my old wagon participation and gave me credit for it but didn't put your heart into it. It makes sense for someone who's experiencing recency bias. I guess maybe the way your progression seems town indicative to me is it's similar to those times when you can identify confirmation bias in someone that can be clearly distinguished from scum argument from repetition, and it gets you a townread because scum can't experience genuine confirmation bias.

Grr yeah but you do look worse compared to everyone else besides flea imo, like yeah you were on dunn but you were the second vote when he wasn't in real danger. Drunk misplay is not something I'm discounting either. But it's like you're here and putting effort in but not emotionally engaged at all like you were on d1. And there's a million little tiny things now but maybe when I come back I'll say I was stupid but I don't think so.

Ok take a break take a break

Why would being on Dunn be to my credit at all? I townread him day 2 and townread him up until Hectic said he was scum.

The thought that I was emotionally engaged on day 1 but am not now is weird cause my alignement should be the same? Are you thinking out loud about things that you know aren't dispositive, or noticing something different and feeling it

must

be dispositive

[Isis]

im very drunksleepy but i want to come look at this game

before betime i have lots PAD errands active this week

[Isis]

i opened dunnstral's iso to tyr to find magic associatives but it made me feel bad for not scumreading dunnstral before ig ot very far

[Isis]

jessie earlier in the game you said you don't want plurality elim to decide any elims. I don't play many offsite games but I was alive in an offsite game at the time with plurality lims in effect and the players were saying stuff about how letting the game go to plurality had some hammertesty dynamics and could be kind of information rich. It also had RNG tiebreakers (lol) but it sounded like that wasn't strictly the basis for plurality elims being good.

I feel more able to speak franker about it now that the game ended, could you explain why plurality elims feel bad to you? Skimming your iso and seeing the TGP vote is what made the topic come to mind so that context is what I'd like to hear the most step by step for

[Isis]

I would like a neighborhood with Pooky if I could be convinced he deserves to be dancing to begin with. Pairs get neighborhoods right?

I like the way he is sorting Ydrasse

What about it?

Yeah pairs get neighborhoods

"what about it?" was probably about the sorting huh

I read this as "yeah pairs get neighborhoods, what aout it" the firts time

[Isis]

im dozing in chair
i cant i want
tomrrow
i have less errands tomrrow for please
this game is fun
is hould sleep now, i daydreamed for 9 minutes instead of backreading more

i want to backread nexttt Ydrasse

[Isis]

Isis why didn't you move your vote all of the last day before the deadline?

Hopkirk was the elimination I wanted

[Isis]

why did you want to eliminate Hopkirk ?

why didn't you try to get any of us to vote for Hopkirk during the last 18ish hours before deadline?

I didn't feel like I could articulate my point further. I wasnt current on the thread during the last few hours, I liked the break. It was plurality so I didn't need to worry about no-elim or anything

[Isis]

Assume scum split themselves (most likely):
Pooky + Ydrasse.

Why isn't it Pooky+Jessie? You said you don't think her approach to the game seems townie to you all day 1 and 2, and to me this phase has been more of the same from Jessie while Ydrasse's play is a marked improvement.

[Isis]

Have I had the math for deadline plurality on evens wrong? If fae voted Gypx at the end, Hopkirk still would have died because the Hopkirk wagon reached it's strength first?

[Isis]

Flea why didn't you answer 3165?

[Isis]

Pingy things

I'm the soda can someone forgot in her backpack
that she probably should've given to her mom
before she went on the rollercoaster ride.
And she just decided to crack me open to "see what would happen".

An hour ago I thought it would be a good idea to take a nap in a metal suit
under an 100-pound brick
and as I dig my elbows into my mattress to push myself up,
I realize I may have done it a liitle bit too forcefully.

I'm the person who went down the dimly lit horror movie hallway
the one with the reassembling cobwebs
and something cold and needly just pricked the back of my neck.
Before I can finish turning around, acute tingly shudders morph
into an expansive, almost bottomless darkness centered in my stomach.
It speaks with the weight of absolute certainty.
This is how I die.
Isis is scum.

Why would you feel bad about scumreading me? You haven't ever seemed like someone who particularly likes me or anything.

[Isis]

Assume scum split themselves (most likely):
Pooky + Ydrasse.

Why isn't it Pooky+Jessie? You said you don't think her approach to the game seems townie to you all day 1 and 2, and to me this phase has been more of the same from Jessie while Ydrasse's play is a marked improvement.

I really think me and jessie are literally just a play style clash. Ydrasse has done nothing but lurk.

Given the 4 stumped players were lurkers...

After that first elimination, with 6 scum against 5 town, there was no pressure for them. Ydrasse made a whole lot of promises and didn't come back in phase 2, same as gypyx was doing.

Now the pressures on.

Now she's here.

m
it’s frustrating the flea is saying stuff like this while also saying that fae didn’t want to go after lurkers/lhf honestly. also it’s a weird way to lead into me being scum by saying other people were lurking i guess, like setting up a precedent for it or Whatever (i’m too tired to try and verbalize this better especially from mobile)

I townread this post, it's paranoid. I don't think it's a particularly strong point actually but it seems like one actually conceived while having the appropriate alignment to the argument.
I scumread Ydrasse a bit the first part of this phase but I think she's breaking her scumrange.
Ydrasse do you wanna dance with me?
I love to leash things and break things but I have a human element that wants to play with the fun mechanic, too.

[Isis]

If I was trying to jump the queue I would have bolded something. Ydrasse's opinion is part of consensus for what that's worth.

Pooky understands leashing and breaking strategies as well as I do. I don't really like the implication he doesn't. He just cares more about sidequests than I do, to put it one way.

pedit: I still don't understand the sinking feeling, I don't think I usually feel "sinking feeling" when I slip into scumreading someone so this is coming off weird to me. It could be a personality thing and a hazardous way of reading you though.
I had an opinion that I was good at scum last year but between winning free money scumsided setups and losing rigged-for-town setups all year I have a distorted sense of whether I'm good at scum or not.

[Isis]

I'm pretty sure Dunnstral could predict that I don't lolhammer Gypyx during that phase of the game with a game-betting degree of confidence, but I'd agree that a green Flea has a very strong clearing effect for Infinity.

pedit: I feel pinged by Infinity, the line about Pooky wasn't AI, I still have you as town

[Isis]

Townlean

[Isis]

Isis’s read progression this day phase has been...not good.

I liked your sig better when I thought it said flamethrower

also, how should my read progression be different? Should I be scumreading you?

[Isis]

I think if I get scumpings about one of my townreads, being transparent about my thoughts gives the town the best chance to sort me accurately, it's one of the axes where I can do things that are harder for me to do as scum.

When Gloria asked me which person I "scumread" I specifically changed the wording to clarify it was a ping.

I guess technically it can be a scum indicative read progression to not be so neckdeep in confirmation bias that you just townread everything from a person since confbias is more likely for town, but that'd be specific cases and not the general case

[Isis]

Townlean

I'm scared Isis

Are you scum?

I keep having vacillating thoughts about this game and it's kind of disappointing.

I have this stupid thought that I want to townlock Ydrasse for her goodposting today because that would tie back to the post she made a long time ago back when scum had less control of the game that I really townread. There were 3 times as many scum then yet I felt surer about being able to pick out one person who must be scum.

I similarly want to townlock Flea's crazy d1-2 posting and just yeet the people with the scummiest opinions about the hammer and solve the game that way.

[Isis]

Pooky understands leashing and breaking strategies as well as I do. I don't really like the implication he doesn't. He just cares more about sidequests than I do, to put it one way.

This "line" is not AI for anyone, I was saying, @Gloria

[Isis]

Are you scum?

You should know I'm pretty far outside my scumrange.

You feel outside your scumrange but there's not enough players in the game for everyone who has projected town to me to actually be town. :/

[Isis]

I don't scumread him for saying that. It's fun to ask people if they're scum because it doesn't actually matter if they say yes or no

[Isis]

Dunnstral are you scum?

[Isis]

I don't scumread him for saying that. It's fun to ask people if they're scum because it doesn't actually matter if they say yes or no

I think it matters

Do you think people are more likely to answer honestly or more likely to answer backwards?

[Isis]

I hope you have something more you've tried to read into besides my read of you, because if that marathon is going to extend into a meta of always scumreading me whenever I misread you, that's kind of boring/lame/unfun etc.

[Isis]

For you to be town, it would require another deepwolf on the Gyp wagon and it's hard for me to see another one past ydrasse.

Is this saying you townread Flea?

[Isis]

It's ok Ydrasse. I love tryhards. I don't know why I'm UTR some games and not others but it's pretty clear this isn't one

[Isis]

I agree that it's very very likely there was scum on the Hopkirk wagon, but it's not me.
The straightforward answer is to pick the person with the theatrical lolhammer

[Isis]

I'm townreading everybody
Someone hold me

[Isis]

I need to step away from the computer for a bit

[Isis]

It's relieving that Jessie gets me about the lolhammer thing.

I don't know if she's the type to figure those sorts of things out from a scum vantage point and then share them anyway. I think she could be.

[Isis]

Why do you townread her? I would prefer to townread her, I think she's the only player in the game not scumreading me? I just haven't gotten any large townpings from her this game :/

[Isis]

I want Ydrasse to be one of the dancers, please at least give me that.

[Isis]

Jessie would totally be capable of bussing me if we were scum together.
She's a queen
pedit: no one in this game feels like a conspirator. When you ask me that with a townish phrasing I want to say no >_<

[Isis]

Isis/jessie could make sense, isis’s read on ydrasse feels very genuine even if isis is scum.

Um, pardon??

[Isis]

Like I don’t get how the isis/ydrasse thing is a slip? Scum can have genuine TRs on townies but not their buddies. That’s it.

You’re saying scum!Isis is sincerely townreading Ydrasse. Why would you think scum!Isis is sincerely townreading anyone?

Uh, she’s detecting towny qualities in ydrasse’s play and posting them? Which is pretty easy to do if you know someone is town?

Have you heard of TMI townreading? Do you just not believe in it, or, what

[Isis]

As long as we elim isis today, I’m ok with most pairings.

"I don't care about the investigative setup mechanic" seems incompatible with "I peeked Isis' rolecard but I have literally no idea who her partner is"

[Isis]

Gloria you should go ahead and ask Ydrasse to dance

[Isis]

Have you heard of TMI townreading? Do you just not believe in it, or, what

Not sure what this means

"too much information" townreading, presenting a townread with weak points presented as though they are strong, skewed by having a red rolecard and knowing the conclusion is correct. Or even just weak points without the overconfidence can be scummy too. Like bad analysis is scummy even (perhaps especially?) if the conclusions are correct.

Gloria is adopting the conventional school of thought that townread analyses are sortable. That's how most people play.
Identifying valid points for townreading someone, that can be grasped without omniscience, should generally be townread.

[Isis]

As long as we elim isis today, I’m ok with most pairings.

"I don't care about the investigative setup mechanic" seems incompatible with "I peeked Isis' rolecard but I have literally no idea who her partner is"

What? I don’t know who your partner is, so I can’t be confident in almost anyone being town. I also just think the people that aren’t dancing are the people who are likely to be limmed later anyway, so it’s a benefit to town no matter what.

It's a low utility effect, but you're saying you don't think the game is EZ, so you should be scrabbling for those

[Isis]

I think I might be flipping my TRQ<->Infinity sort.

Which maybe means my favorite dance 4 is the same as Jessie's now, Isis/Gloria/Ydrasse/Jessie

I don't know how much any of that matters.

It's mostly Jessie seeming townie rather than Infinity seeming scummy.

[Isis]

I'm aware I'm likely actually getting a grave but it is hard for me to list 4 players I'm excited about seeing dancing unless I get to list myself

[Isis]

the 4 people who left were pretty scummy in a way that #5 and #6 don't have to be "deepwolf" quality, but #5 and #6 are kind of "deepwolf" quality in the sense that everyone has played a pretty good game and I don't think anyone is obvscum

[Isis]

Jessie are you tinfoiling that that is the vocab used in the scum PT?

[Isis]

The more jessie posts the more I want to TR her too so idgi

I don’t understand why she thinks Isis should be in the fourth spot. @Isis can you do something to prove to me you’re town here?

I think if I had, I would have already done it. I try to be transparent throughout the game so that people can see I'm town and the vast majority of the time that's what happens, but sometimes it doesn't. I'm surprised this wasn't one of those times after having such a mixture of reconsidering things and being sure albeit wrong about others but really it's just a lesson about one of the tenets I hold that it's generally a Dunning Kruger exercise to predict whether people will townread you.

I'd really calm me down about how poorly the game is going if you'd at least dance with Ydrasse. Look at it this way:
-If I am town, I am I would like to think, a decent player, and Ydrasse is the townread I'm most sure about at the moment
-If I am evil lying scum tricking you into dancing with my scumpartner you get 2 different chances to eliminate Ydrasse for it.

[Isis]

I don't know what I would have to gain from that

[Isis]

I am not ok with eliminating Isis if she is green.

I am green
< look

[Isis]

VC on this page.

Ydrasse trying to solve if she's scum with me is hilarious and probably just Also Town

[Isis]

I will be so devastated if i misexec you

can you please do that thing you do when you need to show me you're good?

We've only been T-T in Matrix Decipher. I don't know for sure what made you townread me in that game. I looked it up and it looked like you switched when I made a post about how special mafia is because of learning about others and stuff, in the abstract.

This has been a really cool f7 and I think it exemplifies the beauty of mafia.

Flea has this mix of spurts of effort and spurts of levity I don't see much, and you see faer solving with just a couple of pieces everyone else takes as a given but because fae doesn't take it as a given, the results are so different, like a butterfly effect, and it's wonderful.

Gloria has been constantly retrying theories all game even if it means abandoning her past theories. She's always willing to wait and talk with someone and check if the hunch she's thinking about makes sense, picking out people she trusts. It's fun to watch. Her willingness to reassess keeps me from thinking this game is doomed even though it feels scum controlled.

Infinity has done his thingamajig distributing 324 credit points to people for good or bad past things they've done and I think you can tell he has a pretty additive and subtractive approach to assessing players, I think.

Pooky is funny because he keeps trying to corner himself into conclusions instead of finding them with drawing the wagons or asking people to convince him things. Yet another style

Jessie has intermittently recognized things about the game I agree with and posited things that don't make sense to me. Her logic is super different from mine and it's beautiful

Ydrasse has kept trying to read the game like it's a moodring that she can figure out from the color being off at the wrong times. Then at the same time wearing her vibes on her sleeve

I kinda wanted to post about what a lobby this earlier in relation to something else.

I agree this game is crazy.

[Isis]

Poox
Do you want a handstand?

[Isis]

Gloria why do you think Ydrasse is scummy?

[Isis]

(Dunn/MT/Gyp/Skitter30/maybe Isis) POE

I favor Jessie dancing now tho

[Isis]

also i don't understand how you are treating me saying two conspirators in {flea, infinity, isis, pooky} as me townreading isis. i just think she is in less worlds than flea and pooky. and my most recent suggestion for the dance pairings was me/you/ydrasse/infinity

I think Pooky/Flea are very obviously town and I thought a lot about why Isis was pushing Ydrasse so hard and I think it was either to set her up for an eventual frame or paranoia us out of keeping her out of the dance pairs so that we can blame her for when presumably Infinity gets NK’d? Idk but something is definitely up with that and I think what Infinty said about it being a sincere read would fit that.

I want Ydrasse to dance because I townread her

Maybe if you have to devise extremely complicated explanations for my behavior for me to be scum, it means I'm not actually scum!?!?!

It's irritating how often I see all of you playing with the pieces you need to solve my slot correctly but then don't actually do it.

Like people trapped in a dungeon cell using a set of keys to try to scoop dirt out from the floor and try to burrow under the wall.

It's saddest for Pooky to be doing it.

[Isis]

it is somehow 'jessie is brilliant' which somehow ignores all of the evidence

fwiw I do think you're wrong a lot, my lobby summary post was meant to imply that.

[Isis]

Jessie is making me feel guilty.
It does feel bad when I think of slots differently based on which alignments I think they're good at
But I think it'd be playing against wincon to ignore stuff like that when it pops into my head
Sorry

[Isis]

I don't really know how to interact with a game that's this confbiased at this point. Like when it's reached the point when I just ask that one of the -four- slots be used for -one- person to hedge against miselimming me, Infinity goes "Isis' Ydrasse townread is really smart, and even if Isis is scum Ydrasse is definitely town. Oh by, the way, deadline is soon and everyone -else- should come up with dance pairs hyuk hyuk. I can't think of anyone that would be a mechanically correct dancer hyuk hyuk. Sure hope obvtown Gloria doesn't posit a dance4 that excludes Ydrasse again for us to go with teehee"
like did no one else notice this.

i tried to word that to be more coherent but I couldn't.
I was a lot more confident this would be a town W earlier in this phase and I'm losing that confidence, but the less I feel like I'm even being treated fairly and the more people seem to be getting away with (Flea and Pooky in their own ways, not just Infinity) I just increasingly want to throw my hands up and say what do

[Isis]

Pooky "remorse" AtEing while you keep pushing with your ears closed is not reevaluating a read, and I don't know why you think I'd be gullible enough to treat it that way.

[Isis]

Why didn't you put yourself in your preferred 4? Do you want everyone to do a self-excluded preferred 4? I guess maybe that's best if you want to be mathy about it?
Gloria Ydrasse Pooky Jessie

pedit: It's arduous to try to tell the difference between town AtE and scum AtE, but if one wanted to try, I think one way would be pointing out that someone who "was happy I'm scum" switched to "my soul is hurt too" when it was pocketier to do so.

[Isis]

It's not about your alignment Pooky

This is either your towngame or your emulated towngame and either way "oh I feel so badz about it" instead of "reason X might be a reason to reevaluate this" is just AtE instead of actually further delving into the game to see if something is accurate. It's not actually divorced from how you play as town, but it's a gullibility in the sense that you're acting like you did any due diligence owed before miselimming me out of a narrow playerlist and no I'm not going to treat that as a due dilligence

[Isis]

Infinity why would you be bothered by AtE from a slot you think is scum? That's not how it works.

[Isis]

I don't mind getting mis-elimmed, people make mistakes, it's all a part of mafia. I don't like getting miselimmed and getting blamed for being miselimmed, and 3611 does that in a roundabout way, so it frustrates me.

I'm one of the last people making games about AtE (Haunted Village was pretty special because when you're hardguiltied you're kind of forced to make the game, erm, not about the game?) but I don't think I should have to censor all of my frustrations just because someone in the game is in my fan club

[Isis]

Infinity why would you be bothered by AtE from a slot you think is scum? That's not how it works.

Yes it is

You’re scum but I feel bad about limming you anyway

Hmm
maybe you're just weird. I was hardguiltied in HV, did you really feel bad?
I usually feel bad if there's a small chance the person is town, but when I'm locksure someone is scum it just stops affecting me.

[Isis]

Yeah I really felt bad in haunted village, I felt a little more bad because the setup was unfair to you but

Every time I read a post in a mafia game I’m forced to consider the possibility it comes from town even if I’m 100% that it doesn’t

THAT SETUP AUUUUGH lol

[Isis]

isis can you just tell me a story where we are both town? who are the bad guys? what happened yesterday?

I don't know the scumteam for sure, but as an example, it could be Infinity/Flea. Infinity had good standing all game and could have insisted on having a good voting record. When I started pushing Hopkirk they jumped on to carry an organic town on town wagon forward and expected it to collect enough extra townies for it to be easy. Infinity hopped onto the Hopkirk wagon and hopped off again at "key moment" to act like he was organically changing stances but actually his original vote was just "lolidk sheeping Isis". When it didn't seem like Ydrasse was going to vote Hopkirk Flea lolhammered Hopkirk. They'd planned to send two offwagon players to this phase I bet (maybe an offwagon Tweet at some point?) but for sending an onwagon player Flea was the best pick because fae is so flighty characteristically and Tweet and Dunnstral made uncharacteristically flighty flips, and skitter should just know better really. Skitter probably should have been sent to this phase no matter who the scumteam is actually and she probably asked not to go cause she dislikes scum, but when she plays scum she tends to win anyways.

The Infinity/Flea scumteam doesn't really care that much whether Flea dies, I don't think, and has been playing this phase in a way that focuses on Infinity endgaming, with Flea being kind of lolcatty earlier in the phase. It would be consistent with Infinity being noncommital about stuff like dances and committing to a scumread on me about when it was pretty safe. But then like halfway through this phase Infinity realized oh I am gonna get the miselim on the main Flea detractor and could just sweep and started going for townreading his partner.

Something like that would be an example story if you're town, that's currently my favorite team

[Isis]

Dunnstral started reminding me of Forest Fire in a way that made me feel survivor's guilt about that game. I think I didn't read him in a way that was properly free of bias this game.

[Isis]

Name your 4 for dances people, no self-voting.

I'm going to assume Ydrasse isn't going to appear or contribute to this.

Also Gloria don't pull a DC again.

Ayla, Crono, Lucca, Frog

[Isis]

I think you've gotten me wrong, Gloria, but I think you're making an honest mistake so no hard feelings about it.

[Isis]

Why reject Ydrasse if you think she's town?

pedit: just my alignment if you think I'm scum. I didn't have any points of fact in mind or anything

[Isis]

Isis why do you care so much that people scumread you but not gloria?

I think I was similarly meh about how Ydrasse chose to sort my slot. I don't think the anomaly you're positing exists

[Isis]

Isis why do you care so much that people scumread you but not gloria?

I think I was similarly meh about how Ydrasse chose to sort my slot. I don't think the anomaly you're positing exists

Infinity/Ydrasse makes no sense for the same reason that Infinity/Jessie doesn’t.

Infinity is saying I don't care how you read my slot, but that I don't care how anyone else doesn't read my slot. I'm saying Ydrasse is at least one other person where I don't care a lot. My post isn't an Ydrasse scumread, I have Ydrasse as town.

[Isis]

@3681: Did ydrasse ever SR you? You’ve put in quite a bit of effort to convince me and pooky you’re town, though I can maybe understand it with pooky, the contrast is really stark

Ydrasse nullread me last we talked best I remember. I think if I was scum I would put more effort into convincing her to become an Isis stan instead of trying to convince someone who scumreads me so much they're writing poetry about it? Anyway, I don't remember caring about anyone's read of me more than anyone else's except Pooky a little bit. I think I've just been playing the game.

pedit: I still want Ydrasse paired. I'm pretty disappointed you've refused to make a Gloria-Ydrasse pair exactly but she should be in the 4.

[Isis]

I'd pair with him, but he wouldn't pair with me, which is ironic

[Isis]

0.0

[Isis]

When i play keyforge you are supposed to collect 6 aember gems and use them to "construct" a key

The pieces for the game gives you little round pieces and tell you to swap away six of them and take this big round thing to "construct" the key but that seems more like borrowing

I don't use those pieces and always use legos and once I get up to 6 loose legos I snap them all together to build something that I call the key

I always put them in a different shape each time

[Isis]

I've finally started designing a closed game a month ago and I blame Jessie for convincing me to want to do that （╹ェ╹）

[Isis]

I don't know if any of what you're commiserating about is upsetting me, but you didn't upset me earlier with the stuff about me reading each player differently

[Isis]

Er, you differently from other players

[Isis]

I'm pretty sympathetic for the reasons for not killing Dunn especially if you've played with him before so this doesn't feel like the alchemy that solves the game to me.

[Isis]

I mean if you look at how much I pounded the table on killing dunn when he was at 5 votes at end of D1 I don't really think you can make the argument that I was trying to "bus" him or faking it?

Are you serious?
Your push was entirely constituted of joke reasons like that he called me sweaty. It looks exactly like a fake push should look.
There's not much beyond that you were voting there.

[Isis]

The votecount chart image thing is blurry

[Isis]

I'm also frustrated that no one is dancing

[Isis]

Do eeeet

[Isis]

This looks like openwolfing ☆(❁‿❁)☆

[Isis]

I hate when I can't find a face that exactly captures my mood

[Isis]

Infinity why did you do Nothing Literally to be involved with pairing decisions

I keep harping on it but you do lots of things I can see both ways but that still feels super out of place for me and like it's something the town people have shown an organic interest in.

Posting after they are made to criticize them is super scummy when you were sufficiently present to naked vote me

[Isis]

I understand your reason btw Gloria and I agree with it, it just doesn't ping my soul the same way. A gloria-isis bus did seem farfetch'd

[Isis]

I wish isis was town here because I’m sure she would see what I’m seeing. She even wrote this about hopkirk:

After reading the rest of the game I still want Hopkirk. The rest of the pages of the game are full of other people, townier than him, identifying players in the game they don't plan on voting ever or for a long, long time. Even skidder. Even Ydrasse. Hopkirk is playing this game with the flexibility to vote literally anyone and although Infinity also reconsiders and socratic methodifies people it's much more genuine.

You're kind of making a point here.

I'm mulling over this.

[Isis]

It was wrong about Hopkirk because something was messed up with his motivation level for this game I think.

[Isis]

Infinity is making me feel a little hypocritical cause Gloria's read progression is pretty jerky. It just, is usually like her enthusiasm makes them seem ok?

[Isis]

hoopla

hoopla is one of my favourite players and she is also the best and team mafia makes very little sense to me because hoopla wanted a team and hoopla wanted a fun team and hoopla is not playing even though she is the best

Jessie visualize me thinking of you the way you think of Hoopla
♥(ˆ⌣ˆԅ)

[Isis]

Gloria why'd you take so long to dance with Ydrasse?

[Isis]

You should probably put flipped scum on ignore

I always like seeing pictures of my cats though

[Isis]

Maybe it's Gloria/Flea . Gloria having practice seeming earnest does make some sense. If I actually lined the positions up in a line and set aside her bubbliness in presenting them, they'd look even worse than Infinity's.

[Isis]

To be clear, Morning Tweet and I are the ones who are engaged.

[Isis]

Maybe it's Gloria/Flea . Gloria having practice seeming earnest does make some sense. If I actually lined the positions up in a line and set aside her bubbliness in presenting them, they'd look even worse than Infinity's.

Okay, I’m really paranoiang on you now. No one who is town and in their right mind after reading those Pooky/me quotes from yesterday could possibly believe I’m scum here.

I came into the day being a but pananoid on Pooky for not accepting my dance request but I see I was obviously right and that we made the right choice with the pairings.

I am town here @Isis and if you are too, then I swear to you I’m never scum here and if you are also town, I’m extremely disappointed in you for doubting me here.

I think you could be scum. Do you mean real life yesterday or day 2?

[Isis]

All I remember about yesterday is that you're kind of townreading Pooky in a way that feels really pockety at this point, the way I'd expect you to play if you rolled scum in a game with him.

[Isis]

Dance with Pooky

[Isis]

I’m really really hurt that Isis is buying Scumfinity’s gaslighting push on me. I don’t want to be wrong on you @Isis.

He's started making sense and in a way the two of you are similar, leaping to different things where I don't follow the leaps, and he's making me introspective on whether the reasons I gave him more grief for it over you was fair.

[Isis]

Gloria-Flea makes some sense. Their interactions have kinda seemed weird all game.

[Isis]

I’m really really hurt that Isis is buying Scumfinity’s gaslighting push on me. I don’t want to be wrong on you @Isis.

If Isis thinks I’m scum making this post, that’s a definite scumclaim. She knows I would never do that as scum.

You could definitely post that as scum. Why couldn't you?

[Isis]

VOTE: Flea

[Isis]

It doesn't really seem outside your range

[Isis]

I

did

notice it earlier myself, but her presentation is why I didn't ever bother to treat it seriously and the way of thinking about her presentation made some sense to me.

Like, appearing very earnest is just kind of intrinsic to her? When she rolls scum, does it turn off? I am not sure I would actually expect it to.

[Isis]

Why would I comment on things I don't think are alignment dispositive

[Isis]

I don't know how often you'd townread comments about "X is anomalous but not scummy" but if that's something you can read maybe I should have commented idk

[Isis]

I know you well enough to know that you'd go to great lengths to win. You're allowed to AtE as scum.

[Isis]

I don't know how I would pick out some things you would never do as scum when I've never seen you play scum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Isis]

Infinity's avatar reminds me of shellyc's now so I'm doing the thing where I associate it with a scum reputation and default scumread him (๑ ˊ͈ ᐞ ˋ͈ )ƅ̋

[Isis]

Blame Flea! The Magician!

[Isis]

I believe fae has describer faerself as chaotic neutral if we're going by the 3x3 chart

[Isis]

(✿◠‿◠)
This is one of the prettiest ones, I almost wanna sig it

[Isis]

VOTE: Gloria

[Isis]

VOTE: Flea

[Isis]

Pooky you know the point I was making

I again feel like you're either being scum or being unreasonable.

Probably unreasonable given the whole course of the day.

[Isis]

I was showing how Gloria voting someone without explaining her switch more thoroughly was silly. I don't think it was super alignment indicative, just silly.

The person to eliminate from Hopkirk's wagon is Flea, not me.
Faer vote was just objectively the least well positioned.
Faer AtE was the "good rich stuff" today yeah but fae resorted to it earlier than really necessary which is kind of one of those scumfession things.
I've already player my town game Pooky I don't know what you want me to show you.

[Isis]

I'm not concerned about the deadline.

My vote is kind of empty, Flea and Pooky both seem like town that have to flip scum for the game to make sense.

[Isis]

That's not exactly true. I wanted to see Ydrasse and Gloria paired really early because I felt very strongly that was the best play, and I wanted to work from there. If the subsequent pairing was slower I would have been ok about it.

And for infinity wanting to see dances resolved early there's some actions speak louder than words there

[Isis]

You can townread Infinity if you want to I'm not positive he's scum. Either way his desire to see dances resolved early wasn't genuine
pedit: eh i won't pedit

[Isis]

I'm trying to regulate my emotions a lot though

Tweet is not helping

[Isis]

VOTE: Infinity

[Isis]

that's maybe part of skitter scum playstyle but it doesn't fit mine as much.

Infinity is a good lim, still the most likely offwagon scum over Gloria.

[Isis]

Gloria if we flip Infinity red you become clear.

I'm sorry for suspecting you please revote.

I just don't read AtE very well

I think the way you're cooperating with people is townie

[Isis]

It's a clear because it's so unlikely there's 2 scum offwagon

I think most everyone is operating under that paradigm Infinity

[Isis]

Like if I decide to tinfoil doublescum offwagon it's probably not gonna include someone who has townspewed as much as Gloria

[Isis]

I mean I still have a mixed read on you but talking about my doubts is not going to get you to cooperate with me on Infinity >_>
Glass half full

[Isis]

My offwagon reads is Infinity<Gloria<Ydrasse=Jessie

You are towny when compared to Infinity but scummy if Infinity does flip town.
You are also townier than Flea and Pooky

[Isis]

Ydrasse is playing to her town meta a lot.
She is vibing
Ydrasse has less possibility of an agenda

[Isis]

Based on day 1 you're super townie, everyone in this game if this was a normal game I feel like I would be townreading :/

[Isis]

I think Ydrasse is more of a flash+ignite lady
pedit: I'm not scum with Ydrasse because I'd be giddier
Also we'd probably dance
pedit: no after Infinity's flip we will re-evaluate.
You would have a chance to prove that your townness
We'd have another full day instead of twenty minutes

[Isis]

I'm not scum with anybody (⇀⼼_↼)

[Isis]

Infinity

[Isis]

are you saying the middle part looks like a heart, it's supposed to be a grimacing face with a nose I think

[Isis]

:0
I did it by accident so you know I'm good
pedit: Dunn wasn't under that much pressure d1, I don't think that was a big deal.
I should maybe be more grateful for being towncased I guess
I'm used to getting townread as town and take it for granted sometimes?

[Isis]

All's well that ends well
VOTE: Flea

[Isis]

¶

Votecount 3.0.5

[1] Flea The Magician:

Flea The Magician

[6] Not Voting:

Isis, Ydrasse, Infinity 324, Gloria Cleary, PookyTheMagicalBear, team rocket queen

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to launch. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2020-12-17 19:22:19).

Ydrasse asks Gloria Cleary to dance.

Gloria Cleary asks PookyTheMagicalBear to dance.

Joint Mod ISO

[Isis]

You have to dive into reasons an AtE is more likely to come from town than scum, Pooky.

You can't just say "wow there's so much of it".

[Isis]

I don't think any of the AtE was unsporting. I think being able to go without AtE leads to a more consistent reliable scumgame though.

[Isis]

There is lots of fun in mafia in the analytic unemotional parts too

[Isis]

Jessie is one of my favorite mafia players up there with Sujimichi and Hectic

[Isis]

Lulu is wonderful

[Isis]

I believe "infinity" is a noun of direct address there, that's who she's talking to, not what "it" "was". Fae is agreeing about faer fall from UTR being frustrating

[Isis]

unless you're saying Flea played godawful but I don't think fae did. But I know you were unhappy with Infinity's play

[Isis]

Sorry for misgendering

[Isis]

Everyone is having a shared delusion that dancers can't be scum or something

[Isis]

I townread everybody in one way or another but the best way I can make sense of the game right now is that Jessie was playing gambler with asking town!Ydrasse to pick whoever she wanted to push yesterday, and that Jessie is the last scum. I don't want to think about who it is if it's not Jessie because I don't even want to think about it being Jessie

[Isis]

(/ω＼)

[Isis]

hi can i get a tldr of what’s goin on?

yes you are about to place a blind vote on flea, infinity or isis

[Isis]

isis, do you think this:

VOTE: dunstal

go away sweaty

was a reference to this:

you posted a meme of me as a sweaty mafia thoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

?

I didn't remember this post
<_<
>_>
Possibly I guess

[Isis]

I don't understand why I would clear everyone but Pooky and Gloria.

[Isis]

My PoE from my perspective is I want to flip Jessie and Pooky, and either one can get mad at me for feeling like they had a better relationship with Flea than the other, I guess. I don't really view Jessie's interactions with Flea as clearing, maybe if I was good at mafia I would.

It didn't seem like anything that couldn't be bussing.

I still feel like this game would make more sense if Infinity had flipped red, the way Gloria says. I've made some mistake in the way I think about this game, somewhere. There's lots of reasons Jessie shouldn't really be scum either. Like.. she hasn't been very manipulative all game, she's done very little to make this game one where either Jessie or Flea survive to the end.

I wish I was NKed

[Isis]

Everyone except you has townspewed more, Jessie. That's the most of it. Like, even the whole letting Ydrasse pick anyone thing is probably townish on balance, but you're competing with every other slot having done very townie things.


As for thinking scum was in the pairs, I don't remember the exact comment being characterized, but probabilistically from my PoV there was scum in the pairs >90% of the time. I'm not actually confident enough in my solving that I thought Flea and Infinity seeming like the scummier slots from the game completely flipped that on its head.

[Isis]

Like, even the whole letting Ydrasse pick anyone thing is probably townish on balance, but you're competing with every other slot having done very townie things.

but i ended up picking, so the letting ydrasse pick thing as reason i am a conspirator didn't make sense to me either

I was reasoning out loud how you could still be conspirator in spite of it, it's something overall town indicative. I was thinking out loud. I maybe wasn't very clear

[Isis]

His reaction to Flea kind’ve mirrors my reaction to Infinity.

i do not think so. your reaction was to say infinity was bad because he was suspicious of you, which doesn't make sense to me because one mistake doesn't determine someone's goodness or badness and it also makes it very difficult to come to the correct conclusion on your slot if you are town because you are not addressing the suspicion but attacking the player, but you were using this to say that because you do not think that infinity would be this bad, that infinity was a conspirator, which is faulty logic (not to say i wasn't also very wrong in my suspicions of infinity, i was, i was wrong too) but you were using this to make a determination on infinity's slot

whereas pooky was yelling at flea to say that flea had played poorly and was not appreciating pooky's efforts, which both assumes that flea is town and does not work towards a determination on flea's slot

this is a towny post Σ(,,oΔo,,*)

[Isis]

i think the conspirators win condition is probably to separate us. and i am worried about final three.

so when isis starts the day with jessie is not town, or pooky says in the pt during the night that they will create suspicion of me in order to get me alive into the next day phase, this is very suspicious

what

[Isis]

I would never shoot isis if I was scum and she was town

[Isis]

I would never shoot isis if I was scum and she was town

she would kill me though

she loves hurting me

I love hurting Hopkirk more

[Isis]

Ydrasse is probably the sturdiest UTR, right? Certainly for me.

[Isis]

lol

[Isis]

I wish the people who made me laugh the most were always town.

.. on second thought, I've never tested that hypothesis, maybe it's true?

[Isis]

One major sticking point I used to harp on a lot way back when was how obfuscating your townreads was a powerful strategy and how you shouldn't do readslists because it helps mafia more than town.

I don't know that it's actually sustainable in the current meta where people townread eachother's townreading and solve games that way, but it was true back then, I swear

pedit: No, Jessie, I do think there's a real mafia philosophy where you discuss the bottom half of your readslists, use that to read eachother, then keep how you feel about the top half of your readslist secret. Back in 2008 townreading was rare and scumreading was super common so you could discard a very small fraction of your play to accomplish this.

[Isis]

how did we never play together if you played in 2008?

I was only alive in one game at a time for my first few years playing the game, iirc

[Isis]

Why do you want to launch Pooky before me, Jessie?

[Isis]

Me and Ydrasse had an extremely normal PT. Iow, we pretty much exclusively discussed our reads. Jessie and Pooky otoh, apparently had a PT straight out of Mission Impossible.

This made me guffaw

[Isis]

My offwagon reads is Infinity<Gloria<Ydrasse=Jessie

how did flea being a conspirator move me to infinity's slot here

I think whenever I get a 48 hour break I wake up and when to townread the people I toneread town :/

There's some reasons I could state I'd be more proud of, but I think that bit is actually closer to the truth.

[Isis]

I've had a bit of RL stuff.

Pooky's play this phase doesn't make lots of sense to me. He usually enjoys reading me more than anyone else, so pulling an "I don't know what's going on this game, I will sheep my townread and hibernate" act seems out of sorts for him. For him I think it would be more likely that he spends a lot of time sorting me, decides I'm scumlock or townlock, then hibernates on sorting the rest of the game (which would not be particularly antitown if he decided on scumlock, but would be a bit antitown if he decided I'm town).

He was more in line with his town meta yesterday when he seemed to care a lot what my alignment is.

I think we probably win if you miselim me and go Pooky tomorrow, but I'm not so sure of that that I'm happy about being on e1.
Don't touch Ydrasse. One of the most townreadable things about Jesse to me was her clearing of Ydrasse. Yd has an accumulation of things pointing to her being town and she's er not masterclass scum anyways, it just shouldn't ever be tinfoiled.
pedit: I like Infinity a lot, but I like Flea even more, I wonder how much that influenced me last phase.
I don't think I could have come up with the refrigerator post if I knew Flea was scum. Faer play has a refreshingness to it.

[Isis]

Are you gonna hammer me Gloria?

[Isis]

I do enjoy sorting you Isis, but I feel like I've sorted everyone else already and this last part is just downright tragic either way :/.

I'm supposed to believe you picked me to sort last?

That's not how you played town in Decipher.

I don't think you couldn't be wrong on me Pooky. But I think you would always do it with both paws in the swimming pool doing so.

[Isis]

I don't really need redactions I guess

[Isis]

It is difficult to assess the balance of this setup.

This was significantly more bastard than Menagerie and I didn't love that.

[Isis]

I think balance wise it is incredibly hard for the scum because they are only as good as their weakest link.

just on a pure-probability basis assuming random elims its like 75% town victory on the first 2 launches?

Yeah, you can make the first 2 launches nonrandom using the strength of the numbers, but you're fully accountable for everything you do to make it different from 75%

[Isis]

Yes you may

[Isis]

I think this is the first time I was eliminated as the last member of the scumteams since I returned to site in 2019. (Not that I can remember cases before that either, just less confident.)
I'm out of any statistically interesting patterns in my games at this point.

[Isis]

Thanks skitter

I wish I could time travel and see how every day 3 scumpair would have gone. Mostly losses I think.