Mini Theme 2194 : Draft Mafia | Endgame

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Votecount 3.0

We brought pizza (0)
Not_Mafia (0)
Gamma Emerlad (0)
Toogeloo (0)
NoPowerOverMe (0)
Flea The Magician (0)
mastina (0)
BBmolla (0)
PookytheMagicalBear (0)
willow1 (0)
Shadowslug (0)

Not Voting (10) : We brought pizza - Not_Mafia - Mathblade - Toogeloo - NoPowerOverMe - mastina - BBmolla - PookytheMagicalBear - willow1 - Shadowslug

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to anahilate someone, day 3 starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-03-15 04:51:47)

It matters because pizza passed you things.

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It matters because pizza passed you things.

Pizza died, the pass happens after the kill.

That was d3.
N2 slots moved three.
You got stuff from Pizza on D3 that you could use last night.

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I got the same thing in packs everyone has probably been getting the last 2 nights. I still have my Night 1 ability however, and it's unlimited use.

We have been getting different things, but if it is the same no harm in saying it no?
And your N1 ability is?

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If anyone is still getting packs that have something other than Vanilla, color me impressed.

As to your second question... You dont get to know that info...yet.

Can you elaborate as to why not?

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I am going to have to ponder this when I have time to think about it.

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VOTE: mastina

Probably not moving unless someone posts an ironclad case.

I do like that vote. It’s my prevailing theory Mastina intended to or ended up blocking BBMolla if she is scum.

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Sorry I am at work and I can’t give your case the thought it deserves at work. So yeah tumbleweeds.

Unless you’d like me to just vote you like my gut says?

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I think so far from what I gather, since Toog won’t claim to confirm this VFP can’t be scum without scum having intentionally killed Pizza because Toog says they didn’t do anything that could redirect kill etc so if we take them at their word VFP can’t be scum.

VFP being scum would mean that scum would either have to use deflects improperly or intentional and I think scum would ask if they had a bus driver + deflection setup.

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Therefore VFP scum would require a Mastina scum or someone like her (maybe a Pooky if he tries hard as scum) so I am starting off with VFP truthtelling for now that they swapped me and BBMolla.

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MOD: Say a busdriver, Player A, busdrove players B and C.
What would happen if this role deflected all actions from player D (neither b or c) onto player B? Would they land on player B, or would they land on player C?
What would happen if this role deflected all actions from player B to player C? Would the busdrive still work?

a deflector, would in that case, deflect actions towards player C

in the second case, the bus drive takes priority, so all actions targeting C would go to B

So rewriting this replacing names to make it easier and make sure I understand.

Say a busdriver, VFP, bus drove myself and BBMolla.
Case 1) is Deflected all actions from D onto Myself/BBMolla >> end result actions submitted on D deflects onto BBMolla/myself
Case 2) deflect Myself/BBMolla elsewhere say to E >> end result is actions submitted BBMolla/myself to E as bus drive would take priority.

So if we are in case 2 and scum said anything targeting me should go Pizza. Then anything targeting BBMolla goes to Pizza.

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Please please if I mess up tell me I hate bus drivers and deflectors with a passion

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Then scum in that world shoot Mastina again and Pizza dies because of Mastina babysit

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This leaves two unknowns:
BBMolla getting no result when tracking Mastina
And Pooky not dying from hider

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from the wiki for hider
Some moderators treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee. This would change the result if, e.g., a Doctor was targeting the hidee directly (the variant Hider would die in that situation, whereas a Normal Hider would survive).

This would mean that Pooky could survive as the babysitter wiki says will die. Not is killed

A Babysitter may target a player each night to protect them. That player will be protected from one kill aimed at that player directly. However, if a kill succeeds on the Babysitter (rather than the Babysitter's target), the Babysitter's target will die along with the Babysitter.

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However Mastina didn’t die and her death would be required for babysitter to fire so that means Deflection actions to Pizza is out.

This means that both Mastina babysit and VFP Busdrive both can’t be valid imho

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The exception would be Toog claiming Doc on Mastina which I don’t see.

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But see I am also lost on then how the kill happens without VFP lying about who was bus driven.

In short unless one of the people unaffected by the bus drive are liars I don’t see how we get this result in a scum Mastina or town Mastina world.

And one of them has to be true

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I really don’t see how.

Let’s assume town in general aren’t lying about their actions/targets.

Then scum would have to have intentionally shot Pizza.

Otherwise how does Pizza die?

What we’re likely looking for is a busdriver on the scum side or one of Pooky/Mastina/BBMolla are lying.

What makes the most sense mechanically is Mastina blocks me which gets redirected to BBMolla but I don’t think that jives with Mastina play though.

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Some things to chew on. Feel free to expand on the passing thing, if you think it helps too.

I think that thing to chew on is I don’t think VFP passes me what VFP did as scum. That and the bus drive I don’t see them intentionally passing this pack to me if Pizza was intentionally killed which would be required for VFP scum.

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Toog I am sorry if you want to elim Mastina today I am going to need you to claim.

I don’t see why you’d be scumreading Mastina so heavily here.

We have BBMolla who was likely fucked with when that block was meant for me.

We have a likely bus driver (or other redirect mechanic besides VFP) in NM, you,Pooky,and A50.

BBMolla if scum, gets guiltied the moment his partner (if any) flips.
Mastina doesn’t make sense as scum with the babysit claim. It’s possible she directly blocked me but then she would have to be scum with BBMolla and shoot Pizza intentionally.

You are possible here as bus driver since all you’re saying is your word.
Pooky could be scum fishing for a reason for the kill on Pizza but I don’t think he as scum does that with hider.
A50’s claim is kinda sus but it fits with the setup so far.

Can you please give me something why Mastina here?

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VOTE: A50

My PoE is technically everyone not VFP.
Second level probably town is Mastina, BBMolla, and Pooky. >> The reason being if their partner ever goes down then the PoE shrinks rather dramatically and it is a silly choice unless widely townread.
Next level is A50/Not Mafia/you. >> These positions either have not claimed anything or have claimed suspicious things that can easily be swapped out for the second bus driver.

A50 and BBMolla both said they are awaiting my content.

At the same time I do kinda think there’s gotta be scum in you and A50 (if not both) because I have a hard time believing two town slots would both give inventions to people not Mastina (who iirc is a top townread at that point)

So it can realistically be a mix but I kinda like A50,NM, or you for an elim today.

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@Mod: I am sorry to do this but I need to request replacement.

Stepping away for a while.

Ugh pedits damn it. Will miss you Molla

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I still think Toog is town here.
What was the out come to mastinas post?

None of this makes sense.

We would need a jailkeep on Mastina and a doctor on Pooky and a redirector unclaimed.

None of that makes sense

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Pizza had a 1-shot deflector, was that taken into consideration?

And I feel like this might be one if those games where I go through the gamut of suspicions. Could Pooky and Pizza be doing scum theater all game? Pooky couldn't have resolved hiding behind pizza, or Pooky would have needed additional protection.

Yes I explained above why that doesn’t make sense and scum need their own additional bus drive/redirect

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I am just asking for your opinion after I gave my work.

I just voting you for pressure so I can hunt
I am aware sometimes I am dumb so going slow

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VOTE: unvote

Will look after work I just my head hurts

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I am kinda feeling Pooky Toog.

Just by play.

Thoughts?

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That doesn’t make you conf town though.

The issue I have is that no matter how I shake it you have to be scum because no doctor claims.

There’s no bus drive deflection scenario that works.

Even if we assume any bus driver deflection combo and assume VFP is scum here it just doesn’t work.

Say Pizza was bus driven with say me for example. You’d be hiding behind me.

Then scum attempt to shoot me and which causes them to kill Pizza.

This while it would work mechanically doesn’t work with the claims because it requires VFP scum and scum intentionally kill Pizza.

Do you see what accepting town you requires?

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Wait a minute.

Scum Busdrive me and Pizza
Town Busdrive me and Molla

I think that might work maybe ugh how would a double work fuck.

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Then if Mastina is scum she blocks both BBMolla and Pizza.
No deflection happens that makes math simple.

Pooky ends up hiding behind me.
Scum shoot Molla and the kill ends up bus driven to me which then gets bus driven again to Pizza.

I think that works maybe?

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So then ironically enough we are looking for one bus driver additional if Mastina is scum.

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Lemme ask the mod how that would resolve tomorrow.

I think that’s how maybe.

Or maybe scum just block pizza

Did I mention how much I hate bus drivers and redirectors?

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VOTE: Not Mafia

Come play and do something.

When unsure elim a lurker I guess?

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Possibly scummy but I figure that can happen after I am likely dead and I don’t like elimming a slot that’s awaiting replacement.

I also tend to find when I am stuck and can’t find scum the people doing jack and shit tend to be scum.

I agree with the VFP must be town but not the second half.
If you had stopped a kill there would have been two kill actions and no one claimed vig Mastina.
That’s what makes you mechanically more likely scum
I just don’t think by play you are and am looking for a second bus driver.

Either way it doesn’t fit and what I thought when I thought I had it figured out is stupid so I am just throwing mechanics out the window

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Daystart will be slightly delayed cuz i'm sick and there's a problem with resolving night actions, shouldn't be too long hopefully

It was obviously a convoluted night if the mod even had issues, Math.

At this point, I'm open to anything I guess. If mafia is in Math, mastina, pooky, then their WIM is higher than anything else the game is putting out and deserve a win. I can't in good conscious look there for today.

While we wait for a Molla replacement into this Ship of Theseus game, maybe Not Mafia could elaborate on their reads and give us a PoE.

Kinda where I am at on Mastina
My gut and mechanics says I should vote her
I just ...can’t.

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Daystart will be slightly delayed cuz i'm sick and there's a problem with resolving night actions, shouldn't be too long hopefully

It was obviously a convoluted night if the mod even had issues, Math.

At this point, I'm open to anything I guess. If mafia is in Math, mastina, pooky, then their WIM is higher than anything else the game is putting out and deserve a win. I can't in good conscious look there for today.

While we wait for a Molla replacement into this Ship of Theseus game, maybe Not Mafia could elaborate on their reads and give us a PoE.

Don't use MU terms

Lmao most of those are/were MS first

Are you gonna do something?

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What regrets?

VOTE: Unvote

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Ugh I wish I had this power when I know who the scum is.

A50 why are you giving me the power for the elim when you’ve said I have sucked before?

VOTE: Unvote

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Because you are conf!Town to me

I'm basically on the same spot with having you hardstuck, Math.
If you're scum we have already lost anyway.
Same for Pooky, I just don't see myself ever voting there.

Can you explain your Pooky town read?
I don’t get it.

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We want to elim before replacement, save our poor mod the trouble

Nah we have like seven days iirc.

Unless you all want vote without me (which may be a good thing as evidenced by my bad judgment on Pizza) okay.

But if you have my vote we can wait for I think 48 hours minimum?

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I guess let’s do this

Who wants Molla
Who doesn’t want Molla

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who do you want instead of molla?

No one. I am undecided.

I just want to be able to grill the slot and see if it makes the same mech claims.

If it makes different ones we know.

Scum are bad about remembering fake claims usually.

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I thought the slot was scum because tris lurks as scum lol.

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If we don’t have a replacement by Friday after work Molla it is.

I just was kinda hoping to see if Molla would obvTown.

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I have work for another 3-4 hours.

It’s not that much longer.

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Whelp off work now.

Was really hoping we would get a replacement in.

If Molla flips town elim Mastina with the force of 1000 suns as I am probably the NK.

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VOTE: Molla

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I don’t think that adds up VFP.

I have to work so no long time for detailed explanation but I don’t see Pooky claiming the impossible

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Also if you’re an outed PR what you did last night should be how you open....

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I do because we can confirm VFP’s theory that way I just don’t see it.

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I can confirm that I was likely bussed last night between mastina and myself.

I sent my last invention to mastina during the night and received it myself at end of night.

Btw: I took no action yesterday's previous night.

Sweet so that takes care of the kill.

I think scum are demonstrated to have a bus driver who hasn’t flipped yet because of yesterday’s shenanigans so I don’t think it could be Pooky.

I asked the mod if inventions would show on flip and the answer is no so neither A50 nor Pooky are lock scum.

But me Toog and VFP lock town I think we can PoE this.

And if me Toog VFP ends up becoming Elo for some reason probably VFP.

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oh lol

don't mind me, just hiding under a rock

do scum have multi-tasking by default?

nope, but the factional kill may be performed alongside any action

This seems contradictory
Do you mean scum can by default multitask their factional kill ONLY unless they have multitasking?

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How likely would it be for the scum and A50 to have been swapped by a second bus driver? Assuming a50 is town?

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I am probably going to vote A50 here just checking bases.

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The part I am trying to figure out is if A50 is scum how Pooky isn’t dead.

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That’s what I am curious about too.
Except I don’t see where VFP is scum except where Pizza was intentionally shot.

Which is why I think if Pooky is town second bus driver happened earlier or VFP is scum who lied about targets.

Assume VFP is town
I and BBMolla busdriven
Assume BBMolla deflected onto Pizza
Then scum attempt to shoot me then they shoot Pizza. Pooky dies
Then scum attempt to shoot Mastina then Mastina and Pizza die. Pooky dies.

Like I don’t get why scum deflect BBMolla there

Could be swap me and BBMolla
Deflect me onto Pizza.

But this requires scum shoot me then knowing it would end up on Pizza.

This doesn’t make sense.

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I'm wondering if this started with a weaker bus drive pack, it got passed to Molla, and in order to power it up, scum decided to pass it to slug/VFP knowing that a role like that is strongest in their most town read scum member.

No scum shoots me at night right now with Pooky, Math, and mastina as bigger threats, so an angle shot on mastina seems more likely.

I think either A > Scum have a strong willed shot
B> VFP is scum who shot you to hit Mastina
C> Scum shot you for being inventor which is TPR.

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A50 is scum

I believe you with how insistent you are but I am trying to figure out how because your read maybe weird.

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I am thinking if it’s A50 then Willow didn’t pass a tracker and Willow passed a busdriver.

Then that would make A50 scum.

Scum used a bus driver in combinator with the deflector and VFPs.

Then Pooky and X got busdriven >> Pooky is town hiding behind X.
Scum deflect BBMolla to Pizza
Scum shoot me >> anything targeting Me targets BBMolla because bus drive from VFP which then gets deflected onto Pizza.

I think that works?

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Angleshoot is still a nauhgty word

It’s not in this case. Toog is using it wrong but meh.

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I am thinking if it’s A50 then Willow didn’t pass a tracker and Willow passed a busdriver.

Then that would make A50 scum.

Scum used a bus driver in combinator with the deflector and VFPs.

Then Pizza and X got busdriven >> Pooky is town hiding behind X.
Scum deflect BBMolla to Pizza
Scum shoot me >> anything targeting Me targets BBMolla because bus drive from VFP which then gets deflected onto Pizza.

I think that works?

Ebwop

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How about bank shot? Mastina was killed by bank shotting it off me >_>.

Possible but only if VFP is scum
Otherwise scum would have intended to shoot you as they wouldn’t know about the bus drive.

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Which is why I'm arguing in favor of possible Slug/VFP scum. From a night pass perspective with a strong version of bus driver, it make sense.

Killing me over any of the near confirmed town only makes sense if someone was legit scared of me. A50 respects me, but doubt he's scared of me.

The only other realistic possibilities are:
A) scum don't like that I fight the narrative.
B) someone tried to vig me and scum's shot was blocked.

I am just gonna go with not A because I am still alive and I am the definition of weird.

If scum shot you it’s because you give away powers.

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In what world do I bus drive mastina and Toog, attack Toog and hope that they have something to confirm my bus drive, instead of just not bus driving or bus driving different targets?

So legit either Toog who has a roleblock ability and just went with my post saying who I bus drived. Blocked me, killed mastine.
Or Math is actually scum here? Knowing I wouldn't bus drive there.

UNVOTE: Pooky

Dude...the no kill N2

I am the cause. No way I am scum here

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VOTE: A50

Okay lets see if it's over.
I'm just too tilted now to go through the day.

I'm not sure why I ever pass what I did to Math if I'm scum here.........................

Agreed.

Everything is confusing

Just sorting things.

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Agreed unless no one dies but then best still not to flash vote.

I am scared because I am not on a50.

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A50 if you’re town who do you scumread?

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Can you like spoiler your scum butts please?

Makes it hard to read on mobile.

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It was....

I still want to know the answer to the puzzle as to how Pizza died without a second bus driver.

This game was a mindscrew.

At least I saved Mastina and she wasn’t scumstina and my read was right.

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Lmao I didn’t expect town lying lol

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Reading dead thread is hilarious *blush*

Again sorry unwd.

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soryy for skipping out on this one.

Sorry for lock scumming your slot for it

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I had only seen scum you do it.

*hides in blushies and will remember*

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NM doing it big

i'd nom N_M for paragon ngl

NM doing it big

thanks for modding gypyx!

This x1000

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I totally misunderstood the powered up powers portion of the rules. I was thinking new powers were going to be added, and didn't realize it was powers in packs powered up as they were passed until like Day 3.

I probably would have just taken Vanillas every night knowing what I know now. But I suspect most townies didn't grasp that either.

I woulda passed except I already had it and when Mastina has no votes she’s either uber scum or uber town >> jailkeep was perfect

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On

a

slightly

more

serious

note.

I

need

to

go

back

and

look

at

my

yeeting,

because

I'm

pretty

sure

some

people

need

to

apologise

to

me

for

being

honest

and

absorbing

the

pro

mafia

roles.

If you’re gonna take the pro mafia roles the biggest thing is to be beyond reproach so you never have to be defensive. A good defense is never having to play it.

(I hate defending myself as either alignment.)

If you don’t give scum anywhere to get purchase to miselim you they can’t do it.

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MC does post as scum, see Boonskiies game

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On

a

slightly

more

serious

note.

I

need

to

go

back

and

look

at

my

yeeting,

because

I'm

pretty

sure

some

people

need

to

apologise

to

me

for

being

honest

and

absorbing

the

pro

mafia

roles.

If

you’re

gonna

take

the

pro

mafia

roles

the

biggest

thing

is

to

be

beyond

reproach

so

you

never

have

to

be

defensive.

A

good

defense

is

never

having

to

play

it.

(I

hate

defending

myself

as

either

alignment.)

If

you

don’t

give

scum

anywhere

to

get

purchase

to

miselim

you

they

can’t

do

it.

Thing

is

I

am

an

easy

lim

no

matter

what

I

do.

I

can

play

compeltely

transparently,

openly

and

honestly

and

people

will

still

be

"hah

youre

scum!"

Dunno

if

you

noticed

Math,

I'm

a

lil

bit

weird

Can you please not do this?

It hurts my old foagie eyes much as I love rainbows.

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Also mastinas play and meta is so nuanced, I don't think anyone who isn't mastina can replicate it no matter how hard they try

Basically yeah.

You can replicate it short short term, but long term it becomes very obvious it isn't me.

I would love to try one day.

I can do a mean Titus impression but that one I have an inside advantage