MT 2203: Grand Idea Upick: Awakening [Endgame]

[KidAmn]

suuuuuuup. Skimmed 5 pages, said "what the fuck" out loud at least twice, I'm going back to bed for another hour
VOTE: Korina because I have terrible memories of your UPick and I honestly don't know why I signed up for this one

[KidAmn]

Hi CaptainS(hellyc)

[KidAmn]

I also don't believe their night kill immune miller vig claim at all, there's no reason to claim it if they are one

I don't know if meta has changed as it's been some years since I played a game here with a miller, but I was under the impression a miller's first post should always be a claim and they should expect to be removed from the equation by town well before a MyLo/LyLo situation.
If that is still the case, that does make the dancing around it for several posts and (entirely on-brand, regardless of alignment) complaint about not getting a cult role

again

a little strange.

PEdit: No such thing as too bastard in a UPick, as I learned in Korina's very own iteration.

[KidAmn]

@KidAmn: You can claim the miller part without claiming the NK-immune or vig part. Think about it:

1) If you're NK-immune, why tell all scum that you can only die if they strongman you? It means no one will waste shots on them and they'll know to use a strongman on them

2) If they're a vig, they're asking to be roleblocked

They're probably some kind of OP bulletproof cult leader

-mahi

1) A full roleclaim can earn points for honesty, assuming Korina is being truthful, and prevents us wasting vig shot/s on them

2) Following on from this, if they are as you posit "some kind of op bulletproof cult leader", what incentive do they have to claim a role that invites the attention of roleblocks, preventing them from recruiting? Unless you're suggesting they have some way of getting around that, I really don't understand where your logic is coming from here.

[KidAmn]

That's a reasonable suspicion looking at the list of available roles, although playing mind-games based on all the possible cult roles is entirely within Korina's wheelhouse.

To be clear - Korina absolutely has to die *at some point* IMO due to the Miller claim. The question, I suspect, is really whether we want to trust their claim and leash them as a vigilante, or try and remove the doubt before they could potentially get out of hand with a cult if they're lying.

[KidAmn]

I'm not sure I agree 100% with this being TvT, but we still have 1 player left to post and regardless of Ircher's minimum limit we shouldn't rush into anything as yet.

[KidAmn]

Jesus christ, how many fucking claims and softclaims and re-claims and Claim//Fame are we going to see before 10 pages? What the shitting fuck.

This mahi claim was about as organic as a Big Mac and way too convenient. "Oh, I can confirm 2 people's roles AND turn into a 2-shot Doctor after just claim for me teehee" after claiming and going so far as to (presumably, assuming Korina is truthful which again is a GIANT leap) fake a dayvig as well? To reiterate:

jesus frakking christ

.

[KidAmn]

Jesus christ, how many fucking claims and softclaims and re-claims and Claim//Fame are we going to see before 10 pages? What the shitting fuck.

This mahi claim was about as organic as a Big Mac and way too convenient. "Oh, I can confirm 2 people's roles AND turn into a 2-shot Doctor after just claim for me teehee" after claiming and going so far as to (presumably, assuming Korina is truthful which again is a GIANT leap) fake a dayvig as well? To reiterate:

jesus frakking christ

.

[KidAmn]

So both Korina and mahi are implying that anyone who questions them is scum (with mahi adding a Wolf on Guillotina - por que, mahi?). If nothing else, that makes me about... 987% sure this isn't same non-town alignments doing scum theatre.

[KidAmn]

Guillotina actually roled anti town.
I'm impressed.

If I roled anti town I would be begging the mod to allow me to kill my partner right now (you), cause he is obvious scum, I could get so much town cred.

I have never seen someone so far off base and so nakedly not reading the game in a long time.

Also, fuck Toad.

[KidAmn]

@A50, I'm not planning on shooting tonight, because I wanna see how many kills we have, excluding me. At most, we can have literally six SKs, but more pragmatically speaking, we probably have Mafia + SK/WW. Not only that, but we have majority throughout most of the game, so unless we lose three townies tonight, I'm not gonna shoot until I'm certain someone will flip scum.

pedit:
I picked a dayvig, but that was my mafia pick.

ppedit:
Yes, I would, because I think picking NK-Immune Miller Vig is actually a really smart move on my end. You can eliminate the odds of me being SK entirely, because I obviously pick Cult, meaning I'm either BP scum, or actually telling the truth.

This just reads "look im doing towny things, and have a towny thought process", instead of doing what everyone else would do with a vig.... shoot someone you think is scum and shrug it off if they arent.

@GUIL

You may want to read the rules regarding multiple posts in a row. (really all the rules)

2nded on both points.
1. Better to beg forgiveness and ask permission, looks very performative/LAMIST

2. Please don't make me read 20 pages every time I go to sleep America.

[KidAmn]

Still deeply unhappy about leaving Korina alive and unleashed as a claimed miller vig, but given that the town apparently just wants to roll with it I don't know how much more I can argue for what is essentially a policy "lynch or leash" on that front. Still fairly sure Korina/mahi was not TvT and want to come back to that at some point this weekend.

It is somewhat concerning that we seem to have multiple players either straight up not engaging with the game, or reading the game and coming to completely different (and in Guillotina's case easily proven wrong) conclusions. That said, presumably given that post #0 states all PTs have day talk, if they're scum/wolves/Aliens/etc they'd be being coached out of that... unless they're solo... urgh. This is why I hate Grand Idea UPicks. Why did I sign up for another goddamn Grand Idea UPrick.

VOTE: Guillotina for now, pushing someone who by their own admission either sorts themselves tomorrow or has a lot of explaining to do is phenomenally anti-town. There are

far

better places for us to be looking for scum today, and this feels to me like an attempt at creating noise to drive the discussion elsewhere.

[KidAmn]

485 is a towny post, I honestly don't get why the town wants to lime Korina who acts towny and is genuinely upset he didn't roll Cult and says that inthread.

I've always played with Miller roles as "lim before LiLo" and unconfirmable vigs as "leash or prevent killing (be that by setting up a perma roleblock/jail or elim). The combination of the two, on Korina, known cultlover? Probably just my inherent biases against their claimed role combination, but it makes me fairly sure that slot can't be allowed to go to endgame, and I'll stand on that hill till I die. Even if we just ask them to stick to a pool we agree on in the event they do shoot, I'd be a lot happier. FWIW I'm leaning town on the slot based on the posting and the relative promptness of the miller claim, even if 308 was a bit LAMIST, but I don't think I'll be confident enough in the read to lock it as things stand.

[KidAmn]

Bah

You wanna keep obvscum around, go ahead. Since you are this insane im gonna do something equally insane. I will sheep the first person that asks me to sheep him/her. Every vote from this point forward til the end of the day that he/she casts, I will cast.

sheep me pls

Granted. Consider yourself a double voter

Spoiler: How I feel about this slot

[KidAmn]

Bah

You wanna keep obvscum around, go ahead. Since you are this insane im gonna do something equally insane. I will sheep the first person that asks me to sheep him/her. Every vote from this point forward til the end of the day that he/she casts, I will cast.

Go!

obvious sign of resignation, seems like scum wouldn't be this insane though

The last Grand Idea UPick I played in (which was Korina's) I fakeclaimed my Werewolf buddy in the dead thread so that when a player got reincarnated they would take that false information back and get the wrong person lynched so I could win with the Slivers.

...what I'm trying to say is, nothing is impossible in this kind of game.

Nothing.

[KidAmn]

Is this normal for day 1 around here? Asking for a friend.

Grand Idea UPicks are quite possibly the least standard game you could play on MS. Depending on the roles chosen, they could range from "just outside Normal" to "3 different scum teams, a cult and multiple roles that require the mod to lie or withhold information from players". So, uh, welcome to the deep end, it only gets easier from here.

Spoiler: CaptainS prev. post

@KidAmn: You can claim the miller part without claiming the NK-immune or vig part. Think about it:

1) If you're NK-immune, why tell all scum that you can only die if they strongman you? It means no one will waste shots on them and they'll know to use a strongman on them

2) If they're a vig, they're asking to be roleblocked

They're probably some kind of OP bulletproof cult leader

-mahi

1) A full roleclaim can earn points for honesty, assuming Korina is being truthful, and prevents us wasting vig shot/s on them

2) Following on from this, if they are as you posit "some kind of op bulletproof cult leader", what incentive do they have to claim a role that invites the attention of roleblocks, preventing them from recruiting? Unless you're suggesting they have some way of getting around that, I really don't understand where your logic is coming from here.

I think everyone trying to push for my d1 elim is scum, and I’m going to shoot you.

Fear mongering

Korina is literally flipped scum

-mahi

It's day one. Granted nobody has anything just by what they have posted and their posting style but the aren't flipped scum confirmed. Just a chance of scum.

We arent waiting for night. Korina fades today.

Agree with the point but why the certainty and can you do it earlier?

on one hand korina had a higher chance than some people to be non-town, due to picking non-town as their 3rd, so as an indifferent baseline it's better than random

on the other hand, non-town have a vested interest in getting rid of someone who can't be nightkilled, and posts exist so it's never random anyway

This is a decent post to me. Speaks the truth and the fact is we don't know for sure. Very towny post

Raya is town and in my cult, leave them alone. I recruited them n0. Also, VFP, if I recruit you tonight, will I die? Yes or no?

No, I would never hurt my cult leader!

I want whatever they are on because it must be a very nice thing lol

Korina is literally flipped scum lol

-mahi

Have we had an end of day I wasn't aware off? Hmm.
Their is a chance they are scum, a chance you are and I am. I am leaning that way also but they haven't flipped it yet.

Bah

You wanna keep obvscum around, go ahead. Since you are this insane im gonna do something equally insane. I will sheep the first person that asks me to sheep him/her. Every vote from this point forward til the end of the day that he/she casts, I will cast.

Go!

Umm.

Please dont sheep me?

Samanthas post stood out for me from what i quoted but what i don't understand and put this down to whether it's a bastard game or not.

Is this normal for day 1 around here? Asking for a friend.

That said, I'm struggling to see that you're doing much of anything in terms of scumhunting here. I appreciate "feeling your way into a game" but we're 20+ pages in now.
PEdit - I don't exactly disagree with VFP, but I don't feel it anywhere near as strong as "probably town" ngl.

[KidAmn]

Also deciding where scum shoot might not be a bad idea.

But we already know who Korina promised to shoot :^)

[KidAmn]

That's cute and all but we still gotta work out what we're doing here and now first. We've got nono whose name is apparently what they say when asked for input judging by their post count, Guillotina who yeeted themselves at VFP (who has claimed to self-sort) and then threw a tantrum, and mahimahi who's got more lines in the water than a deep sea trawler after faking a dayvig so deep as to beg ircher for confirmation. Flea's coaching the baby for their Wrestlemania debut, Raya did a bunch of goodposting yesterday but ain't showed up today, and apparently A50 is the only other sane man here. Vax and Temp are having a slapfight and I dunno if they're working themselves into a shoot, brother. That about sum it up?

Assuming Korina's coming through on Vax, my pool today is Guillotina, nono if they don't pull a finger out, and fishfish, so I guess me and VFP are at least a tangent away from each other. (plus aforementioned belief that millers don't endgame, nothing personal Korina). I got a 4 day weekend, so let's cut this game open and rummage around in the guts till something smells.

@everyone

- your 3 person PoE, danke schön.

[KidAmn]

we can have this day over in 6 hours if we want

VOTE: no elim

only need 5 more votes

What's the fascination with throwing away the town's biggest power? Ain't the first time you've called for this while vaguely hinting at vague things you know.

[KidAmn]

Disagree. Fancy night powers are nice and all, but the biggest asset town has is the lynch and the discussion towards it. Way I see it in the few years I've been back, biggest problem this place has is modern towns getting out-posted into apathy and hoping our PRs lead us to water and teach us peristalsis.

To that end - I asked a question, and I notice you ain't answering. Oblige me.

[KidAmn]

biggest problem this place has is modern towns getting out-posted into apathy and hoping our PRs lead us to water and teach us peristalsis.

this isn't a normal game; we can lean on power roles

Agree to disagree, whatever: that's twice you've not answered the pertinent question at the end of #568.

[KidAmn]

ya

I'll trade you an answer for no elim vote

Hard pass, unless you're gonna give me more reason than waving your hands about and making spooky intimations about how informed you are.

[KidAmn]

this is the first game where I have actually wanted to vote no lynch

Let's not do this. There's still plenty of time for D1 anyway

I've thought about it more and I actually think this is the best strategy given the claims +

what I know myself

Ain't that long since you said it.

[KidAmn]

Site has been borked most of the day, hence the time extension.

[KidAmn]

@everyone - your 3 person PoE, danke schön.

Guillotina, Samantha, Nono.

Why am I with Mahi in your PoE, when he is in my PoE. Doesn't “the enemy of your enemy is your friend” apply here? It should?

So you're Mafia and forget that there's probably 3rd party's.
Thanks for confirming this.

Also, Mahi town.

I caught that from Guillo earlier in another post too. Wouldn't scum be more aware of potential third parties or another team though?

Yes and no - the last UPick I was in, I was a Werewolf Mason who knew my masonry partners weren't part of a Mafia faction, but there were Mafia, Werewolves, a cult, Slivers, a Serial Killer and a Jester, all in a 15 player game. These games are very much "throw everything in a blender, make token effort to ensure it's a completable game if you want, press play". By and large, I advise to assume the worst, do the best you can D1, and hope whatever happens Night 1 makes sense.

[KidAmn]

Mahimahi, nono, sam.

Yes these are easy targets. No, I don't care.

mahi, vax, and guillo are my three curennent SRs

Though sam's insistence on No Exile is super sus

Mahi, Guillo, not sure who else yet

What if I have too many TRs I can't come up with a 3 person PoE? Like, the only one I'd vote without remorse is Nono (considering Vax is the one I'm voting now and you all want to let Korina handle him). I don't really have a 3rd.

Guillotina, Samantha, Nono.

Collated for convenience. Obvious overlaps are Mahi, Guillo and Nono which seems like a smart pool.

Korina (4) (E-3)- Vaxkiller (323), mahimahi (416),

CaptainS (443), Nono (588)

Vax was pretty consistently anti-Korina from the claim onwards, but waited till 323 to vote. Softed yet another role that can confirm multiple people to go with mahi's role guesser and VFP's "self-sort". mahi has been in perpetual 1v1 with Korina as well. The other two...

I'm away for less than a day and 10 pages jees Louise.

First impressios is that you all talk ALOT.

Personally I don't believe a lot of the claims and it's Day 1 and soft claims/ roleclaiming Day 1 is honestly not be believed especially in a bastard set up.

I do have a few people that I'm leaning town with the way that they act and the way they are coming across to me but after all it is my first game with all of you and likewise with me. Becausr i could claim Jesus for all you know but I ain't got anything to back it up.

But for now VOTE: Korina Choo Choo

Naked bandwagon, so inactive since as to get prodded.

what is this game xD
to be honest, not feeling it,, too many people are pure confusing
temporal maybe the most uncontaminated of them all, early reads town)

I'm not pulling the same thing as last time Nono. The same thing would be CLAIMING THAT I'M TOAD FROM MARIO, A SURVIVOR WITH A POST RESTRICTION WHERE I MUST TALK IN ALL CAPS OR I DIE.
I also don't like your insinuation that you *know* I'm scum again, when I know for a fact I'm a townie.
I would honest to god shoot you tonight, but a bullet goes to Vax tonight. You get shot tomorrow unless you flip. Sorry Nono, but I genuinely can't read you, and I want you out.
As for town roles that I pick, I literally said I submitted NK-Immune Miller Vig, or I would've submitted a Miller role just because I think it's funny. Alternatively, barring any of those, I would've submitted a vigi, because we know there are a lot of townies in this game, and I have a substantially higher chance of shooting not town, considering people can pick an IC, or clear themselves with town roles.

what?!?!? of course not, no xD can't seriously have that as a point or expect you to do that, that's too on the nose
meant attitude, vibe,, claiming survivor or nk-immune vig, which would is a good claim for scum
never had insinuation i knew you were scum, was just thinking from that perspective,, how is thinking you are scum scummy, anyhow
of course you say that, was rhetorical question though, can't just believe you on word of mouth now

wondering what your townplay is like,, all i think now is wanting everyone who dislikes you gone, feels TERRIBLE,, it isn't scumhunting, only barring not knowing how town!you plays

I'm claiming a confirmable role. If I was claiming survivor again, sure, I'd get it. I'm not. I'm claiming vigilante. I can literally claim the kill I do, and prove I can at least kill people. If I don't kill someone, and I wasn't RB'd/hit immune, then you have plausible reason to kill me.

also, can just be scum xD (but we won't mention it so everyone will forget)

i'll trust in fish also, today) VOTE: korina

Look, I'mma level with you - this makes about as much sense to me as gills on a mountain lion.

[KidAmn]

I want a policy yeet

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. That or you're being purposefully unhelpful.

[KidAmn]

E-1, Guillotina. Practically E-1 Korina as well, FWIW, but I think it's clear which one I'd prefer.

[KidAmn]

How to explain this... I don't remember why I scum read KidAmn anymore, I know I picked up on something but I forgot about it while I was defending myself trying to prevent my elimination. (It's embarrassing I know).

You can just admit you OMGUS'd, y'know.

The difference between the Guillotina of 5 pages ago and Guillotina now is so stark I have a hard time reconciling them and frankly I'm not buying it.

Can't believe I'm having to restate this, but voting No Lim is an absolutely awful idea and tantamount to throwing half the information we get out of D1 away.

Don't particularly like Korina's slot or TR Korina, but agree with A50 that the current 4 votes on Korina are a fine PoE - Vax towards the lower end because a certain amount of "what the hell, you're gonna vig me?" would be expected as any alignment, IMO.

game is funny, in the worst way kek

gullio can be town, playing similar to last game, maybe
let's vote korina so we can get started on twilight early (joke) xD

Hammer coming in 5 minutes if you don't. I'm not bluffing.

-mahi

I was bluffing hehe

You're probably both scum but the potential cult leader is more dangerous

-mahi

Gullo probably isn't claiming because he knows that even if Korina is deathed today, I could check him tonight and catch him out as lying

-mahi

I need to know your role to check you. ISO me to see our role

-mahi

Nono is actively lurking and just hopping on to shitpost, and mahi owns a whole fleet of trawlers at this point. If for some ineffable reason we're not ejecting Guillotina, recommend either of these.

[KidAmn]

VOTE: mahimahi
As previously stated, rolefishing hard with the promise of totally getting a bunch of doc shots out of it, you guys + I believe this helps sort what was, I'm fairly certain, not a TvT situation with Korina at the start of the day.

[KidAmn]

Dear god spoiler tags my dude.

[KidAmn]

...OK, so Korina has lied at least once about their 3rd pick, and their promised kill on Vax didn't happen. Vax has almost certainly lied to try and get Korina lynched and VFP has asserted they can prove so, and nono who pretty much only SR'd Korina died last night. mahimahi has also declared more or less their entire wagon to be scum and that Korina's claimed role doesn't match their Guesser check.

This feels pretty much like scum who believe they can't NK Korina decided to create an overabundance of "evidence" to set up a lynch.

Again, for the record, given that Korina has almost certainly lied to us at one point or another regarding their pick, AND is a claimed Miller, that apparently doesn't know how Millers work, that slot dies before endgame. But, given that Vax has pretty openly fakeclaimed, VOTE: Vaxkiller

[KidAmn]

UNVOTE: because I want to look through A50's post and see if we can build a working plan of action first, as much as I enjoy a good LaL. Agree on balance that the (slim, but still extant) possibility of multiball/cult/other shenanigans means we need to step carefully on how we unsnarl this. Will have to wait till later though, a touch slammed at work.

[KidAmn]

...I go away for 4 hours and you people... jesus fuck. After I specifically said there's no reason to rush through the day, and we should maybe consider how best to sort everyone involved in this SNAFU? Fuck sake.

[KidAmn]

I tried culting Vax. It didn’t work. Nobody claimed to have RB’d me, so he’s groupscum.

...oh. Well in that case I take it back, good job team. Obviously wary about taking the admission of cult target at face value, but yeah.
VOTE: Korina because I never miss an opportunity to stick the knife in, even if it is an autopsy at this point.

[KidAmn]

Well, in the unlikely event you're being honest about targetting Vax, at least you helped town out I guess?

PEdit: I'm reluctant to say yes, because UPick, but... sure looks like it?

[KidAmn]

There's a lot of math being thrown around and I can't work out if I'm going to suffer for being a spartan poster or not.

VFP i need your role number. Now, not later.

mahi, you forgot to log off your alt

mahi will win this game for the town one way or another. With patience, resolve, and mahis, we can stomp out every anti-town in this city

We'll probably case Flea The Necromancer tomorrow

-mahi

Or it might be easier to just convince you all on Guillotina, he's more certain scum honestly for how scared he was to claim. The only time you see stubborn town not claiming at E-1 is when they're VT and know it won't change anything. No one in this setup is VT, we all have power.

Guillotina is scum who did want to claim because there's a Town Guesser alive.

-mahi

Why does "how easy it is" determine who you case? Have some conviction in your convictions, or you'll never convict anyone.

[KidAmn]

Nope, I refuse to waive.

Well that's just petty. VOTE: End Day

[KidAmn]

Nope, I refuse to waive.

and this is why twilight extensions should be ended on

majority

, not unanimous vote.

A supermajority, I'd say.

[KidAmn]

I have no idea if I'm safe and frankly if I'm not the rule sucks.

[KidAmn]

Oh, I misread, I thought it was 2SD either way (up or down). Well, heck with it then.

[KidAmn]

I got a result on someone. It's like a completely useless role. Like why would you choose that?

Due to the VFP flip, there is likely no bus driver so i feel confident in my info.

Their is so many people with unconfirmed roles so this role is a load of bull.

Ok while Vax tell us his result I'd like to push this. I was looking at his ISO last night and it looks bad, no effort to solve at all.

VOTE: CaptainS

I have two questions to ask.
Why?

Your fellow cultists tell you to or just scum?

Asking for a friend

First bolded section makes no sense. How is Vax's role "a load of bull"?

Second bolded section, likewise, also indicates lack of reading game thread - unless I've misinterp'd, there can't be any cult left, so this is just flailing and a massive over-reaction to one vote from someone I wouldn't exactly say is super-town looking themselves.

Captain S should claim.

Presumably this is your result: strange that of all the people in the game you picked someone with near-zero interactions instead of building a confirmable bloc of players who've actually done some good scum/culthunting.

[KidAmn]

Eh good enough for me.

VOTE: Almost50

...Que?

[KidAmn]

But this game isn't balanced properly, right? Since it's a upick. Scum can be anything and town can be anything. Scum could even claim honestly if there are town versions of their role. I don't see how a mass claim could be useful at this point of the game. I only see it giving scum insight on who to night kill and town very little advantage

This, basically. UPicks are extremely resistant to massclaims. Virtually every role in that thread has a variant for virtually every alignment possible, and while 1 kill per night suggests only 1 killing anti-town faction, it doesn't necessarily preclude there being more than 1 anti-town faction left now that we have removed the cult from play.

PEDit - yeah.

[KidAmn]

@raya36 @TemporalLich @KidAmn

What are your opinions on CaptainS performance so far in this game?
What do you think about my case on him?

I'm still not sold on you as town given the amount of chainsawing you've done, and your case on CaptainS seems to come down to active lurking and not giving a lot of rationale behind their actions, but I can't pretend it's not somewhat compelling.

VOTE: mahi mahi

Pointless, mahi mahi can't be yeeted.

How do we know they're 100% yeetproof and weren't pardoned or a 1-shot proof?

[KidAmn]

We've only seen 1 death per night so far: if there is a vig, there's either been some deeply unfortunate cross-killing, a lot of anti-town holstering, or some real good work by a doc.
Occam's razor suggests it most likely at this point there simply isn't a vig, which would tend to make me agree with Vax/TL that mahi is unlikely to be straight up ungated.

PEdit: I'm not so sure scum are the only people who would choose unyeetable roles; I am fairly sure that town wouldn't choose unyeetable and then make themselves so thoroughly un-useful.

[KidAmn]

Dude if there were 6 original anti-town entities here, the host scum sided with the restricted posting rules. Like it's frustrating how I have to wait to write a big wall post because I cannot out my thoughts on the go.


-------------------------------------

@raya36 @TemporalLich @KidAmn

What are your opinions on CaptainS performance so far in this game?
What do you think about my case on him?

I'm still not sold on you as town given the amount of chainsawing you've done, and your case on CaptainS seems to come down to active lurking and not giving a lot of rationale behind their actions, but I can't pretend it's not somewhat compelling.

VOTE: mahi mahi

Pointless, mahi mahi can't be yeeted.

How do we know they're 100% yeetproof and weren't pardoned or a 1-shot proof?

What do you mean by chainsawing?

I misspoke, it was more OMGUS: everyone who suspected you at one point or another D1 ended up in your SRs:

Scum team if VFP is actually town.

RAYA
mahimahi
temporal
KidAmn

Bad habit of getting those two mixed up.

[KidAmn]

Also @KidAmn, you casted suspicion on CaptainS on various occasions but you never committed to them with a vote. Why?

It looks suspicious because it looks like distancing. Im sorry if im wrong.

Day 1 we had Korina vs. Mahimahi, which I wanted to lynch in to sort what I repeatedly asserted I did not believe to be a TvT interaction, and therefore prioritised this over Captain who Day 1 looked like what they said they were: site newbie, getting used to how this site plays Mafia.
Day 2 we have the clusterfuck around Korina/VFP/Vax into the rather fast elim and Korina claiming shortly after the hammer. There were barely 200 posts between D2#VC1 and hammer. I personally got to make 3 posts in that time period, due to work commitments and timezones. In a hypothetical world where none of the Vax/VFD/Korina interaction happens, Captain is absolutely in the conversation for their continued active lurking.
Today, I haven't cast a vote yet. I don't tend to exactly throw my vote around haphazardly, and the voting history backs that up. Given their apparent lack of engagement with the gamestate and continued refusal to scumhunt, Captain is 100% in my PoE for today, as is mahi (proven liar on their claim) and to a lesser extent Vax (pushing for a fullclaim in a format notably resistant to it, as I've stated, only helps scum IMO). Flea is also a person of interest, regardless of how much faer crumbing, because it feels like a lot of noise and very little actual contribution, which sets off alarm bells in a GIUPick where, as previously stated, any role can realistically be any alignment.

If you want me to "put up or shut up" as the kids say, VOTE: CaptainS. While I remain sceptical of Vax, A50 is correct - Captain's 1243 is the culmination of a playstyle in this game that is indicative of a lack of intent to gamesolve and a lack of basic cognition of the gamestate that does not befit town.

[KidAmn]

Look. I'm tired and if ya'll really want to vote me up then do so. But it's a mistake. I ain't going to beg and say that it will ruin the game if i'm gone but I am going to say this.

I'm town. You don't know my playstyle. I've given you my backstory and I know Zero people on this site.

Guillo was happy voting people up with the way they acted in previous games and they voted them up in earlier days. I don't have that luxury. I just have my reads.

Guillo has gone a fatal attraction for me it seems. For what it's worth I'll give my opinion on what I think people are at the moment.

1. mahimahi : Scum
2. Flea the Magician : Town
3. Raya36 : Town
4. TemporalLich : Town
5. Guillotina : Scum or Neutral
6. Korina : Scum
7. Almost50 : Town
9. KidAmn : Town
11. samantha97 : Strong Town
12. CaptainS : Defo Town
13. Vaxkiller : ?

Obviously people will have different opinions on what they think etc but that's my thoughts. I'd be happy to go into why/who whatever but you'll have to be more specific with who/what and I'll answer whatever questions I can etc.

But for now I'm logging off and I'll be back on GMT a.m time. So I'm not lurking. Called sleeping and resting.

Alright kids, spot the glaring error that proves CaptainS isn't reading or even really paying attention to this game, and therefore likely not playing to a town wincon (bonus points if you can tell me WHY they're likely not playing to a town wincon).

Go on, I'll wait.

[KidAmn]

Long work day, too frazzled for much at the moment.

Intent to hammer

- Mahi, a claim that isn't a lie please.

[KidAmn]

Long work day, too frazzled for much at the moment.

Intent to hammer

- Mahi, a claim that isn't a lie please.

He already softed prince which is confirmed by his flipless D1 elimination. We are hoping it is just a 1shot.

Regardless, giving them a chance to post before condemnation costs nothing, even if they do just shitpost more.

[KidAmn]

I'll claim I targeted CaptainS last night...


OOOOOO.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

but...

*deep thinking*

Guillo where's your fullclaim/hardclaim again?

fuckin awesome and fair ^_^ Shall we proceed?

PEDIT: I did not.

Oh.. then i got no idea what's going on again. Meh

I think I see it. Guillo, your hardclaim is

precisely

#9807, right? No alterations?

[KidAmn]

I'll claim I targeted CaptainS last night...


OOOOOO.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

but...

*deep thinking*

Guillo where's your fullclaim/hardclaim again?

fuckin awesome and fair ^_^ Shall we proceed?

PEDIT: I did not.

Oh.. then i got no idea what's going on again. Meh

I think I see it. Guillo, your hardclaim is

precisely

#9807, right? No alterations?

Correct, no alterations made by me.

Well, that's an interesting choice of words.

[KidAmn]

alright, let me explain:

we fakeclaimed town guesser because it's extremely useful in getting players to spew alignments, and that information is far more useful than the expense of any "rolefishing" that might occur which scum can use

We got two vital pieces of information from the claim:
-vfp was town since they were instantly willing to claim to be checked
-guillotina is not town because they were terrified to claim and would not under any circumstances, even when out to L-1 with intent

also it was funny and having the knowledge that it's literally impossible for us to be executed made us want to do fun and stupid gambits

regardless, it's impossible for us to be excuted and i'm not elaborating on it beyond that to give scum any information. it'd be a waste of another day to vote us, as funny as that would be, and Ircher will probably get mad at us if we play against wincon too much since we are technically town

-mahi

This is exactly why I wanted to wait and I question why TL rushed in to hammer before giving mahi a chance to respond. That said, mahi, I hate to agree with Guillotina but you have really not helped town at all this game, and you claiming to be "technically town" does not spark joy.

[KidAmn]

Just woke up.
Don't agree with a fullclaim just yet.
mahi needs to die for town to win, which means Guillo needs to be able to kill them.
That's all I can say for now, going to be busy the rest of the (IRL) day.

[KidAmn]

I'm not convinced about yeeting Sam, for 2 reasons:
a) I don't fully trust Guillotina and this plan involves, as mentioned prior, functionally sacrificing a virtually mechconf town player and giving Guillo sole control of "our elim" for this cycle
b) I'm not sure that potentially accelerating the pace of the game actually helps town that much. Assuming we go through and elim Sam (down to 8) and then Guillo grenades someone (7) and presumably scum shoot Guillo (6) - if Guillo's scumdar is off and Sam

is

town, we're suddenly very likely to be in a very, very bad spot depending on how many non-town players are left in this game.

Admittedly, it's possible (but v. low odds given no non-town iterations of Sam's claimed role exist in the GIM thread) that we just win the game, or put ourselves in a very good position, but I'm something of a combat pragmatist and there feels too much to possibly go wrong here. That said, I'm also not sure there

is

another way out short of ignoring mahi's slot entirely and trusting to our scumhunting to get us there. In a "normal" game I'd be less concerned, but given this is a GIPick it's absolutely possible we've put ourselves in a no- or very low odds to- win position.

[KidAmn]

Everyone defending Sam have private anti-town interests for her survival.

There's a somewhat pertinent quote about running into assholes all day. I invite you to consider it unless you really want to die on the hill of "everyone suggesting we not yeet Sam is anti-town".

[KidAmn]

VOTE: Sam [Yeet-1]

Yeah I got no intention to vote guillo, but guillo holstering means UNVOTE: Sam for me until we gain a better plan.

Why the turnaround? Given Guillo's hyper-emotional play, I expect they'll be unholstered in a few more pages. They've bounced around on so many issues so much; they've even gone through 3 (that I recall) different plans of action in the last few pages. But then, so have you:

Trust me I'm thinking on the Sam yeet.

Mechconf yet incredibly anti-town, which is the better to have, a filtered kill turning this into a weirdly standard kill setup, or ust letting loose and probably making tomorrow YOLO.

You need to target Mahi if we yeet sam.

I am getting people pleaser vibes guill, you know that aint a good vibe :/ Like its you, this is fully you, but I dunno if its AI or not.

Honestly I'm torn on it, Sams thing actually empowers me...

I have reasons for keeping Sam alive, as pissy as I am for the wasted night action...

But ya'll make some damn good arguments. Lemme see where the votes are at, I don't wanna pull a TL

VOTE: Sam [Yeet-1]

From "thinking on it" and "you need to target mahi" to "getting people pleaser vibes guill, you know that aint a good vibe" when he acquiesces; then suggesting Sam's power empowers you somehow and having reasons to keep them alive, but then you jump on to put them at E-1 until you realise Guillo's vote didn't count to put them on the edge...

Also I highly suspect we have lost majority due to guillo being silenced

Why does Guillo losing their vote to the posting rule make you think we've lost majority?

[KidAmn]

well i guess things are going well in the maheat of the moment

- mahimahi

Cannot stress enough how desperately we need to get rid of this slot. I still don't think it's worth yeeting Sam, but this is someone who will screw us endgame.

I will claim if people think it absolutely necessary, I crumbed D1 and given the current gamestate I have reason to not fully claim.

[KidAmn]

This plan stinks, and I will have no part of it. Call me scum all you want.

[KidAmn]

I'm in the last hour of work and work right now is

miserable

. Give me some time (hours, not days) to reread and we'll see if I can cut to the heart of the matter.

[KidAmn]

VOTE: KidAmn

We got him! The plan to unvanillalize the town's vigilante sucks for him.

Oh fuck off. This plan sucks for me because it sucks for town. Less kills gives us more time to scumhunt in thread, more time for other PRs to find scum via other means, Flea has

clearly

been hinting at something that removing Samantha makes worse or at best more unpredictable, and you're about as trustworthy as a fox in a henhouse and thinking about as clearly as Matt Gaetz with $900 burning a hole in his pocket.

[KidAmn]

wHy ArEnT yOu ScUmHuNtInG mOrE says local man who has made today all about whether we give him free reign to kill as he pleases or not

[KidAmn]

Have you noticed that no one has been talking about anything else? That is because scum is using the posting restriction rules to silence our votes and get away with no contributing much. The design of this game is pro-scum because it penalizes scumhunting and game solving on the go (as you have to wait for interactions to get going so you can then multiquote and wallpost, but there cant be interactions going if town leaders have to limit their posting so we dont get penalized) and rewards active lurking.

Or it's to stop hyperposters monopolising a game and making it so fast paced that it becomes impossible to keep up with for town. Are you really suggesting Ircher made an inherently scum-sided rule just to screw us over?

Take for instance CaptainS, he's been reading the game thread, you know this because he laughed to your flame on me in the other post. To laugh to that you gotta know the context and you only acquire context by reading, so the guy is intentionally reading and lurking in the thread without contributing at all.

You're 100% right. If I had my druthers, he'd be the one swinging. He's in the PoE, he's inarguably done even less for the town than you other than to wander in to compliment me or laugh at my jokes, and he's in the PoE. VOTE: CaptainS

Everyone else in my PoE has stayed relatively quiet. Why do you think is that? Be ause they want me to end up posting more than them so i can be silenced again tomorrow if i survive.

I really think you massively overestimate your own importance. Nothing new there.

I've been playing tjis game for 20 years, i know a pro-scum design when i see one.

Samantha's role (if real) is a trap set up by the host, we have to choose to kill the town naturalist so we can start solving the game.

You act like you've barely been on this planet for 20 years, never mind playing Mafia that long, but let me give you a hint either way: if you're going to make baseless claims like this, maybe read Post 0 first in future.

Setup-Specific Rules
1. During signups, all players submitted to me at least one town role, one mafia or werewolf role, and one other role that may be of any alignment from the Grand Idea Mafia thread. Each player has a 65% chance of rolling their town pick, 20% chance of rolling their mafia/werewolf pick, and 15% chance of rolling their other pick. If the setup had fewer than 7 townies or 2 mafia/werewolves rolls, I rerolled the setup. (The two mafia/werewolves rolls do not have to end up being the same alignment.)

So unless you're suggesting that Ircher lied to everyone and didn't roll setups but instead created a dastardly scheme that only you, the Great Guillotina, can unveil, might wanna walk that one back chief.

Which allows me to conclude that she willingly decided to become a negative utility for town so she could have her way of how she wanted the game to progress, weakening town's mechanical solve prowess.

OR

The naturalist is a fake claim and she has been my roleblocker all along.

OR

Newbie players like you are far too used to letting PRs solve everything for them and have forgotten how to scumhunt, and Samantha's role encourages that instead of "find the town PRs, leash and protect, repeat until win or lose". Like she literally said was the reason she created the role:

UNVOTE:
Why would you choose that role?

more like why did I make it

I made it cause I h8 how there are like 3 kills per night in grand idea

I wanted there to be room to breathe

also yes I'm guaranteed the nk because I have been passively blocking factional nightkills and I don't even have to be correct and target someone to do it

If you were arguing Samantha was, say, a scum/alien/wolf/SK/etc Roleblocker, I'd have far more respect for this crazy scheme. As it is, I think you're either a woefully misguided town angry they can't use the cool role they asked for, or something else which I'm going to PM Ircher a query about to clarify.

[KidAmn]

Like, I don't know how much more clear I can make this: the way you are playing

does not hurt scum

because mahi would not be openwolfing this hard if they, as a faction, were scared of you. They are more than likely counting on your silly little idea and your previously stated intent to work through myself and Raya after mahi, plus the kill we've seen every night, to hand them this game. They are likely counting on you to keep taking your own vote away by rageposting constantly and screaming about how anyone who disagrees with you is scum, because

it makes their job easier

. I don't know how I can more effectively communicate this to you.

[KidAmn]

You... really don't understand UPicks, do you. We are only guaranteed 7 town as the minimum Ircher set when he rolled the setup. The numbers you just described are perfectly possible.

[KidAmn]

You are scum claiming by choosing to place a vote on someone that is not gonna get traction. You are going against what the majority of what town wants and needs.

If the majority of town wants it, why hasn't it happened yet? And do you really think nobody in town would agree with me on CaptainS? When

you

agree with me on CaptainS?

You said that i haven been playing pro town

Don't put words in my mouth. I said you were misguided and angry.

Whether i was right or not we will find out eventually but I think I was right by how defensive you are getting in a very hostile way.

You really don't know me well enough to ascribe emotion to my actions, bud. You're picking a fight with your ally here over a basic lack of understanding of how this game (not Mafia, in general, but

this game specifically

) works, whether you understand that or not. Take a moment to think. Ask yourself why I would put myself so directly at odds with you if I were scum, openly in the thread, after everything you've said today, and throughout this game. I want to help you, help all of us, win this. Step back, cool your heels a little, and don't just leap to the conclusion that fits your preconceptions. The greatest skill in Mafia as town is accepting that you're not always going to be right.

[KidAmn]

I don’t believe for a minute that Ircher would veto roles that were game breaking snd yet would allow a game with 6 anti-town parties, pro-scum posting restriction rules, a naturalist and an irresponsible townie with army surplus!
No guys...there is a max of 4 anti-town parties here. The cult leader alone plus factional kills plus the fail mahi yeets would have put us at mylo by now in an universe where Korina plays to his wincon and dont get himself chopped so easily, do you think a reputable host risks that. No, just no.

You keep coming back to "designed".

That's not how UPicks work.

At most, Ircher will have vetoed roles that were too powerful and/or likely to literally break the game, and then fired up an RNG until he got a setup that met the conditions he has stated in post 0. Sam's claimed role

does not do that

. I don't know how much harder I can beat that into your skull. If you want to argue game design, by all means, but please, can we save it for after the game and do it after we yeet someone who is actually likely to be scum?

[KidAmn]

Oh, there is a scum team in this game. Unfortunately after last night they’re 1 fewer.

Hi, I’m the Jester. I’ll give you my former buddy if y’all yeet me today.

[KidAmn]

I mean, it does not make sense to allow a role like A50s that could convert to Jester even one carrying out a factional kill, when the jester could just out their ex mafia partners.

Consider this the final proof you really don’t get UPicks.

As soon as I’m hammered, I’ll give you my buddy in twilight. My former role was Mafia Universal Backup.

[KidAmn]

Hahaha, look at this guy not even reading the game.
VOTE: KidAmn

[KidAmn]

Oh right, we're out of that timing rule now.
UNVOTE:
Run me up and I'll give you them when I self-hammer then.
I ain't mad, ironically the role you were complaining about made life much harder as scum so at least this way I get a win.

[KidAmn]

Oh right, we're out of that timing rule now.
UNVOTE:
Run me up and I'll give you them when I self-hammer then.
I ain't mad, ironically the role you were complaining about made life much harder as scum so at least this way I get a win.

Why did you pick universal backup out of all the incredible mafia roles in GIM?

Because UB is a high EV role... and I picked more interesting stuff for town/3rd party. Gotta have a little vanilla in life sometimes, y'know?

[KidAmn]

I believe kid. So we promise to elim you and you tell us the team?

Bingo. Put me at E-1 and I'll hand 'em over in my hammer post.

[KidAmn]

Then scum quick elims you and the mod is online so 0 twilight and we get nothing. Take our word for it that we'll elim you

I dunno, be very easy for you to just leave me high and dry here.

[KidAmn]

You'll forgive me if I wait a little to see if the rest of town is going to keep to it to.

I'll give you this as a sweetener - as long as you don't put me to E-1, you're safe from a quicklim.

[KidAmn]

We’ll have to find the scum on our own because KidAmn maybe jester now, but he is still scum by bond and he’ll protect his ex-teammate.

My team-mate hasn't spoken to me other than to tell me (not ask) who they're targeting each night. I don't give a shit about them, I just want a Jester win, and I'll hand you them on a platter for it.

[KidAmn]

We don’t need to but we have to or we’ll reach the final days with a trolling alien, a trolling jester and CaptainS.

I mean, I'm not saying I'll troll, but if town doesn't want to help me, why should I help town?

To be clear: I've carried out every single one of our kills because they'd rather use their other abilities and save a particularly powerful one for when they get close to endgame, because they think they can steal the win from town. Them deciding they want to be a pseudo-SK and treating me like a sacrificial lamb made me into this, so they can swing for all I care.

[KidAmn]

Yall have no idea how badly you’re about to fuck up

[KidAmn]

I can 100% with confidence say that nothing Flea could have done last night had any effect on your shot.

See? I'm helping.

[KidAmn]

I'm quite confident kid is jester here.

Oh, I'm glad you're confident.

[KidAmn]

Don't try to put doubt in me. You're acting exactly like a jester and I doubt scum claim jester here anyway

Nobody ever expects scum to tell the truth in Mafia. It's really quite sad. Here, let me do it some more:

I was scum.
I am a Jester.
I will hand over this game on a platter.
Yeeting one of my former partners won't end the game today.

[KidAmn]

I'm quite confident kid is jester here. I'm not sure what to believe from what they're saying. Maybe best to just elim Kid anyway though, take what they say with a grain of salt, Guillo tries again on Mahi, we elim whoever we think is best the next day. We'll still be left with at least one conftown if scum shoots between our current two

Yah let's do that. We always yeet KidAmn regardless of whether he fulfills his promise or not.

I try killing Mahi again or if I'm bored I grenade myself and kill my attackers, cause I'm really getting bored of this game,

it's like all odds are against us.

Welcome to UPick, enjoy your stay.

[KidAmn]

Nah, how do I know you won't all just hop off and leave little old me to lose? You run me up first, thanks.

[KidAmn]

Please, keep going. I'm massively enjoying all of this. Take your time. I'll wait.

[KidAmn]

KidAmn, we'll help you win if you help us vote out scum for a day? Fair deal?

Nuh-uh. You don't get to fuck on me and then come cap in hand. This is my world, Mr Anderson,

my world

.

[KidAmn]

Guillo is not scum. Flea might be. I don't have time right now to list everything but I will sometime tonight, even though I'm still pretty confident you're scum anyway.

Maybe you're all scum. Maybe we're just waiting for you all to realise that and lynch me, the last bastion of the town in a world gone mad.

UNVOTE: Unvote Guillo

Will read more after tomorrow but i'm getting my second Covid jab in the afternoon.

But I'm enjoying reading all this and the explanations Mahi is giving now.

Oh I bet you're enjoying this, asshole.

I'd vote you if it wasnt so much of a waste. you're practically conf anti-town.

Bold statement coming from you.

let me know if you want me to hammer

Look I'm gonna be honest my heart's not in it, I can't even be bothered to suggest you're scum. I should have just killed you Night 1 honestly. Not because of your play or anything, I just really don't like your avatar.

Simple!

A) Because my reaction to being hammered was not fake.

B) Because I didn't trust you and I still don't. Because it would be crazy to have my role and out it so you could validate and meanwhile scum could kill me for being a vigilante. VFP was ok with claiming and getting validated because he chose a harmless bullshit role, he had nothing to lose. Me in the other hand, well... I'm town's kill power. lol
o much for being a kill power.

C) because this has all been wonderful scum theatre but we can drop the pretence now, my dude. It's over.

Alright, that about covers all my blases, good luck. Oh and remember, if you hammer me while I'm asleep (BST FTW FYI) you don't get any infoooooo

[KidAmn]

Spoiler: Mahi's gym

It's weird knowing Mahi's the only person guaranteed to be neither town nor scum but also knowing town can't do anything about mahi.

What was the next stage of your plan for dealing with mahi, eh? And don't say it was crashing this plane...

with no survivors

because you're not Eldrazi, you can't crash a whole plane that's just cheating

[KidAmn]

VOTE: CaptainS

[KidAmn]

VOTE: CaptainS

Are you saying the scum if captain? (and mahi)

I might be. Release me from this game and I'll confirm it.

[KidAmn]

Guillo is not scum. Flea might be. I don't have time right now to list everything but I will sometime tonight, even though I'm still pretty confident you're scum anyway.

Maybe you're all scum. Maybe we're just waiting for you all to realise that and lynch me, the last bastion of the town in a world gone mad.

UNVOTE: Unvote Guillo

Will read more after tomorrow but i'm getting my second Covid jab in the afternoon.

But I'm enjoying reading all this and the explanations Mahi is giving now.

Oh I bet you're enjoying this, assholes.

Excuse me.

If we are going around like that then you're a cunt for voting me?

I simply commented on the state of the game and the change of tune in Mahis attitude this day phase.
No reason to call me an asshole.

I'll be voting no elim at this stage unless this asshole apologise.

read the rest of the post man, c'mon. No need for that language.

VOTE: KidAmn ^ bake him away, toys!

[KidAmn]

(yes, it's Captain, if that wasn't clear enough)

[KidAmn]

I am 100% a Jester.

But did you read Almost50's role completely?

It didn't say anything about alignment...

[KidAmn]

Might want to do that tonight, they're not a roleblocker after all.

[KidAmn]

Of course, there's also mahi. Oh mahi. If only they knew what I knew. That's a nasty little role you've got.

[KidAmn]

I am 100% a Jester.

But did you read Almost50's role completely?

It didn't say anything about alignment...

it replaces the whole role card KidAmn

you seem like a member of a scum team of size 3

Tell that to the partners I've been chatting with all day

[KidAmn]

And now you're trying to sell me out as scum too?!

yeah looks like CaptainS really is town

I didn't say anything about you TL.

I wasn't kidding about the avatar though.

[KidAmn]

Lets have another round of Scum Tells The Truth.

1. I am a Jester
2. I have had access to my factional (scum) daytalk all day
3. More than 1 other person has access with me
4. I win lol

[KidAmn]

What exactly is wrong with my avatar? I can change it postgame but I do have a version without the wizard hat.

I mean, what do you think is wrong with it?

[KidAmn]

Lets have another round of Scum Tells The Truth.

1. I am a Jester
2. I have had access to my factional (scum) daytalk all day
3. More than 1 other person has access with me
4. I win lol

Honestly if you win and end the game that would be fine, this game sucks anyway.

Who said the game was ending?

[KidAmn]

I can't believe I survived as long as I did, and managed to get myself killed when I wanted to. A shame my partner can't be on the podium with me.

[KidAmn]

Cant believe mahi was actually unkillable, i would have been mad if i was scum.

Given how off base mahi was with their reads, after some early consideration for a shot we were quite content to leave them be (or at least I was)

[KidAmn]

"Duck Season"
"Rabbit Season"
"Duck Season"