BROKEN SETUP! GAME OVER! 651

hitogoroshi · Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:51 pm

/confirm

hitogoroshi · Post Post #27 (isolation #1) » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:16 pm

I'm still trying to understand this set-up. Have there been Sense Motive games on mafiascum before? Or are we the lab rats for it? I can already tell that this is going to take a crazy sort of logic, and it'd be nice if we had something to go on as we figure out how it works.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #40 (isolation #2) » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:04 pm

The more nights, the more information. As there are more townies then scum, as time goes on the growing information will outnumber the adverse affect of a nightkill - because a nk always does the same thing, while information is more and more useful as time goes on.

I believe the math that says a random lynch is better than a no lynch is pertinent here, so I'll go ahead and

vote:Crazy

. If a no-lynch is actually effective in this situation, please post the relevant math and I'll switch my vote to a no-lynch. But, really, I'd like more information before I speculate. I'm going to play it townie, as I'm more likely to be a townie then scum (4/5 chance townie, 1/5 chance goon) but I'd like to be sure before I finish figuring this all out. A second night could do that.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #44 (isolation #3) » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:25 am

Jshark wrote:I'm really not feeling this wagon on Crazy I have reason to believe that he is town and considering the fact that there are at most three scum on this wagon I suggest that town please avoid this wagon. I have reason to believe that Skitzer is against the town and I feel that if we lynch him we will better know where we stand. If Skitzer is scum then me and Crazy are cleared while if he falls town then the town will be close to a quick win. I'm taking a chance by siding with Crazy this early, but I really feel that from I've read that we are town and this would make Skitzer scum.

o_O

Did you even read how the setup works? Did you? How can ANYONE "act town" or "act scum"? NO ONE KNOWS. (Well, if someones lynch target died, they know they have at least a good chance about being Godfather.)
And "if we lynch skitzer we'll know where we stand?" No, no we won't. It's no reveal on lynch. Please, read the rules.

My guess is, you've sensed skitzer, got an opposite result, and now want lynch him. But instead of reading the set-up, you wanted to present other reasons, forgetting that we are playing Sense Motive.

For the record, I picked Crazy because I just want to go to night so the townies can begin to assemble information and I'm pretty sure that a random lynch is better than a no-lynch.

Verbal wrote: This is an interesting stance to take. I'm going to roll with this for a moment; assume we do lynch Skitzer, and he flips scum, then we have one scum down, and it's a start for town. Assuming he flips town, we can then lynch Jshark and then we're also down one scum.

Verbal wrote:And the Godfather would not suggest something like this, as it's too risky; if Skitzer is lynched and proves town, he then dies on day 2, bringing town that much closer to a win.

Hai. We is playin Sense Motive. No one "flips" anything.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #48 (isolation #4) » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:18 am

I voted Crazy, mod. And since no lynch is not an option, and there's no information for anyone to go on, any bickering will just help scum here. Sorry, Crazy, but you got left in the random lurch.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #56 (isolation #5) » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:04 pm

I didn't do any math, but lynching will give us zero information. It will be in no way beneficial to lynch as opposed to Sense Motiveing, which will give the alignment of the target.

The bloody hell? 'As opposed to?' It's not "Do you want to lynch or sense?". It's "lynch, then we can sense".

And I kind of figured there was a chain - "I think Crazy is town and skitzer is scum", classy. But honestly I'm leaning towards them being instead a scum chain, simply because, instead of revealing the chain, you proceeded to - I don't even know what you did. Why would people who think they are a townie chain proceed to deny it and instead pull stuff like this

I have reason to believe that he is town and considering the fact that there are at most three scum on this wagon I suggest that town please avoid this wagon. I have reason to believe that Skitzer is against the town and I feel that if we lynch him we will better know where we stand. If Skitzer is scum then me and Crazy are cleared while if he falls town then the town will be close to a quick win. I'm taking a chance by siding with Crazy this early, but I really feel that from I've read that we are town and this would make Skitzer scum.

...really? REALLY?

As I'm aware, it's standard policy to lynch all liars. I'm not quite sure what to make of such a retarded story as this, but I DO know that I'm certainly not going to leave people alone because of "proof" they tell me.

Like I said, with so little to go on I advocate a random lynch to get to the second night, when the townie can actually CONFIRM chains and such. I picked Crazy because he had the wagon...and...ain't it funny that this chain springs up only when Crazy's in danger? When chains were requested, we got the stupid story I posted above, but when Crazy is in danger, whoa, lookit the nice chain. Also, Jshark was "outed" not by himself, but by Crazy. I don't think we should lynch someone because a couple of people swear he's scum. I think we should, Day 1, lynch randomly so the playerbase is more informed on Day 2 and we don't bicker when there's no information in play. These scummy methods of defense only solidify my idea that Crazy was a happy fluke - though I suppose people picked him because of his " I KNOW I'M NOT GODFATHER LOLZ" post. Huh. Kind've a coincidence, don't you think?

hitogoroshi · Post Post #60 (isolation #6) » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:26 pm

You're missing the point, Jshark. What I'm saying is that scum can't "accidentally" reveal themselves, because the scum don't know they're scum! So all we're doing is trying to find tells in a game where they don't exist - ergo, right now. How can I be defensive? Sure, maybe I'm scum - I wouldn't know. (And of course, the GF can't even be sure they are the GF.) We are not learning a lot, what we're doing is getting false "data" the scum can refer to later and dress up fake scum when it was a townie who didn't even know their role. This kind of system can't teach you anything, but it does give you data that you can make up the reasons for. That is, it'll make you think you know things when you don't. Just realize how little information is in the system right now.

However, Kabes independent verification means that the number of people in on it is four, which is larger than scum. So, sure, I'll take it. I have reservations, but with four people I at least doubt we're falling into a trap. (Frankly, if there's a scum good enough to know their scum and get three players in on a conspiracy day one, we're doomed anyway.)

So, sure.

unvote, vote:skitzer.

We need to get to night so the scum know their scum and we actually have a chance of finding tells. This is a paradoxical situation of the longer the day, the WORSE it is for town.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #69 (isolation #7) » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:35 am

Jshark wrote: You just went against your whole argument you had against us because Kabenon confirmed that our chain was town.

Yes, I did. There were three of you first, and your hiding of the chain was so tacky I didn't think it could possibly be town. But when the number was upped to four, that requires someone in the chain being town, making a conspiracy much less likely. So, yes, I did go against my whole argument, because new stuff came in to play. Notice how little everyone knows right now?

But thanks to the crazy improbable "everyone and their mother sensed skitzer" occurrence, it seems we lucked out. So thats good I guess.

As for my sense target - I have good reason to keep it under wraps. I need 2 pieces of information, and I have one. Tomorrow I'll tell you both of my targets, but right now it needs to stay hidden to the general public.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #96 (isolation #8) » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:30 pm

What.

what.

whaaaaaaaaaat. is this.

I...don't know what I'm even supposed to think about this. It seem like a retarded scum play. But the logistics of this are still a bit hard to understand, so I'm not sure.

What I do know is I do NOT trust my choices in the public thread. But anyone who's sensed me, feel free to PM.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #123 (isolation #9) » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:07 pm

I'm GF and this game is broken.

Mafia - uninformed minority vs. informed majority

Sense Motive - informed majority vs. less informed minority.

Sure, we have the kill, but they have 9 effing pieces of definitive info a day. One day, ask re: chains, one more day - it's over, town wins.

vote: hitogoroshi

Fos: setup for racism toward scum

This needs major fixes to be playable.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #124 (isolation #10) » Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:34 am

EBWOP: And I mixed up "majority" and "minority" describing mafia, completely ruining the post. Switch those. It's "Uninformed majority vs. informed minority."

hitogoroshi · Post Post #127 (isolation #11) » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:56 am

Actually the setup is "uninformed majority with a lynch vs. uninformed minority with a NK."

BS. Once you sense someone, you know they aren't going to plot against you as a FACT. And once four people have established they are on the same team - then they know 100% they are town. That happened D1 here, I think, I'd bet D2 is the norm.