Mini 718: DICTATOR Mafia {Game over!}

[Moratorium]

/confirm

[Moratorium]

And a spitball idea, take half of the list and choose from there. Why?

This makes our choice easier.

From a random sample of six, we have somewhere around 1.5 scum. Same chances, less people. We could cut it down even more, too. Any less than six, and what if we happen to pick up two scum out of four people? Ouchies. Just a thought.

The problem with this strange proposition is that there is no way to know that our "random sample of six" has the same mafia-town proportions as the original 12. So you'd be relying on pure chance that your smaller pool of 6 would have either more or less than 1 out of 4 scum in it (it can't be "the same", since you can't have .5 of a person).

Your proposition, to me, is a push, and doesn't benefit anyone.

[Moratorium]

elect: Occam

[Moratorium]

I just said I don't know who is mafia and who is scum, but I don't think Occum has given a compelling reason to elect him.

rofl has?

Let's be honest, no one has. The first two pages have been tantamount to a typical randomvote/jokevote phase.

And on that note,

unelect: Occam

Sure, we only have until next Sunday. But electing someone dictator on the basis of...

nothing

...is pretty retarded.

[Moratorium]

Pushing to get elected on Day 1...

- when no one has much information on anyone
- when mafia gets a big opportunity as dictator to get rid of some good town players early with minimal suspicion, whereas town as dictator just has a small chance at hitting scum.
- when the chance of an overthrow is very very low

...is pretty damned scummy.

I hate to say it, but this first choice at picking a dictator is a heck of a lot more important than everyone seems to be giving it credit for.

[Moratorium]

Hi, I'm Moratorium. You may remember me from such posts as Post 36, "Me so Crazay!"

- when the chance of an overthrow is very very low

Misunderstanding of the rules on my part. I read it as meaning that on Day 1, the odds are 10%, Day 2 the odds are 25%, etc. But...

Each day's first attempt to overthrow has a 10% base chance of success, 2nd attempt 25%, 3rd attempt 40%, 4th attempt 55%, etc. This means the 7th attempt and any attempts therafter has 100% chance of success.

...actually, the early days have the highest chance of overthrow because that's when the most players are still around to boost the chance of success.

A rotating dictator system might mitigate the risk of electing scum to the dictator position, so I support that idea.

[Moratorium]

Caligulaph, are you post restricted?

[Moratorium]

unelect, elect: roflcopter

we don't have time for this dictatorthon thing

my first act as dictator would be to execute occam

With the meager details we've got so far, I'm going to get on board with this. Despite post 64, I still think running an electoral campaign for dictatorship on day 1 is something that mafia would strive for to allow them a quick start out of the gates.

elect: roflcopter

[Moratorium]

anyone who thinks this dictatorthon is stupid and that we should be playing mafia instead of larping can come back to reality and help elect me dictator

Well it's been made pretty plain that you're the wrong choice to elect, as this is now the second time that you've proposed reasons to elect you that are essentially casting wide fishing nets trying to catch electoral votes from players who've expressed similar opinions.

People express reservations about campaigning for dictator, Occam was the first to do so, you state "my first act as dictator would be to execute occam". People start to express reservations about the dictatorthon, you use that in the quote above as a platform for votes.

unelect: roflcopter

Caligulaph, are you post restricted?

Caligulaph, are you post restricted?

Caligulaph, are you post restricted?

In triplicate because I was ignored the first time.

I am willing to elect the person that the town becomes most convinced of as being town.

And this is the best point made so far. I fail to see how winning a dictatorthon equates to electing the person we think has the least chance of being scummy. It feels more scum-driven, with town lazily playing along.

...bunch of people trying to find game-breaking mason mechanic...

Considering the plot twists that Machiavellian-Mafia likes to throw in his games, I would have to think that trying to play "Outguess the Mod" (tm) is especially a bad thing to do here. We should expect some strange events to occur, but trying to guess what it is specifically and act on our guesses might lead us to counterproductive actions.

I highly recommend that people take the time to read Prisoner Dilemma I, wierd stuff like prison break-ins where one of the prisoners died, everyone then suspecting the other prisoner.. This game is likely to have a Bastard Mod feeling to it, what with all the potential twists.

elect: Slysly

Expresses pro-town opinions, experience with previous M-M games, rejects playing "answer my 20 inane questions" as a means to gain dictatorship.

[Moratorium]

First and foremost, Moratorium, kind gentlesir, ladyman, or exotic animal of indefinite age, I deeply apologize for having missed your question! I apologize again for not entirely understanding what you mean by post restricted. I think I may have ignored it for that reason, actually. Terribly sorry, though.

Does anything mentioned in your role PM affect the way you are posting?

I think rofl just legitamentally doesn't like this kind of format, I suppose, based on playing with him before. He's usually is very speedy, and perhaps a bit impatient, so I could understand why he wouldn't like this kind of mafia.

Defense noted.

[Moratorium]

Posting from a Holiday Inn on my return drive from vacation, will be reading through and posting regularly again.

[Moratorium]

Quickly read the last several pages of this game since my absence, and am honestly pretty unhappy with the town play. The case on Slysly wasn't "here's why Sly is scum", it was fueled with "here's why the doc claim was improperly done". A very weak case.

Der Hammer, you'll need to explain your overthrow, because I don't see any case against Jebus at this juncture.

And why did the conversation about roflcopter/Jazzmyn completely die? Just because he was replaced by a more competent player? I just completed a game where town won because I called out the replacement player based on the actions of who he replaced.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=340

Mafia is going to win this game because the different game mechanic is making town play like chimpanzees. And not the smart ones either, the ones the lab has to put down because they keep hitting themselves in the eye with their spoons.

More when I get home.

[Moratorium]

There seemed to be discussion/confusion on the deaths that occured on Day 1, and I wanted to inject what my opinion was on the first day's deaths:

Dead
4. SlySly, Genghis Khan, Protown Doctor, executed Day 1
10. Caligulaph, Augusto Pinochet, Protown Tracker, Poisoned to Death Night 1
9. Occam, Saddam Hussein, Protown Vanilla Townie, Shot to Death Night 1

Executed: Self-explanatory
Shot to Death: Flavor typically attributed to Mafia Night Kill
Poisoned to Death: SK / VK / Special game mechanic

These are assumptions. Please make your case if you disagree with them.

So as I see it:

- Cali executed Sly
- Mafia kills Occam (Dictatorthon proposal guy, did anyone honestly have a good read? All of his posts were one-liners. Was also one of Cali's "officers", so when Cali flips town Occam might gain town trust, seems like a fairly tame cast-no-undue-suspicions night kill)
- Unknown element kills Caligulaph, either because he chose not to self-protect, or because the unknown element somehow ignored the protection. (Difficult to pin a motive without knowing the unknown element's win condition, but that said, when I saw post 239, the first thought that came to me was "Thank God I don't have to translate that guy's every post into 4 actual words of meaning anymore")

I think that the reason for Caligulaph's death is quite apparent. He said clearly that he was not going to invoke self-protection, after all, and since we now know that he was town, there is no reason to think that he was lying about that.

Just because I'm having a hard time finding it myself through all his...

language

...can you (or anyone else for that matter) please point out where he said he was not going to invoke self-protection.

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to

"trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad"

, and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

And finally, Der Hammer, who is, as you say, "your main suspect list?" Your contribution to this game has been minimal (hypocrisy noted, thank you).

I'm back from vacation and will be active in this game again.

[Moratorium]

Jebus is still my main subject and will be

close to execution

, unless someone puts forward a better argument for someone else.

19 days before deadline, why are you trying to rush this through? Discussion is pro-town.

I'd still like to hear responses to this:

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

[Moratorium]

Well I remember what you said. You said you were uneasy about Der Hammer being the dictator considering that Jebus stated he had lost the ability to overthrow, where as Der Hammer apparently gained more ability to overthrow.

At which point I quoted myself:

Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other).

And said "I'm still reserving judgement what with the site crashes, as I want to hear more from both sides, but

unease

is exactly the word I was looking for."

Then some elves arrived.. a dishwasher started running.. an ambulance siren..

..it got foggy..

...

I might be a little hazy on the ending.

[Moratorium]

The site crash didn't erase you dying, Occam.

[Moratorium]

People who have expressed a suspicion of Jebus:

Monkeyman576

- Doesn't like being questioned about Cali, "I was suspicious of Jebus because he suggested trading a town doctor for a scum, without trying to get rid of the scum without a townie death first. Didn't seem very townie to me."

Der Hammer

- "Same reason for me"

Gorrad

- "I was going to do the same if things stayed on the same track." "Frankly, I found Jebus giving weak points, in disagreement with Caligulaph on several points, who I found VERY pro-town, and also general bad vibes. I won't lie, a bit of OMGUS as well, but still. "


People who don't see why Jebus is the target:

SiestaGuru

- "Where does all the jebus hate come from?"

orangepenguin

- "thus far, they haven't really done anything yet worth overthrowing, IMO."

Jazzmyn

- "I may be out of my depth in this game but I do not quite understand the overthrow of Jebus."

Moratorium

- "Also, am I reading this correctly that the case against Jebus boils down to "trading 1:1 town:scum is always/never/sometimes good/bad", and that there are no other elements to it? (I'm reserving judgement until someone can actually confirm this for me one way or the other). "


So essentially, there is no concensus here, and if the dictator decides to ignore that and execute, it will be seen as a hostile, anti-town play. There needs to be more discussion, because everything right now is high on guts and low on details.

[Moratorium]

I'd overthrow you myself, but mine was stolen.

Jebus, can you elaborate on how you lost your ability to overthrow? Did you do something that caused your ability to vanish? Did you get a mysterious PM saying it had just magically vanished? Do you have any more details on the nature of you losing the ability to overthrow at all?

[Moratorium]

Sorry guys, I am in Germany at the moment with very limited access.

Well, that's unfortunate. And odd that you'd become dictator and then almost immediately go V/LA. Did you have an emergency reason to go from England to Germany? Or were you well aware that you'd be gone for a while without internet access?

I'd like to know exactly why Jebus is unable to overthrow.

Please elaborate on your case on Jebus.

There are two things wrong with this and both of them are it.

Please elaborate on your case on Jebus.

---

I am not too pleased that the three players who want to execute Jebus are either V/LA, or posting inconsequential one-liners and ignoring questions.

[Moratorium]

There's nothing to elaborate on. He said he's unable to overthrow. I'd like to know why.

I mean, elaborate on why you think we should execute Jebus, not elaborate on your question about his overthrow power.

[Moratorium]

Some quick numbers, evident if reading the rules, but I'm documenting anyways:

----

Der Hammer's overthrow attempt came with a 25% bonus to it. (7 out of 20 is .35, and first overthrow of the day is 10%).

Current chance to overthrow: 25% (2nd attempt of the day)
Each additional day Der Hammer doesn't answer prod: +10%

----

[Moratorium]

So Id like to see a overthrow happen, just to be a bit surer. But in that case, who would we try to make our dictator (by being the last to overthrow today). I believe moratorium has the highest chance of being town, so if we'd try to get someone as our dictator he does seem to be our best bet here.

Im not going to start this overthrowing of hammer just yet, for Id like to see your responses first.

I have a bit of a concern about a replacement player walking in off the street into an immediate dictatorship role. That concern is amplified by the fact that they would be replacing a player that is being widely viewed as scummy for his recent actions. I would be willing to overthrow relatively soon.

The problem, however, is that I, unlike Der Hammer apparently, and probably like many of you, do not have any bonuses or anything to overthrow, so it would be a 25% chance to succeed. I'd be just fine with trying this, but a failure would mean either staying with Der Hammer/replacement, or finding someone else that is generally viewed as townish. And the attempt would increase further chances to succeed, so if we don't have a candidate we're confident in, mafia could easily obfuscate the group and be dictator.

The problem with THAT, however, is that now we're townhunting instead of scumhunting, essentially wasting time.

We're in Zugswang. The compulsion to fix the situation we're in has a high probability of putting us in a worse situation.

[Moratorium]

We could always just get rid of hammer...

Let me summarize my post just previous to yours in the form of a question, because it sounds like my main point didn't register.

Do you want the towniest player, whoever you think that may be, to overthrow now, at 25%? Or do you want others to overthrow now, and have the towniest player overthrow last, to ensure that said concensus townie player is made dictator?

[Moratorium]

Well here goes, the only way we'll get anywhere is by having people give their opinions on who is scummy and who is townie in this game, so that we can come to some sort of vague concensus. So here's my PBPA. I'm sure I'm opening up a huge can of worms with this post, since people's instincts will be to "defend" themselves as their first priority, and give their own scum/town opinions as a distant second priority. Also, everyone hates PBPA's. That's fine, I guess. Have to start somewhere.

Also, i'm not asking anyone else to do anything quite this long, but a simple "Who you think is scum/town" would be nice so that we can get a good feel on who should be dictator.

TL;DR at the bottom. You'll probably only read what's under your name, won't you?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Der Hammer:

- Initially elected Occam, but quickly reverted to trying to get elected dictator. Also attempts to sully abdication, preferring to keep the dictator in power.
- Expressed confidence that Slysly was town, then following a single post from Gorrad, expressed confidenced that Slysly was scum.
- States "I'd also agree that no one should really be overthrown for the sake of it". Later, overthrows Jebus, initially without explanation, then uses someone else's explanation as his reasoning.
- Claims higher overthrow percentage as part of his role.

View: Scummy, lurkish, unresponsive, borrows other people's ideas.

-----

Korlash

(replaces christiano drago Day 2):
- States that pushing for the dictator role is not scummy.
- Elects Caligulaph based on his dictatorthon idea (which was initially supposed to be Occam's joke, ha)
- Suspects Moratorium for election pattern
- Korlash replaces in.
- Disputes Moratorium's theories on kill flavor (poison vs. shot to death)
- Suggests Jebus prove he cannot overthrow, appears to believe Jebus.
- Suggests a strategy to increase the odds of a successful town overthrow.

View: Townish, strategic, observant, peripheral

-----

Jebus

- Strange suggestion to only choose dictator from half of the players.
- Expresses indifference to a scum dictator on Day 1.
- Commie
- Competes for Dictatorship
- Claims to have had his overthrow attempt stolen.
- Suspects Monkeyman as scum, with analysis.
- Suspects Gorrad as scum, with analysis.
- Defends trading 1 scum for 1 town, regardless of power roles.
- Suspects Gorrad again when Gorrad defends Der Hammer for overthrowing.

View: Townish, analytic, bad initial theories have made him suspicious, if this was a normal game he would be the current Bandwagon target for scum.

-----

Gorrad

- Competes for Dictatorship
- Suggests Mobius-Strip Wifom theory that Slysly breadcrumbed so that he could be scummy, claim early, and out the doc, instead of just trying to breadcrumb his role to others.
- Disbelieves Slysly's Doc claim based on flavor ("Why is Genghis Khan a doctor?) and "votes" him.
- Suggests Un-Nightkillable Doctor as a theory defence.
- Agrees with Der Hammer's overthrow without explanation.
- Admits OMGUS as case against Jebus.
- Defends opinion that trading a doc for a scum is anti-town due to a role that may or may not exist in this game.

View: Scummy, theoretical, proposes scenarios as a means of furthering his view which require a fair measure of assumptions to be accepted by the listener.

-----

orangepenguin

- Defends roflcopter requesting replacement by guessing at his motives.
- Suspected Slysly based on his quick overthrow attempt, but ends up believing him due to no counterclaim.
- First to notice that Jebus lost his overthrow power on the same day that Der Hammer had a boost to his.
- Receptive to the proposed possible "Thief" role.

View: Townish, low content due to holidays, observant, not many people have quoted him for any reason so would consider this a "under the radar" player.

-----

SiestaGuru

- Elects Occam based on Dictatorthon idea/joke.
- Notes from rules that Dictator can't execute until 48 hours in.
- Supportive of Caligulaph's attempt at running the Dictatorthon.
- "Votes" MonkeyMan576 randomly on page 7. Rules confusion.
- Doesn't like Slysly's quick overthrow attempt.
- Pro-discussion.
- Attempts to suggest to Slysly how to defend himself more properly.
- Not completely convinced by Slysly's breadcrumbing.
- "Where did all the jebus hate come from?"
- Advocates overthrowing Der Hammer

View: Townish, conversational, spent a lot of time discussing Slysly's claim/breadcrumb/playstyle, has noted confusion with this particular game's rules a few times.

-----

MonkeyMan576

- States a distate for electing a dictator without more information, but elects roflcopter an hour later.
- Disagrees with campaigning for dictatorship.
- supports Dictatorthon, does not compete.
- Picks up on roflcopter requesting replacement immediately following a post calling roflcopter out on his behaviour.
- Suspicious of Slysly for power role fishing.
- Much energy devoted to arguing with Slysly.
- Very supportive of executing Slysly.
- Does not support trading 1 town for 1 scum, considers trading a doc for a scum a "last resort".

View: Scummy, argumentative, most votes/elects/FOS's of anyone, if there was such a thing in this game I'd consider him the "Mafia Leader" if only because the other scummy players in the game seem to follow his lead and suggestions.

-----

Jazzmyn

(replaces roflcopter on Day 0)
- Self-elects first post
- Disagrees with dictatorthon, proposes quick execution of later-revealed town player.
- Requests replacement immediately after being called out.
- Replaced by Jazzmyn
- Initial suggestion to elect Occam or Gorrad, semi-supports rotation of dictators.
- Not convinced by Slysly's Doc breadcrumbing, blames him as thoughtless.
- Wordy. Carefully so. "I did not say that which you have attributed to me."
- Self-assesses as finding it difficult to get a handle on this game.

View: Null tell. Difficult situation, because I started out with an incredibly scummy read on roflcopter to start, then he is replaced, then a suggestion is made that as long as Jazzmyn is careful there shouldn't be any suspicion, then everything that comes out of Jazzmyn is exactly that. Careful. Very much so. I'm going to guess SK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR Summary

Who I think is town:
- Korlash
- Jebus
- orangepenguin
- SiestaGuru
- Moratorium

Who I think is scum:
- Der Hammer
- Gorrad
- MonkeyMan576

Who I think is 3rd party:
- Jazzmyn

That's 8 town, 3 scum, 1 3rd party. 3:1 ratio town:not-town. That's a bit high for a Mini game, isn't it? So i admit I am quite possibly wrong and that there's only 2 scum. Either that, or a lot of the townies have power roles to balance out the ratio (and we've lost a doctor and a tracker so far).

At least now when the game ends, I'll get to come back to this post and read about just how wrong I was on everything. Yay?

[Moratorium]

Welcome, CarnCarn. Everything in the analysis from me above relating to Der Hammer now applies to you. Enjoy.

[Moratorium]

And why did the conversation about roflcopter/Jazzmyn completely die? Just because

he

was replaced by a more competent player? I just completed a game where town won because I called out the replacement player based on the actions of who he replaced.

What are you talking about? When was Jazzmyn replaced? What was the discussion you are referring to?

Roflcopter is the "he" I'm talking about, not Jazzmyn.

And there was some very brief discussion after roflcopter left about the fact that his abruptly asking for replacement and leaving immediately after being called out was scummy. Some have dismissed it, but I don't agree.

[Moratorium]

Also, let me interrupt you two throwing each other under the bus for just a second and get back to the central idea that Der Hammer/CarnCarn set off everyone's alarm bells with.

CarnCarn, why did your predecessor overthrow Jebus so quickly and without explanation? You know what your role is, surely you can piece together the logic of such a move? Unfortunately for you, stating "hey, sorry man, it wasn't me, please ignore everything that occurred previous to my glorious arrival" just won't cut it. It is the principal reason of your suspicion, you can't just wish it away.

MonkeyMan576, even though it's probably your scumbuddy asking you all these questions, CarnCarn did bring up several issues that you are currently ignoring. If you only selectively address issues that you think you can give adequate responses to, and ignore the others, you become all the more suspicious.

[Moratorium]

One more thing:

MonkeyMan576

, please overthrow.

You too,

Gorrad

.

You too,

Jazzmyn

.

[Moratorium]

orangepenguin is completely right that this game's Dictatorthon was completely unsuited to rofl's playstyle.

I am not a veteran to this site, so I don't have a tremendous amount of meta-read on players yet. If you could please elaborate, what of roflcopter's playstyle is incompatible with the Dictatorthon, or this particular game of Mafia?

[Moratorium]

I've found you pretty null-tell for a while, but I do not like your PBPA. Especially the end where you try and fit it into an I've-figured-everything-out setting. It's like you sculpted your list so it would fit your perfect model. That's crap. Make a proper scumlist if you want, but you have NOT broken the game this early.

That'd be pretty awesome if I did.

I've made my case. I've brought to light a few interesting things. People get to read my opinion on players, and agree or not.

Make yours.

[Moratorium]

I want to see what Carn does before overthrowing...

Why? I ask because deadline is a week away, we're getting to that point where we're going to have to sort this dictator stuff out, no one's even begun to discuss who we're actually going to execute at this point.

[Moratorium]

So basically what I'm hearing is all the scummy people going "What, Carn? Nah, he's fine, leave him be, no need to overthrow him!"

Then he mentions all the people that everyone is calling out as scummy as potential targets, and will execute one that we were wrong about.

Fun.

There's no way out of this trap unless someone takes the plunge.

overthrow: CarnCarn

[Moratorium]

I request that you abdicate tonight to Moratorium.

Guess that means I'll be killed by Mafia tonight. Thanks, dude.

[Moratorium]

I'm happy with a monkeyman execution.

This is for you, Siesta:

vote: MonkeyMan576

[Moratorium]

We have to stay with orangepenguin now. If we overthrow, Machiavellian-Mafia might not return in time to settle the overthrow attempt and still have enough time for the dictator to execute. As it stands now, orangepenguin, a very lurkish player, will only have a 12 hour window on Saturday (from 7am which is 24 hours after he became dictator to 7pm which is deadline) to execute. So it's highly possible that we will miss an execution based solely on someone not showing up.

Again, we have to stay with orangepenguin because we are out of time. If he is overthrown now, it is an obvscum move.

So we're in a terrible spot, and depending on a player that hasn't contributed all that much to the game.

I'll be honest, we town have lost control of this game. I put the probability of scum winning at something like 90% right now. I'm not giving up, but things look terrible.

We're in

Zugswang

. The compulsion to fix the situation we're in has a high probability of putting us in a worse situation.

I'm a damn prophet.

[Moratorium]

orangepenguin is the new DICTATOR! He may execute 24 hours after his overthrow post.

Wanted to confirm what I was saying about running out of time, but spotted this instead. orangepenguin's overthrow attempt was near midnight Friday morning, not at 7am Friday morning (which was when M-M resolved it). So orangepenguin has from midnight tonight until 7pm tomorrow to execute.

19 hours. Hope you don't have something to do Saturday, orange.

[Moratorium]

I am actually hoping all 3 of ours fails, and Siesta remains.

And here's the math on this, because I found this statement utterly ridiculous when I read it.

1st overthrow: 55% success
2nd overthrow: 70% success
3rd overthrow: 85% success

Chance of 1st overthrow failing: 45%
Chance of 1st and 2nd overthrow failing: 13.5%
Chance of 1st, 2nd and 3rd overthrow failing: 2.025%

The chance on all three of the overthrows failing is approximately 1 in 50. This was your plan?

[Moratorium]

No, part of this whole cascade of overthrows is on your shoulders.

Agreed.

[Moratorium]

If you see something you don't understand, ASK! If you have any questions feel free to PM me directly.

I've probably asked M-M more questions about his moderated games than any other moderator so far, and he's probably sick of me now, but I'm just going to "play by the rules", as it were...

MM, deadline extention to give SiestaGuru a chance to do something?

Extension request denied.

Mod: The length of a day is specified in the rules...

1. Each day will last a maximum of 25 real-life days, or 600 real-life hours, which is approximately 3.5 weeks.

...but there are no details about Extension requests. Are we to interpret Special Rule #1 (i.e. "maximum") as meaning that your default position is to

deny all extension requests

?

I suspect the answer is something like "Yes, and see Special Rule #10", but I'm trying to figure out whether the request was denied because SiestaGuru was no longer the dictator (and the extension was regarding allowing Siesta more time to make a decision), or whether it was just a sweeping general policy.

[Moratorium]

How in the

nine rings

does that make ME scummy?

[Moratorium]

Technically the 24 hour rule combined with a no extension policy is favoring scum as it gives them a chance to make it impossible for town to be able to lynch, which... ever since the first game of mafia has been town's only real weapon.

This essentially is the driving idea behind my question.

Although I'm simply assuming that the game has been balanced to take account for it if such a "

L

ast

D

ay

O

verthrow

D

eadzone" (I'm trademarking this...) does exist, I'd still like to know how the rules should be interpreted.

LDOD

, baby.

[Moratorium]

As for giving scum room to take it, how is that scummy? Stupid townie I could see, but for me as scum, that makes no sense.

...

Did you just offer up a "I'm too dumb to be scum" defense?

[Moratorium]

MM, summarize your case.

[Moratorium]

Mod: Can we please get some answers to the question posed in post #469?

[Moratorium]

OP, please explain your motives not to use the secret police last night.

[Moratorium]

Ya, we just lost.

Good game, everyone.

[Moratorium]

If the game isn't lost, then great.

But the fact that OP just executed with 23 days left before the deadline...

And the fact that his reasoning to not use the secret police contradicts with his reasoning to execute pretty soon after the 48 hour

moratorium

on execution.. that being wanting more discussion (have we really discussed anything at all in Day 3? There's hardly any posts...)

...makes me think I was just wrong about who scum is and that we've lost.

As far as your "killing a random townie would have won him the game", you're probably right, I just have a very bad feeling about what just went down.

Moratorium: Who is scum?

No clue, dude. Kudos to scum. Doesn't matter much unless the sun comes up and we're still alive.

[Moratorium]

Because my advice has been super-awesome so far?

If I was scum I'd keep me just because I appear to be doing a great job at leading everyone in the wrong direction.

[Moratorium]

Alternately, it's possible to break this game. We use two kills tonight. Tomorrow, we stall for 48 hours- if one of us is overthrown, we get another of us to overthrow the overthrower. As soon as we can, we execute a townie. Any townie. From there? We win.

Pretty much what happenned.