Mini 736 - The Masonry Game Over!

Jahudo · Post Post #375 (isolation #0) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:45 pm

Hello everyone! I replaced skitzer last night.

I've read everything and I agree that Zwets looks most scummy.

Day 1, I didn't like his vote to get Empking to L-1.

Zwets post 216 wrote:I didn't want to rush the lynch. I was attempting to get Empking to break down, admit he lied, and make another claim, which would have clinched that he was scum and BSing. Apparently this wasn't the case, and Reecer hammered for reasons unclear to me, but this seems more of a VI thing than scum.

This does not sound genuine to me and I don’t see how you can gamble on a player making another claim. I could understand putting someone to L-1 for reactions but you would need to make sure someone isn’t going to hammer because you need to wait and see those reactions. Reecer was a liability beforehand because he wanted to go to night (post 129).

Zwets knew full well that Reecer was a liability because he voted Reecer in post 134 and seemed to acknowledge that Reecer's attitude towards going to night quickly didn't seem to sit well with Zwets. So I don't understand why Zwets would put Empking to L-1 because he wanted a reaction, if Zwets also knew Reecer could quickhammer.

I also agree with Caboose's post 283 and RF's post 292 that Zwet's claim did not make him confirmed town. Empking's "Choosen One" flip should indicate that being mason-confirmed is a PR right, which goes against Zwets preemptive VT claim.

I also don't follow why Zwets unvoted in post 357 saying that Reecer is doing a protown thing, then jumps back on the wagon an hour later to hammer.

Jahudo · Post Post #378 (isolation #1) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:02 pm

Why'd you unvote in post 357?

Jahudo · Post Post #383 (isolation #2) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:34 pm

Are you responding to my post 378 here in post 379?

zwetschenwasser wrote:It seemed consistent with his playstyle throughout the game, but then he just went insane...

What seemed consistent? The fact that he didn't care about being lynched? Which was the reason you unvoted him in post 357? Because he didn't post in that time when you unvoted and revoted him in post 359. Where did he go "insane"?

Juls wrote:I would be completely happy with a speed lynch today because he should have been yesterday's lynch.

Do you think we are in mylo? I really don't know what to expect in terms of number of scum but I think we should be more cautious. There's a few people I have almost no read on still.

Jahudo · Post Post #388 (isolation #3) » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:13 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:What part of "I thought he was scum" do you guys not understand?

But you said he was doing a protown thing when you unvoted, then you jumped back on when he hadn't done anything different. Doesn't that protown thing still stand? And can you answer these?:

Jahudo wrote:Are you responding to my post 378 here in post 379?
zwetschenwasser wrote:It seemed consistent with his playstyle throughout the game, but then he just went insane...
What seemed consistent? The fact that he didn't care about being lynched? Which was the reason you unvoted him in post 357? Because he didn't post in that time when you unvoted and revoted him in post 359. Where did he go "insane"?

Jahudo · Post Post #390 (isolation #4) » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:36 pm

thanks

Jahudo · Post Post #397 (isolation #5) » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:43 am

Max wrote:Interesting Jahudo brought up lylo, I find that suspicious, I'm saying this now because I don't think Darox put a scum of 3 in a game with recruiting masonry. I don't think it warrants a vote, but worthy of a fos.

Who said anything about a scum group of 3? I said we should be cautious and not rush a lynch.

I am also a little nervous about having Zwet at L-1 this soon.

Jahudo · Post Post #417 (isolation #6) » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:37 am

Zwets wrote:I think I got confirmed, but apparently I forgot to take into account how nuts the mason group(s) are in this game.

Explain again how you thought you were confirmed. Empking’s chosen one flip stated specifically that his power allowed himself to be confirmed when recruited. And reading Reecer's role pm it sounds like neither him nor you knew each other's alignment. So why did you think you were confirmed?

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Max wrote:Also I'm intrigued that zwet says that Reecer is town while he votes him.

Zwet never said Reecer was confirmed town, just that he had mason recruiting powers (see: post 281). This interpretation does not sit right with me. Why did you think zwet thought Reecer was town?

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Caboose wrote:While zwet has been acting ultra-scummy recently, I would like to point out that, like zwet D1, Juls is trying to rush the lynch.

Caboose wrote:Dropping the hammer soon.

Caboose how is this not hypocritical and scummy?

Jahudo · Post Post #425 (isolation #7) » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:05 pm

Caboose, isn't it still a rushed lynch? Even if you think he's lynch worthy now, shouldn't we get a better reading on the less active players who aren't involved in a zwets lynch? I still don't see how you could want a hammer so soon.

Jahudo · Post Post #428 (isolation #8) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:50 am

Max wrote:Zwet who do you think is scum and why?

Who do you think is scum and why?

Jahudo · Post Post #434 (isolation #9) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:16 am

I don't think your argument against alcove is very clear but she should be the one reacting to it.

RestFermata wrote:Something about you doesn't seem right. I don't know if it's the way you ride the fence on everything, or the way you took off your vote before going to bed when someone suggested not quicklynching, then woke up and put it back on again after a few posts in between.

Do you have examples of her riding the fence? How her unvote and revote a scumtell in this situation?

RF: You never reacted directly to alcove's reason for unvoting. What do you think of it?:

alcove wrote:I took it off because I was going away and was worried something major might change to make me reconsider my vote.

Jahudo · Post Post #435 (isolation #10) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:17 am

EBWOP: How

is

her unvote and revote a scumtell...

Jahudo · Post Post #440 (isolation #11) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:40 am

Juls wrote:I am still waiting for someone to take me up on my offer in post 424.

Juls I don't think you've directly addressed any of Zwets defense posts today. Even if you still want to lynch him, what is your reaction to posts 372, 376, 379, and 391?

But in response to 424, I can't find a logical reason for his vote. I still say he went from finding Reecer's aloofness a town tell to a scum tell pretty quickly and without anything different happening from Reecer.

Zwets wrote:he infuriated me by actively trying to get lynched, which seemed like a ploy to get me into a WIFOM situation.

Where does he do this? I don't think any of his posts were deliberately scummy. The main reason he was put into a lynch position was his mistake of saying "I'm not pro-town nor pro-scum" which sounded legitimately bad but not an active attempt to get lynched IMO.

Jahudo · Post Post #443 (isolation #12) » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:48 am

I agree with Juls post 441 except for someone hammering Zwets yet. I want to figure out what RF is talking about.

Max:

Max wrote:Also I'm intrigued that zwet says that Reecer is town while he votes him.

Zwet never said Reecer was confirmed town, just that he had mason recruiting powers (see: post 281). This interpretation does not sit right with me. Why did you think zwet thought Reecer was town?

Max wrote:Practically every post that Zwet made said something bad about Reecer but he didn't vote, I read that as him thinking Reecer was town

Then why would Zwet say anything bad about Reecer?

Jahudo · Post Post #444 (isolation #13) » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:49 am

EBYOP: How'd I mess up that quote pyramid?

Jahudo · Post Post #453 (isolation #14) » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:24 am

RestFermata wrote:If Sebguer is scum, the correct move would be to tell you everything about why I suspect Sebguer, because scum knows the important stuff already. Unfortunately, I don't know for sure whether Sebguer is scum.

Does this have to do with night stuff? If yes, say no more.

RestFermata wrote:<snip>Not in that I fabricated it, but in that I fabricated the REASONS for it. It mostly is "something I can't quite place."

What can’t you quite place?

RestFermata wrote:I knew unvoting wouldn't be enough to extend the day. That would just delay the inevitable without really exploring other issues.

Why did you think this? Why didn’t you just ask for more time and no hammer. You were sure Caboose was the type to quick hammer?

RestFermata wrote:I know there is an underlying tangible reason for my gut feeling, and I examined some different ideas. I am aware that none of them quite fit.

So your suspicion on alcove is entirely gut? If so, why didn’t you vote Sebguer and give the same kind of reasons you gave for alcove?

RestFermata wrote:I am sure this post will make me look to some people like I was just throwing crap at the wall to see what stuck, but honestly, I think that I did a good thing.

Um, creating suspicion on a player where none exists is not a good thing. Regardless of intent you put someone in a bad light using unsubstantiated evidence. It could have misled the town and even stalled the Zwet wagon enough for people to start another. If you genuinely wanted Zwet lynched, I don’t see how you wouldn’t be straight from the beginning and say that Zwet is the lynch but we should explore other options while we have time left in the day.

Jahudo · Post Post #458 (isolation #15) » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:36 am

RestFermata wrote:Anyway, I have my reasons for mentioning the Sebguer thing. I think Sebguer has a pretty good idea about what I'm talking about. Should anything happen to me, you should get him to tell you. If he won't, it should seriously raise some eyebrows. I didn't want to blow my case on him out of proportion because I don't get any scumtells from his posts.

Okay, I still don't understand the case but maybe bring it up when you've seen something in his posts.

RestFermata wrote:Back to alcove. The thing is, I do sense something scummy when I read alcove's posts. I am getting scumtells somewhere.

Do you have any quotes in mind? I understood from replacing in read that a gut feeling emerged early on in day 1 on alcove but I don't have that strong gut feeling and I don't see any posts in particular that you can call scummy.

RestFermata wrote:I don't feel the day is ready to end yet.

What do you want to talk about?

Jahudo · Post Post #472 (isolation #16) » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:05 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:Hm... You're right, RF.

What about RF?

Jahudo · Post Post #475 (isolation #17) » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:16 pm

zwetschenwasser wrote:Alcove's posts seem... off, somewhat.

That's a very vague statement. Also, are you planning on voting anyone because right now it seems like most people want to vote for you, myself included, but it feels that you're stalling on making a case just to prolong the day.

Jahudo · Post Post #478 (isolation #18) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:31 am

zwetschenwasser wrote:I'm stalling? I'm joking around that this discussion is useless and you say I'm stalling?

You have said a number of people are scummy but you aren't voting anybody or expanding on why they are scummy.

zwetschenwasser wrote:Juls for pushing quicklynch and Sebguer for not helping.

The suspicion on Juls sounds like OMGUS to me. How is it not? The suspicion on Sebguer sounds vague. What isn't he helping with that others are? Your lynch?

zwetschenwasser wrote:Alcove's posts seem... off, somewhat.

Weren't you the one to call BS on RestFermata's alcove case? What about alcove's post 466 made you do a complete 180 on this position?

Jahudo · Post Post #480 (isolation #19) » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:26 pm

Juls wrote:@Jahudo: Who do you find suspicious and why?

Zwet. And I will add my vote depending on how he responds to that previous post of mine. He's already got 2 strikes on trying to substantiate his suspicions into a case of some kind.

Jahudo · Post Post #485 (isolation #20) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:23 am

Max wrote:He himself has been doing exactly what he is criticising and that just reaks scum. I don't have anything against people not voting but criticising someone for something that they do themselves

Because zwet threatened to self-hammer himself if we took him to L-1. And he's just self-voted. If he's scum I can see him doing this to avoid having to interact with other scum.

There's always been that risk of a jester but I see no point in keeping zwet alive if he's going to be this scummy. I am for a hammer. Anyone opposed?

Jahudo · Post Post #489 (isolation #21) » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:27 pm

If you're town I don't see how that makes Juls scum.

Jahudo · Post Post #503 (isolation #22) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:34 am

Zwet now says Juls is town while he used to think she was scum and he also wanted us to lynch her tomorrow? And zwet doesn't even mention Sebguer which by all accounts is the other person he's labeled as scum without much reasoning. Now he's just placed him in a pool of others as town. So he's backtracking on the cases he's refused to make. Goodbye scum.

Vote: zwetschenwasser

Jahudo · Post Post #505 (isolation #23) » Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:51 am

Then why are you flip flopping on your opinions of both Juls and Seb. Do you think they are scum or not?

Jahudo · Post Post #543 (isolation #24) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:11 pm

what's your win condition? is alcove's the same as caboose+seb?

Jahudo · Post Post #548 (isolation #25) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:09 am

There's also max, whatever he is. I have a feeling someone's lying about something, otherwise this day was almost pointless to have. But that's an issue for the scum after we're gone.

Jahudo · Post Post #552 (isolation #26) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:10 am

Why did the game end? I thought I still had a move. Seb was in a masonry and I could have killed him. Though I'm not sure how that could change the end result, but I assumed the all the scum were masons to begin with.

Jahudo · Post Post #561 (isolation #27) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:30 am

Darox wrote:If you and Rest recruited the remaining two mafia members, the mafia killed Max, lynched rest, then tried to kill you with a mafia member that you didn't recruit, and you targeted another member, that would leave you in a 1:1 endgame which would have resulted in victory for you. I didn't even consider this until now and it's a rather unlikely outcome, but I hope you don't feel cheated by me prematurely ending it.

I hadn't thought of that. I didn't know if there was another masonry so I wasn't thinking in that direction.

I think we all fell into the mafia's hands of accepting easy lynches and we are all guilty of that (though i was happy killing town

).

We got too complacent saying Y is responsible for X's quick lynch, get him! Wait, Z is responsible for Y's quick lynch. get him too! without looking at the other hoppers.