Mini 746: Speed Dating - I've Had The Time Of My Life (Over)

[Jahudo]

Hi, I'll be back after I'm done reading.

[Jahudo]

Ok I'm done reading. I'll return later with who I think is scum.

In the case of DGB I agree with KMD about her meta. She can act scummy on purpose to manipulate the game and cause confusion.

I understand the position of the people that voted for her because a jester is not considered a normal role and should not fall into the category of things we need to be worried about unless a jester possibility is stated explicitly in the OP (it wasn't was it? I don't see it there now).

[Jahudo]

Re: Caboose’s post 592
I’m confused because it sounds like there are individual win conditions as well as team win conditions for both factions. Town don’t want to leave with scum and scum don’t want to leave with each other.

Since the mafia flavor is “married people” it would make sense that there are either 2 or 4 mafia members, but since we have already seen a third party role, I’m guessing we have 2. So if one mafia member goes home with town, the other will too unless we have a power role that can do something about it (vig? Ressurector?).

Now on to my suspicions.
First molestar…

molestar

I've had a thought niggling away at me for a while. This might be complete crap, if it is, someone please correct me.

What if there ARE no nightkills?

This post bothers me because roffman suggested this same theory only 12 posts before you. And you commented on another issue only 2 posts after his post. This tells me you were more concerned with what you had to say than what others had to say, and you wrote post 270 without reading everything up to that point.

@molestar: Why didn’t you see roff’s theory? Did you read any of his post 268 before you made post 280?

Caboose - your case against Jebus is quite a good one.

You don’t mention any specifics, which could have allowed you to back away from points that don’t hold strong or hang on points that did. What about his case did you like?

Now KMD….

KMD

I’m more confused than suspicious of your false hammer on Zwet.
Post 160 you said you had confused this game’s mechanics with another game where you “voted WITH people at our tables”.

@KMD: If you thought you had to vote with your tablemate, then did you believe that by voting Zwet you were forcing roffman to vote Zwet too? If so, why didn’t you ask for an OK from roffman before placing a hammer.

Post 150 you thought you were in twilight and asked for people to take full advantage of the remaining time by discussing zwet’s slip and your hammer. If you still wanted to discuss these things, why did you try to end the day right then?

Next is Caboose…

Caboose

zwet, make your list I'm dropping the hammer.
EGL's doc claim looks fishy looking at roffman's point about NKs + Kmd's info.

That was the first time you stated that you agreed with the wagon or expressed any wish to join it. Prior to that post you had disagreed with the wagon and the people pushing it.

@Caboose: Was your decision entirely based on roffman’s speculation about no night kills and KMD’s vague hint? How much did you believe these things were true?

Jebus is still scummy. A bandwagon would be nice here (notice, NOT a lynch yet).

If you wanted a bandwagon, why didn’t you vote?

Jebus doesn't waste anytime flinging the bullcrap at Kmd for hammering someone that Jebus knows will flip town.

This statement cannot be proven or defended. Also, on your closest post after KMD’s “hammer” you suspected people on Zwet’s hammer and called the wagon “horsehockey”. The only difference I can make out of the posts is that Jebus pressured KMD with questions and Caboose made a vague blanket suspicion without pushing it. To me, Caboose’s post looks worse.

However, I find it very difficult to defend myself against such crap attacks vague statements as you have made and it would be much appreciated if you could give some reasoning so that we may clear up some misunderstanding.

Post 353 was overly dramatic and unnecessary. I also felt that this snippit was hypocritical coming from Caboose who made vague accusations like post 195:

FoS: Jebus
Your "case" on zwet consists of nothing but raw bullcrap.

How is it easier to defend against what you accused here than what BSG accused in post 349?

[Jahudo]

Finally MonkeyMan…

MonkeyMan

Background info…

Yeah, Zwet is still the scummiest out there, unless someone can give me a good reason why he's not. My vote stays.

Unvote: Zwet

Don't we should be lazy and lynch the doc just because his partner is scummy.

Before I thought Zwet was the scummiest, I still do, but after thinking about it we can always lynch him later. I like to think about things before acting, god forbid.

In these three posts you strongly believe Zwet is scum and are willing to lynch him. The only reason you unvote day 1 is apparently to save someone you thought was doc (not confirmed at that time).

It was the doctor I didn't want to lynch, I didn't know we had a claimed cop.

@MonkeyMan: What do you mean claimed cop? Where did you get that idea?

Aren't I glad I didn't have anything to do with the lynch of two townies...

I am not scum. You should be looking at the people who were in on the double townie lynch yesterday.

I'm saying that people on the wagon should be considered first, and that people off the wagon should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially when accusers give no reasoning for their accusations.

You did not show a pro-town mindset after the mislynch, especially one that you pushed from the sidelines without committing to a lynch vote in the end. Mislynches happen, generally because the lynchee does something bad, and voters should not be condemned just for voting. A lynch is necessary in order to play this game and townies performing lynches are playing the game correctly.

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

@MonkeyMan: Was this a serious vote? What reaction did you expect from question? It looks like a loaded question to me, one that is unanswerable.

Voting for two townies, and from what i understand, you hammered.

Why is voting for two townies a scumtell? Did you not think Zwet was scum? If you are not sure whether he hammered or not, you shouldn’t be pushing that as a point. If you didn’t fact check before you pushed a case on the offensive, you are inflated a case which is anti-town.

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

Can you elaborate on this point. You explicitly said, day 1, that you would want to lynch Zwet eventually if not on day 1. Why are you suspecting people who were also suspicious of Zwet? What did you think of their theory that a doc would be NK’ed anyway?

I suggest we start looking at those who were in on the vote, especially towards the end, and those who might be behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote).

Does post 248 fall into the category of behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote)? Why or why not?

Currently I find MonkeyMan scummiest. I want to hear his defense before I vote him.

His tablemate is molestar, who looks slightly less suspicious than Caboose and maybe equally suspicious as The Countess right now. There isn’t much to say after the first incarnation of The Countess. She was a lurker and fluff poster that made jokes instead of actually contributing and she stayed on the Zwet wagon without reaffirmed any reason why. I want to get a read from this new The Countess before I can really conclude anything.

[Jahudo]

Yes. I thought roff and I shared a vote. I didn't ask for an ok because I was ready to vote. I don't normally ask for an ok before I vote, so I saw no reason to do so here.

Did you check any of the vote counts to see if partners were automatically added when their partner voted?

The previous vote count to your hammer was on page 4, post 83. There were 4 people that had 1 vote on them, which shouldn't be possible if partners voted together. Both BSG and The Count, who were paired up day 1, and EGL and Zwet, who were paired together, had votes on separate people, which wouldn't be possible if partners voted together.

So did you not read the vote count? What in particular made you think this game had shared voting mechanics?

[Jahudo]

also, everyone seems to have dismissed the fake counterclaim? it didn't read so obvious a joke on my go through.

Where was this?

[Jahudo]

Yeah that's a joke. I've read the title fairy thread before. I think Oman says that?

[Jahudo]

Mod can you prod Monkey Man? He hasn't posted in 10 days.

[Jahudo]

Ok Ive read to. I disliked molestargazer for what I viewed as sitting on the fence attitude early day 1. However that has now been changed to monkeyman who I feel has been scummy throughout day 2. I need more of a case than "my gut". However for the moment I think mm is scum and will be voting him in due course.

Countess, can you explain this more?

[Jahudo]

Mod: Did Monkeyman not pickup his prod?

MonkeyMan is clearly active lurking because he's been posting in other games this whole time.
And where is everyone else? Hello?

I like the pairing of Caboose and MonkeyMan much better than any other possible pairing. They are my top scum of each gender. I'd like to see more contribution from everyone else, but I am very confidant in this vote.

Vote: MonkeyMan

[Jahudo]

Does everyone also agree that Caboose is suspicious? Would there be a better pairing for Monkeyman?

Is that L-1? If so, MonkeyMan should claim.

Mod: can we have a vote count?

[Jahudo]

Yes. It might even be lynch since Caboose isn't likely to vote for Monkey.

[Jahudo]

At least enough time for the mod to come back and say what's going on.

[Jahudo]

So where is Caboose?

[Jahudo]

I say go for it. This isn't lylo and I think they're scum. But you have to decide if you are confidant enough without a claim.

I personally have been thinking that there aren't power roles, because there really isn't a night stage. This could be day roles but what town role is useful when the scum don't kill?

[Jahudo]

I'm seeing a trend in the role PMs where some townies have to go home with a unmarried partner in order to fulfill their win condition, but not all townies have that.

Since it's lylo we should probably all claim at some point unless you feel there are day powers that should still remain hidden until whenever.

But specifically maybe we should find out if any remaining town are allowed to go home with a married person and still win with the town; that way we don't have to wait until our top two suspects are paired with each other.

I am happy with a monkey lynch as I have stated before.

vote monkey

What happened to wanting more than a gut case?

However that has now been changed to monkeyman who I feel has been scummy throughout day 2. I need more of a case than "my gut". However for the moment I think mm is scum and will be voting him in due course.

[Jahudo]

Massclaim?

[Jahudo]

I am okay with it too. We should wait to hear from mole star gazer, countess and KMD.

We could start with a random dice?

1 - don_johnson
2 - molestargazer
3 - The Countess
4 - Nightfall
5 - Jahudo
6 - Kmd4390

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you prod molestargazer and The Countess?

[Jahudo]

1 - don_johnson
2 - molestargazer
3 - The Countess
4 - Nightfall
5 - Jahudo
6 - Kmd4390

Original Roll String: 1d6

1 6-Sided Dice: (6) = 6

[Jahudo]

I am

Rev. Green

. I am religious and I want a wife. I lose if I leave with a married person. I win if the married people leave.

I don't have a power.

------------
We can move KMD up to #5 so the next dice role can be 1d5:

Original Roll String: 1d5

1 5-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Jahudo]

I searched acronym finder and found a British police ranking called Detective Chief Inspector (DCI). Is Max British?

It's obscure enough to make me believe it

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you prod The Countess?

[Jahudo]

I am MISS WRIGHT. Twice in the game, I can quote someone's message to the mod and he will tell me if they are lying or not.

So your a flavor cop. What's the gist of your role PM's flavor? Like, why would Miss Wright be able to know this?

You might as well use the second investigation now to see if someone is telling the truth about their win condition.

[Jahudo]

Kill me then, you'll see I'm telling the truth, I'll have done my part, and you can look at those who wagoned me and exclude the person I've cleared.

Unless "The Count" was married I think this has to be lylo.

It's an unusual gambit to role claim a flavor cop when mole presumably wasn't high on people's suspect lists. Being last to claim would allow scum to decide if another power role would look normal, and I think it actually does because as far as I can tell only MonkeyMan had a power. It would make sense for there to be at least one other right?

Right now the only person I think is scum is The Countess for lurking, fluff posting and staying way under the radar this whole game. V/LA and replacements seems to have taken some of that inactivity but we have learned basically nothing about what that role slot thinks so I have no reason to think he's pro-town.

[Jahudo]

DJ is the only one that can go with married people and his character is female, which means we'd need to pick a male we think is scum.

mole is also female so if he investigates a female and gets guilty we know one of the two is scum. If he investigates a male and gets guilty he could be bussing in order to look confirmed. But investigating a male helps us decide who to pair up with DJ.

[Jahudo]

Anybody know if mole star uses gambits like this? It would seem kind of an unnecessary risk to fake claim if he wasn't in danger of a lynch.

[Jahudo]

I know who I want him to check but I also want to see his reasoning.

[Jahudo]

I know which I think is more likely scum between the two, but it really doesn't matter which you check. I'll withold my opinion for after you have your results.

This.

[Jahudo]

Which leads me to believe that any information about The Count and The Countess is going to be blocked, no matter what we do.

What? Why? Did The Countess know that would happen?

Did you lose your investigation then?

[Jahudo]

I'm still believing moles claim. It seemed unnecessary for him to pull a gambit there unless he was bored with the game and just wanted to end.

Could scum have a roleblocker?

If they did, it would only be useful in targeting moles or monkeyman since they are apparently the only ones with roles. Maybe the count and countess have passive ability powers too.

[Jahudo]

Why do you think the countess is more likely scum with the count than anyone else? Unless this is a test of occam's razor, I think the chances are random.

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you prod The Countess?

I think there's been two incarnations of The Countess and neither has posted much at all, but when they did post they were passive, indirect and secretive: which is think is anti-town. Maybe it's the hassle of going to the alt-account; maybe they were both newbies that flaked. I doubt a post-restriction is involved; lurking / flaking seems more likely.

@DJ: Are you saying that by page 30 you don't have a town read on anybody? I find it hard to believe that you have three people leaning scum and two null. As scum, that would open you up to agreeing with anything easier.

I need to go back over DJ now because his last post doesn't look good.

[Jahudo]

I can agree that this is a convoluted game that never got to a good tempo and was bothered by people like DGB, but I can at least name two people other than myself that I wouldn't vote for right now (mole and kmd).

I keep thinking back to The Countess and why the investigation failed. The easiest explanation I can think of is The Countess has a passive ability that blocks investigations. If that's so then she lied during massclaim and only scum would do that.

If scum have a blocking power I don't see why they wouldn't use it on mole in that situation regardless of Countess' alignment, but that seems like a random role for scum to have if mole is the only role threat to them and he can only use his power twice in the game.

So I think this is another point against The Countess because I don't believe scum have a blocking power.
So yeah, I'm back to Countess/Nightfall.

[Jahudo]

What are the chances she didn't know about her passive ability?

I'm not sure how it would work flavor-wise since the alignments and roles have affected flavor. I don't have much experience with "mod notes" although I thought they had more to do with secret sanities or the effectiveness of one's own role, not how other roles affect you.

They could have blocked Monkey too.

I'm not sure what is role is but I think he could have went away with his tablemate at anytime during the day? That doesn't seem like a risk to scum unless they've already been outed.

[Jahudo]

seems like kind of an irrelevant question when i have laid out my choices already.

mole/countess

Mole and countess are both women in this game. We aren't in Iowa, are we?

Mod: Is same sex marriage legal is this fictional world?

[Jahudo]

Let's talk about how this...

You are saying that town loses by leaving with scum. I do NOT see that in my Role PM at all.

Doesn't match with these...

I lose if I leave with a married person. I win if the married people leave.

Win condition matches Jahudo's and Nightfall's.

[Jahudo]

Which time did you misread it? Before massclaim or after?

[Jahudo]

So was this written from memory? Is everything else right?

I'm DCI Dixon.

Win condition matches Jahudo's and Nightfall's.

I'm a cop, but just for flavor purposes. So really, I'm just a normal townie

[Jahudo]

I'm a little concerned with this considering KMD made a deal about what his role PM said day 1 and he forgot it later on. I know its possible that time passed and stuff happened but it seemed like an area he was focusing on at one point. He said this:

I have a theory, but it's probably best we stop talking about it.

He said this when he wanted to stop the conversation about win conditions and I'm wondering if you remember your theory KMD?

A Countess/KMD lynch is my top choice now. I still like the chances of Countess being scum and I don't see a DJ-Nightfall pair happening.

[Jahudo]

As it stands that's fine too. We would need to make sure activity doesn't drop to zero while we wait for a table rotate. We need to hear from Countess anyway, and where the heck did Mo Lest go?

[Jahudo]

II think that with The Count's death, there's only 1 scum left alive. If it isn't either of you two, it's not game over, and we lynch the Countess.

Who is the either of you two in this quote? If the count was scum this quote only makes sense if you are accusing either of DJ and yourself as remaining scum.

[Jahudo]

Yeah, probably. I don't understand why he would consider a The Count / Nightfall scumpair since they're both dudes.

[Jahudo]

Vote: DJ and Nightfall

[Jahudo]

Well our mod's not rotating the tables so we might as well just play out the game. I still don't think scum are paired up if we even have 2 scum.

Last we heard Countess wanted to vote for herself and KMD. I want to know if that's true or if she goes after DJ/Nightfall.

[Jahudo]

I could have said Countess' preference better but the end result seems to be the same. You said you didn't mind whatever decision was made, since you hadn't been reading as closely as others, but that you thought kmd was scum. And since KMD is paired with you right now it only made sense to me that you would prefer to vote for someone you thought was scum than to save yourself by voting people you were less sure about in DJ and Nightfall.

I guess no one wants to leave the game but at this point trading 1 scum for 1 town is favorable to risking two townies.

Which brings me to the reason (I think) KMD and I put DJ/Nightfall to L-1. The countess didn't hammer so I see no way Countess is scum with KMD. I didn't think they were before, but now I am completely confidant.

And in that vein I don't know what "scum powers" DJ could be warning about so I can't speculate on how we'd lose the game even if we nail scum today. It seems like an argument over nothing. If DJ has any evidence or ideas to a scum power he should probably share it now.

[Jahudo]

As for DJ and Nightfall, DJ Im currently fine with, Nightfall Im less sure about.

So your saying you think DJ is town while Nightfall could be scum? If that's the case what do you think about moles, or do you think one of the is scum but doesn't show it?

[Jahudo]

@Countess: What does mole having a connection with monkeyman mean? Monkeyman wasn't scum.

@KMD: Countess can't be scum with DJ because they are both women in this game.

If she was scum with Nightfall she could have hammered and gained townie points but between her and mole the rest of us had been leaning on her, so bussing wouldn't have guaranteed a victory. Her non-hammer gives me alot of pause though. I want to look at some moles posts again.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, do the scum

have

to be opposite genders?

Yes, I am confidant in that. When the mod said this:

It may be, who knows, but if you're into that kind of stuff I suggest you go rounf the corner, the gay village is still open you never know you might get lucky

I took it to mean that this "speed dating club" is for heterosexuals. The "It may be" refers to same sex marriage laws of the fictional town/state/country, but that doesn't answer the laws of the speed dating organization.

[Jahudo]

Oh i see. You think there could be scum-female from marriage A and scum-female from marriage B, or scum-male from A and scum-male from B.

In that case I don't know how they could know each others identity and we really wouldn't be playing mafia :/

[Jahudo]

How do you figure?

I guess they could be friends/co-workers/neighbors that are married to people not in the game. But if that is the case, why would they be working together as a team?

The only way is if they came in together, and if that's the case, why not leave together? The only role that had that condition was DGB. And that's obviously jester, not scum. So you're probably right then.

Do we know that the scum win condition is to commit adultery? It makes sense in mafia terms that we're trying to lynch them any way we can (one at a time or both now) but if our win condition says we want the scum to leave, wouldn't that mean we also win if they committed adultery but not with us (for those people that lose if they go with scum)?

So what is the scum win condition if we want them to leave?

These are actually questions I don't think we can answer and aren't very interesting. This setup is bizarre and I'm ready to finish the game and see what happens.

[Jahudo]

KMD and Mole are voting for DJ/Nightfall
DJ and Nightfall are voting for KMD/Countess

I'm going to unvote

unvote

because maybe mole/kmd is a better choice. I'm starting to have a stronger suspicion on mole so if necessary I don't mind leaving with him now.

[Jahudo]

alright.

Vote KMD

[Jahudo]

Yeah I don't have a good excuse for wanting to hammer.

I just have to hope that the count was scum or I'm right about mole. If there's a game tomorrow definately go after DJ/Nightfall.

For what its worth,

unvote;
Vote: Nightfall

[Jahudo]

@DJ

10 - During twilight, everyone may talk until night falls.

I was gonna claim cop (although it really was just flavor) with innocents on Jahudo/Molest and "no result" on The Countess. That would make Don/Nightfall scum by default. If I was right, it would win the game. If not, well I'd look like a dick.[/quote]
I think KMD is saying he is a vanilla but at one time he thought about fakeclaiming Cop. It's a dangerous gambit, but that's all in the past.

[Jahudo]

EBWOP:

I was gonna claim cop (although it really was just flavor) with innocents on Jahudo/Molest and "no result" on The Countess. That would make Don/Nightfall scum by default. If I was right, it would win the game. If not, well I'd look like a dick.

I think KMD is saying he is a vanilla but at one time he thought about fakeclaiming Cop. It's a dangerous gambit, but that's all in the past.

[Jahudo]

The alright was in response to this:

honestly, jahudo, with countess voting her table partner this should be an easy decision. one of the two of them is most likely scum(if not both). mole can wait.

It made enough sense to me at the time and I noticed I was the only person not voting so I figured everyone was giving me the go-ahead.

That actually reminds me of DHSDSM alpha. I was given the go-ahead to decide the game by hammering someone, but I didn't because I hadn't seen the vote count say I would be the hammer. I was scum in that game but I played it cautious because in the back of my mind I didn't want to think I was hammering when a misspelled vote didn't count.

It's the same here because we hadn't had a vote count in a while and people were trying to double vote. If I was scum, that would be at the front of my mind again.

[Jahudo]

Only KMD was in that game but he wasn't alive at endgame so here's some links:

Where I didn't hammer: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 00#1670700

Causing Orto to think I'm town: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 19#1670719

And RW thinking I'm town: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1670765

Then comes the vote count: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 14#1670914

And finally I hammer once I know I will be the hammer: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 71#1671071

[Jahudo]

There's no way I would try to hammer as scum unless I knew for sure it would be a hammer, as evidenced by that alpha game.

But as town I'm bored with trying to figure out who is scum so I just wanted to end the game.

[Jahudo]

I thought I was given the go-ahead to hammer since everyone else was voting for someone. I was the tie-break and I had to make a decision.

Even though I haven't posted my notes, I have re-read this thread enough for one game and I still don't feel very confidant in mole/nightfall but that seems to be the only pair possible now that I know KMD isn't scum.

And I voted in that exact post because Countess and DJ had already made their cases and I trusted them being town. I had no one left to argue with but myself.

[Jahudo]

1. In this game I didn't care if the double votes counted but I assumed they did since we are really voting for pairs. But I felt like I was the tie-breaker because everyone had made their suspicions known through votes.

As scum I probably would have PM'ed the mod to a vote count first, or at least to ask if I was going to be the hammer.

2. I didn't trust KMD when he forgot his win condition, which helped me transition from Nightfall to KMD. When I voted I was confidant that me/Countess/DJ were right about KMD being scum.

3. I don't have any notes to post from when I've re-read the thread.

[Jahudo]

My previous post was a response to 863.

Then why not post reasons? If you were right, the game was going to continue into the next day. You already implied that you wanted to end the game though. So what made you think the game would end? Did you think you were lynching town or did you think The Count was confirmed scum?

1. I wouldn't have needed a reason if I was right about you since we couldn't be scum together. I was prepared to accept blame if I was wrong.

2. I meant that I didn't want to wait a couple weeks for the table to shift and align you with mole. If you flipped scum I would not believe you could be scum with DJ so lynching mole next would be easy.

3. Of course if I was wrong about KMD then I would have done the town a disservice by not waiting for a better pairing, but again I really trusted Countess' sudden burst of confidence.

4. Can we have an avatar bet over whether or not I'm scum?

I know I should just shut up and accept my fate, but this is fun

[Jahudo]

Lol. My previous post was a response to 865. This post is a response to 867.

Why didn't you question Nightfall's vote when it first happened?
Better yet, why did YOU vote a pair originally?

Even better, what made you change from voting the Don/Nightfall pair to voting me? Don must be your buddy, right?

1. As town I'm not worried about the repercussions of trying to hammer and failing. Maybe in the future I should be more worried.

2. Great, now I can't even go down with the person I think is scum? I'm letting you know in advance that if you want to play the WIFOM game here I'll play it right back.

What does that even mean?

Ok, you addressed the switch. Why not bring this up when you voted? Why wait until you are likely to be called on it?

It would have looked cool if you had flipped scum. Like, Die scum! And then you are scum.

Do you normally hammer as town without reasons when you expect the game to continue? Actually, you said you wanted to end the game. And you still haven't addressed why you thought ending the game at that time would have been good for the town.

1. No, this is a new thing for me.

2. The hammer would have either lost the game for us or won the game for us, wouldn't it have? It really was an anti-town move. But look on the bright side, it clears you as town

-----------------
Ok, now post 869:

What? Bad logic.

Yes. I was acting irrational.

Why are we hearing this for the first time? And why couldn't I be scum with Don? Do I come off as someone who wouldn't bus?

I thought that with your combined effort you could have pulled off a Countess/Nightfall lynch like I totally wanted to do.

That's a scum claim, right?

No.

[Jahudo]

Again, why didn't you question Nightfall's vote when he voted? Again, why did YOU vote the Nightfall/Don pair as a pair and not as a player?

Because I was ready to show who I was siding. I was the only one not to do it. Regardless of whether anybody's vote counted, we had all decided which way to vote.

I like WIFOM games. /in. You had the choice to lynch either the Kmd/Countess pair or the Don/Nightfall pair. Now, your vote suggests that you thought you were winning the game.

I thought I had caught 1 scum while knowing I had the chance to catch the other tomorrow. So yeah, I thought we could win the whole game that way.

Because scum who is last alive is more careful and will explain their vote.

I agree. Someone who hammers without explaining the timing of the hammer in that post will look suspicious if 1 scum flips and the hammer expected it to happen because they were already publicly bussing by that point. That doesn't apply with me because I said Countess was town and I was voting for you. Even if I didn't give reasons, I think I made it clear I was voting you.

Town would think a little and probably not vote in that post. And if they did, they'd explain because you voted Don/Nightfall before.

Both as likely since I was given the tie-breaker. I was the only undecided and until someone unvoted, you would want to convince me. I didn't need any convincing anymore, because I talked it over with myself and we both decided it was good enough to represent the people that gave me the tie-breaker.

You'd at least want to think. And you unvoted at a time where your buddy would be out of danger if you just unvoted and switched to me.

When I unvoted I had singled out mole as scum. You were voting along with him and had some suspicions on you because of win con. That's why I said the pairing looked more interesting than DJ/Nightfall.

I only wanted DJ/Nightfall because I thought it contained 1 scum and 1 town that was allowed to go home with scum. The only difference with Countess/KMD was I thought it had 1 scum and 1 town willing to sacrifice for the greater good.

And when you had the choice, you picked The Countess and myself. So you have to be scum and your partner is Don or you'd have had no reason to want to lynch Kmd/Countess over Don/Nightfall. So the WIFOM would indicate you and Don have to be scum.

If that's what you want to think, go ahead. You'll see I didn't think he was scum but I was willing to lynch him because his win condition allowed him to win if he went home with scum. That's a good reason to vote for someone paired with Nightfall-scum since I didn't want to wait 3 weeks for a table switch.

I would have been a whole lot more pro-town if we could vote for an instant table-switch. It really killed my endurance

XD. I guess so. Kind of reminds me of a time when SensFan hammered DarkCoffee or whatever his name was very early in Day 1 without a claim. Then Dark flipped scum. Sens went on to (kill me of course and then) win as scum.

I see what you did there, comparing me to scum. Hahahahaha, whatever town.

Seemed to be. Are you telling me that as town, you are willing to be lynched and lose the game? Or are you that confident that Molest is scum?

I'll get back to this in my next post.

[Jahudo]

I'm Reverend Green, townie. Would a holy man want to commit adultery? Unless molestarbucks is an altar boy, I rest my case.

[Jahudo]

That sounds like active lurking. This should be an easy decision for countess and nightfall.

[Jahudo]

I do not think Countess is scum and it doesn't make sense how she could be scum with me given this:

The DJ/Nightfall pair was in hypothetical L-1 here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 81#1706681
and Countess did not try to hammer.

So unless she knew pair voting didn't count, she could have hammered and won the game if she and I were scum. Even this doesn't make sense because Countess and I were scum together, I'd think she would tell me not to count pair voting as a legit vote. And she might also tell me not to bus her after people thought she was town for not trying to hammer DJ/Nightfall.

[Jahudo]

EBWOP: She could have hammered and *thought* she had won the game if she and I were scum.

[Jahudo]

Mod: Please prod The Countess

Come on people, let's get our act together. Nightfall is as good as caught scum!!!

[Jahudo]

i'm not scum

[Jahudo]

FYI: I'm not going to self-hammer.

[Jahudo]

jahudo: how do you feel about your tablemate?

Good in the sense I think he is scum, but bad in the sense that regardless of whether I pick correctly or not I'm still going to lose.

[Jahudo]

It's clear to me that Countess can only be scum with Nightfall, and even that I don't believe anymore. So I have a hard time understanding where mole is still confident about Countess being scum. She didn't hammer, so she can't be scum right?

And KMD can't be scum unless he knew double voting wouldn't count. He thought I had hammered and won the game, so if he was scum why say that to someone that couldn't be pinned as scum with him?

So the way I see it is this:

Countess could be scum with Nightfall
mole could be scum with Nightfall or Jahudo
DJ could be scum with Nightfall or Jahudo

I don't see how scum-Jahudo would have any chance of winning at this stage. If I were to flip scum and you knock out either mole or DJ today, you either win the game now or win tomorrow because I can't be scum with Countess.

And I'm not trying to WIFOM you out here because even if scum-Jahudo were to trick you into lynching 2 townies today, scum-Jahudo would still have a game tomorrow because of the page 1 ruleset:

6 - A lynch requires a 50%+1 (Rounded down) majority vote. A no-lynch requires 50% (Rounded up) of the votes currently in play. If a deadline is reached, no lynch is achieved.

So if we still have 2 scum tomorrow they can't win the game until they make 1 townie pick incorrectly.

So how about it? Lynch Nightfall first DJ (because he can go home with scum)? You have nothing to lose here by doing this.

[Jahudo]

EBWOP: Lynch Nightfall first with DJ

[Jahudo]

Yes, we're at L-1.

[Jahudo]

Your right actually. My scenario doesn't account for how the 2 town can break the tie so unless there's a deadline lynch we should assume 1 scum has to be gone by the end of today.

I'm back to being fine with a mole lynch.

[Jahudo]

I'm town. Let's hope that count was scum.

[Jahudo]

The best play was by DGB.