Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I hereby understand and confirm my role.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Vote: afatchicfor the absolute worst case I've seen of sucking.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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And the thing wrong with that is?millar13 wrote:Battousai wrote:Vote: Millar13for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage
FOS:BATTUOSAISTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Exactlyafatchic wrote:
That's a nice OMGUS you got there.StrangerCoug wrote:Vote: afatchicfor the absolute worst case I've seen of sucking.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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By that same token,millar13 wrote:
I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.PStrangerCoug wrote:
And the thing wrong with that is?millar13 wrote:Battousai wrote:Vote: Millar13for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage
FOS:BATTUOSAI
so doing so was a scum tellYOUcould be scummy for trying to start serious discussion at the earliest possible moment. I don't see anything serious about Battousai's vote, nor do I see anything wrong with applying tactics in the random voting stage since truly random votes, e.g. voting with dice, are actually frowned upon. Random voting does not last forever as Mafia is not a game of Russian roulette. Therefore, I'm questioning the validity of your FoS.
Unvote: afatchic
Vote: millar13
Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Uh... Go through my thought processes in post #34 again.nKorlash wrote:How can miller be blamed for trying to start serious discussion after Battousai already made it serious? seriously SC...STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Explain how that's applying tactics, Korlash.Battousai wrote:Vote: Millar13for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Whom are you talking to?millar13 wrote:Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Wait a minute—shoot me if I know why this from post #42 blew past me.
How can you simultaneously think that I'm both townie playing too aggressively and Firestarter's scumbuddy? I am sorry, but even if the argument on whether you or Battousai was trying to employ tactics in the random voting stage is complete trivia, your logical fail is giving me good reason to leave my vote where it is.millar13 wrote:Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.
As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment
And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"
And I still think you should be bandwagoned. You're cracking under pressure. Town should not be doing that.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Regardless, you really need to watch what you typemillar13 wrote:I clearly made an error...I meant to say that Firestarter was a scum member (not scum partner) I have no reason to beleive that yourself (Strangecoug) is actually aligned with that.
Your commenting about how you fear looking scummy is cracking under pressure.millar13 wrote:Am I cracking under pressure? Not that I noticed.
Firestarter may simply be playing more cautiously at this point than I am. His most recent vote was on afatchic, which I assume is his second random vote, which he pulled. He has yet to vote you, probably because he's trying to get more information out of you. (He does suspect you.)millar13 wrote:And believe it or not Firestarer comment in Post 49, actually indicate what i feel about wagon's in the early game...even if I am convinced he is the most likely scum member at the moment. Although, not enough active players have sprouted to give a fully loaded judgement.
Why do you believe I am town over scum?millar13 wrote:Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison. With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I personally thought it was just as any other random vote would be, but you sufficiently answered my question.Korlash wrote:How is it not applying tactics?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm sorry, but your name does not ring a bell outside of an ongoing. Who did you use to be?millar13 wrote:In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Once again, youmillar13 wrote:I'm not saying I played with you a number of times. I am just saying you came off loooking like generic town players; whom I have player with a number of times.REALLYneed to watch what you're saying. I thought that you meant I was playing as I specifically, rather than your standard everyday scummer, do as town. The more you blunder your way through this game, the less likely I'll think you're town.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Firestarter wrote:Hmm... Ok..
I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...
UNVOTE: millar13
MAJOR FoS: millar13Minor FoS: Firestarter. Don't be so quick to retract a vote.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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And the reasoning you give for it is extremely vague, especially since you said people bandwagon regardless of alignment. I know I left out the overeager part of it, but your leaning a specific way on what you essentially consider a null tell is still really disturbing.millar13 wrote:SC looks town to me.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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What meaning does "generic townie" have to a game of Mafia? Is there such a thing as a generic person in real life, for that matter?millar13 wrote:Only saw Post 85, after I post 86.
That is actually a really good point Battousai. Maybe Strangecoug doesn't think the "generic townie mould" as I previously thought. Mhmmmm *literally rubbing my chin*
Yes, I've been known to go hard on players. Very hard. I understand that nobody in this game is God, but neither does anybody have the right to blunder through the game like you are without expecting at least some scrutiny.
Besides you, Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.
It is my fault that I misinterpreted the second thing I called millar13 out for. As I said above, no one in this game is God, and I regret having committed that error. There are other things I'm pressing on him for, however. His voiced fear about looking scummy is quite more telling than posting something that a third party reads in error.Battousai wrote:All I have to say is, strangercoug is taking this way too seriously. The first blunder, yes I can see how it could be seen as scum mistake or even a Freudian slip with Firestarter, but the second one. Come on, I understood what he meant, and even if you didn't how is saying I played with you a lot scummy. And then you threaten him for not being as clear.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Read what you quoted again, even if it's obsolete.Firestarter wrote:
Hang on for a second...StrangerCoug wrote:Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.
Ive explained why i retracted my vote, its as clear as day.
Other than what Ive explained, how else am I "off?
Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.Isacc wrote:Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.
And you're not saying who it is straight up because?Firestarter wrote:We just found millar13's scumbuddy...
I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.millar13 wrote:Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game
I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to anFirestarter wrote:Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.HoS: Firestarter.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off. The case itself is good, though.millar13 wrote:Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Your mouth was not where your money was, or however the saying goes. If you want to argue that you're not the kind of person that uses FoS's, then go straight ahead.Firestarter wrote:1.I dont need to read it again, you explained that I answered about the vote/unvote of millar13, I wanted to know why you were still keeping an "eye" on me, as you did not make that 2nd point clear.
Understood.Firestarter wrote:2.This post came straight after Isaac's post attacking me with the exact same horseshit millar13 posted. Not only that, but there was very little content about anyone else.. very little. Sounded defensive of millar13, and I like to pressurise where I can.
I do not pay much attention to whether or not people are on, but nevertheless I think it's scummy to force people to do stuff or else. The two-hour time limit gave me that impression. What if you toldFirestarter wrote:3.At the time, millar13 was online with me, and we were posting within minutes of each other. Is it so unreasonable to think he was still there when I posted that post?
Not only that, but he blatantly refused to post his case as requested by me several times. This is clear SC.
You placed a HoS on me for asking for millars case, which he blankly refused to do, yet I get the HoS... ?????ME"you have two hours to post a case on me or else" and I don't read it until after the two hours elapsed because I had to get off and let someone else have a turn (currently something I have to do), or worse yet, go to bed because I had to work early?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Mod: I generally use bold capitals for emphasis, so if I forget about what you said could you unbold what you don't want bolded for me?
I understand your frustration, but this is not a good strategy in Mafia.millar13 wrote:From now on I am IGNORING you.
From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other. Firestarter is going downhill at this point, and while millar13's gotten better, there are still some black marks on him that I'm not going to forget about anytime soon.
Unvote: millar13. This is L-2.
Vote: FirestarterSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure latelyFirestarter wrote:I see more unreasoned accusations SC...
Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.
Any particular reasons?
Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight. (If they're tied, I'll pick the one I'm more confident in.) I wait for nobody.Firestarter wrote:And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?
Or is it merely tactical?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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OK, Firestarter, what the hell? I did say that millar13's been getting better, but he's still suspicious in my mind; if he weren't, I would not have made the bussing accusation. If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.Firestarter wrote:@ Strangercoug
When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?StrangerCoug wrote:Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.
This is the first time I suspected you:Firestarter wrote:You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.
I said you were too quick to retract your vote, and you said that you voted too quickly. I believe that much from you.Firestarter wrote:Hmm... Ok..
I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...
UNVOTE: millar13
MAJOR FoS: millar13
I would have voted millar13 on this alone, but millar13 already did some things that set me off. Your hesitation to vote him when he was clearly acting scummy comes off to me as defending a scumbuddy, and we all know the bad that comes out of that.Firestarter wrote:3.Ultimately All means you have nothing to go on?
Ultimately is described in any dictionary as...
as the end result of a succession or process
You said that this was directed at Isacc. Just from looking, this is pretty much OMGUS.Firestarter wrote:We just found millar13's scumbuddy...
Lining up lynches for the lose.Firestarter wrote:Lynch me, and when I flip town, lynch him.
NOW do you think my accusations are unreasoned?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Apparently, Sajin defines bussing a little more strictly than I do. I think your case on Firestarter is great, and I believe most of it, but you're doing things yourself that's setting off alarms. That's all I think I need for a bussing accusation—you can be the first person to vote somebody and still be bussing that person.millar13 wrote:SC I don't think I am bussing at all, my attitude towards Firestarter really hasn't changed for the entire game. The fact that I was the first person to point to him, and the first person to bring any sort of view of scumminess sort of shows that. If you think it is because I wasn't the first too vote then your wrong. The truth is, that if I had voted first it wouldn't have been as effective or made as much sense as if I had actually waited for what my fellow town members had to say. If I am right, this is a team effort?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.Firestarter wrote:There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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No. The post you're talking about is a good case against millar13, who in turn has a good case against you. However, for at least the third time now, I think you and millar13 are bussing each other. Because I've called both of you out for your actions, I believe that I have made a logical deduction.Firestarter wrote:SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?
Also, I am not worrying about myself; I am trying to figure out how you think Isacc and I are connected, as I do not know. I am one of those "tell me, damn it" types of people, and not only does dodging my question like that tell me absolutely nothing useful about what you think about us, but it hurts the town more than it helps it.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Well, the basic idea was there anyway.Firestarter wrote:I was told I was so and so, I was not told I do such and such.
How so?Firestarter wrote:sajin looked ok early on, but the more I read his posts, the more I got a bad vibe from him.
Dude. Wake up. I am not going back and forth between the two of you. I suspected originally millar13 only, and then both him and you. My levels of suspicion have changed, but they're changing at a rather constant rate. They haven't been fluctuating much like you imply.Firestarter wrote:SC.. I dont know.. Seemed to go from M13 to me, M13 and back to me again... It could be considered a scum gambit, voting and being suspicious of the 2 in the biggest battle so far, and waiting to see who loses.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You have accused me of certain things specifically (we know what they are), yet Sajin is scummier than me based on gut. This is making absolutely no sense to me.Firestarter wrote:SC, I get bad vibes from sajin, that is all atm.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Blast you, those were my two big leads >< Of the actives besides them, probably Isacc forLindisfarne wrote:Stranger, on page three you goofed, you said firestarter hadn't voted for millar at all, and his last vote was fatchic. Wrong, his last vote WAS on millar (post 35). Unless, I've misread that is.[/url]
Oops.
I'm sorry, but it takes more than "you're overdoing this" to get me to relax the pressure.Lindisfarne wrote:Ok, fire and stranger riding millar was working. he was breaking, but you guys took it a bit far. You were nitpicking over really inane things, like his wording.
Lindisfarne wrote:I would like you to pick a person who is most scummy to you right now, and explain WHY they are scummy.
The catch: NO ONE pick Millar or Fire.ad hominem.
Mod: Please prod GhostWriter.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:Isacc wrote:@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<
I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.Isacc wrote:You.
Cannot.
Read.
Go.
To.
Kindergarten.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.Korlash wrote:Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That is true, but also, Lindisfarne asking me who my top suspect other than Firestarter and millar13 is made me go back and reread. Isacc is the only other person to post something I found objectionable. I'll tell you that the lurkers need to be yelled at as well, though (I specifically said "of the actives" in my response). If you ask me, advocating a lurker lynch is something to be done as a last resort let alone on Day 1.Sajin wrote:
I think he agrees with the sentiment but not the implementation, FireFirestarter wrote:StrangerCoug wrote:
This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:Isacc wrote:@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<
I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.Isacc wrote:You.
Cannot.
Read.
Go.
To.
Kindergarten.
SC, why are you picking out a point with Isaac, only to seem to agree with him afterwards?StrangerCoug wrote:
I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.Korlash wrote:Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...
I'd hate to change the subject from Isacc, but I agree that it's a minor thing I'm getting him on, and something else is getting on my nerves right now that I have yet to bring up: Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Mod: Please prod afatchic.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.alexhans wrote:I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.
FoS: alexhansSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I think the word "smart" is more important. Mislynching is smart only for scum. Of the interpretations of "smart mislynch" that are coming to mind, none usually end up being very good for the town.alexhans wrote:Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way.
Uhh... The only game so far we've both played, you replaced me as scum. I don't know what bearing the tunnel vision question has here.alexhans wrote:Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm starting to see where you're getting at, but we don't know whether Firestarter is scum or simply town acting scummy. That's the problem I see with your statement.alexhans wrote:Yes. It is smart for scum to accomplish a mislynch... So? (I mean, as you will se when I order my notes and post, that there is probably scum in that waggon)
I'd rather Firestarter defend himself, but if you believe the cases on him to be crap, say so and explain why.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Pretty much.alexhans wrote:
So this is all you had to say about Isaac's hasty post?StrangerCoug wrote:
Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.Isacc wrote:Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.
What you quote from Firestarter is all he said in that post. He didn't make any references to whom, and I didn't make the connection that it was a comment about the previous poster.alexhans wrote:
Isaac had posted right before that. While I don't agree with Fire's quick association I don't see why would you have missed this.StrangerCoug wrote:
And you're not saying who it is straight up because?Firestarter wrote:We just found millar13's scumbuddy...
Uh, hello? Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was. Don't you dare generalize my cases!alexhans wrote:
WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?StrangerCoug wrote:
I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.millar13 wrote:Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game
I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to anFirestarter wrote:Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.HoS: Firestarter.
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...
FoS:StrangerCoug
OK, first off, your implication that scum would not bus on Day 1 is WIFOM. I've done it as scum myself, although doing so in that particular game was very dangerous and a contributing factor to my loss.alexhans wrote:
Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that? This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.SC wrote:From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other
Also, accusing two people of trying to bus each other ≠ lining up lynches.
I thought it was clear that I had two suspects for most of this game. While millar13 has cleaned himself up, I do not see a good reason to give him aalexhans wrote:
So here you're excusing that you will vote the most likely to get lynched...SC wrote:Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weighttabula rasa. Firestarter was going up on my scumdar, and I switched when my suspicions of both were pretty close to par with each other.
millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy. Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.) In addition, he's also dodged my question about his opinion about a connection between Isacc and me by asking if I have anything to say about his case other than worry about myself (yeah, right—if you don't understand something, then asking about it is one of the most pro-town things you can do), and most recently he's been giving confusing signals as to whether or not he really wants to stay in this game.alexhans wrote:
This attacking without examples... Why you think he responded bad under pressure? I think his defense post was pretty decent.SC wrote:Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure latelySTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?[/color]STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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EBWOP:
Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?
Done. Also, looking for a replacment for Ghost Writer now in addition to Rage.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Both have made cases against each other and both are scummy.alexhans wrote:OK. But what did you the impression of bussing?
I had to find seven replacements for Mini 716, all on Day 1. (What's ironic is that the game lasted a month, which is short by MS standards.)alexhans wrote:
wha-a-a-a-t? 3 people must be replaced? (and there is already 2 replacements...)Gorrad wrote:Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic
That sucks.
That's a very good case against alexhans theremillar13 wrote:The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member.
It is impossible to bus as town, for starters.alexhans wrote:I don't understand how do you reach the conclusion that if millar is scummy he could be bussing.
"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.alexhans wrote:Maybe he is scum and he is buddying,
Telling Firestarter what exactly to talk about is not my job. If he's smart, he'll come up with something worth discussing on his own.alexhans wrote:
If you thought he should talk about something else... Why not tell him what?StrangerCoug wrote:I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.
I've BEEN asking questions.alexhans wrote:Why not asking questions?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.alexhans wrote:
Why I don't find him agreeing with millar surprising if it involves making his only attacker scummy? 1) he befriends millar 2) he attacks me 3) he doesn't state reasons.SC wrote:That's a very good case against alexhans there
I am not here to explain the same thing 10,000 times. I have already talked why I believe both of them to be scum, and anybody paying attention to this game knows that the two have been presenting cases against and are voting each other. Some of the cases the one has made against the other are actually decent.alexhans wrote:
I meant that any of them can be S/s, t/t or s/t... I don't see how would you think one is more likely than the otherSC wrote:"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.
at the beginning at millar. yes.alexhans wrote:I've BEEN asking questions.
Then only to Fire until he was sure of being lynched.[/quote]
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition? I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.
If that's the way we're going, then why aren't you chewing millar13's head off for calling you out for blowing cases out of proportion?alexhans wrote:When I replaced. You fosed me.
When I said I was wary of you. Then you started asking ME questions and trying to make me look scummy.
I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.alexhans wrote:@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?
Nice misrep. I said I was confused about whether he wanted to or not, not that he necessarily didn't want to. His not caring about getting lynched sends a signal that he doesn't want to continue; that he's still pushing anybody sends a signal that he does want to continue. Which is it? All I'm getting from him anymore is that he's trying to sow the seeds of discord.alexhans wrote:
Dismissing him as not wanting to play? I'm having very bad vibes about you Coug (SC)...You shouldn't have to nullify him if he attacks you. You should refute his logic.SC wrote:Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Obviously.alexhans wrote:@SC:
Right, but you said "That's aThe standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.very good caseagainst alexhans there". You think it's a case?
It very well could be, but again, you shouldn't be blowing things out of proportion.alexhans wrote:Isn't it just a point where I was wrong?
Yes.alexhans wrote:Do you think a very good case merits a lynch?
It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you. Firestarter's case pretty much built up until it got to a point of no return.alexhans wrote:You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?
I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.alexhans wrote:2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?
I do realize the risk of telling someone potentially town to self-hammer, but he's useless at this point and I've already settled my mind about him.alexhans wrote:3) He does want to play. He's been posting a lot. He just had everyone (NOT really everyone, A great number of people) voting against him and dismissing his answers. I think it can be pretty demoralizing. You suggest a town player to self-hammer? That is anti-town! Only scum self-hammer when they don't want to disclose any more information.... Plus there will be one less person in his lynch waggon that has to explain their motives.
millar13 can handle himself.alexhans wrote:4) Let me handle millar. He at least seems, although some times wrong, to have good intentions.
You sow the seeds of discord by creating internal conflict within your enemy. He's basically said "go after these people when I'm dead and buried". If he's scum and the people he says to attack end up flipping town, then he will be guilty of lining up lynches, something I've accused him of once before.alexhans wrote:Sow the seeds of discord? What do you mean by that?
Not a lot.alexhans wrote:Does it preocupie you he signaled you as a possible millar scumbuddy? (I don't think this, mind you)
This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you constantly saying one thing when the reality is another is really getting on my nerves here.alexhans wrote:Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?
Unvoteand demote toMajor FoS: Firestarter(he deserves a chance if he really does want to keep playing)
Vote: alexhans
The Mafia won prisoner's dilemma.alexhans wrote:oh... SC... the game you mentioned with so many replacements... how did it go?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Very well then.alexhans wrote:
*sigh* I mean I can handle MY communication with millar. I don't control him.SC wrote:millar13 can handle himself.
We'd better not.alexhans wrote:
He can do it but we won't follow just because he said so.SC wrote:You sow the seeds of discord by creating internal conflict within your enemy. He's basically said "go after these people when I'm dead and buried". If he's scum and the people he says to attack end up flipping town, then he will be guilty of lining up lynches, something I've accused him of once before.
You shouldn't be using WIFOM to prove your innocence anyway, but that's because WIFOM is an effed up mind game. WIFOM, therefore, should rarely be used by the town as any form of strategy let alone a defense. (I was about ready to say never, but then doc protections came to mind.)alexhans wrote:
Yeah... WIFOM... I don't say it should prove my innocence... I'm telling everyone to think about it. But you seem trying to attack me for little things.SC wrote:This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with you constantly saying one thing when the reality is another is really getting on my nerves here.
There actually was a rush to lynch Day 1 in that game—from L-3 to swinging in the noose in less than 24 hours. If you care to look, it's here.alexhans wrote:
Then I'm right. Rushing to lynch and too many replacements can crap a game all over.SC wrote:The Mafia won prisoner's dilemma.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Am I forbidden to have more than one suspect? Is my vote set in stone? Unless the answer to both of these questions is "yes", then I fail to understand what's wrong with what I'm doing.Firestarter wrote:Strangercoug...
Your vote on me kinda confirms your thoughts SC.StrangerCoug wrote:I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.
From the exchange with M13 & I, you've flipped onto whichever was doing worst, while keeping your "options to lynch the other" open by keeping your eyes on M13.
One of us is apparently blind, because my case on him is not defending you and I can't find where he's doing so.Firestarter wrote:I dont see why your watching Alexhans at this stage, is it because he's been defending me?
I did already!Firestarter wrote:At least post the suspicion you talk of.
You were making a sufficiently big case by my judgment call to be voting millar13, yet you weren't.Firestarter wrote:
What do you mean my mouth wasn't where my money was SC?StrangerCoug wrote:
Uh, hello?Alexhans wrote:
WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?StrangerCoug wrote:
I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to anFirestarter wrote:Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.HoS: Firestarter.
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...
FoS:StrangerCougFirestarter's mouth was not where his money was. Don't you dare generalize my cases!
I didn't make a pathetic attempt at threatening M13 or anything like that.
What did you mean?
Huh????StrangerCoug wrote: millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy.Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.)
I askedYOUabout this. I did not state one way or the other what my thoughts would be on what you were thinking of SC. You still have not given your answer to this BTW.
This is my 159... Its pretty clear you've misinterpretd what I said...
[/quote]Firestarter wrote:@ Strangercoug
When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?StrangerCoug wrote:Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.
I will explain my thought processes about this one last time in plain, unadorned English:- I thought millar13 was acting scummy.
- I thought you were acting scummy.
- millar13 posts what I believe to be a decent case against you.
- You post what I believe to be a decent case against millar13.
- I do not know there to be more than one scum group, and neither does anybody else aligned with the town.
- Therefore, I think you are bussing each other.
RE: the bolded part... LOL, just LOL. Try being me about 10 pages ago...StrangerCoug wrote:I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition?
I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.
Its hardly the Spanish inquisition now, is it?
You think Im scum because Im resigned to being lynched?
You stopped asking questions because it looked very clearly that I would be lynched before the replacements came into the game. And Yes, I want to remain in the game. I may have been resigned to being lynched, but at no point did I ever want to leave the game. You can now drop that line of thinking.[/quote]
Thank you for saying this.
Post #163.Firestarter wrote:
I may have missed this, but where did you deny this exactly?StrangerCoug wrote:
I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.alexhans wrote:@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?
I don't recall anyone else saying they'd suspect millar13 after you flip scum either.Firestarter wrote:
Isn't the following quote by M13 more or less the same?StrangerCoug wrote:
It's subjective, really. I think millar13's remark is pretty damning toward you.alexhans wrote:You called millar's case on Fire a good case but this is a "Very good case"?
To my knowledge only you, SC said this. Which makes M13 as wrong as alexhans.millar13 wrote:However, if Firestarter is lynchedpeopleare saying that I flip scum.
Its not a case, its a poor attempt at reflecting questions.
Firestarter wrote:
What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.StrangerCoug wrote:
This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with youalexhans wrote:Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?constantly saying one thing when the reality is anotheris really getting on my nerves here.
OK, so what is the problem with it?Firestarter wrote:
WIFOM, Im almost sure about (I would need to clarify this), has possibly been mentioned the most by you, SC.StrangerCoug wrote:You shouldn't be using WIFOM to prove your innocence anyway, but that's because WIFOM is an effed up mind game.WIFOM, therefore, should rarely be used by the town as any form of strategy let alone a defense.(I was about ready to say never, but then doc protections came to mind.
I wasn't talking to you.Firestarter wrote:
You've stated numerous times that M13 was "as" scummy as me...StrangerCoug wrote:
I'm actually starting to suspect you more than millar13, but I can still get behind lynching him at this point.alexhans wrote:2) So would you be ok with a millar lynch right now instead of Fire?
Firestarter wrote:You then go on to ask why I linked you to Isaac, which in truth, I did not do.
You are contradicting yourself. I understand where you're getting the connection between millar13 and me, and I can also see how you're connecting millar13 with Isacc. The second quote, however, implies that the connection is a triangle, not a V.Firestarter wrote:There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.
See above. YouFirestarter wrote:You follow this up by asking me about the "connection" between you & isaac, again showing too much defensiveness for my liking.STILLhaven't given me an answer to this.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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EBWOP:
I will explain my thought processes about this one last time in plain, unadorned English:Firestarter wrote:
Huh????StrangerCoug wrote: millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy.Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.)
I askedYOUabout this. I did not state one way or the other what my thoughts would be on what you were thinking of SC. You still have not given your answer to this BTW.
This is my 159... Its pretty clear you've misinterpretd what I said...Firestarter wrote:@ Strangercoug
When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?StrangerCoug wrote:Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.- I thought millar13 was acting scummy.
- I thought you were acting scummy.
- millar13 posts what I believe to be a decent case against you.
- You post what I believe to be a decent case against millar13.
- I do not know there to be more than one scum group, and neither does anybody else aligned with the town.
- Therefore, I think you are bussing each other.
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I had nothing new to contribute to what millar13 said.Firestarter wrote:StrangerCoug wrote:
What would you like me to elaborate on?Firestarter wrote: When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?
You state this about M13's case on me.StrangerCoug wrote:
This is an awfully weak attack, and I'm hearing WIFOM bells go off. The case itself is good, though.millar13 wrote:Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.
You then state in 235 that my case was good against M13's. But again, you keep the eye on both of us with your "bussing theory."
But you do not slate any of my case like you did M13's.
Why vote for me then, when the logical thing, that I can see, is vote for M13?
OK, so I'm guilty of one of the things I accused alexhans of with the word "very".StrangerCoug wrote:I dont think there's anything in either of them of note, but if you are going to pick up on one, you must pick up on the other.
I'll start by saying everybody ≠ two people out of twelve, as has been said before. He also said (#347) that I thought you didn't want to play when I was really confused which way you were going about the matter (you have since cleared that up). I'm basically accusing him of misrepresentation.StrangerCoug wrote:
You haven't answered this.Firestarter wrote:
What reality??? . Please explain the bolded.StrangerCoug wrote:
This is the second time you've committed WIFOM, and that along with youalexhans wrote:Why would I put all this effort and try to defend things that Fire said and boost discussion against a lynch if I was scum?constantly saying one thing when the reality is anotheris really getting on my nerves here.
I think you've adequately explained yourself, soun-FoS: Firestarter, meaning I'm dropping the bussing theory.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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FoS: Sajin. Don't dodge questions like that.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Uhh... OMGUS? I'm sorry, but Battousai and alexhans had a legitimate concern. I don't like your dismissing a question by asking someone else another question.Sajin wrote:Don't OMGUS me and then I may respond to you. Still typing response to batt.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Where did I say that absolutely nobody suspected millar13?Sajin wrote:The quote your saying no one suspected millar depending on firestarters flip. As I recall it was you who theorized them as scumbuddys.
"I think something's up with the interactions among player X, player Y, and player Z" means "I think something's up not only with the interactions of player X with players Y and Z, but also of player Y with players X and Z and player Z with players X and Y". Firestarter said "I think something's up with the interactions among player X, player Y, and player Z" and proceeded to support only "I think something's up with the interactions of player X with players Y and Z" with his later statements.Sajin wrote:Also when you pointed out the supposed contradiction: There was no contradiction.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That is the way I read his statement, hence why I called him out on it. He has since explained it as a communication error and clarified his statement.Sajin wrote:Um, that has nothing to do with the statement.
He never stated that X Y and Z were conglomerated.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Calling you out on a legitimate suspicion is not being squirmy, so stop using me as a scapegoat to get pressure off you.Sajin wrote:And his squirmyness as I turned my eye has made me more suspicious.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Mod: What's the vote count?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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This is crap. I know Firestarter's case on me to be serious, but your case on me is a joke and can be summed up as you telling me "Yeah, whatever, scaredy cat." If you're going to vote me, at least present me with something worth defending like Firestarter did. Don't be skimping on scumhunting to see what you can get away with.Sajin wrote:
he had 2 votes I had a fos. The person under pressure he refered to was likely himself, freudian slip.Battousai wrote:How?
Unvote: alexhans
Vote: SajinSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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And I refuted it. Anyone who can read knows who is being referred to as under pressure in that post:Sajin wrote:I think I caught a slip,
Kairyuu says he also caught a slip, but it's backed by something he did as scum in another game. Yeah, there's not a lot going with his vote, but what's there is sound and I'll start defending what he spat out at me:StrangerCoug wrote:Calling you out on a legitimate suspicion is not being squirmy, so stop using me as a scapegoat toget pressure off you.
The only thing keeping me from thinking millar13 and Firestarter were independently scummy was their attacking each other. I have explained why I thought millar13 and Firestarter were scum other than that. You quoted my refuting that Firestarter being town clears millar13—I don't accuse people of bussing unless I have something solid for both players in question to back it up.Kairyuu wrote:Strangercoug is scum.
That is the exact type of scumslip that no one caught me on way back when in Facedown and Thirsty.If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.
Could you cite some examples and explain them?Plus there's the whole issue with being so eager to please, especially regarding Isacc.
Now back to Sajin:
I can defend myself, thank you very much. You don't need to have others help me, and it's counterintuitive to do so if you suspect me.Sajin wrote:I don't think you have provided a viable defense for him.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Sorry for the double post, but I missed this.
Korlash wrote:If you are town you need to be lynched now.Major HoS: Korlash. Enough said.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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You've gone back to posting fluff. This is not something you want to do if you want to stay alive.Firestarter wrote:
Um, lets see.. its bolded in my last post, and has something to do with being outspoken...Battousai wrote:
?Doing what?Firestarter wrote:And you aren't doing it because...?
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The time you posted the last sentence of #435, which I have down as being at 12:40 PM MDT exactly.Firestarter wrote:
Oh really?StrangerCoug wrote:You've gone back to posting fluff. This is not something you want to do if you want to stay alive.
And when was the last time I posted fluff?
I'll answer this question when you tell me not only how many of my last ten posts in this thread besides this one are fluff, but also which ones.Firestarter wrote:And why are you doing nothing else but posting fluff?
FoS: FirestarterSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Mod: V/LA this weekend.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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*brain explodes*Battousai wrote:Firestarter admits that if he is left alive today, he will be lynched later. That, with claiming vanilla townie, means that he forsees his mislynch in the future. Now when Korlash wants him lynched because if Fire is town, him being around would result in being mislynched at an inappropriate time (end game), Fire uses it in his case against him.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'm failing to understand what Battousai is talking about.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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