Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Isacc]

Cooooonfiiiiiirm! =D

[Isacc]

Vote: GhostWriter

because Riku is too badass for you.

[Isacc]

Alright, sorry for not starting sooner. Been too busy. Easter, birthday, etc.

Let's get this going. Gonna try out a new playstyle here, so be prepared lol =P

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Firestarter is scum. Typo's are not scumtells, nor is bad wording.

You unvoted not because people weren't posting, but because you were unsure as to whether or not you were on a popular enough wagon.

Your attitude is anti-town.


Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Millar seems town to me. Going off attitude here, not actions (often more telling, as actions can be gambits or foolishness, but attitude usually remains constant).

Korlash seems town to me.

Anywho.

Vote: Firestarter

[Isacc]

Here is my problem with Firestarter's arguments, which his most recent post exemplifies quite nicely.

He is jumping opportunistically on everything that could minorly be considered a scumtell without actually analyzing the reality of the situation.

Take his most recent accusation for example (the post directly above mine).

How likely would it be that as a scumbuddy, I would jump out and openly defend my partner? Yes, it may seem like a scumbuddy would

want

to defend a scum partner, however this is one of the oldest tells in the book and any scum would have to be mildly retarded in order to actually just jump out and defend a buddy.

Firestarter, your posts seek to generalize only the most obvious (and therefore unlikely) scumtells.


Also, note that he did not refute or acknowledge any of my arguments, merely just lumped me together with Millar.

[Isacc]

Rather than responding to people individually, I will respond in general points to the various questions directed at me.

Ok I lied. I will respond to a few specific Korlash questions first:

Bad wording can be scum tells. Real typos aren't but I suppose some scum could use that excuse to cover up slips. I find it really weird you would put this immediately after "Fire starter is scum"... How is this hard evidence he is scum?

Did I say it was hard evidence? Did I say that was the driving point of my case? No. Firestarter's scumminess does not hinge on his "wrong word" argument.

How the hell do you know why firestarter did something?

Korlash, Mafia is a game where we analyze the reasons that people are doing their actions in order to deduce who is scum and who isn't. The entire game is about arguing

why

people do things. I don't know why Firestarter unvoted any more than you know why I didn't post an excessive amount of details in my accusaation.

However, in the same way that you are suggesting that my actions are with malignant intent, I am of the belief that Firestarter's unvote had nothing to do with letting more people post.

And finally, how is his attitude anti-town in you opinion?

This is a pretty easy one. Firestarter's attitude is anti-town because he is taking targets and trying to make them seem scummy rather than objectively analyzing.

Notice his hardcore push on Millar all game. Consistently making new accusations when old ones failed to stick. Rather than attempting to hunt for the scum, he has instead attempted to prove that Millar must be scum, even if that means reaching for new evidence. This suggests that he personally wants Millar lynched, rather than wanting scum lynched. Thus, attitude is anti-town.

The same can be said about you. You took firestarter's actions and instead of analysing them made up what you thought might be the truth and tried to pass them off as factual. You called his attitude anti-town but did not show why. And you called him flat out scum with some stupid little tid bit following it that i can't honestly see proving anything, much less justifying a claim of that sort.

First off, let's not drift so quickly to ad hominem, yes? Calling my tid-bit "stupid," is unnecessary and irrelevant. Tid-bits have feelings too, and mine prefers the term "special."

Second, you should see that my actions are vastly different than the ones you are referring to, especially if you have just read the earlier portion of this post. The part you quoted here referred to exactly what I just explained Firestarter was doing.



Anyways, continuing...

Isaac seems to think Im voting millar13 because he made a "typo"..... No, its more than that. He should read whats been written so far.
He seems to think I unvoted millar13 because it "wasn't popular"... No, I agreed with Sajin that I'd wait until others posted. The funny thing is that millar13 is MORE guilty of this, because of his unwillingness to vote me, and then doing it ONLY after others had done so.
Isaac also thinks millar is town due to "attitude"... Thats a new one to me, I must admit.
I accuse players of being scum based on their actions in the actual game we're playing in.. Am I missing something?
Isaac thinks my "attitude" is anti-town.. but does not state why??? So.. Why??

This is not a defense. This does nothing to counter any of my arguments.

Also, the whole "Millar didn't vote too!" is a classic attempt to bring others down with you. For one thing, not voting at all is completely different than voting and unvoting again. They suggest two very different things.



Also, who wants to be the third scumbuddy with me and Millar? Any takers? All you have to do is accuse Firestarter (or not find Millar obvscum) and you get a gold-star automatic scum label!

[Isacc]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

You see more unreasoned accusations?

Funny, because here I see more OMGUS.

[Isacc]

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

[Isacc]

Just goes to show how much your reading the game Isaac....
Did you by any chance read post 131??

I guess you didn't, I imagine you may have missed some other posts too...
Go back and read..

This is beyond funny. Did I read post 131?

Yes. Maybe you would know this if

you

had read post 138 in which

I quoted post 131 and responded to it!

Now, who was the one not reading?

Funny, there was a question in my post previous to this, it wasn't answered... But Im getting used to players NOT wanting to share any info they have/concoct.

Funny, cause I'm pretty sure I answered your questions in post 138. Maybe you need to do some rereading.

[Isacc]

FIRESTARTER.

HELLOOOOOOO.

CAN YOU HEAR ME?

HELLLOOOOOOOOOOO.

Just thought I'd use allcaps for emphasis, since it's

clear

you are IGNORING ME.

Check this out.

Post 159 Firestarter accuses me of not reading the thread (even though I had already directly responded to him about it).

Post 161, I respond directly to Firestarter disproving his entire accusation.

Post 170, Firestarter makes a GIANT WALL-O-TEXT and yet, what has he made NO mention of? MY RESPONSES TO HIS POST.

Seriously, if you are so sure I am scum, then why are you ignoring me? At this point, if I made a major scum tell, it doesn't seem like you'd even point it out. How can you call yourself protown?

[Isacc]

Gotta love the reactions from the 3 of you...
Instead of analysing the case, you come on here and try and verbally beat me up...
Best of luck with that

Anyways, Isaac, if Im around later on, Ill look into you with better detail.
As should any other townies, after reading my post, if I do indeed end up lynched.

At the moment, Im L-2, and Ive got my thoughts on M13 outta the way.
Its there in B&W.

BTW M13, town never self-votes...
But then again, you already knew that

Ok, you're done.

Reactions? This is the logical reaction of any player being ignored.

Instead of analyzing the case? I'm not interested in your case on Millar, as I am not Millar and I am perfectly capable of analyzing him myself. I am interested in you responding to

my

case on

you

which you consistently ignore,

even now!

You are my number 1 suspect, and at almost L-1. Any case you make attacking another person filters through the "scum trying to shift his lynch" alarm at this point. Your case on Millar may be useful later, if you flip town, however right now there is no logical reason for me to analyze your wall-o-text Millar cases.

Next, "look into me with better detail"? Maybe you should actually

read my most recent posts

rather than wasting the time of doing an analysis on me. The funny thing is, your whole "I'll look into Isacc" is just a nice way to hide the fact that

you are still ignoring me!

Frankly, you aren't in any position to be making attacks, we all know you are suspicious of the people making strong attacks on you. Right now, you should be focused on answering my questions and/or defending yourself.


Newsflash Firestarter: Effective ways of proving your innocence include defending yourself, working with your attackers and responding to their questions, and overall acting pro-town.

Things not in that list: making big cases on people who are suspicious of you, ignoring the interrogations of other players, continualy saying "be suspicious of those guys!"

So take my advice and

stop ignoring me!

[Isacc]

Im happy to answer any and all queries you have.

Unless, of course, "you" means Isacc.

[Isacc]

Firestarter: I'm fairly certain Millar responded to all those questions in post 162. Didja read that one? Or did you skip that one too?

[Isacc]

Last line of 110.
Post 138.
Post 161.

You have ignored every one of these posts by me.
You have not actually defended yourself against my case.
Any other things you haven't done, I mentioned in the posts listed above.

Ive stated I didn't skip any...

You've STATED!? OMG. Guys he

stated

it, so it MUST be the truth. Throw away all evidence to the contrary boys, because Firestarter

claims

he hasn't ignored any posts.

But you refuse to read my case on M13???

Only coz it suits ya not too!

I didn't "refuse to read your case on M13." I just don't need to spend a wall of text analyzing it in game, for logical reasons I already presented. Did you read those ones?

I did not continually say "be suspicious of those guys!"

Oh really?
"As should any other townies, after reading my post, if I do indeed end up lynched." (referencing looking into me) post 180
"There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC...But right now Millar13 needs to be lynched." post 170
"Honestly, town, you gotta be blind..
Not only are you sitting in the sidelines doing nothing, but your watching others make accusations that they have hardly followed up on." post 159

[Isacc]

Firestarter, you need to work on reading comprehension.

Reread post 138 AGAIN. The end of it SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSES A POST BY YOU.

161 by me PROVED that point and COUNTERED the only real accusation you've made on me. Which you never responded to.

Firestarter- "Logical reasons?? Why would you NOT read a case built on another player?
BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of."

Reading comprehension. You need to slow down and read everything correctly before posting. He didn't say he didn't read the case, but rather wouldn't analyze it the way you presented it (aka wall of text).

QFT!!!
***Am I correct in getting your name? =P

Ive referenced the post in my 180 already.
The 2nd one ive addressed.
Im making a statement to town in the 3rd one RE: My position nearing lynch.

You're entirely missing the point I was making...god what is the point of talking to you anyways? You don't even understand what anyone is saying.


Next, Firestarter on the "scumtell argument."

Millar said BATTOUSAI committed a scumtell. Not SC. This is BASIC reading difficulties here man.

Firestarter:

Time for a claim. You're at L-2, someone else said earlier they were considering putting you at L-1. Claim, because you are only digging yourself deeper by talking.

((Sorry for bold, but it seems to work well just to get attention to a person about a very specific thing, so I figured you'd let it pass...))

[Isacc]

Name claim works, to start.

[Isacc]

Part of a post by Isaac..

"Instead of analyzing the case? I'm not interested in your case on Millar, as I am not Millar and I am perfectly capable of analyzing him myself."

He did not read the case on M13.
I think its you who needs to slow down with the reading comprehension.

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I said, I am not going to post an entire analysis of your case on Millar. I do not need to debate an entire Millar case, mainly because I don't feel super suspicious of him yet.

[Isacc]

Well, here's what can be analyzed from the name.

Being the mother of the main guy, the name is probably attached to a town player.

However, being a show featuring

many

characters, it would not be hard for a scum to find a pro-town sounding name.

Also, seeing as she does not appear till episode 43, a part of me doubts the likelihood that the character would appear in this game.

All of this said: I am for a full role claim, before we get to any lynch.

[Isacc]

Does anyone else think it sounds like Firestarter is just trying to cover up a slip? This whole flavor explanation is getting pretty elaborate at this point.

[Isacc]

We need to lynch Firestarter...... he claimed vanilla.

QFT.

There are too many discrepancies in Firestarter's claim. It would be unwise not to lynch him.

Plus, he's right in that now there will be too much WIFOM surrounding him for him to even function if we don't lynch him now.

[Isacc]

What is the difference between spending 2 extra weeks on Day 1 or spending those 2 weeks in D2?

In fact, the way I see it, spending 2 extra weeks on Day 1 will lead to minimal amounts of scumhunting at best, because they can only be based on our guesses of your flip and the information from D1 so far.

If we lynch you now, and go to D2, we won't have wasted 2 weeks on WIFOM as we will have already seen your flip

and

the night actions.

I say it'd be a bad idea to wait 2 weeks. It's wasted time, and without any new information, we wouldn't really have anywhere new to go.


More importantly, I think this is a plan for you to save your skin. Don't try to save face with the "I'm happy to be lynched in two weeks." I know exactly why you're happy; because in two weeks time people won't feel so strongly about your lynch, we'll have been wading in muck and WIFOM and we'll be stuck at a deadline, unsure if we should be viewing you the same way.

You aren't asking for 2 weeks of scumhunting, you are asking for 2 weeks of you saving face and trying to avoid a lynch.

Confirm Vote: Firestarter

Let's finish this already. Waiting till deadline will do nothing more than bore the heck out of us.

[Isacc]

The more time Town has to gather info, and by that, the more info town has, the better..

IMO, scum will want this day to end as quick as possible with me on the chopping block, and move onto D2 with the info gathered already, which, lets face it, is more or less only on M13 & I.

Why not use the time left in this day to gather info?

Here is what you don't understand Firestarter.

By waiting, we aren't giving the town "more time" for anything. Time isn't going to be magically created by waiting to lynch you.

We will have the same amount of available time to play if we lynch you now as if we don't. Waiting does not somehow give us

more

time.

You say we should use the time to "gather info." Gather info on WHAT? We have no new information. We won't until the lynch occurs. All we can do is keep talking, which we can do at

any

time.


I repeat: the only outcome of waiting will be a decline in confidence in the lynch. It's a common trend; when lynches stagnate, people become less confident. We're only going to make more and more WIFOM and suddenly we'll be worse off later than we are now.

In addition, two weeks from now, if we lynch you, and you flip town, people can say "well see, I wasn't as confident anymore, I knew we shouldn't have lynched him!" Right now, we know exactly where everyone (lurkers not included) stands. We don't want to give the scum 2 weeks to position themselves for a better D2.

[Isacc]

Alright, fair enough LF. (One or two days of talking is a much better proposition).

I'll get to that soonish (major hw and work, as my easter break is just ending).

You really like playing games with me? I'm touched lol. I'm glad to see you here too, since I've never gotten to play a full game with you.

Though, I'm not as crazy (or terrible) as I used to be, thank god.

[Isacc]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

[Isacc]

I'm doing a full reread, in response to LF's request. I still think we should lynch though...

Once I finish my in-depth re-read of epic analyzationism, I will post again.

[Isacc]

I haven't had enough time to get to this game yet and do a full reread. Sorry. I am trying to get to it, but it'll have to wait still.

[Isacc]

Christ, I try to do a reread and then I have Wall-o-text wall-o-text wall-o-text to catch up on.

Can we slow down this weekend? Prom is tomorrow, and Idk when I'm even gonna be able to post again. I need a day or two of

V/LA

soooo yeah.

I'll catch up sunday or monday. Sorry guys.

[Isacc]

ZOMG Kairyuu O.o

[Isacc]

I have to defend Kairyuu here, as I have been out for the same period of time and for the same reasons (prom yay!), and you guys have posted such an utterly ridiculous Wall-o-text frenzy that it's nearly impossible to keep up. I am a pretty heavy poster at times and I even think it's getting out of hand with the super-massive overly-complicated posts.

That said, people need to start making their arguments consice and organized. Many of the wall posts are definitely NOT necessary or understandable.

And, I'm doing my best to catch back up, but you guys will have to wait a tad on me too, as it is the last week of school.

[Isacc]

Alright, I started to try to catch up, and this is terrible.

So, in line with my last post, I have this demand.

I refuse to read the crappy convoluted posts that have flooded this thread for the past three-four pages. There is no way I can get a legitimate read on anyone among the chaos and craplogic of the wallotext frenzy.

I demand that before any other major arguments, each person makes a simple and concise case against the person they are in favor of lynching, without worrying about responding to other arguments right now. The better organized you make your case-post, the better I (and the rest of the town) will be able to find actual scumtells.

For me, I am going to

Unvote

for now, and I will reassess my vote once I can actually get a read on people.

[Isacc]

You guys will have to forgive me and trust me on this:

Huge fight with my parents. HUGE. Won't have time to post before deadline.

My thoughts have changed a bit (sorta), but I can't really make a good analysis.

Firestarter is the only reasonable lynch by deadline however.

Vote: Firestarter